William Kelly Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 (edited) Oswald - Through the Window Glass - Physics Proves Oswald's Innocence Besides the assassin wearing a white shirt, while Oswald wore a brown one, and the assassin sticking around the Sniper's Nest for four to five minutes, possibly rearranging the boxes, there is hard physical evidence of Oswald's being innocent because of his presence on the second floor within a minute and a half after the assassination. When Roy Truly and Dallas police officer Marion Baker entered the TSBD within a minute of the last shot, they immediately went to the back of the building and began assending the stairs. Truly was ahead of Baker, but it was Baker who saw a man in the small window of the door leading to the vestibule of the Second Floor lunchroom. Truly continued up the stairs but Baker stopped and looked in the window and saw a man in the lunchroom, and opened the door, drew his gun and stopped the man as he was about to buy a coke. Truly appeared and said the man, Oswald, was an employee, and the two then continued up the stairs. After testifying before the Warren Commission, Truly was recalled and placed under oath again and asked ONE question - did the door to the Second Floor lunchoom have an automatic closing mechanism. Yes. And when seen in the blueprints of the building, the vestibule has TWO doors, one from the west, the one Baker saw Oswald through, and one to the south. If the one to the west was even partially open, as if Oswald had just passed through there as he had to in order to be the assassin, then the window would have been smaller, as physics will tell you - and Oswald would have been to the left, having already entered the lunchroom. For Baker to have seen Oswald through that window, the door would have had to be closed, and Oswald would have had to have entered the vestibule through the South door, coming from the offices or the men's room or the first floor where he said he was at the time of the assassination. When the Secret Service began to film their "reenactment" to prove the scenario they wanted to prove, they STOP at that door, knowing that if they open the door, you can no longer see through the window and Oswald is innocent. So they don't bother to go any further and follow the Patsy out of the TSBD and to the bus and to the cab and to the rooming house and to 10th and Patton and to the Theater, because he is no longer a suspect in the assassination. Presumed Guilty -How and why the Warren Commission framed Lee Harvey Oswald. A factual account based on the Commission's public and private documents. by Howard Roffman http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/PG/PG.pdf p. 113 The circumstances surrounding the lunchroom encounter indicate that Oswald entered the lunchroom not by the vestibule door from without, as he would have had he descended from the sixth floor, but through a hallway leading into the vestibule. The outer vestibule door is closed automatically by a closing mechanism on the door (7H591). When Truly arrived on the second floor, he did not see Oswald entering the vestibule (R151). For the Commission's case to be valid, Oswald must have entered the vestibule through the first door before Truly arrived. Baker reached the second floor immediately after Truly and caught a fleeting glimpse of Oswald in the vestibule through a small window in the outer door. Although Baker said the vestibule door "might have been, you know, closing and almost shut at that time" (3H255), it is dubious that he could have distinguished whether the door was fully or "almost" closed. Baker's and Truly's observations are not at all consistent with Oswald's having entered the vestibule through the first door. Had Oswald done this, he could have been inside the lunchroom well before the automatic mechanism closed the vestibule door. Truly's testimony that he saw no one entering the vestibule indicates either that Oswald was already in the vestibule at this time or was approaching it from another source. However, had Oswald already entered the vestibule when Truly arrived on the second floor, it is doubtful that he would have remained there long enough for Baker to see him seconds later. Likewise, the fact that neither man saw the mechanically closed door in motion is cogent evidence that Oswald did not enter the vestibule through that door. One of the crucial aspects of Baker's story is his position at the time he caught a "fleeting glimpse" of a man in the vestibule. Baker marked this position during his testimony as having been immediately adjacent to the stairs at the northwest corner of the building (3H256; CE 497). "I was just stepping out on to the second floor when I caught this glimpse of this man through this doorway," said Baker. It should be noted that the Report never mentions Baker's position at the time he saw Oswald in the vestibule (R149-51). Instead, it prints a floor plan of the second floor and notes Baker's position "when he observed Oswald in lunchroom" (R150). This location, as indicated in the Report, was immediately outside the vestibule door (see CE 1118). The reader of the Report is left with the impression that Baker saw Oswald in the vestibule as well from this position. However, Baker testified explicitly that he first caught a glimpse of the man in the vestibule from the stairs and, upon running to the vestibule door, saw Oswald in the lunchroom (3H256). The Report's failure to point out Baker's position is significant. Had Oswald descended from the sixth floor, his path through the vestibule into the lunchroom would have been confined to the north wall of the vestibule. Yet the line of sight from Baker's position at the steps does not include any area near the north wall. From the steps, Baker could have seen only one area in the vestibule—the southeast portion. The only way Oswald could have been in this area on his way to the lunchroom is if he entered the vestibule through the southernmost door, as the previously cited testimony indicates he did. Oswald could not have entered the vestibule in this manner had he just descended from the sixth floor. The only way he could have gotten to the southern door is from the first floor up through either a large office space or an adjacent corridor. As the Report concedes, Oswald told police he had eaten his lunch on the first floor and gone up to the second to purchase a coke when he encountered an officer (R182). Thus, Oswald had an alibi. Had he been the sixth-floor gunman, he would have arrived at the lunchroom at least 5 seconds after Baker did, probably more. It is extremely doubtful that he could have entered the vestibule through the first door without Baker's or Truly's having seen the door in motion. Oswald's position in the vestibule when seen by Baker was consistent only with his having come up from the first floor as he told the police. Oswald could not have been the assassin. http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...22_CE_1118.pdf http://www.dealey.org/updown.pdf Show me where this analysis is wrong and I'll change my mind. - BK Edited February 7, 2010 by William Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David S. Brownlee Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 It must have been a wild time in LHO's brain...he wasn't a stupid man...he had to be figuring it all on the fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted February 7, 2010 Author Share Posted February 7, 2010 It must have been a wild time in LHO's brain...he wasn't a stupid man...he had to be figuring it all on the fly. He had to figure what Dave? That he was being set up as the Patsy? When did he realize that? BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David S. Brownlee Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 It must have been a wild time in LHO's brain...he wasn't a stupid man...he had to be figuring it all on the fly. He had to figure what Dave? That he was being set up as the Patsy? When did he realize that? BK Exactly...(depending on how deeply he was involved - or not at all)..."when did he realize that" is the question. It's difficult to believe that LHO was a true patsy - what with all his Mil/Intel connections...but at what time did he realize he was being double crossed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 It must have been a wild time in LHO's brain...he wasn't a stupid man...he had to be figuring it all on the fly. He had to figure what Dave? That he was being set up as the Patsy? When did he realize that? BK Exactly...(depending on how deeply he was involved - or not at all)..."when did he realize that" is the question. It's difficult to believe that LHO was a true patsy - what with all his Mil/Intel connections...but at what time did he realize he was being double crossed? A very perceptive observation that few make...OSWALD WAS DOUBLE-CROSSED by his sponsors. This is a crucial element of the plot. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Benson Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Exactly...(depending on how deeply he was involved - or not at all)..."when did he realize that" is the question. It's difficult to believe that LHO was a true patsy - what with all his Mil/Intel connections...but at what time did he realize he was being double crossed? One thing that has always bother me about LHO at the TSBD is this . . . . Many here believe that LHO had advance knowledge of the assassination plot; so do I. But if LHO was part of the plot, wouldn't he expect to have a 'role', since the motorcade was passing right in front of the TSBD! Wouldn't he expect to be at minimum a 'spotter' or to add confusion in the plaza afterward. If LHO was a co-conspirator, how come he had no role in the assassination?? Or did he think the assassination was planned for the TradeMart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted February 8, 2010 Author Share Posted February 8, 2010 (edited) CE 742 Photograph showing outside to the second floor lunchroom of the TSBD building. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/ce742.jpg CE 743 Photograph of stairway in southwest corner of the second floor of the TSBD building, leading to the first floor. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/ce743.jpg CE 741 Photograph of the lunchrom on the second floor of the TSBD bulding. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/ce741.jpg Edited February 8, 2010 by William Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Hinrichs Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 (edited) Thank you Bill for bring up this Topic again. Your concerns are more than valid and the evidence concerning the geometry + testimonies of Truly & Baker leading to Oswald's enter of the vestibule (from the south) shall not and cannot be underestimated. Gimmie some time (maybe weekend) and i add more about it. Your are right on the money, Bill. best to you Martin Edit: File attachement Edited February 8, 2010 by Martin Hinrichs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted February 9, 2010 Author Share Posted February 9, 2010 Thank you Bill for bring up this Topic again. Your concerns are more than valid and the evidence concerning the geometry + testimonies of Truly & Baker leading to Oswald's enter of the vestibule (from the south) shall not and cannot be underestimated. Gimmie some time (maybe weekend) and i add more about it. Your are right on the money, Bill. best to you Martin Edit: File attachement Thanks Martin, It look terrific. As for the changing size of the window in the door, you can try an experiment like Crag Lamson does to exhibit parallax, by folding an index card, drawing a square at the top to represent the window, and open the card 1/2 way, 180 degrees, and the window disappears because the door is open. As the door shuts, the window slowly becomes visible, but you can't see through the window until the door is shut or almost completely shut. At that point, if Oswald had walked through that door, he would not be seen in the window because he would have made a left and would be in the lunchroom. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 (edited) BILL I DO BELIEVE YOU WILL BE INTERESTED IN THIS PAGE POSTED AT TOMLIN'S SITE... Oswald did NOT build the wall of boxes. The floor laying crew DID ! ! ! found and posted by peter folkes....thanks... from charles givens testimony... SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/givens.htm B EXCUSE DARN CAPS THANKS... Edited March 7, 2010 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted May 5, 2010 Author Share Posted May 5, 2010 BILL I DO BELIEVE YOU WILL BE INTERESTED IN THIS PAGE POSTED AT TOMLIN'S SITE... Oswald did NOT build the wall of boxes. The floor laying crew DID ! ! ! found and posted by peter folkes....thanks... from charles givens testimony... SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/givens.htm B EXCUSE DARN CAPS THANKS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Hinrichs Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 Thanks Martin, It look terrific. As for the changing size of the window in the door, you can try an experiment like Crag Lamson does to exhibit parallax, by folding an index card, drawing a square at the top to represent the window, and open the card 1/2 way, 180 degrees, and the window disappears because the door is open. As the door shuts, the window slowly becomes visible, but you can't see through the window until the door is shut or almost completely shut. At that point, if Oswald had walked through that door, he would not be seen in the window because he would have made a left and would be in the lunchroom. BK Oh Bill. Sorry, i've overlooked your response in February. I will open and shut the door from Bakers point of view. Gimmie some time. I have lot of work to do here. Thanks for your interest. best to you Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Hinrichs Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Ok Bill, today i found some time to work on it. What you see in this first two GIF's is, how the scene would looked like from Baker's POV and viewed lateral from above. Door open and closed with a 3D figure in the vestibule very close to the door. If Oswald was in that position as Baker saw him, the door would still be slightely open. It is clear that Oswald would be partial in sight. It is also clear that Truly, who was ahead of Baker must have seen Lee Oswald open the door. Since we know from Truly's testimony that this did not happend, it becomes troubling. I also don't recall Truly mentioned anywhere that he closed his eyes while entering the 2 floor. Here you go: This two Gif's needs a while to load. Then it should run smooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Hinrichs Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 Here the same scene with the 3D figure already 2-3 steps towards the lunch room on the second floor. As we can see, Oswald would have been out of sight from Baker's POV within a second after entering the vestibule. Again Truly, who headed in front of Baker, witnessed nobody on the second floor walking in any direction. The geometry is accurate as possible with the available data. Don't worry Bill, there are some people out there whom say Oswald made a Zig-Zag turn inside the vestibule. But what is common sense telling us? Ask me and i show you tomorrow the most plausible scenario. best to you Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Hagerman Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 A very perceptive observation that few make...OSWALD WAS DOUBLE-CROSSED by his sponsors. This is a crucial element of the plot. Jack Spot on Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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