David Josephs

Ron,

There was indeed a shot up at the top of ELM...  While "they" can say the Willis stops running due to being called... she heard a shot.

From a meeting with some of the witnesses years later:

Rosemary: As they made the turn from Houston to Elm Street, they'd just gone a few feet when the first shot rang out, and upon hearing the sound, my normal body reaction was to look up and follow the sound that I heard, it was so abrupt.

Hickey - if you look closely, looks down at the street from about 138 until 154...  The TOWNSEND film shows a quick jerk of JFK's head as well...  also they cut out the wide turn since it makes the SS look very bad...

More importantly - it removed shots....  3 and only 3 were allowed...  z313 was shot #2 as early as the TIME/LIFE re-enactment/survey (actually another 4 feet down ELM) in Nov 63...

313 was shot #2 in the Dec FBI/SS survey and again in Feb with the FBI survey....

On 3/22/2018 at 4:50 PM, B. A. Copeland said:

Larry, just your personal opinion (or observation), but do you believe the Mexican Govt. has (or had) important documentation related to MC circa 1963?

Sorry to butt in....   The FBI seemed to have informants within the DFS as well as their own surveillance programs...  I'd think there was quite a lot from Mexico from this time...

One would think that the spies within the DFS would make sure to get any important info to Pres Mateos...  and if the Mexicans were watching Kostikov, they could probably prove Oswald was not there....

LIEMBRACE A Mexico City-based surveillance project, under the umbrella LIPSTICK project. LIEMBRACE included a surveillance team, a radio repairman, and a photo truck team.

LITENSOR Adolfo Lopez Mateos, President of Mexico in 1963.
LIENVOY CIA telephone tapping program in Mexico City, targeting Cuban and Soviet embassies and run in conjunction with the Mexican DFS. Netted phone calls allegedy of Oswald. See also LIFEAT.

On 2/3/2018 at 11:40 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

David,

I'm pretty sure you are not paying close attention to what I'm writing. Here is our most recent exchange:

Sandy:  Are you aware of any evidence for that road trip BY CAR to MC?

David:  Yes of course I'm aware of it... I found most of it...

So what you are saying here is that you found most the evidence of a road trip BY CAR to Mexico City. I don't think so. I think you found most the evidence of a trip BY BUS.

But I hope I'm wrong. I hope you have indeed found evidence of a trip by an alleged Oswald BY CAR. Because that would prove my theory to be correct.

 

The information about a car comes from a very specific source...  the FM-11 which was used as the basis for 2 cards typed up by TIJERINA.

CASH lies to his superiors in this Jan 13 1964 memo...   the note should say "CHAPMAN"  not  "CASHMAN"  has the 11/24 info from what was on those cards....  below that is one piece of the FM-11 showing "AUTO" - but we must remember something about that form and where all the evidence comes from:

Our GOBERNACION FBI asset "makes material changes" to the FM-11 for clarity.... 

so what starts to happen on 11/23 is the gathering of all bus line data from those dates, the creation of bus line evidence which includes Oswald,
and the addition of a few choice words on the FM-11.... (the man who did this also had the Tourists visas, applications and the hotel registry book)

Also notice the different names on the two cards...  one, LEE, Harvey Oswald or HARVEY OSWALD LEE is the man leaving the 3rd (due to the Greyhound evidence which shows H.O. LEE)
OSWALD, Lee Harvey or LEE HARVEY OSWALD arrived the 26th with literally zero info recorded...   admonishments were given due to the lack of info on these forms - we should see the mode of transport, the date, the destination, etc....   the cards were created after the fact based on info from CASH who we see lies to his bosses at I&NS about the evidence and what it says.

Oswald did not drive.... any accusation that puts him in a car, puts him with co-conspirators....  that was the CIA PHASE 1... Castro conspiracy (just ask Alvarado)

Phase 2 is Lone Nut... so the car ride MUST become a solo bus ride....

What theory are you talking about Sandy?

The "car-trip" was part of the charade....  part of the CIA's charade...

One group of "car" evidence claims he arrived with a woman and a man... Bill and Elaine ALLEN... except their name was BRILL and the investigation proved negative...
(Oswald 201 Vol 3 folder 8 p147)

One last little point

The man was known in Mexico as H.O.LEE...  Last name LEE... as we see below in a typed sequential ALPHABETIC version of the FM-11...

Why is Mr. LEE alphabetized between Mr. Moore and Mr. Ouellet... as if whoever alphabetized this, knew his name was Oswald... 

Mr. LEE's return home "evidence"  -  they finally settled on a Del Norte bus for his return....  (maybe go see what the Aussie girl says about the bus she took.... and why it was not possible, using the journey offered, for our Oswald to have been on that bus, even if he had taken the trip described...

1 hour ago, Paz Marverde said:

Which one, please?

We spoke of this in a diff thread PAZ...   the film which shows the entire turn, SS agents leaving their car... etc...

Same angle as Zapruder... but much more film.

(as I have been saying and Chris has been proving)

Jason...

Please see the 6-part series on Mexico   (part 6 is still in the works and would be a chronology)

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-evidence-is-the-conspiracy-index 

When you've had a chance to get thru the first 2 or 3 of these, we can talk again...

Since Oswald was not on any of these buses... you will see the creation/realization/alteration/destruction/replacement cycle of evidence repeatedly...

Jason, evidence was altered and created for the sole purpose of putting Oswald in Mexico...

Initially, the FBI puts Oswald on this bus home... the 2pm Oct 2 Transportes Fronteras bus...

Except all of this document was changed to put OSWALT on line 4, and change the original Nov date to Oct 3...
When it was discovered that this bus would not get him to Dallas in time, based on the connections, THEY DROPPED IT and picked a different way home...

Before they dropped it - March 12, 1964 - That document was accepted as proof of Oswald's travel home....

Except CE2453 shows that none of the info on this doc related to Oswald, date or time is real... and was changed by ARTURO BOSCH within hours of the assassination...

If you read the work you'll find ALL the bus lines' info was taken for Sept 26 thru Oct 3....

and finally, as I said, when they found this bus could not get him there, they needed other evidence....  the 434 miles from Laredo to Dallas is a 8-10 hour trip....
also included is the TEC appt evidence....

Yes Jason... the FBI with the help of a highly placed asset in the GOBERNACION (unnamed until my work) created the Mexico trip of Lee, Harvey Oswald.

Mr. Rago is a banned member from WAAAAAY back...

If that is even him...

.... yet he is correct...  while everyone had cameras and polaroids taken immediately....   he wanders off and a legend is born.

Add to this the "other" film from the similar angle which a handful have seen.... and yes... the man's film was treated with a special kind of reverence....

Mrs. Z claims "they" came by and took the original later that evening....

and for those who wonder why so much was left in the film which suggests conspiracy....  1 shot can be explained away... the alteration was to remove obvious signs of multiple shots very close together... and in places there shouldn't have been shots seen given the 3 shot 3 hit scenario

54 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

What's the difference between z118 and z133?

The difference between the front of the limo (z133) and JFK in the limo... 15.25 feet further back or about 15.33 frames @ 1 foot per frame

133 - 118 = 15

All depends on where on the limo we are talking...  front bumper, JFK, or rear bumper....

edit: Or they simply moved 118 to 133....  to create the sync

Bart... was Gloria a very tall woman?  Sure seems that way in this comparison

I have them both in the same place, just moved Baker over ...   if she was a tall woman, it adds a bit more confirmation....

Nicely done  

I think we're missing the forest for the chlorophyll ...     but on the same page

I too have studied SOP patterns and compared them to how OSWALD's info was treated and gathered...  Point remains (and I'll show you below) the FBI in Dallas knew about Oswald being placed in Mexico by the CIA when in all reality he was at Odio and at the shooting range.  But the FBI could not have that after 11/22....  So Hoover and the FBI generated thousands of pages of evidence to bury the fact he never went to Mexico.  (kennedyandkings has my 6 parts on Mexico https://kennedysandking.com/content/author/361-davidjosephs?start=10  ) 

As we move forward Jason - any conclusions on the subject of whether he actually went or not? you know where I stand...

With specific regards to "the American" and reports on LHO during this time period....

1. Oswald was not in Mexico in NOV, why would the Jan report on Nov say so?  A: This is the first Status report after the Assassination. 
2. If the delay was actually present, the OCT report dated NOV 7 mentions "a contact"  despite now having the extra month THIS report, if Oswald was actually there and did all they said he did, would be in this report... or at least mentioned....  
   Any ideas why Exploitation of LIENVOY does not mention OSWALD by name along with the other contacts he had in Sept?  A: He wasn't there and not put there until after 11/22 
3. You must then be aware of SA PECK's work... 
   Nov 4th and throughout Nov until the 23rd we get reports - including from the SOURCE OF THE MEXICO TRAVEL INFO, the GOBERNACION - that there is simply no info on LEE or any derivative thereof.
   
    
4. We now also know that BRINGUIER was an FBI informant... so the entire Trade Mart fight we KNOW to be a set-up to gain exposure and potentially bona fides for Oswald's infiltration work for the FBI/CIA/ONI/???
    
5. KAACK's report of Oct 31 is mostly about the New Orleans arrest...  the report does not address why there is no information about Oswald between 9/24 and the report's date.
   
   HOSTY receives the 10/16 memo from WIN SCOTT via his contact at I&NS Jeff Woosley (below) - the FBI now knows the CIA has put LEE OSWALD in Mexico... (I believe Hosty knew Oswald was in Dallas at ODIO)...  YET...  despite HOSTY and DALLAS knowing about Oswald, where he's been, there is no mention of the previous 35 days or Mexico.  The FBI took is seriously given the search for Oswald during Nov...
   
   
   
   
   
   

The discussion has been had Ron...  Zavada claims there is a 15% lightness in 133 that accounts for the bleed...

The real problem is accepting that a 1960's B&H could stop and start on a single frame with no indication...

I don't think that's possible...

Zapruder filmed the HESTER's ... what strikes me about that piece is the horrible quality of it...  those who claimed to have seen the in camera original spoke of how vibrant the colors were....  this looks like many, many generations...  yet compare it to the zframes above...

Not even close to the same quality...   ??

Once a splice is accepted at 132/133, Position A and STATION C takes on even greater meaning

16 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

In the Albert Kennedy example you provide, May telephone tap activity is documented in a June report, actually written on 30July, right?

Not as I see it Jason... the SEPT report which includes mention of meetings after the 14th of Sept has a date of OCT 8.

The LIENVOY info from SEPT is contained in the OCT status report for SEPT.  The only month where there is a delay is the NOV status report which was finally put out in JAN 1964... a month late.... and includes info about OSWALD despite his not being there in NOV

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32371751.pdf

The June 11 19634 report for 1-31 MAY 1964....   there is no delay Jason...

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10413-10271.pdf  August 23, 1963 for JULY 1963

It would seem the first part of your post hinges on the reports being delayed....  can you readdress without that assumption?

-----------------

As for the rest of your reply... IDK what you're saying.  

1 - Oswald was never in Mexico.... that is my conclusion from the last 4+ years of work on the subject
2 - The point of the post is this:  Reports contemporaneously written when they were supposed to, BEFORE the assassination, do not contain the information as it was cobbled together AFTER the shooting.   It does no good to show in JAN 1964, that an American named OSWALD contacted the Soviet/Cuban Embassies in a report about NOV 1963.  

It goes a long way to see the report which includes Sept 27/28 (when we are told there were numerous calls with DURAN identifying the person as "the American"...) that does not mention an American at all...

To see an OCT report which boils down the events of Oct 1st to a non descript sentence....   Given what LIENVOY is expected to do when AMERICANS are encountered....   They were watching/listening for defection clues....  this is an AMERICAN wanting to go to CUBA or RUSSIA...  as you show, given the reports from mid Oct... one would think the status report on Oct would be more forthcoming with info about the AMERICAN...

8 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi David,

THANKS for beginning with evidence instead of speculation.

I looked at every 2017 document release and the Mexico City traffic was prominent.   One of the main reactions I have to your post is: can you show how another American contact at the Cuban or Soviet embassies were handled differently?

 

Jason

You'll excuse me for asking...  There are 33000 lines in the spreadsheet of the index... how did you get thru all of them already?
There are many with no date, no info at all...

Just curious really Jason....  as I go thru these every day and have been thru 1750 so far...

9 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

This was on October 8th?  

Which was allegedly a week later, after Oswald was gone from Mexico City?

Yes, a week after the Oct 1st call...we get a report of all the SEPT activity...

Jason, you're very welcome - I try to include the evidence in all my posts....

I went back to some earlier STATUS reports and found this from JULY 1963

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10052-10096.pdf

It is not until the NOV report, written in JANUARY 1964 for events from NOV 1963 - do they mention Oswald...

There was no STATUS REPORT in DEC in the release...

So one of the key clues to there having been a cover-up are the extemporaneous reports written at the time which does not take notice of important things until after November 22.

One example being there was not a single FBI report on Oswald having received a rifle, let alone ever actually seen with it...

Another are the calls attributed to Oswald on Sept 27 and 28, 1963... 

On October 8th, the day after Phillips arrives in Mexico City as Cuban Desk Chief, this summary report is prepared after reviewing the tapped calls...  now while the calls of the 27th - being in Spanish - are not at all attributed to Oswald, the calls on the 28th are...

Shouldn't we be seeing mention of the calls from the 28th which were so critical to Oswald?

Checking the NOV STATUS REPORT we do find mention of a call to the Soviet Embassy by an American... but if we remember, the call was first to the Soviet Military ATTACHE...
followed by ones to the Embassy.   Following is the NOV status report offering one mention of an English speaking man calling the Embassy...  whether this has anything to do with Oswald - which I am certain it did not - is not said.

Calls involving Oswald were supposedly made on Sept 27, 28 and Oct 1 & 3... with multiple contacts on most days...

And all it warranted was a single line about an American....

To accept a stop.start we have to accept the camera stopped on a frame line and started up with no bleed or delay...

So much for an unaltered original...

Yes... Good source...

Here's a better view of those frames... And why it was a splice and not a stop and start...

Zapruder also said he filmed the limo turning the corner....

4 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

StationC location for JFK "within the limo", on the extant Towner film, is inside the green box

7 frames is not enough for this to work...  The Myers 22-frames per second problem?

But even then...  nothing in TOWNER suggests what TRULY said...  yet why would TRULY exaggerate about that?

No one else was even asked about that turn....  yet the limo was placed at Pos A for the Re-enactment...  as if the limo passed thru there.

From frame z22 to z120 the far left motorcycle takes the wide turn and passes thru Pos A just as it gets to the splice at z132
The center motorcycle is just about at STATION C...  yes?

110 frames @ 18.3fps = 6 seconds...

Like Zapruder, TOWNER does seem to have the limo "float" by..... at a smooth rate of speed

12 minutes ago, Paz Marverde said:

David,

I'm frankly astonished someone here is criticizing you instead of criticizing the one every day, all day long insulting you and your excellent work

DVP is here to remind us the government is benevolent and NEVER lies to its people...

He never met Allen Dulles or John McCloy....

I have no doubt he believes he wrote on paper related to the assassination...  trouble is, DAY saying so doesn't make it so...

More importantly Dave... connect the bag to Oswald, the rifle and the ride to work...

Now my favorite part.... 

The closest person to that bag NOT in the DPD is WESLEY...  his sister claimed it to be 27.5" long (2 feet 3.5 inches).  Why is your star witness telling us this bag could not possibly hold a 34" rifle and metal parts...??

Spin this from FRAZIER Dave...  We'd agree the paper to wrap books is much thicker and sturdier than a grocery store paper sack...  Why is Wesley here describing a LITTLE SACK as opposed to a three and a half foot heavy paper and thick tape (ever see tape on a lunch sack?) or the rattling of the rifle parts as they drove to work?

Mr. BALL - What did the package look like? 
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I will be frank with you, I would just, it is right as you get out of the grocery store, just more or less out of a package, you have seen some of these brown paper sacks you can obtain from any, most of the stores, some varieties, but it was a package just roughly about two feet long. 

As for people telling their version of the truth... you're never drinking from that trough despite being led to it repeatedly...  we understand.

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/oswald-on-november-22-1963   you might read this and give some thought to the few days prior to the 22nd and his GRAND PLAN...

3 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

And Lt. Carl Day's handwritten message and signature on the CE142 bag pretty much "authenticates" it.

no David, it does not...

if the Chain begins and ends with DAY, there is a serious problem with Custody since he says he left it there for two other men who both do not take responsibility for it...

Help us out here Dave... where have you ever seen Day's writing on CE142?  And why renumber ce142 to ce636 after the FBI treats it for fingerprints?

CE626 below, inverted...  where is Day's writing again?  I can see it on the "replica" in the post above and on the scrap of paper...

I'm not saying they lied... just that whatever it was in that corner, it had nothing to do with Oswald, a trip in Frazier's car or a rifle...  when you can make those connections, let us know...

btw, answer one simple question....

When did he make the bag and bring it home... ?

How many different bags were needed Dave?

Dave... look at something OUT OF THE CORNER OF YOUR EYE....

Now tell us you haven't a clue what you saw...   he was asked half dozen times if he was sure he did see Oswald and did not see anything in his hands...   this is the best you can do "authenticating" the evidence?

David...  you did not authenticate anything at all.   Instead you focus on something that does not change a thing...
So let's try to focus Dave...

Get the bag:  Made, brought to Irving, put the disassembled rifle in it, retrieve said bag and rifle and clip and ammo Friday morning, bring it all over to Frazier, put it in the backseat of the car and only take up 2 feet (Frazier testimony), take it again and walk unnoticed with it into the TSBD, hide it somewhere, retrieve it, reassemble the rifle, load the rifle, align the scope, and be ready to fire when JFK arrives...

Talking to me about Dougherty and his inability to SEE is kind of lame Dave....  but I can see that's the best you got... 

2nd page, the FBI needed to change DAY's statement about the paper being the same...  replica K2, despite using the same paper dispenser, did NOT have the same characteristics as the "original"...  nor was it like ANY of the paper at the TSBD, and the TAPE was the wrong size and it too didn't match...

So once again David...  AUTHENTICATE THE BAG as real evidence - that it was actually in the corner, ever in MONTGOMERY's hands and why there are so many different bags around

Only a LNer could take this, combine it with the length and Frazier's lies about what he sees as Ozzie walks away and conclude the man put a 40" bag in the backseat of Frazier's car...

Mr. BALL. When you went down there what did you find? 
Mr. HICKS. Lieutenant Day--well, first I saw Chief Lumpkin, who told me Lieutenant Day was there in the building and to report to him on the sixth floor, I believe it was and he and Detective Studebaker, I believe it was were the two that were still on that particular floor. 
Mr. BALL. Day and Studebaker? 
Mr. HICKS. Yes. 
Mr. BALL. Did you do some work with them? 
Mr. HICKS. Yes; there was--well, no. Lieutenant Day was dusting several items around there for fingerprints at the time and Mr. Studebaker had taken some pictures and was still taking a few others. I assisted him in moving the equipment back and forth and I don't know, I don't believe I actually took any of the pictures upstairs; however, I was there when some of them were taken. 

DVP - please offer the authentication for that bag...   

Chain of Custody or whatever you like... but get it from workbench to Irving to the garage, to the Frazier's to the TSBD and beyond...
and then explain to us why this man is lying about what he saw.  I'll start with finding and taking the bag....

Montgomery is the man holding the bag and photographed in front of the TSBD - yet he did not pick up the rifle bag....

Mr. BALL. You found the sack in the area marked 2 on Exhibit J to the Studebaker deposition. Did you pick the sack up?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Which sack are we talking about now?
Mr. BALL. The paper sack?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. The small one or the larger one?
Mr. BALL. The larger one you mentioned that was in position 2.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. You picked it up?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Wait just a minute no; I didn't pick it up. I believe Mr. Studebaker did. We left it laying right there so they could check it for prints.

How about the men on the 6th floor ?

Mr. BELIN. Did you take it down to the station with you?
Mr. DAY. I didn't take it with me. I left it with the men when I left. I left Detectives Hicks and Studebaker to bring this in with them when they brought other equipment in.
 

Mr. STUDEBAKER. It was doubled - it was a piece of paper about this long and it was doubled over. 
Mr. BALL. How long was it, approximately? 
Mr. STUDEBAKER. I don't know - I picked it up and dusted it and they took it down there and sent it to Washington and that's the last I have seen of it, and I don't know. 
Mr. BALL. Did you take a picture of it before you picked it up? 
Mr. STUDEBAKER. No. 
Mr. BALL. Does that sack show in any of the pictures you took? 
Mr. STUDEBAKER. No; it doesn't show in any of the pictures. 

Mr. BALL. Did you ever see a paper sack in the items that were taken from the Texas School Book Depository building? 
Mr. HICKS. Paper bag? 
Mr. BALL. Paper bag. 
Mr. HICKS. No, sir; I did not. It seems like there was some chicken bones or maybe a lunch; no, I believe that someone had gathered it up. 
Mr. BALL. Well, this was another type of bag made out of brown paper; did you ever see it? 
Mr. HICKS. No, sir; I don't believe I did. I don't recall it.

Fingerprints Dave?   Seems quite a lot turns up after all the items are returned from DC and the FBI lab....  

Mr. BELIN. Did you find anything, any print of any kind, in connection with the processing of this?
Mr. DAY. No legible prints were found with the powder, no.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know whether any legible prints were found by any other means or any other place?
Mr. DAY. There is a legible print on it now. They were on there when it was returned to me from the FBI on November 24.  (really the 26th)

Maybe someone saw Oswald enter that morning?

Mr. BALL - Did you see him come in the door?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; I saw him when he first come in the door--yes. 
Mr. BALL - Did he have anything in his hands or arms? 
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, not that I could see of. 

Mr. BALL - Did he come in with anybody?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - He was alone?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; he was alone.
Mr. BALL - Do you recall him having anything in his hand? 
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't see anything, if he did.
Mr. BALL - Did you pay enough attention to him, you think, that you would remember whether he did or didn't?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I believe I can---yes, sir---I'll put it this way; I didn't see anything in his hands at the time.
Mr. BALL - In other words, your memory is definite on that is it? 
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - In other words, you would say positively he had nothing in his hands?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I would say that---yes, sir. 
Mr. BALL - Or, are you guessing?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I don't think so.
Mr. BALL - You saw him come in the door?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - The back door on the first floor? 
Mr. DOUGHERTY - It was in the back door.
 

I can't help but notice how the limo appears to move sideways thru these frames...

Chris - do me a favor... for T146, above, can you please show us where TOWNER IS in the Zfilm, as this is being filmed?

Below I've highlighted where the curb was in relation to the limo's position...

We also never see the slowing and hard left back to the center, in Towner...  (or Hughes or Bell for that matter)

Thanks Paz...

I try to proceed under the assumption that not everyone knows every little detail...  and try to put the info in context...

DJ

(shout out to Bart for his wonderful posts and excellent essays...    )