Shanet Clark

Tim

thats a reasonable response. You are right McCord did Four years with the FBI and then 19 years with the CIA (I had it backwards) but

McCord did a lot of FBI work before he went to the OS, and he was a moralizer.

Nixon Campaign Chairman John Mitchell, Magruder and Liddy cooked up the Watergate burglaryand if the CIA knew about it in advance they did nothing to stop it, BUT

that is different from setting up the President by screwing it up.

It may be possible that they manipulated this, but most people who

have read the Watergate historiography find tons of blame falling on Mitchell, CREEP, Liddy, John Dean and very little to link Langley to it...It's ugly because McCord and Hunt had CIA backgrounds, and the Cubans were Bay of Pigs veterans...it has been debunked, but the possibility exists that CIA was more involved than we know...one reason I and other Watergate historians are eager to absolve the CIA is that that this is the major way Nixon's defenders take the heat off of him---the responsibility must rest somewhere, I think the impeachment was correct, and that NIXON - not the CIA - was the culpable party. The new theory is that the CIA was in on a blackmail/prostitution ring run out of the Democratic National COmmittee and that John Dean wanted the trick book that may or may not have had an entry for his wife, Maureen...lawsuits have raged over this, the book Silent COup makes this case....it is a reasonable approach; but really, the CIA frame of Nixon is not as compelling as the case against his own team, Mitchell, Liddy, et al. Whats weird is all the JFK 11/22/63 figures in the Watergate story, Hunt, Sturgis, Barker, etc....I will scan in and attach the McCord letter to Sirica with my next post.

Shanet

This is pathetic.....

shanet

Tim, John, Lee, Wim, et al...

In the book "The Torch is Passed" (1964) there is a large, good resolution photo by James Altgens showing the moment of ambush. There on the steps of the Texas Bookstore Depository is a man closely resembling the late Lee Harvey Oswald. I noticed this years ago. More recently I read where the fabric and missing button on the individual matched Oswald's attire that day. If Oswald worked there, it stands to reason he would have been out front watching the Presidential Motorcade, and this would be consistent with him being in the second floor lunchroom ninety seconds after the shooting. Could someone attach the photo and a good close-up for more discussion, maybe Lee Forman could do this? I lost my copy of "The Torch Is Passed" Commemorative volume, but it was a huge seller and the picture was reasonably clear. What have people said about this picture of Oswald?

Shanet

GENTLEMEN AND LADIES PLEASE!

If you want to discuss Judyth's situation please do so on an existing thread

we have 25 pages of threads already and some of them are full

or PERSONAL BACKBITING COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE MATERIAL

if you want to fight do it at the buried ends of the existing threads

Tim Carroll and I have been calling for more succinct and compelling material

You're ad hominem and obscure debate paints you as DISINFORMATION...

shanet

undefined

For a number of reasons: Provenance, Acoustics, Contamination, etc.

I have never put as much faith in the police tape as you all.

shanet

The Response directly above this refers to the full confession of BADGEMAN, the confession of Jimmy Sutton/Files available on Wim's site.

thanks again, I suggest new readers look at the confession before

trolling the threads because the confession of Jimmy Files answers many questions including the identity of

the Dal-Tex shooters and the grassy knoll assassin....

After viewing the site I would tend to side with Wim in any

slag-fest......................................Bulk Disinformation is readily available

but the heavy lifting and critical thinking is being done by people like Wim, Jim and Lee Forman.............

shanet clark

Thank you Wim, that explains a lot. I generally look for consistency, internal logic, external confirming details - motivation, opportunity, cohorts - This Jimmy Sutton/Files character is telling the truth. We're lucky to have this document, this is the big one.

John

When you say the Mafia, it is a specific cell of Giancana/Roselli killers who were hired by the CIA in the first place to whack Fidel Castro...These guys then turned on JFK and helped Dulles, Hunt and Landsdale do the dirty deed while Hoover sat on his hands. The mob could only send shooters, they couldn't get inside Bethesda hospital or influence the FBI's lame Warren investigation...the mob didn't make the Secret Service detour and drive at walking speed...House counsel Blakely leaned a little too heavily on the Mob Angle as an easy out for him---no need to pursue the CIA/Bay of Pigs crew if he pinned it on the mafia hit squad. Evidence? Giancana and Roselli got whacked CIA style with small caliber arms right before they were due to testify, and as Moonie said in his nephew's book "the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing" He had a deal with one part of the government and was getting prosecuted by another....great debate site.

Shanet

Lee

Great thread--I'll bring it back up to the top...

Eleven shots, that's reasonable...for a number of years I have believed there was a long "L" sniper ambush with three shooters and three back-up radio men, six principles. A team in the Dal-Tex, a team on the Book Depository ROOF and a team at the fence above the grassy knoll. The dal-tex shooters got the back shot and the head shot, the rooftop team got connally and fired off-range and the 'badgeman' team got in the initial throat shot and the right scalp shot, with the windshield (dashboard), Tague, grass (in photo) shot and stemmons sign shot coming from the two rear angles. Howard Hunt and Charles Harrelson look a lot like the photographed "bums", (and Harrelson confessed) then there is Frenchy, probably an Algerian hitman that David Ferrie flew out of the country, but who was on the roof and inside the Dal-Tex building? Mr. Sturgis and Mr. Ruby? We don't know---but thank you for quantifying the high number, I would hold at nine, three from each position....the activity at the railyard tower shows an elevated site co-ordinator and of course, the autopsy, ballistics and limousine were all so hopelessly scrambled, for instance the whole windshield and freeway sign switcheroo thing, and god only knows what happened to the Presidents skull and brain...but it was a bloody barrage, John Connally probably got hit twice, and poor John Kennedy four or five times (throat, back, back, head, head), etc. Conspiracy before, during, and after the fact.

Shanet

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Sorry, just read the transcript again---it does suggest that LBJ thought that Connally got in the way of a forward shot--that is something!

shanet

Ron, Steve

Thats the old 'the CIA set up Nixon' theory, and it has been THOROUGHLY debunked---Nixon, Mitchell, et.al tried to THROW OFF responsibility for Watergate onto the CIA, but Helms wouldn't play along. McCord and Hunt knew a lot and Nixon knew they knew a lot and much debate rages over what "Every Tree In the Forest Will Fall" (McCords' threat) meant...McCord basically trusted the judge more than the White House and he was a more of a boy scout than the Cubans and Hunt who took the money and stayed silent...McCord was lifer FBI and Hunt was lifer CIA---different culture. Read "A Piece of Tape" by James McCord (Private imprint 1974).

So Hoover told LBJ there were three hits: a JFK back shot, a JFK head shot and a Connally shot...this doesn't suggest Hoover was talking about a 'from the front' shot.

He's saying Connolly turned and took a bullet. The sidewalk shot and the necktie shot are not mentioned. The known miss (Teague) is what made Arlen Spector compress the JFK back shot and the John Connally shot (shots) into one impossible "Single Bullet" shot. The tape records Hoover feeding LBJ the cover story, and he was concealing the forward gunman.

shanet

John

Great article. So the Sullivan and Cromwell partners and Mr. John Foster Dulles were in the middle of the Brown Brothers Harriman activities involving Prescott Bush and Fritz Thyssen, I'm sure no one is surprised. These relationships survived WWII, and the German international chemical cartel was a tempting "bedfellow" for cynical American corporate executives from the 1920's until the present. For just one example, Eli Lilly held the US rights to German-patented barbiturates, in the late 1950s. Eli Lilly was George Sr.'s company and Bush Jr's OMB chief Mitch Daniels (as well as the Quayle family) benefitted from this immediate post war German-US chemical re-arrangement. Bayer, AGFA, BASF and the other I.G. Farben entities survived the war intact. Unlike their labor force.

The Guardian article was excellent, but I believe there is more to the Prescott Bush connection, involving classified airplane fuel patents, coal gasification and leaded fuels getting into German hands circa 1939...and this leads to DuPont, Standard Oil, Ritter, Dresser and Ashland Oil. The Germans were considered assets after the war and the international chemical cartel described by William Stephenson survived the war, especially in South America...touchy stuff, but the OPERATION PAPERCLIP Nazis went into US corporate R&D under multinational and CIA cover...and this is germane to any discussion of November 1963.

As Butch Cassidy said to Sundance; "Who are those guys?"

Shanet

Tim, thank you for the thoughtful analysis. I believe the Turkish trade-off was a big deal, too. The level of discourse on some of these threads is so abysmal I'm glad to hear from you. Dresden, operation Gehlen org/paperclip, the nuclear BIG GUNS strategy of Eisenhower, all this isolated and limited Kennedy's range of motion... serious historians now look at the John Birch Society in California in the 1960's as the root of the Reagan re-alignment, and of course BUSH I and BUSH II are products of secret, compartmentalized federal power stemming from a Texas petroleum power base... the events at Andrews Air Force Base and Bethesda Naval hospital after the assassination show us clearly that established government forces played a major role in the whole sad event....

Shanet

I am reading too many books............Oswald defected to USSR and came back.

If you think Oswald's trip to USSR was typical of a fake defector, you're mistaken (or reading too many books). In any case, the evidence points to other purposes.

A better term than the Military Industrial Complex would be "John Kennedy's militant reactionary political opposition"

OSWALD DIDN'T DEFECT????

He went to the USSR, disclaimed citizenship and waltzed back into the states!

Totally typical of a false defector program!!

Reality Check!! Rather than sidetrack us with mastoid details lets get this straight;

Oswald was a defector and a counter-defector........If he got VD in the line of duty he was approved for illicit sex, no penalty....in Japan, US Marines.

Remember Oswald's medical record shows he was treated for VD that he got in the line of duty...

Hi Shanet,

It does indeed show that. Trouble is, it is meaningless in terms of identifying Oswald as any sort of agent. Reason being that the military routinely called any injury or illness as being "in the line of duty" if the individual was able to return to normal duties on the same day as the medical treatment.

marine intelligence is a branch of naval intelligence, and this lowest grade asset defected re-defected and generally acted like a manipulated puppet of malign forces.

Oswald did not defect... ergo... no re-defection, either. Nor was he a part of any fake defector program.

LEGEND tells how deMorenscildt was watching MARINA, his wife who was daughter of a KGB colonel.......very interesting.

She was his neice, not daughter... and he was in the MVD, not KGB.

John-So, I am told the JFK assassination is not very important in twentieth centuryhistory. THen Also the french revolution adds nothing to our knowledge of the late eighteenth century and the assassination of Julius Ceasar is of no importance in discussions of Rome and the classical world--- a serious historian says so! the problem is the study of the Unspeakable Reality of Political Violence is not a way up the cozy academic ladder! So no one is learning any US History by studying Bay of Pigs, Hoover, Hunt/Sturgis, Dulles/cabell or Giancanna ROselli WHICH US HISTORY ARE YOU TALKIN ABOUT???

John.  This is a topic of great interest in popular history, but I tend to not use it much or use it at all even though it is in the heart of my major course of instruction, Twentieth Century history.

The reason I tend not to look to closely at this is that I find it difficult to argue historical significance of the assassination itself.  There is not a clear story line from the assassination to show any group on the historical radar getting great benefit out of JKF's assassination (other than the laws JKF supported that got passed in his name under the Johnson administration.

That aside, this looks like a great website.

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Thats a classic rundown, many were involved...Marrs came to a similar rogue's gallery of suspects....BOnar Menninger believes the Secret Service actually fired the headshot from the following car (with LBJ in it) that's fairly unlikely...those were the dal-tex shots.

John

Remember the Secret Service is part of the Treasury Department and Kennedy had put a notorious republican businessman in this sensitive cabinet position, Clarence Douglass Dillon. Everything about the Secret service performance, the detour, the walking speed, the delayed reaction to fire, everything flows from the C. Douglass Dillon angle........he was sort of Kennedy's Andrew Mellon.

One of the most important aspects of the Kennedy assassination concerns the security arrangements of the motorcade through Dallas. According to the Warren Commission the event was organised by two men: Kenneth O'Donnell (special assistant to the President) and Special Agent Winston Lawson. Although O’Donnell

GERALDO broke it out on latenight about the time of the HOUSE hearings, but the color saturation (film to video process) added nothing to the grainy second generation print---you couldn't tell much, then...s

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am under the impression that the first time the Zapruder film was shown on American television was in March of 1975 on Geraldo Rivera's 'Good Night America'.

However, the Z film was supposedly shown on Australian televison a month before that. Does anyone know anything at all about that particular screening?

Any information would be appreciated.

James

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Anybody get any pertinent new clues from the new digital video of the ZAPRUDER film? The area between the sprockets is now visible--- I watched it and saw walking speed motorcade, motorcycle cops veering off, JFK getting elbows up in response to .22 or flechette in the voicebox, connally turning, hit, then big headshot from unknown angle, scalp over right ear flapping, still walkingspeed, basically a ambush, hail of fire--watch connolly closely, he and JFK are getting drilled by a barrage at different times---Warren commission doesn't explain a good color version of this 8mm film..........

You're correct about the first formal TV airing of the Zapruder film.  However, bootleg copies of the film were shown in different places prior to 1975.  I was privileged to see one in NYC in November, 1964, in a small movie theatre on the lower East side.  It followed (silently) a presentation of the David Wolper black-and-white film "1000 Days", which was an upbeat study of the JFK presidency.  I was sitting in the front row, and was quite traumatized by seeing the film in such a manner.  Ironically, it later brought me into the study of the limousine, for this was where we saw JFK smiling comfortably before the shots were fired, and this was IMO where he died.

Pamela

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David Phillips always seemed a logical point man, along with Ed lansdale and Howard Hunt.

Would Phillips have planned the assassination? Or, could that have been Ed Lansdale?

Answer: both of them

The lie is possible, because the Zapruder film was bought by Time Life and kept lock and barrel from the public for 14 years. Time Life is founded and owned by Henry Luce, also a member of Skull and Bones. Luce had many friends, among them general Edward Lansdale, a known covert operative for the CIA. Henry's wife, Clare Booth Luce, Congresswoman, was a radical supporter of the Anti-Castro movement and personal friends with another high-ranking covert operative for the CIA and a resident from Fort Worth: David Atlee Phillips. Edward Lansdale and David Phillips are widely accepted as key planners of the JFK assassination. They are also exact matches for the "covert operations specialist" (Phillips) and the "top brass in military intelligence from Asia" (Lansdale) as described in Sam Giancana's biography "Double Cross" (to read the page click here).

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/images/463.JPG

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Remember Oswald's medical record shows he was treated for VD that he got in the line of duty...marine intelligence is a branch of naval intelligence, and this lowest grade asset defected re-defected and generally acted like a manipulated puppet of malign forces. LEGEND tells how deMorenscildt was watching MARINA, his wife who was daughter of a KGB colonel.......very interesting.

Captain Donabedian was called before the WC to explain Oswald's Marine

medical records.

This is from his testimony:

Captain DONABEDIAN - No; not offhand. He had a sore throat, which many boys

have in the service.He had a cold. And he had one other infection, otitis

media, in 1957.

Oswald had a mastoidectomy at 5.

Youth House reported partial loss of hearing in Oswald's left ear.

Otitis media is a very probable factor in learning problems including

dyslexia. Behavioral problems are also common in children with hearing

defects.

"Evidence strongly suggests that severe cases of recurrent acute otitis

media and persistent otitis media with effusion (OME) may impair hearing and

slow down language development and reading skills. Older children with

long-term mild hearing problems from undiagnosed or intractable conditions

can develop learning disabilities and behavioral and social problems."

http://wellness.ucdavis.edu/wellconnected/...fections78.html

I submit that Oswald's learning diability (whether it was dyslexia, or some

other disorder), and any behavioral problems were the result of recurrent

Otitis Media - which the mastoidectomy failed to rectify, and that there was

no psychiatric basis for his problems in NYC.

Should Oswald have been accepted into the Marines?

Having been accepted, should he have been medically discharged in 1957 when

Otitis Media was diagnosed?

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John Simkin and the Ed Forum:

As you know, my approaches to History includes strategic, cultural and climatic geography...

In this I follow the annales school of Marc Bloch and Fernand Braudel.

Textual and critical post-modern approaches have discouraged the study

of history's structural and strategic underpinnings,

but the new digital capacities and continuing interest in cartography and geographic factors can make a difference in history.

When I address the OAH or the state historical conferences,

My historical map lectures are very well received and my

strategic geographic reasons for cultural and political events always stimulates debate.

Finally I notice a number of USA universities want to teach

DIgital GEographic Systems, but need to bring in British Geographers because

of shortfalls in staffing pool of american geography Ph.D.'s

Did You Know That/ many British geographers are finding work in the growing geography departments in the states. The technology is driving the field as it diversifies from its strategic/mineral roots and climatology/weather training roots.

For example at Georgia State the Geography Department is the Anthropology/geograph department....state schools do better than the private universities..some private universities have no geography departments....shocking.

Shanet Clark, Woodruff fellow

Atlanta, Georgia State

is the University History Fellow active with the Organization of American Historians, American History Association , Southern Historical Association and National Council History Educators or the acronyms... OAH, AHA, SHA and NCHE summa cum laude BA GSU 2002. 42 years old. I have read heavily in legitimate intelligence and Watergate history. Should be able to offer sober reality checks, facts, citations, etc.