William Plumlee

"...connection between Cesar, Hemming, and Hargraves?..."

According to Hemming and Hargraves there was. But I do not believe there was any direct connection.

The FBI's Miami field office to the CIA's CAG, has Hemming at another place. Also pictures supplied (or incerted) at the time, have been mis-labeled. With all due respect. It does not matter how I know. But,I know. Tosh

Tosh:

Do you have any thoughts on the identity of this man?

I would have loved for it to be shown to be Cesar, but I have to question that.

Tim

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It is not Cesar. And thats about all I can say about that. Sorry Tim. Perhaps Christy has a picture to compare it to?

Tosh,

To continue the Gator/El Gato possibilities, I have dug up this image below. Do any of the guys standing in the background look familiar? Sorry about the ordinary quality. I know this is difficult given that it is such a long time ago.

BTW, that is Ramon Grau San Martin seated in the center and Tony Varona seated on the far right.

James

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James: The man 3rd from left front row I think I know, but cannot recall. The man standing to the left of the lady in the dress I also know, but from the time frame of around 1957-58. Gun-running. Is Carlos Piro Socarras (?) in the picture? My memory fails me. The only one who could be the 'Gator" I have spoken and on my flight (if he is in this picture and I can not be sure of that.., is the person on the back right standing behind the little Lady," Mrs Rosa" Romaros(?) a friend of old man Rojas who was executed by Fidel Castro in Feb. 1959. Rojas had been with the Batista Secret Police. He was the grandfather of the Rojas who used to work for Cabana Airlines, Havana, Miami, before going with the CIA anti-Castro rebels around 1961. He was my pilot on some of the flights into Cuba and Dallas. (1962-63) Rojas could have been standing out of view, next to Rosa. (rt) I'll get back to it. (the picture) Tosh

Tosh,

To continue the Gator/El Gato possibilities, I have dug up this image below. Do any of the guys standing in the background look familiar? Sorry about the ordinary quality. I know this is difficult given that it is such a long time ago.

BTW, that is Ramon Grau San Martin seated in the center and Tony Varona seated on the far right.

James

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James: thanks for the picture. I'll try to help on that one also, if I can. just need a little time. First impressions (Bogota, 1960???) (?/Eugene Martines right of lady??

The one I was asking about was posted a few days ago. I thought you had posted it. I said I would get back to it. I tried to find it but have not as yet, and was wondering it you could re- post it... if it was you who posted it..

The picture is a black and white taken(I think) at a A-66 training site called

The "FARM" in the Everglades. (?62) OR at another site (staging and training site for the up comming BoP, before going into 'TIDE"operations. However I think it was A-66's tent city, in the everglades. Front row are eight people poseing. in the background is a man in a white shirt and another with a "cowboy" styled had and a white helment linner MP Guard or "Camp Guard". I said I would get back to it and if I could name any of them from memory I would try. Sorry I did not note the location of the post at the time. I have a small break before I have to get back to my other projects.

These are my first impressions from memory,after looking briefly at the previous post the other day.

From left to right front row: 1. "Eddie Collins", 2. not sure, 3."Carriles".. the postman.., or perhaps " Howard Hunt", not real sure. 4. "Elando Devalle" 5. "Nazario Sargen", 6. "The Bull' Torres, 'El Toro'. 7 (?) "Bosch, Orlando" 8. "John Martino" In the background: left to right: 9. man in white shirt, "Felipe" could be Santiago". 10. (?) I think is a person who some called "Cowboy".

This is NOT "INTERPEND" or "NO NAME KEY". location I am sure. Could have been called "Pelican Roost, #2," by the gringos at Miami Station.

Another picture was posted, later. I cannot find now: A man standing at the back of a car with his foot on the bumper. AGAING MY MEMORIES and RECALL ONLY. Poss (?) Bernard Torres a member of the "Dallas Cubans" my first impressions. My second impression: Bud Turner a charter pilot based out of 'Dallas Aero Service, Dallas Love Field. Hope this helps. Tosh

Thanks Tosh

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Thanks Tim: Thats the one I was talking about earlier. Please keep in mind this is only my impressions from long ago memories. Tosh

Tosh,

To continue the Gator/El Gato possibilities, I have dug up this image below. Do any of the guys standing in the background look familiar? Sorry about the ordinary quality. I know this is difficult given that it is such a long time ago.

BTW, that is Ramon Grau San Martin seated in the center and Tony Varona seated on the far right.

James

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James: thanks for the picture. I'll try to help on that one also, if I can. just need a little time. First impressions (Bogota, 1960???) (?/Eugene Martines right of lady??

The one I was asking about was posted a few days ago. I thought you had posted it. I said I would get back to it. I tried to find it but have not as yet, and was wondering it you could re- post it... if it was you who posted it..

The picture is a black and white taken(I think) at a A-66 training site called

The "FARM" in the Everglades. (?62) OR at another site (staging and training site for the up comming BoP, before going into 'TIDE"operations. However I think it was A-66's tent city, in the everglades. Front row are eight people poseing. in the background is a man in a white shirt and another with a "cowboy" styled had and a white helment linner MP Guard or "Camp Guard". I said I would get back to it and if I could name any of them from memory I would try. Sorry I did not note the location of the post at the time. I have a small break before I have to get back to my other projects.

These are my first impressions from memory,after looking briefly at the previous post the other day.

From left to right front row: 1. "Eddie Collins", 2. not sure, 3."Carriles".. the postman.., or perhaps " Howard Hunt", not real sure. 4. "Elando Devalle" 5. "Nazario Sargen", 6. "The Bull' Torres, 'El Toro'. 7 (?) "Bosch, Orlando" 8. "John Martino" In the background: left to right: 9. man in white shirt, "Felipe" could be Santiago". 10. (?) I think is a person who some called "Cowboy".

This is NOT "INTERPEND" or "NO NAME KEY". location I am sure. Could have been called "Pelican Roost, #2," by the gringos at Miami Station.

Another picture was posted, later. I cannot find now: A man standing at the back of a car with his foot on the bumper. AGAING MY MEMORIES and RECALL ONLY. Poss (?) Bernard Torres a member of the "Dallas Cubans" my first impressions. My second impression: Bud Turner a charter pilot based out of 'Dallas Aero Service, Dallas Love Field. Hope this helps. Tosh

Thanks Tosh

Thanks Tosh,

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I can't remember where Walker lived but for some reason I think it was Cedar Springs not far from Turttle Creek, and not far from the MKT rail road tracts. ( Cedar Springs and at the cornor of Perhaps Cole Ave or Travis Street) Any information on this would be apreciated.

Tosh

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General Walker lived on Turtle Creek.

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Thanks Tim I could not remember for sure. I'll get back to you when I get back from my trip. Keep up the good work. Tosh

Tosh,

Don't get mad, no forum is clean.

I have an interesting question:  Did you ever cross paths with Harry Dean?

Wim

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Hey Wim: I was'nt mad. I think its interesting and shows detailed work. No I do not remember any association with Harry Dean. I'm not sure if our paths ever crossed. I crossed paths with a lot of people, some I remember, some I do not.

...I ask a pilot friend of mind a few years ago (American West) If he knew who was on his flight from Phoenix to San Diego on August the 3rd 1998. He could not recall. He was surprised when I told him the "Son of Sam" I can't understand why he could not remember." (...thasts a pun, Wim.. you know a funny.. Take care Tosh

Because of all the controversy surrounding this tag I spent a fair amount of

time researching what had been written about it while I was working on my book - I really wanted to include it as a tie to Miami in the way others have written about it previously and per remarks by the mysterious Col Bishop.

In doing so I discussed it wth Mary Ferrell and she related to me that in her

early investigation she had found internal documents at the DPD which gave

the liscence plate number (it was a Texas plate) and that they had even traced it to an individual who was,  as I recall a car salesman in a nearby suburb and known associate of Walker.

Although I did not obtain any documentation,  Mary was quite certain of this and with her known reputation for accuracty I decided I better not simply repeat speculation on the tag. 

....for what its worth,  Larry

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Geroge Casels was a "Tombstone salesman" for a firm out of GA. At one time he did work as a new car salesman not far from Love Field, on Lemmon Ave. I do not know the years he worked there but it was part time. The picture was taken at the back of the house, next to an alley. I can't remember where Walker lived but for some reason I think it was Cedar Springs not far from Turttle Creek, and not far from the MKT rail road tracts. ( Cedar Springs and at the cornor of Perhaps Cole Ave or Travis Street) Any information on this would be apreciated.

Tosh

Tosh,

A year or so ago on another forum Don Roberdeau posted that the 1957 Chevrolet belonged to Vidal's brother-in-law.

Before the tag was obliterated while in DPD custody, the photo appeared in another DPD photo with the tag still intact, which appeared in Chief Curry's book "Personal Assassination File."

If Don is a member here, maybe he can say more on this.

Ron

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Thanks Larry: I would appreciate any information available. This story has followed me for a long time, and I was told what I posted by the Casels some years ago in Dallas and I told it to a FBI interviewer about 1976, in Phoenix. How confident are you that what previously has been said about this automobile is for real? Has anyone ever tried to see if it was registered to either of these people mentioned? I will be gone for a few days and will get back to you next week... Thanks Tosh You have my email Tosh

Felipe,

In another thread, mention was made of the car parked in the driveway of General Walker's house. The licence tag has been obliterated.

Do you know if the '57 Chevy in question (see attachment below) was owned or driven regularly by your uncle, Felipe Vidal Santiago?

Cheers,

James

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I think the car was register to a "Captain Edward G Seiwell" ; Dallas (Highland Park) Texas. My parents, Clerence M Morgam, my step father, lived at 3509 Lexington around the block from Geroge Casels. I was married earlier (1954 to"Joan Cassels" the daughter of George. George sold a Tombstone to Siewell for one of Seiwells relatives. I cannot go (at this time) into how I know this because it involves other people and I have not ask for their permission to do so. However, the FBI did know this in 1964. Ref; Captain Edward G Siewell, fourth Army Reserve, INTEL, Dallas Love Field. Dallas #105 Naturality Matters. Seiwell was my CO at Love Field around 1954-55. Seiwell was a regular at "Ed Maclamora's (?) "Sportatorium" on Industrail Blvd, Dallas Texas ( not far from Oak Cliff and one of the three Dallas Cubans "safe house" ( Harlendale, Zangs Blvd, and Beckley street. Beckley Street was behind where Lee rented a room for a while. Ref; investigators Jim Marrs, Nigel Turner, and Oliver Stone's investigative crew.) Hope this helps to some degree. Tosh

Is Tosh's name a hint to the veracity and credibility of the content of his posts?

Are Americans aware what the word 'tosh' means?

Encarta World English Dictionary:

tosh    /tosh/    nonsense or foolishness (dated informal Mid- 19thC. Origin unknown)

Just a thought.......

EBC

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EBS: Yes. I have been told that many times. Also. In the south (here in America) around the time of the Civil War, the word Tosh also meant a kind of " silly person. a jokester. Phrases like "Oh Tosh, Tosh". If I have fabricated my story and it is all "Tosh, "Tosh", then I am one hell of a good jokester and have really pulled a lot of legs on this one, forgetting all the factual material, by me and others, which is interwoven within my world class joke. Thanks for the information. Any good researcher would have to take it into consideration.. That type of stuff is what makes good researchers. Thanks for the post EDC Later "Tosh, Tosh".. I have to go out of town, and pull some more legs with my company....

That bridge was damned crowded and the Secret Service let it happen.

shanet

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Interesting post on another forum. I wonder if John would care to go into a little more detail about why he believes this. Do we think the United States Government, CIA and FBI, would tamper with the record and their documents during that time frame?

"...The most important implication of this story for JFK researchers concerns the manufacture of false documents. The CIA have not only been involved in destroying important documents, they have created false ones. Therefore, when Oswald’s CIA file is eventually released, should we really trust what it says. The general opinion will be that as the CIA have spent so much energy making sure the file is not published, it must be true. However, for cynics like me, I believe the file was tampered with soon after the assassination. I expect the same is also true of Oswald’s FBI file. ..." Tosh

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKindex.htm

Tosh:

I will patiently await your answers - no problem.  You've been great here, and I felt that it would be a good exercise for me and maybe even a bit helpful for you and others to see a boiled down version of "just the facts."  I've probably missed a bunch of things, but I even named a street or motel wherever you had.  Any corrections or additions to the distilled narrative would advance this synopsis, which as I say, you also might find helpful.  If it meets with your approval, it would be a framework for plugging in details.  Please let me know at least if you think the synopsis is a valid starting point for this thread.

Tim

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I think it would be a good starting place. However there are some rough parts that I think needs to be fleshed out and perhaps detailed a little. Over all its a good start.. I'll get back with you and work with you on that. I can now see where you obtained some of the information you have. It does need some clearification and expansion... but that can wait until next week... You might like to get with Larry and compare notes. I think that might help the forum members better understand why we are doing this......

Also, further work needs to be done on the south knoll picture. It has been said, by the athorites that I was not at that location in the Plaza that day ( I can prove by other sources currently employed with the Dallas P.D that I was in Dallas at least by 8A.M not far from Dallas Love Field. I call this my ace in the hole when the picture is confirmed and will explain this to you at a later date.

I have detailed this location to various law enforcement and private investigators for over 40 years, long before the picture ever surfaced. The fact that someone is there at that location would go a long way toward proving a federal cover-up on the "Abort Team" I can't figure why this is such a hard task.. to get law enforce or the private sector for that matter to use modern tech. and prove or dis prove if two people are there. I think Dallas P.D. should do it.. just for the record. I know damn well the FBI will not touch it. Tosh..

The following is my synopsis of Tosh Plumlee's story about his involvement in the assassination in Dallas.  If I have missed any particulars, please post them so that we can have a complete, but distilled version of the story.

Tosh Plumlee was a Military/CIA covert operative pilot who "knew John Roselli rather well."  They first met in late 1960 or early 1961 at Biscayne Park, after coming to the park from "a meeting place called Sloppy Joe's."  They were introduced by Johnny Farantello.  Plumlee later says "Farentino" (as opposed to "Farantello") "was maybe Frank Sturgis or whoever."  During 1963, Tosh flew Roselli "perhaps more than 6 or 7 different occasions, to such destinations as Marathon Key, Bimini, Havana, New Orleans, Houston, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas and Santa Barbara.

Beginning November 21, 1963 Tosh has asserted that he was a co-pilot on a top secret flight aboard a DC-3 supported by the CIA. The pilot was Emmanuel Rojas.  Mr. Plumlee's flight left Florida on November 21, 1963, traveling from a "place called Lantana" in West Palm Beach to Tampa, where Roselli ("the Colonel") was picked up after staying at the Congress Inn.  The plane then flew to New Orleans, where two people got off and three got on.  After flying to Houston International and spending the night at the Hilton, the plane and its occupants continued on to Garland, where they had to stop "because of weather."  After waiting for three of the passengers to be picked up by car at Garland, the plane continued on to Redbird Airport in Dallas, where everybody got off and "went their own way."

Plumlee was under the "impression" at that time that he was "flying a team into Dallas to abort the assassination and John Roselli was on board that flight as well as a couple of other Cubans and people that were connected with organized crime in New Orleans."  The CIA's information about the assassination arose from the interrogations of Cubans who had plotted to fire on Air Force One with a bazooka on November 17 in West Palm Beach.  At the briefing at Locksahatchie, it was "discussed where to go, how to abort, and what to look for."  They concluded that they "would probably be looking for a minimum of 19 or 20 people that would be in that Plaza."  The "instructions came through ... Robert Bennett and also Rex Beardsley." 

Plumlee and "Sergio," a man Plumlee describes as "a friend" but has not identified (Danny Sullivan?), were taken to a "safe house" next to the Oak Cliff Country Club on Bar Harbor Drive, then driven to Dealey Plaza, where they attempted to spot potential assassins from their position on the South Knoll.  Plumlee's original information was that "the attempt was going to be made outside the Adolphus Hotel. And for whatever reasons, it was changed at the last minute to the Dealey Plaza."

Sergio and Plumlee were attempting to evaluate the most logical places where shooters would be located, but "everything was all messed up, timing was off, people were not in... where they were supposed to be, the limited radio contacts that we had were not working." Plumlee had the impression of "4 or 5" shots, with one being fired from behind and to his left on the South Knoll.  While leaving via the train tracks Plumlee smelled gunpowder.  Plumlee didn't see Roselli, Nicoletti or Sturgis in Dealey Plaza, and hasn't provided the identity of any other person present (unless one counts "Gator," who was missing a finger from a bad alligator farm incident).

They "stopped in the parking lot at Ed McLemore's [sportatorium] and the driver had an extra change of clothes for both of us." They returned to the safe house, then to Redbird, where they "waited for two other people for about an hour maybe an hour and a half" and then left. Plumlee had thought that Roselli was one of the people they were waiting for, but Roselli did not return and the plane departed "pretty close to 2 o'clock."  On the plane were Plumlee, Rojas, Sergio, "a person by the name of Gator, and two other individuals that I didn't know."  Gator "did look like Bosch, also known as 'Gator,' who had a finger missing on his right hand" and a "large Adam's Apple," but this was later corrected to be "El Gato."

The people on the flight out of Dallas were very quiet.  Plumlee's interpretation of this is that "if these had been shooters or assassins themselves, I think they would have been very excited because they had carried it off. That's why I take issue with the fact that I ... CIA had anything to do with flying an attack team in."

Plumlee would later claim that he had known Oswald, first at Illusionary Warfare Training in Nagshead, North Carolina, then in Honolulu at a radar installation and at Wheeler Air Force Base, then in Dallas at an Oak Cliff safe house run by Alpha 66's Hernandez, out of Miami.

The debriefing was held in West Palm Beach by Rex Beardsley, Bob Bennett and Tracy Barnes, and according to Plumlee, "transmitted to field HQ, Miami to Bill Harvey, JMWAVE HQ., November 25, 1963." (despite Harvey having been replaced in January, 1963 by Desmond Fitzgerald.  Harvey's public farewell lunch in D.C. with Roselli was in June, 1963, after which Harvey was dispatched to Rome)

Questions

1. Where and when did Roselli get off the plane?  I have read 6:30 am at Garland, and "9:30, 10:00, maybe right around 11:00 it could have been" at Redbird.

2. How do you know that Charles Nicoletti was in Dallas?  In one interview, when asked if you had seen Nicoletti, you evaded a straight answer by saying, "It's been told to me, by federal investigators and private investigators, pictures and everything else, that he was there."  In another statement, you said, "It was the things that John Roselli had said about people that he was going to be meeting ... immediately made me think of the individual that I had in mind which later turned out to be identified as Nicoletti...." Roselli had referred to "Raven."

3.  What was the occasion of being "told by Tracy Barnes, John Martino, William 'Wild Bill' Harvey, and John Roselli shortly after the assassination, that David [Morales] was in Miami."?  If that conversation addressed Morales' absence from Dallas, what was said about Tracy Barnes?

4.  Didn't you even recognize the man holding the umbrella?

Tim

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Thank you Tim: These are very good questions and I will be happy to answer them the best I can. I will explain them in detail and explain why I know some things and why other matters are my observations and beliefs based on my being there and knowing most of the people in the past. As I have said I do not have all the answers, but I do have some of them and will be glad to share them. That is why I came on this forum. I want to know the questions of concern. As I said in an earlier post I got connected with the wrong people years ago on this subject matter and for that I am truly sorry. I hope to clearifie some things that have been said about me.. and things I never said or implied. It seems when I do not agree with some who have special interest, a DVD, a book, or some financial interest, then I am not what I say I am. I become a "dis-information expert and still work for the CIA... or I am a "Dick Head".

I wanted to get this to you and ask for time to get back on this and other questions along the same lines that Larry has forwarded to me. I do not want to be attacked and said I refuse to answer the HARD questions and ducked and ran and all that garbage that is not true and never was has been true.

As you can see I have been doing my best thes past few days to try and answer all the question presented to me. I have been at this for hours and days. However, I do have another life other than this Kennedy and blasck ops mess.

I have some corp. business to attend to in another state and will be back a week from Friday. Whikle I am on the road, I will rough out answers to the questions and have it for you and Larry, when I get back. Meanwhile keep diging and find some more questions that you would like to ask and I'll try. I'll do my best to answer them if I can... If I can't I will tell you... I have never said that I have all the answers. If I can't I will not try. So until then. Thanks for your interest and your questions they are valid and I feel should be addresed by me. Tosh Plumlee

Tosh,

Did you know Felipe Vidal Santiago? Would you rule him out as the guy by the Umbrella Man? And would you know if Vidal was in Dallas?

Ron

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Anything I could say on that would only be spuculation on my part. I did not know Santo, I knew of him but nothing spacific or factual. Was he a friend of Eden Pastora? Was he associated at the "Poco Solo" camp in CR about 1982-83?

Sorry Tosh

I tried to post an image for Terry Mauro but for some reason found it difficult to attach. For further discussions, I have made up the following and placed circles around areas of possible interest.

James

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Thanks James: This is a good uncroped picture and shows the overpass about ten seconds or so after the shots. Perhaps the people on the bridge all went to the northwest side of the underpass as the Limo went to Parkland.

None the less, I was told that "...nobody was on the bridge. (north or south) That era had been cleared by the Secret Service..." Ref; Denver FBI. Scott Warner SAC; Denver County Jail, Feb 1964 and again Colorado State Reformatory, Buena Vista Colo. March 1964. inmate# Plumlee #17581 March- Dec 1964. Denver Probation report investigation dated November, 1964 recordered in whitnessed by Wayne Patterson Warden Colorado State Reformatory, November 13, 1964 "... If you do not stop talking about what you think you know about the assassination, you will never get out of here..." sorry, I ramble... I'm old and tired...

I want to die like my grand dad.., in my sleep..,not like his screaming passenger in the back seat... Tosh

Tosh,

Tosh, I also went back to the black and white picture taken on the day of the shooting, where you were describing the exact areas where you and Sergio were standing to the left of the forked tree shadow and the pick-up truck. I could make out a figure wearing, what I perceived to be light-colored trousers, but had difficulty seeing the other person as clearly due to the grain of the picture and most likely due to the shadow that person was standing in at the time the picture was being shot. Therefore, when Tim posted this colored picture of a bird's eye-view of the plaza, I noticed how much thicker the trees themselves appeared to be, as if they'd had time to fill out, compared to the the black and white photo (that I believe Wim had posted) of the day of the shooting. I'm most appreciative of you pointing this out, as I was always under the impression that you were closer to the street and possibly in front of the structure of the overpass, instead of where, in reality, you actually were. I'd also like to thank Tim for putting up the color photo, and James and yourself for clarifying the year.

Terry

A picture is worth a thousand words. Here is the photo of the South Knoll. It would be helpful if Tosh could circle the precise location he's describing. I understand his estimation of the South Knoll shooter's location to be about 5 yards east of the underpass at the fence line. If that is not sufficiently precise, I hope Tosh will correct me, perhaps even with a circled location in the provided photo. Maybe when I'm there in a few weeks and taking a photo of the proposed South Knoll shooter's angle onto Elm St., I'll try out Tosh's audio experiment by yelling out "Bang bang bang" and have my wife tell me where the sound seemed to come from. For Dealey Plaza that probably wouldn't constitute strange behavior. . . .

Tim

Terry and Tim: If you look at the peak of the roof in the background and a little left of the pickup truck.., and IF there was a south knoll shooter.., he would be perhaps on the railroad tracks on in the parking lot, (in line with the peak of the roof or a little bit to the right of it left of the pickup) or mabe back into the lot near a parked car.

If you look at the left side of the picture above the man and the car roof in the shadows, that is where Sergio and I were standing. As you can see the Limo had already gone under the bridge and in the Bell picture there is a man standing about center of the overpass. I think he went to the otherside (west) to see the limo heading for Parklland Hospital.

I have said I think I was waring tan pants and a light , but I really do'n't remember for sure... we did have a clip board but I can't remember who was holding it..... I do not know how to draw a circle and get it posted.... well I should correct that.., I do know how to draw a circle, almost. I know more than most operatives. Tosh

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