William Plumlee

This first image below taken moments after the shooting shows the collection of people gathered above where the limo passed under only seconds before.

The second image shows a collection of spectators (and one police officer) who ran up the knoll and gathered at the fence. It does make one wonder.

FWIW.

James

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When it is said that a shooter on the south knoll would be seen, then how could a shooter at the picket fence not been seen? You had people on the overpass, not more that twenty-five yards and you had people in front of the north knoll shooter, and others a few feet to the right of the shooter (if your facing west) Some of these people were no more than ten feet from the picket fence and the shooter standing in front of him. That would be the worst place for a sniper, because he had put himself between people looking basicly toward his direction, (the overpass) even if he was behind a fence, it would be risky. If we say this was a really planned tight execution that has not been figured out in all these years and so much trouble went into the cover up.., then why was a shooter put there... stupid I say. When you go to the Plaza try this. Go down to the south side of the rail road tracks and yell as loud as you can in the direction of the kill zone.., and watch the people in the plaza first look toward the the north side of the rail road tracks, then toward you. I think you will find that interesting. But I am no expert.

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I'm sure Gary Mack will correct me if I am wrong but the photo would have been snapped post 1966. The Hertz sign as Tosh suggested is still there on Elm. It is advertising Ford where in 1963 it was Chevrolet. Also there are overhead signs on Elm (near the corner of Houston) which were put in place in 1966.

James

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Thanks James: I apreciate the information and dates...

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Tim, Tosh, or James Richards,

Does anyone have a date stating as to when this picture was taken?

Thanks,

Terry

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Terry: Not sure this will help. I think it will show it was taken a few years after the assassination and before the Hertz sign was removed form the Trexas School Dep... Compare the south knoll picture taken seconds after the assassination and look at the "tree shadows" of the small trees that lined the south parking lot. notice where the shadows of the lager trees fall on the knoll and at the egge of the street. The small trees are much larger and the larger trees are much taller in the ovetrhead. The south knoll picture was taken at the time of the shooting. The overhead was also taken around noon, but not that day; because the shadows are poniting the same direction as the south photo of 63. The shadows are much larger in the overhead.. I would harzard to guess the overhead was taken about four or fives years later than 1963. (1968) However, this is only a guess. Tosh

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Tim draw a line starting from the middle of the RR tracks to the kill zone, starting at the right edge of the underpass and the tree. What do you have? Where was the President in this line of fire? What does it look like west of that area across the RR tracks. Remember this is a later photo and some of the tracks have been removed. ... Tosh

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Thanks Tim: I apreciate that. I am not sure if some of the tracks were removed it the time of this photo or not.. also keep in mind that the tracks are above the south parking lot... you can walk along the tracks for (south) about thirty yards before the kill zone can no longer be seen. Any further that this would put Jackie in the line of fire and would be a low shot across the tracks.

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Tim draw a line starting from the middle of the RR tracks to the kill zone, starting at the right edge of the underpass and the tree. What do you have? Where was the President in this line of fire? What does it look like west of that area across the RR tracks. Remember this is a later photo and some of the tracks have been removed. ... Tosh

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I have said that nobody was on the bridge at the time the President came into the zone. I do remember that there were people above the President on the north side on the underpass, on the bridge, about six or seven as the Limo passed under. I remember Sergio and I questioned that.

"... there were people above the president on the bridge after he had been shot...". (de-briefing West Palm Beach Florida to Rex Beardsley and Bob Bennette and Tracy Barns, report of debriefing transmitted to field HQ, Miami to Bill Harvery, JMWAVE HQ., November 25, 1963) Miami Desk Miami Florida)

The FBI told me in Denver at a latter datem ( Feb 1964) that I was wrong. They said.

"That area above the bridge had been cleared of people before the President came into the Plaza. Nobody was on the bridge. That area had been cleared by the Secret Service before the President got to the Plaza. Why do you insist on incerting yourself into this? You know giving false (FAG) information to a Federal officer can keep you in this jail for a very long time?" (ref; Scott Warner, SAC interview at Denver County Jail Feb. 1964)

"FAG" charge. "False Information to Government officials".

However, I do know that the South side of the underpass was cleared and nobody was there. The north side is another matter. I have questioned over the years photos of this area and of the people on the underpass. One set of prints shows nobody there... another set before the limo came into the zone shows people on the bridge and another six seconds after the fatal shot does not show anyone on the south side or above the President as he and the Limo crossed under. I remember a man leaning over the back of the Limo and notice that people were on the bridge above the limo as it past under. That was just before we reached the man in the pickup truck. Sergio and I were in shock for a few seconds before we started walking away toward the underpass. Most of the people on the north side of the "Tripple Underpass" crossed over the bridge and watched the Limo head for Parkland.

note: It has been said that a south knoll shot would put Jackie and the Texas Gov. in the path and a shot could not have come from the south side of the Plaza. I might point out the slight curve to the southwest at the point of impact about four or five degrees just before it makes a more of a turn, about ten or twenty degrees) before reaching the underpass. If you draw a line and the Limo is even with Main, then the line would rule out a south shot, but turn the limo five degrees to the left (south) and what do you have? A second or two and.., "An open window for a clean shot"...: Check it out. Thank you Tosh.

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http://granmai.co.cu/ingles/2004/octubre/juev7/41complo.html

1963, EL COMPLOT, BY FABIAN ESCALANTE

Kennedy and Fidel, targets of the

same conspiracy

BY JEAN-GUY ALLARD —Special for Granma International—

“ASSASINATING a president is a very complex operation: it’s not just about a lone individual smoking marihuana who takes it upon himself to shoot using a self-loading World War II rifle.” In 1963: El Complot (1963: The Conspiracy), Fabian Escalante Font, head of and combatant in Cuban State Security for more than 30 years, presents the Cuban view of a conspiracy that not only involved the assassination of U.S. President John Kennedy but also a plan to assassinate Cuban President Fidel Castro.

Escalante’s fascinating 250-page historical analysis was recently launched on the international market by Ocean Press publishers (www.oceanbooks.com.au) in the course of a press conference with the author in Havana.

“We are not linking the assassination attempt on Fidel with Kennedy’s assassination. They made that link,” explains the retired general, referring to the work of the committee set up to investigate a large number of CIA plots to assassinate foreign political leaders headed by Senator Frank Church, who visited Havana in 1978.

“This is not my initiative or one taken by Cuban State Security or the national government. This link between Kennedy’s assassination and CIA’s Cuban-American mechanism and the mafia was posed by the U.S. authorities. What we followed was the thread that they gave us.”

THIS CONSPIRACY HAD OFFICIAL BACKING

Fabián Escalante is very clear on the Dallas crime: “This is a conspiracy that had to have had official backing¼I have no doubt about that!”

“I think I demonstrate how the whole operation was organized and how it was essential to blame Lee Harvey Oswald¼because Oswald was supposed to come to Havana. By a sheer miracle, by chance, he didn’t, having done his utmost to travel here. Imagine if at the end of September, the beginning of October – the time he wanted to travel –Lee Harvey Oswald had been in Havana for even one day, just one day!”

On the other hand, the author states that all the investigations into the Kennedy assassination have confirmed that four shots were fired “and also, from different angles”, which leads to the inevitable question: After Kennedy was killed, why have 100-plus people with some connection with this crime also died?

“We decided to investigate the issue in the 1990s,” indicated the general who, after retiring from the State Security executive in 1993, made a proposal to the Ministry of the Interior to create a study center linked to the organization, which is closely connected to the Cuban Revolution’s many victories in confronting U.S. destabilization plans.

“We came across various reports of persons that intended to place a group of Cubans in Dallas on November 18, 1963, including Pedro Luis Díaz Lanz, the Novo Sampol brothers, Luis Posada Carriles, Orlando Bosch, Virgilio Paz, Antonio Veciana and others.”

Antonio Veciana’s organization was already in place in Dallas before Kennedy’s assassination, Fabián Escalante noted: “That was perfectly demonstrated. In other words, Antonio Veciana’s group was organizing in an unusual way in Dallas and his office was located in a house that, according to the Dallas sheriff – this isn’t what I’m saying, it’s what he said – Lee Harvey Oswald was seen entering¼How strange! What a coincidence!”

At that time, Dallas was a gunrunning center for the Italian mafia who purchased weapons from the U.S. Army and resold them to Cuban groups. “And Dallas, together with New Orleans and Miami, were the cities that made up the axis of all the trafficking of weapons and illegal explosives.”

JMWAVE: “MORE CRIMINALS THAN THE EMBASSY

IN BAGHDAD”

For Fabián Escalante, 1963 was the year when the Cuban-American mafia was consolidated and took on a life of its own: “Up until then, the Cuban-American exile movement served as a pool of players for the CIA’s plans; they were the CIA’s soldiers of fortune.”

But when in 1962, JM/WAVE, Miami’s large operative base was organized, counterrevolutionary activity moved onto a new stage.

The CIA station in Miami was enormous: “It had more criminals than the current U.S. embassy in Baghdad, rumored to have 1,000 officials. JM/WAVE had 4,000 salaried Cubans and 400 U.S. staff. 4,400 people!”

This large base, exclusively established to attack Cuba, logically had many needs: “It began to organize companies that were fronts¼Because they needed a shipyard to repair the boats coming here to attack the island. They needed an airline company for their aircraft. They needed to buy weapons, they needed banks, and real estate¼And they began to place counterrevolutionary Cubans in them.”

And these individuals noticed that the war could serve two ends, the general underlined. “To launch a war against us¼and to make millions of dollars for themselves! And in that year of 1962, they started to make fortunes that were already consolidated by 1963.”

From that moment on, the Miami mafia began to realize its own strength: “We make and break presidents,” the Miami capos reiterated.

“It’s clear what the Miami mafia is all about. They removed a president because they killed Kennedy and they’ve imposed a president because they put Bush where he is today.”

“AND THEY SAY IT LIKE THAT, SO CALMLY”

From January through August 1962 Cuba experienced some 5,870 acts of sabotage and terrorism, assassination attempts and assassinations, Escalante recalled.

“And that’s how it’s talked about, so calmly¼it doesn’t make the blood of any of these people boil. It’s shameful.”

Many people have asked how Kennedy would have handled relations with Cuba if he had not been shot in Dallas. “He would have probably wanted peaceful coexistence with Cuba,” said the author of 1963: El Complot.

But he hinted: “Not for positive ends but because he already knew that in this country, force would achieve absolutely nothing. They had already tried military aggression, the largest undercover operation that the United States had embarked on up to that point.

PORTER GOSS, FORMER OPERATIVE AND NEW CIA CHIEF

With respect to the Bush administration’s recent appointment of Congressman Porter Goss of Florida – an former operative of the organization during the 1960s who took part in JM/WAVE’s anti-Cuba activities – as the new head of the CIA, the general questioned the intentions of such an individual.

He thought that this decision could have been taken with a view to “strengthening operative unity, giving prevalence to active units, special commandos, recruiting agents, penetration, sabotage, terrorism¼”

“It’s an age-old practice of U.S. intelligence,” he stated.

Escalante then recalled how at the end of 1974, terrorists Orlando Bosch and Virgilio Paz even went as far as bartering with the Pinochet dictatorship in exchange for recognition of their counterrevolutionary organization: “We’ll kill whoever has to be killed and we’ll plant a bomb wherever we have to put one,” and they planted the bomb on the Cubana passenger plane, they blew up Letelier¼They murdered left and right.”

Who could deny that this is a terrorist mafia?” concluded Escalante.

1963: El Complot by Fabián Escalante is available on www.amazon.com

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I think I have cover this years ago about the Dallas Cubans and the "Safe House" in Oak Cliff, and Lee's connections. There is a picture of Veciana and me in his office in Miami 1991 and some of these things about Dallas we talked about, But Toney was very reluctant to talk about any of the details... Ask Jum Marrs, because he was with me in Miami when these meetings with Narzaro Sargen and Veciana took place.

....from the post above...

..."“We came across various reports of persons that intended to place a group of Cubans in Dallas on November 18, 1963, including Pedro Luis Díaz Lanz, the Novo Sampol brothers, Luis Posada Carriles, Orlando Bosch, Virgilio Paz, Antonio Veciana and others.”

Antonio Veciana’s organization was already in place in Dallas before Kennedy’s assassination, Fabián Escalante noted: “That was perfectly demonstrated. In other words, Antonio Veciana’s group was organizing in an unusual way in Dallas and his office was located in a house that, according to the Dallas sheriff – this isn’t what I’m saying, it’s what he said – Lee Harvey Oswald was seen entering¼How strange! What a coincidence!”

At that time, Dallas was a gunrunning center for the Italian mafia who purchased weapons from the U.S. Army and resold them to Cuban groups. “And Dallas, together with New Orleans and Miami, were the cities that made up the axis of all the trafficking of weapons and illegal explosives.”

When I produce a page on one of the people involved in the assassination of JFK, within a few days it is ranked first at Google (this is because of the large number of websites - about 170,000 - that link to my website). Interestingly, there is one exception to this. My page on Bernardo De Torres does not appear at the top. In fact, further research shows that the page has not been indexed by Google (this is done automatically every couple of days by its spider software). The only explanation is that someone at Google has consciously deleted it from the index. Torres obviously has some powerful friends.

The fact that I am posting this should ensure that this page should appear in the Goggle index. It will be interesting to see if it does.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKtorres.htm

This is true not only for Google, I find the same problem when I use Altavista or Yahoo search engines. However, I am more successful when I type in "Bernardo de Torres Spartacus". This is when his name ranks first at least on Yahoo.

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I also had the same problem with Google and other Search Engines when I started my website 'Toshplumlee.com in 2000. Some of the FBI documents and other information and explanations about John Rosellie and Cuban operations were deleted or cut out of the body of the work. Some of the names I used on the website were also cut out and not posted. (Tracy Barns, Morales, Robert Benette, and others I can not remember now. I contacked them about this and they said they would look into it. I never heard from them again, I also contacted the person who I paid to set up the website and was told it takes time to get it in the system. This was about the time that it was said that I was going "...to be grilled like a cheap hamberger..." by experts within the research comunity. I think Peter Dale Scott was one of the experts this person was refering to. I took the website down after one year because changes I requested on the site were not being made and material posted were being slanted, incerted, and linked to other sites of which I had not approved. hope this helps Tosh

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Tosh,

Thanks Tosh, it does help and does lead to more questions.  Perhaps this is why we talk about the assassination as one event from many, involving Cuba. 

I wonder if the JCS was really surprised at this secret accomodation plan.  When they learned of it yet knew of Bobby's work with the exiles, how could they not feel "dissed" to put it mildly.  And the Cubans who had received assistance find that LBJ shuts it them down.  The FBI and CIA, their constant monitoring of the various operations, ongoing since they early days in CUba, and the ops in Haiti and Domincan Rep. ongoing.

Dallas event became a great liability for these factions on the perifery.  Then we have Warren who cries at the great lie and Russell who knew of the operations in Cuba, yet questions the official story.  Hard to know where to start.

Great input Tosh.

Chris

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I'm sure it was hard on everyone involved in those operations from the JCS as well as the Oval Office.

Another project you reminded me about when you mention other OPs going on in the Dominican Republic and Hati. Do you remember when we talked about "Lester Murphy" and the doctor who was kidnapped and flown from the Dominican Republic to New York? The aircraft a twin beach D-18 of which I think I might have mention your father or Sherry's father might have flown with Alex Rouke in the Florida Keys. The aircraft at one time belong to "Steave Guthrie" a associate of John Pasily (?). The story is recorded in the old Life Magazine about 1958, I think "Galandez (?)"/ "Lester Murphy" Galandez I think was the kidnapped person who was taken to NY at the request of the CIA. Well anyway, I find it strange that John Paisely, who was killed in the Cheespeak Bay boating "accident" who was weighted down with chains and found in the Bay with a bullit in the head commited suicide... I think the background of this OPS can be found in that life article. I think I sent you a copy a few years ago, or maybe it was Sherry. The aircraft ID I think was N6800, but not sure today. There is a picture of it with its NC number in the article. Its interesting as to who it was register two "Atlantic Richfield" "Mid States Aviation". and "Southwest Airmotive", Dallas Love Field. Anyway if you like and you can find that information in your files it would lead into the Liza Howard material of 1962-63 and her murder and her trips from NY to Florida... OH yes. shortly after "Galandiz" was taken to NY. Lester Murphy was reported missing and has never been found... another CIA mystery... one of many... still that one is like the Rosellie mystery... neither crime has been solved as well as John A Pasiley murder (?) Three possible murders. never really investigated... Interesting.. Right?

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