Two Dallas cops were involved in the pre-arranged murder of Tippit...

[Sandy Larsen]

23 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I'm not so sure that that is a coincidence Jim.

This reminds me of the huge contradiction we have between the Parkland wound witnesses and the autopsy photos. Either you accept one or the other as being factual. They both cannot be true.

In this case the eyewitness testimony surrounding the Tippit shooting  contradicts the timestamps on the DPD radio recordings. Which one are we to believe?

I'm afraid I'm left with no choice than to believe that the timestamps on the Dictabelt recordings were altered. At least some key ones were.

 

I think that this is what happened:

First, transcripts were made from audio tape copies of the Dictabelt recordings.

Then, after the assassination re-enactment was completed and it was discovered that Oswald could not have been near Tippit's car at his time of death, 1:06, the FBI decided to have several minutes (about 7 according to my timeline) added to all the timestamps... or at least to some key ones. They did this to the transcripts first and later to a tape copy of the Dictabelt recordings. They accidentally overlooked the 1:10 timestamp on the transcript, and so it remained intact. Bowley's testimony supports this conjecture.

I checked out the chain of possession of the Dictabelt and tape recordings to see if the FBI had time to do the alteration, and to see if they controlled all the recordings so that a unaltered one couldn't get out. This highly detailed article written by Tom Scally was a big help to me. (It's a gem that should be archived on the Mary Ferrell website.) Here is the chain of possession for the audio recordings that are now in the public domain:

1. According to the WC testimony of DPD Sergeant Gerald Dalton Henslee, the DPD had an original tape copy of the Dictabelt recordings in early December of 1963.
2. Some time prior to early 1967, DPD Sergeants Gerald Hill or Gerald Henslee gave a DPD tape to Judy Bonner (who was writing "Investigation of a Homicide" at the time).
3. In June 1969, the Judy Bonner's tape (or a copy) was given to Mary Ferrell. This s in the PUBLIC DOMAIN.
4. A tape identified as being from the same source was discovered by Dave Dix at the Minneapolis Public Library in 1990. This is also in the PUBLIC DOMAIN.

So, the public domain recordings MAY have originated from the audio tape the DPD had in early December 1963. Or they may have come from a different, LATER tape, also held by the DPD. But in either case, they came from the DPD no later than early 1967.

Therefore the FBI had potentially three years to alter the recording that we now have in the public domain.

As for whether or not the government could have counted on keeping all other copies of the recording out of the public's hands, I think that's a real possibility. Numerous copies were reportedly made at different times and on different media. Which makes it sound like it would be difficult for the FBI to control. However, nearly all the copies were made either for the FBI/SS or by the FBI/SS. The FBI did return the original Dictabelts to the DPD and apparently gave two tape recorded copies to them, which Chief Curry and his successor kept locked up for nine years. And so those were out of the hands of the FBI. But it's entirely possible that the FBI at some point did a switcheroo (assuming that the recordings they'd given the DPD still had the original timestamps on them).

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Sandy Larsen

[Steve Thomas]

On 12/7/2018 at 10:03 AM, David Josephs said:

 

David,

 

You've probably been asked this before, but did you own the Thunderbird Lounge?

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10490#relPageId=199&tab=page

Heh heh

 

Steve Thomas

[Sandy Larsen]

34 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

You've probably been asked this before, but did you own the Thunderbird Lounge?

 

LOL    

 

[David Josephs]

Hmmm, how old would that make me?   lol

"S"

Joseph.....S

then there's this... still without the "S"....

[Steve Thomas]

11 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Hmmm, how old would that make me?   lol

"S"

Joseph.....S

then there's this... still without the "S"....

 

David,

 

Trying to conceal your identity by tacking on an extra "S" will do you no good.

Face it, you've been "outed".

 

Steve Thomas

[David Josephs]

Makes ‘em think there’s more of us that way...

 

 

[Jim Hargrove]

20 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I'm afraid I'm left with no choice than to believe that the timestamps on the Dictabelt recordings were altered. At least some key ones were.
 

Absolutely!!  I just finished uploading some major updates to the Tippit murder page on H&L.net.  In, them, I think we absolutely prove that the Dallas police radio transcripts were altered, and we discuss the reasons for the alterations.  Today or tomorrow I’ll start a thread here on the Ed Forum, unless someone else wants to go first, going over this evidence.

In the meantime, if you’d like to see how John has written this up, go to the Tippit murder page and find the first instance of “Higgins,” which should get you to a paragraph that begins, “1:06 P.M.  Mrs. Margie Higgins....”  That’s where the evidence begins.  The Tippit page is here:

THE MURDER OF J.D. TIPPIT

Megathanks to Steve Thomas for pointing us to several significant docs re the DPD radio transcripts and recordings.  Some of Sandy’s remarks at the top of this page are news to me, but I’m exhausted by the updating process and will need a little time to digest his new material.
 

[Steve Thomas]

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Megathanks to Steve Thomas for pointing us to several significant docs re the DPD radio transcripts and recordings.  Some of Sandy’s remarks at the top of this page are news to me, but I’m exhausted by the updating process and will need a little time to digest his new material.
 

Jim,

 

I have one other to add. This is the Secret Service copy of the dispatch tapes.

This is CD 87 beginning on page 636 and running to page 644.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10490#relPageId=636&tab=page

 

Steve Thomas

 

[Sandy Larsen]

22 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I think that this is what happened:

First, transcripts were made from audio tape copies of the Dictabelt recordings.

Then, after the assassination re-enactment was completed and it was discovered that Oswald could not have been near Tippit's car at his time of death, 1:06, the FBI decided to have 10 minutes added to all the timestamps... or at least to some key ones. They did this to the transcripts first and later to a tape copy of the Dictabelt recordings. They accidentally overlooked the 1:10 timestamp on the transcript, and so it remained intact. Bowley's testimony supports this conjecture.

 

I made a mistake in my last post, in the phrase marked in red above. I have since corrected it as follows (correction is underlined):

"....the FBI decided to have several minutes (about 7 according to my timeline) added to all the timestamps.... "

 

[Jim Hargrove]

Tonight or tomorrow there will be a lot of new material added to the DPD fake radio broadcasts section of the H&L Tippit murder page.  John has found yet more evidence of calls to police not even hinted at by the extant alleged radio recordings and transcripts.  More importantly….

There is now DROP-DEAD PROOF that the recordings and transcripts were altered.  John has found a report of two Dallas cops who heard the report of the Tippit shooting on the police radio and then started driving toward 10th and Patton.  On the way, they encountered the ambulance driven by Clayton Butler and followed it to Methodist Hospital.  They followed the body inside and saw medics trying to revive Tippit before declaring him dead on arrival at 1:15 PM.  See how phony the so-called radio transcripts are for this time period.  (Shown below are FBI versions):

Nuf said!  Part of this information is already up on the Tippit page, but a seventh witness call re the shooting and the police report of the two officers following the ambulance to the hospital will be up later tonight or tomorrow. 
 

[Jim Hargrove]

On 12/10/2018 at 12:21 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I think that this is what happened:

First, transcripts were made from audio tape copies of the Dictabelt recordings.

Then, after the assassination re-enactment was completed and it was discovered that Oswald could not have been near Tippit's car at his time of death, 1:06, the FBI decided to have several minutes (about 7 according to my timeline) added to all the timestamps... or at least to some key ones. They did this to the transcripts first and later to a tape copy of the Dictabelt recordings. They accidentally overlooked the 1:10 timestamp on the transcript, and so it remained intact. Bowley's testimony supports this conjecture.

I checked out the chain of possession of the Dictabelt and tape recordings to see if the FBI had time to do the alteration, and to see if they controlled all the recordings so that a unaltered one couldn't get out. This highly detailed article written by Tom Scally was a big help to me. (It's a gem that should be archived on the Mary Ferrell website.) Here is the chain of possession for the audio recordings that are now in the public domain:

1. According to the WC testimony of DPD Sergeant Gerald Dalton Henslee, the DPD had an original tape copy of the Dictabelt recordings in early December of 1963.
2. Some time prior to early 1967, DPD Sergeants Gerald Hill or Gerald Henslee gave a DPD tape to Judy Bonner (who was writing "Investigation of a Homicide" at the time).
3. In June 1969, the Judy Bonner's tape (or a copy) was given to Mary Ferrell. This s in the PUBLIC DOMAIN.
4. A tape identified as being from the same source was discovered by Dave Dix at the Minneapolis Public Library in 1990. This is also in the PUBLIC DOMAIN.

So, the public domain recordings MAY have originated from the audio tape the DPD had in early December 1963. Or they may have come from a different, LATER tape, also held by the DPD. But in either case, they came from the DPD no later than early 1967.

Therefore the FBI had potentially three years to alter the recording that we now have in the public domain.

As for whether or not the government could have counted on keeping all other copies of the recording out of the public's hands, I think that's a real possibility. Numerous copies were reportedly made at different times and on different media. Which makes it sound like it would be difficult for the FBI to control. However, nearly all the copies were made either for the FBI/SS or by the FBI/SS. The FBI did return the original Dictabelts to the DPD and apparently gave two tape recorded copies to them, which Chief Curry and his successor kept locked up for nine years. And so those were out of the hands of the FBI. But it's entirely possible that the FBI at some point did a switcheroo (assuming that the recordings they'd given the DPD still had the original timestamps on them).

This is interesting, because John has been telling me for months that he thinks the FBI added about 10 minutes to many of the timestamps after about 1 PM, for the obvious reason that an honest record didn’t allow enough time for Classic Oswald® to walk from the rooming house to Tenth and Patton to murder Tippit.  

This isn’t up on the website yet, but John writes that, “FBI agents returned the dictabelts to DPD Captain Bowles, but advised they were experiencing difficulty in preparing transcripts from the recordings (see below). In March, 1982 Bowles told Gary Mack that he could not give any assurance that the belts which were returned by the FBI were the ones which left the possession of the DPD."

When I was a young child in the 1950s in NYC, my father was a Dictabelt salesman and he often brought home demonstrator machines for me to play with.  The machines operated by cutting grooves matching audio waves into plastic belts, much as the old vinyl phonograph records worked.  It would have been virtually impossible to significantly edit a Dictabelt, but a simple matter to record the content on audio tape, splice and edit the tape, and then re-record the faked audio on a new Dictabelt.  For the 1950s, the technology was good.

Interesting that Bowles told Gary Mack, before Mack was employed by the Dark Side, that he could give no assurance the belts returned by the FBI were the same as the originals.

[Sandy Larsen]

My goal in making a timeline was to see how it compared with the official story. I used mostly first-day statements and non-government sources to derive it. Since Jim and Steve have posted links to the DPD radio transcripts here, I decided to see how they compare to my timeline.

I was able to get the following times from the transcripts:

1:17 - Witness T.F. Bowley calls in the shooting via Tippit's radio.

1:18 - (printed as "1:10" on the transcript)  Ambulance asks the dispatcher for directions

1:19 - Ambulance arrives and the body is loaded.

1:22 - Officer Poe and Patrolman L.E. Jez arrive, and interview an excited Helen Markham.

(Note that I had to do a little bit of interpolation because not every minute of the radio communication is timestamped.)

Note that the official timestamp for the ambulance asking directions is 1:18, but is marked as "1:10" in this transcript. I believe that this is because the timestamps have been altered, yet this particular one was mistakenly overlooked and remained true. If so, then the timestamps have had 8 minutes added to them. Following are the above entries with the timestamps restored to their true values:

1:09 - Witness T.F. Bowley calls in the shooting via Tippit's radio.

1:10 - (printed as "1:10" on the transcript)  Ambulance asks the dispatcher for directions

1:11 - Ambulance arrives and the body is loaded.

1:13 - Officer Poe and Patrolman L.E. Jez arrive, and interview an excited Helen Markham.

These compare favorably with the times I have in my timeline. Following is a comparison, with timeline times labeled TL and the restored DPD radio transcript times labeled as DPD:

TL 1:09     DPD 1:09     --     Witness T.F. Bowley calls in the shooting via Tippit's radio.

TL ?:??      DPD: 1:10    --     Ambulance asks the dispatcher for directions  (NOT ON MY TIMELINE)

TL 1:10     DPD 1:11     --     Ambulance arrives and the body is loaded.

TL 1:13     DPD 1:13     --     Officer Poe and Patrolman L.E. Jez arrive, and interview an excited Helen Markham.

I consider these restored times to be accurate and will update my timeline accordingly.

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

5 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

There is now DROP-DEAD PROOF that the recordings and transcripts were altered.  John has found a report of two Dallas cops who heard the report of the Tippit shooting on the police radio and then started driving toward 10th and Patton.  On the way, they encountered the ambulance driven by Clayton Butler and followed it to Methodist Hospital.  They followed the body inside and saw medics trying to revive Tippit before declaring him dead on arrival at 1:15 PM.

Really looking forward to seeing that Jim!

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Sandy Larsen

[Jim Hargrove]

On 12/11/2018 at 7:03 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

Really looking forward to seeing that Jim!

It's still being refined, but the write-up with the DROP-DEAD PROOF of alteration of the Dallas Police radio recordings and transcript is now up on the H&L Tippit murder page.  Just follow the link below, and then search for the first instance of "Higgins."  It's in a paragraph beginning "1:06PM...."  Here's the link:

https://harveyandlee.net/Tippit/Tippit.html

[Mark Lawson]

https://harveyandlee.net/Tippit/Tippit.html

Jim, at the above-referenced Web page, you and/or Jim Armstrong write: "Reserve officer Croy most likely arrived at 10th & Patton in police car #207 with personnel officer Capt. Westbrook, and they both watched as LEE Oswald shot and killed Tippit at 1:06 PM. Westbrook drove away in police car #207...."

Further down the same page, however, you write: "Westbrook did not drive directly to the scene of the Tippit murder at 10th & Patton.... Capt. Westbrook drove his own dark blue, unmarked police car to Oak Cliff with Sgt. Stringer sitting next to him in the front seat and with Dallas Morning News reporter Jim Ewell sitting in the back seat (read Jim Ewell's account here: http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/The_deed/Sneed/Ewell.html). And an unknown police officer did NOT let Westbrook out at the scene of Tippit's murder, because Westbrook drove his unmarked police car from the Book Depository directly to the Texaco Station at 401 E. Jefferson and arrived shortly before 1:25 PM.... [italics and emphasis from the original]

Can you clarify, please? ML