Al Carrier

Mark, Thank you for posting Tosh here. GPH was a second rate SOF who just happened to be in the right place at the right time and now he is being considered by so many as an important person of this period. I asked him a simple question a month or so ago. "What did you accomplish with your covert operations?" He never responded because he had nothing to share in the area of successes. Proving my point further. GPH is just another James Files that is trying to make a name for himself at the cost of a true investigation. A wanna-be who wants to go down in history as being important, when in truth, he couldn't cut it in whatever venture he chose. TRUTH HURTS, EH JER! Al

I understand that Mark. I was just providing a little background for when the phrase initiated in this context. Al

Mark, The term "eight-cent solution" was coined in the early fifties when a dry pack box of 20 .38 caliber wad-cutters were going for roughly $1.50. Not positive but I believe it was first used in an article written in the Chicago Tribune. It has been a term handed down since as slang for a bullet to the head would resolve the problem. Al

Thank you Ryan. The above weighs both heavily and proudly on all who have worn the uniform. John seemed to always do as he had always done. And those things very courageously were, far above and beyond the call of duty. He certainly rests with those few very honored. Charlie Black <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Very nice and deserving posting Ryan. I couldn't agree more with Charlie and all on their thoughts on John. I cannot begin to explain how saddened I was when I learned of John's passing. He has suffered a great deal in life and while it is tragic that he left us so young, he is deserving of the rest and reward he is now receiving. I have considered him a friend and a valuable researcher and he will be greatly missed. Not long ago, I lost another associate who was ironically another VN vet. He was getting files for me from the archives and tracking down a subject's files when he was ran down by an elderly driver when crossing the street. John had been doing some work on external ballistics in regards to the assassination and I had passed on some charts I had put together. I had not seen him post or publish on it yet, but may have shared a finished or near finished product with others that I am not aware of. Again, I will miss him a great deal and the comfort I can feel in this is that he has earned this peace. May the peace of the Lord be with him and his family. Al

One last comment here and I will put it as simple as I can so Hemming can reply with a straight answer (holding my breath, NOT). What exactly did the all knowing, all important GPH accomplish with his soooo important associates and contacts??? Most believe this gentleman has inside information on the Kennedy Assassination through his work, contacts and associates. But from what we see in history, these individuals did nothing but chase their tails and make fools of themselves with their so-called covert operations. So we are to believe that they were somehow connected or in the know of what went down in Dallas on November 22, 1963? And the truth has been hidden for 42 years since? Oh, I forgot, Hemming knows but is keeping quiet because the death squads are watching him. AS THE STOMACH TURNS.... Hemming can keep going off on me and then rambling his anti-sematic crap to show what a little mind he possesses, I am simply asking a simple question and waiting for a simple answer. Al

Pat, I agree and disagree with you at the same time. That is where the problem is with researchers in puting the likes of Hemming anf Files into proper perspective. I have no doubt that Files worked for Nicolletti. But working for a low life mobster does not make him a qualified assassin that persons in control would trust or even consider utilizing. He was a street thug who operated in illegal criminal activities through the mob. Nothing more. Hemming being considered important because he was SOF is laughable. Soldiers of Fortune are a dime a dozen and the reason they are soldiers of fortune is because they are not valuable enough to cut it through the military. They are wanna-be's. SOF is very different from Mercenaries. The latter is paid well because they have a background to show their value. SOF is those who want to be involved and have just enough background to spout out what they can do but never come through. The whole Cuban operation that utilized the likes of Sturgis and Hall is a classic example of how the operation was a joke from the start! They never achieved their goals and only bled off the government accounts, much as we saw in Central America in the '80's. Their were those within the military that could have achieved success, if that is what the true goal was, but we can now see how it was nothing but a sham. As far as the issue of FBI Informant, their are homeless defecating in their pants on streetcorners who are paid for observations by the feds. That does not make them important. In the case of GPH, he would have been termed a stooly due to his contacts with derelicts who were trying to disrupt intel ops inadvertantly. Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}> --------------------------- The first few that I filed ["Notices of Intent"] were against the Drug Cartel's stateside money launderers and distributors. When it turned out that some had been "doubled" and were acting as informants for the FBI/DEA Drug Interdiction Task Force [later renamed the Vice/Prez D/Interdiction TF]; I was pursuaded to relent and join the task force, which I did for almost 4 years. Others filed [and 100% "settled" successfully] were on behalf of convicts in the prisons of several states -- and wherein local authorities were attempting to use the forfeiture statutes against their family homes, vehicles, etc. !! More than once, it also resulted in the quick paroling [or release to custody-at-large supervision] of the plaintiffs. I routinely filed as "Next Friend", and changed the laws [RE: Post-Conviction Relief] in several States. As you are nodoubt aware, I am refering to Stare decisis, not the nullification of a statute or rule; as that must be accomplished by a legislated body enacting an amendment or repeal of same -- until then, statutes adjudged unconstitional "vel non" remain on the books for years and years. There was no "Cause of Action/Case or Controversy" [Tort?] in the Christic matter, that is why they lost and paid a heavy fine !! You nag repeatedly as to "...read the posts !!" -- I have diligently read the posts, and I have yet to find Gratz "threatening" the forum. However, after noting your's [and others unmamed] proclivity for assuming the worst and taking statements out of context, I have repeatedly advised Gratz to refrain from even using any legalisms in his missives, as it seems to upset you girls no end !! Never-the-less, I found his "treatise??" on Blakey & R.I.C.O. quite instructive, not threatening. Grow up and get back to your usual well researched offerings on this forum. You don't like Gratz -- well tough titty !! Get a life. You don't like him because he is a bible-thumper?? I am a diehard atheist, and served in several revolutionary activities, but I have opted to not adopt either right-wing nor left-wing "theologies". After laughing our asses off in Havana, with reference to self styled "left-wing/socialist/marxist" tourists who arrived in floods during early 1959, we chose to avoid these puffed-up fools -- and get on with our business [removing Somoza, Trujillo, Duvalier, et al.]. I have a tremendous dislike for dogmatic "evangelicals" of both the left and the right -- none have ever provided genuine support when it really mattered. "Che" found that out the hard way !! As to K.G.B./G.R.U. -- go tho their extant websites, you might discover that quited a bit is overtly commented upon these days. Remember also, that I had access to more than just a few "Intel Insiders" over the years, and even 40 years ago they were quited casual in making these very same references at that time -- as they considered that to be quite routine, of no great consequence; and just the way that this business was done. [Mitrohkin does contain some tidbits of accuracy] We gave Keating minor tidbits, because our sources demanded that nothing be exposed to the moles infesting "Camelot" at that time. Our RFK liaison did quietly make mention of "tidbits", but was rebuffed while staying at "Hickory Hill". Senator Smathers [Democrat] tried also, and witnessed a dinner plate being smashed at the Palm Beach Compound. We were left with DEMOCRATIC Governor Ferris Bryant, because we discovered that most of our Republican contacts were scared xxxxless assholes, and were of the same stripe as Generals Lemay & Powers, who wanted to start World War III or IV !! [Gov. Bryant's Air Nat'l Guard Adjutant General (2 Star General) came back to the Mansion in Tallahassee from DC, practically in tears, while briefing Gov. Bryant that the Pentagon & SAC were planning to "wait-it-out" !! Ron Lippert got busted at Jose Marti Int'l, never uncovered one clue, and I would like to see any cites to authority on any of his "Intel" submissions. CIA later attempted to claim our David Cabezas and Rumbaugh as their own, but were laughed out of town. Lippert "heard" some comments as to the S.A.M. AAA site equipment rumored to have arrived at Casilda [near Trinidad], but he even missed out on the broad daylight reports of SAM missiles banging against houses as they turned the corners of the extremely narrow streets of Trinidad enroute to Cienfuegos. So how the hell does he predate our firm June & July '62 confirmations?? [bTW, the warheads came in first !!] There were rumors running wild inside Cuba as I left during October 1960, and not just about "cohetes" [missiles] -- to the point that when I stopped for coffee at a bodega in Pinar del Rio, I was accused by a crowd of being a Russian. I quickly confessed to them that they were "correcto" ["Cierto"]; and that I had parked my submarine just down the highway. Why did I wait 40 years ??!! Are you just stupid, or a wise-ass -- or BOTH??!! DGI's death squads have murdered scores of exiles since 1963, and their squads remain active to this day inside the U.S. !! Why do you think that the hammer fell so heavy on the "Miami-5"??; because the court received Intel as to their nexus with real bad guys, not just a snitch who might have?? assisted in Basulto's "Brothers" aircraft shootdown. More importantly, those with insider knowledge of events opted to remain alive and well with their families [both inside Cuba, and in exile locales] -- which I consider to be a very smart series of decisions. Have you ever been in harm's way, or am I dealing with yet another mouthy wannabe ?? I expect that you will continue to provide us with somewhat more intelligent data in the near term, and avoid these amatuerish polemics. Respectfully, GPH _________________________ <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now I've heard it all!!! GPH calling others wanna-be's!!! Death squads stalking him, keeping him quiet for forty years! Stop it, your killing me! You are a legend in your own mind and have been for forty plus years! What a valuable resource you have been to our government in your wanna-be state of mind! The WWF should create a wanna-be dream match between GPH and James Files. They could dance around the ring with Files spouting how big he was in the mafia and how the government used him while GPH could spout how big he was with the CIA and how he was utilized in the anti-Castro operation and in SE Asia. We could have Gratz, Dankbarr and the Key West Whako at ringside interpreting their bull****! Every simple mind that followed their story would pay to watch and purchase a video. It would be a trailer trash record!!! Al

John and James, Funny how the Leon names pops up again, eh? Might serve as interest to you to find out what Leon senior did in the fifties in Washington under Eisenhower. I believe I touched on this some time ago... Al

James, Excellent work as usual! I would be a little cautious in the workings of Siragusa. Jack Anderson passed on a number of items that were told under the table that he had no way of confirming and Siragusa using him for this information makes me lean toward a disinfo channel without Anderson knowing it, along with several other pieces Anderson released. Siragusa was in a position to access organized crime, but he was also in a position to access those who were trained and ready to do the job through the government. Look at where he went later in life. I do agree that Pivall looks good for Morales. Just my opinion... Al

Once again you are speaking without understanding the content or the researcher. I possess a copy of the file on our "Major Lopez" and have tracked down the family the deceased man. I also hold three photos of him at various times in his career. I keep quiet about his identity and do not release the file info out of respect to his family and consideration that he acted out of duty and in reality likely had no choice. You can ramble on about your supposed escapades all you want and demean others who you know nothing of, but if you would look into my background, you will find that I am not a dupe SOF or wanna-be, but have lived it and have an understanding of how mechanics are inserted, and eventually eliminated. I have a trail of Conein to Siragusa to eventually Fernandez and Hull that intertwines with our topic and me in a roundabout way. That is my motivation and you can spout all you want about your supposed past. The ball is in your court! Al <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Al, Out of curiosity: how did you obtain the file? -Stu <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Stu, Nice to hear from you again. It's been awhile. I was sidetracked several times through various alias and after two trips to North Carolina, I was finally able to hook up with the right lead and then get the file through a contact in registry. Al

GPH, Nice to see that you are keeping in touch with Tim from Key West! I can tell by your ignorant slanderous remarks in the same wording that he used before he was booted. Are you going to send my chief an e-mail also taking my postings out of context and demanding he discipline me? You have some here on the forum believing in your wanna-be history, but I would hope that most have realized you for what you have been. You originally attacked me in this thread. I fired back and you return with your dribble that you are noted for. If you are so convinced that I am a fraud, then instead of running internet searches where you will find nothing realistic, check with your inside contacts (if you have any), to find out. I began an open discussion with an individual involved in some of the ops also and he went away from here and another forum, not wanting to get into it. How about doing a search on that that might enlighten you. Of Course, you would have to be able to follow it and understand it. No, I have not personnally went myself to the archives, but have sent others who were willing to get what I wanted. I instead used my time and efforts going out and tracking down the persons who could answer my questions and lead me to where and who I was going to. By your exchange, you have only verified my take on you. BTW, you would be an excellent guest on Ollie's BS show! From the cornfields, Al

Once again you are speaking without understanding the content or the researcher. I possess a copy of the file on our "Major Lopez" and have tracked down the family the deceased man. I also hold three photos of him at various times in his career. I keep quiet about his identity and do not release the file info out of respect to his family and consideration that he acted out of duty and in reality likely had no choice. You can ramble on about your supposed escapades all you want and demean others who you know nothing of, but if you would look into my background, you will find that I am not a dupe SOF or wanna-be, but have lived it and have an understanding of how mechanics are inserted, and eventually eliminated. I have a trail of Conein to Siragusa to eventually Fernandez and Hull that intertwines with our topic and me in a roundabout way. That is my motivation and you can spout all you want about your supposed past. The ball is in your court! Al

Mark and David, I posses two cables sent through the NSA to Col. Conein at the Saigon Station in November 2, 1963 and November 25, 1963 asking the whereabouts of Major Lopez of Laos and the second asking the whereabouts of Major Lopez and Team 5. I have tracked down who Major Lopez actually was and am confident he is the same as Pakse Base Man and the man on the lamp post in DP at the time of the assassination. This individual has been deceased for since the mid-eighties. Team 5 I have been tracking through association in both activity and in when they met their demise within a month or so of the assassination. This is educated speculation, by the most part, but it makes a hell of an arguement. I will not release the docs or the identities I am puting into place until 1) I can work through the origin/author of the cables 2) I am more confident in the Team 5 personnel identity. I have issues with smearing the names of individuals who were likely involved at this level, even if the evidence points rather clearly at them. The hands-on shooters in the assassination were merely carrying out their assignment and had no choice but to do so, considering their military obligation and more so what would become of them if they backed out. IMHO, it didn't matter because they were eliminated shortly after anyway, except for the stager, AKA Major Lopez. Al

John, You seem to be going to a great deal of trouble in dealing with Tim. My question is why? You run an excellent forum and there are many quality researchers posting here reguarly, then why are you compromising it with the likes of Tim and spending so much energy battling him? Wouldn't it be much simpler to remove him from the forum? His threats are hollow. He has no grounds to file on you and it is obvious that you will be supported by a high majority of the forum. I would gladly submit an affidavit in your behalf in case he had the guts and know how to file such an international suit against you. Al

This may not be directly following this thread, but it does relate to the overall feel of it. Several months ago, I was attacked by a whacko on the Lancer Forum. This individual was as far out in left field as one can get. He attacked me here on John's forum with such a vengence as to repeat his psychotic ramblings on everything I posted. He then e-mailed my chief and made rediculous accusations against me and accused me of threatening him with bodily harm, by mix-matching my posts in order to twist my words into sounding close to threats. I posted on Lancer asking Debra to remove this individual or I would walk. Debra replied with statements that I needed to grow up and I was too thinned skinned. I have presented at Lancer in 2001 and provided material to her sister's presentation later, when I was unable to attend. Besides that, I walked from Lancer and have not posted since, nor will I again. I then made a request to John to remove this whacko from this forum and he saw the need and did so. The individual I am referring to is back posting at Lancer, but is nowhere to be found on the education forum. The short of it, if one does not like what is going on one forum, then walk away! Get a life if you are considering lawsuites on an education forum that is intended to further the investigation of such a miscarriage of justice as the JFK assassination. You are puting yourself above the cause!!! I spent ten years researching without coming forward in the research community. I scoured over what was being printed and posted and weighed the material without interaction. I can't say I have gained a great deal by interacting, beyond what I was doing before, other than what I have gained in one-on-one interaction with select individuals that I have kept contact with since coming out into the research community. I am not saying that I do not learn and put certain aspects into perspective on a regular basis by visiting the forum, but it is not neccessary to interact in order to gain from what is being posted. I am a serious researcher and am very open minded when it comes to weighing new evidence and angles of evidence and testimony. I have learned from new researchers as much as old as they have a new perspective in regards to what has been out their. I have contributed as much as possible in need of new perspectives, but it can be done without my direct input as the topics and issues will eventually come up. For those of you who threaten lawsuites, shame on you for being so narrow minded and puting yourself on a pedestal above all else!!! John should be free to run this forum as he sees fit! If you don't like it, then take a walk!!! Al

I believe it was only Norman who heard the shells. I also believe the WC tested whether or not someone could hear the shells hit the floor from his position and found they could. I've studied Norman's, Williams' and Jarman's testimony, and not only found them credible, but a convincing argument for conspiracy.[/color] (Pat Speer) Given the noise of the crowd and the buzz of the moment, I found it hard to believe that one could hear and determine that shells were hitting the floor. That aside, it's an interesting aspect for sure. James Pat and James, There are many factors that should be considered in determining the significance and reliability of Norman, Williams and Jarman's testimony in regards to the sounds over their heads. A reinactment of the event to prove that one can hear the bolt work and shell casings hit the floor and compare it to what the three wits below heard as being reliable and consistent is questionable to say the least. In a reinactment, those tested are prepared for the sounds and will focus closely on what is going on overhead. In real time and in a case of surprise or startle reaction as we would find with the three wits, there is an issue of auditory block where the much higher level of decibles of gunshots would override the immediately followed working of the bolt and shell casings hitting the floor overhead. It is highly unlikely they would hear these lighter sounds and even more unlikely they would recall hearing them. There testimony in regards to this is too convenient IMHO. Considering there was no subfloor, the sounds would easily travel through, but the other factors I just mentioned would override the likelihood of this being reasonable. It is also interesting to note that none of the three heard footsteps overhead of the shooter fleeing the sniper's nest. These sounds would be much more audible than the sound of the bolt in action and the shell casings hitting the floor, both for the reason of the loudness of it and the fact that it would have been in the aftermath of the shots, where they could have been easily defined. I am not saying that shots were not fired over their heads, but their precise recall and ability to depict such low level sounds overhead between gunshots is beyond being amazing. It gave the government an added earwitness to the shots on top of the physical evidence found. In other words a consistent timeline of the event to override a challenge of the planting of evidence. The three wits were simple minding and therefore easily comprimised in their testimony and recall. Al

Tim,James, Ron and all, Ih ave posted several times here and on Lancer on the "flying wedge" motorcycle escort alignment and published an article where I challenged trained and experienced motorcycle officers on staging an appropriate escort and they diagramed the flying wedge. You can pick out still from Miami, Tampa, etc that show inconsistencies in this pattern of protection, and I have posted this pattern in the Miami, Tampa and Berlin motorcades of fall of '63. So where does the breakdown come? It comes in when the photos were shot and how the stills show the flying wedge in action. The flying wedge will utilize nine motorcycle outriders, five forming a frontal wedge and four riding offset to the rear. These motorcycle officers do not hold their position but are placed in this position in order to respond to closing in of crowds and assistance at advance intersections when needed. The flying wedge varies in its pattern throughout the motorcade route. The problem in Dallas was that the flying wedge was never established from Love Field. The frontal wedge was never formed and the frontal five outriders took a position in front of the lead car in a diaginal position, which would not allow for them to react to the immediacy of threat close to the limo, or to widen the crowd as it closed it. This is why Greer had to ride with his door open partially on Main to divert the crowds away from the limo. The rear cyclists were held back beyond the sides of the limo and closer to the SS follow-up car than the limo itself. Now the purpose of the flying wedge is not to create an obstruction to the protected party from long range threat, but to create an inner bubble of security for close range threats. We see after the fact in Dallas how it opened the President up to threats from long range through uninhibited view of the target. Al

John, Thank you for the kind words and your questions and scenario is somewhat feeding what I have been trying to get across for some time. As far as the links to my previous comments on ballistics, if you would do a search here and on Lancer you would see what I am referring to as I have been consistent throughout. What we need to keep in mind as far as internal wound ballistics is that fragmentation of the original projectile will greatly decrease sustained velocity within the penetrated cavity and therefore result in minimal disruption within through energy dispersion. Energy dispersion within the cavity is what causes the disruption within the cavity and allows for the blowout effect in the exit wound. A tangential impact strike would create a certain degree of yaw of the bullets true trajectory and stability and create considerable dispersion of energy within the cavity. However, this same tangential strike would not change the bullet's trajectory in an outward manner, as many would have you think, but would turn the bullet inward as the energy is absorbed through penetration. We see this in semi and hard resistent penetrations such as multi-layer resistant material and compressed layed resistant material in the latter as windshield glass. The skull is a shelved or multi-boned layed material and the energy is considerably absorbed through impact. The angled shot impact does not reflect, but turns inward. To maximize disruption within the cavity, one would seek a projectile compromised of total jacketing or bonded jacketing that would retain as much of its original compostion and shape with disruption of true flight trajectory as possible to create such yaw and keep it true flight path. The more weight and velocity it retains through penetration of the cavity while wavering or yawing through the same, the greater amount of consistent energy it disperses. A fragmenting projectile will disperse it's minimal energy quickly and not drive through the cavity. The lighter the fragment, the quicker is disperses and looses its energy and the less impact it has within the cavity. That is why I stand behind a shot trajectory of left of the target striking to the right front of the skull and exiting the right rear. Minimal matter left in the cavity with explosive results through trajectory within the skull cavity and explosive exit in the right rear as we see through 90+ percent of the wits after the shot. I have published with the Dealey Plaza Echo regarding this to a degree in March of 2001. Al

John, Pat and Ron, Let me first explain my lack of ready response here on the forum. I am running the overnight shift on my department and am short on street supervisors so I have had only one day off in the last two weeks. Add my part time job and now it looks like I will be working shift on my day off tommorrow and possibly both days off next week, I have not had the time I would like to address these issues. In the past week I have spent what little time I had away from family obligations to assist a nephew in sighting in a precision assault rifle that came way off from norm, and a coworker in slinging and adding a bi-pod to his Swedish precision rifle and then remounting the scope that he poorly mounted. I have been able to sight it in to my liking, but not to his so I have to find some time tommorrow to get him in-line. I also have to assist in a Federal Cartridge Company Ballistic Conference later next week and have the challenge ammo ready for the penetration through obstruction materials into the ballistic geletin block ready for their challenges on their new ammo line. John, I will address your interesting scenario but it will take awhile to find the time to give it the attention it deserves. John, Pat and Ron, what you must understand with subsonic ammunition, whether it be factory or shooter loads, is that it's velocity is under 800fps. Now if we are talking under a fifty meter shot, the trajectory is compromised only slightly. Beyond that, it will go extreme. Wound ballistics is another story as an 800fps projectile does not have the explosive impact and wound channel as a normal rifle caliber projectile that is travelling at speeds of three times that. To complicate issues more, we are dealing with lead time on a moving target and elevation issues of shot origin that would greatly complicate the shot impact. Suppressors disguise the detonation of the shot but do nothing to cover the sound of the shot in-flight, which is more condusive to witness recognition of shot origin. What happers the latter is preconceived determinations that are exposed to the witnesses that will atler their recall in a critical incident stress recall situation. They can be easily convinced of what they heard and recall the events as to what is consistent with the norm. This is why I bring up the issues of "canyon shoot" and what Ron referred to as an operational procedure of "masking". No supressors would be required if the shot volley's were timed appropriately. Again, I will get into this in more detail when I have the time, if you all are interested. Al

John, like most of the threads, it goes where it goes. Your point about people's increased awareness is not lost, and is quite relevant. In reading WWI and WWII field reports on wound ballistics and wound locations, one finds that a majority of head wounds occur on the victim's left side. Right-handers are far less aware of what takes place on their left side, and far less able to dodge shrapnel coming from that side. This phenomenon might help explain how so many people standing directly in front of the TSBD facing the motorcade could come to believe the shots came from their right when it is clear at least two shots were fired directly above them. As stated earlier, and as supported by Jack's observations, the "echo" argument is garbage. On the other hand, this argument could be used to defend that there was a shot from the County Records Building, as the turn of the SS men in the motorcade to their right may have been just their reaction, and not necessarily an accurate response to the sounds. I don't believe this, but thought I'd just point out the obvious. To address some of the other questions, the CIA's manual on assassination given to the Guatemalan rebel army in 54 included the observation that sub-sonic rifles (meaning not just silenced weapons, but weapons whose ammunition has been altered so that the bullet will fly at a subsonic speed) are accurate up to 100 yards. That these men were given .22 caliber rifles along with these manuals is indicative that small caliber rifles equipped with silencers could be effective up to 100 yards. Similarly, Al's discussion of the "canyon shoot" is quite helpful in undertstanding what probably took place. Hugh McDonald's book about Saul is also supportive of this theory, as Saul was purportedly firing "under" Oswald to disguise his shots. I tried to find verification of this phenomenon in print and was unable to find any actual tests to determine our ability to distinguish rapidly fired shots from one another. I did find numerous articles on "masking," a phenomenon whereby a loud noise can effectively make an ear "flinch." As a result of this "flinch" the witness is completely unaware of a similar tone occurring not only briefly afterwards, but briefly BEFORE, as the loud noise cuts-off the brain's processing of sounds that came immediately prior to its arrival. While the tests on masking I found were conducted at much lower volumes than gunshots, and the length of the effective deafness much shorter than I suspected was the difference between shots, these tests nevertheless verified that there is a direct correlation between the loudness of the original noise and the length of the period of effective deafness. When I remembered that many of those nearest Kennedy only heard two shots, when people blocks away heard three, with the last two almost on top of each other, I concluded that it was likely there were two shots fired close together from opposite sides of the Plaza, and that those in the middle heard the two shots close enough together whereby the second shot was masked. Since the shot at 313 has been tied via the bullet fragments to Oswald's rifle, this would indicate a second loud noise came from an area just west of the school book depository within a second or so afterwards. The blurs on Zapruder's film indicate a second response shortly after the headshot--attributed by lone-nutters to sobs by Zapruder as a way of cutting off conjecture. I suspect this was his subconscious response to a second sound he didn't remember hearing. While it may sound stupid to speculate that Zapruder responded to a sound he didn't remember hearing, one should remember that almost EVERYONE these days believes Zapruder responded to a missed shot around frame 160--a shot Zapruder never testified to hearing. In fact, Zapruder's testimony and his assistant Sitzman's statements indicate they could see Kennedy when he was first shot--which contradicts the lone nut claim that Kennedy was first hit at 224. It is one of the many ironies one uncovers when investigating the assassination that the lone-nutters and ABC et al base much of their current theories on their interpretation of the Zapruder film, while completely ignoring the testimony of the man who filmed it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Pat, The issue of "masking" is a broad term and under which you comment, much is in-line with diversionary tactics, such as setting off detonations that are both audibly and visually deterrent to the actual operation at hand. It would draw attention away from both the target and shooter and allow for an easy elimination and escape. Subsonic projectiles can be very accurate, but due to their low velocity (under 800fps) and their less than ideal wound ballistic performance (easy deflection from and angled impact), they are not ideal in a case such as this. Accountability of shots should have been a major factor and shots from a low end elimination expectancy would have been questionable and risky as it put material into the mix that could not be accounted for under the proposed plan. I would be careful of weighing to much credibility into the "ballistic matching of Oswald's rifle" with the fragments found within the limo. The frags id to the rifle are both questionable through NAA and more so through rifling characteristics, which I have posted on several times here and at Lancer (which I am no longer a member). Al

Thank you again Al, I don't mean to be difficult but I am also interested in a distance of over 80 meters, say up to 160. Can you comment on issues as one goes to such a distance? Also are you willing to talk about wound ballistics? John <{POST_SNAPBACK}> John, I would be more than happy to comment on extended distances and would prefer that you specify your questions as to them to save going back and forth. I am also happy to converse on wound ballistics as it is an area I specialize in. Please feel free to direct any questions regarding that here. Al

Al, thank you for your clarifying input, much appreciated. I would like to hear comments on decrease in accuracy (or not) of silencers. John, This is an excellent question that I can only recall being addressed by Bill Miller and Stu Wexler to me through private e-mails. A suppressor will slow the muzzle velocity of the projectile some 10-12%, depending on rifling. This can become a huge factor for long range shots, but keep in mind we are talking about shots within the plaza within 80m. That would only drop the trajectory from origin to impact to 2-3". If the shooter had practiced at specific ranges, elevations and angles prior to the shooting, a preset elevation and azmuth setting would accommodate such deviation. If the shooter was relying on another shooter to pick the location of each shot volley, then that would not be possible. But the variation of trajectory would not be a factor that would allow for a missed shot, if the shooter was on-target with his shot. I may have missed it but do these trips include planning that say something like ....proceed down elm street, once the crowd is thinning out go to .. speed and proceed to mart...etc. on paper. I may have missed this too... was the slowing start as a reaction to the first shot, if so exactly where did the slowing start? Generally this is played out as it goes down. There is obvious planning as to what is expected for crowds and considerations made for speed increases on thoroughfares where crowds would not be present. In the case of DP, the crowds were still present, although considerably thinned, but I would expect them to maintain the parade speed until they reached the underpass and accelerated to the onramp to the Stemmons. Al

<{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Larry, I believe much of the confusion relating the extreme turn with in the motorcade was due to it being a much greater angle than they were used to. Gary is correct that Towner shows the turn clearly being maintained in the center, but it was rather sharp and considering the slow speed and the swing with the congested corner, I am sure that those within the motorcade may have subconsciously recalled it as much more dramatic as it was beyond the norm. I don't believe this was a pre-incident factor in setting it up from the inside, but merely worked out well for those who were laying in wait. Al

Jack, With all due respect, would you care to comment on the difference between echoes and reverbrations. I believe the fix of where the testing shot origins played a great deal here and those were too limited to begin with. Al <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That is easy, Al. An echo is a duplication of the original noise but not as loud, and a moment later. If I shout HELLO and a moment later hear a distinct "hello", that is an echo. This happens when there are only a FEW reflective surfaces. In Dealey Plaza there are maybe a hundred or so reflective surfaces, all close to each other. Each produces its own echo "hello" VERY CLOSE TOGETHER, with NONE HEARD DISTINCTLY, but bundled together. This produces a long staccato rumbling called a REVERBERATION in which no SINGLE reproduction of the original HELLO can be distinguished. Jack <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Jack, Thanks for the Webster's definition, but let's put it into perspective with not only the terrain of DP but also the witness recall. Place yourself within the plaza watching the motorcade and focusing on it. Volley's ring out within six to eight seconds and you are required to determine how many and direction of the shot origin. Would the muzzle blast plust bullet bow shockwave have an effect on your recall? Would your positioning in the plaza have an effect on your recall as to how many and where the shots originated from. If this was set up for that purpose, wouldn't DP be an ideal location for such confusion? Critical incident stress recall is complex enough, and the sharpness of the report would be hard to differentiate through such traumatic recall. Al

Jack, With all due respect, would you care to comment on the difference between echoes and reverbrations. I believe the fix of where the testing shot origins played a great deal here and those were too limited to begin with. Al