New Theory Regarding Duran, Azcue, Leonov, and the Virtual Impersonation of Oswald

[Thomas Graves]

I'm throwing this evolving idea "out there" for your consideation: 

Maybe Duran and Azcue collectively and intentionally described "the man who visited the Cuban Consulate" in such a way as to very strongly suggest to knowledgeable people that it was Nikolai Leonov.  Why?  Because they knew that Leonov was KGB (or at least that he was a Russian "diplomat") and that he did not resemble Lee Harvey Oswald height-wise (5' 7" versus 5' 9.5"), age-wise (30 versus 24 23), eye-color wise (blue versus hazel-grey, iirc) nor, especially, hair color-wise (blond versus light brown) nor facial-wise (very thin versus "normal").  

"But, but, but .... Why would they do THAT, Tommy?"

Well, maybe because by doing so, Duran and Azcue were cleverly trying to communicate to the authorities that the Russians were behind a virtual impersonation of Oswald, and that Oswald hadn't even been to the Cuban Consulate.

And they might even have been pointing their fingers at Leonov, specifically, because maybe it was he who had somehow "encouraged" them to lie about Oswald, and had even provided them, at some point, with the mysterious "passport-sized" photos of LHO ....

Thoughts?

--  Tommy  

Or, if you prefer (as I suspect most Forum members will), the evil, evil CIA was behind the virtual impersonation of Oswald, and got the evil, evil DNS to force Duran and Azcue to say this (that the man was short, blond-haired, very thin-faced, etc), thinking that if researchers figured out LHO hadn't been to Mexico City, at least they would suspect that the the Ruskies had done it. Virtually impersonated Oswald, that is ...

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Sandy Larsen]

10 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

I'm throwing this evolving idea "out there" for your consideation: 

Maybe Duran and Azcue collectively and intentionally described "the man who visited the Cuban Consulate" in such a way as to very strongly suggest to knowledgeable people that it was Nikolai Leonov.  Why?  Because they knew that Leonov was KGB (or at least that he was a Russian "diplomat") and that he did not resemble Lee Harvey Oswald height-wise (5' 7" versus 5' 9.5"), age-wise (30 versus 24 23), eye-color wise (blue versus hazel-grey, iirc) nor, especially, hair color-wise (blond versus light brown) nor facial-wise (very thin versus "normal").  

"But, but, but .... Why would they do THAT, Tommy?"

Well, maybe because by doing so, Duran and Azcue were cleverly trying to communicate to the authorities that the Russians were behind a virtual impersonation of Oswald, and that Oswald hadn't even been to the Cuban Consulate.

 

Tommy,

I don't understand why the Cubans would want to implicate the Russians in the impersonation of Oswald.
 

 

10 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

And they might even have been pointing their fingers at Leonov, specifically, because maybe it was he who had somehow "encouraged" them to lie about Oswald, and had even provided them, at some point, with the mysterious "passport-sized" photos of LHO ....

 

You mean that maybe it was the Russians who impersonated Oswald? Why would they do that?

 

10 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Or, if you prefer (as I suspect most Forum members will), the evil, evil CIA was behind the virtual impersonation of Oswald, and got the evil, evil DNS to force Duran and Azcue to say this (that the man was short, blond-haired, very thin-faced, etc), thinking that if researchers figured out LHO hadn't been to Mexico City, at least they would suspect that the the Ruskies had done it. Virtually impersonated Oswald, that is ...

 

Okay, now you're making some sense. The evil, evil CIA would indeed want the U.S. authorities to think that Leonov was involved in a conspiracy between Russia, Oswald, the red-haired black guy with $6500, etc., to kill Kennedy. So that a pretext for an invasion or war would be created.

BTW, my theory is that the CIA assigned an agent whose description was like that of Leonov to impersonate Oswald at consulate. So that the Russians would be implicated in the assassination.

 

 

[Michael Walton]

13 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Or, if you prefer (as I suspect most Forum members will), the evil, evil CIA was behind the virtual impersonation of Oswald

Tom,

I'm going to try hard to not say that evil acronym here. But anyway, I look at this from the larger perspective.  Kennedy, despite having his brother run Mongoose which was pretty evil IMO but having to keep it in perspective for those times, was at least trying to reach out to Cuba and Russia both.

With that in mind, IMO, I really don't think that Russia nor Cuba had Oswald on their radars until 11/22. I think after the murder, then they of course scrambled to most probably do a CYA kind of thing. Also, Castro himself suspected something was really fishy with the murder.  He gave a speech 6 days after the murder explaining the fishiness of it.  You can find that speech on the KAK site.

I know this may not be the kind of answer you may be looking for IMO but I'm just trying to keep it real with a looking at it from 50,000 feet view.

After just reading this, I notice I didn't have a need to mention the evil acronym; however, IMO and FWIW, State Secret by Bill Simpich at least shows what the evil acronym was up to running young Lee. I'm guessing that "someone" in the evil acronym saw his usefulness including and up to 11.22. What I don't want to go too far in saying is that all of this evil cabal included the Joint Chiefs, the fine folks at Sullivan & Cromwell, the supporting cast in Stone's JFK film, Ed Walker and his Birchers, and others.

I simply don't think we'll ever know who those folks were in hatching the plan - it's all just speculation IMO. But SS does show in well documented form that it WAS being run from the time young Lee returned from Russia until 11/24.

[Paul Brancato]

If Cuba and USSR had Oswald on their radar it doesn’t necessarily mean they knew of plans to kill JFK. 

As for the evil evil KGB there is no motive for the assassination. It wasn’t the KGB that destroyed evidence that would have proved one way or another whether LHO was in MC. I think that once we accept LHO as a patsy and not as an assassin we can focus on who the assassins were. 

[Thomas Graves]

1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

If Cuba and USSR had Oswald on their radar it doesn’t necessarily mean they knew of plans to kill JFK. 

As for the evil evil KGB there is no motive for the assassination. It wasn’t the KGB that destroyed evidence that would have proved one way or another whether LHO was in MC. I think that once we accept LHO as a patsy and not as an assassin we can focus on who the assassins were. 

Paul,

How about to get revenge for the humiliation they experienced during the Cuban Missile Crisis?  Or to use the assassination of JFK to spur the creation of a legion of bewildering conspiracy theories, mostly blaming the CIA and The Far Right, so that eventually virtually everything in the U.S. would be subject to paralyzing, divisive doubt, so that eventually no one would do any fact-checking anymore, and so that eventually a Russian mobbed-up, and therefore blackmail-able, "useful idiot" like Trump could be installed by someone like KGB-boy Vladimir Putin?

--  Tommy 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Jeffrey Reilley]

42 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Paul,

How about to get revenge for the humiliation they experienced during the Cuban Missile Crisis?  Or to use the assassination of JFK to spur the creation of a legion of bewildering conspiracy theories, mostly blaming the CIA and The Far Right, so that eventually everything in the U.S. would be subject to doubt, no one would do any fact-checking anymore, and a "useful idiot" like Trump could be installed (by someone like Putin)?

--  Tommy 

That would be the longest "long game"  scenario ever. If someone thought and acted on the thought that that would be the ultimate outcome of knocking off JFK, then that person was wasting an awful lot of talent and potential. 

[Thomas Graves]

1 minute ago, Jeffrey Reilley said:

That would be the longest "long game"  scenario ever. If someone thought and acted on the thought that that would be the ultimate outcome of knocking off JFK, then that person was wasting an awful lot of talent and potential. 

Jeffrey,

Maybe it took a little longer than they expected...

--  Tommy 

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Thomas Graves said:

1 hour ago, Jeffrey Reilley said:

That would be the longest "long game"  scenario ever. If someone thought and acted on the thought that that would be the ultimate outcome of knocking off JFK, then that person was wasting an awful lot of talent and potential. 

Jeffrey,

Maybe it took a little longer than they expected...

 

Or maybe the KGB has Fifty Year Plans!  Five Year Plans being for pansy politicians.

 

[Thomas Graves]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Or maybe the KGB has Fifty Year Plans!  Five Year Plans being for pansy politicians.

 

Sandy,

Like, termites have plans?

--  Tommy 

PS  Does only the evil, evil, evil, evil CIA have long-range objectives?

Edited January 28, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Brancato]

Tommy is just pulling our legs. He doesn’t really believe this. Right Tommy? Russia humiliated over the Cuban Missile Crisis? Our big guns thought it was JFK that suffered that ignominy. Legions of conspiracy theories slowly undermining the US electorate so that eventually they would elect Donald Trump? All I can say is that if these are the the best motives you can come up with it makes your scenario extremely unlikely. There are many more likely ones.

[Thomas Graves]

4 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Tommy is just pulling our legs. He doesn’t really believe this. Right Tommy? Russia humiliated over the Cuban Missile Crisis? Our big guns thought it was JFK that suffered that ignominy. Legions of conspiracy theories slowly undermining the US electorate so that eventually they would elect Donald Trump? All I can say is that if these are the the best motives you can come up with it makes your scenario extremely unlikely. There are many more likely ones.

Paul,

How about their just wanting to

B-R-I-N-G

U-S 

D-O-W-N?

That work for you?

You know, not like a hit job followed by an immediate invasion or anything, but a hit job meant to give rise to oodles and gobs of debilitating, anti-Intelligence Community "tinfoil hat" conspiracy theories?

A hit job that might even have been called off by Khrushchev, but carried out by a well-trained Lee Harvey Oswald, anyway?

--  Tommy 

Edited January 29, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Brancato]

Is that what you think?

[Thomas Graves]

1 minute ago, Paul Brancato said:

Is that what you think?

Paul,

With all due respect, let's work backwards on this, shall we?

Have you ever heard of Cozy Bear, Fancy Bear, Guccifer 2.0?

Do you believe they were DNC or NSA insiders?  An evil CIA plot, perhaps?  George Soros in action?

Or do you believe, as do seventeen U.S. intelligence agencies, that they were Russian FSB and GRU operatives?

Regardless, do you think they helped pro-Putin (and anti-EU, anti-NATO) Donald Trump get elected, or do you think they (and Putin's legions of professional trolls in Saint Petersburg, and his bots) had nothing to do with it, and that it was just a case of lousy campaigning by that nasty woman, Hillary "Killery" Clinton?

--  Tommy 

[Paul Brancato]

Tommy - I’m asking you if you believe Oswald was a kgb asset who killed jfk?

[Thomas Graves]

26 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Tommy - I’m asking you if you believe Oswald was a kgb asset who killed jfk?

Paul,

With all due respect, I'm trying to work you through it, backwards.

--  Tommy 

But I must say, having read "Spy Wars" and "Ghosts of Spy Wars" and "Legend" and, and, and ..., well, I rather like my theory? You?

Or do you prefer to remain ignorant (by not reading those things) and go along with the (in my humble opinion) thoroughly hoodwinked "The Evil Evil CIA Did It!!!" / "The Cold War Ended in 1991!!!" crowd?

You do realize, don't you, that there's no sense in our continuing to "debate" each other until you've read those things?

Edited January 29, 2018 by Thomas Graves