Ted Kennedy

[Mark Stapleton]

I think Ted Kennedy is quite brave to continue for as long as he has.

Chappaquidik ended his chance of becoming President, so he could have retreated to an easy life with his millions. He's always seemed like a voice of reason to me.

[Sid Walker]

It seems to me that if you really have 'given up' on trying to effect any significant and worthwhile change in your society, it ill-behoves you to brandish labels such as "pathetici human being" against someone who is still having a go.

Still having a go at what?

The move to counter Bush's Iraq surge was the example I gave earlier.

Not bad for a 'pathetic human being'.

There's more at Ted Kennedy's rather impressive website

Not that's enough from me in defence of Ted Kennedy, or I'll be accused of being on his payroll.

[Ron Ecker]

I've never had a brother murdered, much less two, so I can't say positively that I would do all I could to find out who did it and bring them to justice. It just seems like the human thing to do. If I could not do so without forfeiting my own life, then I would get away as far as I could from a system that allows such injustice and unaccountability - I sure as hell wouldn't be a part of it - to look for a place where one might still find "some charm and grace" (to quote Rhett Butler when walking out on Scarlett).

[Peter McGuire]

I've never had a brother murdered, much less two, so I can't say positively that I would do all I could to find out who did it and bring them to justice. It just seems like the human thing to do. If I could not do so without forfeiting my own life, then I would get away as far as I could from a system that allows such injustice and unaccountability - I sure as hell wouldn't be a part of it - to look for a place where one might still find "some charm and grace" (to quote Rhett Butler when walking out on Scarlett).

This is what I am saying.

[Sid Walker]

I've never had a brother murdered, much less two, so I can't say positively that I would do all I could to find out who did it and bring them to justice. It just seems like the human thing to do. If I could not do so without forfeiting my own life, then I would get away as far as I could from a system that allows such injustice and unaccountability - I sure as hell wouldn't be a part of it - to look for a place where one might still find "some charm and grace" (to quote Rhett Butler when walking out on Scarlett).

Are you thinking of Iran, Ron? Venezuela? Cuba, perhaps?

Do you favour Peter's private island fortress solution?

Or should he go to the moon?

Please note: I don't object to criticizing Ted Kennedy and I am not his apologist.

But branding him a "pathetic human being" seems way over the top.

Edited January 13, 2007 by Sid Walker

[Ron Ecker]

The move to counter Bush's Iraq surge was the example I gave earlier.

What could be more futile?

When you see a train wreck about to happen, go jump on the track and try to stop it. Me, I'm not quick or naive enough anymore, so I'll watch.

[Kathleen Collins]

Ted Kennedy is one of the Members of Congress who is in the CIA in violation of Article I, section 6, of the United States Constitution, which states: “No Person holding any Office under the United States shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office.”

Ted is also a cocaine addict. I saw him in possession of cocaine in 1984. His KGB handlers killed both of his brothers.

After the KGB infiltration of the CIA was exposed in 1984, Ted and the rest of the corrupt hierarchy in the government and the CIA were determined to make sure that none of the corruption would be exposed.

But as I exposed the KGB infiltration, and I was at the closed-door Congressional hearings that proved the KGB officers in the CIA had killed Kennedy, I will be the undoing of the corruption and I will have Ted tossed out of Congress.

Could you tell me who you are and where or how you learned these things: 1) Ted Kennedy is a member of the CIA? 2) Ted Kennedy had a coke habit? and 3) KGB CIA members killed his brothers?

1) If he was a member of the CIA, would he not have gotten wind of a plan to assassinate his brothers?

2) How are you so "in with the in crowd" that you 'saw' Ted Kennedy in possession of cocaine in 1984?

3) A question similar to #1. If Ted Kennedy was a loyal member of the CIA, how did he not get wind that John Kennedy Jr was about to be killed (tomflocco.com)? How could Ted or any man/woman not stand up to this organization after it killed so many members of his family? I think I would burst if I was in his position. Enough murders. I think I'd call a press conference and reveal all very unexpectedly. Maybe that would get rid of the bastards.

Kathy

[Sid Walker]

I've never had a brother murdered, much less two, so I can't say positively that I would do all I could to find out who did it and bring them to justice. It just seems like the human thing to do. If I could not do so without forfeiting my own life, then I would get away as far as I could from a system that allows such injustice and unaccountability - I sure as hell wouldn't be a part of it - to look for a place where one might still find "some charm and grace" (to quote Rhett Butler when walking out on Scarlett).

Are you thinking of Iran, Ron? Venezuela? Cuba, perhaps?

Do you favour Peter's private island fortress solution?

Or should he go to the moon?

Please note: I don't object to criticizing Ted Kennedy and I am not his apologist.

But branding him a "pathetic human being" seems way over the top.

I'd like to better understand your position, Ron.

Do you hold the view that any and all political activity is futile? Do you believe that everyone involved in politics, by definition, is a "pathetic human being"? Are there any exceptions?

Robert Kennedy Junior, for instance, while not a member of Congress, has worked as an environmental lawyer/activist. Last year, he joined the campaign against electronic 'no-receipt' voting, writing an infulential piece for Rolling Stone entitled "Was the 2004 Election Stolen?".

He has not, however, dedicated himself solely to discovering and exposing the murderers of his father and uncle.

Another "pathetic human being" in your eyes, Ron?

[Ron Ecker]

I'd like to better understand your position, Ron.

Do you hold the view that any and all political activity is futile? Do you believe that everyone involved in politics, by definition, is a "pathetic human being"? Are there any exceptions?

Of course not all political activity is futile. My reference is to the decline and fall of the American republic, and the degree to which the people have let it happen. The country I loved has been taken away from me, if it ever really existed. And there is no way to get it back, particularly if it never existed. Do I have to be a party to what it's become, because I was born here?

I'm basically an expatriate who can't leave. But there are plenty of Americans who have (I believe Peter Lemkin, for example, is an American who lives abroad, though I'm not familiar with his circumstances.), and I envy them all. I would feel so much cleaner living in some other country.

Edited January 14, 2007 by Ron Ecker

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Of course not all political activity is futile. My reference is to the decline of fall of the American republic, and the degree to which the people have let it happen. The country I loved has been taken away from me, if it ever really existed.

History is full of quaint lies - and reality is hardly ever a match for the ongoing, pretty narrative that is presented to the public. I'm a big fan of Gore Vidal's writing. In my view, he has a realist's attitude, tinged with a world-weariness and a bitchy mouth, which combines for a fascinating view on the US. The way he tells it, history is fiction carved right before our eyes with an artists' knife but we hardly ever react to it in real time, we wait to hear what It All Means. Only then do we know what we think about it.

Was the US better during WW2, the time of the "greatest generation?" Or did the rubes fall for The Sting? Were things more pure at the time of the Continental Congress? Or were white slave owners putting the fix in even then?

I honestly don't miss the nostalgic America. When I hear a politican talking about it now I can think of no more obvious "tell."

A guy like Ted Kennedy, with a closet full of half-clad skeletons, knows better than to rock any boats. He's just another master of reality manipulation. For crying out loud, he had his decades-old marriage to Joan *annulled* - as if it never existed - so he could marry his next wife in the Catholic Church.

[Kathleen Collins]

Of course not all political activity is futile. My reference is to the decline of fall of the American republic, and the degree to which the people have let it happen. The country I loved has been taken away from me, if it ever really existed.

A guy like Ted Kennedy, with a closet full of half-clad skeletons, knows better than to rock any boats. He's just another master of reality manipulation. For crying out loud, he had his decades-old marriage to Joan *annulled* - as if it never existed - so he could marry his next wife in the Catholic Church.

I didn't know he got his first marriage annuled. Unless you're confusing him with his nephew Joe III, who dropped out of the Governor's campaign because his brother Michael, now deceased, was fooling around with his underage babysitter. And because he got an annulment from his first wife. This just points out the corruption of the Catholic Church.

Kathy

[Myra Bronstein]

I'd like to better understand your position, Ron.

Do you hold the view that any and all political activity is futile? Do you believe that everyone involved in politics, by definition, is a "pathetic human being"? Are there any exceptions?

Of course not all political activity is futile. My reference is to the decline and fall of the American republic, and the degree to which the people have let it happen. The country I loved has been taken away from me, if it ever really existed. And there is no way to get it back, particularly if it never existed. Do I have to be a party to what it's become, because I was born here?

I'm basically an expatriate who can't leave. But there are plenty of Americans who have (I believe Peter Lemkin, for example, is an American who lives abroad, though I'm not familiar with his circumstances.), and I envy them all. I would feel so much cleaner living in some other country.

Well I find that anger and disgust and embarrassment very understandable Ron. Though I'm starting to think it would be hard to go anyplace where the American Empire can't control it. The sun never sets on it you know...

It's less understandable to direct that bitterness at the victim, and Ted Kennedy is certainly that. His two older brothers murdered, one attempt on his life (in an airplane crash that killed others and seriously injured Senator Kennedy) and--as Dawn noted--the "dire warning" of Chappaquidick. ("If Teddy knew the bear trap he was walking into at Chappaquiddick." --John Dean, 1973/http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAchp7.html.) And hell yes John Kennedy Junior was murdered.

His whole damn family slaughtered, his own life threatened, his career damaged by the Rulers, and the ongoing smears of him remind me of the post-assassination assassination--also ongoing--of President Kennedy through propaganda. All Kennedys must be discredited so that no one cares enough to learn some history and thereby understand the present. So he's a victim in that sense too. Yet he continues to "have a go."

I hope you know that there were only 21 Democratic Senators who had the courage and integrity to vote against the Iraq invasion in 2002. Senator Kennedy was one of them Ron. Another in that (too) elite group was the *late* Paul Wellstone. Senator Kennedy is most definitely showing courage, and routinely gives some of the most blistering and pointed speeches against the regime. He's having a helluva go. And he does not deserve to be called names by people who can't possibly comprehend what he's had to endure over the decades as his family is picked off one by one and he lives in the crosshairs.

So even if he wasn't a brave and principled Senator I'd, as Sid said, give him the benefit of the doubt.

Sid>"Without claiming his voting record - or anything else about him - is perfect, I think fair-minded observers might agree he's been one of the more effective legislators in Congress with a much better-than-average commitment to decent, progressive policies over a long period of time."

I agree Sid.

And thank you for posting the Senator's bold remarks after the JEL (Just Enough to Lose, per Time Magazine... ol' Luce must be spinning in his hell) surge was announced.

Ron>"I'm basically an expatriate who can't leave."

That's just beautifully put Ron. I'm sure many can relate. It's damn hard to stay upbeat nowadays. Still, there's work to be done...

[Sid Walker]

I'd like to better understand your position, Ron.

Do you hold the view that any and all political activity is futile? Do you believe that everyone involved in politics, by definition, is a "pathetic human being"? Are there any exceptions?

Of course not all political activity is futile. My reference is to the decline and fall of the American republic, and the degree to which the people have let it happen. The country I loved has been taken away from me, if it ever really existed. And there is no way to get it back, particularly if it never existed. Do I have to be a party to what it's become, because I was born here?

I'm basically an expatriate who can't leave. But there are plenty of Americans who have (I believe Peter Lemkin, for example, is an American who lives abroad, though I'm not familiar with his circumstances.), and I envy them all. I would feel so much cleaner living in some other country.

Well I find that anger and disgust and embarrassment very understandable Ron. Though I'm starting to think it would be hard to go anyplace where the American Empire can't control it. The sun never sets on it you know...

It's less understandable to direct that bitterness at the victim, and Ted Kennedy is certainly that. His two older brothers murdered, one attempt on his life (in an airplane crash that killed others and seriously injured Senator Kennedy) and--as Dawn noted--the "dire warning" of Chappaquidick. ("If Teddy knew the bear trap he was walking into at Chappaquiddick." --John Dean, 1973/http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAchp7.html.) And hell yes John Kennedy Junior was murdered.

His whole damn family slaughtered, his own life threatened, his career damaged by the Rulers, and the ongoing smears of him remind me of the post-assassination assassination--also ongoing--of President Kennedy through propaganda. All Kennedys must be discredited so that no one cares enough to learn some history and thereby understand the present. So he's a victim in that sense too. Yet he continues to "have a go."

I hope you know that there were only 21 Democratic Senators who had the courage and integrity to vote against the Iraq invasion in 2002. Senator Kennedy was one of them Ron. Another in that (too) elite group was the *late* Paul Wellstone. Senator Kennedy is most definitely showing courage, and routinely gives some of the most blistering and pointed speeches against the regime. He's having a helluva go. And he does not deserve to be called names by people who can't possibly comprehend what he's had to endure over the decades as his family is picked off one by one and he lives in the crosshairs.

So even if he wasn't a brave and principled Senator I'd, as Sid said, give him the benefit of the doubt.

Sid>"Without claiming his voting record - or anything else about him - is perfect, I think fair-minded observers might agree he's been one of the more effective legislators in Congress with a much better-than-average commitment to decent, progressive policies over a long period of time."

I agree Sid.

And thank you for posting the Senator's bold remarks after the JEL (Just Enough to Lose, per Time Magazine... ol' Luce must be spinning in his hell) surge was announced.

Ron>"I'm basically an expatriate who can't leave."

That's just beautifully put Ron. I'm sure many can relate. It's damn hard to stay upbeat nowadays. Still, there's work to be done...

Well said, Myra!

And yes, the gaze of the Evil Alliance is ubiquitous - there's no safe hideaway on the planet.

Here in Oz, the media is so monolithic and the sheeple so thoroughly tamed that we even elect crims like Howard in fair votes!

Get that? They don't even need to rort our voting system (just a little pruning here and there, especially in the Labor Party leadership, is all it takes to have duopoly consensus arounds such things as the sacredness of the 'American Alliance', the centrality of the War on Terror etc).

So cheer up. At least Americans are smart enough to necessitate systematic vote rigging.

[Myra Bronstein]

I'd like to better understand your position, Ron.

Do you hold the view that any and all political activity is futile? Do you believe that everyone involved in politics, by definition, is a "pathetic human being"? Are there any exceptions?

Of course not all political activity is futile. My reference is to the decline and fall of the American republic, and the degree to which the people have let it happen. The country I loved has been taken away from me, if it ever really existed. And there is no way to get it back, particularly if it never existed. Do I have to be a party to what it's become, because I was born here?

I'm basically an expatriate who can't leave. But there are plenty of Americans who have (I believe Peter Lemkin, for example, is an American who lives abroad, though I'm not familiar with his circumstances.), and I envy them all. I would feel so much cleaner living in some other country.

Well I find that anger and disgust and embarrassment very understandable Ron. Though I'm starting to think it would be hard to go anyplace where the American Empire can't control it. The sun never sets on it you know...

It's less understandable to direct that bitterness at the victim, and Ted Kennedy is certainly that. His two older brothers murdered, one attempt on his life (in an airplane crash that killed others and seriously injured Senator Kennedy) and--as Dawn noted--the "dire warning" of Chappaquidick. ("If Teddy knew the bear trap he was walking into at Chappaquiddick." --John Dean, 1973/http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAchp7.html.) And hell yes John Kennedy Junior was murdered.

His whole damn family slaughtered, his own life threatened, his career damaged by the Rulers, and the ongoing smears of him remind me of the post-assassination assassination--also ongoing--of President Kennedy through propaganda. All Kennedys must be discredited so that no one cares enough to learn some history and thereby understand the present. So he's a victim in that sense too. Yet he continues to "have a go."

I hope you know that there were only 21 Democratic Senators who had the courage and integrity to vote against the Iraq invasion in 2002. Senator Kennedy was one of them Ron. Another in that (too) elite group was the *late* Paul Wellstone. Senator Kennedy is most definitely showing courage, and routinely gives some of the most blistering and pointed speeches against the regime. He's having a helluva go. And he does not deserve to be called names by people who can't possibly comprehend what he's had to endure over the decades as his family is picked off one by one and he lives in the crosshairs.

So even if he wasn't a brave and principled Senator I'd, as Sid said, give him the benefit of the doubt.

Sid>"Without claiming his voting record - or anything else about him - is perfect, I think fair-minded observers might agree he's been one of the more effective legislators in Congress with a much better-than-average commitment to decent, progressive policies over a long period of time."

I agree Sid.

And thank you for posting the Senator's bold remarks after the JEL (Just Enough to Lose, per Time Magazine... ol' Luce must be spinning in his hell) surge was announced.

Ron>"I'm basically an expatriate who can't leave."

That's just beautifully put Ron. I'm sure many can relate. It's damn hard to stay upbeat nowadays. Still, there's work to be done...

Well said, Myra!

And yes, the gaze of the Evil Alliance is ubiquitous - there's no safe hideaway on the planet.

Here in Oz, the media is so monolithic and the sheeple so thoroughly tamed that we even elect crims like Howard in fair votes!

Get that? They don't even need to rort our voting system (just a little pruning here and there, especially in the Labor Party leadership, is all it takes to have duopoly consensus arounds such things as the sacredness of the 'American Alliance', the centrality of the War on Terror etc).

So cheer up. At least Americans are smart enough to necessitate systematic vote rigging.

That's the most twisted pep talk I've ever heard Sid.

But I appreciate it.

I thought I'd post an excerpt from a relevant news report about someone still having a go:

" Minimum Wage Front And Center In Senate

READ MORE: Ted Kennedy, John Sweeney, United States

Almost two weeks after a bill to raise the Federal Minimum Wage easily passed the House of Representatives, the legislation has arrived on the Senate floor, with debate started yesterday and a vote expected by the end of the week.

The measure to raise the minimum wage for the first time in a decade has been a long slog for Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) who brought the legislation to help the working poor before the previous, Republican-controlled Congress three times, only to see it shot down by the GOP on each occasion.

"After 10 long years without a raise, it's long past time to share the wealth with America's minimum wage workers," said Kennedy, in a speech last week. "I'm optimistic that my colleagues in the Senate will agree, and we can take prompt action next week to give working families the raise they deserve. No one who works for a living should have to live in poverty."

...

Said Kennedy in the Senate yesterday: "Americans understand the issues of fairness. They understand the importance of work. Americans have believed, for a long period of time, if you work hard and play by the rules, you should not have to live in poverty in the United States of America.""

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-geiger/m...ce_b_39357.html

"If you're not for raising the minimum wage, you don't deserve to call yourself a Democrat."

-- Ted Kennedy to John Kerry after Kerry raised doubts about raising the minimum wage

http://tinyurl.com/24ewm

[Terry Mauro]

I'd like to better understand your position, Ron.

Do you hold the view that any and all political activity is futile? Do you believe that everyone involved in politics, by definition, is a "pathetic human being"? Are there any exceptions?

Of course not all political activity is futile. My reference is to the decline and fall of the American republic, and the degree to which the people have let it happen. The country I loved has been taken away from me, if it ever really existed. And there is no way to get it back, particularly if it never existed. Do I have to be a party to what it's become, because I was born here?

I'm basically an expatriate who can't leave. But there are plenty of Americans who have (I believe Peter Lemkin, for example, is an American who lives abroad, though I'm not familiar with his circumstances.), and I envy them all. I would feel so much cleaner living in some other country.

Well I find that anger and disgust and embarrassment very understandable Ron. Though I'm starting to think it would be hard to go anyplace where the American Empire can't control it. The sun never sets on it you know...

It's less understandable to direct that bitterness at the victim, and Ted Kennedy is certainly that. His two older brothers murdered, one attempt on his life (in an airplane crash that killed others and seriously injured Senator Kennedy) and--as Dawn noted--the "dire warning" of Chappaquidick. ("If Teddy knew the bear trap he was walking into at Chappaquiddick." --John Dean, 1973/http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAchp7.html.) And hell yes John Kennedy Junior was murdered.

His whole damn family slaughtered, his own life threatened, his career damaged by the Rulers, and the ongoing smears of him remind me of the post-assassination assassination--also ongoing--of President Kennedy through propaganda. All Kennedys must be discredited so that no one cares enough to learn some history and thereby understand the present. So he's a victim in that sense too. Yet he continues to "have a go."

I hope you know that there were only 21 Democratic Senators who had the courage and integrity to vote against the Iraq invasion in 2002. Senator Kennedy was one of them Ron. Another in that (too) elite group was the *late* Paul Wellstone. Senator Kennedy is most definitely showing courage, and routinely gives some of the most blistering and pointed speeches against the regime. He's having a helluva go. And he does not deserve to be called names by people who can't possibly comprehend what he's had to endure over the decades as his family is picked off one by one and he lives in the crosshairs.

So even if he wasn't a brave and principled Senator I'd, as Sid said, give him the benefit of the doubt.

Sid>"Without claiming his voting record - or anything else about him - is perfect, I think fair-minded observers might agree he's been one of the more effective legislators in Congress with a much better-than-average commitment to decent, progressive policies over a long period of time."

I agree Sid.

And thank you for posting the Senator's bold remarks after the JEL (Just Enough to Lose, per Time Magazine... ol' Luce must be spinning in his hell) surge was announced.

Ron>"I'm basically an expatriate who can't leave."

That's just beautifully put Ron. I'm sure many can relate. It's damn hard to stay upbeat nowadays. Still, there's work to be done...

Well said, Myra!

And yes, the gaze of the Evil Alliance is ubiquitous - there's no safe hideaway on the planet.

Here in Oz, the media is so monolithic and the sheeple so thoroughly tamed that we even elect crims like Howard in fair votes!

Get that? They don't even need to rort our voting system (just a little pruning here and there, especially in the Labor Party leadership, is all it takes to have duopoly consensus arounds such things as the sacredness of the 'American Alliance', the centrality of the War on Terror etc).

So cheer up. At least Americans are smart enough to necessitate systematic vote rigging.

That's the most twisted pep talk I've ever heard Sid.

But I appreciate it.

I thought I'd post an excerpt from a relevant news report about someone still having a go:

" Minimum Wage Front And Center In Senate

READ MORE: Ted Kennedy, John Sweeney, United States

Almost two weeks after a bill to raise the Federal Minimum Wage easily passed the House of Representatives, the legislation has arrived on the Senate floor, with debate started yesterday and a vote expected by the end of the week.

The measure to raise the minimum wage for the first time in a decade has been a long slog for Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) who brought the legislation to help the working poor before the previous, Republican-controlled Congress three times, only to see it shot down by the GOP on each occasion.

"After 10 long years without a raise, it's long past time to share the wealth with America's minimum wage workers," said Kennedy, in a speech last week. "I'm optimistic that my colleagues in the Senate will agree, and we can take prompt action next week to give working families the raise they deserve. No one who works for a living should have to live in poverty."

...

Said Kennedy in the Senate yesterday: "Americans understand the issues of fairness. They understand the importance of work. Americans have believed, for a long period of time, if you work hard and play by the rules, you should not have to live in poverty in the United States of America.""

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-geiger/m...ce_b_39357.html

"If you're not for raising the minimum wage, you don't deserve to call yourself a Democrat."

-- Ted Kennedy to John Kerry after Kerry raised doubts about raising the minimum wage

http://tinyurl.com/24ewm

**********************************************************

I've got nothing to add to this already great post, but to say that I'm glad to see your name pop up again, Myra. I'm always elated to find your valuable input here on the forum.

And, if that's what some folks might consider to be an " 'attaboy" to you? I don't give a rat's ass. It's how I feel and what I meant it to be.

Ter