Jim Root Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Please do not waste time saying where Oswald wasn't only post exactly where he was and the proof that places him in that plaace at that moment in time when the President was being shot. Thank you, Jim Root Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Jim, Great question but sadly unanswerable... The timeline I see has him in the 2nd floor lunchroom as late as 12:25 to as early as 12:15 as seen by Carolyn Arnold (not the FBI statement, her subsequent correction of that statement) and then again at 12:31:30 in the 2nd floor lunchroom. Although that incident may not have even happened given Baker's affidavit. British journalist and author Anthony Summers provides the following summary of his 1978 interview with Mrs. Arnold: When I found Mrs. Arnold in 1978 to get a firsthand account, she was surprised to hear how she had been reported by the FBI. Her spontaneous reaction, that she had been misquoted, came before I explained to her the importance of Oswald's whereabouts at given moments. Mrs. Arnold's recollection of what she really observed was clear--spotting Oswald was after all her one personal contribution to the record of that memorable day. As secretary to the company vice- president she knew Oswald; he had been in the habit of coming to her for change. What Mrs. Arnold says she actually told the FBI is very different from the report of her comments and not vague at all. She said: "About a quarter of an hour before the assassination [12:15], I went into the lunchroom on the second floor for a moment. . . . Oswald was sitting in one of the booth seats on the right-hand side of the room as you go in. He was alone as usual and appeared to be having lunch. I did not speak to him but I recognized him clearly." Mrs. Arnold has reason to remember going into the lunchroom. She was pregnant at the time and had a craving for a glass of water. Mr. BELIN. All right. Do you know about what time it was that you left the lunchroom, was it 12, 12:15? Mrs. REID. I think around 12:30 somewhere along in there. Mr. BELIN. All right. When you left the lunchroom, did you leave with the other girls? Mrs. REID. No; I didn't. The younger girls had gone and I left alone. Mr. BELIN. Were you the last person in the lunchroom? Mrs. REID. No; I could not say that because I don't remember that part of it because I was going out of the building by myself, I wasn't even, you know, connected with anyone at all. Mr. BELIN. Were there any men in the lunchroom when you left there? Mrs. REID. I can't, I don't, remember that. DJ: not sure - but "I can't" suggests something very interesting. Oswald was there at 12:15, Reid was there at 12:15 or as late as 12:25 (she made it out front to see the motorcasde on time so she had to have left by then) and when asked about men left in the 2nd floor lunchroom she seems pretty nervous in her answer Oswald had no idea when the motorcade was actually going to pass, so to have him still in the 2nd floor lunchroom as late as 12:15 seems a bit cavalier to me given what needed to happen once he got up there. and if Reid saw him and was scared to say anything it could have been later. 12:00 12:05 12:10 12:15/25 12:30 12:31:30 Lunchroom lunchroom lunchroom lunchroom ??????? lunchroom (Edit: this was supposed to line up so the ???? was under the 12:30... didn't work) I'm thinking it was Oswald in the lunchroom with a Coke. DJ No one saw him leave the 2nd floor lunchroom. Edited February 24, 2011 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Baker Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Lee Harvey Oswald was at the corner window on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository (the location of the "sniper's nest") at the time of the shooting. At the time of the shooting, Howard Brennan, sitting across the street outside the TSBD, saw Oswald at that location. Oswald was aiming and shooting a rifle in the direction of the President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 At the time of the shooting, Howard Brennan, sitting across the street outside the TSBD, saw Oswald at that location. Oswald was aiming and shooting a rifle in the direction of the President. Amos Euins saw him too. Except that Oswald at the time he was shooting was black. Amos, of course, could have been wrong. But that would mean that Brennan (or any other witness) could have been wrong as well. Or lying. But then Brennan, as I recall, claimed he could read a license plate from a block or two away (or was it further than that?), so it's hard to imagine him lying or not being able to see the pores in Oswald's skin (which, by most accounts at least, was white). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Lee Harvey Oswald was at the corner window on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository (the location of the "sniper's nest") at the time of the shooting. At the time of the shooting, Howard Brennan, sitting across the street outside the TSBD, saw Oswald at that location. Oswald was aiming and shooting a rifle in the direction of the President. Paul can believe anything he wants, but those who want to know the truth must consider all the facts and not just those that support such beliefs. The Sixth Floor Sniper, or someone with a rifle was on the Sixth Floor at 12:15 - when Oswald was positively identified as being on the first floor. If Oswald was the Sixth Floor Sniper at 12:30 - who was the person with the rifle on the Sixth Floor at 12:15? I believe Amos Eunis when he said the Sixth Floor Sniper had a bald patch on the top of his head, which eliminates Oswald as a suspect in my mind. I believe Howard Brennan when he said that he could identify the Sixth Floor Sniper he saw in the window if he saw him again, just as he recognized the three black guys from the fifth floor as they came out the front door and pointed them out to the cops who took them in for questioning. But when Oswald waltzed out the same door within minutes and Brennan was standing there, he didn't recognize Oswald as the Sixth Floor Sniper. Howard Brennan Reevaluated « JFKCountercoup G. Kinston Clark's The Critical Historian, in which hewrites: "The distortion produced by bias are potentially present in any attempt to writehistory. Sometimes the danger is obvious and menacing, sometimes it is covert,coming from unexpected angles and in not easily detected forms. ….Any interpretation which makes use of facts which can be shown to be false, oraccepts as certainty true facts which are dubious, or does not take intoaccount facts which are known, are at best, potentially misleading, and possibly grossly, and dangerously deceptive. ….It is the first task of the historian to review any narrative to find what links are missing altogether…where what is defective cannot be supplied by further research, it is an historian's duty to draw attention to the fact so that men can know where they stand.…Any historical conception which has not been adjusted to the most recent results will cease to be satisfactory." Edited February 24, 2011 by William Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hocking Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 No one in the TSBD Building testified to seeing Oswald anywhere but the first floor from 12 noon to the time of the shooting (12:30). Piper sees him on the first floor at 12 noon. Carolyn Arnold again sees him on the first floor sometime after 12:15 when she leaves her office. Baker and Truly testimony place him in the 2nd floor lunch room 75-90 seconds after the last shot is fired. During questioning Oswald told DPD he was on the first floor about the time of the shooting and then went up to the second floor to get a coke. There were numerous individuals at different floors and locations in the building who should have seen Oswald if he were anywhere else, but No one did. So LHO is on the first floor a few minutes before the shooting, and on the second floor seconds after the shooting. I think most people can connect the dots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 When Oswald waltzed out the same door within minutes and Brennan was standing there, he didn't recognize Oswald as the Sixth Floor Sniper. Bill, If he didn't see Oswald leave the building, and as far as I am aware no one saw him leave from the front entrance, then how could he recognise him? If Brennan is standing outside the front door of the TSBD watching people come out, and Oswald came out, how come Brennan didn't recognize him as the Sixth Floor Sniper? Because he wasn't the Sixth Floor Sniper. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 When Oswald waltzed out the same door within minutes and Brennan was standing there, he didn't recognize Oswald as the Sixth Floor Sniper. Bill, If he didn't see Oswald leave the building, and as far as I am aware no one saw him leave from the front entrance, then how could he recognise him? If Brennan is standing outside the front door of the TSBD watching people come out, and Oswald came out, how come Brennan didn't recognize him as the Sixth Floor Sniper? Because he wasn't the Sixth Floor Sniper. BK Or perhaps because he left via a different exit. Then the Warren Report is wrong when it says Oswald left through the front door at approx. 12:33 Mrs. Reid, who Oswald walked past in the second floor office with a coke in his hand, told Oswald the President was shot and he mumbled something she didn't hear. He was walking towards the front steps that would take him to the first floor and out the door. Bob Groden says that he interviewed Mrs. Reid and she told him Oswald was with her at the time of the assassination, but swore him to secrecy until she died. Also, Brennan said that he saw himself on TV in front of the TSBD in the minutes after the assassination, when he was trying to aviod being filmed, when Oswald could have walked out while he was distracted. If so, then Oswald should be seen on the film, which Brennan says the Secret Service confiscated. Brennan is a good witness who helps exonerates Oswald as the Sixth Floor Sniper. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Baker Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 So LHO is on the first floor a few minutes before the shooting, and on the second floor seconds after the shooting. I think most people can connect the dots. So these clever conpiracists allowed their patsy to roam around at leisure during the shooting? What if he had gone outside and was captured in a photograph taken during the shooting sequence? That would have scuppered their cunning plan. I'd be amazed if they hadn't thought of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hocking Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 So LHO is on the first floor a few minutes before the shooting, and on the second floor seconds after the shooting. I think most people can connect the dots. So these clever conpiracists allowed their patsy to roam around at leisure during the shooting? What if he had gone outside and was captured in a photograph taken during the shooting sequence? That would have scuppered their cunning plan. I'd be amazed if they hadn't thought of that. Paul, Your inference that Oswald was roaming around at the time of the shooting is unwarranted. To recap the available witness statements: Around 11:50: Bill Shelley and Charles Givens see Oswald on the 1st floor 12:00 Noon: Eddie Piper sees Oswald on the 1st floor Between 12:15 – 12:25: Carolyn Arnold sees Oswald eating in the 1st floor lunchroom Oswald reinforces Arnold's testimony by telling DPD he ate lunch in the 1st floor lunch room and saw Jarman and Norman together while he was there. This would have happened at 12:10 to12:15, or again at 12:20-12:25 (from Jarman and Norman's staterments). Oswald would not have known this detail unless he were on the 1st floor at the time they were. So there is a nice congruency of witness testimony that places Oswald right where he said he was: eating his lunch in the 1st floor lunchroom. No later than 12:31:30: Baker and Truly claim to see Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room drinking a coke (exactly as Oswald claimed in his statement to DPD). For an excellent, in-depth discussion of the above by David Josephs, check out the link below: http://educationforu...opic=16336&st=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 So LHO is on the first floor a few minutes before the shooting, and on the second floor seconds after the shooting. I think most people can connect the dots. So these clever conpiracists allowed their patsy to roam around at leisure during the shooting? What if he had gone outside and was captured in a photograph taken during the shooting sequence? That would have scuppered their cunning plan. I'd be amazed if they hadn't thought of that. Oswald was going to be blamed for the assassination no matter what happened. Have you read Tom Sawyer? He witnesses a murder and how they framed an innocent man. Is Tom Sawyer a conspiracist too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 So LHO is on the first floor a few minutes before the shooting, and on the second floor seconds after the shooting. I think most people can connect the dots. So these clever conpiracists allowed their patsy to roam around at leisure during the shooting? What if he had gone outside and was captured in a photograph taken during the shooting sequence? That would have scuppered their cunning plan. I'd be amazed if they hadn't thought of that. Maybe Oswald was told by his handler to wait inside for a phone call. --Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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