Dale Myers, Don Thomas, & The Murder Of Officer Tippit

[David Von Pein]

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2010/12/tippit-murder-why-conspiracy-theorists.html

The above-linked article by Dale K. Myers is absolutely phenomenal.

Truly magnificent. It should probably be published as an addendum to

Myers' exquisite book, "With Malice" (which has been one of my

favorite books connected with the JFK case since I first had the

pleasure of reading it in 2004).

Mr. Myers, in step-by-step (and, as always, thoroughly DOCUMENTED)

fashion, takes Don Thomas apart, limb from limb, when it comes to

Thomas' shameful and outrageous disinformation regarding J.D. Tippit's

murder. (Highlights from the article are presented below.)

I once again salute Mr. Myers and his meticulous work, as he continues

the good fight against conspiracy-happy charlatans like Donald B.

Thomas.

Mr. Myers, yet again, has demonstrated (via the raw FACTS) just

exactly how bankrupt (and pathetic) conspiracy theorists like Thomas

are when it comes to the subjects of the murders of both John F.

Kennedy and J.D. Tippit.

David Von Pein

December 5, 2010

---------------------------------------------

EXCERPTS:

"It seems that some authors are so eager to expunge [Lee Harvey]

Oswald’s obvious culpability for [Officer J.D.] Tippit’s death that

passing off a pack of lies as truth isn’t beneath them.

"The most recent publication to offer enlightenment on the subject of

the Tippit shooting is 'Hear No Evil: Social Constructivism and the

Forensic Evidence in the Kennedy Assassination' (Mary Ferrell

Foundation Press, 2010) by Donald Byron Thomas.

[...]

"My first and immediate reaction after reading through Thomas’

dissertation was: What a colossal waste of time. To say that Mr.

Thomas, an entomologist by profession, is way out of his league

pontificating on the Tippit case would be an understatement devoid of

description.

"But I can say this: Thomas’ take on the Tippit murder is the most

outrageous, error-riddled, load of crap I’ve read in a long time. It’s

hard to believe that anyone with an ounce of sense would believe such

nonsense, but hey, if you don’t know what really happened I guess

anything – even the kind of bull droppings that Thomas is hawking –

can sound plausible.

[...]

"The part-time sleuth [Don Thomas] claims that Tippit and [Harry]

Olsen confronted Oswald at Tenth and Patton, and in a bizarre twist,

both Oswald and Olsen shot Tippit dead – both killers then fleeing the

scene on foot.

"Stop, stop, STOP. How in the hell does Harry Olsen flee the Tippit

shooting scene on foot?

"Apparently, Mr. Thomas is ignorant of the fact that Olsen had fallen

and broken his kneecap just before the assassination. On November

22nd, Olsen’s leg was in a cast and he was using crutches. In fact,

Olsen was assigned light duty (doing office work) during that period

and had the day off. That’s how he happened to be moonlighting on the

day of the assassination; acting as a guard at the property of an

elderly woman located on Eighth Street, two blocks from the Stemmons

Freeway in Oak Cliff.

"Does Mr. Thomas tell his readers any of this? Of course not.

According to Thomas, Olsen is not a lame officer on crutches; oh no,

in Thomas’ conspiracy fantasy Olsen is making a fast getaway on foot

after gunning down a fellow police officer.

"The entire episode is so laughable and so completely at odds with the

easily discernable facts in this case that one has to wonder what in

the world Mr. Thomas hopes to achieve by authoring such drivel? It

certainly cannot be credibility.

[...]

"While some uninformed readers may find Thomas’ arguments compelling,

I find them to be a despicable example of the lengths conspiracy

advocates are willing to go to sell their ideology in the face of an

avalanche of contradictory facts.

[...]

"It’s a matter of rote among Kennedy assassination conspiracy

theorists that the Dallas police framed Oswald for the Tippit murder.

"Mr. Thomas stays the course in this regard, claiming that “…there are

three separate, specific reasons for which the inculpation of Lee

Harvey Oswald was in the best interests of the Dallas Police.”

"The first reason, according to Thomas, was a matter of self-

preservation. Police needed to impress on the public mind that NO ONE

gets away with murdering a policeman. “If the real killer can’t be

caught,” Thomas writes, “then a suitable patsy will do.”

"Yea, sure. The Dallas police simply snatch someone off the street,

railroad them through the legal system, and chuck them in the electric

chair without a peep from anyone. Can you imagine anything so absurd?

Where do people get these notions, from comic books?

[...]

"There are some awful books that have been written about the Kennedy

assassination and then there are the truly god awful books.

"Donald Byron Thomas’ spin on the murder of Officer J.D. Tippit easily

falls into the latter category. And that’s being kind.

[...]

"When all is said and done, and the true facts are laid bare, there is

really <i>no doubt</i> that Lee Harvey Oswald murdered J.D. Tippit.

[...]

"It is a shame...to see trash published in the name of scientific

research and critical thinking. .... It’s hard enough for newcomers to

this subject to wade through the voluminous materials available on the

Internet or in special collections in an effort to determine the truth

for themselves without having to deal with knuckleheads like Thomas

who are so wed to their ideology that they can’t separate truth from

their own self-aggrandizing opinions."

-- Dale K. Myers; December 2010

http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2010/12/dale-myers-and-don-thomas.html

Edited December 5, 2010 by David Von Pein

[William Kelly]

Actually, I agree with Myers on this one, up until he drags me into it.

I heard Don Thomas give a COPA talk in Dallas in November 2002, and thought his power point presentation on the acoustics was pretty good.

http://www.parapolit...opa2002gallery/

Then I read the chapter on the Tippit murder that was posted at Mary Ferrell and was quite surprised at how sloppy it is and mish mash of all the CT books that have been written, and confusing things even more by quoting Dale Myers and bringing in the Carl Mather/Collins Radio episode, mixing it in with the other leads, some of which

were run down and explained long ago.

http://www.maryferre...sPageId=1538456

I was dismayed, because I think the acoustical evidence - the echo pattern analysis and fingerprint of the Dealey Plaza acostics can be developed into real forensic evidence, and Thomas should have stuck to the science and the scientific methods that can be used to refine what we know and how we know it.

I recently came across a hard copy of an article I wrote about the acoustic evidence years ago, before the articles and books were written by Thomas and Myers, that I posted here:

http://jfkcountercou...laza-echos.html

Thomas might understand and promote the acoustical evidence accurately, but when it came to the Tippit murder, he was all over the place and seems like he is really speculating off the wall.

While Thomas mentions the Carl Mather episode, he doesn't really drag me into it, like Dale Myers does in his review of a book that doesn't mention me at all.

Why drag me into it? As all of my research and writing on this still stands solid today, and has been developed even further than what Myers cites, and Thomas doesn't mention me at all, why am I part of Myers' review of Thomas' book?

Thomas doesn't even cite my work in his notes - but instead cites the HSCA, which published the information under the title "The Wise Allegation," although Wes doesn't make any allegations, and neither do I.

In fact, most of what Dale Myers writes is true - Thomas seems to speculate a lot about things that are open to be speclated about.

But the Carl Mather/Collins Radio connection has nothing to do with anything that Thomas wrote other than his own bone headed speculations, and Myers inference that it has something to do with me.

The fact that Dale Myers has to drag my research through this mud bath is what startles me, as I certainly don't want Myers to be trying to explain my research and work any more than I want Thomas to do it.

And I have a tape recorded interview with Wes Wise in which he says that he kept the piece of paper Mr. White wrote the license plate tag number, and promised Mr. White that he wouldn't be involved, but the FBI broke Wise's promise and did intimidate White and didn't bother to properly question Mather as he should have been, and neither did CBS, who tried, nor did the HSCA question Mather even though he was given immunity from prosecution to do so.

I'm sorry to hear that Mr. Mather has passed away before he could be properly questioned by anyone.

While I agree with most of what Myers says about Thomas' chapter on the Tippit murder, I resent Myers for wrongfully associating my research and work with the work of Thomas and now his own, neither of which can be considered encompasing or comprehensive of what is known about the murder of JD Tippit.

Bill Kelly

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/

Edited December 6, 2010 by William Kelly

[William Kelly]

The most ludicrous part of Myer's piece is where he tries to excuse the two different brands of bullets by saying, "Well see Oswald had three of each brand in his handgun and five Winchesters in his pocket."

He never mentions the "fast frisk" in the theater that came up empty according to Hill.

He never mentions the he could never prove the chain of possession of the handgun, or the incredible fact that the FBI never went to REA in Dallas for the back up documentation of Oswald picking it up there. Or that Davey Boy tried to conjure up the most silly, hare brained scheme i have ever heard of to cover that up i.e. that the USPS collected the money for REA, and kept the money in a separate drawer as a fiduciary for a private delivery service! Or that as Duke Lane and Greg Parker have pointed out, the DPD cannot tell a consistent story of how Hill got Oswald's alleged revolver in the first place.

And if that is a "B" on those two shell exhibits,then Barnes should go back to first grade to learn his letters.

I love what the flip flopper Myers says about how difficult it is to see the initials on the shells at NARA. Maybe they have been switched? Because Henry Hurt had no problem deciphering them in 1984. He said, "The markings in the hulls are distinctive and clearly seen--even with the naked eye." (P. 154)

Then, the flip-flopper says that all the kicking and screaming over this issue by the critics is a lot of nothing. Oh, really? Consider:

The DPD sent only ONE bullet to the FBI lab for examination, saying that this was the only bullet found in the body. Which was false. The bullet ended up not matching the alleged revolver.

When the WC found out about this, they asked the FBi to go find the other bullets. The FBI found them, four months later, in the Will Fritz files. Geez, Dale, isn't that kind of weird? Maybe John McAdams would not blink an eye, but most people would.

Well, those bullets did not match the alleged revolver either. Now, the shells had to save the day. And unlike the bullets, the shells had ben in DPD control the whole time. Which makes the following rather bizarre: on the first day evidence summary, THERE IS NO MENTION OF ANY SHELLS! THe first mention of shells was made six days after the one bullet went to Washington.

That does not sound like a lot of "nothing" to me. It sounds kind of fishy. Especially in light of all we know today about just how corrupt the Fritz/Wade regime was. In light of that record, it sounds to me like when the DPD could not get a match on the bullets, they made sure they got a match on the shells. Or else why not just send it all up together?

In light of all the above for Myers to say that the DPD would not know what evidence to plant is weird, especially since the evidence extracted from the body at autopsy, the bullets--initially controlled by the coroner-- did not match.

What Myers does with the third wallet discovery is really something. I mean I hope he didn't have a hernia writing it. He actaully says that just because there is film of officers handling a wallet and examining it at the TIppit scene, that does not mean they found it there. Oh really Dale? So you mean with a dead man laying in front of them, and a crowd beginning to gather, and President Kennedy already dead, some officer just pulled out his billfold with a picture of his kids and started in with, "This is Danny, he's the oldest." Dale, please. You are sounding like VIncent Bugliosi. Oh, I forgot, you co-wrote that book. And then didn't want anyone to know that fact as you criticized people who didn't like it.

I won't even go into the whole Collins Radio aspect. Suffice it to say, Myers is being deceptive when he says it was investigated. It was not. And what he is doing here amounts to what the WC did. He is selectively using bits and pieces in order to paper it over.

Jim,

I agree with everything you say, it's just that Thomas doesn't make a good case, and Myers' work is less convincing, and he leaves out more than Thomas does.

They want to honor Tippit with an historic plaque in Oak Cliff?

They should honor JD Tippit with a grand jury investigation into his murder.

BK

[Guest Robert Morrow]

I was just at the scene of the Tippit murder TODAY (Sunday 12/5/10) and in my opinion it is extremely doubtful that US intelligence agent Lee Harvey Oswald shot ANYONE on 11/22/63. Certainly not JFK, and almost certainly not Tippit. I talked to one of the neighbors, a Hispanic Man, who just happened to live in the area for 49 years near 10th and Patton. When I asked this man if Oswald shot Tippit he quickly responded NO, but there were 2 men who probably shot Tippit.

This man was not a direct witness to the events on 11/22/63, but he lived in the neighborhood for 49 YEARS and he was giving me the neighborhood scuttlebutt that it was TWO MEN who shot Tippit. This is also want I have heard from some other JFK researchers.

By the way, I also walked on foot at a very fast pace from Oswald's place (1026 North Beckley Ave.) to the VERY SPOT of the Tippit murder on 10th Street. Walking at a very fast, powerwalking pace, and cutting corners of lots when I could - trying to get there as FAST as humanly possible without breaking into a full blown run ... the quickest I could make the trip was in 10 minutes and 25 seconds. That is the time of a fit man, walking VERY briskly and cutting corners on street lots to increase time.

My first time for the trip - again walking quite briskly, almost powerwalking - was 11 minutes, 5 seconds. I really blasted it when it did it the second time, going 10 minutes and 25 seconds.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Robert Morrow

[Dean Hagerman]

conspiracy-happy charlatans like Donald B. Thomas

Come on Dave! Thats way out of line

Charlatan? Really? Give me a break

[David Von Pein]

This testimony of Harry Olsen's is nothing but a big lie, right Farley? ....

-----------

Mr SPECTER. How did it happen that you were not on duty with the police department on the day President Kennedy was in town?

Mr OLSEN. I had my leg in a cast and I was doing light duty, which was working in the office, patrol office, and I had asked them if they needed me to work that day and they said no.

Mr SPECTER. What sort of an accident did you have to injure your leg?

Mr OLSEN. I fell and broke my kneecap.

Mr SPECTER. When did that occur?

Mr OLSEN. Oh, several weeks before.

Mr SPECTER. At what hospital were you treated?

Mr OLSEN. Baylor Hospital.

Mr SPECTER. Is that in Dallas?

Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir; it's on Gaston.

Mr SPECTER. What time did you start to guard the estate on that particular Friday?

Mr OLSEN. About 7 a.m.

Mr SPECTER. And how long did that guard duty last?

Mr OLSEN. Until about 8.

Mr SPECTER. Eight p.m.?

Mr OLSEN. P.m., yes, sir.

Mr SPECTER. Did you have any visitors while you were guarding the estate on that day?

Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir.

Mr SPECTER. And who was the visitor or visitors?

Mr OLSEN. Kay.

Mr SPECTER. What time did she visit you?

Mr OLSEN. Right after the President was shot.

Mr SPECTER. How did you learn of the assassination of the President?

Mr OLSEN. A woman called me on the phone who was a friend of the person who had lived there.

[William Kelly]

Actually, I agree with Myers on this one, up until he drags me into it.

I heard Don Thomas give a COPA talk in Dallas in November 2002, and thought his power point presentation on the acoustics was pretty good.

http://www.parapolit...opa2002gallery/

Then I read the chapter on the Tippit murder that was posted at Mary Ferrell and was quite surprised at how sloppy it is and mish mash of all the CT books that have been written, and confusing things even more by quoting Dale Myers and bringing in the Carl Mather/Collins Radio episode, mixing it in with the other leads, some of which

were run down and explained long ago.

http://www.maryferre...sPageId=1538456

I was dismayed, because I think the acoustical evidence - the echo pattern analysis and fingerprint of the Dealey Plaza acostics can be developed into real forensic evidence, and Thomas should have stuck to the science and the scientific methods that can be used to refine what we know and how we know it.

I recently came across a hard copy of an article I wrote about the acoustic evidence years ago, before the articles and books were written by Thomas and Myers, that I posted here:

http://jfkcountercou...laza-echos.html

Thomas might understand and promote the acoustical evidence accurately, but when it came to the Tippit murder, he was all over the place and seems like he is really speculating off the wall.

While Thomas mentions the Carl Mather episode, he doesn't really drag me into it, like Dale Myers does in his review of a book that doesn't mention me at all.

Why drag me into it? As all of my research and writing on this still stands solid today, and has been developed even further than what Myers cites, and Thomas doesn't mention me at all, why am I part of Myers' review of Thomas' book?

Thomas doesn't even cite my work in his notes - but instead cites the HSCA, which published the information under the title "The Wise Allegation," although Wes doesn't make any allegations, and neither do I.

In fact, most of what Dale Myers writes is true - Thomas seems to speculate a lot about things that are open to be speclated about.

But the Carl Mather/Collins Radio connection has nothing to do with anything that Thomas wrote other than his own bone headed speculations, and Myers inference that it has something to do with me.

The fact that Dale Myers has to drag my research through this mud bath is what startles me, as I certainly don't want Myers to be trying to explain my research and work any more than I want Thomas to do it.

And I have a tape recorded interview with Wes Wise in which he says that he kept the piece of paper Mr. White wrote the license plate tag number, and promised Mr. White that he wouldn't be involved, but the FBI broke Wise's promise and did intimidate White and didn't bother to properly question Mather as he should have been, and neither did CBS, who tried, nor did the HSCA question Mather even though he was given immunity from prosecution to do so.

I'm sorry to hear that Mr. Mather has passed away before he could be properly questioned by anyone.

While I agree with most of what Myers says about Thomas' chapter on the Tippit murder, I resent Myers for wrongfully associating my research and work with the work of Thomas and now his own, neither of which can be considered encompasing or comprehensive of what is known about the murder of JD Tippit.

Bill Kelly

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/

Bill,

I must admit the Tippit case is probably not one of my better areas so I was at least intruigued by Thomas' work. However, I was dismayed that he began with a belief in Oswald's guilt which I'm sure we can all agree (and by we all I mean reasonable people and not DVP) has never been proven. Consequently he never mentions the witnesses at the Texas Theatre who placed Oswald there shortly after 1 pm (if I remember correctly) and never explains how Oswald could have gotten to the scene in time if he was still waiting for a bus at 1:05 pm and by some witness accounts the Tippit killing ocurred before 1:10 pm.

Anyway I can see that I need to do a lot more research into this area. Can you give me links to any of your writings on this as I'd very much like to read them?

Cheers,

Martin

Hi Martin,

As for information on the Tippit murder, you can probably start with Dale Myers' book With Malice, but the difinitive book on the Tippit murder has yet to be written, and I'm not going to be the one to do it. The late Larry Harris was probably THE guy who could have done it, but he is no loger with us, and I'd like to know what became of his files. Sylvia Meagher's Accessories After the Fac and Henry Hurts book also have information on the Tippit murder, and it would do some researcher good to dive into it and put together the unbiased, complete and difinitive account of the Tippit murder.

I have posted my Collins Radio Connections article that was the basis for my DC COPA talk in the early 1990s, which I will now update since Dale Myers has decided to use Don Thomas' book in order to throw darts at me.

Here's links to the article I wrote based on my COPA abstract, but when I tried to read it I got a notice saying that it was unavailable and can't figure out why. No other post is blocked.

Then I went to the backup mirror site I established at WordPress and the same thing. No other blog posting is effected, but I can't seem to access my own blog posting of Collins Radio Connections.

I will try to figure out why this is happening, free the links and update the article and post it again soon.

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2008/01/collins-radio-connections.html

http://jfkcountercoup.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/collins-radio-connections/

BK

[Todd W. Vaughan]

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2010/12/tippit-murder-why-conspiracy-theorists.html

The above-linked article by Dale K. Myers is absolutely phenomenal.

Truly magnificent.

David Von Pein

December 5, 2010

EXCERPTS:

"The part-time sleuth [Don Thomas] claims that Tippit and [Harry]

Olsen confronted Oswald at Tenth and Patton, and in a bizarre twist,

both Oswald and Olsen shot Tippit dead both killers then fleeing the

scene on foot.

"Stop, stop, STOP. How in the hell does Harry Olsen flee the Tippit

shooting scene on foot?

"Apparently, Mr. Thomas is ignorant of the fact that Olsen had fallen

and broken his kneecap just before the assassination. On November

22nd, Olsens leg was in a cast and he was using crutches. In fact,

Olsen was assigned light duty (doing office work) during that period

and had the day off. Thats how he happened to be moonlighting on the

day of the assassination; acting as a guard at the property of an

elderly woman located on Eighth Street, two blocks from the Stemmons

Freeway in Oak Cliff.

"Does Mr. Thomas tell his readers any of this? Of course not.

According to Thomas, Olsen is not a lame officer on crutches; oh no,

in Thomas conspiracy fantasy Olsen is making a fast getaway on foot

after gunning down a fellow police officer.

It would be helpful if YOU had read the damn book. It would also be helpful if Myers "...told his readers" that what he is spouting concerning the content of Thomas' work is "error-riddled" and a "load of crap."

Concerning the Olsen episode, Thomas states that in Olsen's Warren Commission testimony he "claimed that he took the day off because of a broken leg. But hospital records show that Olsen broke his leg in a car accident on December 7th, two weeks after the assassination, not before. And his employement records show that he worked Thursday, the day before the assassination, and again on Monday, the first regular working day following the assassination, taking only Friday off to nurse his bum leg." Hear No Evil page 515.

You can only make your point by insisting on pulling the wool over people's eyes. Ain't that right, Dave? It all certainly becomes blindly ideological when you 100% agree with one of your hierarchy's articles when you haven't even read the work that he is endeavouring to debunk. If everyone on this board didn't already know how non-existent your honesty is when it comes to the issues then this post of yours would be well and truly laughable.

What does Myers say? "Thats how he [Olsen] happened to be moonlighting on the day of the assassination; acting as a guard at the property of an elderly woman located on Eighth Street, two blocks from the Stemmons Freeway in Oak Cliff."

But what does Myers leave out? "According to Olsen he spent the day guarding an estate, but could not remember the name or the address of the estate....forgetting he had a broken leg, stated that he had walked to the estate, which was supposedly on Eigth Street, only four blocks away from Coleman's apartment [Kathy Kay Coleman whom Olsen was having an affair with]" Hear No Evil page 515.

As Thomas points out, and he uses the work of four researchers who went to look for this elusive estate, "there were no estates on Eigth street, or anywhere else in central Oak Cliff, a rundown neighborhoood where many of the residents are minorities...[Penn] Jones of Midlothian Texas drove to Oak Cliff and searched the area for the alleged "estate." Jones assures us that there were no estates on Eigth Street within several blocks either side of Exing, and in fact, no "estates" anywhere in the neighborhood." Hear No Evil page 515-516.

Why don't you, and Myers, get on ebay and see if you can get a good deal on some honesty that may come in useful when representing, and trying to take the piss out of, someone elses work?

Thomas is once again misleading the reader and distorting the record in this case, and youre helping him.

Thomas claims …hospital records show that Olsen broke his leg in a car accident on December 7th, two weeks after the assassination, not before (Hear No Evil page 515).

But Thomas doesnt cite any such hospital records. Instead he cites the Warren Commission testimony of Harry Olsen himself and that of Olsens girlfriend Kathy Kay Coleman.

Their testimony makes it clear that Olsen broke his leg twice.

The first time was before the assassination;

Mr SPECTER. How did it happen that you were not on duty with the police department on the day President Kennedy was in town?

Mr OLSEN. I had my leg in a cast and I was doing light duty, which was working in the office, patrol office, and I had asked them if they needed me to work that day and they said no.

Mr SPECTER. What sort of an accident did you have to injure your leg?

Mr OLSEN. I fell and broke my kneecap.

Mr SPECTER. When did that occur?

Mr OLSEN. Oh, several weeks before.

Mr SPECTER. At what hospital were you treated?

Mr OLSEN. Baylor Hospital.

Mr SPECTER. Is that in Dallas?

Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir; it's on Gaston. (14H629)

The second time was after the assignation;

Mr SPECTER. When did you last talk to Wally Weston?

Mr OLSEN. When I was in the hospital after the car accident.

Mr SPECTER. When did that car accident occur?

Mr OLSEN. December 7.

Mr SPECTER. How long were you in the hospital?

Mr OLSEN. Two weeks, two and a half weeks.

Mr SPECTER. What injuries did you sustain in that automobile collision?

Mr OLSEN. I rebroke my leg.

Mr SPECTER. In the same place?

Mr OLSEN. The same place and some more breaks. And I cracked my chest bone.

Mr SPECTER. Indicating your sternum?

Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. And I broke some ribs.

Mr SPECTER. What hospital were you in?

Mr OLSEN. Methodist.( 14H634)

Mr. SPECTER. Was there any other reason why you left Dallas to go to Oklahoma City?

Mrs. OLSEN. No; just to make some money for Christmas.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Mr. Olsen have an accident at about that time?

Mrs. OLSEN. Yes; while I was up there.

Mr. SPECTER. What happened to him exactly?

Mrs. OLSEN. He totaled his car; hit a telephone pole.

Mr. SPECTER. When you say "totaled," you mean a total wreck?

Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. What injuries, if any, did he sustain?

Mrs. OLSEN. I think he broke two bones in his leg and he separated his shoulder and he had multiple chest injuries, black eye.

Mr. SPECTER. Was he hospitalized?

Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Where?

Mrs. OLSEN. Methodist Hospital. (14H653)

Trying to bolster his claim that Olsen did not have a broken leg at the time of the assassination Thomas claims And his employement records show that he worked Thursday, the day before the assassination, and again on Monday, the first regular working day following the assassination, taking only Friday off to nurse his bum leg." (Hear No Evil page 515).

But Thomas doesnt cite any employment records, and Olsen told the Warren Commission that he was working light duty at the DPD;

Mr SPECTER. How did it happen that you were not on duty with the police department on the day President Kennedy was in town?

Mr OLSEN. I had my leg in a cast and I was doing light duty, which was working in the office, patrol office, and I had asked them if they needed me to work that day and they said no.

Still further trying to bolster his claim that Olsen did not have a broken leg at the time of the assassination Thomas writes;

....forgetting he had a broken leg, stated that he had walked to the estate, which was supposedly on Eigth Street, only four blocks away from Coleman's apartment (Hear No Evil page 515)

This is classic Thomas, misleading the reader into thinking Olsen lied and forgot he had claimed he had a broken leg when he testified that he walked to Colemans apartment. But here is what Olsen really said about this;

Mr SPECTER. How did you get from the house which you were guarding to Kay's house?

Mr OLSEN. Walked.

Mr SPECTER. How far was it?

Mr OLSEN. About 4 blocks.

Mr SPECTER. Did the cast on your knee restrict your walking in any material way?

Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir.

Mr SPECTER. Were you able to walk with the cast on your knee?

Mr OLSEN. A little bit, not much.

Mr SPECTER. But you were able to walk well enough to cover those 4 blocks to Kay's house?

Mr OLSEN. Yes. And it swelled after I had walked it, though.

Mr SPECTER. What did you do after arriving at Kay's house?

Mr OLSEN. Well, going back to that, I had crutches, I believe, that I used. Now, what was the question?

Mr SPECTER. After you arrived at Kay's house, what did you do then?

Edited December 6, 2010 by Todd W. Vaughan

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Yawn.

Myers clearly shows how Thomas deceives his readers with half-truths, bogus citations, unsupported claims, wild speculation, omissions of fact, and just generally wild and bizarre claims.

So yes Jim, by all means, ignore that. Yawn, yawn away. In fact cover your eyes - don’t actually read what Myers wrote. Cover your ears - don’t actually listen to anyone who challenges your boy Thomas. And by all means cover your mouth - don’t actually offer up anything that challenges what Myers wrote.

Yes Jim, see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil about your buddy Don Thomas.

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Actually, I agree with Myers on this one, up until he drags me into it.

I heard Don Thomas give a COPA talk in Dallas in November 2002, and thought his power point presentation on the acoustics was pretty good.

http://www.parapolit...opa2002gallery/

Then I read the chapter on the Tippit murder that was posted at Mary Ferrell and was quite surprised at how sloppy it is and mish mash of all the CT books that have been written, and confusing things even more by quoting Dale Myers and bringing in the Carl Mather/Collins Radio episode, mixing it in with the other leads, some of which

were run down and explained long ago.

http://www.maryferre...sPageId=1538456

I was dismayed, because I think the acoustical evidence - the echo pattern analysis and fingerprint of the Dealey Plaza acostics can be developed into real forensic evidence, and Thomas should have stuck to the science and the scientific methods that can be used to refine what we know and how we know it.

I recently came across a hard copy of an article I wrote about the acoustic evidence years ago, before the articles and books were written by Thomas and Myers, that I posted here:

http://jfkcountercou...laza-echos.html

Thomas might understand and promote the acoustical evidence accurately, but when it came to the Tippit murder, he was all over the place and seems like he is really speculating off the wall.

While Thomas mentions the Carl Mather episode, he doesn't really drag me into it, like Dale Myers does in his review of a book that doesn't mention me at all.

Why drag me into it? As all of my research and writing on this still stands solid today, and has been developed even further than what Myers cites, and Thomas doesn't mention me at all, why am I part of Myers' review of Thomas' book?

Thomas doesn't even cite my work in his notes - but instead cites the HSCA, which published the information under the title "The Wise Allegation," although Wes doesn't make any allegations, and neither do I.

In fact, most of what Dale Myers writes is true - Thomas seems to speculate a lot about things that are open to be speclated about.

But the Carl Mather/Collins Radio connection has nothing to do with anything that Thomas wrote other than his own bone headed speculations, and Myers inference that it has something to do with me.

The fact that Dale Myers has to drag my research through this mud bath is what startles me, as I certainly don't want Myers to be trying to explain my research and work any more than I want Thomas to do it.

And I have a tape recorded interview with Wes Wise in which he says that he kept the piece of paper Mr. White wrote the license plate tag number, and promised Mr. White that he wouldn't be involved, but the FBI broke Wise's promise and did intimidate White and didn't bother to properly question Mather as he should have been, and neither did CBS, who tried, nor did the HSCA question Mather even though he was given immunity from prosecution to do so.

I'm sorry to hear that Mr. Mather has passed away before he could be properly questioned by anyone.

While I agree with most of what Myers says about Thomas' chapter on the Tippit murder, I resent Myers for wrongfully associating my research and work with the work of Thomas and now his own, neither of which can be considered encompasing or comprehensive of what is known about the murder of JD Tippit.

Bill Kelly

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/

Good grief Bill, you make it sound like you didn’t even read the article.

Myers quite obviously “drags you into it” because after dealing with Don Thomas’s outright deception of the facts of Wes Wise allegation regarding T.F. White and Carl Mather, Myers then has to deal with Thomas’ claims that Mather’s connection to Collins Radio is “particularly disturbing because Collins Radio was a front for the CIA,” which is sourced to Anthony Summers which in turn is sourced to none other than YOU.

So of course Myers deals with your Collins Radio issue.

Stop acting like Myers singled you out for some nefarious reason. The fact is that Myers is reviewing what Thomas wrote and Thomas brought it up.What do you expect him to do, ignore it? God forbid he do that, you’d be all over him about it, as you have in the past..

[Todd W. Vaughan]

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2010/12/tippit-murder-why-conspiracy-theorists.html

The above-linked article by Dale K. Myers is absolutely phenomenal.

Truly magnificent.

David Von Pein

December 5, 2010

EXCERPTS:

"The part-time sleuth [Don Thomas] claims that Tippit and [Harry]

Olsen confronted Oswald at Tenth and Patton, and in a bizarre twist,

both Oswald and Olsen shot Tippit dead both killers then fleeing the

scene on foot.

"Stop, stop, STOP. How in the hell does Harry Olsen flee the Tippit

shooting scene on foot?

"Apparently, Mr. Thomas is ignorant of the fact that Olsen had fallen

and broken his kneecap just before the assassination. On November

22nd, Olsens leg was in a cast and he was using crutches. In fact,

Olsen was assigned light duty (doing office work) during that period

and had the day off. Thats how he happened to be moonlighting on the

day of the assassination; acting as a guard at the property of an

elderly woman located on Eighth Street, two blocks from the Stemmons

Freeway in Oak Cliff.

"Does Mr. Thomas tell his readers any of this? Of course not.

According to Thomas, Olsen is not a lame officer on crutches; oh no,

in Thomas conspiracy fantasy Olsen is making a fast getaway on foot

after gunning down a fellow police officer.

It would be helpful if YOU had read the damn book. It would also be helpful if Myers "...told his readers" that what he is spouting concerning the content of Thomas' work is "error-riddled" and a "load of crap."

Concerning the Olsen episode, Thomas states that in Olsen's Warren Commission testimony he "claimed that he took the day off because of a broken leg. But hospital records show that Olsen broke his leg in a car accident on December 7th, two weeks after the assassination, not before. And his employement records show that he worked Thursday, the day before the assassination, and again on Monday, the first regular working day following the assassination, taking only Friday off to nurse his bum leg." Hear No Evil page 515.

You can only make your point by insisting on pulling the wool over people's eyes. Ain't that right, Dave? It all certainly becomes blindly ideological when you 100% agree with one of your hierarchy's articles when you haven't even read the work that he is endeavouring to debunk. If everyone on this board didn't already know how non-existent your honesty is when it comes to the issues then this post of yours would be well and truly laughable.

What does Myers say? "Thats how he [Olsen] happened to be moonlighting on the day of the assassination; acting as a guard at the property of an elderly woman located on Eighth Street, two blocks from the Stemmons Freeway in Oak Cliff."

But what does Myers leave out? "According to Olsen he spent the day guarding an estate, but could not remember the name or the address of the estate....forgetting he had a broken leg, stated that he had walked to the estate, which was supposedly on Eigth Street, only four blocks away from Coleman's apartment [Kathy Kay Coleman whom Olsen was having an affair with]" Hear No Evil page 515.

As Thomas points out, and he uses the work of four researchers who went to look for this elusive estate, "there were no estates on Eigth street, or anywhere else in central Oak Cliff, a rundown neighborhoood where many of the residents are minorities...[Penn] Jones of Midlothian Texas drove to Oak Cliff and searched the area for the alleged "estate." Jones assures us that there were no estates on Eigth Street within several blocks either side of Exing, and in fact, no "estates" anywhere in the neighborhood." Hear No Evil page 515-516.

Why don't you, and Myers, get on ebay and see if you can get a good deal on some honesty that may come in useful when representing, and trying to take the piss out of, someone elses work?

Thomas is once again misleading the reader and distorting the record in this case, and youre helping him.

Thomas claims …hospital records show that Olsen broke his leg in a car accident on December 7th, two weeks after the assassination, not before (Hear No Evil page 515).

But Thomas doesnt cite any such hospital records. Instead he cites the Warren Commission testimony of Harry Olsen himself and that of Olsens girlfriend Kathy Kay Coleman.

Their testimony makes it clear that Olsen broke his leg twice.

The first time was before the assassination;

Mr SPECTER. How did it happen that you were not on duty with the police department on the day President Kennedy was in town?

Mr OLSEN. I had my leg in a cast and I was doing light duty, which was working in the office, patrol office, and I had asked them if they needed me to work that day and they said no.

Mr SPECTER. What sort of an accident did you have to injure your leg?

Mr OLSEN. I fell and broke my kneecap.

Mr SPECTER. When did that occur?

Mr OLSEN. Oh, several weeks before.

Mr SPECTER. At what hospital were you treated?

Mr OLSEN. Baylor Hospital.

Mr SPECTER. Is that in Dallas?

Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir; it's on Gaston. (14H629)

The second time was after the assignation;

Mr SPECTER. When did you last talk to Wally Weston?

Mr OLSEN. When I was in the hospital after the car accident.

Mr SPECTER. When did that car accident occur?

Mr OLSEN. December 7.

Mr SPECTER. How long were you in the hospital?

Mr OLSEN. Two weeks, two and a half weeks.

Mr SPECTER. What injuries did you sustain in that automobile collision?

Mr OLSEN. I rebroke my leg.

Mr SPECTER. In the same place?

Mr OLSEN. The same place and some more breaks. And I cracked my chest bone.

Mr SPECTER. Indicating your sternum?

Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. And I broke some ribs.

Mr SPECTER. What hospital were you in?

Mr OLSEN. Methodist.( 14H634)

Mr. SPECTER. Was there any other reason why you left Dallas to go to Oklahoma City?

Mrs. OLSEN. No; just to make some money for Christmas.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Mr. Olsen have an accident at about that time?

Mrs. OLSEN. Yes; while I was up there.

Mr. SPECTER. What happened to him exactly?

Mrs. OLSEN. He totaled his car; hit a telephone pole.

Mr. SPECTER. When you say "totaled," you mean a total wreck?

Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. What injuries, if any, did he sustain?

Mrs. OLSEN. I think he broke two bones in his leg and he separated his shoulder and he had multiple chest injuries, black eye.

Mr. SPECTER. Was he hospitalized?

Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Where?

Mrs. OLSEN. Methodist Hospital. (14H653)

Trying to bolster his claim that Olsen did not have a broken leg at the time of the assassination Thomas claims And his employement records show that he worked Thursday, the day before the assassination, and again on Monday, the first regular working day following the assassination, taking only Friday off to nurse his bum leg." (Hear No Evil page 515).

But Thomas doesnt cite any employment records, and Olsen told the Warren Commission that he was working light duty at the DPD;

Mr SPECTER. How did it happen that you were not on duty with the police department on the day President Kennedy was in town?

Mr OLSEN. I had my leg in a cast and I was doing light duty, which was working in the office, patrol office, and I had asked them if they needed me to work that day and they said no.

Still further trying to bolster his claim that Olsen did not have a broken leg at the time of the assassination Thomas writes;

....forgetting he had a broken leg, stated that he had walked to the estate, which was supposedly on Eigth Street, only four blocks away from Coleman's apartment (Hear No Evil page 515)

This is classic Thomas, misleading the reader into thinking Olsen lied and forgot he had claimed he had a broken leg when he testified that he walked to Colemans apartment. But here is what Olsen really said about this;

Mr SPECTER. How did you get from the house which you were guarding to Kay's house?

Mr OLSEN. Walked.

Mr SPECTER. How far was it?

Mr OLSEN. About 4 blocks.

Mr SPECTER. Did the cast on your knee restrict your walking in any material way?

Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir.

Mr SPECTER. Were you able to walk with the cast on your knee?

Mr OLSEN. A little bit, not much.

Mr SPECTER. But you were able to walk well enough to cover those 4 blocks to Kay's house?

Mr OLSEN. Yes. And it swelled after I had walked it, though.

Mr SPECTER. What did you do after arriving at Kay's house?

Mr OLSEN. Well, going back to that, I had crutches, I believe, that I used. Now, what was the question?

Mr SPECTER. After you arrived at Kay's house, what did you do then?

If jumping the gun and making assumptions ever become Olympic events then I'm sure Team U.S.A. will have no trouble finding it's gold medal winners.

Who is helping anyone with anything? Were you this picky with the details when Posner's book came out? The fact is Myers DOES NOT represent Thomas' book in either a respectful or scholarly way. He leaves many things out, as is his MO. I simply filled in the gaps. Would you like me to go through the rest of the damn article and do the same thing?

Answer me a question then Mr. Know-it-all. You claim that Thomas is wrong about the hospital records. That Olsen actually broke his leg twice. Actually, to get factual on the matter, if you break your kneecap you haven't broken your leg. You have actually broken your kneecap. Just thought I'd point that out because you like to portray the image of someone who likes to get the details right. Anyway, you then use Olsen's testimony to prove this proves Thomas wrong. The only thing that would prove Thomas wrong would be the medical records of Olsen.

Alternatively, we can believe what you believe, in that Olsen broke his kneecap, went to work on crutches, took only one day off from work that just happened to be the assassination, was quite obviously knocking a slice off of one of Jack Ruby's strippers, before walking to an "estate" we don't know the address of and no one has been able to subsequently find, whilst at the estate he's moonlighting on the biggest day in DPD history as a security guard even when ALL leave was suspended for that day and this is all done within a few blocks of where his friend JD Tippit is gunned down and killed.

You, Todd, don't expect me to call out Myers for leaving out stuff and not do the same with you, would you? The only thing you have cited as a rebuttal to Thomas' work is the testimony of Harry Olsen. Why not give us something a bit more substantial? Tell us the address of the estate that Olsen was hobbling around as a one legged security guard? He seemed to forget the address. Maybe you know more than he did?

You write:

"The only thing you have cited as a rebuttal to Thomas' work is the testimony of Harry Olsen."

And that's all Thomas did. And he got it wrong. Had you checked Thomas; citations, you'd have found the same thing.

I guess you don't get it. Some people never will. Have a great day.

Edited December 6, 2010 by Todd W. Vaughan

[Todd W. Vaughan]

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2010/12/tippit-murder-why-conspiracy-theorists.html

The above-linked article by Dale K. Myers is absolutely phenomenal.

Truly magnificent.

David Von Pein

December 5, 2010

EXCERPTS:

"The part-time sleuth [Don Thomas] claims that Tippit and [Harry]

Olsen confronted Oswald at Tenth and Patton, and in a bizarre twist,

both Oswald and Olsen shot Tippit dead – both killers then fleeing the

scene on foot.

"Stop, stop, STOP. How in the hell does Harry Olsen flee the Tippit

shooting scene on foot?

"Apparently, Mr. Thomas is ignorant of the fact that Olsen had fallen

and broken his kneecap just before the assassination. On November

22nd, Olsen’s leg was in a cast and he was using crutches. In fact,

Olsen was assigned light duty (doing office work) during that period

and had the day off. That’s how he happened to be moonlighting on the

day of the assassination; acting as a guard at the property of an

elderly woman located on Eighth Street, two blocks from the Stemmons

Freeway in Oak Cliff.

"Does Mr. Thomas tell his readers any of this? Of course not.

According to Thomas, Olsen is not a lame officer on crutches; oh no,

in Thomas’ conspiracy fantasy Olsen is making a fast getaway on foot

after gunning down a fellow police officer.

It would be helpful if YOU had read the damn book. It would also be helpful if Myers "...told his readers" that what he is spouting concerning the content of Thomas' work is "error-riddled" and a "load of crap."

Concerning the Olsen episode, Thomas states that in Olsen's Warren Commission testimony he "claimed that he took the day off because of a broken leg. But hospital records show that Olsen broke his leg in a car accident on December 7th, two weeks after the assassination, not before. And his employement records show that he worked Thursday, the day before the assassination, and again on Monday, the first regular working day following the assassination, taking only Friday off to nurse his bum leg." Hear No Evil page 515.

You can only make your point by insisting on pulling the wool over people's eyes. Ain't that right, Dave? It all certainly becomes blindly ideological when you 100% agree with one of your hierarchy's articles when you haven't even read the work that he is endeavouring to debunk. If everyone on this board didn't already know how non-existent your honesty is when it comes to the issues then this post of yours would be well and truly laughable.

What does Myers say? "That’s how he [Olsen] happened to be moonlighting on the day of the assassination; acting as a guard at the property of an elderly woman located on Eighth Street, two blocks from the Stemmons Freeway in Oak Cliff."

But what does Myers leave out? "According to Olsen he spent the day guarding an estate, but could not remember the name or the address of the estate....forgetting he had a broken leg, stated that he had walked to the estate, which was supposedly on Eigth Street, only four blocks away from Coleman's apartment [Kathy Kay Coleman whom Olsen was having an affair with]" Hear No Evil page 515.

As Thomas points out, and he uses the work of four researchers who went to look for this elusive estate, "there were no estates on Eigth street, or anywhere else in central Oak Cliff, a rundown neighborhoood where many of the residents are minorities...[Penn] Jones of Midlothian Texas drove to Oak Cliff and searched the area for the alleged "estate." Jones assures us that there were no estates on Eigth Street within several blocks either side of Exing, and in fact, no "estates" anywhere in the neighborhood." Hear No Evil page 515-516.

Why don't you, and Myers, get on ebay and see if you can get a good deal on some honesty that may come in useful when representing, and trying to take the piss out of, someone elses work?

Thomas is once again misleading the reader and distorting the record in this case, and you’re helping him.

Thomas claims “…hospital records show that Olsen broke his leg in a car accident on December 7th, two weeks after the assassination, not before” (Hear No Evil page 515).

But Thomas doesn’t cite any such “hospital records”. Instead he cites the Warren Commission testimony of Harry Olsen himself and that of Olsen’s girlfriend Kathy Kay Coleman.

Their testimony makes it clear that Olsen broke his leg twice.

The first time was before the assassination;

Mr SPECTER. How did it happen that you were not on duty with the police department on the day President Kennedy was in town?

Mr OLSEN. I had my leg in a cast and I was doing light duty, which was working in the office, patrol office, and I had asked them if they needed me to work that day and they said no.

Mr SPECTER. What sort of an accident did you have to injure your leg?

Mr OLSEN. I fell and broke my kneecap.

Mr SPECTER. When did that occur?

Mr OLSEN. Oh, several weeks before.

Mr SPECTER. At what hospital were you treated?

Mr OLSEN. Baylor Hospital.

Mr SPECTER. Is that in Dallas?

Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir; it's on Gaston. (14H629)

The second time was after the assignation;

Mr SPECTER. When did you last talk to Wally Weston?

Mr OLSEN. When I was in the hospital after the car accident.

Mr SPECTER. When did that car accident occur?

Mr OLSEN. December 7.

Mr SPECTER. How long were you in the hospital?

Mr OLSEN. Two weeks, two and a half weeks.

Mr SPECTER. What injuries did you sustain in that automobile collision?

Mr OLSEN. I rebroke my leg.

Mr SPECTER. In the same place?

Mr OLSEN. The same place and some more breaks. And I cracked my chest bone.

Mr SPECTER. Indicating your sternum?

Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir. And I broke some ribs.

Mr SPECTER. What hospital were you in?

Mr OLSEN. Methodist.( 14H634)

Mr. SPECTER. Was there any other reason why you left Dallas to go to Oklahoma City?

Mrs. OLSEN. No; just to make some money for Christmas.

Mr. SPECTER. Did Mr. Olsen have an accident at about that time?

Mrs. OLSEN. Yes; while I was up there.

Mr. SPECTER. What happened to him exactly?

Mrs. OLSEN. He totaled his car; hit a telephone pole.

Mr. SPECTER. When you say "totaled," you mean a total wreck?

Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. What injuries, if any, did he sustain?

Mrs. OLSEN. I think he broke two bones in his leg and he separated his shoulder and he had multiple chest injuries, black eye.

Mr. SPECTER. Was he hospitalized?

Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.

Mr. SPECTER. Where?

Mrs. OLSEN. Methodist Hospital. (14H653)

Trying to bolster his claim that Olsen did not have a broken leg at the time of the assassination Thomas claims “And his employement records show that he worked Thursday, the day before the assassination, and again on Monday, the first regular working day following the assassination, taking only Friday off to nurse his bum leg." (Hear No Evil page 515).

But Thomas doesn’t cite any employment records, and Olsen told the Warren Commission that he was working light duty at the DPD;

Mr SPECTER. How did it happen that you were not on duty with the police department on the day President Kennedy was in town?

Mr OLSEN. I had my leg in a cast and I was doing light duty, which was working in the office, patrol office, and I had asked them if they needed me to work that day and they said no.

Still further trying to bolster his claim that Olsen did not have a broken leg at the time of the assassination Thomas writes;

“....forgetting he had a broken leg, stated that he had walked to the estate, which was supposedly on Eigth Street, only four blocks away from Coleman's apartment” (Hear No Evil page 515)

This is classic Thomas, misleading the reader into thinking Olsen lied and forgot he had claimed he had a broken leg when he testified that he walked to Coleman’s apartment. But here is what Olsen really said about this;

Mr SPECTER. How did you get from the house which you were guarding to Kay's house?

Mr OLSEN. Walked.

Mr SPECTER. How far was it?

Mr OLSEN. About 4 blocks.

Mr SPECTER. Did the cast on your knee restrict your walking in any material way?

Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir.

Mr SPECTER. Were you able to walk with the cast on your knee?

Mr OLSEN. A little bit, not much.

Mr SPECTER. But you were able to walk well enough to cover those 4 blocks to Kay's house?

Mr OLSEN. Yes. And it swelled after I had walked it, though.

Mr SPECTER. What did you do after arriving at Kay's house?

Mr OLSEN. Well, going back to that, I had crutches, I believe, that I used. Now, what was the question?

Mr SPECTER. After you arrived at Kay's house, what did you do then?

If jumping the gun and making assumptions ever become Olympic events then I'm sure Team U.S.A. will have no trouble finding it's gold medal winners.

Who is helping anyone with anything? Were you this picky with the details when Posner's book came out? The fact is Myers DOES NOT represent Thomas' book in either a respectful or scholarly way. He leaves many things out, as is his MO. I simply filled in the gaps. Would you like me to go through the rest of the damn article and do the same thing?

Answer me a question then Mr. Know-it-all. You claim that Thomas is wrong about the hospital records. That Olsen actually broke his leg twice. Actually, to get factual on the matter, if you break your kneecap you haven't broken your leg. You have actually broken your kneecap. Just thought I'd point that out because you like to portray the image of someone who likes to get the details right. Anyway, you then use Olsen's testimony to prove this proves Thomas wrong. The only thing that would prove Thomas wrong would be the medical records of Olsen.

Alternatively, we can believe what you believe, in that Olsen broke his kneecap, went to work on crutches, took only one day off from work that just happened to be the assassination, was quite obviously knocking a slice off of one of Jack Ruby's strippers, before walking to an "estate" we don't know the address of and no one has been able to subsequently find, whilst at the estate he's moonlighting on the biggest day in DPD history as a security guard even when ALL leave was suspended for that day and this is all done within a few blocks of where his friend JD Tippit is gunned down and killed.

You, Todd, don't expect me to call out Myers for leaving out stuff and not do the same with you, would you? The only thing you have cited as a rebuttal to Thomas' work is the testimony of Harry Olsen. Why not give us something a bit more substantial? Tell us the address of the estate that Olsen was hobbling around as a one legged security guard? He seemed to forget the address. Maybe you know more than he did?

You write:

"The only thing you have cited as a rebuttal to Thomas' work is the testimony of Harry Olsen."

And that's all Thomas did. And he got it wrong.Had you checked Thomas; citations, you'd have found the same thing.

I guess you don't get it. Some people never will. Have a great day.

Your misplaced superiority complex kicking in again?

I take it you don't know where this elusive "estate" was then?

I take it your business hires one legged security guards?

I take it you don't know that people in the U.K. live in a different time zone and our day is actually long over and it's nearly time for bed?

Have a great night.

[Jack White]

In the 1980s a witness who spoke at Jim Marrs UTA class identified the "estate" where Olson

worked, and produced a hand-drawn map showing its location. It was, as I recall, about

two blocks from Ruby's apartment. I think I have in my collection somewhere a copy of

the map. Ask Jim Marrs if he remembers this.

Jack

[William Kelly]

Actually, I agree with Myers on this one, up until he drags me into it.

I heard Don Thomas give a COPA talk in Dallas in November 2002, and thought his power point presentation on the acoustics was pretty good.

http://www.parapolit...opa2002gallery/

Then I read the chapter on the Tippit murder that was posted at Mary Ferrell and was quite surprised at how sloppy it is and mish mash of all the CT books that have been written, and confusing things even more by quoting Dale Myers and bringing in the Carl Mather/Collins Radio episode, mixing it in with the other leads, some of which

were run down and explained long ago.

http://www.maryferre...sPageId=1538456

I was dismayed, because I think the acoustical evidence - the echo pattern analysis and fingerprint of the Dealey Plaza acostics can be developed into real forensic evidence, and Thomas should have stuck to the science and the scientific methods that can be used to refine what we know and how we know it.

I recently came across a hard copy of an article I wrote about the acoustic evidence years ago, before the articles and books were written by Thomas and Myers, that I posted here:

http://jfkcountercou...laza-echos.html

Thomas might understand and promote the acoustical evidence accurately, but when it came to the Tippit murder, he was all over the place and seems like he is really speculating off the wall.

While Thomas mentions the Carl Mather episode, he doesn't really drag me into it, like Dale Myers does in his review of a book that doesn't mention me at all.

Why drag me into it? As all of my research and writing on this still stands solid today, and has been developed even further than what Myers cites, and Thomas doesn't mention me at all, why am I part of Myers' review of Thomas' book?

Thomas doesn't even cite my work in his notes - but instead cites the HSCA, which published the information under the title "The Wise Allegation," although Wes doesn't make any allegations, and neither do I.

In fact, most of what Dale Myers writes is true - Thomas seems to speculate a lot about things that are open to be speclated about.

But the Carl Mather/Collins Radio connection has nothing to do with anything that Thomas wrote other than his own bone headed speculations, and Myers inference that it has something to do with me.

The fact that Dale Myers has to drag my research through this mud bath is what startles me, as I certainly don't want Myers to be trying to explain my research and work any more than I want Thomas to do it.

And I have a tape recorded interview with Wes Wise in which he says that he kept the piece of paper Mr. White wrote the license plate tag number, and promised Mr. White that he wouldn't be involved, but the FBI broke Wise's promise and did intimidate White and didn't bother to properly question Mather as he should have been, and neither did CBS, who tried, nor did the HSCA question Mather even though he was given immunity from prosecution to do so.

I'm sorry to hear that Mr. Mather has passed away before he could be properly questioned by anyone.

While I agree with most of what Myers says about Thomas' chapter on the Tippit murder, I resent Myers for wrongfully associating my research and work with the work of Thomas and now his own, neither of which can be considered encompasing or comprehensive of what is known about the murder of JD Tippit.

Bill Kelly

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/

Good grief Bill, you make it sound like you didn't even read the article.

Myers quite obviously "drags you into it" because after dealing with Don Thomas's outright deception of the facts of Wes Wise allegation regarding T.F. White and Carl Mather, Myers then has to deal with Thomas' claims that Mather's connection to Collins Radio is "particularly disturbing because Collins Radio was a front for the CIA," which is sourced to Anthony Summers which in turn is sourced to none other than YOU.

So of course Myers deals with your Collins Radio issue.

Stop acting like Myers singled you out for some nefarious reason. The fact is that Myers is reviewing what Thomas wrote and Thomas brought it up.What do you expect him to do, ignore it? God forbid he do that, you'd be all over him about it, as you have in the past..

Excuse me, but my name nor my work, nor the work of Tony Summers is footnoted nor mentioned in Don Thomas' book or chapter on the Tippit Murder. If Myers wants to deal with my research and articles on Collins Radio and its connections to the assassination of President Kennedy or the murder of JD Tippit then let's discuss it, but why entwine it with Thomas' book?

My DC COPA presentation, the publication of the article in Backchannels and my update of the article on the Collins Radio Connections were all written over a decade ago, so why does Myers suddenly bring it up here and now, and confuse it with Thomas' book, which I agree with Myers is not an accurate portrait of the evidence in the murder of JD Tippit.

I'm glad Thomas doesn't cite my work or Summers' work, because I don't think Thomas has a handle on the Tippit murder evidence or witnesses, though I agree with him that the official story is wrong.

But why would I even want to entangle my work with Thomas', who I believe doesn't present the best evidence in the best fashion, or Myers, who I believe intentionally attempts to decieve people with the way he approaches the murder of Tippit and attempts to portray it? Both of these guys are wrong, one being a wildly speculative Conspiracy Theorists and the other being a narrow minded Lone Nutter, both with preconceived notions of what happened at 10th and Patton and false perceptions of who Lee Harvey Oswald was and what he did that day.

I am well prepared to discuss my work, my research and my articles, but I won't do it on Dale Myers false terms, wrongfully implicating me with Don Thomas, who I have appeared with once at a COPA conference but never talked to or communicated with, and trying to ride my work on the back of his speculative thoeories that I disagree with.

My Collins Radio Connection has been out there for over fifteen years and finally Dale Myers gets around to trying to debunk it, using Don Thomas' weak soap box as the place to do it?

No, Good Grief, give me a freakin' break, will ya?

You want to deal with me, and what I wrote? Deal with me.

Dale Myers wants to deal with my work then deal with me, don't go dilly dallying and dancing around Don Thomas.

The very week Dale Myers book came out, I read it and discussed it with a criminal justice class that I was asked to give a talk to about the Kennedy assassination.

I pointed out to the class the very aspects of the book that were intentionally deceptive, then a week later, the class flew to Dallas and I introduced them to Wes Wise,

who took them on a tour of the assassination sites in Dallas, including the El Chino Mexican restaurant in Oak Cliff.

I also met Dale Myers at the Sixth Floor gift shop where he was signing copies of his book, and I asked him about the Wes Wise - White incident,

and when he denied its signifiance, I pulled a copy of Tony Summers' book Not In Your Lifetime - off the shelf - (who says they don't carry conspiracy books?),

and I pointed out the signifance, which he apprently still denies.

That night, with the criminal justice class and Tink Thompson, I attended a program at the 7th Floor with some of the reporters who covered the assassination,

including Wes Wise, who later became a mayor of Dallas.

In any case, Dale Myers has known all about the Collins Radio Connection and my research, and the references in Tony Summers' book for over a decade, and

I don't appreciate him mixing it up with Don Thomas' stuff because I don't think Thomas has a handle on the Tippit murder, and should stick to the scientific and

acoustical evidence, where he is on more firm ground.

So Todd, my old train mate, if you or Dale want to discuss the Collins Radio Connections then lets do it, but don't confuse people any more than they are after reading Dale's book,

or Thomas' work, since I'm not mentioned in either, and I prefer it that way.

Bill Kelly

http://jfkcountercoup.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/collins-radio-connections/

[David Von Pein]

If you break your kneecap you haven't broken your leg.

Any more hairs you want to split today, Mr. Farley?

Farley must think a person's kneecap is located in the neck (or maybe the chest).

You do realize, don't you Farley, that Donald Thomas is suggesting that Harry Olsen SHOT J.D. TIPPIT TO DEATH as part of a TWO-GUNMEN TEAM on Tenth Street on 11/22/63?

And Thomas makes that roundabout accusation despite the provable fact that NOT ONE WITNESS ever claimed to see TWO men with guns on 10th St. that day. Not even Mrs. Clemmons said she saw two guns.

Thomas is making up xxxx out of thin air. But that's evidently perfectly okay with the Lee Farleys of the world.

BTW, for a really good laugh when it comes to kooky conspiracy claims regarding the Tippit murder, check out the two-part debate that LNer John Corbett had with mega-conspiracy kook Tom Rossley last month, wherein Rossley leaves everybody rolling in the aisles when he says that he thinks there were THREE guns involved in the Tippit slaying!

Holy smoke, you'd think that with THREE individual guns being fired at J.D. Tippit, Mr. Rossley could find room in his theory to have Tippit's one and only real killer (Lee Harvey Oswald) as one of those three gunmen, wouldn't you?

But no. Rossley thinks LHO was totally innocent, and three unknown killers committed the murder (two of which cloaked themselves during the shooting, so that Scoggins, Markham, Tatum, and Benavides would only see the one killer who looked just like Patsy Oswald).

The Rossley Debate

Edited December 6, 2010 by David Von Pein