Was it really just a MOLE HUNT about "Oswald?"

[John Butler]

A Movie deal?  That might be a good idea to reawaken interest, national interest in the Kennedy assassination again.  Oliver Stone or someone of the same rep does Harvey and Lee in a manner such as the Stone movie.  Wouldn't that get the debate going again in a big way?  Can't you see the screaming media headlines proclaiming that who ever produced or directed the movie were telling outrageous lies and bending reality?  Maybe Gary Oldman would come back and play an older Oswald hiding out in Hungary or some place for years who finally decides to tell the truth.    

Edited June 17, 2020 by John Butler

[Paul Brancato]

46 minutes ago, John Butler said:

A Movie deal?  That might be a good idea to reawaken interest, national interest in the Kennedy assassination again.  Oliver Stone or someone of the same rep does Harvey and Lee in a manner such as the Stone movie.  Wouldn't that get the debate going again in a big way?  Can't you see the screaming media headlines proclaiming that who ever produced or directed the movie were telling outrageous lies and bending reality?  Maybe Gary Oldman would come back and play an older Oswald hiding out in Hungary or some place for years who finally decides to tell the truth.    

Good idea for a hook into the story. 

[W. Tracy Parnell]

1 hour ago, John Butler said:

Isn't this the same kind of false reasoning assigned to Jim Hargrove?

A question that has always bothered me about Marguerite Oswald is why she went to New York and stayed for a year and half or whatever time she and Oswald were there.  The reasons given in most accounts don't make sense to me.  What did New York have that Dallas didn't?  If you can respond and then Jim Hargrove also I would very much appreciate the response.

John,

It is reasonable to assume that the reporter obtained the information from press reports at the time of LHO's defection. It is a standard technique for them to go back and do that. Robert believed that LHO had attended Stripling but he was mistaken.

As for Marguerite, she told the WC that she had moved to NY to be close to John Pic. She was probably hoped to "sponge off" of him (just my opinion).

[Jim Hargrove]

2 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

This report was based on Robert Oswald's statements to the media at the time of LHO's defection. The "witnesses" are either lying or mis-remembering Robert who did attend Stripling.

Let’s get this straight.  Your contention is that in this article published in the Fort Worth Star Telegram less than two days after the assassination of JFK, the witnesses were either lying or confused?

You do know that this newspaper and Stripling School were both in Fort Worth, Texas, right?  And this lying and confusion was all the fault of Frank Kudlaty and Jack White, who conspired within hours of the assassination of  JFK to confuse us all? 

Do you not find it embarrassing to make such an argument?  No wonder you and Mr. Bojczuk prefer to just provide links elsewhere attempting to make people believe this research has been “debunked.”
 

[John Butler]

18 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

As for Marguerite, she told the WC that she had moved to NY to be close to John Pic. She was probably hoped to "sponge off" of him (just my opinion).

Thanks Tracy,

That sounds reasonable.  But, once she was tossed out of the Fuhrman household why would she continue to stay in New York?  I had read somewhere she went to New York to obtain testing on Oswald.  Perhaps mental or personality testing?

[Jim Hargrove]

2 hours ago, John Butler said:

Isn't this the same kind of false reasoning assigned to Jim Hargrove?

A question that has always bothered me about Marguerite Oswald is why she went to New York and stayed for a year and half or whatever time she and Oswald were there.  The reasons given in most accounts don't make sense to me.  What did New York have that Dallas didn't?  If you can respond and then Jim Hargrove also I would very much appreciate the response.

John,

New York City was a prefect place to introduce the two Oswalds into the public record and give them similar experiences.  The huge and culturally diverse city was divided into five boroughs.  Each borough had a series of public schools that were assigned numbers and the numbers were repeated in each borough.  For example, there were schools named Public School 44 in at least four of the five boroughs (I’m not sure about Staten Island).

This somewhat confusing situation, as well as the sheer enormity of NYC, is surely the reason the woman you call Mysterious Marge brought her “son” to NYC.  It would be easy to merge school records and create mutual somewhat matching memories in the event any future Soviet investigation ultimately delved into them.  John A. goes into this in detail HERE.

[Jim Hargrove]

Lee HARVEY Oswald attended Stripling School in the fall semester of 1954.  Fran Schubert, an 8th grade student at Stripling that year, ate her lunch on the school grounds every day and watched Oswald as he walked across the street to his house at 2220 Thomas Place for lunch.

click here for 1997 interview with Fran Schubert

According to Mr. Parnell, she is lying.

Frank Kudlaty was assistant principal of Stripling in 1963 when he met with two FBI agents less than 24 hours after the assassination and handed them Oswald’s Stripling School records.

click here for 1997 interview with Frank Kudlaty

According to Mr. Parnell, he is also lying.

Mr. Parnell also believes that all the numerous newspaper  accounts stating LHO went to Stripling are either confused or based on lies, including the Fort Worth Star Telegram article shown above published less than two days after the assassination of JFK.

All of this, according to Mr. Parnell, is the fault of Jack White and Frank Kudlaty, who conspired to make things up just to confuse us all.  There is, of course, a far simpler explanation.

[John Butler]

Thanks Jim,

I still don't see New York vs. Dallas.  Everything Mysterious Marge did in New York could have been done in Dallas to provide cover for a possible Soviet investigation.  She and Oswald remain in New York for over a year after leaving John Pic and the Fuhrman household.  If she was looking to give the Oswalds similar cultural experiences, in other words have Lee experience the diversity that Harvey had prior to 1947 might be reasonable. 

This line of reasoning would have the Oswald Project beginning as a defection program.  This is in tune with the research on Allen Dulles and Frank Wisner's, who very well could be the OSS (later CIA) founders of the project, offensive philosophy towards the Soviet Union as we have discussed earlier in another thread.

I have no evidence for this, but just speculation at this point.  So, don't go off on this speculation as a threat to the Harvey and Lee story.  The boys, Harvey and Lee, may have been rebelling at their fate in life.  Boys usually begin rebelling about something at that age.  My speculation is that Harvey was trying to get out of his circumstances and had to be taken back to New York and have the people who raised him there do a re-conditioning of his mind set.  It's a dumb idea, but one that keeps surfacing.  That's because I still can't see why the sojourn in New York. 

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by John Butler

[W. Tracy Parnell]

33 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Let’s get this straight.  Your contention is that in this article published in the Fort Worth Star Telegram less than two days after the assassination of JFK, the witnesses were either lying or confused?

Yes, they were confusing LHO, who ALL of the evidence shows never attended Stripling, with his brother Robert who did.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

55 minutes ago, John Butler said:

But, once she was tossed out of the Fuhrman household why would she continue to stay in New York?

I don't know for sure, possibly because it is not easy to move. But the continuing legal process with LHO finally compelled her to do so.

Edited June 17, 2020 by W. Tracy Parnell

[W. Tracy Parnell]

16 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

According to Mr. Parnell, she is lying.

The witnesses such as Schubert and Kudlaty aren't lying in the normal sense. They are taking experiences they had 40 plus years ago and applying them to the H&L situation AFTER being coached by Armstrong and Jack White. There is a natural desire to be associated with an historical event. For example, Kudlaty never associated anything sinister to the FBI visit he received (assuming it really happened) until he spoke with White.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

37 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

There is, of course, a far simpler explanation.

And that simpler explanation is the H&L theory?

The simple explanation is Robert mistakenly told the newspapers in 1959 that LHO had attended Stripling. He would have if he had not gone to NY but Robert had his timeline mixed up. Unfortunately, his remarks became a part of the "historical record." Newspapers are an important source of information but they are an "immediate" source and as such are not always accurate. Robert also told the WC that LHO attended Stripling which is what he believed. Which is amazing since, according to the H&L theory, he was working for the CIA who would not have wanted this "information" pointing to 2 Oswalds to come out.

Greg Parker has debunked the Kudlaty thing repeatedly. You can go to his site and read a good discussion on it. Armstrong and White were not acting as journalists as David Lifton did when he spoke to McBride, but as activists and advocates for the H&L theory. Their methods were single-mindedly designed to produce one result.

Edited June 17, 2020 by W. Tracy Parnell

[Sandy Larsen]

On 6/16/2020 at 2:42 PM, W. Tracy Parnell said:

On 6/16/2020 at 11:42 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Now Tracy, you know very well that none of those supposed Greg Parker debunkings in fact debunk anything. I've asked you many times in the past to explain how they debunk and you have never been able to explain.

 

You (and lurkers) can go right to Greg's site and read his explanation Sandy. In fact, he addresses your arguments and you by name. Like it or not, it is an alternate explanation on how to read the records. You're not claiming it doesn't exist like Jim used to are you? That's why web sites exists-so you don't have to type things over and over.

 

No Tracy, I'm not claiming that Greg Parker's alternate explanations don't exist. I'm claiming that they don't  debunk any of the H&L evidence. I say that because what he does for the most part is say that the H&L evidence is a series of clerical and other errors. Anybody can make that claim about anything, but it doesn't make it so.

Compare how my methodology for evaluating H&L evidence works compared to Greg's:

Evidence for two Oswalds:

School records indicate that Oswald took classes full time at Public School 44 in NYC. For the very same period of time, other school records indicate that Oswald took classes part time at Beauregard Junior High in NO.

Greg Parker's analysis:

Oswald cannot attend two schools at the same time. Therefore the school records for one of those schools must have a semester's worth of clerical errors in it.

Sandy Larsen's analysis:

There are two possibilities. Either Greg Parker is right, or there are two Oswalds attending the two schools. If this were the only evidence pointing to two Oswalds, I would agree with Greg Parker and say there is only one Oswald. But there is a lot of other evidence pointing to two Oswalds, too much to call it all clerical errors. I therefore conclude that, while Greg may be right on this one point, it's more likely that he is wrong.

But no matter what the case, and even if I were to agree with Greg Parker, what he has done cannot be called a debunking. It is merely an opinion.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

11 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Greg Parker has debunked the Kudlaty thing repeatedly.

There's that word "debunked" again. In "Tracy-speak" it means that Greg Parker disagrees with Kudlaty.

If I'm wrong Tracy, tell us all how Parker debunked what Kudlaty said.

 

[Jim Hargrove]

Meet the man Tracy Parnell
claims was lying to us

Frank Kudlaty, assistant principal in 1963 of Stripling JHS in Fort Worth, went on to become the Superintendent of Schools for Waco, Texas, where he retired in 1986. According to this write-up at legacy.com, Mr. Kudlaty “earned his BA degree from TCU on a basketball scholarship. He earned a Masters of Education from TCU, a Doctorate in Education from NTSU and was a Doctoral Fellow at Yale.”

The write-up goes on to say that, among other responsibilities, Mr Kudlaty was a 15-year volunteer with Meals on Wheels and served on the board of directors of the Salvation Army for 27 years.

Of course, Mr. Parnell simply has no choice but to say this obviously well educated and generous man was lying to us.  According to school documents published by the Warren Commission, there was simply no time for one Lee Harvey Oswald to have attended Stripling School, and so it all had to go away, including the school records Mr. Kudlaty gave the FBI agents, even though it was and remains common knowledge among local residents, including Fran Schubert,  that LHO did attend school there. Nearly a dozen newspaper articles and Robert Oswald’s own sworn testimony support that simple fact.

click here for 1997 interview with Frank Kudlaty