David S. Brownlee

Poor Jack Ruby...he was just a medium mob guy who had to pick up the pieces when Officer Tippits didn't manage to kill Oswald and become a National Hero. I don't think Ruby was happy with his role since he knew what could/would happen. I mean let's be fair to Jack...any nervousness was definitely founded. He shot Oswald (maybe fatally) and never left jail until he was dead. The guy really got the ass end of the deal.

Lee Harvey Oswald was shot by a known gangster at a range of three (or four) feet in the premises of Dallas law enforcement. He was shot in the middle with a .38 caibre. A shot that...at that time and with that small of bullet...that close to an emergency room ...would have likely saved his life easily. There is a reason that Princess Di pulled the IVs out of her arms just before she expired. All you have to do is get a wounded person into control. CIA - 202.01...finishing: "When you have accomplished the mission of seriously wounding a target and have them in a situation of containment it is important to have a person of quality to either inject them with a deadly serum along the way or to finish them via intravenal fluids at the hospital." This is usually done by HP4s (High powered barbituates) which basically turn off the heart.

Won't hit your "click" - but yes...as we all know it was a plot. Probably the largest plot of any assasination in history - even going back to the times of Ceasars. Oswald was photographed with Ferrie (CIA) at the Civil Air Patrol picnic and went on to be a Marine and went to be a radioman at the U-2 tracking base and then learned the Russian language (smart guy) and then deported himself to Russia and gave up his citizenship then married one of the sweetest looking girls you would ever see (Jackie had nothing on her)..then got back into the country and worked for the CIA and handed out leaflets to identify "pro Castros"....which any fool knows was just to gather info on pro Castros for their database. ...and he is a "lone nut"...just a dumb guy who got lucky with a WWII surplus gun from Italy. yep. F'it...the game is over and they won...good on the CIA. Gotta give em credit for a well planned and executed system of murder. They got JFK (MLK in the middle) and RFK (and a lot of other folks..RIP Dorothy Kilgallen). Salute! Credit where credit is due. In my personal opinion they won and that's it. I have friends that even if it could be proven that it was a conspiracy...wouldn't really care that much. So neither do I. I have reasonable gas prices (a bit high but)...I trade pieces of paper for steaks...I drive on good roads...I can go anywhere in the world I want to (as long as we aren't conquering them) ...pretty good deal. thanks Dick. If my damn kids stop needing money maybe I'll go to Aruba next year.

There is BIG MONEY in OIL....I'm not xxxxtenya The known oil reserves in Iraq basically cancel out the USA national debt. P.S. - I wonder what happened to all that gold Khaddafi had that he was going to use as the basis of his currency to force European nations to use it when buying Libyan Oil? Actually...the gold is peanuts. The prime thing is - which currency ( little pieces of paper ) are most reguarded.

Stuff is too small to read for me ? :-(

IMO this forum should be expanded - the "Guardian" broke a story the other day that has been smothered in the USA about oil price fixing by the major players. THIS IS an ENORMOUS Story - maybe the biggest of our time $$-wise. They also previously were the ones who broke the story that bearded British "special agents" were called in to finally overtake Ghaddaffi's forces when air supremacy alone wasn't working and the gutless "revolutionaries" were running every time a mortar round got within half a mile of them.

The last day was actualy something that my uncle never got over. He was ordered up on the second line at 10:30 when the armistist was to go at 11:00 General Preshing had ordered that they would fight until the last minute. The first "wave" went over the top at around 10:00. German machine gunners were actually waving the white flag and telling them to just stop...but they didn't 6000 American boys (and a few Canadians)...went over the top. They were greated by Germans who told thenm to "Go Back, it's OVER!" The Officers behind them urged them on - foreward - and when the German machine gunners saw that they intended to kil them (in the last moments of the war) they did the only thing they could do - they opened up on them with their machine guns - and killed three thousand men in 10 minutes.

Feel

I always wonder about just how dumb Oswald was (as a patsy)...he did the Russian thing...then turned around and did the "Fair play for Cuba" thing. Surely most relatively intelligent people would realize that they were putting themselves at risk for a setup in each instance. I mean the guy wasn't just a patsy...he was the patsies' patsy. He was as gullible as they come. I guess they told him that handing out those flyers helped them to build their database on "enemies"...but wouldn't a normal prudent person understand what that meant to him - as far as a personal persona?

Supposedly he insisted. As did Rommel... His (previous) good service was likely taken into consideration...the effort that would have to be put into a trial for treason was likely also a factor.

Interesting...now the Director of the CIA resigns because he says he was having an affair....three days after the election. I wonder what his choices were?

Additional security requests were obviously mishandled at State if that was indeed the case. Serious - on-the-ground decisions were made by the CIA as far as "standing down" when they were also "under attack" and actually close enough to help.

Indeed...this was my primary point...it does seem to be always set up that way..

...or an attempt at a bloodless coup (election pending)..same old same old. The CIA (underlings) who asked for permission to save Stevens were stopped - by who? Senior CIA. This was a rigged job from the getgo. Stevens was likely an enemy of the right wing CIA ( Stevens likely wanted to negotiate decent terms for the regular Libyian folks when it came to oil $$). My guess is that it was initially a "shot across the bow" to try and intimidate U.S. President Obama...then they used the "lack of support" against him. I seriously doubt that this will be the defining issue in the election as some right wingers may hope. If Barack Obama wins the election there will be hell-to-pay in the CIA. (JMHO) Sorry if this is O.T. - I thought it made sense when I posted it....it does have to do with the same folks who offed JFK and RFK.

I have always been intrigued by the witnesses who said the car slowed appreciably...nearly stopped..around the time of the final kill shot. This would make sense to me as the shot from the Grassy Knoll was likely the last (and best) shot in Dealy Plaza. With an already seriously injured elected president...It would be a mess to try and finish him off at the hospital later when some folks would be on his side and might take action.

Yes...imagine sitting beside your husband as his head gets blown away. I dither about whether it was a "statement" hit...or just a huge move to get an oil man in charge and to fire up the MICC. Whatever it was it was a brutal assassination with the wife sitting beside. If their is a hell I hope all involved are slowly taking their seats as they die off and get what they deserve. If they are sitting in the hall as I walk by - in another direction - I will ask my accompanying Angel politely if I can spit on them on their way to H#LL. .

I was reading the "Unspeakable" book just to see if there was anything I had missed and to reorganize my thoughts and a quick sentence hit me like a stone. Jackie (in one of her few quotes in the book) said she actually saw the larger pieces of JFK's head flying backwards. Wow. It reminded me of a time many years ago when I heard screeching tires across the median on the inter-state highway. I looked over in a flash and a pickup truck had apparently blown a tire - went sideways - and flipped at fairly high speed. The flip likely lasted all of a second but I remember everything about that second. The windshield glass broke out (burst forward) and I remember a shower of glass particles up in the air - they even gave a rainbow effect in the sun. Everything was instantly in ultra slow motion. The driver came out of his seat during the flip and then came back into the truck - hitting his head on the door frame violently as he was jerked around. After the flip the truck ended up back on it's wheels. I yelled at my Dad to stop and ran across the median to give aid. I already knew the injury that the driver had - a serious impact wound on the right side of his head - where - sure enough - he was bleeding profusely. We stopped the bleeding with a rag and he was off to the hospital in fairly short order and survived. But I'll never forget how time seemed to slow way down and I saw everthing in minute detail...I could almost count the squarish pieces of safety glass as they were up in the air even though the whole accident (the part I saw) took probably 1 second. Has anybody else gone through this type of intense situation? My guess is that Jacqueline did since I don't think I have any sensory ability above the normal person. Can we imagine what she really saw? It had to be utterly devastating.

The thing is..and let's be fair...I was 5 years old when they murdered JFK...I was 10 years old when they murdered RFK. My father was a foreman at a factory that bent steel tubes for swingsets. Now what the F was he exactly supposed to do? He was a good man who read the papers and tried to keep up and tried to make enough money to provide for us. Was he somehow expected to suddenly be an expert on International politics? I know...I know...but you have to realize that this was a closed society.

I realize this has been gone over before but I am amazed that more info hasn't come out of NY circles about Dorothy's death. ---------------- On November 8, 1965, Dorothy Kilgallen, was found dead in her apartment shortly after returning from Dallas where she had interviewed Jack Ruby and had conducted her own investigation of the JFK murder during several trips to cover the Ruby trial. She had revealed secret transcripts of Ruby's testimony in her column. Kilgallen had met with Ruby. She had learned of a meeting three weeks before the assassination at Ruby's "Carousel", the Dallas underworld's merry-go-round where the "Big D" mobsters wheeled around. Present at the meeting were Ruby, Officer J.D. Tippit, Bernard Weismann and, she would later learn, a fourth party. __________ Kilgallen was a pretty high profile lady to hit...I remember seeing her as a kid onTV with my parents....but I guess if you have already knocked off the elected President of the United States...you are probably pretty much "all-in" at that point...and it wasn't like they had any choice...they had to silence Kilgallen and knock off her friend who they probably knew about via wire taps or the Isreali guy. Kilgallen was the only person to talk to Ruby...and likely the last person to talk to him who had any "investigative" desires. Of course I never thought that Tippet was anything more than the "designated hero" who would either catch Oswald - or more likely - gun him down. ...and I have always thought that Oswald was just a tad smarter than the standard patsy. And of course it didn't get Oswald anywhere except a bad bargaining deal and a .38 in the gut (middle-right) that would not have killed the guy with proper medical care - that close to a major hospital. But...as we all know...Lee Harvey Oswald was NOT going to survive that shot...even if Ruby had shot him in the knee.

The problem is (IMO) is that there were so many motives to kill JFK....but I generally trace things back to money. Who had a monetary reason to take him out? MIC, Oil Conglomerates, CIA, Organized crime syndicates, and probably a few more. As far as the motive to knock off Bobby - that's easy - everybody involved in the JFK assasination. Nigga please...we all know who killed Bobby Kennedy...it was (CIA connected) Thane Ceasar...a "security guard" that came up behind hin and put a contact bullet behind his ear while Sirhan was spraying bullets everywhere. T.C. had been a security dude for Lockheed Martin (security guards are excellent places to hide assasins - see John Lennon). They just keep them there and pay them extra cash on the side. Last I heard RFK's murderer is living in the Phillipines...if he hasn't passed away by now...this isn't difficult stuff...it's just that the American people don't care...and why should they?...they are getting their goodies. Honestly - at this point - you could put all the true facts out on the table - undeniable facts - and 90% of the American people wouldn't give a rat's ass. It's old news...like reading about the guy who killed the real Ceasar. Nobody really cares that much anymore. It's easy for them to blame Oswald/Sirhan and to move on with their lives - like raising their kids and going to the lake on weekends.

"Tippit was one of the few officers in the Dallas Police Force not to be called to Dealey Plaza to help investigate the assassination. Instead, at 12.45 p.m. he was sent to the Oak Cliff section of Dallas." I feel this is key...although there can never be eyewitnesses at this point. The possible interaction - or non-interaction between LHO and Tippet is crucial. There are so many variables. IMO Tippit was either there because he did not want to be involved and was pitched out to the periphery - or more realistically - he was the guy who was supposed to take LHO out...and be the hero. J.D. Tippit...hero of the lone nut asassination of the president by taking out the lone nut (Oswald). But someting went wrong - seriously wrong. Take a good look at Tippit's picture. He doesn't look to me like a guy who would go down easily.

Well said. It's almost as if someone wanted to dilute the research community. Hmmm... My guess is that it was either primarily about aliens, bigfoots, or money. Very very large amounts of money. Bet on the latter

It's just my opinion...but could it be that it was their first really big one and relatively poorly planned...they panicked. Most criminals improve at their craft with time (if they stay out of jail). After JFK I think there were a lot of "lessons learned". Keep it as simple as possible - more compartmentalization - minimize risk (no long shots). I think they learned that the idea of counting on snipers from any real distance was foolhardy - too many variables. I have argued before that the sniper from the TSBD or thereabouts probably made what he felt was a perfect shot. The "miss" was totally predictable in hindsight (bullets still drop even when shooting downhill and the car was slowly moving to the left..therfore a perfect shot became a few inches low and a couple inches to the right). It may also be that while Oswald was a patsy - he wasn't a truly programmed patsy as has been stated before. They basically had five years to work on that skill before it was necessary to use Sirhan.

Well 10% versus 90%...I'll stick with the 90%. I'll take those odds every day.

Alright fella...I used the SKS as an example of a moderate velocity firearm. I also have three .22s (one a target model) which go off (depending on ammo variety) at about a thousand FPS muzzle velocity, a .357 Mag which has about the same. An SKS and an AK-47 which pump the lead at about 1800 fps muzzle velocity, a .270 Winchester which pops em out at around 2800 fps with a 130 grain bullet...and a 7MM Remington Magnum which hits 3000 fps muzzle velocity with a 130 grain...slightly less with a 150 grain. I shoot all of these guns on the range routinely and at a friends place where we set up "fun" targets. So PLEASE don't talk to me about BB-Guns and how smart you are. I started shooting .22s when I was seven years old pal. You obviously know very little when it comes to firearms. Ooooh 100 posts .... . ..and P.S....it did look like maybe 10% of the melon actually came a bit forward in those shots. Next time I'm at my buddy's place I will make a point of laying down a Hanky and trying what I said. If you are right I will accept defeat...which I seriously doubt (but the bet thing was just me trying to make a point - us Mormons don't gamble).