William Plumlee
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Posts posted by William Plumlee
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Tim, I don't really play games with this subject - so no its not.
I have seen Roselli described as a Col. in a couple of places, Brad Ayars is
one source for that. I think Hinckle and Turner may have described him
as having a military rank too. However I don't recall ever seeing any
CIA document that confirms that - frankly after looking at thousands of
such documents that doesn't mean I haven't seen it, it very well could
mean I saw it and have forgotten - my memory is fair but far from
photographic. I think that if I had seen such a document I would have
referenced it and put it in my book though....maybe somebody will remind
me it's in there... After about 14 years at this my memory "buffer" is
overflowing, no doubt about that.
If you have seen it and can describe the source I may well remember it
and probably have it somewhere in my files or on CD. In that case I would
add it to my errata and credit you as I have a host of people who are
helping me make that work as historically accurate as possible.
-- Larry
Rosellie got tagged with the name Col. as a 'cut out' And I think that was given him by Harvey.. Rosellie never had an official rank as Col. His cover code at one time was Col. Rawlston and that introduction was only used a few (very few times) It was more of an "inside joke" and was used because; at the time the slang term Col was used a lot in those circles. I was once called "The General, by Rosellie. Tosh
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Tosh, why in 2000 or so were you contacted, do you think? I'm amazed at the late dates in Roselli interest. Maybe I'm missing something.
Best,
C
I understood that new information had been obtained on the Rosellie murder and the case was beimg looked at again.. What, or where that information came from, I do not know. nor, did I know if it was federal documents that had been recovered around 2000 or information from local law enforcement.
Hang in there..., later Tosh
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Tosh, I'm curious as to what particular files or documents you feel are
un-released on Black? Unfortunately the NARA search engine seems to
be down this afternoon but when I can I will hit it and post if I see any
unreleased documents on him.
If you have something specific on him that you know is unreleased we can
check it out but that would be new to me......also you had asked
if researchers had ever interviewed him and the answer on that would be
yes they have. Rappleye and Becker interviewed him and in fact researched
him at some length for their book on Roselli, that was in the early 90's. Morrow interviewed him earlier but got nothing more than dinner conversation as I recall. Schriber did some digging on him when he wrote his book on the "Bobby Baker Affair."
About the only thing that Rapplyeve and Becker found was that Black denied
passing on a warning to Roselli that was described by friends and relatives. That may well have been because Black would have had to explain why he was well enough connected to get a rumor that a contract was out on Roselli. Such a contract has been mentioned by oher associates of Roselli but of course that's something in the rumor class.
-- Larry
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Not sure if you would call this "spacific" perhaps only "interest". Perhaps the following "background information" will lead to something 'spacific".
In 1998, a Miami Dade Homicide detective mentioned to me that all the files on Fred Black Jr. had NOT been released to them in reference to Blacks associations with Johnnny Rosellie and others. It was said (to me) their investigators (homicide) had ran into a brick wall, as to Fred Black's previous military background and some government contacts had been omitted or withheld because of 'National Security'. I was ask, at the time, if I knew anything about his (Blacks) activities and association with Johnney Rosellie and others. I was under the impression Blaack might have been a suspect, or had knowledge, about the death of Rosellie. Again, I was under the impression that his private business dealings, which had been widely known, and all that other stuff is what they obtained and not information that had perhaps been classified for whatever reasons.
About two years later, I was contacted by a person in Miami law enforcement who told me the John Rosellie case was being looked into again (the case has never been closed, 'cold case' classification) and my name had been mentioned because of the FBI 62 file of 1976, Phoenix OO, and other sources. This FBI-62 and another 105, had NOT been given to Dade County at the time of the orginal investigation of the murder because my file had been classified. (My files were not declassified until 1978. Why? I have no idea.)
I contacted Miami Homicide and was put in touch with a detective who had been assigned the case, or was familiar with the details of the investigation. I talked to him and we were in process of setting a meeting in Miami. Within two weeks I was contacted by two FBI agents who ask why I was interested in contacts with Dade county. I refused to disscuss the mater and they left. The next day the Miami meeting was cancelled. I was told the Rosellie and Black mater was classified National Securety and I would be contacted by federal investigators. After a few weeks, I contacted federal authorites and they in turn told me the Rosellie and Fred Black Jr. matter was a government matter and I did not have the proper clearences necessary to discuss the matter with them.
That is why I ask the forum about information on the matter. Seems to me information is being with held or lost as to the indepth investigation of Black and that makes me ask questions as to the nature of what has been released. Has everything been released or is there other government matters we no nothing about still locked up somewhere, being withheld for whatever reasons..? If so, I would like to know the reasons..... Thanks Larry for the help. Sometimes, as you should know, there is no paper trail to prove an event. None the less, that does not mean there is no smoke and the case is closed. Thanks Tosh
P.S. Question to the forum.
Have you ever seen a baby pigon being born? If you have'nt, then that proves pigons don't exist. Thanks Tosh
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Tosh, I'm curious as to what particular files or documents you feel are
un-released on Black? Unfortunately the NARA search engine seems to
be down this afternoon but when I can I will hit it and post if I see any
unreleased documents on him.
If you have something specific on him that you know is unreleased we can
check it out but that would be new to me......also you had asked
if researchers had ever interviewed him and the answer on that would be
yes they have. Rappleye and Becker interviewed him and in fact researched
him at some length for their book on Roselli, that was in the early 90's. Morrow interviewed him earlier but got nothing more than dinner conversation as I recall. Schriber did some digging on him when he wrote his book on the "Bobby Baker Affair."
About the only thing that Rapplyeve and Becker found was that Black denied
passing on a warning to Roselli that was described by friends and relatives. That may well have been because Black would have had to explain why he was well enough connected to get a rumor that a contract was out on Roselli. Such a contract has been mentioned by oher associates of Roselli but of course that's something in the rumor class.
-- Larry
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Not sure if you would call this "spacific" perhaps only "interest". Perhaps the following "background information" will lead to something 'spacific".
In 1998, a Miami Dade Homicide detective mentioned to me that all the files on Fred Black Jr. had NOT been released to them in reference to Blacks associations with Johnnny Rosellie and others. It was said (to me) their investigators (homicide) had ran into a brick wall, as to Fred Black's previous military background and some government contacts had been omitted or withheld because of 'National Security'. I was ask, at the time, if I knew anything about his (Blacks) activities and association with Johnney Rosellie and others. I was under the impression Blaack might have been a suspect, or had knowledge, about the death of Rosellie. Again, I was under the impression that his private business dealings, which had been widely known, and all that other stuff is what they obtained and not information that had perhaps been classified for whatever reasons.
About two years later, I was contacted by a person in Miami law enforcement who told me the John Rosellie case was being looked into again (the case has never been closed, 'cold case' classification) and my name had been mentioned because of the FBI 62 file of 1976, Phoenix OO, and other sources. This FBI-62 and another 105, had NOT been given to Dade County at the time of the orginal investigation of the murder because my file had been classified. (My files were not declassified until 1978. Why? I have no idea.)
I contacted Miami Homicide and was put in touch with a detective who had been assigned the case, or was familiar with the details of the investigation. I talked to him and we were in process of setting a meeting in Miami. Within two weeks I was contacted by two FBI agents who ask why I was interested in contacts with Dade county. I refused to disscuss the mater and they left. The next day the Miami meeting was cancelled. I was told the Rosellie and Black mater was classified National Securety and I would be contacted by federal investigators. After a few weeks, I contacted federal authorites and they in turn told me the Rosellie and Fred Black Jr. matter was a government matter and I did not have the proper clearences necessary to discuss the matter with them.
That is why I ask the forum about information on the matter. Seems to me information is being with held or lost as to the indepth investigation of Black and that makes me ask questions as to the nature of what has been released. Has everything been released or is there other government matters we no nothing about still locked up somewhere, being withheld for whatever reasons..? If so, I would like to know the reasons..... Thanks Larry for the help. Sometimes, as you should know, there is no paper trail to prove an event. None the less, that does not mean there is no smoke and the case is closed. Thanks Tosh
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"I worked UC operations with KiKi Cammaranda and his pilot, Alveraz, before they were executed."
Tosh,
How much can you reveal about Kiki Camerena? He was allegedly killed by Mexican drug lords, a few of which were convicted and imprisoned for his murder. I looked into this somewhat, and found that Kiki was more than likely killed by the CIA because he discovered their involvement in flying cocaine from Central America into a base in Mexico before they brought it into the States. This was confirmed to me about a year ago by a retired DEA guy, who apparently knew you. He also said Kiki's family wholeheartedly believes Kiki was killed by the CIA. The Kerry Committee convened after it became known the CIA was involved in bringing coke in, and bringing weapons and such back down to Central America. Of course, much of this occurred during the Reagan years, Iran/Contra, etc.
While I'm on this subject, I have a few more questions if I may.
Since you were in that photo in Barry and the Boys, can you identify the others in the photo? The only other guy known for sure is Barry Seal. And when was the photo actually taken? I've heard 1964, and they were Op40, and I've heard 1976 and they were DEA. You were there, so you know for sure.
Next thing is...what do you know about Richard Armitage? We all know he was involved in Iran/Contra with Ollie North. Word is he was very much involved in the heroin network out of Laos in the early 70's, and he was the main man in Thailand. Was he also involved in the coke running during the 80's?
Last but not least, how about Ollie North? According to Hopsicker, he gave the order to kill Seal. I'm sure there's plenty that didn't come up in the Iran/Contra hearings about him. Anything you can tell us?
Thanks Tosh, and glad to see you here. I know you've had problems at Lancer with certain parties, but if you really want to spill your guts and clear up some nasty matters pertaining to fairly recent US history, I'd sure like to listen.
Richard
Richard: a little background... the following should have been edited a little tighter on the facts.. I'll give you my take on a "New Topic" 'KIKI'... Perhaps this is not the right Forum for that. Perhaps John can advise:
The following site may be of some help, althought I do not agree with some points, overall its good for the historical background. Keep in mind we (our team) was undercover "drug interdiction" (not cocain smugglers) AMSOG Military/CIA United States Federal Government. Most of what I would have to say on that subject is still. "Classified Top Secret; Commitee Sensitive".
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/pand...vice_c130s.html
"...Of a certainty, the 35 C-130s, which actually changed hands in the program, wound up doing many other things than fighting fires on behalf of the Forest Service. They have been documented on covert missions in France, Spain, Angola, South Africa, Central America, and even Kuwait during Desert Storm. In June 1991 one of Roy Reagan's C-130s crashed on a CIA mission in Angola killing the nephew of Rep Curt Weldon, R-Pa who later participated in hearings looking into the program.
"All of the contractors had unregulated air fields in remote places that were not usually subject to any kind of Customs inspections. All of the contractors were able to come and go virtually undetected so they could have been doing anything. It was an ideal cover both for drug smuggling and a variety of covert operations," Eitel observed.
( note: Hallburton, Udall Corp., Kerr McGee)
In 1994, as he was investigating his lawsuit, Eitel was researching various aspects of the Forest Service transfer at the Department of Justice. He was allowed to view classified materials relevant to the investigation. "I saw a three ring folder full of State Department Export certificates for C-130 and P 3 aircraft allowing them to leave the U.S. for foreign destinations. I logged 36 of the certificates and noted that at least one was going to Panama for a company called Trans Latin Air and at least one was going to a company named Aero Postale de Mexico. Both aircraft were being sent from T&G.
They were Forest Service aircraft", he added. "And what caught my attention was the fact that the certificates were signed by an attorney named John Ford. Ford was known to me as a CIA Australian attorney involved in the C-130s transferred to Bogota in the 70s and 80s and he was also connected to C-130s moved through Central America which came to the attention of U.S. Ambassador to Costa Rica, Louis Tambs during the Contra war. At the time State had protested the transfer because of possible drug connections."
In a 1993 segment of her news program Eye to Eye, Connie Chung covered the Sabow death in detail and showed evidence of the murder by introducing statements from Sabow's brother, a medical doctor, that Sabow had been unconscious and aspirating blood for minutes before a shotgun was rammed so far down his throat that it sheared off the uvula. In that same segment, veteran Air America and CIA pilot Tosh Plumlee stated that he flew loads of cocaine as large as 2,000 kilos onto El Toro in the years and months prior to Sabow's death - for the CIA. Plumlee stated clearly that he was flying C-130s operated by the Forest Service and their contractors. In later conversations with this writer Plumlee admitted that he routinely flew loads as large as 2,500 kilos onto military installations in California and Arizona for the CIA.
A Tragic Footnote
In August 1994 14 firefighters burned to death in an out of control forest fire in Colorado. The Federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration subsequently cited the Forest Service for "inadequate use of aviation resources." Where were all the tankers? According to Eitel they were all out of the country doing anything but fighting fires.
Thanks Tosh, good stuff. I hope John can recommend a place for discussion on Kiki and other related things.
One thing that perhaps you can look at in your post:
" Keep in mind we (our team) was undercover "drug interdiction" (not cocain smugglers)"
Then later in the post:
"In that same segment, veteran Air America and CIA pilot Tosh Plumlee stated that he flew loads of cocaine as large as 2,000 kilos onto El Toro..."
Wasn't the drug interdiction operation just a cover for smuggling cocaine back into the States? You said your team weren't cocaine smugglers, then you told Eye to Eye that you flew over 2000 keys of coke into El Toro. Can you resolve this?
RJS
I'll try. We had infiltrated known cartel flyways. That was our assignment. Infiltrate, also known as 'Operation Penatrate". After we infiltrated the Cartel's Drug Routes, (undercover) through Mexico we brought our loads to various staging area in the United States and unloaded to be taken to "evidence storage" for what we thought were to be classified as "interdiction". It was later learned that some were saying the cocain coming in was being taken from the staging areas and sold on open market to finance weapon purchases for the Cintra Resupply. So you can say "I was a drug runner for Uncle Sam" or "I flew drugs for Uncle Sam". However, some of our team members lost their lives documenting the fly ways into this country in order to stop the drug trasportation into this country. I flew over thousands of Kilo's of cocain into this country that was involved in a sanction federal undercover operation. I was working an operation authorized by the Federal government. What and how things were done or not done and the reasons thereof, I would not know.. I was an 'Undercover pilot for the federal government. What they did with it I found out later and came forward out of chanells, so as to protect myself by releasing documented classified information before the fact and not after. (Hence the meetings with Senator Gary Hart) I did not and do not approved of how this OPS became used by 'Special Interest" to fund the Contra.
So in that respect some could say, I was a cocain sumuggler, but far different from drug cartel members, who operated for profit and personal gain. Keep in mind.The recap was from CBS as to how they interupeted what I had said. Hope this helps to some degree. I feel I blew the whistle on a few special interest personal who were running an illegal operation from within the WhiteHouse. Tosh
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Tosh, I can supply a little information although I don't know if Black
is still alive, if so he would be quite old as he was certainly middle
aged in 1963. I've certainly never seen him on any suspicious death lists.
Black's connections were almost entirely high level legal and government
associations, he was one of the first "super lobbyists" making hundreds of
thousands of dollars from corportations circa 1960. His two major
clients appear to have been North American Aviation and Howard Foundries, both
with significant government contracts. He was the subject of both FBI and
Congressional investigation related to both those clients, the Baker affair was
big trouble to him but even more was the Howard Foundry investigation
which blew up in 1964 and was a major concern to Johnson as it involved a
2.7 million Air Force contract.
Black was also the subject of an FBI wire tap investigation and successfully
challenged the FBI in Court and as part of the Baker thing.
I recall seeing Black testimony but I don't know if that was HSCA or some of
the other investigations, in any event Black said as little as possible and pretty
much denied knowing anybody he was asked about other than in passing.
I don't think there has ever been any sign that Black had been associated with
operational Cuban exiles or really with anybody other than lawyers, high ranking government employees and various high flyers within the Las Vegas and L.A. crime set such as Roselli and Levinson.
-- Larry
Thanks Larry. I apreciate the relply and information.
The "high flyers" are what I am most intereted. I do know that Rosellie had a wide assortment of connections (high flyers and low flyers) Perhaps Black also worked the "back streets" as well. The Alpha -66 group also worked with people in high places within our government, as well Cuba and its government. There were others who were only "leg people". Piro Sarcarras (?) comes to mind as well as Justo Carrillio (?phon) and others associated with Cuba and the United States State Department like Whicha (?) ref; United Fruit hostage mater of 1958. These and others were perhaps the middle "high flyers" of the time associated with the Havana scean of the mid to late fifties. There were other State Department personal who also worked with Hughes and Mahue and the Dallas Cubans in the gun running operations of the time. Perhaps Black through these 'back door' chanells knew more than he was asked to tell.., in reference to JFK and Johnson.
I find it interesting that all the files and information of Fred Black Jr., have not been released and portions of his file is still locked under the vail of 'National Security'. It appears to me that only the higher dealings of a private nature have been the only matters released to the public and his direct dealings with known high ranking and low ranking government operatives of the United States and Cuba, of the time remain 'Classified".
Again thanks for the information. I think its interesting and Black's "low flying" as well as his high flying connections and possible 'out of chanell 'dealings should be looked into further.
Thanks again,Tosh Plumlee
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I posted this earlier. Perhaps it got lost in the exchanges of informations about Galindez: I'll ask again:
Questions to the Forum:
(1) Is Fred Black Jr. still alive?
(2) If not what happened to him?
(3) Did he testified to the HSCA?
(4) Has recent FOIA been released on him?
(5) Is there any documentation of a connection between
Black and El Torres or the Dallas Cubans?
(6) Did Black have any ties to MI, INTEL, Dallas, or ONI?
Any information would be apreciate. Tosh Plumlee
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I would not know to much about that lienage. I think it goes a little to far outside the scope of approved OPS. I would like to point out one thing that I think a lot of people do not consider when they get into this type of research.
In most all the authorized OPS I have ever been on.., you never congregate together in one place, or pose for "pictures". It is a known fact in "Black Operations", (CIA or Military Covert OPS) you go out of your way to NOT leave a trail, or documetation as to your activites, connections, or where abouts. That is a "NO-NO", and one of the first rules that is taught.
I feel to much value is put on this type of conformation and tie-in to approved Government Operations. I know some pictures have been planted to draw suspected operatives out for elimation, in order to protect the whole operation. In fact. We would go to grate lengths to NOT be recorded or spotted. In fact, that is why code names and coded operations and coded locations were used. Why would we want to leave a record or trail if it was an approved secret operation?
I request that you give this some deep thought. I have known men who have been called on the carpet because of this security brakedown. The old WWII pharse ... "Loose Lips Sinks Ships", still applies. We seem to, now days , "...chase eachothers tails, and go round and round...". over pictures and what they mean... I think, "not much". Sorry. IMHO .
Those who need pictures and documents and concrete proof, to remind themselves how important a part they played in the scope of history, were never associated directly with approved CIA/MI Government operations and were perhaps only used as 'Cut-Out s" to protect the real direction of an event authorized by others who were secretly hidden in the shadows.... Thanks, I'll continue to try and help on picture ID but I feel to much is put upon pictures and what they really mean...... "If we shoot for the moon... we do not want to land on Mars" (Tosh Plumlee)
Yes, Tosh, I would have to agree with you. There was also the situation were in the days before the JFK assassination plans formed, photographers like Tom Dunkin, Andrew St. George, Dickey Chapelle, Terrence Spencer and Lyn Pelham took photos of anti-Castro fighters so to promote their cause. I believe some of these people were then recruited into the Dallas plot which may have made some nervous. The ransacking of Tom Dunkin's place may be the result of that. Dunkin snapped many images of Interpen members as well as other anti-Castro activities involving guys like Dennis Harber, William Seymour and Bernardo De Torres.
The guys in the image I posted earlier were arrested by Castro's forces and paraded for the Cuban media as American mercenaries. That shot was published in one of the Cuban papers.
Cheers,
James
Thanks James. Photo's are an execellent source, but when they become interwoven into a sanction operation, and are said to be proof of the existing operational members of that covert operation as a whole, then that becomes another matter. What you and some others are doing with the pictures you come across is commendable and certainly helps follow the lineage as various people are recruited, sometimes for a "one time" shot in an ongoing OPS. However, there are others who try to work their concepts and I.D.'s into a group conspiracy when in fact the picture was only a, perhaps, previous private PR picture.
In my opinion, the infamous Mexico picture found in "Berry and the Boys" allegedy naming various OPS 40 members all seated together falls into this cateorgy.
Thanks again for sharing your picture with me. They are a tremendous help And too, your photos also represent to me long tedious hours of research... the true mark of a professional. Thanks again for your help and sharing. Tosh
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I've got Gonzales on the brain, or the third guy from the left sure looks like him. (Tim Carroll)
I went through that stage myself, Tim. Everyone looked like Gonzalez to me until I realized that I was going slowly insane.
At this point in time, I believe Gonzalez was Felipe Vidal Santiago's assistant when Vidal was Chief of Martime Police in Cuba.
James
I would not know to much about that lienage. I think it goes a little to far outside the scope of approved OPS. I would like to point out one thing that I think a lot of people do not consider when they get into this type of research.
In most all the authorized OPS I have ever been on.., you never congregate together in one place, or pose for "pictures". It is a known fact in "Black Operations", (CIA or Military Covert OPS) you go out of your way to NOT leave a trail, or documetation as to your activites, connections, or where abouts. That is a "NO-NO", and one of the first rules that is taught.
I feel to much value is put on this type of conformation and tie-in to approved Government Operations. I know some pictures have been planted to draw suspected operatives out for elimation, in order to protect the whole operation. In fact. We would go to grate lengths to NOT be recorded or spotted. In fact, that is why code names and coded operations and coded locations were used. Why would we want to leave a record or trail if it was an approved secret operation?
I request that you give this some deep thought. I have known men who have been called on the carpet because of this security brakedown. The old WWII pharse ... "Loose Lips Sinks Ships", still applies. We seem to, now days , "...chase eachothers tails, and go round and round...". over pictures and what they mean... I think, "not much". Sorry. IMHO .
Those who need pictures and documents and concrete proof, to remind themselves how important a part they played in the scope of history, were never associated directly with approved CIA/MI Government operations and were perhaps only used as 'Cut-Out s" to protect the real direction of an event authorized by others who were secretly hidden in the shadows.... Thanks, I'll continue to try and help on picture ID but I feel to much is put upon pictures and what they really mean...... "If we shoot for the moon... we do not want to land on Mars" Tosh
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They were Forest Service aircraft", he added. "And what caught my attention was the fact that the certificates were signed by an attorney named John Ford. Ford was known to me as a CIA Australian attorney involved in the C-130s transferred to Bogota in the 70s and 80s and he was also connected to C-130s moved through Central America which came to the attention of U.S. Ambassador to Costa Rica, Louis Tambs during the Contra war. At the time State had protested the transfer because of possible drug connections. (Tosh Plumlee)
Interesting the mention of Ford. Ford was connected to Aero Union where Roy Reagan had offices. Ford was also the attorney for Pacific Harbor Capital, a company owned by PacifiCorp which had long associations with the CIA. One of the Australian C-130's brokered by Ford was involved with all the stuff going on at Mena.
Interesting that a lot of this activity directed toward Central America sprang from the demise of the Nugan/Hand bank in Sydney. It was also suggested that some of the easy money diverted from this into mining ventures in Western Australia. If I'm not mistaken (and I often am) the secretive US base at Exmouth in Western Australia sprang up about this time as well.
FWIW.
James
James.
Good background work: How did you know, or find out, about the secret base in Australia? The stuff going on at Mena was "Aircraft Retro Fitting" at "Richmont Aviation" for C-130's. It was DoD contract for modifications of C130's that had came out of the 'Moth Ball Fleet' and etc. Berry Seals C-123, at one time had been modified at Richmont. I flew into there with one of the C-130 for retro fitting. I think 60-Minuets has a film clip of the C-130 with a Pirate flag, a "Jolly Roger" flying from the left side of the cockpiyt. In fact all the C-130's had code names. "Jolly Roger", "Iron Butterfly", "Fat Lady (C-123)", Fat Lady II, (C-130-A) 'Leaping Lizard', "My Gal Sue" and "Sure Thing" ( a Forest Service Slurry bomber ') 096PP, or 069PaPa ?)
Crair La Bar , a good friend, lost, his life in one of these C-130-A's about two year agos in Walker CA. The main wing spar broke due to corrosion and both he and his pilot were Killed. (2002, I think) All C-130's fleet aircraft for the Forsest Service were then grounded. A few weeks after that fatality another Forest Service, a PB-3 Neptune, lost its wing spar due to corrosion and all Forest Service Slurry aircraft were grounded. The 'Covert arm' also had its share of accidents around the world during this time, but the public never heard about these men and aircraft. Go off track.. please forgivre... Tosh
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Now some people still do not like this type of stuff surfacing.... follow the money... Guns and AMMO, tanks and planes... Batista and Castro... Interesting bed fellows.... If you get to far into this.., Doors will slam shut and the lights will go out... None the less... go for it.... (Tosh Plumlee)
Tosh,
Would one of those money trails have come from Carlos Prio? Remembering that Prio tried to woo Duvalier to use Haiti as a base of operations after trying to establish himself in the Dominican Republic.
Also, do you know if the groundwork laid by Prio as suggested in the document below eventually became the network which guys like Tony Varona later exploited?
This bunch of guys below were one of the first teams into Cuba post revolution but were busted. Do any look familiar? I'd like to know who the guy 3rd from the right is.
YES, to the all of the above. I am not sure about the picture. I will look at this a little closer and study the photo and get back to you.. Tosh
James
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"I worked UC operations with KiKi Cammaranda and his pilot, Alveraz, before they were executed."
Tosh,
How much can you reveal about Kiki Camerena? He was allegedly killed by Mexican drug lords, a few of which were convicted and imprisoned for his murder. I looked into this somewhat, and found that Kiki was more than likely killed by the CIA because he discovered their involvement in flying cocaine from Central America into a base in Mexico before they brought it into the States. This was confirmed to me about a year ago by a retired DEA guy, who apparently knew you. He also said Kiki's family wholeheartedly believes Kiki was killed by the CIA. The Kerry Committee convened after it became known the CIA was involved in bringing coke in, and bringing weapons and such back down to Central America. Of course, much of this occurred during the Reagan years, Iran/Contra, etc.
While I'm on this subject, I have a few more questions if I may.
Since you were in that photo in Barry and the Boys, can you identify the others in the photo? The only other guy known for sure is Barry Seal. And when was the photo actually taken? I've heard 1964, and they were Op40, and I've heard 1976 and they were DEA. You were there, so you know for sure.
Next thing is...what do you know about Richard Armitage? We all know he was involved in Iran/Contra with Ollie North. Word is he was very much involved in the heroin network out of Laos in the early 70's, and he was the main man in Thailand. Was he also involved in the coke running during the 80's?
Last but not least, how about Ollie North? According to Hopsicker, he gave the order to kill Seal. I'm sure there's plenty that didn't come up in the Iran/Contra hearings about him. Anything you can tell us?
Thanks Tosh, and glad to see you here. I know you've had problems at Lancer with certain parties, but if you really want to spill your guts and clear up some nasty matters pertaining to fairly recent US history, I'd sure like to listen.
Richard
Richard: a little background... the following should have been edited a little tighter on the facts.. I'll give you my take on a "New Topic" 'KIKI'... Perhaps this is not the right Forum for that. Perhaps John can advise:
The following site may be of some help, althought I do not agree with some points, overall its good for the historical background. Keep in mind we (our team) was undercover "drug interdiction" (not cocain smugglers) AMSOG Military/CIA United States Federal Government. Most of what I would have to say on that subject is still. "Classified Top Secret; Commitee Sensitive".
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/pand...vice_c130s.html
"...Of a certainty, the 35 C-130s, which actually changed hands in the program, wound up doing many other things than fighting fires on behalf of the Forest Service. They have been documented on covert missions in France, Spain, Angola, South Africa, Central America, and even Kuwait during Desert Storm. In June 1991 one of Roy Reagan's C-130s crashed on a CIA mission in Angola killing the nephew of Rep Curt Weldon, R-Pa who later participated in hearings looking into the program.
"All of the contractors had unregulated air fields in remote places that were not usually subject to any kind of Customs inspections. All of the contractors were able to come and go virtually undetected so they could have been doing anything. It was an ideal cover both for drug smuggling and a variety of covert operations," Eitel observed.
( note: Hallburton, Udall Corp., Kerr McGee)
In 1994, as he was investigating his lawsuit, Eitel was researching various aspects of the Forest Service transfer at the Department of Justice. He was allowed to view classified materials relevant to the investigation. "I saw a three ring folder full of State Department Export certificates for C-130 and P 3 aircraft allowing them to leave the U.S. for foreign destinations. I logged 36 of the certificates and noted that at least one was going to Panama for a company called Trans Latin Air and at least one was going to a company named Aero Postale de Mexico. Both aircraft were being sent from T&G.
They were Forest Service aircraft", he added. "And what caught my attention was the fact that the certificates were signed by an attorney named John Ford. Ford was known to me as a CIA Australian attorney involved in the C-130s transferred to Bogota in the 70s and 80s and he was also connected to C-130s moved through Central America which came to the attention of U.S. Ambassador to Costa Rica, Louis Tambs during the Contra war. At the time State had protested the transfer because of possible drug connections."
In a 1993 segment of her news program Eye to Eye, Connie Chung covered the Sabow death in detail and showed evidence of the murder by introducing statements from Sabow's brother, a medical doctor, that Sabow had been unconscious and aspirating blood for minutes before a shotgun was rammed so far down his throat that it sheared off the uvula. In that same segment, veteran Air America and CIA pilot Tosh Plumlee stated that he flew loads of cocaine as large as 2,000 kilos onto El Toro in the years and months prior to Sabow's death - for the CIA. Plumlee stated clearly that he was flying C-130s operated by the Forest Service and their contractors. In later conversations with this writer Plumlee admitted that he routinely flew loads as large as 2,500 kilos onto military installations in California and Arizona for the CIA.
A Tragic Footnote
In August 1994 14 firefighters burned to death in an out of control forest fire in Colorado. The Federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration subsequently cited the Forest Service for "inadequate use of aviation resources." Where were all the tankers? According to Eitel they were all out of the country doing anything but fighting fires.
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SOURCES: The Riverside Press-Enterprise, AP, The Arizona Republic,
Hope this helps.. More to come later, Tosh
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There's that reference to S Ross (Stanley Ross?) of El Diario de Nueva York. Funny how one reference alludes to Ross and not the other.
So, Ross and Mahue, connected and next Ulacewicz investigates (Galindez grab) for NYPD. Ulacewicz later involved Watergate. Muy complicado.
I think the weapons were from National Guard. (Arkon Ohio) I do not have access to any of my old FBI files at the moment, but the FBI, (at that time said I had nothing to do with any of that and everything I had said to them had been proven wrong.. ". Why was the National Guard and the names of the people involved in that OPs covered by the FBI in 1958. (FBI 105: "...when Plumlee was arrested in Columbus Ohio he was attempting to pass a forged check at 'Morehouse Fashions..". Compare to U.S. Customs document, same date: ".... when Mr Plumlee was arrested by Customs he was turned over to local athorities, in view of his location being to far inland, it would be impossible to prove he was transportation guns to Castro's Rebels..." Perhaps someone has copies of those two conflicting FOIA documents and would care to post them......
Thanks Christy... Tosh
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Gerry Droller ( aka Toney Bender) was an 'Operational' name for a spicific operation. On the gun-running Ops he was 'Droller' my contact person. I also knew his real name before he went operational. (Bender) As found in the FBI 105 files along with Martino. Thanks for the info.
Was that name Frank Eisenstall?
Sorry Tim I missed quoted myself.. I said Toney Bender and I meant Frank Bender.. I have, in the past, confussed Frank Bender with Tony Varona. Why? I don't know. Frank Eisenstall? Tthat could have been his real name but I was under the impression his real name was Frank Bender, but I also knew him as Droller...? Kind of like : "Who's on first. Whats on Second, and He's up to bat....". Tosh
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No, Gerry Droller was an alias for Bender, or so the mismanaged Judyth outline McAdams put up indicates.
Then they have it backwards.
Tim
Gerry Droller ( aka Toney Bender) was an 'Operational' name for a spicific operation. On the gun-running Ops he was 'Droller' my contact person. I also knew his real name before he went operational. (Bender) As found in the FBI 105 files along with Martino. Thanks for the info.
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Tosh
Inter-Mountain was a CIA proprietary airline with a maintenance
station and airfield in Mena, Arkansas.
(but i'm sure you knew that)
Shanet
Thanks: I was thinking of the Inter-Mountain of the sixties, I think... I did know about one nect to "Richmont Aviation".... I could have been thinking about Mid-States and got them corn-fussed. Or perhaps it was Evergreen.. The era was in the sixties. Some of these companies kept their aircraft based at L.B. Smith Corp, Miami International. Thanks again for the reply. Tosh
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Remembering that there could be about 7 years between images.
I believe that these are Virgilio Gonzales:
And these are the same, unidentified gentleman:
Tim
Tim; I think V Gonzales was on aboat in the southern Everglades, not far from Port Everglades (REX?) getting ready for a raid into Cuba. Again just my impressions. Tosh
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Remembering that there could be about 7 years between images.
I believe that these are Virgilio Gonzales:
And these are the same, unidentified gentleman:
Tim
Tim: Ref; Two large pictures. One labeled Celso Hernandez, left and the other labeled 'Unknown Alpha-66. I believe the picture on the left is Hernandez That both of these pictures are Hernandez.
One reason is because of the Dallas connection and Alpha 66. And his standing next to Sargen MPD for Alpha -66 The other reason is I remember this man's face around Zangs Blvd and Harlendale in Dallas's Oak Cliff. At one time I thought his name was Cecil Franandez. I think I had seen him and Lee together shortly after Lee came back from N.O. I am not real sure about the Lee picture in N.O., but I bet it is Hernandez. Impressions... Thanks for all the help Tosh
I think Marina was P.G about this time... ask her. I do not have research... I have only memories...and I'm getting up there in age. Tosh
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(1) Does anyone have any information on Galandez and the Domenican Republic around 1957?
(2) Steve Guthrie, Lester Murphy? (Tosh Plumlee)
Tosh,
The Murphy you refer to, is that the freelance pilot who vanished in the Dominican Republic after flying Galindez who was then supposedly kidnapped?
If so, I have a page from Murphy's notebook below which shows the entry Jesus de Galindez. Any of those other numbers ring a bell? I also have a shot of Murphy's house which I believe was under surveillance after his disappearance.
If that is the same Murphy, I will try to get some information for you.
Cheers,
James
Yes James. Thanks. Same Murphy.., same house. Lester and I used to fly together. We both flew Rosellie and others at different times. (mid to late fifties) Steve Guthrie owned the D-18 (? N6800 ?) that we used to fly. It was registered to 'Atlantic Richfield', I think and later to "Inter-Mountain Aviation'. (60's) For awhile it was based at Miami and Lantana, West Palm Beach. (1962-63) Was Murphy ever found? What happened to Galandez (Galindez)? I'll study the numbers and if I can help, I'll get back to you.... This is still real touchie stuff. Still to some degree "Classified". Anything on 'Inter-Mountain or Mid States Aviation?
Thanks James This information helps a lot.
P.S to above post..
Interesting note book. To some degree I am familiar with some of the notes. IF my memory serves me right there is information and contacts for the guns and ammo which were being moved around at that time. There are a few CIA cut-outs in those notes... Do you have the note book, because if you do then you will find Rosellies code name under 'R' and "S' ROSS and Soroco ( ?) Coral Gabels Florida S/W 9th Ter. Also I think John Paisely or his look alike worked as a case officer with operatives in Dominican Republic.. This is all memory... I'll geet back to you on this after I prod along... again thanks a lot.. Tosh
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(1) Does anyone have any information on Galandez and the Domenican Republic around 1957?
(2) Steve Guthrie, Lester Murphy? (Tosh Plumlee)
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Here's a better index for the AJWeberman site with that Galindez/Murphy stuff.
Thanks Christy.. Where in all that is info on Galandez ? Do you know off hand? There is a lot to skem through. Thanks Tosh
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Was Oswald not supposed to live in Dallas in october/november 1962? (Wim Dankbaar)
Indeed he was, Wim.
Hernandez was also involved in the confrontation with Bringuier in New Orleans.
James
James,
Is Hernandez anywhere in this photo, or do you have another showing his New Orleans involvement?
Just now when I posted this I noticed the guy on the left, who is a dead ringer for this guy on the left:
Tim
Good work James and Tim. Is the person on the far left Hernandez for sure? If so, I find it interesting that he is posing, in another picture, with the Military Plans Director of Alpha-66, Narzaio Sergen some years later. AND too, possibly connected in some way with the Dallas Cubans and their safe houses in Dallas. (62-63) Can anyone ID the person on the far right? Tosh
Fred Black Jr.
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
P.S. At one time in 1962 and a few times later around JMWAVE HQ and Miami's "Cuban Desk", Rosellie was known as Col. Rawlston. In fact he signed in the gate on the way to Zenith Tech. (#bld 25 south camous Miami University) as Col Rawlston. Foe awhile those logs were available, but they became lost. (I was told this) Gordon Winslow might have found the old sign in logs, but I would not know about that. They were available to Miami Dade County in 1977. ???? Tosh