Ian Lloyd Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Linda, You should try different spellings - there is a Dallas County record of an Ochus (rather than Occhus) Campbell marrying Mary E. Kupstis in 1984, when Campbell was 75 and Mary was 43! It says Campbell was born in 1909. I'm using a tablet at the moment and don't know how to copy links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) Linda, You should try different spellings - there is a Dallas County record of an Ochus (rather than Occhus) Campbell marrying Mary E. Kupstis in 1984, when Campbell was 75 and Mary was 43! It says Campbell was born in 1909. I'm using a tablet at the moment and don't know how to copy links. Ian, That's him. I remember the name "Mary Kupstis" from the research I was doing on Campbell a couple of months ago. I seem to remember his birth year's being 1909, as well. Born in Oklahoma as I recall. One year after it became a state. Can you cut and paste the web address here? --Tommy Edit: Upon further review, the call on the field is reversed. He was born on November 26, 1908. Edited September 27, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 (edited) Tommy said: Linda,Maybe "Big Lumbering Guy" is standing to the left of the "Two Khaki Guys" in the top photo of post # 139.--Tommy PSThe guy labeled "Campbell?" in this Wiegman frame seems to be wearing a coat (you can see a "sliver" of it on his left side) and trousers which are the same color. Like a suit. Really? If it's the guy i see to the left of the "Khaki Guys" - he is short and fat. "Lumbering man" is very tall and big (like the guy I think is OV Campbell) - - a little husky but not rotund like the guy to the left of the Khaki Guys. There is another big tall guy farther to the rt (east) of Truly in this photo Bell photo - what do you think about him? As for the "sliver" of suit on Campbell - I guess i imagined that to be his dark tie or a scarf hanging down the middle. If that's a sliver of his suit .... what is all that white stuff? Is there someone standing there in white that makes it look like he has a white or lt. shirt or jacket on? . I'm lost on the sliver part.... Linda, I'm not talking about where his tie might be. In the Wiegman frame you posted, "Campbell?" is wearing a dress-up coat or jacket, only a small portion of which is visible covering his left shoulder and side because the frame's edge prevents us from seeing more of said coat or jacket. I think your "Campbell?" in that Wiegman frame is the same guy that's in the small yellow rectangle, above, (look at how much of his shirt is showing in both frames) and that he's also possibly the guy who waved Baker up the steps in Couch Darnell. I'm going back to the idea that "Big Lumbering Guy" might have been big Jack Dougherty, in spite of the fact that he testified that he was inside the TSBD at the time. Or who knows? Maybe Jack was up on the sixth floor, planting evidence. --Tommy Tommy...OK!!!! Now I think i finally "see" what you mean about all that white stuff in our original Campbell in Wiegman - when you showed how he is the SAME BIG GUY in the Bell photo (the guy i have the yellow rectangle around him) with his suit jacket unbuttoned and open, and a large area of his torso/white shirt/dark tie exposed. So that is what i'm seeing in our Wiegman "Campbell" (and so the dark area down his middle must be the dark tie as i thought). So we agree - the same big tall guy next to Truly in the Truly Group in WIEGMAN, that I picked out as Campbell being the "Big Lumbering Guy" and whom we have agreed for some time now was Campbell - IS indeed, (still) Campbell! Right? BUT at this point you think, IN DARNELL that same big guy is NOT the "Big Lumbering Guy" I had posited a few wks ago was Campbell wandering bk to the Depository after the shots.......but rather, Campbell has moved up to the steps and is instead the "Waving Man" waving Baker up the steps. Right? Just want to make sure we are on the same page.... So, I take it we still agree, on the identification of Campbell - he's the big, tall guy w/o glasses wearing a dark (might be brown) suit, standing next to Truly in Wiegman (and Bell). Correct? Gotchya! [...] Linda, Yes. Yes. Yes. And keep up the good work! --Tommy PS Sheriff's Detective Roger Craig can be seen in Skaggs 16, talking to Sheriff's Investigator Lummie Lewis (I believe). Behind the red light on the car's roof. Could that be big O.V. Campbell kinda leaning against the car? Edited September 28, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Lloyd Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Linda, You should try different spellings - there is a Dallas County record of an Ochus (rather than Occhus) Campbell marrying Mary E. Kupstis in 1984, when Campbell was 75 and Mary was 43! It says Campbell was born in 1909. I'm using a tablet at the moment and don't know how to copy links. Ian, That's him. I remember the name "Mary Kupstis" from the research I was doing on Campbell a couple of months ago. I seem to remember his birth year's being 1909, as well. Born in Oklahoma as I recall. One year after it became a state. Can you cut and paste the web address here? --Tommy Edit: Upon further review, the call on the field is reversed. He was born on November 26, 1908. Hi Tommy, There are a few sites that give this information - yes, born Oklahoma 26th November 1908 is what I've found as well. I thought that there may be another way to find a photo of him using the Mary E. Kupstis route perhaps? I've not succeeded yet but others may be better at those kind of searches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 A search on Mary Kupstis Campbell apparently turned up her mother's obit--although just a partial, it seems--from the Chicago Tribune: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2000-08-22/news/0008220105_1_love-and-care-father-tom-memorial-services In case the link doesn't work, here's the text: "August 22 2000 June M. Kupstis, nee Helfritch, age 88, passed away August 10, formerly of Des Plaines, devoted wife of Stephen; loving mother of Paul, the late Bruce, Wayne and Mary Beth Campbell, nee Kupstis; devoted grandmother of 11; great-grandmother of 18. A life of sacrifice, love and care given to family, foster children, friends, neighbors and countless others. Memorial services were held August 17 at Holy Cross Catholic Church by Father Tom in The Colony, Texas." So apparently O.V. Campbell's wife was known as MARY BETH, perhaps the E was for Elizabeth, and oddly enough, her parents apparently lived in a suburb of Chicago....coincidentally [or not], Jack Ruby's old hometown region ["da region," as my friend from Gary, IN called it]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Lloyd Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Thanks Mark. Yes, I'm pretty sure her middle name is/was (?) Elizabeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Giovanna Zambanini Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) Ian & Mark... Linda,You should try different spellings - there is a Dallas County record of an Ochus (rather than Occhus) Campbell marrying Mary E. Kupstis in 1984, when Campbell was 75 and Mary was 43! It says Campbell was born in 1909. I'm using a tablet at the moment and don't know how to copy links. Thanks, Ian, I've always used the spelling "Ochus" and have never seen or tried "Occhus". And yes, i've done A LOT of genealogical research on him and Mary Kupstis was his 2nd marriage after 1st wife died. She was much younger. Mark, thanks for that obit on Mary Kupstis Campbell! I hadn't seen that before. Actually i never really researched her - i got off on a wild goose chase trying to track down a yearbook photo of OV Campbell, either in Oklahoma at his HS, or at the Dragon Business College he attended. Both dead ends. Oh the hours i've spent on THAT MAN! LOL! Edited October 1, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Giovanna Zambanini Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Tommy said: Linda,Maybe "Big Lumbering Guy" is standing to the left of the "Two Khaki Guys" in the top photo of post # 139.--Tommy PSThe guy labeled "Campbell?" in this Wiegman frame seems to be wearing a coat (you can see a "sliver" of it on his left side) and trousers which are the same color. Like a suit. Really? If it's the guy i see to the left of the "Khaki Guys" - he is short and fat. "Lumbering man" is very tall and big (like the guy I think is OV Campbell) - - a little husky but not rotund like the guy to the left of the Khaki Guys. There is another big tall guy farther to the rt (east) of Truly in this photo Bell photo - what do you think about him? As for the "sliver" of suit on Campbell - I guess i imagined that to be his dark tie or a scarf hanging down the middle. If that's a sliver of his suit .... what is all that white stuff? Is there someone standing there in white that makes it look like he has a white or lt. shirt or jacket on? . I'm lost on the sliver part.... Linda, I'm not talking about where his tie might be. In the Wiegman frame you posted, "Campbell?" is wearing a dress-up coat or jacket, only a small portion of which is visible covering his left shoulder and side because the frame's edge prevents us from seeing more of said coat or jacket. I think your "Campbell?" in that Wiegman frame is the same guy that's in the small yellow rectangle, above, (look at how much of his shirt is showing in both frames) and that he's also possibly the guy who waved Baker up the steps in Couch Darnell. I'm going back to the idea that "Big Lumbering Guy" might have been big Jack Dougherty, in spite of the fact that he testified that he was inside the TSBD at the time. Or who knows? Maybe Jack was up on the sixth floor, planting evidence. --Tommy Tommy...OK!!!! Now I think i finally "see" what you mean about all that white stuff in our original Campbell in Wiegman - when you showed how he is the SAME BIG GUY in the Bell photo (the guy i have the yellow rectangle around him) with his suit jacket unbuttoned and open, and a large area of his torso/white shirt/dark tie exposed. So that is what i'm seeing in our Wiegman "Campbell" (and so the dark area down his middle must be the dark tie as i thought). So we agree - the same big tall guy next to Truly in the Truly Group in WIEGMAN, that I picked out as Campbell being the "Big Lumbering Guy" and whom we have agreed for some time now was Campbell - IS indeed, (still) Campbell! Right? BUT at this point you think, IN DARNELL that same big guy is NOT the "Big Lumbering Guy" I had posited a few wks ago was Campbell wandering bk to the Depository after the shots.......but rather, Campbell has moved up to the steps and is instead the "Waving Man" waving Baker up the steps. Right? Just want to make sure we are on the same page.... So, I take it we still agree, on the identification of Campbell - he's the big, tall guy w/o glasses wearing a dark (might be brown) suit, standing next to Truly in Wiegman (and Bell). Correct? Gotchya! [...] Linda, Yes. Yes. Yes. And keep up the good work! --Tommy PS Sheriff's Detective Roger Craig can be seen in Skaggs 16, talking to Sheriff's Investigator Lummie Lewis (I believe). Behind the red light on the car's roof. Could that be big O.V. Campbell kinda leaning against the car? Thank you, Tommy! Yes, i wondered if that was Craig! Looked like him! So, he saw Dougherty as he was being taken to DPD for questioning! As for Lummie Lewis, I know who you mean but i don't think i've ever seen a photo of him. Do you mean they guy in the blk cowboy hat? (It looks like a blk cowboy hat - it's tiny, at least it's a blk hat). Btw...do you hv a photo of Lummie Lewis? If so, could you please post it or send it to me via Pvt Msg? Thanks! Hmmm....I didn't even pay attention to that big guy! You're right...that's a thought about him maybe being Campbell! My only reservation has to do with the color of his suit (blue) and hair (dk brn or black). In Bell, its obviously a brn suit and his hair is more gingery. Of course, this photo is not true to color and does seem to have a blue hue - note the blocks on the TSBD have a blue tinge and the sky is unnaturally blue. But...i'm not sure adding a ton of blue to a brown suit would make it look blue?...... Well, i took a long time out in the middle of this reply and got MAJORLY sidetracked replying to you! I ended up adjusting Skaggs 16's colors in my photo editor to a more natural hue - got the "blue" out. His suit is still blue and his hair is still dark - not blondish or ginger. So it doesn't appear that particular big guy can be O.V. Campbell. I'll post it here for you. I got majorly sidetracked for hours working on Skaggs and then Dougherty....I have a major post coming about the elusive (no more!) Jack Dougherty, which i'll also be posting at ROKC!!!!!! GOT HIM!!!!!!!!!! Do you want me to post it here? Or is there a Dougherty thread i should post it on here at EF? I've never been on any Dougherty threads here that i can recall. I might have been but don't remember posting on any. Only PM, Truly and Gloria Calvery threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Linda, This is a photo of C. L.(ummie) Lewis and Roger Craig that "Alan A." posted on the ROKC website. http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/forums/topics/show/13091558-identify-hat-badge-man- --Tommy PS Regarding what you've found on Jack Edwin Dougherty, I suggest that you start a new thread on him. Keep up the good work! Edited October 3, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) [...] Linda, Also see Gerda Dunkel's three gifs on this jfkassassinationforum page: http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=5649.msg%msg_id% . Note that Roger Craig's trousers are lighter than his coat in the top gif (in which he's shown walking through the parking lot / railway yard with Buddy Walthers). This is important because it means that Craig has been misidentified in the famous "Roger Craig-watching-Oswald-coming-down-Elm Street Extension-to-get-into-the-Rambler" photo. (The guy misidentified as Craig in that (Allen?) photo is wearing trousers that are the same color as his coat.) I think Craig is standing behind the guy in the brown jacket in the middle gif and that Lummie Lewis is the guy interrogating the woman in the bottom one. Contrary to what Gerda or somebody said on that website, I think it's possible that the "Lummie" figure was wearing a windbreaker, not a long raincoat, in that gif with the woman. --Tommy Edited October 6, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) [...] [...] deleted double post Edited October 3, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Giovanna Zambanini Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Linda, This is a photo of C. L.(ummie) Lewis and Roger Craig that "Alan A." posted on the ROKC website. http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/forums/topics/show/13091558-identify-hat-badge-man- --Tommy PS Regarding what you've found on Jack Edwin Dougherty, I suggest that you start a new thread on him. Keep up the good work! Thank you so much, Tommy! He's totally different than i've always imagined him! I always thought he was young and thin for some reason ...and in a uniform! I'm too exhausted to start a threat tonight... been working hard all day and just posted a major thread at ROKC - tried to PM you about it but it says you are not receiving PM's. I'll try to post it tomorrow. Later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Giovanna Zambanini Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Hello everyone... please see my much belated edit to my post #150 at the bottom of pg 10 about O.V. Campbell! I totally screwed up a graphic - not sure where my head was at that moment but I can only chalk it up to lack of sleep and too much research going on at the time! My bad! I mixed up Campbell with an "alternate" Campbell which Tommy put forward briefly and which we briefly considered and quickly dismissed. My bad! Sorry if i had you all scratching your heads! (I'm really surprised no one caught it and corrected me!) Edited December 4, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Largey Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Hi Linda. Did you try locating the women that worked with Truly and Campbell? Surely if you found one of them you could just show them some images of those outside the building and ask them to pick out anyone they recognise. They or their family may even have photos of TSBD staff members. Sounds easy but I know it's not and please don't give up on this guy for Campbell, he's in a prime position for people watching and the way he's surrounded by all those females he's the most likely candidate for me even if he was not near Truly at the time. Unattached man with a good job? Babe magnet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) Hi Linda. Did you try locating the women that worked with Truly and Campbell? Surely if you found one of them you could just show them some images of those outside the building and ask them to pick out anyone they recognise. They or their family may even have photos of TSBD staff members. Sounds easy but I know it's not and please don't give up on this guy for Campbell, he's in a prime position for people watching and the way he's surrounded by all those females he's the most likely candidate for me even if he was not near Truly at the time. Unattached man with a good job? Babe magnet! Clive, Been there, done that. You're looking in the wrong direction. You need to look about ninety degrees to the right. Mrs. R. A. "Jeraldean" Reid is the woman (whose face is only partially visible) standing behind the woman wearing the dark-colored dress and the white blouse in the Weigman frame, below. To help you find her, Jeraldean is wearing glasses and has dark hair. (Roy Truly is off to the right about eight feet and was not captured in this particular Weigman frame.) Jeraldean Reid said she in her statement that she was standing with Roy Truly and Ochus Campbell when the motorcade passed by. http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11104#relPageId=79&tab=page Truly is visible in a different Weigman frame which was taken within five seconds of this one. If you had read this thread, you would have known all of this already. --Tommy Edited December 15, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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