How many people did it take to assassinate JFK

[David Von Pein]

Frame 210 to frame 313 is 113 frames. The WC said JFK was hit sometime behind the sign. It's just short division Davey, so even you can do it.

Yeah, I can. But you seem to be having some math trouble tonight, Jimbo. You can't even subtract 210 from 313. You think it's 113. (It's only 103 frames, Jim. 104 inclusive.)

And, yes, Z210 to Z313 is 5.6 seconds. But didn't you read Page 117 of the Warren Report, where the WC said the shooting could have taken as long as "7.9 seconds"? Let's take another look, shall we?:

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0071a.htm

BTW, Jim, get your apostrophe fixed. I get tired of adding them in all the time for you.

As per the guesswork on the misaligned scope, you are the one who is blowing smoke. Look at the photo in Groden's book, and you will see it was not misaligned after, but before. It was resting with the scope up.

Who needs Groden's book? I've got the picture in question in my photo archives on the Internet--right here:

And you actually think that just because the rifle ended up on the floor in a SCOPE-UP position, that means we can positively eliminate the idea of the scope being damaged or misaligned by way of Oswald's possible rough handling of the gun when he shoved it between those boxes?

Surely you jest, my friend. The scope could very well have received some rough treatment as Oswald was hurriedly throwing it down on the floor amid those boxes. You're reaching far into your conspiracy cookie jar on this silly one, James.

There is absolutely no evidence of Oswald live firing a rifle, let alone that one in 1963. Pure BS on your part.

Nobody can say for sure whether he ever practiced with his Carcano or not. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. This argument is a CT/LN wash, and always was.

See, now I know why you don't want to co-sign the letter.

WTF? I've said multiple times tonight in this thread that I would LIKE to see such a rifle test. Are you not reading my prior posts at all, James?

Actually, such a test with a Carcano rifle in Dealey Plaza (which, as I explained to Jimbo twice previously, will never happen just because a couple of guys from California and Indiana have signed a letter and mailed it to Gary Mack, because Gary already explained that such on-site tests in Dealey Plaza would not be permitted) would really be a win-win situation for an "LNer" like myself -- and that's because even if the Gomer Pyle-like Marine didn't hit anything with his Carcano from the Sniper's Nest, such a failure by Gomer wouldn't suddenly WIPE OUT all of the physical and circumstantial evidence of Lee Harvey Oswald's guilt in the JFK assassination.

Does Jim DiEugenio really believe such a failure (if a failed test did occur) WOULD wipe the slate clean and result in the Government suddenly ready to declare that the man to whom ALL OF THE 1963 EVIDENCE STILL POINTS is now totally INNOCENT of the shooting?

Come now, James.

But, of course, if such a test with Gomer (or even his cousin Goober) was successful, and Gomer/Goober fired three shots from a Carcano in 6 or 7 or 8 seconds, with two hits on the target, it certainly should make a lot of ABO CTers shut their traps for all time. (But, of course, it wouldn't. We all know that, don't we Jim?)

Any true test under real conditions is impossible.

Spoken like a true-blue Anybody But Oswald conspiracy theorist. Call Jim Fetzer and have a beer together. Jim F. thinks that Oswald's rifle wasn't even a...."rifle". (Go figure.)

BTW, let me apologize to Jim Root. But he complained about DVP on this thread previously. It's the same thing he did at Lancer, which is why he got banned.

Yeah, Jim. I'm the only one who's been derailing Jim Root's thread here, right? You haven't uttered a peep, have you?

Edited September 23, 2010 by David Von Pein

[Greg Burnham]

Nothing like seeing your thread highjacked by little people.

The good news is that this type of setting, speaking personally, propels me into action - simply cannot stand the bs. So, I will make some inquiries and make some progress; after the intermittent fashion to which I am accustomed.

Chairs and a bigtime Felix Unger. Got a few calls to make - and all thanks to this rubbish.

- lee

What makes you think it was hi-jacked by a "little person" Lee? What, with all that fried chicken diet and s***? Stands to figure...

[Karl Kinaski]

deleted

Edited September 23, 2010 by Karl Kinaski

[Karl Kinaski]

David J.,

Oswald didn't have it in his mind to kill JFK until just a few days before November 22nd (at most).

Yes, and to celebrate it with a bottle of coke...

[Martin Hinrichs]

So what DVP does here is use his selective quoting from the WR. By not noting the factor of the oak tree obstructing the sixth floor view, he can get away with this ridiculous statement expanding the firing time. But what makes it worse is that DVP somehow missed this quote: "...the evidence indicated that the President was not hit until at least frame 210 and that he was not probably hit by frame 225." (WR, p. 105)

Jim, while you are talking about a shot at Z#210, let me throw this in:

I stabled the Zapruder frames 190-205 from "JFK, the Movie" lately.

The motion is far from being smooth cause there are some aweful motion blur in many frames.

I did the best i could.

Important: This GIF is 5Mb large and needs a while to load.

It depends on your connection speed. Here it needs 1 minute.

Once it is loaded, it should run smooth.

We can see clearly when Jackie began to turn her head towards JFK.

That happend close before Z#198. Her attention remained on Jack until much later when she looked to John Connally.

What's also noticeable is the rotation of Connally. His body is at an almost 90 degree angle to the right. Much more, than later in Z#224.

In the process to stable other frames from the Zapruder film, i've discovered abrupt camera shaking from Zapruder......visible in motion blur. At around Z#224 did that happen.

Here it happend again (at around Z#200).

In particular 198-199 happend some unusual motions to Zapruders arms.

Also worth to notice is that Phil Willis stated in his testimony that he clicked his camera trigger

right at the moment as a shot rang out at Z#202.

Millican, the man with the hart hat, seem to react in Willis 5 and Hickey (in the SS follow up car) flinched his head right before Z#202.

best

Martin

[David Von Pein]

"...the evidence indicated that the President was not hit until at least frame 210 and that he was probably hit by frame 225." (WR, p. 105)

Sure, that's 100% accurate too. JFK and Connally WERE, indeed, hit by Oswald's CE399 bullet between frames 210 and 225. The SBT occurred at Z224, IMO, which falls between those two points.

BTW, I think the WC was very wise to "bracket" the SBT timing, too. It was wiser to do that than to try and pinpoint ONE specific frame and label it as the definitive "SBT frame". And Vincent Bugliosi does that same type of bracketing in his book, "Reclaiming History", too. And I can appreciate and understand that kind of approach to the SBT shot.

Yes, I know that I myself HAVE pinpointed a specific SBT frame in my Internet writings (Z224). But we also have better digital techniques and gif clips, etc., with which to examine the Zapruder Film today than the Warren Commission had back in 1963 and 1964.

And I'll also admit that I could be wrong about the exact "Z224" SBT hit, because it's true (as the WC points out) that JFK was almost certainly struck by the SBT bullet while he was hidden by the road sign, which makes any kind of a definitive timing for the SBT shot very difficult indeed.

But I also feel that it's really JOHN CONNALLY that pretty much determines the SBT shot occurring at Z224. Because we can see all of Connally BEFORE he's hit by a bullet.

And since the only REASONABLE and rational conclusion, given the sum total of evidence connected with the initial wounding of both victims, is that one bullet positively did strike both men at the same time....then it becomes fairly simple to determine at what point on the Z-Film the SBT is occurring -- and the involuntary reactions and movements of Governor Connally in the frames immediately after Z224 are unquestionably telling me (and other reasonable people who have studied Mr. Zapruder's home movie) that Connally has just been hit by a bullet an instant prior to Z225.

But the Warren Commission's analysis of when JFK & JBC were hit by the SBT bullet (between Z210 and Z225) doesn't negate the WC's words that we find on Page 117, which is where the WC is admitting that they really DO NOT KNOW when the "missed" shot occurred. The WC is allowing for ALL possibilities, and they say so right on Page 117. They allow for a FIRST-SHOT miss, which, naturally, would stretch out the timing of the whole shooting. The Commission also allows for a SECOND-SHOT miss and even a THIRD-SHOT miss.

The WC also allows for the possibility that the Main St. curb damage could have been caused by a fragment from the head shot. And, hence, the WC is also allowing for the head shot to be a cause for the wounding of James Tague as well.

Again, that's all spelled out, clear as day, on Page 117 of the WCR. But Jim DiEugenio, who has his "Conspiracy Only" hat firmly affixed to his cranium 24/7, apparently thinks that the Warren Commission was just lying through its collective teeth when it was giving a whole range of possibilities on Page 117.

Gee, you'd think that Jim would be giving the WC a few extra points for being above-board and honest by ALLOWING FOR ADDITIONAL POSSIBILITIES concerning the shooting.

Jimbo, however, evidently thinks that by allowing for other possibilities (instead of being hard-headed and sticking to a specific scenario that the WC knew it could not prove with total certainty), the Warren Commission was STILL being as crooked as a dog's hind leg on Page 117.

I guess with some CTers, the Warren boys couldn't win....no matter what they did or said.

Edited September 24, 2010 by David Von Pein

[Martin Hinrichs]

And since the only REASONABLE and rational conclusion, given the sum total of evidence connected with the initial wounding of both victims, is that one bullet positively did strike both men at the same time....then it becomes fairly simple to determine at what point on the Z-Film the SBT is occurring

That is a geometrical impossibility.

It's really simple as that.

I understand that you don't have the abilty to verify it by your own but you

should consider that some people, except from Myers, can conclude it's absurdity.

Talking about Myers. I see you stay away from your "I support Myers videos".

Thats a good idea. Otherwise some may forced to uncover his betray here.

Martin

[David Von Pein]

I see you stay away from your "I support Myers videos".

I have no idea why you're saying this.

http://DVP-Potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/06/dale-myers.html

http://With--Malice.blogspot.com

http://Single-Bullet-THeory.blogspot.com

[Martin Hinrichs]

I see you stay away from your "I support Myers videos".

I have no idea why you're saying this.

http://DVP-Potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/06/dale-myers.html

http://With--Malice.blogspot.com

http://Single-Bullet-THeory.blogspot.com

Hiding it in links is also a method.

You don't want to see his betray here. Don't you?

Edit: Checkmate!

Edited September 24, 2010 by Martin Hinrichs

[David Von Pein]

You don't want to see his betray here. Don't you?

WTF? Translation please.

[Martin Hinrichs]

You don't want to see his betray here. Don't you?

WTF? Translation please.

You are somehow desperate.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Martin Hinrichs

[David Von Pein]

Another incoherent post from Martin. Nice.

[Bernice Moore]

the feinman report CBS ABC COVER ASSASSINATION FEINMAN PDF.

sorry i simply cannot load the file perhaps tomorrow...??? b.

b

this is what i get when i try to download the file, but the file is not showing when i do open it......?? the gremlin has taken over... :blink: help if you please..it is more than likely this piece of crap...

Error: Could not download document at the given URL. Sometimes this error happens when you submit a document that requires you to log into that website (e.g. gmail). Vuzit does not support this yet.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Ken Rheberg]

the feinman report CBS ABC COVER ASSASSINATION FEINMAN PDF.

sorry i simply cannot load the file perhaps tomorrow...??? b.

b

Speaking of CBS. . .

David Von Pein:

Until you came along, as far as I can tell, the tape of the CBS network television coverage for 11/22/63 has never been available -- in its entirety -- for one and all to see free of charge.

1. Did you obtain your copy of this tape from CBS?

2. Did you pay for it?

3. Has CBS given you permission to post it on the internet?

4. Do you have the complete tape for that day?

5. More specifically, does the coverage you received for 11/22/63 flow continuously and unedited from the end of Chapter 14 to the beginning of Chapter 15?

For those unfamiliar with it, Chapter 14 ends with Walter Cronkite announcing a ten second station break, then Chapter 15 begins with him resuming the broadcast approximately ten seconds later. A ten second break in coverage at this point is what the CBS transcripts also suggest.

Thanks.

Ken

[Martin Hinrichs]

Martin, that is real interesting work on the Z film.

Even more evidence that JFK was hit right before he went behind the sign.

Thanks Jim.

Yes it must be, since we all know that the SBT (except from a few nuts) is a

complete hogwash.

Frames 223-225

I've read the silly theory that JFK's mouth, which is already wide open in Z#225, was closed

as he was behind the sign. A kind of millisecond reaction cause at Z#223 has nothing occured.

Also, i wonder if this SBT theorist's ever paid attention to JFK's hands and how their magic bullet CE399

has made it's way to Connally without injuring any hand?

Strange world, some LN'er living in.

best

Martin

Edited September 24, 2010 by Martin Hinrichs