The vanishing pool of blood

[Jack White]

There is a link to a filmed interview with Jerry Coley on the web page below.

FWIW.

http://scottmyers63.com/jfk2/media.html

James

Thanks James.

In this frame two cops appear to be looking at something down on the ground.

Also of interest are the young black couple standing near the bench, and the paper bag sitting on the bench.

Why are the black couple sitting on the bench not seen in any photos?

Jack

[Lee Forman]

Pity someone beat me out on an opportunity to score a 1963 first print of this one on eBay. The winner sniped me in the final 5 seconds of the auction and will not respond to my emails. On the stairs, starting from the left - what looks to be the unidentified young man that Hudson spoke about, Hudson, and maybe Stepman is still in location - hard to tell without a higher quality copy - this area certainly looks interesting.

Even a guy that seems to resemble Badgeman peeping over the edge of the fence.

[Jack White]

Pity someone beat me out on an opportunity to score a 1963 first print of this one on eBay. The winner sniped me in the final 5 seconds of the auction and will not respond to my emails. On the stairs, starting from the left - what looks to be the unidentified young man that Hudson spoke about, Hudson, and maybe Stepman is still in location - hard to tell without a higher quality copy - this area certainly looks interesting.

Even a guy that seems to resemble Badgeman peeping over the edge of the fence.

Lee...this photo is very interesting...when ENHANCED, it clearly shows TWO MEN SITTING ON THE STEPS.

Email me and I will send you my enhancement to post. Who is the photographer?

Jack

[Lee Forman]

Pity someone beat me out on an opportunity to score a 1963 first print of this one on eBay. The winner sniped me in the final 5 seconds of the auction and will not respond to my emails. On the stairs, starting from the left - what looks to be the unidentified young man that Hudson spoke about, Hudson, and maybe Stepman is still in location - hard to tell without a higher quality copy - this area certainly looks interesting.

Even a guy that seems to resemble Badgeman peeping over the edge of the fence.

Lee...this photo is very interesting...when ENHANCED, it clearly shows TWO MEN SITTING ON THE STEPS.

Email me and I will send you my enhancement to post. Who is the photographer?

Jack

Hey Jack,

It's an extremely high quality B&W Bond photo that a collector had up for auction. I didn't get the chance to win, so I can't get any high res stuff out of it - that was a crop of the area of the stairs. 'Profiles in History' - the winning bidder, has earned a black eye in my book.

Email sent...

- lee

Edited January 3, 2008 by Lee Forman

[Don Bailey]

Hugh Anesworth's story about finding a brocken soft drink bottle near the concrete steps one or two days later, adds creadence to Sitzmans story about the young black couple throwing down the bottle. !

Hi Robin,

If you were to break, smash or drop a bottle it would make a totally different pattern then what you see in the Couch film. Plus, it would leave glass fragments within that area.

Don

[Robin Unger]

Hugh Anesworth's story about finding a brocken soft drink bottle near the concrete steps one or two days later, adds creadence to Sitzmans story about the young black couple throwing down the bottle. !

Hi Robin,

If you were to break, smash or drop a bottle it would make a totally different pattern then what you see in the Couch film. Plus, it would leave glass fragments within that area.

Don

Hi Don.

Yeh, i'm still on the fence with regards to a pool of blood being seen in Dealey plaza

As for Anesworthy i believe he was a government stooge. ( pop bottle not blood ) ( no shooters on the knoll ) Oswald did it alone.

Credit: Bernice/Jack

Couch testimony on where he saw the 8-10" Diameter blood spot.

Approx 10-15 feet from the west end of the TSBD wall

[Lee Forman]

Hey Robin - I have trouble interpreting Couch - but it sounds as if he is placing the blood in the park - not alongside the building. If it was on the sidewalk alongside the building - why not describe it as on the sidewalk alongside the building then, instead of all the detail about the park and the little sidewalk and steps? There aren't any other steps in the area - only the steps to the pergola shelters, the large steps in front of the pergola structure, the front entrance to the TSBD, the loading dock, and the stairs leading down to Elm. I think Couch was confused, but was referring to the sidewalks opposite the building, in my impression of what he is talking about - he's on the other side of the Elm St extension. He is also referring to shrubs - this also says he is on the opposite side of the Elm St extension. He refers to the cops chasing - which is also what others referred to - like Roberts in the Press bus and Coley in his interview.

Here's the question - when Couch says 'Parkway' is he not referring to the so-called 'knoll' area? He could not be referring to Stemmons.

Mr. COUCH - Uh - he was standing on that little sidewalk that runs between the - I met him on the little sidewalk between the Book Depository property and the beginning of the parkway.

Mr. BELIN - That would be the west side of the Depository Building?

Mr. COUCH - That's right; that's right. It's there that I saw blood on the sidewalk.

Mr. BELIN - All right. Now, you say you saw blood on the sidewalk, Mr. Couch?

Mr. COUCH - That's right.

Mr. BELIN - Where was that?

Mr. COUCH - This was the little walkway - steps and walkway that leads up to the corner, the west corner, the southwest corner of the book Depository Building. Another little sidewalk, as I recall, turns west and forms that little parkway and archway right next to the Book Depository Building.

Dictionary.com

park·way /ˈpɑrkˌweɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pahrk-wey] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. a broad thoroughfare with a dividing strip or side strips planted with grass, trees, etc.

2. Chiefly New York State and Western New England. a strip of grass, sometimes planted with trees or shrubs, between a sidewalk and curb.

Belin is trying to get Couch to give an estimate on the basis of the location of Elm and the underpass, is he not? Where else would Elm go under an 'expressway?' Remember - Belin isn't stupid.

Mr. BELIN - This pool of blood - about how far would it have been north of the curbline of Elm Street as Elm Street goes under the expressway?

Mr. COUCH - I'd say - uh - well, from Elm Street, you mean, itself?

Mr. BELIN - Yes. This is from that part of Elm Street that goes into the expressway?

Mr. COUCH - I'd say - uh - 50 to 60 feet, and about 10 to 15 feet from the corner of the Texas Depository Building.

Mr. BELIN - It would be somewhere along that park area there?

Worth noting is that if you changed 10 to 15 to 100 to 150, the directions would improve dramatically. 10 - 15 feet from the corner of the building is the Elm St extension - no vale - certainly is NOT the sidewalk alongside the building. 50 - 60 feet from Elm is NOT the sidewalk that leads from the corner of Elm and Houston to the pergola shelter - no vale.

Sounds like Couch is in the general area of the Coley blood pool, if that estimate he gave was supposed to be from Elm and the [Expressway] underpass.

- lee

[Robin Unger]

Hey Robin - I have trouble interpreting Couch - but it sounds as if he is placing the blood in the park - not alongside the building. If it was on the sidewalk alongside the building - why not describe it as on the sidewalk alongside the building then, instead of all the detail about the park and the little sidewalk and steps? There aren't any other steps in the area - only the steps to the pergola shelters, the large steps in front of the pergola structure, the front entrance to the TSBD, the loading dock, and the stairs leading down to Elm. I think Couch was confused, but was referring to the sidewalks opposite the building, in my impression of what he is talking about - he's on the other side of the Elm St extension. He is also referring to shrubs - this also says he is on the opposite side of the Elm St extension. He refers to the cops chasing - which is also what others referred to - like Roberts in the Press bus and Coley in his interview.

Here's the question - when Couch says 'Parkway' is he not referring to the so-called 'knoll' area? He could not be referring to Stemmons.

Mr. COUCH - Uh - he was standing on that little sidewalk that runs between the - I met him on the little sidewalk between the Book Depository property and the beginning of the parkway.

Mr. BELIN - That would be the west side of the Depository Building?

Mr. COUCH - That's right; that's right. It's there that I saw blood on the sidewalk.

Mr. BELIN - All right. Now, you say you saw blood on the sidewalk, Mr. Couch?

Mr. COUCH - That's right.

Mr. BELIN - Where was that?

Mr. COUCH - This was the little walkway - steps and walkway that leads up to the corner, the west corner, the southwest corner of the book Depository Building. Another little sidewalk, as I recall, turns west and forms that little parkway and archway right next to the Book Depository Building.

Dictionary.com

park·way /ˈpɑrkˌweɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pahrk-wey] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. a broad thoroughfare with a dividing strip or side strips planted with grass, trees, etc.

2. Chiefly New York State and Western New England. a strip of grass, sometimes planted with trees or shrubs, between a sidewalk and curb.

Belin is trying to get Couch to give an estimate on the basis of the location of Elm and the underpass, is he not? Where else would Elm go under an 'expressway?' Remember - Belin isn't stupid.

Mr. BELIN - This pool of blood - about how far would it have been north of the curbline of Elm Street as Elm Street goes under the expressway?

Mr. COUCH - I'd say - uh - well, from Elm Street, you mean, itself?

Mr. BELIN - Yes. This is from that part of Elm Street that goes into the expressway?

Mr. COUCH - I'd say - uh - 50 to 60 feet, and about 10 to 15 feet from the corner of the Texas Depository Building.

Mr. BELIN - It would be somewhere along that park area there?

Worth noting is that if you changed 10 to 15 to 100 to 150, the directions would improve dramatically. 10 - 15 feet from the corner of the building is the Elm St extension - no vale - certainly is NOT the sidewalk alongside the building. 50 - 60 feet from Elm is NOT the sidewalk that leads from the corner of Elm and Houston to the pergola shelter - no vale.

Sounds like Couch is in the general area of the Coley blood pool, if that estimate he gave was supposed to be from Elm and the [Expressway] underpass.

- lee

I'm inclined to agree Lee.

That blood spot doesn't seem right to me. ?

The annotation on the image is Jacks not mine.

[Ron Ecker]

I don't understand a singular pool of blood on the knoll sidewalk from a physiological standpoint. Wouldn't a person have to stand there bleeding profusely, or lie there long enough, to leave a pool of blood? And then the person doesn't leave any visible drops when staggering or toted away? And yet no one saw this happen? I don't see how it could have happened.

Didn't Jean Hill say something about a snow cone on the sidewalk or ground? Soda pop or a snow cone would make more sense than someone standing or lying there bleeding in that one spot.

[Robin Unger]

I don't understand a singular pool of blood on the knoll sidewalk from a physiological standpoint. Wouldn't a person have to stand there bleeding profusely, or lie there long enough, to leave a pool of blood? And then the person doesn't leave any visible drops when staggering or toted away? And yet no one saw this happen? I don't see how it could have happened.

Didn't Jean Hill say something about a snow cone on the sidewalk or ground? Soda pop or a snow cone would make more sense than someone standing or lying there bleeding in that one spot.

Ron.

I am more inclined to think it was spilt drink, although how soda pop starts to coagulate by the time they return with a camera i have no idea.

And why the FBI would want to confiscate the 3-photo's if they only show spilt drink i also have no idea.

From there description Coley and Mulkey seemed to have left the corner of Main and Houston, walked down Houston and circled around behind the back of the TSBD.

Then walked over behind the pergola wall area until they reached the start of the picket fence where they then walked down the concrete steps.

Edited January 4, 2008 by Robin Unger

[Lee Forman]

I don't understand a singular pool of blood on the knoll sidewalk from a physiological standpoint. Wouldn't a person have to stand there bleeding profusely, or lie there long enough, to leave a pool of blood? And then the person doesn't leave any visible drops when staggering or toted away? And yet no one saw this happen? I don't see how it could have happened.

Didn't Jean Hill say something about a snow cone on the sidewalk or ground? Soda pop or a snow cone would make more sense than someone standing or lying there bleeding in that one spot.

Ron,

Mr. SPECTER - You just had the general impression that shots were coming from the knoll?

Mrs. HILL - Yes.

Mr. SPECTER - And you had the general impression that the Secret Service was firing the second group of shots at the man who fired the first group of shots?

Mrs. HILL - That's right.

Mr. SPECTER - But you had no specific impression as to the source of those shots?

Mrs. HILL - No.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you get a very good look at that man, who you say was starting to run?

Mrs. HILL - Well, as I said, when I looked down at this red stuff on the ground, I said, "Oh," you know, to myself, "they hit him." You know, I was going to follow that, and when I looked up again, I looked all around and I couldn't see him anywhere and I kept running toward the train tracks and I looked all around out there and I couldn't see him---I looked everywhere and I heard someone yelling something about---it was just this voice that was yelling, "It looks like he got. away," or something---I thought I had been right, you know, that he had really gone up there and he had gotten away some way in the tracks or had gone around behind the Depository, and so, I didn't know where he had gone. By that time I saw policemen---where he had gone. By that time I saw policemen---some were coming off of their motorcycles just around the curb here just at the underpass here, and of course, the motorcade sped away and. the policemen were coming from all sorts of different directions, people were closing in, and all I could think of was, "I want to get out of here fast. I don't want to be caught by anybody. I don't want to be in on anything," and every-time anybody would come toward me I would go another way until I got off of that hill back up there where the tracks were.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you run up toward the hill?

Mrs. HILL - Yes; I ran up toward the railroad tracks.

Mr. SPECTER - Let me draw the triple underpass there, and you ran up to what point-where? About the point of "D" here?

Mrs. HILL - Yes.

Mr. SPECTER - Why did you run up there after the man?

Mrs. HILL - I was still looking for him. I didn't know where he had gone. I heard lots of people yelling, "Did he get away, did he get away, and which way did he go."

Mr. SPECTER - You were trying to catch him?

Mrs. HILL - Yes.

Mr. SPECTER - But you couldn't find him any more?

The exhibit is useless...

[Ron Ecker]

From Crossfire p. 323, according to what Hill told Jim Marrs:

"As she ran up the Grassy Knoll, her attention was drawn to a 'trail of blood in the grass just to the right of the steps.' Thinking that 'our guys had shot back and we got one of them,' she followed the red droplets until she discovered they belonged to a Sno-cone - flavored ice packed in a cup. Someone had dropped a red-colored one that day on the Grassy Knoll.

"After the distraction of the Sno-cone, Hill continued her run up the Grassy Knoll, but valuable seconds had been wasted."

[Jack White]

From Crossfire p. 323, according to what Hill told Jim Marrs:

"As she ran up the Grassy Knoll, her attention was drawn to a 'trail of blood in the grass just to the right of the steps.' Thinking that 'our guys had shot back and we got one of them,' she followed the red droplets until she discovered they belonged to a Sno-cone - flavored ice packed in a cup. Someone had dropped a red-colored one that day on the Grassy Knoll.

"After the distraction of the Sno-cone, Hill continued her run up the Grassy Knoll, but valuable seconds had been wasted."

I have never believed the SNO-CONE scenario. It is highly unlikely that in mid NOVEMBER there would

be a sno-cone vendor anywhere in Dallas, particularly in Dealey Plaza. The temperature would make

such a venture unprofitable.

Jack

[Lee Forman]

From Crossfire p. 323, according to what Hill told Jim Marrs:

"As she ran up the Grassy Knoll, her attention was drawn to a 'trail of blood in the grass just to the right of the steps.' Thinking that 'our guys had shot back and we got one of them,' she followed the red droplets until she discovered they belonged to a Sno-cone - flavored ice packed in a cup. Someone had dropped a red-colored one that day on the Grassy Knoll.

"After the distraction of the Sno-cone, Hill continued her run up the Grassy Knoll, but valuable seconds had been wasted."

Hey Ron - yes, I have seen that also. She also thought that there were more than 3 shots, that Jackie was holding a 'dog' and that a man who closely resembled Jack Ruby took off running. Her husband and others ridiculed her - but she was right on the shots [iMO], she appears to have seen 'lambchop,' and I have always maintained that there was a man on the stairs that ran off - not the bogus one that appears in Nix and Muchmore. Her 'Sno-Cone' belief appears to have come after-the-fact. And it just so happened to have been found in an area where Hill and others were under the impression that one of the bad guys got shot. I'd say the 'Sno-Cone' idea was rubbish - and I don't know why someone would take the trouble to indicate that she followed the droplets - or why someone would imply that she discovered the Sno-Cone. Doesn't sound as if she followed any droplets to me.

You know, I was going to follow that, and when I looked up again, I looked all around and I couldn't see him anywhere and I kept running toward the train tracks and I looked all around out there and I couldn't see him---I looked everywhere and I heard someone yelling something about---it was just this voice that was yelling, "It looks like he got. away,"

My interest in the pool of blood remains the same - the man on the stairs that was removed - and whether or not he was one of the shooters that got winged but managed to get away.

- lee

[Don Bailey]

If you were to melt a normal Sno-cone it will produce about four to six ounces of liquid. The puddle was an estimated 16 oz. (one pint)