Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[Jack White]

Lee and Robert were almost as interchangeable as twins.

Jack

[Jack White]

According to the official record, Oswald was in Japan and the Philippines at the same time.

Jack

[Jack White]

At left is a photo of LHO in the Marines, believed to be in Japan.

At right is a photo of LHO found in one of LHO's wallets.

Jack

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

IS IT POSSIBLE ROBERT COULD HAVE BEEN A "SECOND OSWALD"?

DID YOU AND JOHN ATTEMPT TO TRACK ROBERT'S WHEREABOUTS

ON CRUCIAL DATES? THE PHOTO ABOVE ON THE LEFT DOES NOT

LOOK TO ME REMOTELY LIKE LEE OSWALD. I DOUBT THAT IT IS.

Lee and Robert were almost as interchangeable as twins.

Jack

Edited March 27, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH RESPONDS TO DON JEFFRIES:

DEAR DON -- YOUR QUESTION IS A GOOD ONE.

THE ONLY COMMENT APROPOS THAT LEE MADE SPECIFICALLY IS THAT HE LEFT HIS

S&W IN A LOCKER IN LAREDO. THIS IS BECAUSE WHEN HE CROSSED THE BORDER

AT NUEVO LAREDO, ON THE WAY TO MEXICO CITY, CARRYING THE BIOWEAPON, HE

DID NOT DARE CARRY HIS FIREARMS.

REMEMBER THAT MARINA WENT TO IRVING TX BELIEVING THAT SHE WOULD NEVER

SEE LEE AGAIN.

THEY WEPT BECAUSE OF THAT -- IT'S IN THE BOOK MARINA AND LEE.

LEE AND I WERE GOING TO ELOPE AFTER HE DELIVERED THE WEAPON.

INSTEAD, MY RIDE -- ALEX RORKE -- AND HIS PILOT DIED EN ROUTE, I BELIEVE, TO

FLORIDA, WHERE I LIVED...

LEE LEFT BOTH GUNS AND NICE CLOTHES HE HAD, ETC. IN A LOCKER AT NUEVO LAREDO.

I THINK HUGH WARD, BANISTER'S PARTNER WHO FLEW LEE OVER TO HULL FIELD/HOUSTON

AREA (WHILE THE BUS FROM NEW ORLEANS CARRIED NO LEE OSWALD AT ALL) GOT THE KEY

TO HOLD FOR HIM. WARD, BANISTER AND MARY SHERMAN ALL DIED ONE-TWO-THREE MAY-

JUNE-JULY 1964.

MARINA OF COURSE CARRIED NO REVOLVERS TO TEXAS AND NOBODY SEEMS TO HAVE

ASKED HOW LEE COULD HAVE GONE TO MEXICO CITY WITH GUNS IN HIS POSSESSION, TO

SAY NOTHING OF A RIFLE. THAT RIFLE WAS PLANTED. HE WOULD NEVER HAVE OWNED SUCH

A CRAPPY RIFLE ANYWAY. (SORRY, BUT IT MAKES ME MAD).

LEE'S FIREARMS WERE NOT IN DALLAS. THE HOLSTER WAS NOT HIS THAT THEY 'FOUND' IN

THE BOARDING HOUSE,. HE WOULD NOT HAVE BOTHERED OWNING THE SNUB-NOSE GUN,

A FAVORITE, BTW, FOR OFF-DUTY DALLAS POLICE TO CARRY...HMMM..THE GUN THAT RUBY

USED TO SHOOT LEE WAS PURCHASED FROM A DALLAS POLICE OFFICER...

FRANKLY, COMMON SENSE IS A HELP HERE.

WOULD YOU COME TO WORK THAT DAY WITH A REVOLVER IN YOUR POCKET IF YOU DID NOT

INTEND TO SHOOT JFK, WHICH WAS THE CASE?

WE CAN PREY FOR MUCH MORE PROOF THAT LEE WAS INNOCENT SINCE THE ZAPRUDER FILM

HAS BEEN SHOWN TO HAVE THE BACK OF KENNEDY'S HEAD PAINED IN BLACK. (MY FRIEND

SYDNEY, BTW, DESERVES PRAISE FOR BUYING THST EXPENSIVE ARCHIVE COPY). [NOTE:

This new development is discussed in Douglas Horne, INSIDE THE ARRB (2009), Volume IV.]

CARRYING A GUN WOULD MAKE HIM LOOK TWICE AS GUILTY.

IT WAS IN HIS BES INTEREST TO BE UNARMED.

HOPE THIS HELPS.

JVB

Thanks, Judith, for the detailed response.

One quick question; was LHO then planning to carry one of his guns to work with him on the

day of the assassination? Was this something he did on a regular basis? Thanks.

[Jack White]

JVB is in error when she claims that the snapshot of Marguerite Oswald in her kitchen

was a post-assassination photo.

The picture was found in LHO's possessions after the assassination, and according to

the letter which was with it, was sent to LHO while he was in Russia. I thought I remembered

that, but it took some searching to locate it.

Her neighbor Georgia Bell identified this as the Marguerite who lived in Benbrook across the

street from her. She did not recognize the taller Marguerite in photos.

Jack

Edited March 27, 2010 by Jack White

[Jack White]

These two Marguerites lived in Fort Worth at the SAME TIME while son

Lee Harvey Oswald ATTENDED SECOND GRADE AT TWO DIFFERENT

SCHOOLS. Their residences were about 15 miles apart. The tall one

at the time was married to Edwin Eckdahl. The short one was not

married at the time.

The two photos are approximately contemporaneous. The kitchen photo

is believed to be taken in the Benbrook house at about the time she

lived on San Saba and LHO was in the second grade. The other photo

shows Eckdahl, who was only married to Marguerite for two years, and

LHO was in the second grade during that period.

Eckdahl was described by John Pic as being OVER SIX FEET TALL, so

that can be used to judge the height of the taller Marguerite.

Jack

Edited March 27, 2010 by Jack White

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JIM DIRECTS SOME QUESTIONS TO JACK ABOUT ROBERT:

WHEN I ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PRINCIPLES OF SELECTION

THAT JOHN ARMSTRONG USED TO DETERMINE WHICH RECORDS

AND DOCUMENTS WERE GENUINE AND WHICH NOT, YOU OFFER

NO RESPONSE. THAT SUGGESTS HE VACUUMED ALL OF THEM UP.

I AM ALSO CONCERNED WITH THE PROVENANCE OF THE PHOTOS

OF THE SECOND MARGUERITE. MY FATHER'S SECOND WIFE WAS

ALSO NAMED "MARGUERITE". I COULD OFFER PHOTOGRAPHS OF

HER AND IDENTIFY HER AS A "SECOND MARGUERITE" AS WELL.

THE POINT I AM MAKING, JACK, IS THAT IT IS NOT DIFFICULT TO

FIND PHOTOS AND MAKE CLAIMS ABOUT THE IDENTITY OF THOSE

SHOWN. IF JOHN HAD NO PRINCIPLES FOR SORTING DOCUMENTS,

WHAT DID HE DO TO DETERMINE THE PROVENANCE OF PHOTOS?

AND IT APPEARS RATHER OBVIOUS AT THIS POINT IN TIME THAT

SOME OF THE IMAGES OF "THE TWO OSWALDS" ARE PHONY OR

FAKED. KATHY SPOTTED IT AND JUDYTH AGREES AS DO I THAT

ONE ON WHICH YOU HEAVILY DEPEND APPEARS TO BE ALTERED.

I THINK YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES.

MORE AND MORE, IT APPEARS TO ME THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN

CHILD'S PLAY TO CREATE A PARALLEL IMPERSONATION. I HAVE

HIS BOOK, BUT I WOULD APPRECIATE HAVING SOME ANSWERS.

AND HASN'T ROBERT BEEN DISPOSED TO SUPPORT THE THEORY

THAT HIS BROTHER WAS THE ASSASSIN? SINCE THAT IS PURE

FANTASY, DOESN'T THAT SUGGEST THAT HE (ROBERT) MAY HAVE

BEEN DEEPLY INVOLVED? WHO BETTER TO IMPERSONATE LEE?

IF YOU AND JOHN DON'T HAVE DIRECT, CONVINCING ANSWERS

TO THESE QUESTIONS, THEN I AM GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME

TAKING ALL OF THIS SERIOUSLY. YOU HAD AN OBVIOUS DOUBLE

AT HAND. HOW MUCH TIME HAVE YOU SPENT IN STUDYING HIM?

IS IT POSSIBLE ROBERT COULD HAVE BEEN A "SECOND OSWALD"?

DID YOU AND JOHN ATTEMPT TO TRACK ROBERT'S WHEREABOUTS

ON CRUCIAL DATES? THE PHOTO ABOVE ON THE LEFT DOES NOT

LOOK TO ME REMOTELY LIKE LEE OSWALD. I DOUBT THAT IT IS.

Lee and Robert were almost as interchangeable as twins.

Jack

[Jack White]

Robert Oswald, of course, knew that Harvey was not his brother, and to this

day he "cooperates" with the perpetrators, as does Marina...for safety reasons.

Robert, Marina and Ruth Paine are the only remaining living persons who

knew both Harvey and Lee. If they were to tell what they know, the case

would be solved.

Robert likely was an unwitting participant. Because both he and Lee were

Marines, and they looked very much alike, the military had photos and

records of both to use in creating confusion in the official record. I am

fairly certain that photos of Robert were in some cases used to portray

Lee. Of course Robert was ASTOUNDED when the assassination happened

and Harvey was named the assassin. What he had assumed was a rather

benign assignment of Lee took a very terrible turn. Read his testimony for

his reaction to the event.

Jack

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

ADDENDUM FROM JUDYTH ABOUT "KAN KUN":

PROBABLY WORTH PRINTING IN ITS ENTIRETY:

From: Judyth Vary Baker [elect63@xs4all.nl]

Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 7:57 PM

To: Deb Bert

Cc: Greg; Howpl@aol.com; Joe Riehl; Judyth Baker; Martin Shackelford

Subject: IMPORTANT: "fine'' hotel built in 1930 identified near KAN KUN : thank you, Deb Bert!

Deb Bert wrote Judyth Vary Baker [elect63@xs4all.nl]:

Sat 10/4/2003 7:57 PM

But--before development as a resort was undertaken, the area (of the present Cancun resort) was called "Kan Kun," "KanKun," and even "Cancun." A pleasant drive from Kankun/Cancun is the Hotel Mayaland. It's nothing short of stunning. At it is at the very gate of old Chichen Itza with the ancient observatory (which we could see from our window), El Castillo (incredible pyramid with an inner room that can be entered via a claustrophobic climb up some very dark and steep stairs. At the top, there stands El Tigre with jade eyes. Well worth the climb.), the Red House, the Cenote, the ball park...the whole nine yards. Probably the most interesting fact about this hotel, as it pertains to this discussion is that Hotel Mayaland was built in 1930 by the Barbachano family. It had been a destination for the wealthy for decades before it was "discovered."

JIM LOOKING FOR OSWALD AUTOPSY PHOTOGRAPHS:

NOTE: Judyth has asked me to add the following note, which

is highly relevant to my recently discovery that Lee's autopsy

photographs are being altered. I am looking for the full-body,

naked image taken from above and behind his left foot, which

I have somewhere in my records but cannot put my hands on.

If anyone has that photograph, please send it to me. Thanks!]

ALSO...below is a note that I (Judyth) would like posted:

An FBI legend would be created, after his death, that Lee was actually a homosexual, as his pubic area was ‘shaved.” What authorities didn’t mention is that Lee’s pubic area had been shaved by the Dallas police: Ref: Document F-85950, Supplementary Offense Report, 11/24/63: On 11/23/63 at 2:45 PM two detectives “went to the 5th floor jail and removed hair samples from the head, chest, arms, arm pits, legs and pubic area of Lee Harvey Oswald.” The shaving was done in the presence of FBI agent Hall, at his request."

=======================================

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JIM HAS MORE QUESTIONS FOR JACK ABOUT ROBERT OSWALD:

In post #469 on page 32, Judyth made the following observations:

I knew that Lee was aware of and even wanted impersonations. We covered up our tracks very well and after Lee left Reily, I could never dare meet him outside there anymore.

Just trying to say, when you know the man, you know some things simply aren’t true.

Then it's easy to find what is true and present it.

Lee told me he even had a relative there. In New Orleans, two of his relatives were working for Reily when he was, and one worker describes a relative as smoking who was actually Lee, as Lee mentioned his male relative smoked.

People should notice that the boy is leaning back...the photo itself has been altered slightly around the nose ...as many other photos, as well...also, though this is supposed to be the Bronx Zoo, Robert Oswald has a fuzzy memory on a lot of stuff, and remember, Lee was visiting John Pic's home, not Robert's, in New York.

Robert has committed various errors and told lies as well, due to his affair with Marina shortly after Lee's death.

He 'found' the damning Imperial Reflex camera in the PAINE garage that had been so thoroughly searched...

Right after being caught with Marina....

Robert then moved into a nice new brick house that he could not have afforded before then.

Then catch what Robert has to say about his brother Lee as the assassin of JFK during a PBS "Frontline" interview:

(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh...ews/oswald.html)

Robert Oswald:

In your mind, are there questions about whether Lee shot President Kennedy?

There is no question in my mind that Lee was responsible for the three shots fired, two of the shots hitting the president and killing him. There is no question in my mind that he also shot Officer Tippit. How can you explain one without the other? I think they're inseparable. I'm talking about the police officer being shot and the president. You look at the factual data, you look at the rifle, you look at the pistol ownership, you look at his note about the Walker shooting. You look at the general opportunity -- he was present. He wasn't present when they took a head count [at the Texas School Book Depository].

I watched the deterioration of a human being. You look at that last year -- his work, his family, trying to go to Cuba, trying to go back to Russia. His wife is wanting to go back to Russia. Everything is deteriorating.

You look at all the data there, and it comes up to one conclusion as far as I'm concerned -- the Warren Commission was correct.

JIM'S COMMENTS ABOUT THE ALLEGED "EXPERTS" ON LEE HARVEY OSWALD:

These observations suggest to me that Robert was a key player in framing Lee. This is quite outrageous. You guys are supposed to be the "experts" on Lee Harvey Oswald and I have to learn about Robert having what appears to be motive, means, and opportunity to frame him from Judyth? And you guys have the nerve to challenge her background and her competence and her qualifications? The situation here is entirely outrageous. This woman appears to me to be doing more to solve the case in relation to Lee Harvey Oswald than you and John Armstrong and David S. Lifton put together.

Lee and Robert were almost as interchangeable as twins.

Jack

Edited March 27, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Jack White]

I have not evaded anything. I have been busy with

doctor and dental appointments and mowing my grass.

I spend little time on the computer now that the weather

is nice. The long ALL CAPS and abusive ramblings of JVB

are very difficult to wade thru, and I seldom read them

carefully because they are repetitive and predictable.

To learn John Armstrong's methodology, read the book.

He footnotes extensively and tells about every source.

If you can find a questionable documentation, please

let us know about it.

He depended VERY LARGELY on interviews of people

who knew the Oswald family. He and Robert Groden

videotaped many of these interviews. He specifically

quotes interviews as sources. Interviews cannot be faked.

If there are fake documents, the WC was taken in by them

because most assassination documents he uses were also

used by the WC. There is no way other public record

documents can be faked, because he made extensive use

of city directories, phone books, court records, real estate

transactions, etc...none of which can be fabricated because

they pre-existed 1963. Fabrication of a telephone book

that was a print run of 200,000 is obviously impossible.

I am not aware of anything I have purposely evaded

if I know the answer. Please rephrase (brief one sentence

questions) any thing you want me to answer. I may have

missed them in the mass of ALL CAPS TYPING used by

JVB. The reason the previous posting seemed a combination

of writing by you and JVB was the ALL CAPS TYPING that

is her trademark. Some of the remarks seemed to be hers.

I do not understand your questioning of the authenticity of

certain publicly published photos. The funeral photo of

Marina, Robert and Marguerite, for instance, was taken and

published by the Fort Worth Star-Telegram the next day.

There was no reason for the newspaper or anyone else

to "fake" it, yet you question whether it is authentic.

As for his uncle Murret tying LHO to the mafia, that is

undocumented and undocumentable. LHO's association with

Uncle Dutz was under the age of 5 and around the age of 14.

It is most dubious that these childhood associations with

a relative would have made either LHO a mafioso.

I am growing very tired of unwarranted accusations about

me, my intelligence, my motives and my research.

I have nothing but pity for this poor quixotic person who has

abandoned a potentially productive life for a person of her

obvious intelligence in order to promote her illicit affair with

a married man.

Jack

JIM DIRECTS SOME QUESTIONS TO JACK ABOUT ROBERT:

WHEN I ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PRINCIPLES OF SELECTION

THAT JOHN ARMSTRONG USED TO DETERMINE WHICH RECORDS

AND DOCUMENTS WERE GENUINE AND WHICH NOT, YOU OFFER

NO RESPONSE. THAT SUGGESTS HE VACUUMED ALL OF THEM UP.

I AM ALSO CONCERNED WITH THE PROVENANCE OF THE PHOTOS

OF THE SECOND MARGUERITE. MY FATHER'S SECOND WIFE WAS

ALSO NAMED "MARGUERITE". I COULD OFFER PHOTOGRAPHS OF

HER AND IDENTIFY HER AS A "SECOND MARGUERITE" AS WELL.

THE POINT I AM MAKING, JACK, IS THAT IT IS NOT DIFFICULT TO

FIND PHOTOS AND MAKE CLAIMS ABOUT THE IDENTITY OF THOSE

SHOWN. IF JOHN HAD NO PRINCIPLES FOR SORTING DOCUMENTS,

WHAT DID HE DO TO DETERMINE THE PROVENANCE OF PHOTOS?

AND IT APPEARS RATHER OBVIOUS AT THIS POINT IN TIME THAT

SOME OF THE IMAGES OF "THE TWO OSWALDS" ARE PHONY OR

FAKED. KATHY SPOTTED IT AND JUDYTH AGREES AS DO I THAT

ONE ON WHICH YOU HEAVILY DEPEND APPEARS TO BE ALTERED.

I THINK YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES.

MORE AND MORE, IT APPEARS TO ME THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN

CHILD'S PLAY TO CREATE A PARALLEL IMPERSONATION. I HAVE

HIS BOOK, BUT I WOULD APPRECIATE HAVING SOME ANSWERS.

AND HASN'T ROBERT BEEN DISPOSED TO SUPPORT THE THEORY

THAT HIS BROTHER WAS THE ASSASSIN? SINCE THAT IS PURE

FANTASY, DOESN'T THAT SUGGEST THAT HE (ROBERT) MAY HAVE

BEEN DEEPLY INVOLVED? WHO BETTER TO IMPERSONATE LEE?

IF YOU AND JOHN DON'T HAVE DIRECT, CONVINCING ANSWERS

TO THESE QUESTIONS, THEN I AM GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME

TAKING ALL OF THIS SERIOUSLY. YOU HAD AN OBVIOUS DOUBLE

AT HAND. HOW MUCH TIME HAVE YOU SPENT IN STUDYING HIM?

IS IT POSSIBLE ROBERT COULD HAVE BEEN A "SECOND OSWALD"?

DID YOU AND JOHN ATTEMPT TO TRACK ROBERT'S WHEREABOUTS

ON CRUCIAL DATES? THE PHOTO ABOVE ON THE LEFT DOES NOT

LOOK TO ME REMOTELY LIKE LEE OSWALD. I DOUBT THAT IT IS.

Lee and Robert were almost as interchangeable as twins.

Jack

[Jack White]

Who are the YOU GUYS you refer to?

What are your questions?

I have always said that Robert Oswald participated in the framing of Harvey.

Harvey was not his brother, so he cooperated in framing him. Now what is

your question about this opinion? Are you saying I am wrong about Robert?

I have long said that some photos of "Lee" are really of Robert. Are you

disputing this? Your questions are not clear.

It is clear to me that Robert helped frame "LHO". I have said this for about

thirty years. Are you disputing this? I do not understand your accusation.

Jack

JIM HAS MORE QUESTIONS FOR JACK ABOUT ROBERT OSWALD:

In post #469 on page 32, Judyth made the following observations:

I knew that Lee was aware of and even wanted impersonations. We covered up our tracks very well and after Lee left Reily, I could never dare meet him outside there anymore.

Just trying to say, when you know the man, you know some things simply aren’t true.

Then it's easy to find what is true and present it.

Lee told me he even had a relative there. In New Orleans, two of his relatives were working for Reily when he was, and one worker describes a relative as smoking who was actually Lee, as Lee mentioned his male relative smoked.

People should notice that the boy is leaning back...the photo itself has been altered slightly around the nose ...as many other photos, as well...also, though this is supposed to be the Bronx Zoo, Robert Oswald has a fuzzy memory on a lot of stuff, and remember, Lee was visiting John Pic's home, not Robert's, in New York.

Robert has committed various errors and told lies as well, due to his affair with Marina shortly after Lee's death.

He 'found' the damning Imperial Reflex camera in the PAINE garage that had been so thoroughly searched...

Right after being caught with Marina....

Robert then moved into a nice new brick house that he could not have afforded before then.

Then catch what Robert has to say about his brother Lee as the assassin of JFK during a PBS "Frontline" interview:

(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh...ews/oswald.html)

Robert Oswald:

In your mind, are there questions about whether Lee shot President Kennedy?

There is no question in my mind that Lee was responsible for the three shots fired, two of the shots hitting the president and killing him. There is no question in my mind that he also shot Officer Tippit. How can you explain one without the other? I think they're inseparable. I'm talking about the police officer being shot and the president. You look at the factual data, you look at the rifle, you look at the pistol ownership, you look at his note about the Walker shooting. You look at the general opportunity -- he was present. He wasn't present when they took a head count [at the Texas School Book Depository].

I watched the deterioration of a human being. You look at that last year -- his work, his family, trying to go to Cuba, trying to go back to Russia. His wife is wanting to go back to Russia. Everything is deteriorating.

You look at all the data there, and it comes up to one conclusion as far as I'm concerned -- the Warren Commission was correct.

JIM'S COMMENTS ABOUT THE ALLEGED "EXPERTS" ON LEE HARVEY OSWALD:

These observations suggest to me that Robert was a key player in framing Lee. This is quite outrageous. You guys are supposed to be the "experts" on Lee Harvey Oswald and I have to learn about Robert having what appears to be motive, means, and opportunity to frame him from Judyth? And you guys have the nerve to challenge her background and her competence and her qualifications? The situation here is entirely outrageous. This woman appears to me to be doing more to solve the case in relation to Lee Harvey Oswald than you and John Armstrong and David S. Lifton put together.

Lee and Robert were almost as interchangeable as twins.

Jack

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Jack,

OK. Let's see if we can sort some of it out together. By "you guys", I am

referring to you, John Armstrong, and David Lifton, whom I have taken

to be the leading experts on Lee Harvey Oswald. I know that John and

you believe there were two, one "Lee", the other "Harvey", and that the

one Judyth knew in New Orleans was the one to whom you refer to as

"Harvey". According to Dawn Mededith, the one you call "Lee" (not the

one whom Judyth knew) was short-tempered, non-intellectual and could

not speak Russian, while the one you call "Harvey" was mild-mannered,

intellectual and fluent in Russian. You say the one called "Harvey" was

born in Hungary and liked the name "Harvey", while Judyth's says that

he was born in Louisiana, had a slight Cajun accent, and hated the name

"Harvey". So we know that at least some of this has to be wrong. OK?

I do not know if Lifton believes there were "two Oswalds", but I rather

suspect he does not. So what we know about "Oswald" is very obscure.

Now, in this new post you say that you have been suggesting for years

that Robert was involved in framing "Harvey", the man Judyth knew in

New Orleans as "Lee", who, according to you, was not his brother, even

though they looked enough alike that they were virtually "dead ringers"

for one another. In addition, in a recent post, you make this observation:

Today, 05:23 PM

Post #674

Super Member

****

Group: Members

Posts: 7127

Joined: 26-April 04

Member No.: 667

Robert Oswald, of course, knew that Harvey was not his brother, and to this

day he "cooperates" with the perpetrators, as does Marina...for safety reasons.

Robert, Marina and Ruth Paine are the only remaining living persons who

knew both Harvey and Lee. If they were to tell what they know, the case

would be solved.

Robert likely was an unwitting participant. Because both he and Lee were

Marines, and they looked very much alike, the military had photos and

records of both to use in creating confusion in the official record. I am

fairly certain that photos of Robert were in some cases used to portray

Lee. Of course Robert was ASTOUNDED when the assassination happened

and Harvey was named the assassin. What he had assumed was a rather

benign assignment of Lee took a very terrible turn. Read his testimony for

his reaction to the event.

Jack

So here are my questions:

(1) The man who died, according to you, was "Harvey", whom Judyth

knew as "Lee" and who was shot to death by Jack Ruby on 24 November.

(2) Although Robert was the brother of the one you call "Lee" and not of

the one Judyth knew and Ruby shot, they were "dead ringers" of each other.

(3) According to your latest, #678, you have always insisted that Robert

was involved in framing the man that Judyth knew and that Ruby shot.

(4) In your earlier, #674, however, you state (a) that Robert likely was an

unwitting participant and ( was astounded when "Harvey" was fingered.

(5) Now, if Robert was helping to frame "Harvey", how could he possibly

have been astounded when "Harvey" was blamed for the the assassination?

(6) Reading his testimony for his reaction to the event sounds like a waste

of time when we know that (a) he "found" the Imperial Reflex camera no one

had been able to locate in the Paine's garage; ( he had an affair with Marina

following her husband's death; and, © he move into a nice, new brick home,

which he previously could not have afforded. What speaks louder to you?

(7) Moreover, Judyth has shown that, when you correct for distortion, the

images of "Lee" and of "Harvey" tend to converge, which suggests to me

that, while there may have been "two Oswalds", they are not adequately

identified as "Harvey & Lee" but instead more plausibly as "Robert & Lee":

So my question for you, my friend, is how can you reconcile what I have

just presented, especially your claims (i) that Robert was involved in the

framing of "Harvey" and (ii) that he was an unwitting participant who was

"astounded" when "Harvey" was fingered as the assassin? I don't get it.

It is plausible to me that Robert was impersonating Lee on some occasions.

And I hope you are not going to suggest that Robert "found" the Imperial

Reflex camera, had an affair with Marina, and purchased a new brick home

because he had to "play along" with the perpetrators "for safety reasons"!

Jim

Who are the YOU GUYS you refer to?

What are your questions?

I have always said that Robert Oswald participated in the framing of Harvey.

Harvey was not his brother, so he cooperated in framing him. Now what is

your question about this opinion? Are you saying I am wrong about Robert?

I have long said that some photos of "Lee" are really of Robert. Are you

disputing this? Your questions are not clear.

It is clear to me that Robert helped frame "LHO". I have said this for about

thirty years. Are you disputing this? I do not understand your accusation.

Jack

JIM HAS MORE QUESTIONS FOR JACK ABOUT ROBERT OSWALD:

In post #469 on page 32, Judyth made the following observations:

I knew that Lee was aware of and even wanted impersonations. We covered up our tracks very well and after Lee left Reily, I could never dare meet him outside there anymore.

Just trying to say, when you know the man, you know some things simply aren’t true.

Then it's easy to find what is true and present it.

Lee told me he even had a relative there. In New Orleans, two of his relatives were working for Reily when he was, and one worker describes a relative as smoking who was actually Lee, as Lee mentioned his male relative smoked.

People should notice that the boy is leaning back...the photo itself has been altered slightly around the nose ...as many other photos, as well...also, though this is supposed to be the Bronx Zoo, Robert Oswald has a fuzzy memory on a lot of stuff, and remember, Lee was visiting John Pic's home, not Robert's, in New York.

Robert has committed various errors and told lies as well, due to his affair with Marina shortly after Lee's death.

He 'found' the damning Imperial Reflex camera in the PAINE garage that had been so thoroughly searched...

Right after being caught with Marina....

Robert then moved into a nice new brick house that he could not have afforded before then.

Then catch what Robert has to say about his brother Lee as the assassin of JFK during a PBS "Frontline" interview:

(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh...ews/oswald.html)

Robert Oswald:

In your mind, are there questions about whether Lee shot President Kennedy?

There is no question in my mind that Lee was responsible for the three shots fired, two of the shots hitting the president and killing him. There is no question in my mind that he also shot Officer Tippit. How can you explain one without the other? I think they're inseparable. I'm talking about the police officer being shot and the president. You look at the factual data, you look at the rifle, you look at the pistol ownership, you look at his note about the Walker shooting. You look at the general opportunity -- he was present. He wasn't present when they took a head count [at the Texas School Book Depository].

I watched the deterioration of a human being. You look at that last year -- his work, his family, trying to go to Cuba, trying to go back to Russia. His wife is wanting to go back to Russia. Everything is deteriorating.

You look at all the data there, and it comes up to one conclusion as far as I'm concerned -- the Warren Commission was correct.

JIM'S COMMENTS ABOUT THE ALLEGED "EXPERTS" ON LEE HARVEY OSWALD:

These observations suggest to me that Robert was a key player in framing Lee. This is quite outrageous. You guys are supposed to be the "experts" on Lee Harvey Oswald and I have to learn about Robert having what appears to be motive, means, and opportunity to frame him from Judyth? And you guys have the nerve to challenge her background and her competence and her qualifications? The situation here is entirely outrageous. This woman appears to me to be doing more to solve the case in relation to Lee Harvey Oswald than you and John Armstrong and David S. Lifton put together.

Lee and Robert were almost as interchangeable as twins.

Jack

Edited March 27, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Jack White]

I will reply to your questions in segments, because the forum format is

not good for a "mass reply".

Segments to follow.

Jack

Jack,

OK. Let's see if we can sort some of it out together. By "you guys", I am

referring to you, John Armstrong, and David Lifton, whom I have taken

to be the leading experts on Lee Harvey Oswald. I know that John and

you believe there were two, one "Lee", the other "Harvey", and that the

one Judyth knew in New Orleans was the one to whom you refer to as

"Harvey". According to Dawn Mededith, the one you call "Lee" (not the

one whom Judyth knew) was short-tempered, non-intellectual and could

not speak Russian, while the one you call "Harvey" was mild-mannered,

intellectual and fluent in Russian. You say the one called "Harvey" was

born in Hungary and liked the name "Harvey", while Judyth's says that

he was born in Louisiana, had a slight Cajun accent, and hated the name

"Harvey". So we know that at least some of this has to be wrong. OK?

I do not know if Lifton believes there were "two Oswalds", but I rather

suspect he does not. So what we know about "Oswald" is very obscure.

Now, in this new post you say that you have been suggesting for years

that Robert was involved in framing "Harvey", the man Judyth knew in

New Orleans as "Lee", who, according to you, was not his brother, even

though they looked enough alike that they were virtually "dead ringers"

for one another. In addition, in a recent post, you make this observation:

Today, 05:23 PM

Post #674

Super Member

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Group: Members

Posts: 7127

Joined: 26-April 04

Member No.: 667

Robert Oswald, of course, knew that Harvey was not his brother, and to this

day he "cooperates" with the perpetrators, as does Marina...for safety reasons.

Robert, Marina and Ruth Paine are the only remaining living persons who

knew both Harvey and Lee. If they were to tell what they know, the case

would be solved.

Robert likely was an unwitting participant. Because both he and Lee were

Marines, and they looked very much alike, the military had photos and

records of both to use in creating confusion in the official record. I am

fairly certain that photos of Robert were in some cases used to portray

Lee. Of course Robert was ASTOUNDED when the assassination happened

and Harvey was named the assassin. What he had assumed was a rather

benign assignment of Lee took a very terrible turn. Read his testimony for

his reaction to the event.

Jack

So here are my questions:

(1) The man who died, according to you, was "Harvey", whom Judyth

knew as "Lee" and who was shot to death by Jack Ruby on 24 November.

(2) Although Robert was the brother of the one you call "Lee" and not of

the one Judyth knew and Ruby shot, they were "dead ringers" of each other.

(3) According to your latest, #678, you have always insisted that Robert

was involved in framing the man that Judyth knew and that Ruby shot.

(4) In your earlier, #674, however, you state (a) that Robert likely was an

unwitting participant and ( was astounded when "Harvey" was fingered.

(5) Now, if Robert was helping to frame "Harvey", how could he possibly

have been astounded when "Harvey" was blamed for the the assassination?

(6) Reading his testimony for his reaction to the event sounds like a waste

of time when we know that (a) he "found" the Imperial Reflex camera no one

had been able to locate in the Paine's garage; ( he had an affair with Marina

following her husband's death; and, © he move into a nice, new brick home,

which he previously could not have afforded. What speaks louder to you?

(7) Moreover, Judyth has shown that, when you correct for distortion, the

images of "Lee" and of "Harvey" tend to converge, which suggests to me

that, while there may have been "two Oswalds", they are not adequately

identified as "Harvey & Lee" but instead more plausibly as "Robert & Lee":

So my question for you, my friend, is how can you reconcile what I have

just presented, especially your claims (i) that Robert was involved in the

framing of "Harvey" and (ii) that he was an unwitting participant who was

"astounded" when "Harvey" was fingered as the assassin? I don't get it.

It is plausible to me that Robert was impersonating Lee on some occasions.

And I hope you are not going to suggest that Robert "found" the Imperial

Reflex camera, had an affair with Marina, and purchased a new brick home

because he had to "play along" with the perpetrators "for safety reasons"!

Jim

Who are the YOU GUYS you refer to?

What are your questions?

I have always said that Robert Oswald participated in the framing of Harvey.

Harvey was not his brother, so he cooperated in framing him. Now what is

your question about this opinion? Are you saying I am wrong about Robert?

I have long said that some photos of "Lee" are really of Robert. Are you

disputing this? Your questions are not clear.

It is clear to me that Robert helped frame "LHO". I have said this for about

thirty years. Are you disputing this? I do not understand your accusation.

Jack

JIM HAS MORE QUESTIONS FOR JACK ABOUT ROBERT OSWALD:

In post #469 on page 32, Judyth made the following observations:

I knew that Lee was aware of and even wanted impersonations. We covered up our tracks very well and after Lee left Reily, I could never dare meet him outside there anymore.

Just trying to say, when you know the man, you know some things simply aren’t true.

Then it's easy to find what is true and present it.

Lee told me he even had a relative there. In New Orleans, two of his relatives were working for Reily when he was, and one worker describes a relative as smoking who was actually Lee, as Lee mentioned his male relative smoked.

People should notice that the boy is leaning back...the photo itself has been altered slightly around the nose ...as many other photos, as well...also, though this is supposed to be the Bronx Zoo, Robert Oswald has a fuzzy memory on a lot of stuff, and remember, Lee was visiting John Pic's home, not Robert's, in New York.

Robert has committed various errors and told lies as well, due to his affair with Marina shortly after Lee's death.

He 'found' the damning Imperial Reflex camera in the PAINE garage that had been so thoroughly searched...

Right after being caught with Marina....

Robert then moved into a nice new brick house that he could not have afforded before then.

Then catch what Robert has to say about his brother Lee as the assassin of JFK during a PBS "Frontline" interview:

(http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh...ews/oswald.html)

Robert Oswald:

In your mind, are there questions about whether Lee shot President Kennedy?

There is no question in my mind that Lee was responsible for the three shots fired, two of the shots hitting the president and killing him. There is no question in my mind that he also shot Officer Tippit. How can you explain one without the other? I think they're inseparable. I'm talking about the police officer being shot and the president. You look at the factual data, you look at the rifle, you look at the pistol ownership, you look at his note about the Walker shooting. You look at the general opportunity -- he was present. He wasn't present when they took a head count [at the Texas School Book Depository].

I watched the deterioration of a human being. You look at that last year -- his work, his family, trying to go to Cuba, trying to go back to Russia. His wife is wanting to go back to Russia. Everything is deteriorating.

You look at all the data there, and it comes up to one conclusion as far as I'm concerned -- the Warren Commission was correct.

JIM'S COMMENTS ABOUT THE ALLEGED "EXPERTS" ON LEE HARVEY OSWALD:

These observations suggest to me that Robert was a key player in framing Lee. This is quite outrageous. You guys are supposed to be the "experts" on Lee Harvey Oswald and I have to learn about Robert having what appears to be motive, means, and opportunity to frame him from Judyth? And you guys have the nerve to challenge her background and her competence and her qualifications? The situation here is entirely outrageous. This woman appears to me to be doing more to solve the case in relation to Lee Harvey Oswald than you and John Armstrong and David S. Lifton put together.

Lee and Robert were almost as interchangeable as twins.

Jack