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John David Hurt


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#16 Jim Root

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 10:29 PM

Ron

Your posts continue to provide food for thought!

Unless it is possible to somehow place John B. Hurt in Raleigh at some time, it would seem that all that can be done is to speculate about this subject.

But here are the knowns:

Oswald did attempt to make an outgoing call that was not completed/connected.

This outgoing call was reported by the news at the time.

This outgoing phone call attempt never made it into the Warren Report.

Two numbers were recorded for two different people with the name John Hurt in Raleigh, North Carolina (Leaving us to speculate that Oswald was not sure of exactly which John Hurt he was looking for).

The "Raleigh Call" information first became known during the HSCA hearings.

John D. Hurt was interviewed and had an interesting backround that perked and then deflected interest in this outgoing call.

John D. Hurt is reported to have given a "death bed" confession to making a call, while drunk, to Oswald while he was in custody putting to rest the last speculation about the "Raleigh Call."

There are currently 146 people listed in the Social Security Death Index with the name "John Hurt." (Jonathon and Johnathon turned up no hits, "J" Hurt turned up an additional 51 potential people whose first name would begin with "J") If my math is right that would give us a 1:73 (1:98.5 if we consider the "J. Hurt's")potential that Oswald was attempting to contact either the John D. or the John B. Hurt that we are discussing.

Theory:

Because the name seems to be a bit unusual (limited number of listings in the Death Index) we find that the mathematical probability starts to skew when we realize that there are a very limited number of persons by this name who would have had a high level security clearence at some time in their life(necessary if we are in fact looking for some sort of "cut out"). That John D. Hurt did in fact have one during WWII is interesting to say the least. That John B. Hurt had the highest level security clearence, that his work was still classified in 1963, that he worked in the same office space as Maxwell Taylor (and that he and Taylor were both Japanese linguists), that he has been relegated to obscurity within the intelligence community and that he may have been associated with Edwin Walker would, in my opinion, attract the attention of an actuarial scientist.

But of course it could all just be coincidence.

Jim Root

#17 Jim Root

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 07:07 PM

Ron

I appreciate your knowledge in the area of the Raleigh Call and would like your continued imput with the addition of the latest information involving Japanese linguist (and National Security Agency career employee) John Beltram Hurt.

It now appears that upon retirement from the NSA in August 1963 Hurt may have been out of the country at the time of the assassination for a vacation in France. Either upon his return from France or following his August retirement he relocated to New York. The thought is that either situation has this John Hurt being disconnected or unavailable if someone (Oswald) was attempting to contact him at his pre August 1963 telephone number. Would this leave Oswald scrambling to "find" John Hurt's phone number....hence the two numbers for two different John Hurts that otherwise we have trouble putting into the assassination drama.

Jim Root

#18 Ron Ecker

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 08:37 PM

Jim,

I think it is certainly possible that Oswald was trying to reach the John B. Hurt recently retired from the NSA. You've done an excellent job in pursuing this lead. If Oswald did try to reach him, I think it would likely be because of a past intelligence association in Japan, i.e. a desperate attempt to reach someone he knew who could hopefully be influential on his behalf, and not because Hurt was in some way helping to manipulate Oswald during 1963. If they had had recent contact, one would not expect Oswald to be unable to locate and reach him. Plus Hurt’s retirement in August and departure for an extended overseas vacation indicates Hurt had no role in the plot to assassinate JFK or the ongoing framing of Oswald.

What makes me doubt that Oswald was trying to reach the NSA’s Hurt, however, is the highly suspicious nature of the John D. Hurt in Raleigh whose number Oswald did somehow obtain. This Hurt was former Army intelligence, had a history of mental problems, worked as a “detective” in “southern Florida” in 1963, and was released from a hospital in late October 1963 in time to take a mysterious trip. To me this Hurt has potential JFK patsy written all over him, like Vallee in Chicago, Oswald in Dallas, and others whom we know not of. Had this Hurt and Oswald had some contact? Or do these Hurts, with Oswald trying to reach one or the other, comprise yet another in the web of remarkable, frustrating coincidences in which the JFK case is entangled?

I suspect it was the patsyesque (a word?) John B. Hurt whom Oswald wanted to reach (though not even Oswald may have known why) , but that’s only a guess. Sometimes I think that the gods themselves have planted false leads, dead ends, and inexplicable objects (everything from a cheap shipping casket to Raleigh phone numbers) to help confuse and distract all us seekers of truth.

Ron

Edited by Ron Ecker, 29 April 2005 - 08:51 PM.


#19 Mark Stapleton

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Posted 29 April 2005 - 06:43 PM

An interesting post, Ron. To me this matter is so confusing it's not worth pursuing, although I'm sure it's material to the case.

#20 Thomas Graves

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 02:33 AM


Jim,

(......)

I suspect it was the patsyesque (a word?) John B. Hurt whom Oswald wanted to reach (though not even Oswald may have known why) , but that’s only a guess. Sometimes I think that the gods themselves have planted false leads, dead ends, and inexplicable objects (everything from a cheap shipping casket to Raleigh phone numbers) to help confuse and distract all us seekers of truth.  [emphasis added by T. Graves]

Ron


Ron, Did you mean "John D. Hurt?"

--Thomas

Edited by Thomas Graves, 23 July 2013 - 02:27 AM.


#21 Ron Ecker

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 05:38 AM

Ron, Did you mean "John D. Hurt?"


Yes, I think so. Probably. I'm not sure.

#22 David Lifton

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 11:04 AM

Ron

Thanks for providing this information and keeping these threads alive.

I understand that John David Hurt died recently and was said to have made a "death bed confession" that he had attempted to call Oswald while he was in custody after the assassination. The story asserted that Hurt was drunk at the time he made this call and never admitted it until just before his death. My problem with this is that all the information seems to support the "Raleigh Call" as an outgoing call from Oswald and not an incomming call to Oswald.

Are you familiar with this "death bed confession?"

Jim Root


For what its worth. . . : I called Hurt back around 1970, and spoke with him for between 30 minutes and an hour. I believe he told me the same "I was drunk" story--and, again "FWIW", he sounded credible (i.e., that he was indeed drunk). I have a BASF tape of the entire conversation. Somewhere in my collection. With regard to anything I write here, I would defer to the tape as the better evidence. What I do remember is coming away from the call believing I had done what I could do, pursuing this lead, and there wasn't much to it. The Hurt tape should be somewhere in my tape storage boxes, and should I locate it, I will review it and double check what I have written here.

DSL
6/18/10, 3 AM PDT
Los Angeles,CA

#23 Robert Howard

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Posted 21 June 2010 - 12:28 AM


Ron

Thanks for providing this information and keeping these threads alive.

I understand that John David Hurt died recently and was said to have made a "death bed confession" that he had attempted to call Oswald while he was in custody after the assassination. The story asserted that Hurt was drunk at the time he made this call and never admitted it until just before his death. My problem with this is that all the information seems to support the "Raleigh Call" as an outgoing call from Oswald and not an incomming call to Oswald.

Are you familiar with this "death bed confession?"

Jim Root


For what its worth. . . : I called Hurt back around 1970, and spoke with him for between 30 minutes and an hour. I believe he told me the same "I was drunk" story--and, again "FWIW", he sounded credible (i.e., that he was indeed drunk). I have a BASF tape of the entire conversation. Somewhere in my collection. With regard to anything I write here, I would defer to the tape as the better evidence. What I do remember is coming away from the call believing I had done what I could do, pursuing this lead, and there wasn't much to it. The Hurt tape should be somewhere in my tape storage boxes, and should I locate it, I will review it and double check what I have written here.

DSL
6/18/10, 3 AM PDT
Los Angeles,CA

Ther is one shared coincidence regarding the Signal Corps elite cryptologist John B Hurt and the John D Hurt who, and I agree with Ron Ecker, seems to be a possible patsy, or at least has similarities to other "suspects," re his mental instability.
Which is, John B Hurt attended Roanoke College and the University of Virginia, but didn't graduate from either school. 1
John David Hurt attended the University of Virginia and graduated with a degree in law, but never practiced law. 2
Sources 1 page 40, The American Codebreakers: The U S Role in ULTRA - Thomas Parrish
2 The News and Observer, Raleigh, N.C., Thursday, July 17, 1980, Mystery Surrounds Phone Calls by Kennedy Killer to Raleigh by Pat Stith Staff Writer


The assassination of JFK has areas where a certain amount of solid evidence has linked some areas, Mexico City David Atlee Philipps, possible, or probable linkages
to George Joannides, the false Oswald at the Embassies, et cetera.
But there are some really big areas that, I submit are very complicated, and, I submit the John Hurt area is one of them.
My view is similar to Christopher Sharrett, that Oswald knew John B Hurt from a period long before the assassination, and that the last person he would have called
on November 23, 1963 would be an, as lonenut advocates might say, a screwball.
I believe it is evidence that he was a victim of the ultimate insult for someone in his situation, two telephone numbers to call to individuals who would not have had anything to offer, in the way of "help is on the way."
I hate speculative posts, mine included, but there has to be some kind of resolution of this.....
Additionally, James Richards once posted a photo that included a Col. James P O'Connell in a photgraph with Col Harrod George Miller, before the Forum crashed, the time before the last, not this last week, so the photo is not available on the Forum, I did manage to determine more about Col James P. O'Connell. There are many, many documents about "a" James P O'Connell at mary ferrell's website.
See below
DIV TO D/OS TITLE COMMENDATION FOR JAMES P O'CONNELL DATE 05/07/56 PAGES 1 SUBJECTS O'CONNELL COMMENDATION DOCUMENT TYPE PAPER TEXTUAL DOCUMENT CLASSIFICATION SECRET RESTRICTIONS 1A 1B
RIF#: 104-10123-10314 (05/07/56) CIA#: 80T01357A
http://www.maryferre....do?docId=53765
From: Glen E. Moorhouse
Acting Chief WE Division


And irrespective of the fact that the middle initial does not match, I believe this is the James O'Connell who was associated with Harrod G Miller
See Below
http://www.arlington.../jdoconnell.htm
Totally different from the static trench fighting of World War I, World War II involved rapid mobility across Europe, crossing mountains in the China, Burma, India theaters, and island hopping in the Pacific. With men like Lieutenant General James D. O'Connell, the Signal Corps provided the communications that regardless of mobility and terrain "got the message through." Born in Chicago, Illinois, on 25 September 1899, O'Connell graduated from West Point and was commissioned a second lieutenant in the Infantry on 13 June 1922. After one infantry assignment, O'Connell attended Signal School at Camp Alfred Vail, New Jersey, graduating in June 1925. Assignments during the 1920s included Communications Officer of the 35th Infantry Regiment and a company command with the 24th Infantry.

Detailed to the Signal Corps in 1928, O'Connell served as an instructor at the Signal School. By 1930 he had earned a Master of Science degree in Communications Engineering at Yale University and returned to the school as an instructor until 1936. Once more, O'Connell pursued his own education, this time at Command and General Staff School. He graduated in 1937 and returned to Fort Monmouth, serving first as Project Officer and later as Executive Officer of the Signal Corps Laboratories.

During World War II, O'Connell's duties included a tour in the Office of the Chief Signal Officer as Chief of the General Development Branch, Executive Officer of the Signal Supply Service and with Headquarters, 12th Army Group in England France and Germany. When the war ended, O'Connell returned to the United States as Chief of Engineering and then Director of the Signal Corps Engineering Laboratories at Fort Monmouth.

O'Connell served as Signal Officer of the Eighth Army in Japan from 1947 to 1948, and after a tour as Chief Signal Officer of the Second Army, was once again assigned to the Officer of the Chief Signal Officer from 1955 to 1959.

General O'Connell's military honors include the Legion of Merit with Oak Leaf Cluster, Eastern Campaign Medal with five Bronze Stars and France's Croix do Guerre Ordre de 1'Armee with Palm. His civilian awards are equally impressive. After retiring O'Connell used his technological and leadership abilities with, among other, the General Telephone and Telegraph Company. Among his recognition in the 12th Edition of American Men and Women of Science.

The General died on July 29, 1984 at Washington, D.C. He was buried with full military honors in Section 3 of Arlington National Cemetery.

His wife, Edith Chase Schlosberg (1908-1965) is buried with him.



O'Connell, James Dunne O'Connell, 84, a former Chief of the Army Signal Corps who also had been a special assistant to President Lyndon B. Johnson, died July 28, 1984 at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. He had cancer. General O'Connell, who maintained homes in Bethesda, Maryland, and Boca Raton, Florida, was a native of Chicago and a 1922 graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York.

Before World War II, he served in the infantry and earned a master's degree in communications engineering at Yale University, and also graduated from the Army's Signal School and its Command and Staff College. By 1940, he was executive officer of Signal Corps laboratories at Fort Monmouth, New Jersey. In 1941, he was appointed head of radio communications projects there.

General O'Connell served in both Europe and North Africa during World War II, then became Chief Signal Officer of the Eighth Army in Japan from 1947 to 1949. He was then named to the Signal Corps Board, and in 1951, was named Deputy Chief of the Corps. In 1955, he began a four-year tour as Chief. He was the first Signal Corps chief to attain three-star rank. He retired from active duty in 1959.

He then spent three years as a vice president of the General Telephone and Electronics Laboratories in Palo Alto, California, and two years as a consultant with the Stanford Research Institute before joining the White House staff in 1964. For the next five years, he was Special Assistant to the President for telecommunications and director of telecommunications management in the Office of Emergency Planning.

In 1969, he retired for a second time and moved to Florida.

General O'Connell's military decorations included the Distinguished Service Medal and two Legion of Merit medals. He was a fellow of the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers and had chaired its Joint Technical Advisory Committee from 1961 to 1964. He also had served on the secretary of Commerce's Frequency Management Advisory Council from 1978 to 1982.

His first wife, the former Edith Chase Scholosberg, whom he married in 1933, died in 1965. His survivors include his wife, Helen F., of Boca Raton and Bethesda; two children by his first marriage, Peter D., of Bethesda, and Sally Ann O'Connell of Fairbanks, Alaska; a brother, T. F. O'Connell of Hillsborough, California, and three grandchildren.

USMA 1922. WWII (12th Artillery Group). 1899-1984. S=3.



#24 Guest_Tom Scully_*

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 05:41 PM

Granddaughter of Yale Bonesman, William Kent.:

http://www.sfgenealogy.com/boards/mcobits/archive4/5426.html
ARNOLD, WHITMORE, KENT

[Marin County Obit Board]

Posted by Cathy Gowdy on Monday, October 01,

2007 at 14:07:14 :

Marin Independent Journal
Sunday, September 20, 1992


ELIZABETH ARNOLD
Helped crack enemy code

Elizabeth “Bibbs” Arnold of Los Altos, a

mathematician, environmentalist and wildlife

advocate who helped crack the Japanese code

during World War II, died Friday, Sept. 18,

1992, at her Los Altos Hills home of lung

cancer. She was 76.

A native of San Francisco, Dr. Arnold was

reared in Marin County and was the oldest

grandchild of Rep. William Kent, for whom the

city of Kentfield was named.

The daughter of a prominent San Francisco

attorney, Eugene (actually, George Stanleigh) Arnold, she attended the

Katherine Branson School in Ross and graduated

first in her class in 1932. The school later

named a day in her honor after she was elected

to Phi Beta Kappa at Vassar College in her

junior year.

After graduating from Vassar in 1937, Dr.

Arnold earned her Ph.D. in mathematics from

the University of California at Berkeley in

1941.

During World War II, Dr. Arnold was recruited

by the Navy and worked on a team of

cryptographers cracking Japanese codes, for

which she received a Meritorious Civilian

Service Award.

In the 1960s, Dr. Arnold worked on machine

language translation at Lockheed Missiles and

Space Co. Inc.

After her retirement in 1969, Dr. Arnold

helped establish a recycling center in Los

Altos and worked with Wildlife Rescue, helping

injured animals.

Dr. Arnold is survived by her husband of 46

years, Dr. William Francis Whitmore (rocket scientist, now deceased) of Los

Altos; four sons,... Also

surviving are her brothers, George Stanleigh

Arnold of Kentfield...


Her brother George, Jr. was a San Francisco Chronical newspaper editor credited
with discovering "Dear Abby", also, the cartoonist who created and drew the "Far Side", and was first to publish Gary Trudeau's Doonesbury comic strip west of the Mississippi.

Edited by Tom Scully, 01 August 2010 - 05:48 PM.


#25 William Kelly

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 06:07 PM



Ron

Thanks for providing this information and keeping these threads alive.

I understand that John David Hurt died recently and was said to have made a "death bed confession" that he had attempted to call Oswald while he was in custody after the assassination. The story asserted that Hurt was drunk at the time he made this call and never admitted it until just before his death. My problem with this is that all the information seems to support the "Raleigh Call" as an outgoing call from Oswald and not an incomming call to Oswald.

Are you familiar with this "death bed confession?"

Jim Root


For what its worth. . . : I called Hurt back around 1970, and spoke with him for between 30 minutes and an hour. I believe he told me the same "I was drunk" story--and, again "FWIW", he sounded credible (i.e., that he was indeed drunk). I have a BASF tape of the entire conversation. Somewhere in my collection. With regard to anything I write here, I would defer to the tape as the better evidence. What I do remember is coming away from the call believing I had done what I could do, pursuing this lead, and there wasn't much to it. The Hurt tape should be somewhere in my tape storage boxes, and should I locate it, I will review it and double check what I have written here.

DSL
6/18/10, 3 AM PDT
Los Angeles,CA

Ther is one shared coincidence regarding the Signal Corps elite cryptologist John B Hurt and the John D Hurt who, and I agree with Ron Ecker, seems to be a possible patsy, or at least has similarities to other "suspects," re his mental instability.
Which is, John B Hurt attended Roanoke College and the University of Virginia, but didn't graduate from either school. 1
John David Hurt attended the University of Virginia and graduated with a degree in law, but never practiced law. 2
Sources 1 page 40, The American Codebreakers: The U S Role in ULTRA - Thomas Parrish
2 The News and Observer, Raleigh, N.C., Thursday, July 17, 1980, Mystery Surrounds Phone Calls by Kennedy Killer to Raleigh by Pat Stith Staff Writer


The assassination of JFK has areas where a certain amount of solid evidence has linked some areas, Mexico City David Atlee Philipps, possible, or probable linkages
to George Joannides, the false Oswald at the Embassies, et cetera.
But there are some really big areas that, I submit are very complicated, and, I submit the John Hurt area is one of them.
My view is similar to Christopher Sharrett, that Oswald knew John B Hurt from a period long before the assassination, and that the last person he would have called
on November 23, 1963 would be an, as lonenut advocates might say, a screwball.
I believe it is evidence that he was a victim of the ultimate insult for someone in his situation, two telephone numbers to call to individuals who would not have had anything to offer, in the way of "help is on the way."
I hate speculative posts, mine included, but there has to be some kind of resolution of this.....
Additionally, James Richards once posted a photo that included a Col. James P O'Connell in a photgraph with Col Harrod George Miller, before the Forum crashed, the time before the last, not this last week, so the photo is not available on the Forum, I did manage to determine more about Col James P. O'Connell. There are many, many documents about "a" James P O'Connell at mary ferrell's website.
See below
DIV TO D/OS TITLE COMMENDATION FOR JAMES P O'CONNELL DATE 05/07/56 PAGES 1 SUBJECTS O'CONNELL COMMENDATION DOCUMENT TYPE PAPER TEXTUAL DOCUMENT CLASSIFICATION SECRET RESTRICTIONS 1A 1B
RIF#: 104-10123-10314 (05/07/56) CIA#: 80T01357A
http://www.maryferre....do?docId=53765
From: Glen E. Moorhouse
Acting Chief WE Division


And irrespective of the fact that the middle initial does not match, I believe this is the James O'Connell who was associated with Harrod G Miller
See Below
http://www.arlington.../jdoconnell.htm
Totally different from the static trench fighting of World War I, World War II involved rapid mobility across Europe, crossing mountains in the China, Burma, India theaters, and island hopping in the Pacific. With men like Lieutenant General James D. O'Connell, the Signal Corps provided the communications that regardless of mobility and terrain "got the message through." Born in Chicago, Illinois, on 25 September 1899, O'Connell graduated from West Point and was commissioned a second lieutenant in the Infantry on 13 June 1922. After one infantry assignment, O'Connell attended Signal School at Camp Alfred Vail, New Jersey, graduating in June 1925. Assignments during the 1920s included Communications Officer of the 35th Infantry Regiment and a company command with the 24th Infantry.

Detailed to the Signal Corps in 1928, O'Connell served as an instructor at the Signal School. By 1930 he had earned a Master of Science degree in Communications Engineering at Yale University and returned to the school as an instructor until 1936. Once more, O'Connell pursued his own education, this time at Command and General Staff School. He graduated in 1937 and returned to Fort Monmouth, serving first as Project Officer and later as Executive Officer of the Signal Corps Laboratories.

During World War II, O'Connell's duties included a tour in the Office of the Chief Signal Officer as Chief of the General Development Branch, Executive Officer of the Signal Supply Service and with Headquarters, 12th Army Group in England France and Germany. When the war ended, O'Connell returned to the United States as Chief of Engineering and then Director of the Signal Corps Engineering Laboratories at Fort Monmouth.

O'Connell served as Signal Officer of the Eighth Army in Japan from 1947 to 1948, and after a tour as Chief Signal Officer of the Second Army, was once again assigned to the Officer of the Chief Signal Officer from 1955 to 1959.

General O'Connell's military honors include the Legion of Merit with Oak Leaf Cluster, Eastern Campaign Medal with five Bronze Stars and France's Croix do Guerre Ordre de 1'Armee with Palm. His civilian awards are equally impressive. After retiring O'Connell used his technological and leadership abilities with, among other, the General Telephone and Telegraph Company. Among his recognition in the 12th Edition of American Men and Women of Science.

The General died on July 29, 1984 at Washington, D.C. He was buried with full military honors in Section 3 of Arlington National Cemetery.

His wife, Edith Chase Schlosberg (1908-1965) is buried with him.



O'Connell, James Dunne O'Connell, 84, a former Chief of the Army Signal Corps who also had been a special assistant to President Lyndon B. Johnson, died July 28, 1984 at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. He had cancer. General O'Connell, who maintained homes in Bethesda, Maryland, and Boca Raton, Florida, was a native of Chicago and a 1922 graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York.

Before World War II, he served in the infantry and earned a master's degree in communications engineering at Yale University, and also graduated from the Army's Signal School and its Command and Staff College. By 1940, he was executive officer of Signal Corps laboratories at Fort Monmouth, New Jersey. In 1941, he was appointed head of radio communications projects there.

General O'Connell served in both Europe and North Africa during World War II, then became Chief Signal Officer of the Eighth Army in Japan from 1947 to 1949. He was then named to the Signal Corps Board, and in 1951, was named Deputy Chief of the Corps. In 1955, he began a four-year tour as Chief. He was the first Signal Corps chief to attain three-star rank. He retired from active duty in 1959.

He then spent three years as a vice president of the General Telephone and Electronics Laboratories in Palo Alto, California, and two years as a consultant with the Stanford Research Institute before joining the White House staff in 1964. For the next five years, he was Special Assistant to the President for telecommunications and director of telecommunications management in the Office of Emergency Planning.

In 1969, he retired for a second time and moved to Florida.

General O'Connell's military decorations included the Distinguished Service Medal and two Legion of Merit medals. He was a fellow of the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers and had chaired its Joint Technical Advisory Committee from 1961 to 1964. He also had served on the secretary of Commerce's Frequency Management Advisory Council from 1978 to 1982.

His first wife, the former Edith Chase Scholosberg, whom he married in 1933, died in 1965. His survivors include his wife, Helen F., of Boca Raton and Bethesda; two children by his first marriage, Peter D., of Bethesda, and Sally Ann O'Connell of Fairbanks, Alaska; a brother, T. F. O'Connell of Hillsborough, California, and three grandchildren.

USMA 1922. WWII (12th Artillery Group). 1899-1984. S=3.



Thanks for thisRobert,
And Tom,

BK

#26 Jim Root

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 01:36 AM

Since my last post on this thread seems to have been some five years ago i feel I should at least update some of my research and thoughts.

1)During the Warren Commission days attorneys/investigators looking into the Silvia Odio incident speculated that "if" Oswald were with the men who visited Silvia Odio then those men may have provided a "cut-out" phone number for Oswald to use if it were necessary. I find it interesting to read that these investigators, who, I assume, were unaware of the "Raliegh Call" would consider the possibility that Oswald would have had a phone number of for a "cut out."

2)The Edwin Walker papers suggest that Walker was most interested in the Silvia Odio incident.....and made, it seems, more notes about the Warren Commissions work on this incident than any other portion of the Warren Commission materials.

3)Unlike Oswald's repeated attempts to contact Jonathan Abt, Oswald only made one attempt to contact "John Hurt." This suggest to me that Oswald was attempting to pass information to a "cut out." My research followed a line that would look for a person in the Raleigh area who would recognize the name John Hurt and would know to immediately pass the information along to people higher on the "food chain."

4)John B. Hurt was intrumental in translating the information that led to Operation Stella Polaris (which led to the Venona Secret) and the man that approved that operation at the end of WWII was in Raleigh, North Carolina.

5) Frank Rowlett and Meridith Gardner, the two men who would be tasked by the Warren Commission via the CIA via the NSA to investigate Lee Harvey Oswald for intelligence contacts, would both be close associates of John B. Hurt. Both Gardner and Rowlett were also the major NSA players in the Venona Secret materials.

6) In June of 1959 Richard Helms would be meeting with the same group of former OSS/Secret Intelligence operatives that were responsible for Operation Stella Polaris at the end of WWII. These meetings were coordinated by the same man who lived in Raleign, North Carolina. During these meetings Wilho Tikander (former OSS Station Chief in Stockholm during WWII speculated that an off the record intelligence operation was about to be launched by Richard Helms boys and would be conducted via Helsinki, Finland. Participating in these meeting was Whitney Shepardson who is closely linked to John J. McCloy and Demitri De Mohrenschildt (brother of George De M). Within four months Lee Harvey Oswald would enter the Soviet Union via Helsinki, Finland and in 1964 Richard Helms would be the CIA laison to the Warren Commission.

Thoughts:

It is my speculation that the Raleign Call was made by Oswald after he had suggested to his brother that he had contacts in high places.

I further speculate that Oswald may have been led to believe that if he made a person to person call to someone named John Hurt it would start the ball rolling to gather the help that he so desperately needed for the prediciment that he was in.

Oswald would have no idea of who John Hurt was or that John B. Hurt was associated with what was, at the time, one of the most closely guarded secrets of the United States (the Venona Project) during the Cold War.

If Lee Harvey Oswald had been provided with that name only a person at the highest levels of intelligence would have known what kaos would be created within the intelligence community when it was discovered that the accused assassin of the President of the United States had attempted to contact a person involved in the highest levels of intelligence.

The possibility that both Rowlett and Gardner, close associates of John B. Hurt, would be the ones selected to investigate Oswald for intelligence contacts is to much of a coincidence to overlook without further investigation (which I have done).

Hope these words generate additional thoughts

Jim Root

#27 Antti Hynonen

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:00 PM

Since my last post on this thread seems to have been some five years ago i feel I should at least update some of my research and thoughts.

1)During the Warren Commission days attorneys/investigators looking into the Silvia Odio incident speculated that "if" Oswald were with the men who visited Silvia Odio then those men may have provided a "cut-out" phone number for Oswald to use if it were necessary. I find it interesting to read that these investigators, who, I assume, were unaware of the "Raliegh Call" would consider the possibility that Oswald would have had a phone number of for a "cut out."

2)The Edwin Walker papers suggest that Walker was most interested in the Silvia Odio incident.....and made, it seems, more notes about the Warren Commissions work on this incident than any other portion of the Warren Commission materials.

3)Unlike Oswald's repeated attempts to contact Jonathan Abt, Oswald only made one attempt to contact "John Hurt." This suggest to me that Oswald was attempting to pass information to a "cut out." My research followed a line that would look for a person in the Raleigh area who would recognize the name John Hurt and would know to immediately pass the information along to people higher on the "food chain."

4)John B. Hurt was intrumental in translating the information that led to Operation Stella Polaris (which led to the Venona Secret) and the man that approved that operation at the end of WWII was in Raleigh, North Carolina.

5) Frank Rowlett and Meridith Gardner, the two men who would be tasked by the Warren Commission via the CIA via the NSA to investigate Lee Harvey Oswald for intelligence contacts, would both be close associates of John B. Hurt. Both Gardner and Rowlett were also the major NSA players in the Venona Secret materials.

6) In June of 1959 Richard Helms would be meeting with the same group of former OSS/Secret Intelligence operatives that were responsible for Operation Stella Polaris at the end of WWII. These meetings were coordinated by the same man who lived in Raleign, North Carolina. During these meetings Wilho Tikander (former OSS Station Chief in Stockholm during WWII speculated that an off the record intelligence operation was about to be launched by Richard Helms boys and would be conducted via Helsinki, Finland. Participating in these meeting was Whitney Shepardson who is closely linked to John J. McCloy and Demitri De Mohrenschildt (brother of George De M). Within four months Lee Harvey Oswald would enter the Soviet Union via Helsinki, Finland and in 1964 Richard Helms would be the CIA laison to the Warren Commission.
Thoughts:

It is my speculation that the Raleign Call was made by Oswald after he had suggested to his brother that he had contacts in high places.

I further speculate that Oswald may have been led to believe that if he made a person to person call to someone named John Hurt it would start the ball rolling to gather the help that he so desperately needed for the prediciment that he was in.

Oswald would have no idea of who John Hurt was or that John B. Hurt was associated with what was, at the time, one of the most closely guarded secrets of the United States (the Venona Project) during the Cold War.

If Lee Harvey Oswald had been provided with that name only a person at the highest levels of intelligence would have known what kaos would be created within the intelligence community when it was discovered that the accused assassin of the President of the United States had attempted to contact a person involved in the highest levels of intelligence.

The possibility that both Rowlett and Gardner, close associates of John B. Hurt, would be the ones selected to investigate Oswald for intelligence contacts is to much of a coincidence to overlook without further investigation (which I have done).

Hope these words generate additional thoughts

Jim Root


Jim,
Fascinating stuff.

It would be fantastic if we could somehow find out more about your section 6 and the Tikander, Shepardson, Hurt etc. meeting on the Helsinki aspect.
The time of events does tie in very nicely with Oswald's trip.

#28 John Dolva

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 08:56 PM

FWIW the Swedish - American ''club'' in Stockholm at the time may have something.
American dignitaries sometimes paid a visit..

#29 Jim Root

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 01:28 AM

Hi Antti

So good to hear from you again.....must thank you once again for the work you did on the FinAir info....much of that early work has helped to lead me to the information that I refer to in this post!

First let me make it clear that John B. Hurt did not play any part in the meetings of June 1959 nor would most of the men who were participating in them have known who John B. Hurt was with perhaps the exception of Calvin Bryce Hoover who had approved, as I understand it, Operation Stella Polaris based upon an Ultra Intercept that was translated by John B. Hurt and Richard Helms, whom as CIA laison to the Warren Commission would turn over investigation of Oswald's intelligence connections to John B. Hurts friends Frank Rowlett and Meridith Gardner.

The meetings of June 1959 are referenced in a series of letters between several of the former OSS/SI Stockholm personel and Calvin Bryce Hoover (whom, by the way. was, at the time of the assassination of John F. Kennedy, living in the area of Raleigh, North Carolina).

It seems that Wilho Tikander was encouraged to gather a large amount of information (some 200 pages) about operations conducted by the Stockholm Station during WWII. Apparently Tikander believed the information was being gathered by Whitney Shepardson for a book that he was writting (I have not found any written material by Shepardson that deals with the Tikander material). Within the Tikander material he (Tikander) is careful to point out that mention of the "codes" would be some sort of a violation of security even at this (14 years after the fact) time.

Several authors who are familiar with the work of the NSA, the Venona Project and Operation Stella Polaris have shared with me that they are familiar with this paper written by Tikander but none had ever seen it.

Reference is made in a letter by Tikander that he met with "Dick" Helms and his secretary (who was also a member of the OSS Station in Stockholm during WWII) recently and it seems that, of the group, both Shepardson and Hoover were also meeting with Helms on a more regular basis.

I am drawing from a bit of memory as I write this at this time but I beleive that Tikander mentions to Hoover in correspondence that he has heard through the "grapevine" that an off the record operation is soon to follow in the Helsinki area. This information is shared with Shepardson by Hoover and it is decided to keep Tikander at a distance from further discussions about the topic.

I do believe I shared with you several years back some information about a "mystery" agent that Tikander makes reference to in his work and I had asked you for some help in trying to identify who this person might have been. The information was so sketchy and would have needed to be researched from 1945 era Stockholm newspapers and we were left with a bit of a blank.

I have come to suspect that this particular person may have been Reino Häyhänen. Häyhänen was a Soviet agent who spent several years in Finland after the war living uder the assumed name of Eugene Nicolai Mäki. During the WWII Häyhänen, himself a Karilian Finn, had been working for the NKVD in Finland and one could suspect that Tikander, because of his good relationships with members of Finnish Intelligence, would have been able to have Häyhänen on his radar.

A closer look at the real person whom Häyhänen would assume as his own identity to enter the United States, Eugene Nicolai Mäki, we find that Maki been born in the United States (Idaho) and with his Karilian Finn family re-immigrated back to the Soviet Union in 1928 via an organization that Wilho Tikander's family had been deeply involved with (another reason that Tikander would have known about the real Maki and would have been, perhaps, able to identify Häyhänen as an imposter very early on when Häyhänen first entered into the US around 1952. In 1957 Maki/Häyhänen would defect to the United States and help to identify U.S. Army Sergeant, Roy Rhodes (code name "Quebec"). Rhodes arrest would lead to the capture of Rudolf Abel (Vilyam (Willie) Genrikhovich (August) Fisher), the leader of perhaps the largest Soviet spy ring operating in the United States.

By early 1958 Fisher/Able had been tried and convicted in the United States of espionage but his appeals lasted until March of 1960. This enless series of trials and appeals kept the work of Maki/Häyhänen in the news as well.

It is Tikanders references to an agent from the 1940's who was in Finland that was still in the news at the time of these June 1959 meetings that leads me to believe that Häyhänen may be the person refered to. Tikander also suggests that this persons more recent activities had created a difficult position for US Intelligence. If one takes a closer look at the intelligence that had come out of the Venona materials, we find that many people from the Abel organization had been compromised by that information yet Abel never was. By 1959 Rudolf Abel was a convicted spy based on the information provided by Häyhänen.

These speculations of mine come full circle when we look at the defection of Oswald to the Soviet Union (remembering that Walker publicly stated in later life that it was his belief that Oswald was working for both Soviet and American intelligence). And as you know we have put together information that proves that Walker and Oswald could have been on the same plane as Oswald made his way toward Helsinki in October of 1959. Just over a month after Able/Fisher's last court appeal a US Spy plane is downed over the Soviet Union. On February 10, 1962, Rudolf Abel was exchanged for Central Intelligence Agency U-2 pilot Gary Powers. Is all this just a series of coincidences? Perhaps.

How much did Tikander know? Was the return of Abel to the Soviet Union an important mission that required the downing of a U-2 spy craft to achieve? There something here that bugs me but I can't put my finger on it. Why can people tied so closely to John B. Hurt and the information he deciphered be so easily linked to the activities and even the defection of Lee Harvey Oswald to the Soviet Union?

And why can all these people be tied to John J. McCloy?

Jim Root

Edited by Jim Root, 13 August 2010 - 01:56 AM.


#30 William Kelly

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 02:01 PM

http://www.gwu.edu/~...BB260/index.htm

In response to a declassification request by the National Security Archive, the secretive National Security Agency has declassified large portions of a four-part “top-secret Umbra” study, American Cryptology during the Cold War. Despite major redactions, this history discloses much new information about the agency’s history and the role of SIGINT and communications intelligence (COMINT) during the Cold War. Researched and written by NSA historian Thomas Johnson, the three parts released so far provide a frank assessment of the history of the Agency and its forerunners, warts-and-all.

Read the Documents

Document 1: Thomas R. Johnson, American Cryptology during the Cold War, 1945-1989: Book I: The Struggle for Centralization, 1945-1960 (National Security Agency: Center for Cryptological History, 1995), Top Secret Umbra, Excised copy, pp. i-xvii and 1-155

Document 2: Thomas R. Johnson, American Cryptology during the Cold War, 1945-1989: Book I: The Struggle for Centralization, 1945-1960, pp. 157-287

Document 3: Thomas R. Johnson, American Cryptology during the Cold War, 1945-1989: Book II: Centralization Wins, 1960-1972 (National Security Agency: Center for Cryptological History, 1995), Top Secret Umbra, Excised copy, pp. 289-494

Document 4: Thomas R. Johnson, American Cryptology during the Cold War, 1945-1989: Book II: Centralization Wins, 1960-1972, pp. 495-652

Document 5: Thomas R. Johnson, American Cryptology during the Cold War, 1945-1989: Book III: Retrenchment and Reform, 1972-1980 (National Security Agency: Center for Cryptological History, 1998), Top Secret Umbra, Excised copy, pp. i-ix, and 1-116

Document 6: Thomas R. Johnson, American Cryptology during the Cold War, 1945-1989: Book III: Retrenchment and Reform, 1972-1980, pp. 117-262








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