First radio report on Tippit's shooting?

[Jeff Carter]

4 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

I think you'd better listen to it again. Because you're totally misrepresenting what Brewer said when he used the words "brown shirt" for the only time in that '64 interview. It was Brewer HIMSELF who was describing Oswald to Julia Postal. He wasn't referring to any radio description there. And, of course, Brewer HIMSELF could easily see that Oswald was wearing a "brown shirt". So that's what he told Postal.

Brewer uses the term "description" to refer to the alleged radio broadcast that caused him to identify the suspect, and identifies the brown shirt as "part of the description". 

Your collections of material are much appreciated, and in this case they indicate there was no radio broadcast 15 minutes after the shooting which could have provided Brewer with a "description". The reporting which did occur some minutes later refers to a suspect in a white shirt.

[Tony Krome]

22 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

When did he say that?

Brewer said that to ex-detective Ian Griggs back in 1996 when he was interviewed

[David Von Pein]

24 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

Brewer said that to ex-detective Ian Griggs back in 1996 when he was interviewed.

OK. Thanks.

Edited April 19, 2019 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

26 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:

Brewer uses the term "description" to refer to the alleged radio broadcast that caused him to identify the suspect, and identifies the brown shirt as "part of the description". 

Please point out to me where within this video John Brewer ever utters the words "part of the description". You're not going to find any such utterance by Brewer in that interview.

Plus, why would Brewer need to rely on anybody else's description of the man when he (Brewer) can see for himself that Oswald was wearing a "brown shirt"?

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

2 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

Your collections of material are much appreciated, and in this case they indicate there was no radio broadcast 15 minutes after the shooting which could have provided Brewer with a "description". The reporting which did occur some minutes later refers to a suspect in a white shirt.

But it depends on which "shooting" you're referring to. If you mean the Tippit shooting, then I think you're right---there was no radio report regarding the shooter's description put out within 15 minutes (or so) of the Tippit murder. But there was most definitely a "description" of President Kennedy's assassin broadcast on the radio, and that description was aired on KLIF Radio (the station that Tony Krome just said Brewer was listening to) as early as 12:54 PM (Dallas time), which would corroborate what Brewer said to Eddie Barker in his CBS-TV interview in 1964 when Brewer said this:

"Right after the President was shot, they broadcast a description on the radio of this man..."

If, in fact, Brewer was listening to KLIF Radio that day, the description he would have heard at 12:54 PM would have initially come from a female telephone operator at the Dallas Police Department, who quickly provided the description of the alleged Presidential assassin for a KLIF reporter who was recording the phone call for later broadcast. The description she provided was: "White male, 30 [years old], 5-10, 165, 30-caliber rifle, and I believe it was at Elm and Houston where it came from; now I don't know definitely and I don't like to say." [The audio can be heard below.]

https://drive.google.com/file/KLIF-Radio Bulletin (12:54 PM CST)

And then, two minutes later at 12:56 PM, KLIF's Gary DeLaune repeats the description (a little slower and clearer this time, with DeLaune adding two key words---"slender build"---to the description):

https://drive.google.com/file/KLIF-Radio Bulletin (12:56 PM CST)

For the record, the "5-10, 165 pounds" description was repeated again just three minutes later on KLIF, at 12:59 PM CST, and then yet again four minutes later at 1:03 PM.

That description that was aired multiple times by KLIF, of course, doesn't quite match Johnny Brewer's figures that he provided in his '64 CBS interview. He said in that interview that the description he heard concerning Kennedy's assassin (not the description of Tippit's killer) was "5-8, 5-9, 150 pounds", which is not accurate. But that error can likely be attributed to a slightly bad memory on Mr. Brewer's part.

But there is one KLIF bulletin (aired at 1:08 PM) which says that the assassin of JFK was "approximately 5 feet, 8 inches tall [and] weighs about 160 pounds".

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by David Von Pein

[Joseph McBride]

DVP is trying to get away with repeating the WC lie about the time of the Tippit shooting. Tippit most likely was shot at about 1:08 or 1:09, perhaps

as early as 1:06, and not 1:14 or 1:15.

As most readers of this forum realize, that lie was spread to give the alleged lone nut shooter enough time to get from his rooming house on foot to shoot Tippit -- which

Oswald did not do.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Joseph McBride

[David Von Pein]

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/tippit-timelines.html

[Tony Krome]

48 minutes ago, Joseph McBride said:

DVP is trying to get away with repeating the WC lie about the time of the Tippit shooting. Tippit most likely was shot at about 1:08 or 1:09, perhaps

as early as 1:06, and not 1:14 or 1:15.

As most readers of this forum realize, that lie was spread to give the alleged lone nut shooter enough time to get from his rooming house on foot to shoot Tippit -- which

Oswald did not do.

Joseph, while your here, I've got a question for you;

What time and where, was Tippit identified by someone that knew him?

Was it at Methodist?

[Jim Hargrove]

54 minutes ago, Joseph McBride said:

DVP is trying to get away with repeating the WC lie about the time of the Tippit shooting. Tippit most likely was shot at about 1:08 or 1:09, perhaps

as early as 1:06, and not 1:14 or 1:15.

As most readers of this forum realize, that lie was spread to give the alleged lone nut shooter enough time to get from his rooming house on foot to shoot Tippit -- which

Oswald did not do.

Thank you, Mr. McBride.  I was getting set to jump in here about this very issue.  

After Officer Tippit’s body was placed in an ambulance and taken to Methodist Hospital, Dallas cops Davenport and Bardin helped carry Tippit into the emergency room and watched as medics tried to revive him.  

Dr. Richard Liguori declared Tippit dead at 1:15 pm.

[David Von Pein]

13 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Dr. Richard Liguori declared Tippit dead at 1:15 pm.

From Dale Myers (in 2015)....

---- Quote On: ----

"The death certificate "discrepancy" - as I noted in "With Malice" - was explained during a 1983 interview I conducted with the late Dr. Paul Moellenhoff, who attended Tippit at Methodist. He told me that the clocks within the emergency area at Methodist showed different times - neither of them accurate as it turns out.

He used the 1:15 p.m. time shown on one of the clocks. The time reported to the FBI by Dr. Liquori (With Malice [WM], 2013 [edition], p.557) - 1:24 pm - is probably the accurate one based on the recorded timing of Bowley's call, the recorded departure of the ambulance from 10th and Patton, and the known drive time from 10th and Patton to Methodist Hospital.

DPD Officer Davenport noted that Moellenhoff removed one slug from Tippit's body at 1:30 pm (WM 2013 p.536). That same time (1:30 pm) made its way into Leavelle's homicide report (WM 2013 p.519) as the time Tippit was pronounced DOA (which couldn't possibly be true, right? You don't pull a slug from a body until after he's pronounced dead). This matches up with Moellenhoff's 1983 recollection that he removed a slug from the body within ten minutes of declaring Tippit DOA.

My caption under the death certificate (WM 2013 p.506) seeks to clarify the discrepancy between the Time of Injury (1:18 pm) and the time Death Occurred (1:15 pm). Again, it stems from my conversation with Dr. Moellenhoff. The 1:18 pm time, of course, probably refers to the time that Bowley's radio call was received - not the actual time Tippit was shot.

The 1:15 p.m. notation (although close in time to the actual moment of the shooting, as far as I can calculate) probably stems from Dr. Moellenhoff's use of an inaccurate Methodist emergency room clock.

Interesting, huh? All this fuss because no one at Methodist bothered to synchronize the clocks to actual time (some running fast, some running slow).

Can you imagine how many other death certificates were marked with times that were off by a few minutes? But what does it matter in those cases? Not one whit."

-- Dale K. Myers; February 7, 2015

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/tippit-timelines.html

Edited April 20, 2019 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

On 4/18/2019 at 7:01 AM, David Von Pein said:

If, in fact, Johnny Brewer definitely did hear a radio report about a policeman being shot prior to the time when Brewer saw Lee Oswald lurking in the doorway of the shoe store, I can say with some certainty that one of the stations that Brewer was definitely not listening to on 11/22/63 was KLIF Radio in Dallas....[But, then again, maybe he was; see the footnote below]....

FOOTNOTE --- After re-examining my KLIF-Radio file, I've now discovered that there are 7 minutes of missing audio footage in the first 2-and-a-half hours of my 3-hour and 17-minute copy of KLIF's 11/22/63 assassination coverage. From the timestamps provided by the on-air reporters, I've been able to determine that the missing seven minutes occur between precisely 1:37 PM and 1:44 PM (CST). This, therefore, leaves open the possibility that a bulletin concerning the Tippit shooting could have been broadcast by KLIF during the AWOL seven-minute period. However, if such a bulletin was broadcast during that time period, it would likely have been at a time when Johnny Brewer wasn't even inside his Hardy's Shoe Store to hear the bulletin on his transistor radio, because Brewer by that time had probably already left his store and followed Oswald up the street to the Texas Theater. But we must always keep in mind the fact that nobody was looking at a stopwatch or a clock when these events were unfolding on Jefferson Boulevard in Oak Cliff on November 22nd, so the word "approximately" must always be inserted into discussions like this one when we're talking about "timelines", etc.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/Johnny Brewer And The Shooting Of J.D. Tippit

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by David Von Pein

[Tony Krome]

27 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

FOOTNOTE --- After re-examining my KLIF-Radio file, I've now discovered that there are 7 minutes of missing audio footage in the first 2-and-a-half hours of my 3-hour and 17-minute copy of KLIF's 11/22/63 assassination coverage. From the timestamps provided by the on-air reporters, I've been able to determine that the missing seven minutes occur between precisely 1:37 PM and 1:44 PM (CST). This, therefore, leaves open the possibility that a bulletin concerning the Tippit shooting could have been broadcast by KLIF during the AWOL seven-minute period.

Julia Postal was listening to KLIF

She said to the police when she phoned them;

I said I hadn't heard the description. All I know is, "This man is running from them for some reason."

[David Von Pein]

6 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Julia Postal was listening to KLIF

She said to the police when she phoned them;

I said I hadn't heard the description.

And yet we know for a fact that KLIF definitely did broadcast a "description" of a "suspect" (in the Kennedy murder), and KLIF re-broadcast that description at least three times before 1:10 PM. And yet Julia apparently heard none of those re-broadcasts, even though she WAS listening to KLIF.  ~shrug~

Or are you going to LIMIT it to a description of TIPPIT'S killer (from Postal's POV)? Even though Postal was obviously NOT (in her mind) limiting any "description" of the suspect to JUST the shooting of the police officer....

MRS. JULIA POSTAL --...so, I told Johnny about the fact that the President had been assassinated. "I don't know if this is the man they want," I said, "in there, but he is running from them for some reason," and I said "I am going to call the police..."

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by David Von Pein

[Tony Krome]

39 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

MRS. JULIA POSTAL --...so, I told Johnny about the fact that the President had been assassinated.

What's your take on the above statement?

It was after the police arrived, during the "chaos" that Postal heard on KLIF that Kennedy was dead (assassinated)

Mr. BALL. And did you find out that he had died here? That President Kennedy was dead or---- 
Mrs. POSTAL. No, sir; I didn't. 
Mr. BALL. You didn't hear that? 
Mrs. POSTAL. I was listening to KLIF, and I was down in the little box office, and they kept saying that Parkland hadn't issued an official report, that he had been removed from the operating table, and everyone wanted to surmise, but still hope, and it was after this that they came out and said that he was officially dead. 
Mr. BALL. But, you didn't hear that when you were in the box office, did you? 
Mrs. POSTAL. Yes, I did. In fact, I was just about----it was just about the time all chaos broke loose.

Did she mean she told Brewer that Kennedy had been shot?

[David Von Pein]

8 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

What's your take on the above statement?

[...]

Did she mean she told Brewer that Kennedy had been shot?

I can't see how it makes much difference, since Brewer obviously already knew that information himself.

I hope you're not hinting at the idea that Johnny Brewer really didn't listen to ANY radio broadcasts on 11/22 and that he just LATER made up a story about listening to the radio bulletins before spotting Oswald near his store.

Tell me you're not travelling down that bumpy road, Tony.