David Josephs
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Posts posted by David Josephs
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The only photos in the logs for Oct 1 is for 2URM = 2 Unidentified Russian Males
(edit: LEON is named at 12:05 in photo 6 & 7 and looks like 2 men in each photo whereas #'s 1 & 2 don't appear to show anyone.)
I haven't seen photos with 2 men in them in relation to these two men the one on the right I believe Tommy is talking about.
I'm still looking for the photo proof sheet for Oct 1 with the 2 photos each with 2 men in them. If it was either of these two - which is very possible, the "known man" could be one of them and not our famous mystery man, of whom no photos were taken on Oct 1 (yet were credited to Oct 1 even though they were Oct 2, 4 & 15.)
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Oswald wrote his mother, often, according to those who were asked and knew him in the Marines.
His mother wrote him back, and got upset that she hadn't heard from him in so long.
Oswald was placed on a list:
On November 10, 1959 the FBI posted a "Wanted Notice Card" for Lee Harvey Oswald.46 The CIA put Oswald on the watch list for the "HTLINGUAL" project. This means that Oswald's mail coming into and leaving the US would be read by CIA personnel under the direction of Newton "Scotty" Miller, of James Angleton's SIG (Special Investigations Group) in the Counterintelligence Section (CI).The WCR H&E section has Lee Harvey's letters to her, his letters to Robert, American Embassy, and everywhere else...
But what about all the letters to Lee Harvey ? Is it not just a bit strange that this man who supposedly saved the most random of items does not have a single letter from his family in his possessions? That the CIA nor FBI has a copy of any of these letters...
We really have no idea where "Harvey" comes from yet when this boy moves back to the South he is teased for his NY accent.
Another Beauregard classmate who knew Harvey Oswald was Ed Collier who
recalled, "We called him Yank because he had a Yankee accent."9
9 Peter Kihss, New York Times, Interview of Ed Collier, 11/25/63: p. 11.Oswald's cousin, Marilyn Murret, also talked about Harvey's northern accent.
She told the Warren Commission, "It seems that he was from the North, and so they
ridiculed him in school.. ... -
19 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:
Paul Trejo - ugh
rinse and repeat.... bottom line boys and girls - you can't fix stoopid
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On 3/20/2017 at 11:21 AM, George Sawtelle said:
Jim
Oswald(1) = Ruby killed
Oswald (2) = taller heavier set
Philips set up Oswald(1) to take the blame for the death of Kennedy. Everything he did to, for or with Oswald(1) was done to set him up. Veciana thought the meeting with Oswald(1) was brief and casual, but I doubt that it was casual. Philips had a reason for Veciana to see Oswald(1). It could have been that Philips had planned work for Veciana and Oswald(1) and wanted Veciana to meet the man who would be working with him (Veciana). Whatever the reason for the meet Philips continued his charade to set up Oswald(1).
If the Oswald Veciana met is Oswald(2) then it would be out of character for Philips to tip his hand on a second Oswald. I doubt Philips ever met with Oswald(2) in public.
It could be that Oswald was in New Orleans as you say. But it´s also very possible Oswald flew to Dallas at the request of Philips for the ¨casual¨ meet with Veciana. A CIA plane or a loaner from one of the Louisiana oil companies could have taken Oswald(1) to Dallas and then taken him back to Louisiana.
Just a little comment George,
There is no reason to believe "everything" related to Phillips and Oswald was directly connected to the assassination. If any of a number of plans worked we'd be talking about a different patsy so does it make some sense that these activities were simply part of Oswald's job? Sure, the appearance of being with Pro Castro forces paints Oswald a commie but it also gets him into groups and next to people he may not have been able to if that connection was not created for him.
The CIA and FBI's first role is that of information gathering. The fact that these "assets" gathering the data could be used as pawns in other plans is not lost on anyone reading here. We know all along the movements and "stories" of assets and agents can be used against them at any moment, if in the better interest of the company.
References to Oswald being in Mexico City or Cuba earlier in '63 and in '62 was most assuredly Lee and his relationship to Ruby. There were no Oswalds in Mexico City at the end of Sept/early-Oct 1963. If there was an Oswald in Mexico, the evidence of such has surely been compromised - or not yet released. If a photo of our Oswald in MC at that time surfaces, I will of course eat my words.
Phillips' main Oswald-did-it asset was Alvarado. They tried to recruit others who would also corroborate the Cuban consulate story of Alvarado with limited success.
The time between Alvarado's first telling of his story and when it gets officially debunked is amazing as we see the "get-Castro" strategy change to "get-Oswald-alone", and then the request for Alvarado to have something useful to do but not too sensitive for the next few months...
This is the man who basically lied to incriminate Oswald and others in a Castro conspiracy that changed from Sept 17/18 to the 27/28... dovetails into Nagell's story, and is summarily dropped and forgotten, like all the other inconvenient MC evidence...
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28 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:
David,If I understand correctly, what you are showing is a snippet of the October 1962 TEC application in Dallas. And you are saying it was copied from an earlier TEC application in Fort Worth. Is that right?
If so, then the April 1962 date should also be on the Fort Worth TEC application. Do you have a copy of that application?
I guess I didn't really answer... no, I have not seen the Ft Worth records... and it appears they come from a phone call... so I assume it was read off of some record...
She says 23 records, which there are, and he only missed 4... so 4/22 is not exactly what she is saying... reading her testimony we simply do not know the date of the Ft Worth test...
I see it says June 1962, yet nowhere in Cunningham's testimony does she mention June 1962. Do we believe she wrote it?
If we look at her detailed affidavit where she specifically calls out her handwriting on the front and back of the TEC card we get:4. As it appears from the entries in my hand on the reverse side of Cunningham Exhibit No. 4, I recorded the fact that I obtained Oswald's "General Aptitude Test" battery results from the Fort Worth office of the Texas Employment Commission. I concluded after examining the GATB obtained from the Fort Worth office and after interviewing Oswald that because he was in great financial need for immediate employment, that I should classify him for clerical work and I noted on the face of the card the proper clerical code, being 1-X 4.9. I also recorded the fact that on October 11, 1962, Oswald was referred to Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall Printing Company as a photo-print trainee and that Oswald was enthusiastic about the possibility of his being employed. I also recorded the fact that Oswald reported on October 15, 1962, that he had obtained the Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall position and that he was pleased.
"DATE in Ft Worth June 1962" is plain as day... why do you supposed she doesn't mention it?
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Mr. JENNER. Now, would you please interpret that for me? What the tests indicate?
Now, you are interpreting here the tests made by the Fort Worth District office, are you?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And you obtained those results by communicating with the Fort Worth office?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. Either on or prior to October 10, 1962?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Subsequent to 10-10-62.Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. You will see that if I copied correctly, the entries on the face of the application card are those which are circled on the test record, and are the ones that he had potential in those patterns--"Jobs for occupational patterns."
Mr. JENNER. And in which did he have potential and which were indicated as deficiencies or weaknesses, if any?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Of the 23 patterns, then being used by the employment service, there were only three in which he did not meet the minimum requirements.
Mr. JENNER. And those three?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Or 4, 1, 3, 5, and 20.
Mr. JENNER. You have just called off numbers that are encircled on the exhibit "Individual Aptitude Profile"?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir; they are struck off.
Mr. JENNER. And they are stricken off for what reason?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Because the applicant's scores did not meet the minimum standards to qualify for those occupational aptitude patterns.Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. Self-contained, able, perhaps not giving any more information than he was asked for, entirely presentable as far as grooming and appearance was concerned; there was nothing at all that I recall that was argumentative in my contacts with him. The general appearance was of, and what these records indicate to me, was of a young applicant with capability, not any sound or extensive work experience, the longest period of the training and experience was in the Marine Corps----
Mr. JENNER. And a limited education?
Mrs. CUNNINGHAM. A limited education, but he had done something about it before he came to me or he wouldn't have a high school equivalency certificate, if he did have. At least, I had no reason to question that he did not have, after I got the test results from the Fort Worth office. -
On 3/17/2017 at 3:55 PM, Sandy Larsen said:
David,If I understand correctly, what you are showing is a snippet of the October 1962 TEC application in Dallas. And you are saying it was copied from an earlier TEC application in Fort Worth. Is that right?
If so, then the April 1962 date should also be on the Fort Worth TEC application. Do you have a copy of that application?
Hi Sandy....
Cunningham exhibit 2 and 2a... I posted it above with the overlay showing they don't match although they should.
Taking another close look at these docs I am struck by a thought which in turn makes the 4/62 date less likely
Cunningham #2 shows a box with circled numbers on it.. if appears he either got or missed 4/22, there are 4 lines and 18 circles of the 22 numbers if you drop the 0. While at the same time that looks more like a "6" than a 2 when you look at all the other 6's.
And so it goes as one dives deep into this case... but yes, this - to me - is not as concrete a "Lee" reference as I had once thought
Jim H? I'll have to talk to John about it.... wouldn't be the first thing we disagreed about.
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On 3/17/2017 at 12:01 PM, W. Tracy Parnell said:
David,
Fortunately for the H&L people discrepancies exist in the official record of Oswald. Professional investigators (as opposed to amateur speculators) understand this fact. The best evidence (photos against a height chart, exhumation etc.) is LHO was 5'9" tall. Occam's razor says the simplest explanation is likely correct and that is the times that show him at a height we know he was not are incorrect for whatever reason. John Armstrong's razor states exactly the opposite in this case and regarding the theory as a whole-the most complex explanation is the best.
yes Tracy, Harvey was 5'9". And this is the in-depth rebuttal of the TEC and Lorenz?
From PARKER:
First witness cited - Marita Lorenz. I think that's all I need to say on that witness.
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From the records - the Fez reverts to the TEC records showing Oswald took tests at Fort Worth in April '62 - impossible since he never returned until June. This has been discredited already on the Ed Forum. It was a simple clerical error and corrected in those same records.just a simple error... so show us the correction... if you're talking about the mis-matched back of this application with handwriting that matches nothing else on the form which states "DATE in Fort Worth June 1962"
And once again we find two FBI exhibits which are supposed to match, only matching at the top and not matching on the bottom... Who wrote the comment Tracy? and why don't dups of the same exhibit match? you can go ask Parker.. we'll wait.
Moving on now to Curry... This is where you and Parker and I split. You and he will take any blank piece of paper with reference to the FBI as COLD HARD FACT... so if there was another mention of Oswald in New Orleans between Feb and Mar 1963 from this same report, can we take that as another COLD HARD FACT?
SV T-1 observes someone he claims resembles Oswald between Feb 15 and Mar 15 1963...
Where was Oswald living at this time Tracy?
When a witness states "He told me his name was Lee Oswald", and then confirms that the person was the man Ruby killed - eg the man they saw on TV... reliable?
Well look at that... the FBI kicks into SOP mode and begins the process of discrediting the witness...
Mental problems remains a favorite of theirs... if you go to the rest of the report Curry states that this person insisted that he write his name down, Lee Oswald... and of course original documents like trip sheets NEVER get altered in the possession of the FBI... would you like a few examples or are you familiar?
PARKER: Third witness: Sheriff Thompson of Monroe County, Florida. This time the Fez helpfully provides a link to his evidence. But guess what? The document doesn't mention anything about any Sheriff Thompson - what it describes is the effort to get to the bottom of local rumors about Oswald refueling a boat in 61. All the hallmarks of an urban myth here.
I am talking about Sheriff Thompson's statements. TRACY, where in WCD953 as offered by Parker, does it offer the Sheriff's statement?
The footnote for SHERIFF THOMPSON (as opposed to "Resident") is 136 Report of John A. Marshall, Secret Service 2/5/64.
It's not there, so why is Parker using yet a different person's account of HUFFMAN. Who is JAMES STEVENS who is relaying 2nd hand info from his wife who heard a rumor... Again Tracy, what does this response have to do with Sheriff THOMPSON and do you even bother reading the sources you assume provides a rebuttal, or just copy past and hope?
So that's the full extent of the "rebuttal" ??
"It's obvious", "clerical error", and a report having nothing to do with the person giving the info...
Yup, that's Parker...
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footwear? lol
You boys will pull just about anything out of your ....
You and Parker's indictment of the Marine's record keeping is a joke filled excuse that you can't reconcile... whatever.
71" = 5'11" 68" = 5'8"
Oswald enters the Marines at 5'8" 135 lbs and leaves 5'11" 150 lbs.. makes sense as he goes from age 17 to 20...
fast forward 4 years... CE3002, Oswald's autopsy report... and the Rose Autopsy sheet state this is a 5'9" man estimated to weigh 150 (although we both know it was closer to 135).
Explain please, without claiming the Marines took HIS word for all his discharge stats, (they actually measured and weighed the man as everyone who has ever been in the armed forces knows)...
...How does a man lose 2 inches from age 20 to 24? you honestly think the Marines did not weigh and measure them in bare feet and in their skivvies ? or do you think the 5'11" measurement was part of the marked card plans of Angleton 5 years before the fact and he never was that tall?
The second memo went directly to the Mexico City station itself, with a different description of “Lee Henry Oswald” as “5 foot 10, 165 pounds” that matched the Robert Wesbster-like description of Oswald used by Egerter and the FBI for molehunting purposes during Oswald’s days in the Soviet Union. (A CIA note during the seventies confirms that the Agency knew there was confusion in identifying the two men, although I haven't yet found the full memo itself.) -Simpich
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The very last thing I could possibly care about is what you think of anything Paul....
You've been debunked and shown to be foolish by virtually every person on this forum and on virtually every subject.
You offer conclusions without evidence and critique without knowledge... hey, you sure you're not channeling Trump?
Like a few select posters before you... you remain a one trick pony... the trick being falling off in full view.
As I've posted a number of times now, Mexico and H&L, in my work, is not connected. Alice TX and other south TX activities which occurred during the same time period MAY have been related to H&L... but since you can't seem to find time to read the work you criticize, the value of such criticism is obvious.
At the bottom line here boys (tommy and paul) the work of real researchers and the supported conclusions they offer here remains the cornerstone of intelligent thought... the mental masturbation the two of you spew in hopes of being considered "valuable" or being taken seriously remains just that... a few spasms and then a snore-fest.
Case in point - Paul can't even paraphrase Bill's great work accurately...
QuoteIt was not a "new" Mole Hunt. It was the original Mole Hunt of October 1, 1963, in response to the CIA *immediate* recognition that the telephone caller of October 1, 1963 was not really Lee Harvey Oswald, as he claimed when he asked for Kostikov of the KGB.
The fact that this fake middle name, "Henry," was still present after a solid year, suggests to me that the CIA had still not found the Mole by late 1964.
Paul - "HENRY" was never "the original Mole Hunt of October 1, 1963" according to Simpich; it had been used by Angleton via Egerter since 1960 in a variety of "marked card events" according to Bill.. How can Egerter use the HENRY (among other falsehoods) marked card THREE YEARS LATER.
As for painting me into the Armstrong corner - you know full well I support the H&L conclusion based on the evidence... yet this is now a few posts in a row you keep bringing it up and no one on this thread is discussing it but you and tommy... mental masturbation at its finest.
You've made enough errors in your posts about Mexico Paul, the last thing you need do is add your lack of knowledge about H&L here... there are other threads for that... or can't you get your mind out of Armstrong's business
Here are some excerpts from State Secret... If I'm wrong about what Bill is saying: that the the marked cards of Lee HENRY Oswald was used well before Oct 1 1963 and were related to Webster:
Bill writes:
DIR 74830 to Mexico City Station (excerpts).
This memo passes on the false Robert
Webster-like description of Oswald, along
with orders to disseminate this description to the
Headquarters of the same agencies referenced
in the previous memo.The second memo went directly to the Mexico City station itself, with a different description of “Lee Henry Oswald” as “5 foot 10, 165 pounds” that matched the Robert Wesbster-like description of Oswald used by Egerter and the FBI for molehunting purposes during Oswald’s days in the Soviet Union. (A CIA note during the seventies confirms that the Agency knew there was confusion in identifying the two men, although I haven't yet found the full memo itself.) -Simpich
See PAUL... the way you butcher the intent and content of Bill's work is criminal.
Or go ahead and post the passage from his work that supports your statement about Oct 1.
From State Secret:
Although the downing of the U-2 ended Oswald’s usefulness as a dangle, Egerter and other officers in the counterintelligence division of the CIA continued to use the Oswald case file as a marked card to look for leaks in the US security apparatus.
A second marked card was Marguerite Oswald’s inaccurate claim that Oswald was an ex-Marine with an honorable discharge who had renounced his citizenship.
During December 1960, Egerter finally opened a 201 file for Oswald when the Office of Security put together a list of defectors and it noticed that Oswald had no biographical file.
Egerter named him “Lee Henry Oswald”, and supplied the head of covert operations with a separate Lee Henry Oswald index card with the note “CIT?”, asking whether Oswald was a citizen. Egerter knew Oswald’s real name and was staying on top of his story, as shown by a late 1960 note signed by Egerter after reviewing the Soviet division’s latest memo on Oswald’s background. Oswald’s 201 file could now be used to keep track of Oswald’s alleged biography.
As mentioned earlier, the covert operations desk had a separate Lee Harvey Oswald index card that was based on Fain’s interviews with the Oswald family. This card states flatly and falsely that Oswald was now a Soviet citizen! In the limited but important world of CIA record-keeping, there were now two different Oswalds by the end of 1960.
This phony description of Oswald as “5 foot 10, 165” came back into play three years later. In Mexico City, Oswald tried again to get an instant visa – this time, to visit Cuba and the Soviet Union. On October 10, 1963, Egerter was the co-author of two memos describing a man known as “Lee Henry Oswald” – the name that Egerter had used for him back during his time in the Soviet Union.
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"He could be convinced" he was wrong though.. with scientific evidence.
Do you believe him or not Tommy?
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Quote
After all, as you insinuated, I'm not an honest investigator.
QuoteI mean, was she ever shown the existing Visa Application As We Know It and asked whether or not she recognized it? Now you're thinking like an honest investigator... so no, of course they didn't show it to her.
"they didn't show it to her"... inferring that THEY are not honest investigators.
That when you asked an honest, thoughtful, logical question about what occurred, I contrasted your question against those dishonest few who did the investigation.
Paranoia will destroy ya....
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13 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:
So, you hold the Whole Agency accountable for the Crime of the 21st Century. Sounds like the perfectly sane, non-paranoiac thing to do. LOL
Yet another post illustrating your complete confusion and woeful lack of wit... {sigh}
The "CIA" cannot DO anything... people within the CIA DO things.
It was only a page or so ago that I mentioned Jane Roman and C BUSTOS who worked under Angleton at Langley and were the ones who crafted the 10/10 reply back to MX opening the "HENRY" can of worms from 1960 ALSO from Angleton's office..
That you post Hoover meant the entire CIA just shows either how little you comprehend, or that your just an XXXXX with nothing really to say
Readers can decide for themselves...
QuoteAfter all, as you insinuated, I'm not an honest investigator
Ah, the other shoe drops....
You're not an investigator, period. where did I say you were not "honest"?
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Quote
Question:
Did Duran ever say anything about the "Oswald" visa application photos she that she did deal with on 9/27/63? Tommy, there are reports on Duran, CE's, WCD's and her testimony... READ something first... If you read Simpich's work, which you claim to, there are greats references and links to sources... why are you so lazy here? Like, ... what she did with the ones of the "short, blond" dude (probably short, blond, thin-faced KGB officer Nikolai Leonov, who later claimed that he had met with Oswald at the Mexico City Soviet Embassy on SUNDAY, October 29, sans Kostikov) who claimed to be Oswald? Or had Leonov given her those photos of LHO to put on the application??? The answer to this is in this thread... in fact, I'm the one who posted it.
Naw, she wouldn't admit that even if it were true, would she. Silly me.
Or ... like .... whether or not she attached them to the application, herself?
I mean, stuff like that?
I mean, was she ever shown the existing Visa Application As We Know It and asked whether or not she recognized it? Now you're thinking like an honest investigator... so no, of course they didn't show it to her... but it was in the WCR H&E's.
They didn't show Mumford Oswald's photo either... but then you would know that if you read the work.Tommy...
why don't you look this stuff up yourself ??
Are you truly unaware of the resources available?
QuoteThanks, david!
You're welcome Tommy... when does the other shoe drop?
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Quote
If so, why is that so important to you? To prove that there really was a conspiracy to kill JFK? LOL. Hasn't that already been pretty well established? You know, "at least four shots in 6.5 seconds," etc?
Or in-so doing, are also trying to somehow "prove" that Armstrong's Henry and Harvey and Lee and the Two Marguerites theory really really really is true
Isn't this thread about Mexico City?
Since I don't think any Oswald was on any bus related to MC, you'll need to pick an argument with Jim H or JA related to the mountain of evidence which you cannot seem to comprehend. There is even a thread in process at this very moment!
As you say tommy... we already know there was a conspiracy to kill JFK... the Mexico trip only has to do with the assassination in that it fulfilled Phase 1 - "Paint Oswald a paid to kill JFK, Castro loving commie" (Alvarado), it created a real problem for Hoover since one of his assets, LHO, was doing his job at the time, and finally it created a 800 lb gorilla in front of the effort to investigate and expose any conspiracies. Even the hint of Cuban related activity in MC was enough to insure LBJ would stay away and be concerned with Russia backing Cuba if he did anything about it.
Your obsession with H&L borders on illness... and in case you haven't heard, the CIA was basically the military's doberman, guarding the gate and being blamed for all the black ops the military continued. The CIA was not in a position to tell Admiral Galloway or 4 star general LeMay anything. Without Bethesda (or Walter Reed if that was the case) the conspiracy falls apart. Without Military gag orders under punishment of court-martial, the conspiracy falls apart.
If Rose does the autopsy the whole thing is blown. The CIA and SS were VERY close with each other... the CIA in fact was everywhere by this time... to continue to attribute this to "rogue CIA" and not see the bigger picture just shows your inability to dive deeper. The US military was and still is the preeminent force on this planet.
I'm so sorry I wrote too many words for you to follow along... the ongoing, unsolicited compliments I get from these articles is more than enough for me to keep laughing at your silly little pettiness.
As the song says... You ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know
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37 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:
Dear Paul,
I'm just trying to get my head around this myself, and at the same time I'm trying to figure out what you believe regarding this October, 1963, "Lee Henry Oswald" document.
What do you think the origin of the middle name "Henry" in this document was? Just an honest, October, 1963, "typo"? Or a brand new, intentional, October, 1963, "marked card" for a new , Mexico City-based, mole hunt?
By the way, I've been to busy to look into it but as regards the two basic "paths" or "groups" for the the document(s) at issue that David Josephs spelled out --
"You will find the FBI & IN&S [sic] are in one place while CIA and STATE are on another path - the one claiming the Castro connection."
I gotta ask: Why did FBI agent James Hosty have to get it from Jeff Woolsey (sic) at I&NS? Why didn't he get it from his own organization, the FBI?
-- Tommy
PS It's interesting to note that our very own Ron Ecker pointed out some time ago that on October 22, 1963 (exactly one month before the assassination, fwiw), FBI Headquarters in Washington, D.C., "corrected" Mexico City Legat on the middle name.
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/fbi/105-3702/124-10230-10419/html/124-10230-10419_0002a.htm
BTW, it's interesting to speculate as to what the other "background [information] being furnished" by mail from FBI Headquarters. to Mexico City Legat (FBI office in M.C.) was.
Also interesting to note that this cable to Mexico City Legat says that CIA had furnished FBI with the same ("Henry"?) information as Mexico City Legat had cabled to FBI Headquarters back on October 1, 1963.
WOOSLEY Tommy... Not Jeff Woolsey (sic) and Hosty gets it from I&NS since the 10/10 cable goes to FBI HQ, why would HQ relay this to Hosty in Dallas? Besides, if you continue reading that 10/22 documnet you see they also get info on OSWALD from a USPS informant... Jeff and "Dorothy" keep FBI agents informed when certain items of interest cross their desk...
You truly know zilch about this stuff Tommy... it's a riot seeing the two of you banter about things for which you have so little knowledge nor the desire to acquire it...
Jane Roman and C BUSTOS are the ones who sent the cable from HQ to MX stating the person may be identical top LEE HENRY OSWALD. As I posted at the link below, the documents do not change to HARVEY until 10/22. All due respect to Ron...
Something that may help clarify the events... when CIA HQ sends another request to the NAVY on 10/24... they refer to HENRY in what might be a continuation of the delay tactics
Did I mention the FBI also looked for Oswald in MC... All month long with over 20 contacts and the Gobernacion where the FBI had a highly placed asset?
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1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:
Jim,
There are cases of mistaken identities, and then there are cases where the person (such as LHO) identifies himself. The former case happens all the time. The latter doesn't and certainly carries a lot more weight. If a person says that Oswald identified himself, then that person is an eyewitness and should be given the same level of trust as any other eyewitness.
I am interested in hearing about those situations. But, of course, the documented cases will naturally be more convincing.
You know Sandy, it's interesting you should say that: "cases where the person identifies himself". In most cases where there are conflicts showing Oswald being here and there at the same time... many of these examples occur when Oswald is in Russia so the witnesses dates and even years are called into question since he couldn't possibly be in Russia and the US at the same time - unless someone was playing the Oswald part here...
Here are a few conflicts from the Russia time period.
Anna Lewis' video telling of meeting Oswald between Jan-Apr 1962, with Judy Baker in the room, and with multiple camera stops and no correction is the tip of the iceberg. Any one instance alone may be a coincidence but when more and more tell a story of meeting LEE HARVEY OSWALD in the US while he's in Russia we might take notice. Or maybe long time friends of LEE's mother seeing her in New Orleans while Marge is in Texas...
Another question to ask yourself is whether you believe Marita Lorenz's story... according to her "OSWALD" was in a safehouse in Miami in Sept 1960.
1961 3 17 Harvey meets Marina 1961 3 24 Hospital records show that Harvey "Alik" Oswald was admitted to the Fourth Clinical Hospital in Minsk at 10:00 am on T hursday, March 30, 1961. From this date we learn that Oswald and Marina probably met the previous Friday, March 24, at the Palace of Trade Unions (instead of March 4th or 17th as claimed by Marina)
1961 3 25 Priscilla Johnson wrote in her book, "Marina and Lee," that Oswald and Marina met on March 17, 1961 and a few days later, on March 25, she received a call to visit him at the hospital because he was sick. But Marina could not have received such a call from Oswald on March 25, because he has not admitted to the hospital until March 30.
1961 4 10 NOTE: The date of their meeting and the phone call from Oswald in the hospital may seem trivial, except when one realizes that two weeks later (April 30), without every having a single date or being alone together, these two cold-war spies agreed to marry.
Mr. Fithian. This was prior to the Bay of Pigs.
Mrs. Lorenz. Yes.
Mr. Fithian. It was?
Mrs. Lorenz. April 1961 was the Bay of Pigs.
Mr. Fithian. And you are sure you saw him (LEE) before April 1961?
Mrs. Lorenz. Yes, because Alex (Rorke) took the pictures.Mr. Fithian. "All right. Now I want to be sure that I have your dates correct. You said the first meeting of Lee Harvey Oswald, the first time you saw him, was at a Safehouse in Miami in 1960.
Marita Lorenz. "Yes."-----
While Harvey Oswald was still living in Minsk with his wife and daughter, Lee
Oswald apparently applied for work at the Texas Employment Commission in Fort Worth and was given a series of General Aptitude Test Batteries (GATB tests). NOTE: In October 1962 counselors at the TEC office in Dallas reviewed Lee Oswald's file from Fort Worth and wrote his GATB test scores from April 1962 under the heading "Test Results (Volume XIX, p. 399)." 62-03
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Lynn Davis Curry lived in Augusta, Georgia and drove a cab for the Dixie Cab
Company in the early 1960's. During the month of November 1962 Curry picked up a white male at the intersection of 8th Street and Broad who was about twenty five years old and wearing a black jacket. T he young man introduced himself as "Lee Oswald" and then began to talk about himself. Oswald told Curry that he served in the Marine Corps, traveled to Russia, married a Russian girl, supported Fidel Castro , and was traveling to New Orleans. Curry let the man off at the corner of 5th and Watkins Street where his car was parked. Before leaving the cab the young man insisted that Curry write down his name, "Lee Oswald," and said that Curry would be hearing his name again in the future. Curry wrote the name "Lee Oswald" on his daily trip sheet and remembered his name on November 22, 1963.------
Sheriff Thompson, of Monroe County (Key West), Florida, recalled that "Lee Harvey Oswald" fueled up his boat in Key West shortly after the Bay of Pigs (April '61, They return to USA in June 1962 ). Oswald didn't have the funds to pay for the fuel and telephoned someone in Dallas, Texas. Within two hours a man named "Ruben" arrived and paid for the fuel.136 William Huffman was the attendant on duty when Lee Oswald, accompanied by 4 or 5 Cubans, docked at the Sands Marine Fueling Station at Stock Island, Key West, Florida in a 43-foot Chris Craft diesel boat.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11349&relPageId=2
The real Marguerite Oswald, the tall, nice-looking mother of John, Robert and Lee Harvey, had been living in New Orleans for the past year where she was employed in her usual occupation of selling clothes. Mrs. Logan Magruder, a resident of Covington, Louisiana who had known her since the 1940's, saw Marguerite working in the ladies lingerie department at Krieger's Department Store and spoke with her. 53 Mrs. Oris Duane, who had known Marguerite Oswald since the 1940's, told the FBI that Marguerite Oswald visited her at Lady Oris Hosiery in 1960. Mrs. Oswald told her that she was working for Goldrings's Department Store on Canal Street selling dresses on the second floor." 54
MO Moves again On September 1, (1960) the short, dumpy, heavy-set "Marguerite Oswald" impostor moved from 1407 8th Avenue in Fort Worth to Boyd, Texas, a small community 35 miles northwest of Fort Worth. This was the community in which Robert Oswald's wife previously lived and in which her parents owned a farm. "Marguerite" opened an account with the Continental State Bank on September 22nd and began operating a small variety shop on Main Street where she sold thread and fabrics throughout the remainder of 1960.
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=275&tab=page
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And Westbrook should have been talking to Tippit's widow asap - he was in charge of personnel! and yet she learns about it from the news...
WESTBROOK is without a doubt one of the key figures in Dallas helping to incriminate Oswald...
My article on the pistol and the fact there were two different chains of custody described, involves Westbrook up to his neck.
Reminds me of another patrolman with his own thoughts, as well as disobeying a direct order from the Chief of Police...
Mr. BAKER - I heard Chief Curry, the chief of the police over there, say, "Get some men over on the railroad track." I think everyone at that time thought these shots came from the railroad track.
Mr. BELIN - By "everyone" do you include you, too?
Mr. BAKER - No, Sir. I had it-- I was in a better position due to the wind and you know under it, that I knew it was directly ahead, and up, and it either had to be this building here or this one over here.
Mr. BELIN - You are pointing to either the first building, you are pointing to the School Book Depository Building, and the second one you are pointing to is the one across the street. When you heard this announcement on your radio was it while you were parking your motorcycle?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir."No Sir, I had..." what?
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13 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:
David has raised these questions either in a direct or indirect way. To me, they go to the heart of the matter. In ways that "barium meals" do not. IMO, he deserves a lot of credit for that.
Thanks Jim...
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On 3/16/2017 at 0:07 AM, Thomas Graves said:
David,
What is your theory as to the provenance of Oswald's Cuban visa application, above?
Was it found to be in the possession of the Cuban Consulate after the assassination?
If so, do you think an Oswald impersonator walked into Sylvia Duran's office with those photos of the real Oswald (the one who was killed by Jack Ruby) and Duran didn't notice that the photos were of someone other than the man who was standing there before her, claiming to be the person in the photographs?
(It is a perplexing question because, if memory serves, Duran claimed that the guy who said he was Oswald was blond. and dressed "unelegantly".)
Or do you think the CIA (or the Mexican DNS) manufactured that Cuban visa application after the assassination?
-- Tommy
PS Was it ever determined where in Mexico City those photographs might have been taken? Within walking distance of the Cuban Consulate, by any chance?
Both Duran and Azcue claim the man in Dallas was not the man in their office.
The FBI asset at Gobernacion secured this form for the FBI... the FBI search for a photo shop who could even take these photos comes up negative...
And despite the commotion made by this man, a simple thing like where to get photos for an application is forgotten? How many places could there have been?
CORNWELL - So, from all the circumstances, did it appear to your that he just went somewhere locally and had the pictures made?
TIRADO - Yeah. I think that I already explained (to) him where he could take the photographs.
CORNWELL - You told him some locations in town where ge could go? Were there some right in the neighborhood of the Consulate there?
TIRADO - That I don't remember.http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/pdf/WH25_CE_2449.pdf details the investigation into where the photos were taken.. the WCR states that he had photos which he may have brought from the USA... (because they could not find a photo shop in MC which had record or memory of Oswald).
Tirado also states that SHE fills out the application....
TIRADO - I filled out application.
CORNWELL - You personally typed it, and did you type it in duplicate or triplicate or just one copy?
TIRADO - Duplicate.
CORNWELL - And was the second copy a carbon?
TIRADO - Carbon?
CORNWELL - Did you have it twice or did you type one and make two copies?
TIRADO - Only one.
CORNWELL - And made two?
TIRADO - Yes.-----
CORNWELL - Then what did you do with the application?
TIRADO - Well, I used to put it in a file, and uh, I used to keep one copy, another to send, the original, we used to send to Cuba. And I think I have another file.
(DJ - but there were only 2 copies?)
CORNWELL - Was he required to sign the application?
TIRADO - He sighned it, yes.
CORNWELL - Did he sign one or both of them?
TIRADO - I think both, it has to be.
CORNWELL - Was there any requirement in the Consulate that he do it in any particular person's presence? Anyone have to watch him while he signed it?
TIRADO - I don't know, I mean I just don't remember.
CORNWELL - As a hypothetical, did Azcue have to watch people sign the applications?
TIRADO - No. He was in his office.
CORNWELL - So you could handle that all by yourself.
TIRADO - yes.
CORNWELL - Did he sign it in your presence?
TIRADO - Yes.So we are asked to accept that the 2 different Oswald signatures comes from the same man seconds apart. The evidence is actually a photograph of the original and a photo of the carbon copy. Except the carbon and the original do not match.. if you line up the top, the bottom and middle don't match, align the bottom and the top and middle don't align... If you have any Photoshop skills you could see for yourself.
The Chain of Custody of the original leads from Duran to the Cuban Ministry:
…at any rate, she (DURAN) initiated the handling of his visa application by sending it to the Cuban Ministry of (Foreign) affairs. p40 of CE2121
Do you know how and when the WC gets a copy of the original from Cuba? or where the original is today?
One would think the Cubans keep their originals and send copies... originals in the hands of the FBI/WC lawyers seem to disappear...
My question to you Tommy - do we know enough about the Chain of Custody (it did not get to Rankin until the end of August 1964) to know whether the photos shown on the copies are the same as what was on the original? And why, if he has to wign both copies does she not stamp both copies...?
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It was me who accidentally replaced Jeff with James, your obsession over H&L appears to have made you ill Tommy... take a breath.
The work on Mexico has nothing to do with Harvey and Lee... I refer to the book for further study where I do mention it and state that some believe it was LEE on these buses
At 6 parts and about 300 pages, more than half of which are images since they are the point of the work, I'm sure it needs work...
The first significantly long research paper I've written...
It started in one spot and grew... editing and updating is on the calendar for some day... doesn't change the fact I spent a year combing thru thousands of documents
and can make spelling mistakes with the best of them.at least I posted the excerpt. Here's the Doc... WOOSLEY was correct, Who's SAC, DALLAS Paul? and yes, FBI agents did have informants and contacts in other areas of government... kinda obvious.
Here are just some of the available docs that I put in chrono order cross-checked against available indices of produced docs by organization.
Anyway, for those not looking to fight, I compiled and presented my case for an FBI snow storm orchestrated to cover for Oswald in Dallas via Odio when the CIA claimed he was in Mexico. Philips & Goodpasture at it's core.
Stating that "HENRY" initiated in Mexico when we all know it was from the 201 file back in 1960
you think Mexico '63 is related to opening this 201 file ?On 3/15/2017 at 6:31 PM, Thomas Graves said:Another part of that Mole Hunt was to change Oswald's middle name to "Henry."
Simply not true
Paul...TommyAs to HENRY in that letter... that's what's in para 1 of the 10/10 cable #74830 HENRY comes from CIA HQ.. C BUSTOS
Is a page from Matrix for Assassination stating that Jane Roman was involved with this memo drafted by C Bustos aka Elsie Scaletti, Mexico Desk at HQ.
From what I could find there is no mention of Harvey until 10/22.There was no reason to call him anything else...
Up to 10/15 and thru 10/16 when Scott tells Mann about LEE HENRY... the name HARVEY had not yet been mentioned.
Chrono;
Lee Henry Oswald
(New"P") P-7573It's not until 10/22 that HENRY is realized as HARVEY
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On 3/15/2017 at 4:04 PM, Paul Trejo said:
George,
There's no choir here, as my CT is in the minority. Most readers here hold a CIA-did-it CT.
David Morales, the alleged Mole, had flunkies under him. Whoever supplied FBI agent James Hosty with the October 18, 1963 memo linking Lee HENRY Oswald to KGB assassin Kostikov is a major suspect in my opinion.
Regards
--Paul Trejo
Hosty got it from his IN&S contact JAMES WOOSLEY, Paul... If you took the time to read the work with the same attention to detail as you read Simpich, you may find out a few things that can help you come to supported conclusions...
Rather than wildly guessing and making accusation based in nonsense.
You will find the FBI & IN&S are in one place while CIA and STATE are on another path - the one claiming the Castro connection.
Bill Simpich was amazingly helpful to me in pursuit of these docs with fewer and fewer redactions. the I&NS cc is blacked out in most copies.
This letter is also the impetus for KOSTIKOV... Win Scott takes what was said on one of the transcripts and concludes it was KOSTIKOV without proof or follow-up. I believe It was learned he was not there at all that weekend.
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Quote
So if you balance that against what you have on the negative side, IMO, the weight of the evidence seems to indicate he was not there, and its not really close.
ok... well, that's 2 of us!
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He didn't pay for his ticket... C'mon now Steve...
That and he was supposed to be in the Balcony...
Johnny and Butch went into the theater a few times and still did not spot him... hmmm.
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Mr. HILL. No, sir; not as a distinguishable specific "This is it," no. As much confusion and all going on, I didn't distinguish that. Now if we can back up a little bit to where we made the, got him handcuffed in the theatre, before we started moving out with him, he started, Oswald or the suspect at this point, we didn't know who he was, so we will keep on calling him the suspect,
"... we made the..., got him handcuffed" (edit: forgot to mention this sounds like he stops short of using the "arrest" word for some reason)
Interesting question Steve,
Do the police need to arrest a suspect to take them in? Seems to me not... depending on which sentence you read:
I guess the "arrest" does not become official until the attached arrest report is filed?
Does that look like the man that you arrested in the Texas Theatre that day?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir.Senator COOPER -Then, if he was the man identified to you, why did you stop and search these two men before you got to the man you later arrested?
Mr. McDONALD - Well, I wanted to make sure he was right.
Senator COOPER -Was it your purpose to search everybody in there?
Mr. McDONALD - It was my intention everybody I came to.
Senator COOPER -Were these the first two that you did search?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir; they were the closest ones to me.
Senator COOPER -They were sitting in front of the man you later arrested?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir; they were sitting about 10 rows in front of him.
Senator COOPER -At the time you were searching them, you could see the other man that you later arrested?"Arrested the defendant"
MC Mystery Man not a mystery
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by David Josephs
Not at all Tommy... LEON is definitely in #6 & 7, as are 2 URM.. sorry if I misspoke.
What I'm saying is that #1 & #2 , the only photos designated as Oct 1 are very hard to make out and have nothing to do with the OSWALD charade going on. And finally, the image from Sept 26 of the "man sent to consulate" (unidentified?) is simply everyone they could find in the photos who appeared American, or non-Mexican.
Here is the START of the entire thing - Goodpasture and the LADILLINGER (Soviet Desk Barbara Manell) and how the two different descriptions of Oswald are first created (Cable #74673 sent to NAVY, STATE & FBI: "35y/o, Athletic build, about 6' receding hair" & #74830 sent to Mexico City: "5'10" 165 lb, Light Brown Hair & Blue Eyes")
Edit: For got I attached this... Sept 27 log. "Man sent to Consulate" is the same text as the 9/26 photos
These are 2 different rolls of film so I assume they are from 2 different places and programs?