Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH WRITES TO ME ABOUT JACK AND DAVID:

NOTE: I believe powerful confirming evidence for Judyth's story may be found in Anna Lewis' reports of double-dating with Judyth and Lee in New Orleans, Ed Haslam's reports about having met a "Judyth Vary Baker" imposter, and Nigel Turner's documentary, "The Love Affair", which are all archived on my blog, "14 Reasons to Believe in Judyth Vary Baker", http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/03/14...udyth-vary.html .]

Dear Jim--

Please know that I feel terrible about upsetting you or Jack or anyone. I have lost family members over this.

Please remember that history is at stake here. This is why I cannot give up, and I know you are the same way. I will never change. You can trust me.

However, it is painful to see how Jack is reacting. I have thought about it and will share with you what I think we are witnessing:

I found it unsettling that Jack did not notice the 10% distortion in the photos.

This is the very key to his situation.

What this tells us, logically speaking, is that this photo expert did not read any of the articles with the photos that you posted, after (at most) the first few lines.

Why?

Psychologically speaking, this is a case of cognitive dissonance (see below).

Jack avoids reading anything I post. Instead, he posts material he hopes will discredit me. He has to discredit me, Jim. (see below)

If he had read the article he would have known the photo was distorted.

Jack has resorted to a classic avoidance strategy that a person under great concern that he has made a big mistake typically resorts to if he feels it will destroy his reputation/self image/both.

It is so important that I am to be declared a hoax that it is impossible for him to change his mind.

I do not think Jack can help it.

He invested too much, for too long in 'two Oswalds' and Jim, I have not even begin to slice and dice this thing, for I know things he does not and will eventually get to them.

My strength is limited. Today I had another bad nosebleed that lasted for hours. It drains my strength.

I had tubes in my nose for months when a small child and my nasal membranes were badly damaged.

I hold no animosity toward Jack.

The problem we have is that if we present evidence, he is going to look worse and worse. Imagine his problem:

if I am not discredited, no matter what he does, he is discredited.

But the biggest problem is this: the truth must come out.

It is more important than me. It is more important than you ... It is even more important than Jack, and he knows it.

And more and more I blame Armstrong's sloppy research as I probe more into this -- with what I know. John Williams was told some things, so you will understand that I have kept silent on the Harvey and Lee matter for years.

Sadly, here’s what's going on with Jack, or otherwise he would have read the article where he said there was no difference between the two photos (10% distortion, as is caused by copying a copy of a copy of a copy of a photo...etc.)

Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously. The theory of cognitive dissonance proposes that people have a motivational drive to reduce dissonance by changing their attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors, or by justifying or rationalizing them.[2] It is one of the most influential and extensively studied theories in social psychology.

Dissonance occurs when a person perceives a logical inconsistency in his beliefs, when one idea implies the opposite of another. The dissonance might be experienced as guilt, anger, frustration, or embarrassment. The idea of "sour grapes"—from the fable The Fox and the Grapes by Aesop (ca. 620-564 BCE), where the fox decides that the grapes he is unable to reach are probably not ripe enough to eat anyway—illustrates an example of cognitive dissonance: desiring something, then criticizing it because it proves unattainable, a phenomenon that Jon Elster calls "adaptive preference formation."[1]

A powerful cause of dissonance is an idea in conflict with a fundamental element of the self-concept, such as "I am a good person" or "I made the right decision". The anxiety that comes with the possibility of having made a bad decision can lead to rationalization, the tendency to create additional reasons or justifications to support one's choices. A person who just spent too much money on a new car might decide that the new vehicle is much less likely to break down than his or her old car. This belief may or may not be true, but it would reduce dissonance and make the person feel better. Dissonance can also lead to confirmation bias, the denial of disconfirming evidence, and other ego defense mechanisms.

I'm sorry, Jim.

I had to show Greg Parker he was wrong about dyslexia and reading disabilities...We have to get to the truth, and Greg was wrong. I would not have brought it up if it were a matter of dispute. Lee and I discussed it on the basis of published journal articles, therefore, I was comfortable to bring it up. Greg said it was the 1970's, etc. And Asperger's as well--which you correctly identified as most improbable--again saves Lee Oswald's personality from being skewed from the truth.

This is why I chose to write the book in dialogue.

I have hope because you're the most intelligent researcher I've ever dealt with.

And even though it hurts -- I have lost two sons, my profession, my health over this. I pray Jack will

change, but I believe it is impossible...

Unfortunately for me and for the truth, Jack will have motivation to spread untruths about me everywhere, to stop his panic. Otherwise, he feels his reputation has been destroyed.

According to the theory, he will exit from the thread, retreating before he looks worse, but privately, he will go into action. He will circulate bad things about me to rescue his reputation. The theory suggests active campaign against me.

He is incapable of changing.

The one small hope is that he will view the documentary and will decide to call a truce. If he is capable of reading the information which he has avoided and will face it, if he is a great man, he will apologize and look honestly at everything.

But he is getting older and has used up so much energy; he may not have the strength to go through it all again.

This is why Lifton attacked me -- hoping he would not have to rewrite his book.

You have taken on a massive undertaking, but I assure you, I will not let you down.

You will end up being able to see clearly -- just as you do with the Zapruder film .

JVB

[Note: I received this yesterday, which means it is not a response to David Lifton's new post, which I am sending her.]

Edited March 26, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Possible real reasons for the long term surveillance and Psyops of Judyth Vary?

If anyone wants to know you have my permission to tell them your "psyops expert" is now

partly retired, has a Ph.D. from a big ten University, is a Psychologist Emeritus who was

in private practice for over 35 years, retired his licenses in psychology and marriage &

family therapy recently; has worked with quite a few intel victims over the years and

some in the business too; has done various types of consulting which included consulting

to medical facilities and other businesses, managed several businesses over the years;

and did extensive participant observation research in these matters and others along the

way.

The real reasons for the long term surveillance and Psyops of Judyth Vary?

Jim, I re-though the whole Judyth Vary matter and had a new idea of what may be the real

reason she has been so harassed for so many years. I may be completely off base but

consider this. You may want to share this with Judyth and she what she thinks. This

came to me after many different evaluations and consideration of almost every possible

scenario based on what I know so far. Maybe once Judyth's book is out and I buy a copy

and read it I can figure a better explanation, but I doubt it.

I think Oshner selected Judyth as a young recruit because he found out about her

exceptional intelligence, her creativity and research gifts and because he felt certain

she would be highly loyal and also very deniable as a bioweapon expert if she was able to

succeed in development of that bioweapon to get Castro and other "enemies of the state"

as he expected her to be able to.

Was it his relative who got cancer from the SV-40 viral fragment contaminants in polio

vaccine or someone else close? Most likely a bifurcated agenda was developed for Judyth

sometime after her work for Oschner began. Perhaps he wanted her to help with the

development of the bio weapon as an assassination tool, but also developed an interest in

using her to assist him in finding a fix for the SV-40 problem, which he was perhaps very

concerned about once he understood its serious ramifications.

It is possible that Judyth actually discovered a cure without realizing it and either

told oschner or someone else close who talked. The company is known for using close

surveillance teams and informants close by on high priority cases, and this would likely

have been done with Oschner, Oswald, Mary Sherman, David Ferrie and others who were

associated.

Perhaps Oschner got the message when Mary Sherman was electrocuted at the lab. Maybe it

was met for him. Could he have decided to set aside any concerns for the SV-40 problems,

since he never took a stand publicly and exposed the horrendous seriousness of this

problem and he seemed to shifted into other matters. Perhaps he understood that he must

avoid the sv-40 matter and maybe he was told to just let it go, that it would be much

better for him if he steered clear of this, that perhaps it was being handled by other

researchers on a secret project, etc.

Could a major agreement between intel, big pharma and government planners emerged to

keep the monkey kidney cell lines that con tained SV-40 fragments growing into perpetuity

with these being used in the manufacture of almost all vaccines in order to further

eugenics, and keep big medicine and big pharma in the very lucrative business fighting

cancers caused by the SV-40 virus fragments, which has included massive amounts of money

spent on medical services and hospitalizations, production and sale of chemotherapy

agents which is also extremely lucrative?

Oschner's importance to the company appears to have diminished quickly as soon as there

was a change of plans, that JFK had to be hit to solve the LBJ/Fed Reserve/Vietnam/Cuban

"problems". Typically the company runs parallel programs to cover any and all

contingencies and selects the one that best fits their needs overall at a particular

time, based on how the total situation develops.

I think it was decided that Oschner's bioweapons program would be abandoned as a solution

to the JFK problem, sidetracked and taken over and absorbed by the DOD (Plum Island,

Dugway Proving Grounds, and eventually the Fort Detrick army biological weapons lab).

I think they likely saw Oschner as a possible security risk and had other plans for the

technology he developed regarding cancer as a bioweapon. Plus they decided to put him to

pasture in cancer society maintenance functions perhaps. I think the bioweapons issue

became so promising that it was decided that civilians like Oschner, even though he had

worked with intel for years, could not give the work enough special attention and would

balk at illegal, deadly covert experiments against large numbers of humans (which wa done

in Korea, Vietnam, and allegedly both Irag wars).

So, maybe Judyth discovered a cure for the SV-40 problem or else discovered an

application or necessary technology to be able to easily do that. I think she doesn't

realize the importance of what she did discover, and sinister forces have been assigned

to birdog her ever since Dealey Plaza to make sure she never put it all together and

shared it with legitimate cancer researchers around the world and the public.

Jim, it seems to me that only something like this would adequately provide a reason for

all the long term surveillance, stalking and hard core, heavy muscle psyops that have

been brought against her. This kind of intel work is expensive and no agency would spend

that much unless it was important. Another possibility is that that the intel work was

privatized to intel departments of a large corporations (this is commonly done these days

and makes deniability and cover much easier.

FURTHER REFLECTIONS:

Jim, part of any cure for many cancers would be first exposing the SV-40 problem world

wide, developing new cell lines for growing vaccines, and making clean vaccines, and

compensating victims through class action lawsuits, like the asbestos problem was taken

care of. (This thinking would quickly lead to the scientists and public wanting all

contaminants removed, especially the Thimerosal "preservative" (50% ethyl mercury, the

worst form of mercury, worse than methyl mercury.)

The other part would be developing the actual treatments to cure cancer, and this could

also in involve the use of good nutrition, nutritional supplements, etc. along with

advanced technology that Judyth perhaps could have been aware of or close to discovering

or would have discovered (or at least that is what intel thought, whether it was

privatized or run out of DOD or Langley or somewhere else inside the us govt.)

The other big issue that is related, is why did the "big boys" in the shadow govt decide

to stop trying to assassinate Castro and instead decide to murder JFK. Well, it is known

that the big boys that ran the shadow govt were into "playing all sides against the

middle", i.e., "perfidious albion" style. It is also known that someone at the highest

levels always tipped Castro off in advance of any plot to assassinate him by any means.

It is also known that he was a member of the council on foreign relations and it has

been rumored that the catholic church was protecting him.

I think the highest controllers in the shadow govt realized that their main concern

overall was "war profiteering" and that they were committed to controlled, limited police

action wars to obtain that, ie perpetual wars, and these would be done by agreement

between all parties, including the enemy. Look at the "Iron Mountain Report" to

understand their thinking. They wanted perpetual, limited war to sell war products, but

they did not want a nuclear WW3.

But in order to do this they had to somehow appease the US military high command, some of

whom were "rabid dogs" who wanted war with the soviets, even nuclear, and even a first

exchange following a staged, inside job supposed nuclear first strike by the soviets. So

the best solution for everyone including J. Edgar Mary and LBJ would be to assassinate

JFK using a military style triangulated hit done by Op-40 (many of which were Cubans

training to retake Cuba) and this Op-40 was a version of room 40 in England during WW2).

So the decision was made to abandon Ochsner's plan of assassinating Castro with the

cancer weapon. And the shadow govt had already come to the conclusion Castro could be

used for their own war profiteering purposes. He could be used to keep the cold war

scare going as means of obtaining plenty of defense funding from congress and the

American people. So Castro once again became our "bad boy" in Cuba, only this time he

was consorting with the Soviets.

[Jack White]

Baloney.

JUDYTH WRITES TO ME ABOUT JACK AND DAVID:

NOTE: I believe powerful confirming evidence for Judyth's story may be found in Anna Lewis' reports of double-dating with Judyth and Lee in New Orleans, Ed Haslam's reports about having met a "Judyth Vary Baker" imposter, and Nigel Turner's documentary, "The Love Affair", which are all archived on my blog, "14 Reasons to Believe in Judyth Vary Baker", http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/03/14...udyth-vary.html .]

Dear Jim--

Please know that I feel terrible about upsetting you or Jack or anyone. I have lost family members over this.

Please remember that history is at stake here. This is why I cannot give up, and I know you are the same way. I will never change. You can trust me.

However, it is painful to see how Jack is reacting. I have thought about it and will share with you what I think we are witnessing:

I found it unsettling that Jack did not notice the 10% distortion in the photos.

This is the very key to his situation.

What this tells us, logically speaking, is that this photo expert did not read any of the articles with the photos that you posted, after (at most) the first few lines.

Why?

Psychologically speaking, this is a case of cognitive dissonance (see below).

Jack avoids reading anything I post. Instead, he posts material he hopes will discredit me. He has to discredit me, Jim. (see below)

If he had read the article he would have known the photo was distorted.

Jack has resorted to a classic avoidance strategy that a person under great concern that he has made a big mistake typically resorts to if he feels it will destroy his reputation/self image/both.

It is so important that I am to be declared a hoax that it is impossible for him to change his mind.

I do not think Jack can help it.

He invested too much, for too long in 'two Oswalds' and Jim, I have not even begin to slice and dice this thing, for I know things he does not and will eventually get to them.

My strength is limited. Today I had another bad nosebleed that lasted for hours. It drains my strength.

I had tubes in my nose for months when a small child and my nasal membranes were badly damaged.

I hold no animosity toward Jack.

The problem we have is that if we present evidence, he is going to look worse and worse. Imagine his problem:

if I am not discredited, no matter what he does, he is discredited.

But the biggest problem is this: the truth must come out.

It is more important than me. It is more important than you ... It is even more important than Jack, and he knows it.

And more and more I blame Armstrong's sloppy research as I probe more into this -- with what I know. John Williams was told some things, so you will understand that I have kept silent on the Harvey and Lee matter for years.

Sadly, here’s what's going on with Jack, or otherwise he would have read the article where he said there was no difference between the two photos (10% distortion, as is caused by copying a copy of a copy of a copy of a photo...etc.)

Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously. The theory of cognitive dissonance proposes that people have a motivational drive to reduce dissonance by changing their attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors, or by justifying or rationalizing them.[2] It is one of the most influential and extensively studied theories in social psychology.

Dissonance occurs when a person perceives a logical inconsistency in his beliefs, when one idea implies the opposite of another. The dissonance might be experienced as guilt, anger, frustration, or embarrassment. The idea of "sour grapes"—from the fable The Fox and the Grapes by Aesop (ca. 620-564 BCE), where the fox decides that the grapes he is unable to reach are probably not ripe enough to eat anyway—illustrates an example of cognitive dissonance: desiring something, then criticizing it because it proves unattainable, a phenomenon that Jon Elster calls "adaptive preference formation."[1]

A powerful cause of dissonance is an idea in conflict with a fundamental element of the self-concept, such as "I am a good person" or "I made the right decision". The anxiety that comes with the possibility of having made a bad decision can lead to rationalization, the tendency to create additional reasons or justifications to support one's choices. A person who just spent too much money on a new car might decide that the new vehicle is much less likely to break down than his or her old car. This belief may or may not be true, but it would reduce dissonance and make the person feel better. Dissonance can also lead to confirmation bias, the denial of disconfirming evidence, and other ego defense mechanisms.

I'm sorry, Jim.

I had to show Greg Parker he was wrong about dyslexia and reading disabilities...We have to get to the truth, and Greg was wrong. I would not have brought it up if it were a matter of dispute. Lee and I discussed it on the basis of published journal articles, therefore, I was comfortable to bring it up. Greg said it was the 1970's, etc. And Asperger's as well--which you correctly identified as most improbable--again saves Lee Oswald's personality from being skewed from the truth.

This is why I chose to write the book in dialogue.

I have hope because you're the most intelligent researcher I've ever dealt with.

And even though it hurts -- I have lost two sons, my profession, my health over this. I pray Jack will

change, but I believe it is impossible...

Unfortunately for me and for the truth, Jack will have motivation to spread untruths about me everywhere, to stop his panic. Otherwise, he feels his reputation has been destroyed.

According to the theory, he will exit from the thread, retreating before he looks worse, but privately, he will go into action. He will circulate bad things about me to rescue his reputation. The theory suggests active campaign against me.

He is incapable of changing.

The one small hope is that he will view the documentary and will decide to call a truce. If he is capable of reading the information which he has avoided and will face it, if he is a great man, he will apologize and look honestly at everything.

But he is getting older and has used up so much energy; he may not have the strength to go through it all again.

This is why Lifton attacked me -- hoping he would not have to rewrite his book.

You have taken on a massive undertaking, but I assure you, I will not let you down.

You will end up being able to see clearly -- just as you do with the Zapruder film .

JVB

[Note: I received this yesterday, which means it is not a response to David Lifton's new post, which I am sending her.]

[Jack White]

Speculation.

To end such speculation I suggest a FOIA request for subjects:

Judyth Vary Baker cancer project

Oschner Cancer Project to kill Castro

Mary Sherman and David Ferrie cancer project

All government projects generate paperwork.

Speculation is not research.

Possible real reasons for the long term surveillance and Psyops of Judyth Vary?

If anyone wants to know you have my permission to tell them your "psyops expert" is now

partly retired, has a Ph.D. from a big ten University, is a Psychologist Emeritus who was

in private practice for over 35 years, retired his licenses in psychology and marriage &

family therapy recently; has worked with quite a few intel victims over the years and

some in the business too; has done various types of consulting which included consulting

to medical facilities and other businesses, managed several businesses over the years;

and did extensive participant observation research in these matters and others along the

way.

The real reasons for the long term surveillance and Psyops of Judyth Vary?

Jim, I re-though the whole Judyth Vary matter and had a new idea of what may be the real

reason she has been so harassed for so many years. I may be completely off base but

consider this. You may want to share this with Judyth and she what she thinks. This

came to me after many different evaluations and consideration of almost every possible

scenario based on what I know so far. Maybe once Judyth's book is out and I buy a copy

and read it I can figure a better explanation, but I doubt it.

I think Oshner selected Judyth as a young recruit because he found out about her

exceptional intelligence, her creativity and research gifts and because he felt certain

she would be highly loyal and also very deniable as a bioweapon expert if she was able to

succeed in development of that bioweapon to get Castro and other "enemies of the state"

as he expected her to be able to.

Was it his relative who got cancer from the SV-40 viral fragment contaminants in polio

vaccine or someone else close? Most likely a bifurcated agenda was developed for Judyth

sometime after her work for Oschner began. Perhaps he wanted her to help with the

development of the bio weapon as an assassination tool, but also developed an interest in

using her to assist him in finding a fix for the SV-40 problem, which he was perhaps very

concerned about once he understood its serious ramifications.

It is possible that Judyth actually discovered a cure without realizing it and either

told oschner or someone else close who talked. The company is known for using close

surveillance teams and informants close by on high priority cases, and this would likely

have been done with Oschner, Oswald, Mary Sherman, David Ferrie and others who were

associated.

Perhaps Oschner got the message when Mary Sherman was electrocuted at the lab. Maybe it

was met for him. Could he have decided to set aside any concerns for the SV-40 problems,

since he never took a stand publicly and exposed the horrendous seriousness of this

problem and he seemed to shifted into other matters. Perhaps he understood that he must

avoid the sv-40 matter and maybe he was told to just let it go, that it would be much

better for him if he steered clear of this, that perhaps it was being handled by other

researchers on a secret project, etc.

Could a major agreement between intel, big pharma and government planners emerged to

keep the monkey kidney cell lines that con tained SV-40 fragments growing into perpetuity

with these being used in the manufacture of almost all vaccines in order to further

eugenics, and keep big medicine and big pharma in the very lucrative business fighting

cancers caused by the SV-40 virus fragments, which has included massive amounts of money

spent on medical services and hospitalizations, production and sale of chemotherapy

agents which is also extremely lucrative?

Oschner's importance to the company appears to have diminished quickly as soon as there

was a change of plans, that JFK had to be hit to solve the LBJ/Fed Reserve/Vietnam/Cuban

"problems". Typically the company runs parallel programs to cover any and all

contingencies and selects the one that best fits their needs overall at a particular

time, based on how the total situation develops.

I think it was decided that Oschner's bioweapons program would be abandoned as a solution

to the JFK problem, sidetracked and taken over and absorbed by the DOD (Plum Island,

Dugway Proving Grounds, and eventually the Fort Detrick army biological weapons lab).

I think they likely saw Oschner as a possible security risk and had other plans for the

technology he developed regarding cancer as a bioweapon. Plus they decided to put him to

pasture in cancer society maintenance functions perhaps. I think the bioweapons issue

became so promising that it was decided that civilians like Oschner, even though he had

worked with intel for years, could not give the work enough special attention and would

balk at illegal, deadly covert experiments against large numbers of humans (which wa done

in Korea, Vietnam, and allegedly both Irag wars).

So, maybe Judyth discovered a cure for the SV-40 problem or else discovered an

application or necessary technology to be able to easily do that. I think she doesn't

realize the importance of what she did discover, and sinister forces have been assigned

to birdog her ever since Dealey Plaza to make sure she never put it all together and

shared it with legitimate cancer researchers around the world and the public.

Jim, it seems to me that only something like this would adequately provide a reason for

all the long term surveillance, stalking and hard core, heavy muscle psyops that have

been brought against her. This kind of intel work is expensive and no agency would spend

that much unless it was important. Another possibility is that that the intel work was

privatized to intel departments of a large corporations (this is commonly done these days

and makes deniability and cover much easier.

FURTHER REFLECTIONS:

Jim, part of any cure for many cancers would be first exposing the SV-40 problem world

wide, developing new cell lines for growing vaccines, and making clean vaccines, and

compensating victims through class action lawsuits, like the asbestos problem was taken

care of. (This thinking would quickly lead to the scientists and public wanting all

contaminants removed, especially the Thimerosal "preservative" (50% ethyl mercury, the

worst form of mercury, worse than methyl mercury.)

The other part would be developing the actual treatments to cure cancer, and this could

also in involve the use of good nutrition, nutritional supplements, etc. along with

advanced technology that Judyth perhaps could have been aware of or close to discovering

or would have discovered (or at least that is what intel thought, whether it was

privatized or run out of DOD or Langley or somewhere else inside the us govt.)

The other big issue that is related, is why did the "big boys" in the shadow govt decide

to stop trying to assassinate Castro and instead decide to murder JFK. Well, it is known

that the big boys that ran the shadow govt were into "playing all sides against the

middle", i.e., "perfidious albion" style. It is also known that someone at the highest

levels always tipped Castro off in advance of any plot to assassinate him by any means.

It is also known that he was a member of the council on foreign relations and it has

been rumored that the catholic church was protecting him.

I think the highest controllers in the shadow govt realized that their main concern

overall was "war profiteering" and that they were committed to controlled, limited police

action wars to obtain that, ie perpetual wars, and these would be done by agreement

between all parties, including the enemy. Look at the "Iron Mountain Report" to

understand their thinking. They wanted perpetual, limited war to sell war products, but

they did not want a nuclear WW3.

But in order to do this they had to somehow appease the US military high command, some of

whom were "rabid dogs" who wanted war with the soviets, even nuclear, and even a first

exchange following a staged, inside job supposed nuclear first strike by the soviets. So

the best solution for everyone including J. Edgar Mary and LBJ would be to assassinate

JFK using a military style triangulated hit done by Op-40 (many of which were Cubans

training to retake Cuba) and this Op-40 was a version of room 40 in England during WW2).

So the decision was made to abandon Ochsner's plan of assassinating Castro with the

cancer weapon. And the shadow govt had already come to the conclusion Castro could be

used for their own war profiteering purposes. He could be used to keep the cold war

scare going as means of obtaining plenty of defense funding from congress and the

American people. So Castro once again became our "bad boy" in Cuba, only this time he

was consorting with the Soviets.

[Kathleen Collins]

JUDYTH RESPONDS TO KATHLEEN COLLINS:

Judyth, do you remember when you were on Rich's forum and I had just joined, I mentioned that Marina had said, according to Norman Mailer, that Lee had body odor even when he was clean? There was always a smell. And you said that came from the chemicals the two of you were working with?

==NOT CHEMICALS.I SAID IT WAS THE ODOR OF CANCER ITSELF. WE COULD NOT ERADICATE IT. THIS WAS A VERY POWERFUL CANCER...SLICING OPEN MICE TO EXCISE TUMORS RELEASED A DISGUSTING ODOR, IT SEEMED TO SINK INTO OUR SKINS. I TOOK SHOWERS AT NIGHT BECAUSE OF IT. LEE IS REPORTED IN MARINA AND LEE TAKING LONG BATHS EVERY NIGHT, LATER IN THE SUMMER. HE ALSO SUFFERED FROM BURPING, AND NOSEBLEEDS...

Judyth, I really believe you said "chemicals" caused Oswald's B.O. But I do know that sometimes someone riddled with cancer and dying will have a smell.

I TOLD RICH DELLAROSA THAT I WAS QUITE ILL. HE SAID HE DID NOT BELIEVE ME. I HAD A HEAD INJURY AND BAD SHORT TERM MEMORY PROBLEMS. COULD NOT EVEN COOK FOR MYSELF SAFELY...WAS TRYING TO RECOVER. WAS ON PAINKILLERS AND STEROIDS THAT MADE ME GAIN WEIGHT (HAVE SINCE LOST 50 POUNDS). FOR LEE'S SAKE I TRIED TO ANSWER QUESTIONS BUT WAS IN PAIN. DELLAROSA SAID I WAS 'WELL ENOUGH' TO BE FILMED FOR NIGEL TURNER. MY EYES BLINK CONSTANTLY IN THAT FILM, AS I STRUGGLED WITH PAIN...I HAD BEEN IN MUCH BETTER CONDITION IN 2000 BEFORE BEING HIT TWICE BY VEHICLES IN DALLAS.

Were these vehicle hits attempts against your life?

========================

MY SISTER AND I HAD AN ACROBATIC ACT WE PUT ON FOR CHARITIES AND TO RAISE FUNDS FOR THE AMERICAN CANCER SOCIEY. IT WAS MY COSTUME, KATHY. IN THE BOOK THERE ARE MORE PHOTOS OF ME AND MY SISTER WITH LEOTARDS ON. MY DAD TOOK THE PICTURE.

JVB

Acrobatics or gymnastics?

Let me say I appreciate your answers and hope you will feel better soon.

Kathy C

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Brilliant! A FOIA request! And while you are at it,

also ask for everything they have on who took out

JFK, chemtrails, the theft of elections using voting

machines in 2000, 2002, 2004, and 2006, and, of

course, what really happened to the US on 9/11!

I can't imagine why no one thought of it before.

"All government projects generate paperwork."

Speculation.

To end such speculation I suggest a FOIA request for subjects:

Judyth Vary Baker cancer project

Oschner Cancer Project to kill Castro

Mary Sherman and David Ferrie cancer project

All government projects generate paperwork.

Speculation is not research.

Possible real reasons for the long term surveillance and Psyops of Judyth Vary?

If anyone wants to know you have my permission to tell them your "psyops expert" is now

partly retired, has a Ph.D. from a big ten University, is a Psychologist Emeritus who was

in private practice for over 35 years, retired his licenses in psychology and marriage &

family therapy recently; has worked with quite a few intel victims over the years and

some in the business too; has done various types of consulting which included consulting

to medical facilities and other businesses, managed several businesses over the years;

and did extensive participant observation research in these matters and others along the

way.

The real reasons for the long term surveillance and Psyops of Judyth Vary?

Jim, I re-though the whole Judyth Vary matter and had a new idea of what may be the real

reason she has been so harassed for so many years. I may be completely off base but

consider this. You may want to share this with Judyth and she what she thinks. This

came to me after many different evaluations and consideration of almost every possible

scenario based on what I know so far. Maybe once Judyth's book is out and I buy a copy

and read it I can figure a better explanation, but I doubt it.

I think Oshner selected Judyth as a young recruit because he found out about her

exceptional intelligence, her creativity and research gifts and because he felt certain

she would be highly loyal and also very deniable as a bioweapon expert if she was able to

succeed in development of that bioweapon to get Castro and other "enemies of the state"

as he expected her to be able to.

Was it his relative who got cancer from the SV-40 viral fragment contaminants in polio

vaccine or someone else close? Most likely a bifurcated agenda was developed for Judyth

sometime after her work for Oschner began. Perhaps he wanted her to help with the

development of the bio weapon as an assassination tool, but also developed an interest in

using her to assist him in finding a fix for the SV-40 problem, which he was perhaps very

concerned about once he understood its serious ramifications.

It is possible that Judyth actually discovered a cure without realizing it and either

told oschner or someone else close who talked. The company is known for using close

surveillance teams and informants close by on high priority cases, and this would likely

have been done with Oschner, Oswald, Mary Sherman, David Ferrie and others who were

associated.

Perhaps Oschner got the message when Mary Sherman was electrocuted at the lab. Maybe it

was met for him. Could he have decided to set aside any concerns for the SV-40 problems,

since he never took a stand publicly and exposed the horrendous seriousness of this

problem and he seemed to shifted into other matters. Perhaps he understood that he must

avoid the sv-40 matter and maybe he was told to just let it go, that it would be much

better for him if he steered clear of this, that perhaps it was being handled by other

researchers on a secret project, etc.

Could a major agreement between intel, big pharma and government planners emerged to

keep the monkey kidney cell lines that con tained SV-40 fragments growing into perpetuity

with these being used in the manufacture of almost all vaccines in order to further

eugenics, and keep big medicine and big pharma in the very lucrative business fighting

cancers caused by the SV-40 virus fragments, which has included massive amounts of money

spent on medical services and hospitalizations, production and sale of chemotherapy

agents which is also extremely lucrative?

Oschner's importance to the company appears to have diminished quickly as soon as there

was a change of plans, that JFK had to be hit to solve the LBJ/Fed Reserve/Vietnam/Cuban

"problems". Typically the company runs parallel programs to cover any and all

contingencies and selects the one that best fits their needs overall at a particular

time, based on how the total situation develops.

I think it was decided that Oschner's bioweapons program would be abandoned as a solution

to the JFK problem, sidetracked and taken over and absorbed by the DOD (Plum Island,

Dugway Proving Grounds, and eventually the Fort Detrick army biological weapons lab).

I think they likely saw Oschner as a possible security risk and had other plans for the

technology he developed regarding cancer as a bioweapon. Plus they decided to put him to

pasture in cancer society maintenance functions perhaps. I think the bioweapons issue

became so promising that it was decided that civilians like Oschner, even though he had

worked with intel for years, could not give the work enough special attention and would

balk at illegal, deadly covert experiments against large numbers of humans (which wa done

in Korea, Vietnam, and allegedly both Irag wars).

So, maybe Judyth discovered a cure for the SV-40 problem or else discovered an

application or necessary technology to be able to easily do that. I think she doesn't

realize the importance of what she did discover, and sinister forces have been assigned

to birdog her ever since Dealey Plaza to make sure she never put it all together and

shared it with legitimate cancer researchers around the world and the public.

Jim, it seems to me that only something like this would adequately provide a reason for

all the long term surveillance, stalking and hard core, heavy muscle psyops that have

been brought against her. This kind of intel work is expensive and no agency would spend

that much unless it was important. Another possibility is that that the intel work was

privatized to intel departments of a large corporations (this is commonly done these days

and makes deniability and cover much easier.

FURTHER REFLECTIONS:

Jim, part of any cure for many cancers would be first exposing the SV-40 problem world

wide, developing new cell lines for growing vaccines, and making clean vaccines, and

compensating victims through class action lawsuits, like the asbestos problem was taken

care of. (This thinking would quickly lead to the scientists and public wanting all

contaminants removed, especially the Thimerosal "preservative" (50% ethyl mercury, the

worst form of mercury, worse than methyl mercury.)

The other part would be developing the actual treatments to cure cancer, and this could

also in involve the use of good nutrition, nutritional supplements, etc. along with

advanced technology that Judyth perhaps could have been aware of or close to discovering

or would have discovered (or at least that is what intel thought, whether it was

privatized or run out of DOD or Langley or somewhere else inside the us govt.)

The other big issue that is related, is why did the "big boys" in the shadow govt decide

to stop trying to assassinate Castro and instead decide to murder JFK. Well, it is known

that the big boys that ran the shadow govt were into "playing all sides against the

middle", i.e., "perfidious albion" style. It is also known that someone at the highest

levels always tipped Castro off in advance of any plot to assassinate him by any means.

It is also known that he was a member of the council on foreign relations and it has

been rumored that the catholic church was protecting him.

I think the highest controllers in the shadow govt realized that their main concern

overall was "war profiteering" and that they were committed to controlled, limited police

action wars to obtain that, ie perpetual wars, and these would be done by agreement

between all parties, including the enemy. Look at the "Iron Mountain Report" to

understand their thinking. They wanted perpetual, limited war to sell war products, but

they did not want a nuclear WW3.

But in order to do this they had to somehow appease the US military high command, some of

whom were "rabid dogs" who wanted war with the soviets, even nuclear, and even a first

exchange following a staged, inside job supposed nuclear first strike by the soviets. So

the best solution for everyone including J. Edgar Mary and LBJ would be to assassinate

JFK using a military style triangulated hit done by Op-40 (many of which were Cubans

training to retake Cuba) and this Op-40 was a version of room 40 in England during WW2).

So the decision was made to abandon Ochsner's plan of assassinating Castro with the

cancer weapon. And the shadow govt had already come to the conclusion Castro could be

used for their own war profiteering purposes. He could be used to keep the cold war

scare going as means of obtaining plenty of defense funding from congress and the

American people. So Castro once again became our "bad boy" in Cuba, only this time he

was consorting with the Soviets.

Edited March 26, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Greg Burnham]

Brilliant! A FOIA request! And while you are at it,

also ask for everything they have on who took out

JFK, chemtrails, the theft of elections using voting

machines in 2000, 2002, 2004, and 2006, and, of

course, what really happened to the US on 9/11!

I can't imagine why no one thought of it before.

"All government projects generate paperwork."

ROFLMAO!

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH COMMENTS ON KATHY'S CATCH ON TWO PHOTOGRAPHS

[NOTE: I am going to verify with Judyth that I have this post right.]

WHAT HAPPENED HERE?

KATHY C. MADE SOME GOOD REMARKS ABOUT THE PHOTO TO THE

LEFT OF LEE OSWALD OF NOV. 22 –TAKEN WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER.

I DECIDED TO COPY A MORE PRISTINE PHOTO ON THE INTERNET.

IN FACT, IT IS FROM JACK WHITE’S COLLECTION – A PASTICHE THAT

INCLUDES A COUPLE OF PHOTOS, SOME OF WHICH I DO NOT ACCEPT

AND WANT TO KNOW THEIR TRUE PROVENANCE.

THE PHOTO SHOWN ON THE LEFT IS THE ONE JACK WHITE POSTED AT

THE EDUCATION FORUM.

1) IT HAS BEEN COPIED SO MUCH THAT MANY DETAILS THAT ARE ON

THE PHOTO TO LEFT ARE MISSING. MANY OF THESE DETAILS (WASHED

OUT) WOULD HAVE MATCHED TO THE NOV. 22 PHOTO OF LEE H. OSWALD.

THAT WAS SHOWN NEXT TO IT. THE DETAILS CAN BE SEEN JUST FINE

IN THE MORE PRISTINE PHOTO.

2) THIS PHOTO, OF ‘LEE’ TOO, IS TOO WIDE, AGAIN BY ABOUT 10% --

BUT CURIOUSLY, THIS TIME THE EXTRA WIDTH BEGINS JUST WHERE THE

‘LINE’ IS SHOWN (MUCH MORE CLEARLY, FOR SOME REASON, IN PHOTO

TO THE LEFT)…WHERE THIS LINE, IN FACT, SHOULD HAVE FADED OUT MORE,

AS DID OTHER DETAILS. INSTEAD, THIS LINE IS STRONGER. AND NOT ONE

BUT TWO LINES ARE VISIBLE.

3) THE TRULY DISTURBING THING IS THAT ONLY A SECTION OF THIS PHOTO

HAS BEEN WIDENED — AN AREA EXTENDING APPROXIMATELY AT THE JUNCTION

WHERE EARS ATTACH AT THE TOP OF THE EARS TO THE HEAD, AND JUST BELOW

THE LINE OF THE LOWER LIP, CENTER. THE DISTORTION ENHANCES THE WIDTH

OF THE FACE IN JUST THIS AREA, MAKING ONLY HIS PART OF THE FACE MARKEDLY

WIDER THAN THE ORIGINAL PRISTINE PHOTO.

THE DIFFERENCE CAN BE SEEN BY THE UNAIDED EYE.

THE HUMAN EYE SCANS THIS LENGTH DIFFERENCE AUTOMATICALLY.

A LONGER DISTANCE RADICALLY CHANGES IDENTIFICATION FACTORS

FOR PEOPLE.

4) TAKE A RULER AND SEE FOR YOURSELF. IT’S AMAZING, ACTUALLY.

5) THIS KIND OF DISTORTION COULD NOT BE MADE UNDER A SCANNER,

OR BY PHOTOS REPHOTOGRAPHED TOO MANY TIMES. THE DISORTION IS

ACROSS ONLY A CERTAIN AREA — NOT THE WHOLE PHOTO — WHICH IS A

PHOTOSHOP EFFECT.

THE CHANGES FROM THE PRISTINE PHOTO ARE SO EXTREME THAT THE PHOTO

JACK SUPPLIED SHOULD BE DISCARDED AS HOPELESSLY DISTORTED FOR ID

PURPOSES.

6) I HAVE NOW SEEN THREE INSTANCES OF DISTORTED OR MISREPRESENTED

PHOTOS:

1) THE FEET OF MARGUERITE NOT LINED UP PROPERLY TO ACCOUNT FOR

WEARING HEELS IN ONE PHOTO AND FLOPPY SLIPPERS IN THE OTHER…

IN ADDITION, A STATEMENT SAYING BOTH WERE TAKEN IN 1947 WAS NOT

CORRECT. THE WOMAN ON THE LEFT ON THE ORIGINAL DUAL PASTICHE WAS

MARGUERITE SHORLY AFTER NOV. 22, 1963.

2) THE NOV. 22 PHOTO OF LEE WAS DISTORTED 10% -- WHICH MADE HIS FACE

LOOK TOO FAT AND THUS DID NOT MATCH THE PHOTO HERE AT UPPER RIGHT.

WHEN CORRECTED, THERE WAS A BETTER MATCH…THEN KATHY POINTED OUT THE

ODDITIES OF THE PHOTO ON THE UPPER LEFT.

3) SURE ENOUGH, SHE WAS RIGHT. THE LINE SHOLD HAVE BEEN FADED OUT.

IT’S ALMOST AS IF SOMEBODY CUT THE PHOTO THERE AND BLEW THAT PART

UP AND THEN CONNECED IT AGAIN, USING PHOTOSHOP OR A LITERAL PRINTOUT

THAT WAS CUT.

THAT MAY NOT BE EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED, BUT SOMETHING HAPPENED TO IT.

THE PHOTO AT THE UPPER LEFT, HERE, HAS BEEN DISORTED IN A VERY PARTICULAR

SECTION. WHEN CORRECTED (BY REMOVING THE EXTRA WIDTH OF THE DISTORTED

SECTION), HOWEVER, IT THEN MATCHES THE PRISTINE PHOTO’S SECTION.

7) PRINT THIS OUT 3 TIMES, CUT OUT THE PHOTOS, REMOVE THE EXTRA LIP AMOUNT

(USE RULER) AND THEN THE FEAURES OF BOTH PHOTOS LINE UP JUST FINE.

8) WHAT HAPPENED TO THE FADED-OUT EDUCATION FORUM PHOTO THAT IT HAS

SIGNIFICANT DISTORTION IN A KEY FACIAL I.D. AREA, FORENSICALLY SPEAKING?

NOW I HAVE RESERVATIONS ABOUT THE PROVENANCE AND HANDLING OF THESE

PHOTOS.

WHERE DID THEY COME FROM?

WHY ARE THEY DIFFERENT FROM EARLIER, CLEARER PHOTOS?

WHO GAVE THEM TO JACK WHITE, OR TO JOHN ARMSTRONG?

JVB

The photo on the left, in my very humble opinion, has been fooled with. The line right under the eyes tells me it's been tampered with. This is a fake picture. I believe the weight on the face is contrived, as is the hair. This is not Lee Oswald, imo.

Kathy C

Edited March 28, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Kathleen Collins]

The other big issue that is related, is why did the "big boys" in the shadow govt decide

to stop trying to assassinate Castro and instead decide to murder JFK. Well, it is known

that the big boys that ran the shadow govt were into "playing all sides against the

middle", i.e., "perfidious albion" style. It is also known that someone at the highest

levels always tipped Castro off in advance of any plot to assassinate him by any means.

It is also known that he was a member of the council on foreign relations and it has

been rumored that the catholic church was protecting him.

Thank you for bringing this out. The Catholic Church wanted us in Viet Nam. Kennedy didn't.

Kathy C

[Jack White]

I was invited to Marguerite's home, and spent about two hours with her. Regardless of the uninformed

opinions expressed here by persons who do not know. Marguerite (the historical one) was VERY SHORT,

and rather rotund. I would estimate her height between 5 feet and 5 feet two inches.

Attached is a photo of her at the LHO funeral with Robert and Marina. Marina is very short, about 5 foot

two inches. Compare the heights of Marina and Marguerite. They are approximately the same height.

The Marguerite who worked at Paul's Shoe Store was much taller, about 5 foot seven inches.

Jack

[Jack White]

Short.

[Mike Williams]

:ice

Now its getting interesting.

[Jack White]

In my opinion, the Marines sometime substituted photos of Robert Oswald for Lee Oswald.

Here is an example.

Jack

[Jack White]

I wonder whether JVB can identify any of these men as her lover.

Jack

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH COMMENTS ABOUT DAVID LIFTON:

[NOTE: As a point of logic, when there is a conflict between two reports,

they cannot both be true but they could both be false. It appears to be

the case that David Lifton has confounded the date of Oswald's arrival in

New Orleans on April 25th, when his aunt confirms that he was virtually

without appropriate clothing for interviews, and the next day, April 26th,

when Judyth and Lee met before he acquired the nicer clothing he wore

to the interview, where his appearance was described by records which

he (Lifton) appears to have misunderstood, just as he appears to have

confounded the village of Kankun with the city of Cancun, in that case,

no doubt, because they pronounced the same, one in a set of blunders.]

SEE MY COMMENTS BELOW, RE LIFTON....INSIDE HIS MESSAGE BELOW...THE

ATTACHED SHOWS WHAT CLOTHING LEE HAD WITH HIM. HIS AUNT WAS

SPECIFIC ABOUT THE FACT THAT LEE DID NOT HAVE A SUIT AND THAT SHE

DID NOT KNOW HOW HE COULD LOOK PRESENTABLE JOB HUNTING WITHOUT

ONE. THE DESCRIPTION IS IMMEDIATELY AFTER LEE HAD ARRIVED IN NEW

ORLEANS, WHICH WAS APRIL 25 -- NOT APRIL 26, AS LIFTON ERRONEOUSLY

REPORTS.

I HAVE ALREADY STATED TO THIS FORUM THAT I HAD READ NORMAN MAILER'S

DISGUSTING BOOK, AND MARINA AND LEE, WHICH ARE SKEWED ACCOUNTS,

AS MY SOLE EXPOSURE BEFORE JAN. 2000, WHEN CONWAY GAVE ME A LANCER

NEWSLETTER.

I DID NOT KNOW LANCER EVEN EXISTED UNTIL SHE TOLD ME ABOUT IT. SHE

(CONWAY) SHOULD BE HONEST ENOUGH TO ADMIT THAT IF SHE WERE ASKED.

I HAD BEEN, BY THEN, BEEN TALKING TO "60 MINUTES" INVESTIGATORS FOR A

TOTAL OF OVER ONE HUNDRED HOURS OF GRILLING, AS NONE OF YOU HAVE

EVER EXPERIENCED. AFTER LIFTON QUESTIONED ME QUITE A BIT ABOUT HOW

"60 MINUTES" WAS TREATING ME AND RATHER SCORNED HE FACT THAT I HAD

FLOWN THERE "CABIN CLASS", "60 MINUTES" NEXT FLEW ME IN TO NEW YORK

FIRST CLASS. WISH I'D TOLD THEM MORE ABOUT LIFTON, BUT I NEVER HEARD

FROM LIFTON AGAIN.

AFTER A SINGLE CONVERSATION, HE TOLD McADAMS I WAS A 'FANTASIST' AND

THAT I HAD CLAIMED I KNEW--AND LEE KNEW--LEE'S HANDLER'S REAL NAME.

AS I SHOWED EVERYONE HERE RECENTLY, LIFTON'S CLAIM WAS BASED ON HIS

JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS.

I CLEARLY SHOWED THAT THE WAY HE HAD WORDED THE QUESTIONS AND HIS

CONCLUSIONS WERE ABSOLUTELY FAULTY AND MISLEADING.

I DO HOPE THAT DIALOGUE AND MY REPLY WILL BE POSTED AGAIN.

I NOTICE THAT MR. LIFTON DOES NOT BRING UP THIS OBJECTION OF HIS NOW.

HE GOES ON TO A BRAND NEW OBJECTION THAT IS JUST AS SPECIOUS.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE TO SEE A LITTLE GRACIOUSNESS AND MAYBE HIS

SAYING HE HAD BEEN WRONG. INSTEAD, HE PREFERS TO ATTACK AGAIN.

HERE ARE SOME ELEMENTARY POINTS THAT DAVID LIFTON DOES NOT UNDERSTAND:

1) LEE OSWALD ARRIVED ON APRIL 25, NOT APRIL 26--LIFTON HAS THE WRONG DATE.

THIS IS HOW HE BEGINS HIS 'INVESTIGATION.'

2) LEE'S AUNT MURRET SAW LEE'S CLOTHING SOON AFTER HE HAD MOVED TO NEW

ORLEANS. THE TIMELINE USED BY MCADAMS, ETC. SAYS LEE MOVED IN WITH HIS AUNT

AND UNCLE ON APRIL 25. THIS IS IN ERROR. IN HER TESTIMONY AND ELSEWHERE,

YOU FIND THAT LEE MOVED IN WITH THEM A FEW DAYS LATER. I GOT GRILLED ON

THAT BY "60 MINUTES" AND THEY LOOKED AND FOUND LEE HAD BEEN AT THE YMCA

FOR SEVERAL DAYS FIRST, JUST AS I SAID. LEE WAS AT THE YMCA AND I WAS AT

THE YWCA, SO THIS WAS EASY FOR ME TO REMEMBER AND HAS NOTHING AT ALL

TO DO WITH "INSERTING" MYSELF INTO THE RECORD.

THE WAY THESE PEOPLE GET YOU:

A) IF IT IS IN THE RECORD, THEN YOU INSERTED YOURSELF

IF IT IS NOT IN THE RECORD, YOU ARE LYING

GO AHEAD AND DESTROY THE WITNESS, AND DO NOT LET ME EVER GET A CHANCE

TO PRESENT MORE INFORMATION TO YOU, BUT BEFORE YOU PULL THE TRIGGER,

READ AGAIN LIFTON'S FAULTY ANALYSIS OF WHAT HE THOUGHT I SAID ABOUT

"KNOWING THE NAME" OF LEE'S HANDLER--DESPITE MY STATEMENTS AT ALL TIMES

TO THE CONTRARY OF WHAT HE REPORTED.

THIS MAN SPOKE TO ME JUST ONE TIME -- 20% OF IT WAS ABOUT "60 MINUTES"

INVESTIGATION, ETC -- AND HE HAS NOT CONTACTED ME AGAIN FOR OVER A

DECADE. HE DID, HOWEVER, LINK MY NAME WITH OSAMA BIN LADEN AFTER 9/11,

WHICH CAUSED ME TO BE HOUNDED BY CRAZY CREEPS, AND MY PHONE TAPPED.

HE SAID IT WAS JUST A JOKE.

I HAD TO LIVE WITH THE RESULTS.

HE ALSO POSTED OTHER 'JOKES.'

SCROLL DOWN TO SEE MY FURTHER RESPONSE BELOW, IN LIFTON'S MATERIAL,

AS POSTED.

JVB

JUDYTH RESPONDS TO DAVID LIFTON'S POST:

David Lifton

Today, 05:11 AM

Post #647

Experienced Member

Group: Members

Posts: 78

Joined: 24-May 06

Member No.: 4784

Jack,

When I first spoke with Judyth in March, 2000,

=="FIRST SPOKE" ? THIS WAS THE ONLY TIME LIFTON EVER 'SPOKE' WITH ME.

IT WAS A TELEPHONE CONVERSATION THAT HE ILLEGALLY TAPED, A FELONY IN

CALIFORNIA, SINCE HE DID NOT TELL ME. HE DESCRIBED THE CONVERSATION

TO JOHN McADAMS, TO WHOM HE SENT MATERIAL ABOUT ME ALL THE TIME --

AT VARYING TIME LENGTHS-- 30 MINUTES, 2 HOURS, I 1/2 HOURS -- WHICH

CLUED MARTIN SHACKELFORD WHO ALSO POSTED THERE THAT HE HAD TAPED IT.

WORSE, IT ALSO CLUED US THAT IF HE DESCRIBED IT WITH DIFFERENT LENGTHS,

DID HE HAVE THREE DIFFERENT VERSIONS? DID THAT MEAN HE COULD EDIT IT TO

SAY ALMOST ANYTHING HE LIKED, SINCE HE MENTIONED DIFFERENT DURATIONS?

HE EXHIBITED HOSTILITY AND SCORN IMMEDIATELY AND NEVER CONTACTED ME

AGAIN. WAS THIS BECAUSE HIS BIOGRAPHY DID NOT MENTION ME? I AGREED

HE COULD CALL BECAUSE I WANTED HIS BOOK TO BE THE BEST ONE POSSIBLE,

AS I WAS TOLD BY CONWAY THAT HE HAD WORKED HARD ON LEE'S BIOGRAPHY.

SHACKELFORD CONFRONTED HIM ABOUT THE ILLEGAL TAPING AND MR. LIFTON

ADMITTED IT. BY THAT TIME MR. LIFTON HAD PUT OUT A BIG STORY THAT LEE

AND I KNEW LEE'S HANDLER'S REAL NAME.

I HAVE ALREADY REFUTED THAT ON THIS FORUM.

HE JUMPED TO CONCLUSIONS BECAUSE HE HAD NO RESPECT FOR ME, BASED ON

HIS CERTAINTY FROM THE BEGINNING HAT HE COULD NOT BE WRONG.

TODAY, HE IS JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS AGAIN.

I HAVE ALWAYS AND UNDEVIATINGLY STATED THAT LEE WAS 'SO CLEAN CUT" AND

"LOOKED SO NICE" THAT I ACCEPTED HIS OFFER TO WALK ME BACK TO THE "Y."

April 24-29, 1963 (Wednesday - Monday) - Oswald's whereabouts from Wednesday

afternoon until Monday are unknown except for Friday's appearance at the New Orleans

office of the Louisiana Employment Commission. (WC Vol 8, p. 135)

WHAT MR. LIFTON FAILED TO MENTION WAS THE TIME. NOR DID HE KNOW A THING

ABOUT LEE OSWALD'S SCHEDULE THAT DAY.

MY EARLIEST WRITING MENTIONS THAT AFTER MEETING LEE...WE HAD SAID GOODBYE

AND I WENT UPSTAIRS TO MY ROOM, SHARED WITH FOUR OTHER GIRLS, AT THE 'Y':

."..I went upstairs to lie down on my ugly little bed for awhile -- and to read Robert’s

two letters again. Later that day, I took a bus to Ochsner’s Clinic and filled out application

papers for my summer internship, writing in the “Y” as housing choice. The Clinic was

practically in the middle of nowhere: the last thing I wanted was a room at Brent House,

on Ochsner’s campus, with nothing but bland, expensive hospital food to eat. I’d eaten

way too much of that. The ‘Y’ was close to good, cheap restaurants -– plus movie

theatres, universities, and libraries.

There was other entertainment, too: that night, one of my stripper friends took me to

her club to watch her act. I got to go in the back to help with her hair, her costume, and

her make-up. She was part of a three-girl dance routine most of the night. From the side

door, I also got to watch as much of her solo act as I could bear."

APPARENTLY MR. LIFTON BELIEVES THAT LEE HAD SPENT ALL DAY AT THE EMPLOYMENT

AGENCY.

THE TRUE TIMELINE:

1) I AM WORKING A ROYAL CASTLE FROM 6:00-8:00 AM AND I AM AT THE POST OFFICE

BY 8:30.

2) APPROX. 8:30-8:45 I MET LEE OSWALD, WHO WAS DRESSED NEAT AND CLEAN, NOT

IN GRUBBY CLOTHES AT ALL--

3) HE WALKED ME TO THE "Y" -- HE SAID HE WAS LIVING AT THE "Y" FOR NOW BUT LATER

WOULD BE MOVING TO HIS UNCLE'S HOUSE...HE SAID HE HAD TO BORROW A WHITE SHIRT,

SAID NOTHING ABOUT A SUIT, BECAUSE HE HAD TO GO JOB-HUNTING.

4) AT NO LATER THAN 10:00 AM, WE FINISHED TALKING AND I WENT INSIDE THE "Y" TO

GET SOME REST.

THEN I REPORT THAT I WENT TO OCHSNER'S TO FILL IN APPLICATION PAPERS. I EVEN

REPORT ON WHAT HAPPENED THAT NIGHT.

DURING THAT SAME TIME PERIOD, LEE OSWALD HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO BORROW A SUIT,

ETC. HOW DO WE KNOW HE HAD TO BORROW ONE? I ATTACHED HIS AUNT'S TESTIMONY.

==NOTE: BY THE WAY, COMMON LOGIC TELLS YOU THAT LEE OSWALD WOULD NOT HAVE

STARTED JOB HUNTING THE SAME DAY HE ARRIVED IN NEW ORLEANS, APPEARING CRISP

AND NEAT IN A SUIT AFTER HIS LONG BUS RIDE FROM DALLAS.

I had the sense that she had carefully "studied the books" --i.e., the Warren Report, plus

Mailer, McMillan, perhaps the Ferrell chronologies, etc.--and was methodically "inserting

herself" into the record, wherever she could.

==I BELIEVE MR. LIFTON HAD THE SENSE THAT HIS BOOK WAS RUINED AND HE DECIDED I

COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE A BONA FIDE WITNESS AFTER ALL THAT TIME, SO HE DECIDED TO

DEEP-SIX ME RATHER THAN HAVE TO DELAY HIS BOOK. BUT I DID NOT GO AWAY. HE TRIED

HARD TO RUIN MY REPUTATION, AND McADAMS & CO PUBLISHED WHATEVER HE TOLD THEM.==

HE WAS WELL-ARMED WITH HIS TAPE RECORDER FOR HIS ONE AND ONLY CALL. THIS CALL

WAS MADE BEFORE MARCH, ACCORDING TO THE FACT THAT IN THE EMAIL BELOW,

I MENTION SOME TIME HAS GONE BY.

ON MARCH 18, 2000, I WROTE THIS TO xxxxxxxxx: [NAME TO BE GIVEN TO DR. FETZER]

Well, all I'd like to know...I would like to know his name.

I have to be careful. You mentioned David Lifton -- He talked to me for an hour, would not

ask me any questions, and I know you respect him, but he jumped to conclusions when I

said Lee knew the real name of his handler. (Phillips, also Bender/Droller). What he did not

understand, and did not take the time to inquire about, was that we searched diligently to

find out these names. We were ale to put two and two together by the 20th -- rather late,

I would say, in the game -- as to the positions and goals of some of these people. Lifton

simply told an associate I'd made a "fatal error."

My "fatal error" was believing that he would keep the information to himself, which he did

not, and that he would ask me if something bothered him. No, I had to find out second-

hand. There are several "outrageous" elements to what I have to say, but when all the

details are known, they make sense. For example, we first learned that Phillips was

involved when he showed up at Reily's. I saw Boatner's secretary and Bill [Monaghan]

talking together about "Phillips". I just heard it once, that's all I needed. The rest we

we figured out from his meeting in Ft. Worth, and then the disaster in Mexico City.

Believe me, if you knew the time constraints on the materials Lee had couriered there,

you would understand his real desperation. It was actually Hurricane Flora that ruined

everything -- they said -- an act of God forgotten in history, unless, like Lee and me,

so many lives had not depended on Castro's medical team in place around him--instead,

they were sent all over the island, and our big chance for getting penetration of these

materials into Cuba were delayed for too long.

I am pleased that you still have enough heart left in you to respond. That gives me

some hope that at least we can be friends. I do trust you--call it a gut instinct. I

sensed your anger and frustration.

All my friends are dead except six people--fortunately, two of these are on tape, one

on film. One is significant and known, has been out of sight for years. We, the women,

some of us, you see, have survived.

Anyway, if you will tell me who this person is, and if they are not prone to judge without

hearing me out, that is essential. It takes about twelve hours to explain all the details.

It take six hours to explain enough so you don't jump to conclusions. Liftton gave me

an hour, then only wanted to know when the book was coming out. It was a real burn

for me.

I mention this, since you mentioned Lifton, who then talked to Chapman. What a mess

-- that's the main reason I'm seeking a fair hearing, to balance this. I have half a dozen

persons, some surely known to you, who have thoroughly investigated -- and seen --

the information.

I am very pleased, again, that you've had enough heart to respond. Don't give up. I

am not a half-baked fool. The only stupid thing I've done, since back then, is to trust

Mr. Lifton.

Yours,

JV

"xxxxxxxxx" wrote back to me: [Again, I will supply the name to Dr. Fetzer]

Dear Judyth,

What can I say?

It wasn't so much that "it got to me." I was just tired of reading the same book over and

over again -- different titles, different authors, same dead-ends. Beating one's head

against the wall repeatedly may be less lethal than lifting it up and getting it blown off,

but it hurts nevertheless.

For what it's worth, I hope your story does get to someone who can do the appropriate

checks and give it all the attention it deserves. (Yes, I worded that carefully, as I've seen

scams before.) Would you mind if I passed your e-mails to me along to a researcher I

know (and trust) in this area? I won't do so without your permission. He hasn't written a

book himself, but I know he has been a researcher for others' books, and he is highly

regarded as an archivist in the case.

Let me know one way or another. If you say yes, I cannot guarantee he will contact you.

It's just the best I can do.

xxxxxxxxx

10:30 PM 3/18/00 -0600

==NOW I (JUDYTH) WILL CONTINUE WITH LIFTON'S STATEMENT==

Because she's very smart, and had assimilated so much data, the net result was to

project a sense of verisimilitude. Many buy into the resultant "story"; I did not.

==Again, if I'm intelligent, then I am a fraud. If I am stupid, then I could not have done

done the things that I had told him about. HE LEAVES NO ROOM FOR A REAL WITNESS.==

In that March, 2000 conversation, Judyth went through her narrative about how she

met Oswald at the post office, on day he arrived in New Orleans, which was 4/26/63.

[ERROR, Mr. Lifton] And in connection with that, Judyth told me how he was dressed

-- as an ordinary worker. Grubby work clothes, etc.

==I said he was clean-cut and looked so nice and neat that I allowed him to walk me

home. He wore a very neat, clean khaki shirt that later was damaged when he made

the training film. (We later used it and his equally worn but clean pants for a dog that

had newborn puppies).==

However, I had recently been studying the records and had assembled a New Orleans

chronology; [which was already in error beginning with day of arrival!] so I was in fact

aware of a contemporaneous New Orleans record stating how he was dressed that day.

As it turns out, on that day (April 26, 1963, the day Oswald went to the Louisiana

employment agency to seek work) the interviewer (one John Rachal, as noted in the

Warren Report) happened to make a record of how Oswald was dressed. He was in a

suit, dress shirt, and tie.

Being aware of this, I questioned Judyth carefully on this very point. Judyth insisted that

Oswald was dressed in grubby clothes and like an ordinary worker.

==Lifton did not look carefully enough into the record. i am a witness, and I know what

happened. Lee told me he was going to borrow a white shirt -- he did not mention a suit

-- perhaps his relatives generously added the suit? I later saw that Lee had his old dark

suit from the USSR, but for sure, he owned no white shirt or didn't have it with his stuff.

Now, Lee leaves me in the morning and has time to see his aunt and change clothes.==

Here is a logical time line:

April 25 -- Lee arrives around 11:00 AM from Dallas, checks into the YMCA, calls his

relatives, and they invite him over. I know he ate dinner that evening with David Ferrie.

Most of he day, he spends with his aunt and uncle and cousin, talking. It's been ten years,

after all.

A cousin, I think Marilyn, talked to hm the first day he was there. She was upset because

he said he was an atheist, and she yelled at him. I remember that from talking to Lee

about his aunt and uncle. They were Catholics and I had wanted to become a nun and

religion was one of our favorite topics. So to all their chronology questions at "60 Minutes",

without access to a calendar -- and he same for Nigel Turner -- I would go through some

days for all 24 hours.

So on the 25th, I have since learned his aunt is on record noticing he has very few clothes.

Lee actually had some boxes and sea bags, etc. but no nice clothes with him for job hunting.

His aunt wants him to be nicely dressed. I assume she offered to help and told him to come

back next day, she by then would have nice shirt, etc., for Lee.

April 26 -- We meet, Lee mentions he is going to have to leave to pick up a white shirt from

his aunt's. I do not expect to see Lee H. Oswald again (but he sees me again on the 27th).

He had to dress in old clothes because that is all he had with him, according to his own aunt,

in testimony. He could not walk naked to his aunt's house.

His aunt in later testimony says, after a few days, Lee moves in with them. She describes in

detail such things as he only has one pair of shoes. She obviously loved him and cared about

him to notice such details. I only saw the USSR suit -- but Lee dressed at his aunt's place

and then he goes to the employment agency.

BUT LIFTON ONLY SEES LEE DRESSED IN OLD CLOTHES AND THEREFORE CONCLUDES THAT

I MADE IT UP! HE JUMPED TO CONCLUSIONS -- AGAIN! IN FACT, I BELIEVE WE HAVE NOW

STRENGTHENED MY STATEMENT THAT LEE OSWALD WAS WEARING OLD CLOTHES -- BUT

LIFTON THE RESEARCHER, WITH HIS YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, DID NOT CATCH THAT. NOW

I AM SUPPOSED TO HAVE DONE ALL THAT RESEARCH A DECADE AGO, WHEN MY CHILDREN

TESTIFY I NEVER, EVER DID ANY SUCH THING. YET I GET IT RIGHT AND LIFTON WRONG.

LIFTON THOUGHT IT OUT THIS WAY:

LEE OSWALD, THE SAME DAY HE ARRIVED IN TOWN WENT -- NEAT AND TIDY AFTER HIS

LONG RIDE FROM DALLAS -- DRESSED TO KILL, WITH A SUIT ON, AND GOES STRAIGHT TO

THE EMPLOYMENT AGENCY. LIFTON'S ERROR OF A WHOLE DAY TELLS ME THAT HE ISN'T

THINKING AS WELL AS HE USUALLY DOES -- HE IS FACING A REAL WITNESS HE DOES NOT

WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE -- SO HE REASONS TO HIMSELF, "NO, NO! SHE CAN'T BE REAL!

IT RUINS MY BOOK!" THE PROBLEM HE HAS -- WHICH I HAVE ALSO FACED WITH OTHER

RESEARCHERS -- IS WELL DESCRIBED BY COGNITIVE DISSONANCE THEORY.

That, among other things, convinced me that Judyth was not credible.

==WELL, MR. LISTON, ALL YOU HAVE DONE IS CONVINCED ME THAT YOU JUMPED TO YET

ANOTHER FALSE CONCLUSION. AS A WITNESS, I AM IN A SOMEWHAT BETTER POSITION

THAN YOU ARE, BECAUSE I WAS HERE. YOU NEVER EVEN MET LEE OSWALD. HE WAS NO

SAINT, BUT HE WAS NOT THE WRETCH HE WAS MADE OUT TO BE.

From Rachal Deposition Exhibit (Volume 21, p. 283): "will relocate. . Neat. Suit. Tie. Polite."

From Rachal's Warren Commission affidavit: "I recall that Oswald was neatly dressed, with a

suit, dress shirt, and tie, on the occasion of our initial interview." (Rachel Affidavit; 11 WCH 475).

No doubt Judyth, upon learning of this "problem," will now perhaps claim that Oswald changed

his clothes from a "suit, dress shirt, and tie" at the time of his 4/26/63 interview, to the work

clothes he was wearing at the post office. But when and where would he do that?

==YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS, MR. LIFTON, BECAUSE YOU DID NOT INTERVIEW ME. IF YOU

HAD, YOU WOULD HAVE LEARNED THAT WE MET VERY EARLY ON THE 26TH. WHATEVER ELSE

TRANSPIRED, LEE'S AUNT TELLS US HAT HE HAD NO SUITABLE (GEE, A PUN!) CLOTHES. IT IS

WHOLLY LOGICAL THAT HE COULD NOT WALK NAKED FROM THE "Y"...DO NOT GO BY McADAMS'

WARPED TIME LINE THAT HAS LEE OSWALD MOVING INTO THE MURRET HOME ON THE 25TH.

HIS AUNT MENTIONS IT WAS SEVERAL DAYS LATER. THAT MEANS IT IS ENTIRELY LOGICAL THAT

LEE, SO EARLY IN THE MORNING, HAD YET TO ACQUIRE SUITABLE CLOTHING BUT DID LATER.==

I have no interest in pursuing this matter anymore--

==OF COURSE NOT. YOU ARE NOW ON RECORD AS HAVING MADE ONE TIME LINE ERROR AND

WITH FALSE ASSUMPTIONS, BECAUSE YOU N-E-V--E-R HAD AN INTEREST IN INTERVIEWING ME

EXCEPT TO DISCARD ME. IS THIS THE WAY THAT YOU WANT TO BE REMEMBERED?==

except to note that I had this experience with Judyth in March, 2000, and this issue of how

Oswald was dressed on 4/26/63 occurred in the same conversation in which Judyth talked

about how Oswald was supposedly intending to meet her in Cancun (which did not exist at the time).

[NOTE: One of the hazards of dropping into a thread with a post like this one is that the author

runs the risk of having missed important rebuttals that may have intervened in the meanwhile.

In this case, the "Cancun/Kankun" blunder, where the village of Kankun existed long before the

area was developed and came to be known as "Cancun" was addressed in post #40 on page 3.]

==MR. LIFTON, I ENDED UP WITH A DEGREE IN ANTHROPOLOGY. LEE AND I BOTH WANTED TO

VISIT ARCHEOLOGICAL RUINS AND PRIMITIVE VILLAGES NEARBY, ONE OF WHICH WAS CALLED

KANKUN AND HAD BEEN STUDIED IN THE EARLY 60'S. I POINTED OUT THAT AREA ON A MAP TO

MY AGENT. [THIS HAS BEEN EXPLAINED MANY TIMES, INCLUDING EARLIER ON THIS THREAD.]

NEAR CHICHEN-IZA WAS TO BE OUR FIRST MEETING PLACE AFTER HE WAS ABLE TO LEAVE DALLAS.

THE ENTIRE AREA WAS CALLED KANKUN, WHICH IS THE ORIGIN OF THE NAME OF THE RESORT CITY.]

LEE SAID WE WOULD GO TO A FINE HOTEL IN THAT AREA, WHICH I WONDERED MIGHT BE A JOKE

-- HE JOKED A LOT -- AS I ENVISIONED THE PRIMITIVE VILLAGE! BUT TO MY SURPRISE, RIGHT AT

CHICHEN-ITZA IS THE MAYALAND HOTEL, WHICH HAS BEEN THERE SINCE THE 1930'S. I VISITED IT

AGAIN FOUR YEARS AGO AND TOLD THE PROPRIETORS ABOUT LEE'S PLAN. IT IS A 5-STAR HOTEL.

FOR ALMOST A DECADE WE HAVE TOLD YOU AGAIN AND AGAIN--PLATZMAN TOLD YOU, MARTIN

SHACKELFORD TOLD YOU, AND SO DID I -- THAT MY AGENT REWROTE MY BOOK TO BECOME ITS

CO-AUTHOR , HE WROTE IT AS 'CANCUN' AND WE DIDN'T THINK IT MATTERED UNTIL YOU AND

McADAMS & CO. HAD A HISSY-FIT, SAYING THAT WAS AN ANACHRONISM.

WHEN I LEARNED THAT THE SPELLING WAS NOW IMPORTANT TO MY DETRACTORS, I BROUGHT OUT

THE JOURNAL REFERENCE TO KANKUN AS A VILLAGE BY THAT NAME, TO SAY NOTHING THAT THE

WHOLE AREA IS CALLED THAT -- "KANKUN" -- BUT YOU HEARD "CANCUN" AND INSIST I DID NOT

MEAN "KANKUN".

ON THE BASIS OF THIS INFERENCE, YOUR FALSE TIME LINE ABOUT LEE'S SUIT, AND YOUR EQUALLY

FALSE ASSUMPTION THAT LEE AND I SAID WE KNEW WHO HIS HANDLER WAS, WHEN WE SAID NO

SUCH THING, YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED NOTHING EXCEPT YOUR HOSTILITY AND UNFAIRNESS.

"KANKUN, SPELLED WITH K'S, MEANS "BASKET OF SNAKES" FOR THE WHOLE AREA WAS A JUNGLE,

AND SNAKE-INFESTED. NO WONDER IT WAS HARD FOR ME TO BELIEVE THAT LEE REALLY MEANT

WE WOULD GO TO A 'FINE HOTEL' THERE.

MR. LIFTON DOES NOT MENTION THAT HE AND THE NEWSGROUP INSISTED HERE WERE NO "FINE

HOTELS" IN THAT JUNGLE. THIS WAS ONE MORE "PROOF" THAT I "HAD MADE IT UP." WHEN HE

WAS EVENTUALLY FORCED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE EXISTENCE OF MAYALAND HOTEL, HE STILL

DOES NOT ADMIT TO YOU THAT A FINE HOTEL ACTUALLY HAD EXISTED IN THAT AREA IN 1963.

HE ONLY TELLS YOU TO FOCUS ON "CANCUN" AS HE HEARD IT OVER THE PHONE. I WAS CRUCIFIED

OVER THAT ISSUE UNTIL DEB BERT AND OTHERS NOTED THAT MAYALAND WAS BUILT RIGHT THERE

AT CHICHEN-IZA, WHERE I SAID LEE AND I WOULD MEET. LOOK AT A MAP AND POINT YOUR FINGER

THERE -- THE OLD MAPS WE LOOKED AT SAID "KANKUN", THE NEW ONES SAY THE CITY "CANCUN".

==IT MAKES ME WONDER HOW MANY TIMES I MUST DISPROVE FALSE ALLEGATIONS OVER AGAIN==

So in the same conversation in which she referred to a (then) non-existent destination for their

meeting, she also had she also had Oswald's clothing wrong--at least "wrong" insofar as these

Louisiana records attest; as to what he was known to be wearing on that specific day: April 26, 1963.

DSL

==WHICH I SHALL ASSUME I HAVE NOW EXPLAINED IS BASED UPON BLUNDERS ABOUT THE DATE

ON WHICH HE ARRIVED IN NEW ORLEANS, HIS AUNT'S TESTIMONY ABOUT HIS LACK OF SUITABLE

CLOTHING, AND THE DATE ON WHICH WE MET AND HE LATER APPLIED FOR EMPLOYMENT, DRESSED

AS HE HAS BEEN DESCRIBED IN THE "LOUISIANA RECORDS" UPON WHICH MR. LIFTON DEPENDS.==

[NOTE: I will confirm with Judyth that I have presented this complex material as she has intended.]

Jack,

When I first spoke with Judyth in March, 2000, I had the sense that she had carefully "studied the books" --i.e., the Warren Report, plus Mailer, McMillan, perhaps the Ferrell chronologies, etc.--and was methodically "inserting herself" into the record, wherever she could.

Because she's very smart, and had assimilated so much data, the net result was to project a sense of verisimilitude. Many buy into the resultant "story"; I did not.

In that March, 2000 conversation, Judyth went through her narrative about how she met Oswald at the post office, on day he arrived in New Orleans, which was 4/26/63. And in connection with that, Judyth told me how he was dressed--as an ordinary worker. Grubby work clothes, etc.

However, I had recently been studying the records and had assembled a New Orleans chronology; so I was in fact aware of a contemporaneous New Orleans record stating how he was dressed that day.

As it turns out, on that day (April 26, 1963, the day Oswald went to the Louisiana employment agency to seek work) the interviewer (one John Rachal, as noted in the Warren Report) happened to make a record of how Oswald was dressed. He was in a suit, dress shirt, and tie.

Being aware of this, I questioned Judyth carefully on this very point. Judyth insisted that Oswald was dressed in grubby clothes and like an ordinary worker.

That, among other things, convinced me that Judyth was not credible.

From Rachal Deposition Exhibit (Volume 21, p. 283): "will relocate. . Neat. Suit. Tie. Polite." From Rachal's Warren Commission affidavit: "I recall that Oswald was neatly dressed, with a suit, dress shirt, and tie, on the occasion of our initial interview." (Rachel Affidavit; 11 WCH 475).

No doubt Judyth, upon learning of this "problem," will now perhaps claim that Oswald changed his clothes from a "suit, dress shirt, and tie" at the time of his 4/26/63 interview, to the work clothes he was wearing at the post office. But when and where would he do that?

I have no interest in pursuing this matter anymore--except to note that I had this experience with Judyth in March, 2000, and this issue of how Oswald was dressed on 4/26/63 occurred in the same conversation in which Judyth talked about how Oswald was supposedly intending to meet her in Cancun (which did not exist at the time). So in the same conversation in which she referred to a (then) non-existent destination for their meeting, she also had she also had Oswald's clothing wrong--at least "wrong" insofar as these Louisiana records attest;as to what he was known to be wearing on that specific day: April 26, 1963.

DSL

Edited March 27, 2010 by James H. Fetzer