CIA WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ASSASSINATION OF

[Greg Burnham]

Allen Dulles in his book on spook work (I forget the title) made a point of the fact that something always goes wrong in a covert operation. Cover is blown. But people don't notice or don't think anything of it.

So it's not that the CIA is incompetent. Blown cover is the nature of the business. With the exception of the Bay of Pigs, all of the CIA's best known operations, in which cover has been blown, have been successful. (And it can be argued that the Bay of Pigs operation was designed to fail, which it succeeded in doing).

Cover has been blown, the American people have noticed, but the fact is they don't give a damn. They don't give a damn time and again.

IMO, if an operation that is designed and intended to be covert becomes overt, it is a major blunder and a sign of incompetence. If the CIA had been operationally in command in Dallas, not only would their role have been fully revealed, but JFK would have ended up dying of old age!

[Michael Hogan]

.....The CIA is a front operation for the REAL Intelligence Agencies of the US Government. Make no mistake--JFK was assassinated by the MILITARY's Intelligence apparatus. He was treasonously removed by them because he was erroneously viewed as an incompetent "Commander-in Chief" who might cause WWIII by accident.

In the year 2010 this should not even be in question any longer.

I agree with you Greg, it shouldn't be in question.

The DIA was formed because the military no longer trusted the CIA for the most

sensitive assignments and operations. Sometimes, the lines between the two

agencies became blurred.

In 1964 Wise and Ross released their classic book The Invisible Government.

It's hard to imagine today just how shocking their revelations were at the time.

Chapter 15 described the formation of the DIA and the instant, intense rivalry with the CIA.

To me, there is little question that the two agencies were heavily cross-infiltrated.

An excerpt (italics mine):

.....Dulles was particularly worried about the possibility that the DIA would gain a monopoly over aerial reconnaissance.

The Defense Department controlled the reconnaissance equipment and Dulles feared that the DIA would be tempted to

hoard the photographs produced by the equipment. He was determined to prevent any such thing.

During the U-2 era, the CIA had built up a skilled corps of civilian photo-interpreters and they would surely quit if the Pentagon

monopolized aerial photographs. Without interpreters, the CIA would have no way to verify Defense Department estimates.

At a time when electronic espionage was bulking ever larger, Pentagon control of aerial reconnaissance could result in

Pentagon dominance of the entire intelligence community.

Dulles expressed his misgivings to McNamara, who responded with assurances that the DIA would be only a coordinating body

and that it would not supplant the intelligence branches of the Army, Navy and Air Force. Some of Dulles' advisers suspected that

the Pentagon had covert ambitions for the DIA which were being suppressed temporarily for tactical reasons. But Dulles felt McNamara's

pledge left no ground for him to oppose the DIA. He went along with the proposal. So did John McCone, then head of the AEC.

The DIA was created officially on October 1, 1961. Named as director was Lieutenant General Joseph F. Carroll, who had been

the inspector general of the Air Force.

Carroll started his career with the FBI and was a leading assistant of J. Edgar Hoover at the time

he moved to the Air Force in 1947 to set up its first investigation and counter-intelligence section.

CIA men delighted in pointing out

that all of Carroll's experience had been as an investigator and that he had no credentials as a foreign or military intelligence analyst.

More to the CIA's liking were Carroll's two subordinates, both of whom had served with the CIA:

Major General William W. (Buffalo Bill) Quinn,

a former West Point football star, who was named deputy director; and

Rear Admiral Samuel B. Frankel, a Chinese and Russian-speaking expert

on the Communist world, who became the DIA's chief of staff.

*

Both of these men had worked closely with Allen Dulles.

Frankel served under him on USIB. Quinn, the G-2 for the Seventh Army

in Europe during World War II, acted as personal courier for the information Dulles gathered in Switzerland on Nazi troop movements.

(Quinn left the DIA to become the commander of the Seventh Army in November, 1963.....)

*One can bet that career Navy and CIA man Frankel surely knew all about Oswald, seeing that he was "a Chinese and Russian-speaking expert on the Communist world."

Still a classic: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopol...20of%20Contents

[Greg Burnham]

Dulles expressed his misgivings to McNamara, who responded with assurances that the DIA would be only a coordinating body and that it would not supplant the intelligence branches of the Army, Navy and Air Force.

It's an interesting response from McNamara. The responsibilities that he is claiming the DIA would be limited to performing are technically the ONLY "regular" functions for which the CIA is mandated as per NSC Directive. They [CIA] are tasked primarily with the coordination of the intelligence that has been gathered by OTHER agencies. They were never intended to be "operational" or to conceive of programs, or gather intelligence, etc...except "from time to time" if and when instructed to do so by the NSC. When JFK signed NSAM 55 instructing the Joint Chiefs to serve him in cold war matters similarly to how they serve him in conventional war and for their intelligence to be delivered to him DIRECTLY and "unfiltered" --effectively circumventing the role of the CIA-- it sent shock waves everywhere.

[Bernice Moore]

LAST EVENING I TRIED TO POST SOME DINKIN DOCUMENTS IN ORDER ON PAGE I, I COULD NOT NOR HAVE I BEEN ABLE TO STRAIGHTEN THEM OUT SINCE.SORRY BOUT THAT, HERE IS THE MARY FERRELL LINK TO THE DINKIN INFORMATION, IF YOU SCROLL DOWN ON THE LEFT YOU WILL SEE DINKIN DOC LINK THERE YOU WILL BE ABLE TO READ WHAT YOU ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN.IF YOU ARE THAT IS......THANKS FOR YOUR TIME..AND TAKE CARE ALL....B

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/...C_Eugene_Dinkin

Edited May 30, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Greg Burnham]

Well, that's pretty competent incompetency. So how incompetent are they really?

Indeed. They are extremely competent at lies, deception, cover stories, propaganda, red herrings, and the like. IOW: They're very good at "the manipulation of information" since they are, first and foremost, "of academia" for that is from where they recruit their agents. As you imply, they can manipulate information so competently as to appear incompetent in any area necessary to persuade, divert attention, or otherwise protect "interests" judged to be of paramount importance.

Bill Cosby once said [paraphrased]:

"The father in a family is brilliant because he is the only one who can get out of doing chores believably. All he has to do is perform them so poorly that his wife sends him back to his room because he didn't do them right, which is exactly where he wanted to be in the first place! Watching a father operate is beautiful...he's a genius."

[William Kelly]

.....The CIA is a front operation for the REAL Intelligence Agencies of the US Government. Make no mistake--JFK was assassinated by the MILITARY's Intelligence apparatus. He was treasonously removed by them because he was erroneously viewed as an incompetent "Commander-in Chief" who might cause WWIII by accident.

In the year 2010 this should not even be in question any longer.

I agree with you Greg, it shouldn't be in question.

The DIA was formed because the military no longer trusted the CIA for the most

sensitive assignments and operations. Sometimes, the lines between the two

agencies became blurred.

In 1964 Wise and Ross released their classic book The Invisible Government.

It's hard to imagine today just how shocking their revelations were at the time.

Chapter 15 described the formation of the DIA and the instant, intense rivalry with the CIA.

To me, there is little question that the two agencies were heavily cross-infiltrated.

An excerpt (italics mine):

.....Dulles was particularly worried about the possibility that the DIA would gain a monopoly over aerial reconnaissance.

The Defense Department controlled the reconnaissance equipment and Dulles feared that the DIA would be tempted to

hoard the photographs produced by the equipment. He was determined to prevent any such thing.

During the U-2 era, the CIA had built up a skilled corps of civilian photo-interpreters and they would surely quit if the Pentagon

monopolized aerial photographs. Without interpreters, the CIA would have no way to verify Defense Department estimates.

At a time when electronic espionage was bulking ever larger, Pentagon control of aerial reconnaissance could result in

Pentagon dominance of the entire intelligence community.

Dulles expressed his misgivings to McNamara, who responded with assurances that the DIA would be only a coordinating body

and that it would not supplant the intelligence branches of the Army, Navy and Air Force. Some of Dulles' advisers suspected that

the Pentagon had covert ambitions for the DIA which were being suppressed temporarily for tactical reasons. But Dulles felt McNamara's

pledge left no ground for him to oppose the DIA. He went along with the proposal. So did John McCone, then head of the AEC.

The DIA was created officially on October 1, 1961. Named as director was Lieutenant General Joseph F. Carroll, who had been

the inspector general of the Air Force.

Carroll started his career with the FBI and was a leading assistant of J. Edgar Hoover at the time

he moved to the Air Force in 1947 to set up its first investigation and counter-intelligence section.

CIA men delighted in pointing out

that all of Carroll's experience had been as an investigator and that he had no credentials as a foreign or military intelligence analyst.

More to the CIA's liking were Carroll's two subordinates, both of whom had served with the CIA:

Major General William W. (Buffalo Bill) Quinn,

a former West Point football star, who was named deputy director; and

Rear Admiral Samuel B. Frankel, a Chinese and Russian-speaking expert

on the Communist world, who became the DIA's chief of staff.

*

Both of these men had worked closely with Allen Dulles.

Frankel served under him on USIB. Quinn, the G-2 for the Seventh Army

in Europe during World War II, acted as personal courier for the information Dulles gathered in Switzerland on Nazi troop movements.

(Quinn left the DIA to become the commander of the Seventh Army in November, 1963.....)

*One can bet that career Navy and CIA man Frankel surely knew all about Oswald, seeing that he was "a Chinese and Russian-speaking expert on the Communist world."

Still a classic: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopol...20of%20Contents

The CIA might want to keep the Joannides and DRE records from the public, and go to great lengths to do so, I don't think they will tell us who killed JFK. They really concern the relationship of these agents and assets with Oswald, the Patsy, and whenever you start chasing Oswald, you are responding just as planned, and diverting your attention from the real assassins.

I too think the assassins are military, and not CIA, because when LBJ took over he cut off McCone and the CIA totally, didn't even want to hear from them, and LBJ's military attache seems to have the right ear, while the Bundy/McNamara and the security cabinet had the other.

The Invisible Government by David Wise and Thomas Ross is indeed an extremely important book that blew the cover of many operatons and networks and set the record straight about a lot of cold war interludes.

This is why my approach to the Kennedy assassination is to study it as a skirmish in the ongoing war among intelligence agencies, contractors and government departments.

Homer McMahon said that he worked for a group that was so secret you couldn't even say its name, and he was told to just say he worked for the CIA, and use the CIA as a cover, while he actually worked for another group.

The briefing boards made with photos from the Z-film McMahon prepared at NPIC on Sunday, November 24 were done in a covert need to know operation that was so secret that his supervisor was not cleared and not even allowed in the room. McMahon said that he didn't know who theywere but those who were to be briefed were not his usual clients - the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Director of the CIA, the National Security Council and the President, but another group, a group so secret that we still don't know today who those NPIC briefing boards were used to brief.

Who are THOSE guys?

That's why Wise and Ross called them The Invisible Government.

BK

[William Kelly]

.....The CIA is a front operation for the REAL Intelligence Agencies of the US Government. Make no mistake--JFK was assassinated by the MILITARY's Intelligence apparatus. He was treasonously removed by them because he was erroneously viewed as an incompetent "Commander-in Chief" who might cause WWIII by accident.

In the year 2010 this should not even be in question any longer.

I agree with you Greg, it shouldn't be in question.

The DIA was formed because the military no longer trusted the CIA for the most

sensitive assignments and operations. Sometimes, the lines between the two

agencies became blurred.

In 1964 Wise and Ross released their classic book The Invisible Government.

It's hard to imagine today just how shocking their revelations were at the time.

Chapter 15 described the formation of the DIA and the instant, intense rivalry with the CIA.

To me, there is little question that the two agencies were heavily cross-infiltrated.

An excerpt (italics mine):

.....Dulles was particularly worried about the possibility that the DIA would gain a monopoly over aerial reconnaissance.

The Defense Department controlled the reconnaissance equipment and Dulles feared that the DIA would be tempted to

hoard the photographs produced by the equipment. He was determined to prevent any such thing.

During the U-2 era, the CIA had built up a skilled corps of civilian photo-interpreters and they would surely quit if the Pentagon

monopolized aerial photographs. Without interpreters, the CIA would have no way to verify Defense Department estimates.

At a time when electronic espionage was bulking ever larger, Pentagon control of aerial reconnaissance could result in

Pentagon dominance of the entire intelligence community.

Dulles expressed his misgivings to McNamara, who responded with assurances that the DIA would be only a coordinating body

and that it would not supplant the intelligence branches of the Army, Navy and Air Force. Some of Dulles' advisers suspected that

the Pentagon had covert ambitions for the DIA which were being suppressed temporarily for tactical reasons. But Dulles felt McNamara's

pledge left no ground for him to oppose the DIA. He went along with the proposal. So did John McCone, then head of the AEC.

The DIA was created officially on October 1, 1961. Named as director was Lieutenant General Joseph F. Carroll, who had been

the inspector general of the Air Force.

Carroll started his career with the FBI and was a leading assistant of J. Edgar Hoover at the time

he moved to the Air Force in 1947 to set up its first investigation and counter-intelligence section.

CIA men delighted in pointing out

that all of Carroll's experience had been as an investigator and that he had no credentials as a foreign or military intelligence analyst.

More to the CIA's liking were Carroll's two subordinates, both of whom had served with the CIA:

Major General William W. (Buffalo Bill) Quinn,

a former West Point football star, who was named deputy director; and

Rear Admiral Samuel B. Frankel, a Chinese and Russian-speaking expert

on the Communist world, who became the DIA's chief of staff.

*

Both of these men had worked closely with Allen Dulles.

Frankel served under him on USIB. Quinn, the G-2 for the Seventh Army

in Europe during World War II, acted as personal courier for the information Dulles gathered in Switzerland on Nazi troop movements.

(Quinn left the DIA to become the commander of the Seventh Army in November, 1963.....)

*One can bet that career Navy and CIA man Frankel surely knew all about Oswald, seeing that he was "a Chinese and Russian-speaking expert on the Communist world."

Still a classic: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopol...20of%20Contents

The CIA might want to keep the Joannides and DRE records from the public, and go to great lengths to do so, I don't think they will tell us who killed JFK. They really concern the relationship of these agents and assets with Oswald, the Patsy, and whenever you start chasing Oswald, you are responding just as planned, and diverting your attention from the real assassins.

I too think the assassins are military, and not CIA, because when LBJ took over he cut off McCone and the CIA totally, didn't even want to hear from them, and LBJ's military attache seems to have the right ear, while the Bundy/McNamara and the security cabinet had the other.

The Invisible Government by David Wise and Thomas Ross is indeed an extremely important book that blew the cover of many operatons and networks and set the record straight about a lot of cold war interludes.

This is why my approach to the Kennedy assassination is to study it as a skirmish in the ongoing war among intelligence agencies, contractors and government departments.

Homer McMahon said that he worked for a group that was so secret you couldn't even say its name, and he was told to just say he worked for the CIA, and use the CIA as a cover, while he actually worked for another group.

The briefing boards made with photos from the Z-film McMahon prepared at NPIC on Sunday, November 24 were done in a covert need to know operation that was so secret that his supervisor was not cleared and not even allowed in the room. McMahon said that he didn't know who theywere but those who were to be briefed were not his usual clients - the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Director of the CIA, the National Security Council and the President, but another group, a group so secret that we still don't know today who those NPIC briefing boards were used to brief.

Who are THOSE guys?

That's why Wise and Ross called them The Invisible Government.

BK

[William Kelly]

.....The CIA is a front operation for the REAL Intelligence Agencies of the US Government. Make no mistake--JFK was assassinated by the MILITARY's Intelligence apparatus. He was treasonously removed by them because he was erroneously viewed as an incompetent "Commander-in Chief" who might cause WWIII by accident.

In the year 2010 this should not even be in question any longer.

I agree with you Greg, it shouldn't be in question.

The DIA was formed because the military no longer trusted the CIA for the most

sensitive assignments and operations. Sometimes, the lines between the two

agencies became blurred.

In 1964 Wise and Ross released their classic book The Invisible Government.

It's hard to imagine today just how shocking their revelations were at the time.

Chapter 15 described the formation of the DIA and the instant, intense rivalry with the CIA.

To me, there is little question that the two agencies were heavily cross-infiltrated.

An excerpt (italics mine):

.....Dulles was particularly worried about the possibility that the DIA would gain a monopoly over aerial reconnaissance.

The Defense Department controlled the reconnaissance equipment and Dulles feared that the DIA would be tempted to

hoard the photographs produced by the equipment. He was determined to prevent any such thing.

During the U-2 era, the CIA had built up a skilled corps of civilian photo-interpreters and they would surely quit if the Pentagon

monopolized aerial photographs. Without interpreters, the CIA would have no way to verify Defense Department estimates.

At a time when electronic espionage was bulking ever larger, Pentagon control of aerial reconnaissance could result in

Pentagon dominance of the entire intelligence community.

Dulles expressed his misgivings to McNamara, who responded with assurances that the DIA would be only a coordinating body

and that it would not supplant the intelligence branches of the Army, Navy and Air Force. Some of Dulles' advisers suspected that

the Pentagon had covert ambitions for the DIA which were being suppressed temporarily for tactical reasons. But Dulles felt McNamara's

pledge left no ground for him to oppose the DIA. He went along with the proposal. So did John McCone, then head of the AEC.

The DIA was created officially on October 1, 1961. Named as director was Lieutenant General Joseph F. Carroll, who had been

the inspector general of the Air Force.

Carroll started his career with the FBI and was a leading assistant of J. Edgar Hoover at the time

he moved to the Air Force in 1947 to set up its first investigation and counter-intelligence section.

CIA men delighted in pointing out

that all of Carroll's experience had been as an investigator and that he had no credentials as a foreign or military intelligence analyst.

More to the CIA's liking were Carroll's two subordinates, both of whom had served with the CIA:

Major General William W. (Buffalo Bill) Quinn,

a former West Point football star, who was named deputy director; and

Rear Admiral Samuel B. Frankel, a Chinese and Russian-speaking expert

on the Communist world, who became the DIA's chief of staff.

*

Both of these men had worked closely with Allen Dulles.

Frankel served under him on USIB. Quinn, the G-2 for the Seventh Army

in Europe during World War II, acted as personal courier for the information Dulles gathered in Switzerland on Nazi troop movements.

(Quinn left the DIA to become the commander of the Seventh Army in November, 1963.....)

*One can bet that career Navy and CIA man Frankel surely knew all about Oswald, seeing that he was "a Chinese and Russian-speaking expert on the Communist world."

Still a classic: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopol...20of%20Contents

The CIA might want to keep the Joannides and DRE records from the public, and go to great lengths to do so, but I don't think they will tell us who killed JFK. They really concern the relationship of these agents and assets with Oswald, the Patsy, and whenever you start chasing Oswald, you are responding just as planned, and diverting your attention from the real assassins.

I too think the real assassins are military, and not CIA, because when LBJ took over he cut off McCone and the CIA totally, didn't even want to hear from them, and LBJ's military attache seems to have his right ear, while the Bundy/McNamara and the security cabinet had the other.

The Invisible Government by David Wise and Thomas Ross is indeed an extremely important book that blew the cover of many operations and networks (ie Catherwood and the philanthropic foundations are just a footnote, but a glaring one), and they set the record straight about a lot of cold war interludes (ie Penkovsky).

This is why my approach to the Kennedy assassination is to study it as a skirmish in the ongoing war among intelligence agencies, contractors and various governments and their departments.

Homer McMahon said that he worked for a group that was so secret you couldn't even say its name, and he was told to just say he worked for the CIA, and use the CIA as a cover, while he actually worked for NPIC.

The briefing boards McMahon made with photos from the Z-film at NPIC on Sunday, November 24 were done on a covert need to know basis that was so secret that his supervisor was not cleared to even be in the room. McMahon said that he didn't know who they were but those who were to be briefed were not his usual clients - the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Director of the CIA, the National Security Council and the President, but another group, a group so secret that we still don't know today who those NPIC briefing boards were used to brief.

Who are THOSE guys?

That's why Wise and Ross called them The Invisible Government.

BK

Edited May 31, 2010 by William Kelly

[Ron Ecker]

If you want to identify as the assassins an Invisible Government that is more powerful than the U.S. military and intelligence agencies, then look no further than the fat-cat entities who tried to overthrow FDR in the 1930s. Those entities were still around in 1963 and are still around today.

But don't give them too much credit for competence as opposed to, say, the "incompetent" CIA. Their attempted coup in the 1930s was discovered and failed. Note, however, that they remained untouchable, as they are today.

[Greg Burnham]

One of the reasons I have no difficulty characterizing the agency as incompetent is partly due to my own prejudice against them. Indeed, they piss me off. IMO: if they would just do the job that they are mandated to do, we'd all be a lot better off and a lot safer.

The facts of life include the reality that we (Americans) have enemies. And it would be unrealistic to expect that sworn enemies would fail to ATTEMPT to do damage to us. So, we do, in fact, "expect" that attempts will be made. Yet, it's amazing how many times "things go wrong" for the US intelligence community's ability to prevent such attacks. Face it, the recent New York Times Square attempt failed due to the incompetence of the attacker and the vigilance of a store owner. Many of the blunders in our intelligence appear to be due to nothing more than lack of coordination between various agencies. This was the primary problem that was recognized by the OSS during WWII, which then led to the creation of the Central Intelligence Group [CIG] and later the CIA.

If the CIA would refrain from distracting themselves with "cowboyish" antics, for which they have NO mandate to perform, and constrain themselves to the coordination of intelligence, first and foremost, I believe that we would have a much stronger apparatus for detection and prevention.

[Michael Hogan]

Homer McMahon said that he worked for a group that was so secret you couldn't even say its name, and he was told to just say he worked for the CIA, and use the CIA as a cover, while he actually worked for NPIC.

The briefing boards McMahon made with photos from the Z-film at NPIC on Sunday, November 24 were done on a covert need to know basis that was so secret that his supervisor was not cleared to even be in the room. McMahon said that he didn't know who they were but those who were to be briefed were not his usual clients - the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Director of the CIA, the National Security Council and the President, but another group, a group so secret that we still don't know today who those NPIC briefing boards were used to brief.....

Bill, according to Doug Horne McMahon made no briefing boards. He only made enlargements of frames from the original film.

From Inside the ARRB, page 1225:

"Neither man (McMahon or Ben Hunter) helped to make the actual briefing boards themselves that night, nor did they see others make them that night....

....In his last interview, McMahon cryptically stated that he knew who made the briefing boards, but he was not going to tell me who it was.

[He expressed a concern that the individual may still have been a CIA employee.] He did indicate knowledge, or a belief, that the Secret Service

agent ("Bill Smith") had taken the photographic products directly to that person after the photographic work was completed so that the

briefing boards could be assembled, thus implying that the briefing boards were made that same evening, even though he did not witness it."

[William Kelly]

Homer McMahon said that he worked for a group that was so secret you couldn't even say its name, and he was told to just say he worked for the CIA, and use the CIA as a cover, while he actually worked for NPIC.

The briefing boards McMahon made with photos from the Z-film at NPIC on Sunday, November 24 were done on a covert need to know basis that was so secret that his supervisor was not cleared to even be in the room. McMahon said that he didn't know who they were but those who were to be briefed were not his usual clients - the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Director of the CIA, the National Security Council and the President, but another group, a group so secret that we still don't know today who those NPIC briefing boards were used to brief.....

Bill, according to Doug Horne McMahon made no briefing boards. He only made enlargements of frames from the original film.

From Inside the ARRB, page 1225:

"Neither man (McMahon or Ben Hunter) helped to make the actual briefing boards themselves that night, nor did they see others make them that night....

....In his last interview, McMahon cryptically stated that he knew who made the briefing boards, but he was not going to tell me who it was.

[He expressed a concern that the individual may still have been a CIA employee.] He did indicate knowledge, or a belief, that the Secret Service

agent ("Bill Smith") had taken the photographic products directly to that person after the photographic work was completed so that the

briefing boards could be assembled, thus implying that the briefing boards were made that same evening, even though he did not witness it."

I understand Michael, McMahon was responsible for making the enlarged color prints that were used for the briefing boards.

I don't believe "Bill Smith" was a Secret Service agent, but rather a NPIC employee.

Both Bill Smith of NPIC and the young man who made the briefing boards should be required to answer questions by Congressional oversight investigation.

BK

[Greg Burnham]

I understand Michael, McMahon was responsible for making the enlarged color prints that were used for the briefing boards.

I don't believe "Bill Smith" was a Secret Service agent, but rather a NPIC employee.

Both Bill Smith of NPIC and the young man who made the briefing boards should be required to answer questions by Congressional oversight investigation.

BK

Bill,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't any NPIC employee technically be employed by the CIA, by definition? If so, are you saying that CIA employee, "Bill Smith", while posing as a Secret Service Agent allegedly brought an "unslit" 16mm film to NPIC from Hawkeye where it had allegedly been "developed" etc.?

[William Kelly]

I understand Michael, McMahon was responsible for making the enlarged color prints that were used for the briefing boards.

I don't believe "Bill Smith" was a Secret Service agent, but rather a NPIC employee.

Both Bill Smith of NPIC and the young man who made the briefing boards should be required to answer questions by Congressional oversight investigation.

BK

Bill,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't any NPIC employee technically be employed by the CIA, by definition? If so, are you saying that CIA employee, "Bill Smith", while posing as a Secret Service Agent allegedly brought an "unslit" 16mm film to NPIC from Hawkeye where it had allegedly been "developed" etc.?

Hi Greg, yes, technically NPIC was CIA but the way it was set up it was where the DIA and CIA came together. Lindahl had each NPIC team include photo interperters and analysists from each of the services - each team had a CIA guy, and Army, Navy and Air Force guy assigned to the team, so when they made their analysis and report, it had to be a consensus as to what they determined to report what their conclusions were.

So it wasn't just CIA, though their pay checks were probably from the CIA. Lindahl was previously Navy NPIC, recruited to start the CIA's photo interpretation shop after the Navy NPIC report on the UFO Robertson Commission. When Lindahl asked for interpreters from each of the services to serve on each team, the Air Force balked and didn't play along at first, but then realized they were being left out of the game and joined in.

If you look at the official history of the U2, Kelly Johnson at Lockhead/Skunkworks, first brought the idea of the U2 aerial recon to the Air Force, who had dominated aerial photography during WWII but then slacked off. They declined to take up the U2 project, but the CIA took it on under Dick Bissell, and then LeMay said to let the CIA develop it and then they would take it over. (See: Dino Brugioni's "Eyeball to Eyeball" for background on this).

The Navy got even more involved by their association with the development of a new camera that they adapted to the Convair jet (See: 13 Days film) for low altitude photo recon and NPIC then set up - as the only interior photo of NPIC that I know to exist shows the two separate film magnification stations that are labeled - Low Altitute Photo Exploitation and Hight Altitute Photo Exploitation - which was the Navy jets and the CIA's U2s.

I don't think "Bill Smith" was a Secret Service agent as Homer McMahon says because the ARRB checked with the Secret Service and they had no William or Bill Smith working for them at the time, and there is a Bill Smtih who was a long time employee of NPIC who I believe was the person who brought in the Z-film for the Sunday event that McMahon gives us the details about.

While Bill Smith was a long time NPIC employee, McMahon was not. He never worked at the Steuart Garage during the Cuban Missile Crisis, so he might not have know who Bill Smith really worked for, or, more plausably in my mind, he realized that, after refusing to give up any other names of people who worked on the Z-film with him and Ben Hunter, after Hunter had given up his name - McMahon tried to back track and confuse the situation by saying that Bill Smith was Secret Service, when he knew him to be NPIC, trying to cover his ass and realizing he gave up something he shouldn't have.

I don't know what McMahon was thinking, and I don't think Bill Smith posed as a "Secret Service Agent," I just know there's a Bill Smith who worked for NPIC for many years and who I believe is the Bill Smith who arranged for the Z-film to be processed at NPIC after spending time at "Hawkeye Works" in Rochester.

The NPIC Bill Smith is still alive, and should be questioned by Congressional oversight, though there has never been any.

But very important to understand is the NPIC teams included officers from each of the three branches of the servces, and was one of the few inter-disciplinary areas where they came together - others being the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Defense Intelligence Agency.

BK

Edited June 1, 2010 by William Kelly

[Greg Burnham]

Thanks Bill.

Upon what are you basing your opinion that Bill Smith--who Homer McMahon said was a Secret Service agent--was the same "Bill Smith" who worked for NPIC? Is it just the "same name" --and the fact that the Secret Service denied anyone by that name having been in their employ--or is there more?