Shanet Clark
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1. "Only Yesterday"
2. "The Glory and the Dream" Wm Mancester
3. "Disraeli" Andre Maurois
4. "Detroit" Thomas Sugrue
5. "Democracy in America" Alexis de'toqueville
6. Anything by Eric Foner, especially "Reconstruction"
7. "Distinction" by Pierre Bourdieu
8. "America" by Alistair Cooke
9. Gore Vidal's "Burr" "Empire" "Lincoln" and "1876"
10. McCardell "The Idea of a Southern Nation"
11. "Miracle at Philadelphia" by Catherine Drinker Brown
12. "The Power Elite" C. Wright Mills
13. "The Organization Man"
14. Anything by Vance Packard
Shanet Clark, Woodruff Fellow of Southern History GSU Atlanta
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Thank you Jim
that is exactly the kind of rich factual detail this forum is known for.
Taylor did'nt emerge in se Asia -- he and his generation had strong WWII
experiences, and his emergence was earned in a merit based way.
But informal relations for recombining overseas, military and intel projects under army, corporate and proprietary cover, Maxwell Taylor made sweeping
allowances the norm, and did not give proper oversight,
even Britains conservative journalis Guenter Lewy states this.
This is also the era of systematic and gross overestimates of the Soviet
national economy, technology level and military readiness.
Chronic and fateful overestimation. Political manipulation of joint staff plans.
This set the stage for weak oversight of FOIB and weak oversight of
National Security Council and Advisor.
I.E. Havoc, as we had under Nixon/Kissinger/Haig
Havoc under Tenet, havoc under poindexter and casey, havoc....etc to today...
shanet
ShanetIn Col. Aaron Bank's book, "From OSS to Green Berets," a discription of the role played by Taylor in the development of this group of professional soldiers is given.
The Green Beret training first began at Ft. Bragg (Edwin Walker was stationed at Bragg at the time) and (several years later) when fully established as a seperate unit was then called the 7th Special Forces Group. The "Honor and the Heritage" of the First Special Services Force (a unit that had been commanded by Col. Walker) was passed to Col. Edwards in a special two day ceremony in 1960. All the former members of the FSSF were invited to this ceremony (guest of Honor being Maj. Gen. Robert Frederick, the first force commander).
Colby was an easy convert to this type of operation, having been a member of the 99th Battalion (later commanded by Walker) who was recruited to the OSS. As a matter of fact some 100 men from the 99th went to the OSS.
You also must not forget that Maxwell Taylor is well known for his covert mission to Rome during WWII to negotiate the surrender of Italy. His fearless activity behind enemy lines brought great praise from Eisenhower and led to his promotion to the command of the "Screaming Eagles" for the initial D Day assault. (Maxwell Taylor was the 1st US General in France during the invasion of Normandy)
Taylor pushed for "Ranger" training during the Korean War (Walker was in charge) and continued to push for "Special Forces" that could operate behind enemy lines throughout his career.
Jim Root
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Sorry, I'll have to miss this event.
Best wishes, though, travel safely.
Shanet
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This thread sucks
shanet
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deleted
The birchers were the sincere true believers,
and Edwin Walker was their man..
creepy
MAXWELL TAYLOR 1965-1969
The Joint cheif and FIOB the foreign intelligence oversight board chairman.
Well, that says a lot, Joint Chiefs and FOAIB for the President, Johnson.
General Taylor was a crucial linchpin in the 1960's
era loosening of relationships between the CIA and Defense.
Operation Phoenix and general commando ops were smoothly
fronted and supported by armed forces, under the
political leadership of Taylor (Guenthr Lewy, America in Vietnam 1974).
Taylor was crucial to the new easy front interface of military and covert civilian ops, and he set the stage for a series of exposes (Colby, Church, Rockefeller) of proprietaries and illegal domestic MI and CIA activities, runaway illegalities...
Taylor was a Cabinet Level advisor as described in the 25th amendment.
He and Marshall Carter inherited the censored and classified system from
the WWII generation of General Marshall and Mark Clark, and ran it into a mixed and poorly compartmentalized "rogue Elephant" with high classificatory and surveillance and self-proclaimed executive domestic prerogatives.
The Vietnam War's top political General Maxwell Taylor is on the short list, here, for our purposes, in this context.
Shanet
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Jules
Col Fletcher Prouty addressed the situation from his unique point of view.
He knew that without courtroom rules of evidence, the false trail could grow
without end. He had flown Chiang Kai-scheck into the big three conference with
Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt at Tehran I believe.
He was ordered to the Antarctic South Pacific
right before 11/22/63 and he read the November 23 Christchurch New Zealand paper about Lee Harvey Oswald.
Investigating Atsugi, the radio frequency radar skills and knowlege of Oswald, the defection, counter-defection and provocative
acts of Oswald, this US intelligence veteran became a strong critic of the
Warren Commission...and states clearly that Col. Lansdale was involved
Was the Francis Gary Powers 1960 U2 spyplane over Russia shot down because of air radio/radar frequencies provided by Oswald to the Soviets?
A reasonble question.
A counter-intelligence plan is an unpredictable and counter-intuitive field...........
Shanet
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Tosh
We are all looking forward to your long signed statement.
Vernon's reputation is below comment.
You have a lot of credibility.
Thanks for working with us all.
Shanet
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Shanet,
I try to keep an open mind to all possibilities. My opinions on the Tramps has evolved over the years and one thing I will say is that I agree the Tall Tramp was Charles Harrelson.
I do not believe Harrelson was a part of the assassination team itself but as an actor. Kind of an irony given what his son attempts to do with varying degrees of success.
I do not believe the Old Tramp was Holt. FWIW.
James
James
Thanks for a straight answer on the three tramps identity.
You think Charles Harrelson is strong, and Chauncey Holt less so.
Wim has a lot invested in Holt, very committed to that, and he does look like the old bugger in the films...Howard Hunt resembles him less than Holt, but Holt's story ...not so compelling. Well, you know Woody Harrelson was a great National League shortstop, Cardinals or Cubs, I think...Charles named his kid (tv.cheers) after the baseball player...but Charles Harrelson confessed...
What do you mean Look-alikes? I thought they were the principal players gathered to witness and participate...back on Main Street where it was safe and the parade was supposed to go through...we'll hear about the group gathering during the online conf....like mccord and barnes, lookalikes?
shanet
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Hi Shanet,
The guy in the bottom row of photos I had wrongly assumed was the 'Frenchy' tramp. Never mind, we move on.
The corner where our look-a-likes positioned themselves is about a block away if I haven't confused myself completely.
I guess this is an example of taking for granted identifcations made by others. I will try not to make that mistake again.
James
Keep bringing on the good photo evidence...what do you thnk of Holt's story about being up in the railway car with a radio and the other two tramps?
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John
As you know, my approaches to History includes strategic, cultural and climatic geography...
In this I follow the annales school of Marc Bloch and Fernand Braudel.
Textual and critical post-modern approaches have discouraged the study
of history's structural and strategic underpinnings,
but the new digital capacities and continuing interest in cartography and geographic factors can make a difference in history.
When I address the OAH or the state historical conferences,
My historical map lectures are very well received and my
strategic geographic reasons for cultural and political events always stimulates debate.
Finally I notice a number of USA universities want to teach
DIgital GEographic Systems, but need to bring in British Geographers because
of shortfalls in staffing pool of american geography Ph.D.'s
Did You Know That/ many British geographers are finding work in the growing geography departments in the states. The technology is driving the field as it diversifies from its strategic/mineral roots and climatology/weather training roots.
For example at Georgia State the Geography Department is the Anthropology/geography department
....state schools do better than the private universities
....some private universities have no geography department....shocking.
Shanet Clark, Woodruff fellow
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Tim, Ron
I think you're getting ahead of yourself. He was in the lobby of the Texas state bookstore facility and bought a standard physics lab text. Not very suspicious. Why not a retail interface? It was a big bookstore/depot.
Arnold Rowland saw a gunman, heard fire in three rounds, and ran circles around Gerald Ford and Arlen Specter... Spector doesn't even appear to know what a thirty ought six is.
We are treated to the amusing fact of Gerald Ford trying to trip up a witness who uses triangulation to measure and physics to testify on acoustics.
No return fire.
He tells the Warren Commission that the Dealey Plaza gunfire didn't include any defensive return fire from the 1963 Secret Service.
Six to eight seconds is a long time to drive slowly through an ambush. The missing Zapruder frames are trying to speed up a limo that slowed to walking speed for a twelve second triple barrage, with no return fire, or securing of parade route windows.
Great Post
Shanet
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A correction from Gary. The film was shot from the northeast corner of Elm & Houston.
Thanks to all.
James
James, so it is at
Elm and Houston a good while after the shooting.
Do you think the man in the jacket looks like the Harrelson/Sturgis figure?
His jacket looks too short in this photo, and where are his buddies?
So I agree with Wim, this isn't really a Three Tramps photo.
Isn't the crowd there still lined up, wasn't that the corner that had
tracy barnes and des fitzgerald "cognates" garry hemmings, you have makes on
a bunch of known "miami/mexico city station" types right there at 12.30,
on the turn between Main Elm and Houston, the fatal detour, don't you?
Shanet
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The unmaking of the president 2004 began on September 11 2001. By September 10, George Bush's poll numbers had reached 50%, the lowest of any president....
From the start, Bush ran a government based on secrecy, handed over the departments and agencies to more than 100 industry executives and lobbyists appointed to key positions, and exhibited belligerence towards anyone who raised a question.....Bush wrapped his radical agenda in the cloak of commander-in-chief. ...implement Karl Rove's ambition of a one-party state and the neo-conservatives' plan for an American imperium.
The conservative wish-list came off the shelf. Civil liberties were curtailed in the Patriot Act, extremists were nominated as federal judges, environmental protections ravaged..........
The mid-term elections of 2002 ratified Bush's hyper-radicalism....
The testimony of Richard Clarke, former counterterrorism chief, that the Bush administration had been indifferent to terrorism, shattered the atmosphere of silent obedience. His truth-telling encouraged the revolt of professionals throughout the national security bureaucracies - the CIA and other intelligence services, the military, and the State Department. Then the rationales for the war crumbled when no WMD were found.......
Suddenly, the Democrats came to life, ...Howard Dean, but with his stumbles........instead to John Kerry.
From March and through the early summer, Bush's campaign spent more than $100m sh operation, he outsourced the smears .......
All he had to do was finesse the debates. But he was humiliated in all three.
The "war president" has fallen victim to his own hubris. As Thucydides wrote: "To conceive extravagant pretensions from success in war is to forget how hollow is the confidence by which you are elated. For if many ill-conceived plans have succeeded through the still greater fatuity of an oppo nent, many more, apparently well laid, have on the contrary ended in disgrace."
The Republicans desperately cast out ploys to suppress these voters, many of them African-American. In the end, the American people refuse to be frightened into becoming an unrecognisable nation that disdains, as the Declaration of Independence said, "a decent respect to the opinions of mankind".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,...1337485,00.html
Sidney Blumenthal is accurate as far as he goes,
and I highlight main points which I agree with.
The neoconservative agenda was to reverse the strategic results 1979, the
Fall of the Shah. I link the aggressive Iraq pre-emptive war effort to the Carter administration's notorious "loss" of the Shah of Iran as air/ground ally to the Radical Students of the Ayatollah Khomeini in 1979.
Without the great Soviet counterweight on the north border, the strategic Iran-like ground base can be regained.
Mr. Helms would be pleased.
Jimmy Carter's "loss" of the Shah sets the stage for
Cheney and Rumsfeld view
of the strategic ground game in the middle east - they saw a status quo ante visavis the 1978 Carter administrations relationship to the Shah -
in Iraq as a goal for Bush II.
The Shah in the early 1970's had cooperated with Libya Muammar Khadafi and Iraq's Saddam Hussein (protege's of Nasser) in the oil price hike.
Jack Anderson (FIASCO 1976) shows the Nixon administration weak and poorly united in addressing the commodity price re-arrangements which Carter and Ford inherited, the inflation which destroyed them both.
The Middle East with allies only on Israeli and Saudi bases was too 'weak' and a return to the Pre-1978 situation was the burning desire of neoconservatives, and after the cold war ended, the Iran Iraq area became a less globally volatile place, (ie no nuclear or US/USSR war would now follow).
Iraq with its notorious bogeyman Saddam Hussein became a pretext for the strategic return of Iran 1978 style US Middle East presence.
Reversing of all things Carter, fear of conservation, cabinet turnover or environmental law on the domestic level is overshadowed by the neoconservatives willingness to commence and initiate aggressive war to turn the clock back to the good old days of the shah of iran as our western US air/ground ally in the Middle East.......
Shanet Clark
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Look how the Lansdale character has squeezed past a policeman,
into a tight fence position, close enough to whisper or even take a
handoff from the tramps. Like I said, no civilian could get exactly there,
The slope shoulder is the big Lansdale identifier, and signet ring.
Holt says there is a high fidelity crystal radio tuner scanner in the
paper bag. Were they a reserve team of observer/back up patsies?
Radio/gunman/lookout team?
Where they really in a boxcar from 12:30 to 2:30?
Shanet
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James
My estimate would be around the Dallas Textile building,
somewhere in the vicinity of the Elm/Houston/Main area.
White granite corner building is a landmark.
Does Robardeau have an orange firetruck being used for crowd control?--
that is the major landmark.
Notes: Crowd of seventy people in twenty yard span--parade route.
The Fire truck is visible, with a dallas [?] squad car and an unmarked white sedan.
Three men with their back to the camera.
The crew cut looks familiar...can't tell much though.
Shanet
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They're KNEELING
They're bloody MUSLIMS
They're facing bloody MECCA they are!
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Mac Wallace?
Shanet,
John's got a good page on Wallace.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKwallaceM.htm
James
Yes that is a good page.
I haven't read the book, but I read the website and saw the TV version.
So apparently Ed Clark co-ordinated Mac Wallace, LBJ's hit man.
Barr McClellan says it is all on file in a legal office safe, with LBJ's papers.
Shanet
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When considering the confessions of Charles Harrelson, Jimmy Sutton/Files, Tosh, Chauncey Holt, Arce, etc., please give a thought
to some recent psychological experiments on memory...
Journal of cognitive MEMORY 1/2004 :
”Where a lie becomes the truth:
The effects of "self-generated misinformation" on eyewitness memory “
[Excerpt of Research Paper by K. L. Pickle,Ph.D.]
Dr. Pickle writes:
This research investigated whether generating misinformation impairs memory for actual information….
Experiment I.
Those who fabricated a description … remembered fewer correct derails than did truthful witnesses or those who fabricated about another person. Witnesses who fabricated about robber also reported more incorrect details than did truthful or non-interviewed witnesses….
Experiment 2.
Witnesses who fabricated about the robber also reported as poorly on the memory test as did witnesses who answered questions using false information prepared for them. …In both experiments deceptive witnesses sometimes reported invented details on the memory test. This is suggesting that they may have come to believe some fabrications, or misinformation.
‘People lie to us eight hours a day.
Evervbody lies to us: offenders, victims, witnesses. They all lie to the police.”
(Chicago police officer interviewed by Fletcher. 1991, p.255)
In her behind-the-scenes examination of the work lives of Chicago law enforcement personnel, journalist Connie Fletcher found that police are aware that the people they interview during crime investigations may deliberately give them false information. …
There is a psychological term known as the ‘misinformation effect” (e.g.. Bekeñan & Powers, 1983; Beth, 1989: Ccci, Ross. &Togha, 1987; Loftus, Miller, & Burns. 1978; McCluskey & Zaragoza. 1985).
Witnesses first observe some event, which may be presented either on videotape, as a slide sequence, or as a live, or staged event.
At some point afterwards, witnesses in the “Misled” condition (but not in the control condition) are exposed to misleading information related to the event.
The final step in the procedure is to test witnesses’ memory for the original event.
Usually, some proportion of the witnesses given misleading information will report details consistent with that information on the memory test.
One interpretation of these results is that misled witnesses sometimes commit a ‘source monitoring error (Lindsay, 1990, 1994; Lindsay & Johnson, l9S9 Zaragoza & Lane, 1994. 1998). That is, a memory derived from one source (the postevent information provided by the experimenter) is misattiributed to another source (the witnessed event) or is attributed to both sources.
Errors can occur even if the post-event data clearly refers to a separate incident rather than the witnessed event, at least as long as two accounts are similar and contain similar details… (Allen & Lindsay, .1998). This interpretation is based on the work of Johnson and her colleagues (see Johnson. Hashtroudi. & Lindsay. 1993). who proposed that memory representations include perceptual, contextual, emotional, and semantic information that reflects the nature of the encoding environment and that may be used by the rememberer to determine the source of a memory. Source attributions are usually made swiftly and without conscious awareness, although systematic or strategic processes
such as judging whether a source attribution seems plausible in light of other knowledge may also be used. Many times the attribution will be accurate.
Sometimes however, errors will occur, especiallv if the source cues are not clearly
remembered. Or if the cues related to two different source sources, are similar, or if the source attribution is made hurriedly. A monitoring framework can explain how witnesses might confuse information provided to them by two different external sources the witnessed event, and the “researcher”. “monitoring errors” Johnson, Foley, and Leach’s (1988) finding that participants where a confederate say some words and imagine that confederate saying other words may be unable to determine whether a particular word was actually heard or merely imagined. In another study, participants’ estimates of the number of times they had seen a picture increased with the number of times that they had imagined the picture, especially for participants who were classified as “good imagers” (Johnson, Raye. Wang. & Taylor, 1979). Other research shows that when adults imagine in detail childhood events that they initially said they probably never experienced, their confidence that the events actually occurred inflates (Garry, Manning. Loftus, & Sherman, 1996). Similarly, adults instructed to create mental images of fictitious childhood events sometimes eventually “remember” these events (e.g., Hyman & Pent- land, 1996; Porter, Yuille, & Lehman, 1999).
Hyman and Pentland suggested that the process of imagining a false event may lead to the creation of plausible and vivid details connected with the event, which in turn increases the chance of a reality monitoring error.
This hypothesis meshes with the finding that inducing witnesses to visualise a post-event narrative enhances the misinformation effect (Carris, Zaragoza. & Lane; Cited in Lindsay. 1994).
And never-experienced events can also be “remembered” and colleagues invented.
K. L. Pickle, Ph. D. 2004 MEMORY (excerpt from the introduction)
(((some recently published psychology on lies, lying and remembering.)))
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The military industrial complex, the CIA (rogue elements, Bush, Phillips, Lansdale, Cabell, etc), the Mafia, LBJ, J. Edgar Hoover, Texan Big Oil (Hunt, Murchison, Richardson, John De Menil, Byrd, Mecom, Bush), anti-Castro Cuban exiles, were all in this together. (Wim)
[[[[John, I am with Wim On this general picture...this is the CONSENSUS GROUP]]]]
I cannot conceive of all these organizations coming together to conspire to kill the president of the United States. They would know that it would only take one organization to betray the operation (and they all had good reason to hurt other organizations in the cabal).
[[[[i HATE TO CONCEIVE OF IT EITHER--Shanet}}}}
It is true that there is evidence to link all these groups and individuals to the assassination. ( !! ) However, that is not surprising as it was part of the original conspiracy to provide evidence that linked the assassination to these groups. This was done for two reasons: (1) to confuse the investigators and (2) to ensure that these groups participated in the cover-up.
{{{{TOO complex by far, a giant frame up!
Who can frame LBJ and Des Fitzgerald and J Edgar Hoover??}}}}}
This problem has been emphasised by the desire of some researchers to believe every bit of evidence that emerges that links any individual or organization to the assassination. This problem is made worse by linking all these evidence together. This results in developing a theory that says all these organizations were working together in a plot to kill JFK.
{{{{{Super-ordinal cause, where the Cabinet and VP were responding to Intelligence Report of Incapacity by JFK? WHAT IF IT WAS POLICY...a "finding"}}}}}
One of the reasons for this confusions is the failure to separate the plot and the cover-up. It is indeed true that several organizations were involved in the cover up. However, they were not working together on this. Each organization was seeking to protect itself. The original conspirators knew this would happened. That is the reason why they were implicated in the plot in the first place.
{{{{{{too complicated, denies agency to the participants.
athey weren't tricked into complicity,
they were participants and complicit accomplices.
Why? Because they were under orders from the Cabinet level political opposition
to John Kennedy, men willing to use their political offices and power baswes
for a coup detat under color of law.}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Wim, if you really believe all these groups were involved in the plot to kill JFK, you will need to explain how it was organized. I don’t mean I want to hear about the evidence (I know all about that), just the practical details of how it was organized.
{{{{{{{TOP DOWN, Chain of command as seen in 25th amendment, Alpha 66
zero rifle and guatamala...}}}}}}}}}
In Cronies, renowned investigative reporter Robert Bryce illuminates how Texas turned its vast energy resources into political power, and how a small group of Texas corporations, lawyers and politicians use that power to protect and defend their own economic interests. Through an absorbing narrative that moves from the days of the oil boom, through the rise and reign of LBJ, to today, Bryce profiles the Texans and the Texas corporations who have wielded-and continue to wield-great power in America's domestic and foreign policy, including the Bushes, James A. Baker III, Halliburton, Baker Botts, Ray Hunt, Bell Helicopter, and more. He shows how massive transfers of wealth from the rest of the country to Texas have allowed the state to prosper. Cronies demonstrates how George W. Bush is the living embodiment of Texas' crony networks, and how those networks continue to play critical roles in the 21st century. (Lee)
I am convinced by this theory. I think that there is a good possibility that these wealthy Texas individuals provided some of the funding for the assassinations. However, I find it difficult to believe that these individuals would come anywhere near the plot itself. They would never have compromised themselves in anyway. A leading member of the Military Industrial Complex would have employed a paymaster to deal with Morales. In turn, the paymaster would have had dealings with these wealthy individuals in Texas. The fund might have been called “The Campaign Fund to Elect a Democrat President in 1964” (shades of Watergate here). However, these individuals would not have known any details of the plot. Or if it actually involved an assassination (probably thought it was part of a smear campaign). All they knew is that it involved LBJ becoming the next president of the United States. It is not even certain that the paymaster would have known what the money was for. All he knew was that Morales was being paid a large sum of money that had some connection to LBJ becoming the next president. I would not be surprised that part of Morales brief from the person who recruited him was to arrange for the death of the paymaster. It would be an interesting exercise to see which right-wing figure linked to the Military Industrial Complex died in the weeks following the assassination.
{{{{{{{{{It happened in texas, a texan benefitted but it was not initiated for this group alone.}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
John: Congratulations on your fine web offering -- a stellar addition to the ranks. That said, I've got to cast my lot with Wim in the current discussion on who killed JFK -- there are other options to consider aside from single-element thesis (i.e. CIA or FBI or Cuban Exiles or Mafia, etc.) It has been well-documented that these organizations and factions did and do not operate independently of one another. Dulles of the CIA could put out a call to Maheu of the Mil-Ind complex, who could put out a call to Roselli of the Mafia, which could connect with the Cuban exiles, who were connected with the CIA. (Bob Cox)
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Exactly, acting on orders from people like allen dulles, clarence dillon and cartha deloach....}}}}}}}}}}}}}
It is definitely true that the CIA worked closely with the Mafia in the various Executive Action programmes (something that JFK tried to stop). The CIA also definitely funded anti-Castro organizations and the FBI worked closely with extreme right-wing political groups. However, I do not believe these organizations were linked together in planning the assassinations.
David Morales planned the assassination. He was a CIA agent but this was not a CIA operation.
{{{{{{{{{{That link would be hard to
substantiate today. Or rather DE-LINKING}}}}}}}}}
Morales in turn recruited men who had worked for the Mafia (Herminio Diaz Garcia, John Martino) but it was not a Mafia operation. He also employed members of the anti-Castro Cuban community (Antonio Veciana, Eladio del Valle) but it was not a Alpha 66 operation. Although we can speculate, we will never know the name of the organization behind the assassination. Morales was the cut-out. Once he died in 1978 this became impossible to know.
As the KGB officers that had infiltrated the CIA were controlling Senator Barry Goldwater, an intelligence officer that they had targeted for political office, it made it look very much like the Military Industrial Complex was culpable. This is not a theory, it's a fact. (Tony Frank)
I would be very interested in hearing about these facts. I think it would be highly unlikely that Goldwater was a KGB officer. There is no evidence that the KGB worked in this way. The best evidence for the way the KGB worked concerns the UK. The KGB recruited left-wing, idealistic students in the UK in the early 1930s. They were then ordered to cease all left-wing activity. These men renounced their left-wing beliefs and then joined neo-fascist organizations. The did this because they knew how MI5 recruited its agents. They liked people from an establishment background who held neo-fascist views. They thought they were particularly safe with men who had flirted with left-wing ideas at university (they were the ones who appeared to be the most passionate in their hatred of communism). This is how they got people like Harold (Kim) Philby, Guy Burgess, Donald Maclean and Anthony Blunt into the British secret service.
I assume the KGB would have taken a similar approach in the United States. That is why is utterly ridiculous when right-wing political leaders have pointed figures at left-wing figures in the United States and accused them of being KGB agents. The real agents would have been people who appeared to have been non-political (although their would have been evidence of them being active in right-wing politics in their youth).
There is no evidence that Goldwater did not really believe what he said. In fact, if one looks at his background he had good reason to believe what he said. It would have been impossible to have “turned” Goldwater. They would have concentrated on the type of figures they recruited in the UK. Although, it has been said, that the KGB viewed the USA different from the UK. It was claimed that the best way to recruit KGB agents was via money rather than ideology. However, that was a risky business, as this sort of spy sells himself to the highest bidder. I don’t think Goldwater was in any need of money.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{Ive stated the same elsewhere, }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Can you also answer my question in the thread on Harrelson? (Wim)
As you know, we have this discussion several times about James Files. However, I will address it again.
My information is that James Files might well have been involved in the cover up of the assassination of the JFK. We also know that the conspirators successfully implicated his close friend, Charlie Nicoletti, in the assassination. However, I am told that Files was not recruited by David Morales to take part in the actual assassination. That involved Herminio Diaz Garcia (and others I am not allowed to mention). When it come down to it, you will believe your informants, and I will believe mine. However, my informants are not attempting to seek fame and money from their exploits. Nor are they in prison. These are some of the many reasons why I find their information more believable than of others so keen to confess their role in the assassination of JFK.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Herminio Diaz Garcia and David Morales are not the top of the chain of command they are at the bottom!
Even if you know who this team is it doesn't change all the other co-ordinated
events, this was a large and lengthy project, with highest authority, short of the Oval Office, by self appointed keepers of the Oval Office.
I respect John simkin very much, but my comments are along the lines of Ron Ecker, Wim, AJ and many other interested critical thinkers, this goes up, up, up
and involves many, many people both criminal and clearanced, following orders.
shanet}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
If Barr McClellan can seriously charge Lyndon Johnson with this assassination, I would hasten to add three significant points-
Lyndon Johnson participated and benefitted, but did not initiate or co-ordinate the murder in Dallas, it was brought to him as a fait accompli which he accepted - which is different from a plan to save Lyndon from the Bobby Baker and Billie Sol Estes scandals...
If Lyndon Baines is seriously engaged, I insist on reviewing Clarence D. Dillon's actions as Treasury Secretary and behaviour as the top of the 1963 Secret Service's command structure.
When I say militant reactionaries killed John F. Kennedy, I don't mean low level criminals and mercenaries: I am talking about people in high offices, like Douglas Dillon, J.E. Hoover and Maxwell Taylor, men like Robert Lovett and Allen Dulles...
The 25th amendment sheds light on the VP and Cabinet secretary's role.
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http://www.ajweberman.com/
Like Jack White, Weberman believes that the tramps are Sturgis, Christ and Hunt.
I say they are Holt, Rogers (Montoya) and Harrelson
Wim
That's the way it shapes up........
The big tramp strongly resembles both Sturgis and Harrelson.
BUT Sturgis Fiorini was a darker man than the sheepish big anglo tramp.
The young tramp strongly resembles Mr. Christ, with his pointy nose.
The older tramp strongly resembles Hunt, but looks more like Chauncey Holt.
I would be interested in a photographic comparison of Chauncey Holt vs. Howard Hunt. I am less familiar with Rogers (Montoya).
Some theorize the Christ/Rogers(Montoya) tramp is a French nationalist
assassin for the OAS, along the lines of the fictional "Jackal" i.e. Frenchy.
It is assumed that David Ferrie or someone like Tosh hustled the french oas hit man out of the country.
I have seen video of Harrelson being confronted with his lookalike,
and he later admitted (from jail) to being the big tramp.
He is a Giancana made-man, and the actor woody harrelson's father.
Weberman cites an expert who finds the TEAM of Hunt and Sturgis to
resemble TWO of the three tramps compelling, more than individual I.D.'s would.
AJs material is dated, I tend to believe Wim's theory that the tramp is
Holt, but strongly doubt his story.
Why the big show of marching them under guard across the Plaza,
if no arrest was made? Was Lansdale in the middle of it?
Holt's story of sitting in a train car with a receiver and saying "we're federal agents" to the Dallas police doesn't ring true to me.
What is going on here?
Holt's comments have some common ground with Tosh's story,
but read like someone with only second hand information.
Weberman claims to have Solved the JFK murder by naming
Christ, Hunt and Sturgis....while our colleague Wim claims 'JFK murder solved'
because of the confessions of Holt, Files (and Harrelson).
murky, important, perplexing.
I think they were gunmen, and I no longer find the Hunt Sturgis OAS team
as strong or stronger theory than the Holt, Harrelson theory, but would
be eager to learn the sense of the Forum and see more photo comparisons,
especially of Chauncy Holt and (Montoya) circa 1963.
WHo is the Young Tramp, Frenchy?
What does the perp walk tell about Dealey plaza that day?
Shanet
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Fellow Forum Members---
Chauncey Holt claims to be the tramp that is often identified as E. Howard Hunt.
His statement can be read at
http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/holt1.htm
Is this disinformation? Does the story make sense?
I was on AJ Weberman's website last night,
and although I reject much of AJW's tactics and approach,
he has posted a fairly High Resolution series of about eight
'Tramp Photos.' Look at the photos and read the confession.
I'm sure many of you have evidence against the Holt material.
Weberman also shows a larger format picture of the
Dallas cops, the three tramps, and the man identified as
counter-insurgency expert Col. Ed Lansdale. The Lansdale
character is positioned between the tramps the cops and the fence
in such a way that no citizen would have been allowed to be there,
adding to the strength of that case.
I dont have AJ's URL but Google his Coup Detat in America site
and find the photographic evidence.
(AJW also presents pretty good photo evidence for a second "ringer"
Mannlicher/Carcano rifle being in play, as the serial numbers look different.)
Shanet
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Mac Wallace?
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The real model for Roselli's relationship with the Dulles people was Lucky Luciano, not dutch schultz or lepke (morons) Charles Luciano knew how to play the Feds, am I right? He took WWII contracts to keep the longshoreman together. He had the goods on John Edgar Hoover and Roy Cohn. He got cushy neopolitan exile rather than life imprisonment in the US c. 1960. John's from Britain and his Spartacus material is comprehensive, but I don't think he wants to see how intertwined the mafia and CIA really were. They were the same thing, the same guys, like Roselli...........
HITMEN, WHERE DO WE GET EM???
shanet clark, saturday night
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Tim,
you have the facts, I was just giving my impression.
It appears a SS protection agent drops back because
of tactical orders and the simple physical impossibility of
mounting the presidential limousine.
great clip.
shanet
Kenny O'donnell, no matter what specific call he may have set in place,
was certainly not a co-conspirator in JFK's murder.
He was his closest personal aide, friend and west wing assistant.
by agreeing with jack's desire to be close to the public, and
by unwittingly signing off on TREASURY SECRET SERVICE
suggestions, he may have put the President in danger unconsciously.
He was basically Jack's runner, fixer and advance man.
shanet
George Bush: Pre-Modernist Politician?
in Political Debates
Posted · Edited by Shanet Clark
Why is the Deficit off the voters' Radar?
What happened to the Business Model of State?
This is truly awful.
Reagan, nitwit and "big picture" guy waited for the Soviets to come to him,
and they did...but he largely refrained from instigating
War...in Nicaragua or anywhere else larger than the mythical liliput, Grenada.
This is a whole different bag....
Kerry did pretty well. he held the Gore states. No major gaffes. Bush took the rural and suburban counties. the November 4th New York Times had blue and red counties. Memphis, Atlanta, New orleans, were southern blue cities. Bush won some cities, Salt Lake City, Dallas, Phoenix, but Kerry took El Paso Brownsville and Las Vegas. We have a replay of 2000 but with shades of 1860... its really Lincoln verson Breckinridge/DOuglas, the race card has been played.
The democrats need to win a southern state next time. Gore couldn't carry Tennessee. Edwards couldn't carry North Carolina. John Rockefeller should have pumped 10 million into West Virginia. West Virginia went for Mondale, Dukakis and McGovern, but turned RED. Ohio turned Red, the southern rural "thing" they have down in West Virginia and Indiana pincered in Ohio.
Of course the Bush family had industrial interests in Ohio , back before the Union Pacific and Brown Bros. Harriman days...
The Well Informed Party was defeated by the Less Well Informed. States went for Bush by inverse of SAT scores. Authority, fear and security trumped "liberalism" and civil rights...
Rove put the gay marriage bans on state ballots to help get out the vote and establish linkage.
Late night TV made it clear evangelicals were divinely and en masse BUSH voters
Deficits are still off the radar, and the war spending, and the economy.
Shanet