History Channel Program

[Robert Howard]

Pat:

I don't think there are ANY coincidences in this case. 

Ford knows a LOT in my opinion.  Wish there was a way to force him to talk.

Perhaps Boggs was airing his misgivings at that breakfast,

and Gerry was tryinng to placate him. Hard to know.

But as I wrote earlier, when I heard about this missing plane

my "intuition" was that Nixon had something done to Boggs.

Then,  when just a few weeks later Dorothy Hunt's plane went down (12/8/72)

and three of Tricky's top people went to cover up--I mean "investigate" this plane crash - there was NO DOUBT in my mind that RN had Dorothy Hunt and others killed. (Ironically the pilot on the DH plane was named "Captain Whitehouse")

Dawn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There have been episodes during LBJ and Nixon's administrations of the skeleton in the closet (the JFK assasination) when viewing the voluminous amount of "material" that exists from 1963 and before to 2005 it is easy to lose ones focus at times, but this info. that Pat has discovered could be the closest the govt. has come to letting the cat out of the bag, especially when you consider the fact that Hunt was more or less blackmailing Nixon and the plane crash in Chicago of the plane carrying Dorothy Hunt and other Watergate related figures as Dawn pointed out. I have often wondered if the oft chronicled mental deterioration of both Nixon and LBJ might have alot to do with the Kennedy assassination.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Pat:

I don't think there are ANY coincidences in this case. 

Ford knows a LOT in my opinion.  Wish there was a way to force him to talk.

Perhaps Boggs was airing his misgivings at that breakfast,

and Gerry was tryinng to placate him. Hard to know.

But as I wrote earlier, when I heard about this missing plane

my "intuition" was that Nixon had something done to Boggs.

Then,  when just a few weeks later Dorothy Hunt's plane went down (12/8/72)

and three of Tricky's top people went to cover up--I mean "investigate" this plane crash - there was NO DOUBT in my mind that RN had Dorothy Hunt and others killed. (Ironically the pilot on the DH plane was named "Captain Whitehouse")

Dawn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There have been episodes during LBJ and Nixon's administrations of the skeleton in the closet (the JFK assasination) when viewing the voluminous amount of "material" that exists from 1963 and before to 2005 it is easy to lose ones focus at times, but this info. that Pat has discovered could be the closest the govt. has come to letting the cat out of the bag, especially when you consider the fact that Hunt was more or less blackmailing Nixon and the plane crash in Chicago of the plane carrying Dorothy Hunt and other Watergate related figures as Dawn pointed out. I have often wondered if the oft chronicled mental deterioration of both Nixon and LBJ might have alot to do with the Kennedy assassination.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Robert, surpressed guilt manifest's itself in serious mental health problems, of course you have to posess a degree of empathic reaction for this to happen, which lets psychopaths off the hook. This is why they make such great politicians.

[Ron Ecker]

I don't think that LBJ and Nixon had an empathic bone in their bodies. You don't have a string of people murdered, including allegedly your own sister, or send a hundred or so people off to their deaths on a plane with Dorothy Hunt, if you feel any empathy for other human beings. This is Mafia-type stuff ("It was just business," as the guy in the Godfather said, after his failed attempt to off Michael.)

Now if you want repressed guilt and empathic reaction, Maxwell Taylor has been described twice as becoming emotional, choking up, about the assassination, once a year after the fact, and once years afterward. And this was a hardened soldier. To me that's repressed guilt and empathic reaction writ large.

Ron

[Pat Speer]

I don't think that LBJ and Nixon had an empathic bone in their bodies. You don't have a string of people murdered, including allegedly your own sister, or send a hundred or so people off to their deaths on a plane with Dorothy Hunt, if you feel any empathy for other human beings. This is Mafia-type stuff ("It was just business," as the guy in the Godfather said, after his failed attempt to off Michael.)

Ron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree, Ron. I think both Johnson and Nixon harbored a tremendous amount of guilt about the assassination, if only survivor's guilt. They were both torn, however, because to keep Bobby and then Teddy away they had to constantly minimize Kennedy. So they were in this death struggle with a ghost. The result was truly Shakespearian. One can see in Nixon's having Hunt doctor the Diem assassination memos his efforts to purge himself of this ghost. In Monica Crowley's book Nixon Off the Record she reports that even in old age Nixon was prone to go off on tirades about how over-rated Kennedy was blah blah blah. He couldn't get over him. Methinks there may have even been a homo-erotic element to it; Jack had all the skills and privileges Nixon WISHED he had, and he was charming; at the risk of being trite, perhaps the Kennedy assassination was nothing more than Mr. Ripley goes to Washington.

Someone like Max Holland who has no interest in the assassination itself SHOULD write a book similar to Woodward's book Shadow about Watergate, except on the Kennedy assassination and its long shadow over American politics.

[Tim Gratz]

Dawn wrote:

I don't think there are ANY coincidences in this case.

Reminds me of the old canard: "All generalizations are false."

Dawn, there is not a SINGLE coincidence in the case? Every unusual event or fact is tied to the conspiracy?

How about DeMohrenschildt's relationship with Jackie Kennedy's mother? Most people think deMohrenschildt was part of the conspiracy. So how was Mrs. Kennedy's mother involved? Or was her relationship with one of the conspirators only coincidental?

I am sure others can come up with other unusual facts that must be purely coincidental.

There are coincidences. They also occur in the course of everyday life, as you must know.

[Dawn Meredith]

[COLOR=blue] Methinks there may have even been a homo-erotic element to it; Jack had all the skills and privileges Nixon WISHED he had, and he was charming; at the risk of being trite, perhaps the Kennedy assassination was nothing more than Mr. Ripley goes to Washington.

Interesting observation "homo-erotic element". RN had an absolute obcession with people whom he preveived as adversariers who were good looking, and eastern establishment. "Homo-erotic" may better explain this than jealousy.

Someone like Max Holland who has no interest in the assassination itself SHOULD write a book similar to Woodward's book Shadow about Watergate, except on the Kennedy assassination and its long shadow over American politics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would not trust ANYTHING witten by Max Holland with any relation to the assassination, even just its effect. Holland is way too biased against the truth, imho.

Dawn

[Pat Speer]

I would not trust ANYTHING  witten by Max Holland  with any relation to the assassination, even just its effect.  Holland is way too biased against the truth, imho.

Dawn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I just watched a video of Gary Aguilar's 2002 COPA presentation on Holland, and I suspect you're right. He's not much better than Posner. His determination to prop up LBJ and the Warren Commission as nothing but noble makes me questionn the intentions behind his assassination tapes book. It could very well be he wanted to beat a conspiracist to the punch so he could give it the proper spin.

[Tim Gratz]

His book "The Assassination Tapes" is important in publishing the tape transcripts, even if you disagree with his editorial comments.

Pat's catching the coincidental (?) timing of Nixon's breakfast meeting followed by his meeting with Helms is important but what actually transpired must remain speculative unless Gerald Ford decides to talk about it.

So perhaps we should be cautious not to get bogged down in the speculation.

Edited September 16, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Mark Knight]

Tim, all I can add is that it IS truly sad when someone like yourself, hardy and HALE, BOGGS down in the muck and the mire that is the speculation about what is and isn't coincidence.

Is it coincidence? Perhaps we should wait and FORD that stream when we get there. Just don't keep NIXON the idea...seems like we're all at the HELMS of separate ships in this line of inquiry.

[Tim Gratz]

Mark scores a ten on that post! Notice how he even slipped in the name of the manager of the TSBD into the mix!

Edited September 18, 2005 by Tim Gratz