Gerry Hemming
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Posts posted by Gerry Hemming
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I apologize that all of my other attachments on other threads have suddenly disappeared, but there is only so much space allocated for inserting such documents as these.
T.C.
Thank you for these clarifying documents, Tim. Personally, I have failed to understand the point being made by Gerry Hemming in this matter. His own position is that many of his own adventures aren't included in his own service record - nor would one expect them to be - and that even his most comprehensive disclosures to the HSCA have been washed from the record by somebody who simply eliminated large chunks of his testimony. Having staked out the position that the written record about him is incomplete and cannot be trusted, by what twisted double standard would he expect that the record of any other covert operator would disclose all his activities?
Gerry has made a number of sweeping assertions on this Forum, without benefit of any substantive evidence, and has reguarly castigated anyone who asked for any such confirming evidence. Presumably, we are to take him at his word, for that should be good enough and suffice. Were these things only that simple.
In this instance, Gerry has made some sweeping statements about Tosh Plumlee, and seems to have been hoisted by his own petard. Perhaps Gerry has some additional documents that might call Plumlee and his disclosures into question, but of what value can these documents be when Hemming himself insists that such paperwork is, by necessity, incomplete at best, and rewritten for obfuscatory purposes at worst?
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COVERT OPERATOR MY ASS !! He just got through stating that he met with Martino DURING 1991, and that must have been an interesting conversation. What did he do, use a stethescope on Martino's gravestone? This illliterate wannabe punk couldn't even remember that John died during 1975.
And if he claims it was a typo, he better be damned accurate as to just when John left us in Guatemala to return twice to the States. My files are on record, whether they have been "doctored", or filled with erroneous assertions -- they are ON THE WEB, and at NARA.
This wannabe phony is listed NOWHERE, and claims he was EVERYWHERE. What is your problem sister ??
Far too many of our good men died during these struggles, and their families are sick and tired of this asshole's phony impersonations.
As for me, you have stated that I am a prime suspect in the JFK murder, but you wimp on about my BSing. Is the BSing that Weberman's bullxxxx is all phony?? Well, tell him that -- and maybe he won't feel so bad in
a courtroom here in North Carolina very soon !! OR IS it that you are alleging that I have been involved in a cover-up for "40+ years" ??
How about you putting down -- "UNDER OATH"; all of the massive proof that you have of anything bookreader. Then I can tend to you.
______________________-
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Plumlee never served in the U. S. Armed Forces, save for 4 months in "Recruit Basic Training"; and upon it being discovered that he was underage -- he was "Separated from Service". The document used by the Department of Defense was a "Form" printed up by the GPO for this very type of "Minority Separation"; which is completely different than that which regular members of the military are issued;
"Form DD-214".
There is no "Discharge" per se, as there has been no lawful service of enlistment. In fact, his later alleged "Army Serial Number" (RA 183890160) was immediately rescinded due to his false enlistment, and that number was later issued to another Army member. A quick check with the Department of Veterans Affairs will show that Plumlee accrued no rights to any benefits whatsoever, as he was denied re-enlistment in any branch of the U. S. Armed Forces.
Any reference by a person separated thus, and later claiming to have been granted either a "General" or "Honorable" Discharge is fraudulent, a federal criminal felony, and pursuant to 18 US Code, sect. 1001; is punishable by up to 5 years imprisonment (w/ $10,000 fine) in each and every instance where the person makes said claim(s)!!
A year after his 4 months of recruit training, the official records [confirmed by Plumlee to the FBI) employment records and residences which begin during July 1954, and continue through July 1958.
I would call attention to the fact that at age 21 [1958] he already had his self-styled "REDBIRD" tattoo, and that any association with his many other fraudulent claims. Especially the lies about his alleged "CIA JFK ABORT FLIGHT" to Redbird Airport [13 miles SW of Dallas] during November, 1963 -- and that said tattoo was a "commemorative sign" adopted by he and his cohorts subsequent to the assassination of JFK !!
MORE TO COME !!
GPH
-----------------------------------------
Any transmittal of fraudulent claims by Plumlee, especially over the Internet; voids the federal 5 year statute of limitations, and thereby renews his being subjected to federal criminal charges.
[18 US CODE, Sect. 1001; 18 US CODE, sect. 371; etc.]
_______________________________________
Mr. Patrick,
Please take a look at my DD214 from '80 forward and then my IRS earned compensation records from '80-'84. You know damned well what was going on with Tosh and his records and if you don't, then I have underestimated you and your background. I fail to understand what has possessed you to post such crap about Tosh when you know damned well how these records are doctored. If you have a hard-on for Tosh, then take it up privately, by doing so on open forum, you are doing an injustice to further research!
Al
-----------------------------
ARE YOU BLIND OR STUPID ??!! READ THE DAMN DD-214, IT SHOWS ONLY 4 MONTHS OF "SERVICE?" !!
If he has beguiled the VA, etc. into a "Category 8" disability, then you have just guaranteed that he will be hearing from the U.S. Attorney in Denver, CO.
I hope he thanks you for getting him back into the slam for the 6th time ??!!
GPH
_____________________________
Plumlee never served in the U. S. Armed Forces, save for 4 months in "Recruit Basic Training"; and upon it being discovered that he was underage -- he was "Separated from Service". The document used by the Department of Defense was a "Form" printed up by the GPO for this very type of "Minority Separation"; which is completely different than that which regular members of the military are issued; "Form DD-214". There is no "Discharge" per se, as there has been no lawful service of enlistment.Here is a copy of the "Form DD-214" (lower left corner) which Gerry Hemming claims Tosh wouldn't have, showing an honorable discharge:
A quick check with the Department of Veterans Affairs will show that Plumlee accrued no rights to any benefits whatsoever, as he was denied re-enlistment in any branch of the U. S. Armed Forces.Here is a copy of the page showing the award of benefits from a December 29, 2004 document:
T.C.
---------------------------
ARE YOU BLIND OR STUPID ??!! READ THE DAMN DD-214, IT SHOWS ONLY 4 MONTHS OF "SERVICE?" !!
If he has beguiled the VA, etc. into a "Category 8" disability, then you have just guaranteed that he will be hearing from the U.S. Attorney in Denver, CO.
I hope he thanks you for getting him back into the slam for the 6th time ??!!
GPH
_____________________________
And don't give me the government phonied up the records of this snitch who cashed forged checks across the U.S. and on to Honolulu, Hawaii.
Maybe you can sucker him into making out a NOTARIZED affidavit reference those files, and his fraudulent receipt of VA benefits ??!! I have testified under oath, and I would like to see him just say [under oath] that he has testified ANYWHERE !!
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Consider me to be defending Tosh here and now. I have personally posted documents which support the timing and substance of his assertions. I also went scuba diving from Marathon in November, 2004, and there was a large inlet lined with docks. So, whether my defense is deemed adequate or not, it's time for Hemming to deliver on his commitment: "FAX his whole goddamn file to John forthwith !!"Turner and Hinckle swallowed the "Tooshee Tale" about the "Thor II" leaving the docks at Marathon, even despite the fact that there were NO docks at Marathon.... PLEASE. Somebody defend him, and I will FAX his whole goddamn file to John forthwith !!The following letter was sent to Plumlee by Bernard "Bud" Fensterwald, Jr.:Law Offices
Fensterwald & Associates
2101 L Street, N. W.
WASHINGTON, D. C. 20037
_______
(202) 785-1636
April 21, 1981
Mr. William R. Plumlee
c/o General Delivery
Bailey, Colorado 80431
Dear Tosh:
You must be special, you got your records in record time - - if you'll pardon the pun. Let me know what you think.
Best regards,
Bernard Fensterwald, Jr.
BF/is
enclosure
cc: Gary Shaw....
I would call attention to the fact that at age 21 [1958] he already had his self-styled "REDBIRD" tattoo, and that any association with his many other fraudulent claims. Especially the lies about his alleged "CIA JFK ABORT FLIGHT" to Redbird Airport [13 miles SW of Dallas] during November, 1963 -- and that said tattoo was a "commemorative sign" adopted by he and his cohorts subsequent to the assassination of JFK !!
MORE TO COME !!
GPH
This is Gerry Hemming keeping his word? This is his response to someone calling him on his promise to produce Tosh Plumlee's file to John Simkin? "MORE TO COME!!" indeed. Seeing is believing. Even lowly scribblers and bookreaders can discern that Hemming is reneging. Everyone has misunderstood him or misrepresented his statements. Boo friggin Hoo. But there's no mistaking the commitment he made to produce Tosh's "whole goddamn file to John forthwith !!"
Consider me to be defending Tosh here and now.... So, whether my defense is deemed adequate or not, it's time for Hemming to deliver on his commitment: "FAX his whole goddamn file to John forthwith !!"Somebody defend him, and I will FAX his whole goddamn file to John forthwith !!We are still awaiting the Hemming FAX of Tosh's "whole goddamn file," nothing more, nothing less.
T.C.
---------------------------------
Timmy "Sweetie":
I wasn't making a proposal for "engagement" [or "marriage"] between yourself and "Tooshy". Do you have even a grasp of plain English?? "Defending" him is NOT a simple "I Do" honey; but I expect that you will "come" forth with exact details of "What" you support this clown with. Do you have the brains to figure out that he has scammed Turner, Hinckle, Kitman Ho & Oliver Stone, Gary Shaw, John Simkin, et al. and ad nauseum.
John has yet to forward a FAX telephone number, so how the hell can I send the files ??!! And how the hell would you know that any files have not already been forwarded by me or by other members ?? Why should John even disclose same to a puny bookreader such as yourself??
He has now inserted himself into the "Bayo/Pawley Affair", and these bald-face lies fly in the face of the fact that: During that period [June 1963] he was doing time at the Loxahatchee Road Prison on "Bee-Line Highway", northwest of West Palm Beach. [Check the Florida Dept. of Corrections website]
The PBY5-A was owned by the same Charley Bush who later flew us on the October "Search & Rescue Op" for Rorke & Sullivan. The plane was recommended to Pawley by me. This "Catalina" was later purchased by drug smuggler "snitch" Kenneth Burnstine [1974] -- who was later killed before he could "testa-lie" against WerBell, et al. [1976].
Dumbass "Tooshy" thinks that professional aviators would land off of Baracoa, Cuba in broad daylight, and "..launch a raft.."?? The "Catalina" is NEVER landed at night !! Nobody without a type rating in that series & model of amphibious aircraft is even permitted to sit in the forward jump seat, much less "Co-Pilot" the bird; and that is due to insurance company contracts and the FAA.
It is obvious that Bill Turner, et al. feel that making any "disclosures" of "Tooshy's" perfidy are beneath their dignity. My advice to you is: IF you want to know more about your scamming boyfriend, make an arrangement with John Simkin to copy and forward the files in a CD-ROM -- that is what I am doing right now !!
BOO HOO, your boyfriend scammed you !! Don't blame me for the reality that anybody with 'street-sense" would have figurwed out this "Gomer-Gump" years ago. Fensterwald, Lesar, Oliver Stone, Dick Clark, Mozaic, et al. sure as hell did dump "Tooshy" in very short order; what is your deficiency ??!!
GPH
______________________---
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Gerry, could you tell us anything about the White Hand group?
--------------------------
John:
I have just about finished gathering up the relevant material pertaining to "our" efforts at derailing
ALL of the "White Hand/Death Squad" activities involving 1970s Guatemala, El Salvador, etc. operations
headed up by Mario Sandoval Alarcon, Oliverio Castaneda Paiz, et al. !! "Our" efforts at stopping the mass murders, kidnappings, etc. began during the early 1960s, and continued throughout the 1970s and 1980s.
Angleton was kept "aware" of progress and shortfalls, and he always insisted that these matters took precedence over any of the Cuban operations. JJA indeed saved thousands of lives over the years, and the
few perpetrators who have survived have come to know his name quite well !! He was an implacable enemy
of those barbarians, and the facts of his having created numerous organizations [including CISPES] during the late 1970s, might be told more sooner than later.
_______________________________________
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Yes Timmy: IT IS A LOATHESOME RECORD. And why don't YOU cite the book(s) and page numbers of where" "...In the recent spate of books, Hemming is the 'source?' for assertions that RFK had 'DIRECT' meetings with Roselli and Oswald..."!!
Perhaps a constructive approach would be to ask the Big Guy what "authority" he would "cite," just the name of a scribbler or tome that got something, anything, correct.
I am still waiting for somebody to "CITE" to some "AUTHORITY" when they pose an inquiry in my direction.Gerry, do you plan to take advantage of this offer?From Ultimate Sacrifice, p. 408: "A former anti-Castro activist, whose CIA and FBI files are extensive, claims that Bobby Kennedy actually met Johnny Rosselli on one occasion in Miami. The meeting occurred in '1962,' sometime 'before the Cuban Missile Crisis' of October 1962." Source: "Phone interview with Gerry Patrick Hemming, 4-10-96."
From A Farewell To Justice, p. 201: "Without corroboration, offering none, Hemming spins a story of Bobby choppering from Palm Beach to a training facility near Homestead Air Force base. There, Hemming imagines, Bobby met with Cubans, many of them Bay of Pigs veterans, who were part of his Special Group. According to Hemming, among the Cubans that day stood one Lee Harvey Oswald, even as independent corroboration does indeed place Oswald in Miami that summer of 1963." Source: "Interviews with Gerald Patrick Hemming, November 15, 2000; June 5, 2005."
Those are just the two most recent examples. I'm not defending the authors, so there's no need to play kill the messenger. A simple confirmation or denial that these claims came out of Hemming's mouth would suffice.
Check-out what is available on the Internet, and should you encounter problems sorting out the bullxxxx from the few facts, let me know -- VIA TITLE & PAGE NUMBER.I've given Hemming two recent examples, with title and page number, of the forty plus years of BS. I'm not interested in an adjusted version. A simple confirmation or denial that these authors did or did not accurately present his comments would suffice. As for the challenge to go on the Internet, why access Weberman if it's unreliable? Why waste time on the decades of work by flawed scribblers. Why can't Hemming point to a single book and say: that is the best of the lot. Then as a basis for discussion, that work could be used to move forward.
Turner and Hinckle swallowed the "Tooshee Tale" about the "Thor II" leaving the docks at Marathon, even despite the fact that there were NO docks at Marathon.... PLEASE. Somebody defend him, and I will FAX his whole goddamn file to John forthwith !!Consider me to be defending Tosh here and now. I have personally posted documents which support the timing and substance of his assertions. I also went scuba diving from Marathon in November, 2004, and there was a large inlet lined with docks. So, whether my defense is deemed adequate or not, it's time for Hemming to deliver on his commitment: "FAX his whole goddamn file to John forthwith !!"
Timmy, if you have the time, and I realize that you are a busy "person?" -- kindly cite the alleged quotes, and I will attempt to respond in due time.I have "kindly" cited the most recent alleged quotes. I have no interest in working through forty plus years of Hemming's inability to have a clearcut communication with any historian, absent him naming just one whose work he supports. Any reader of this forum can get a sense of the difficulty. As for whether or not I'm a "person," what are the alternatives in Hemmingworld?
T.C.
-----------------------------
W. R. Plumlee first initiated a request under the "Freedom of Information / Privacy Act" [Title 5 U.S. Code, section 552, et seq.] during early 1981. The Government responded very quickly, as there were
NO extensive redactions necessary for security purposes; other than the routine blacking out of law enforcement personnel names, and which were noted as "law enforcement exemptions"!!
The following letter was sent to Plumlee by Bernard "Bud" Fensterwald, Jr.:
Law Offices
Fensterwald & Associates
2101 L Street, N. W.
WASHINGTON, D. C. 20037
_______
(202) 785-1636
April 21, 1981
Mr. William R. Plumlee
c/o General Delivery
Bailey, Colorado 80431
Dear Tosh:
You must be special, you got your records in record
time - - if you'll pardon the pun.
Let me know what you think.
Best regards,
Bernard Fensterwald, Jr.
BF/is
enclosure
cc: Gary Shaw
Gary, We would like the Plumlee material back when you
have finished with it. Thanks
BF
------------------------------------------
RECEIVED
April 27, 1981
J. GARY SHAW, ARCH.
-----------------------------------------
The contents of these files reveal that:
[FBI "302" - CI 105-new]
Address: 3509 Lexington Avenue
Dallas, Texas
Race: White
Sex: Male
Age: 21
Date of Birth: 11/25/37
Place of Birth: Panama City Florida
Height: 5' 11"
Weight: 165
Hair: Brown, curly, pompadour
fashion
Eyes: Hazel
Build: Medium
Frame: Slender
Complexion: Medium
Teeth: Good
Scars and Marks: Upper right arm - tattoo
of eagle with shield
(U.S. Army emblem);
Left forearm - tattoo of
redbird sitting on a limb
Military Service: U. S. Army 3/53 to 7/53,
Honorable Discharge
because of minority
Social Security No.: 452-52-4723
Army Serial No.: RA 18389060
Relatives: William W. Plumlee, father,
Dallas, Texas;
C. M. MORGAN, Stepfather;
MARGARET J. MORGAN, Mother,
3509 Lexington Avenue,
Dallas, Texas;
RONNIE MORGAN, half brother,
age 10;
MURRAY DEAN MORGAN, half
brother, age 12,
address same as mother.
Education: Attended North Dallas
High School through tenth
grade;
Completed high school in
Army and correspondence
courses.
Marital Status: Divorced Dorothy Joan
Casells, 2601 Harvard,
Dallas, Texas; two boys,
age 3 and 2, and one
daughter, age four months,
born of marriage. Divorced
3/58
Plumlee furnished the following employment record
and residences:
7/54 to 7/55, Riddle Airlines, Miami, Florida
7/55 to 7/56, Delta Airlines, Dallas, Texas
7/56 to 12/56 unrecalled
1256 to 12/57, Greenfield Flying Service, West Hollywood, Florida
12/56 to 3/58, Petroleum Helicopters, Morgan City, Louisiana
4/58 to 7/58, Radio Announcer, KEPS Radio, Eagle Pass, Texas
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Plumlee never served in the U. S. Armed Forces, save for 4 months in "Recruit Basic Training"; and upon it being discovered that he was underage -- he was "Separated from Service". The document used by the Department of Defense was a "Form" printed up by the GPO for this very type of "Minority Separation"; which is completely different than that which regular members of the military are issued;
"Form DD-214".
There is no "Discharge" per se, as there has been no lawful service of enlistment. In fact, his later alleged "Army Serial Number" (RA 183890160) was immediately rescinded due to his false enlistment, and that number was later issued to another Army member. A quick check with the Department of Veterans Affairs will show that Plumlee accrued no rights to any benefits whatsoever, as he was denied re-enlistment in any branch of the U. S. Armed Forces.
Any reference by a person separated thus, and later claiming to have been granted either a "General" or "Honorable" Discharge is fraudulent, a federal criminal felony, and pursuant to 18 US Code, sect. 1001; is punishable by up to 5 years imprisonment (w/ $10,000 fine) in each and every instance where the person makes said claim(s)!!
A year after his 4 months of recruit training, the official records [confirmed by Plumlee to the FBI) employment records and residences which begin during July 1954, and continue through July 1958.
I would call attention to the fact that at age 21 [1958] he already had his self-styled "REDBIRD" tattoo, and that any association with his many other fraudulent claims. Especially the lies about his alleged "CIA JFK ABORT FLIGHT" to Redbird Airport [13 miles SW of Dallas] during November, 1963 -- and that said tattoo was a "commemorative sign" adopted by he and his cohorts subsequent to the assassination of JFK !!
MORE TO COME !!
GPH
-----------------------------------------
Any transmittal of fraudulent claims by Plumlee, especially over the Internet; voids the federal 5 year statute of limitations, and thereby renews his being subjected to federal criminal charges.
[18 US CODE, Sect. 1001; 18 US CODE, sect. 371; etc.]
_______________________________________
-
I have recently been informed that two files held by the CIA and the United States Senate have been released. (or in process of being released: (#104- 10406 & 124-90033-10059) About a year ago and again last December, I posted a reference to John Martino and Wm Pawley and other details about a 'classified CIA operation. Parts of this information can be found in the following link.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2401
I was told by Jay Harrison, in August of 2004, that Marry Ferrel, before she died, had a few of these file numbers which she had obtained a few years ago from an "inside source". However, I was told that the actual CIA references and files were classified at that time and the details were still classified as late as last October, 2005.
The named operation of the Pawley/Martino "Flying Tiger" affair (TILT) was first given to the Miami CIA Station (not JM/WAVE) in 1963 as a cutout code name.
In August of 1991 that information was confirmed in close door session by the CIA to members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. The name was a "cut-out" name and inter office CIA memos and dispatches referred to the whole operation as "REDCROSS" the 'cut-out name was used as a "LOCK" (Reference Porter Gross DCIA September 2005. Reference Senator John Kerry. Reference Dick Mc Call Senate Staff, 1991; Reference John Winer, Senate Staff. Congressman Rangley' investigative personal (sp pho? 1987)
Reference a "LOCK" a fictious name; a means to identify a leak from an inside source or a suspected double agent.
The name is put out in the main stream by an AGENT to an Operative and when the name comes back to the AGENT or Operative from an "outside" source as factual, then the informant who received the name or the one who used the planted code name and passed it on is revealed and the leak as to classified information is found .
Reference: (Operational Proceedures and Methods; CIA training Handbook for Agents, Operatives and military OMC personal. 1962)
Document References; "....Plumlee an associate of John Martino...aka William H Pearson.." Reference; FBI 302's and 104's; CIA 124's and 202's (portions remain classified as of this date)
Tosh
-
------------------------------------
W. R. Plumlee first initiated a request under the "Freedom of Information / Privacy Act" [Title 5 U.S. Code, section 552, et seq.] during early 1981. The Government responded very quickly, as there were
NO extensive redactions necessary for security purposes; other than the routine blacking out of law enforcement personnel names, and which were noted as "law enforcement exemptions"!!
The following letter was sent to Plumlee by Bernard "Bud" Fensterwald, Jr.:
Law Offices
Fensterwald & Associates
2101 L Street, N. W.
WASHINGTON, D. C. 20037
_______
(202) 785-1636
April 21, 1981
Mr. William R. Plumlee
c/o General Delivery
Bailey, Colorado 80431
Dear Tosh:
You must be special, you got your records in record
time - - if you'll pardon the pun.
Let me know what you think.
Best regards,
Bernard Fensterwald, Jr.
BF/is
enclosure
cc: Gary Shaw
Gary, We would like the Plumlee material back when you
have finished with it. Thanks
BF
------------------------------------------
RECEIVED
April 27, 1981
J. GARY SHAW, ARCH.
-----------------------------------------
The contents of these files reveal that:
[FBI "302" - CI 105-new]
Address: 3509 Lexington Avenue
Dallas, Texas
Race: White
Sex: Male
Age: 21
Date of Birth: 11/25/37
Place of Birth: Panama City Florida
Height: 5' 11"
Weight: 165
Hair: Brown, curly, pompadour
fashion
Eyes: Hazel
Build: Medium
Frame: Slender
Complexion: Medium
Teeth: Good
Scars and Marks: Upper right arm - tattoo
of eagle with shield
(U.S. Army emblem);
Left forearm - tattoo of
redbird sitting on a limb
Military Service: U. S. Army 3/53 to 7/53,
Honorable Discharge
because of minority
Social Security No.: 452-52-4723
Army Serial No.: RA 18389060
Relatives: William W. Plumlee, father,
Dallas, Texas;
C. M. MORGAN, Stepfather;
MARGARET J. MORGAN, Mother,
3509 Lexington Avenue,
Dallas, Texas;
RONNIE MORGAN, half brother,
age 10;
MURRAY DEAN MORGAN, half
brother, age 12,
address same as mother.
Education: Attended North Dallas
High School through tenth
grade;
Completed high school in
Army and correspondence
courses.
Marital Status: Divorced Dorothy Joan
Casells, 2601 Harvard,
Dallas, Texas; two boys,
age 3 and 2, and one
daughter, age four months,
born of marriage. Divorced
3/58
Plumlee furnished the following employment record
and residences:
7/54 to 7/55, Riddle Airlines, Miami, Florida
7/55 to 7/56, Delta Airlines, Dallas, Texas
7/56 to 12/56 unrecalled
1256 to 12/57, Greenfield Flying Service, West Hollywood, Florida
12/56 to 3/58, Petroleum Helicopters, Morgan City, Louisiana
4/58 to 7/58, Radio Announcer, KEPS Radio, Eagle Pass, Texas
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Plumlee never served in the U. S. Armed Forces, save for 4 months in "Recruit Basic Training"; and upon it being discovered that he was underage -- he was "Separated from Service". The document used by the Department of Defense was a "Form" printed up by the GPO for this very type of "Minority Separation"; which is completely different than that which regular members of the military are issued;
"Form DD-214".
There is no "Discharge" per se, as there has been no lawful service of enlistment. In fact, his later alleged "Army Serial Number" (RA 183890160) was immediately rescinded due to his false enlistment, and that number was later issued to another Army member. A quick check with the Department of Veterans Affairs will show that Plumlee accrued no rights to any benefits whatsoever, as he was denied re-enlistment in any branch of the U. S. Armed Forces.
Any reference by a person separated thus, and later claiming to have been granted either a "General" or "Honorable" Discharge is fraudulent, a federal criminal felony, and pursuant to 18 US Code, sect. 1001; is punishable by up to 5 years imprisonment (w/ $10,000 fine) in each and every instance where the person makes said claim(s)!!
A year after his 4 months of recruit training, the official records [confirmed by Plumlee to the FBI) employment records and residences which begin during July 1954, and continue through July 1958.
I would call attention to the fact that at age 21 [1958] he already had his self-styled "REDBIRD" tattoo, and that any association with his many other fraudulent claims. Especially the lies about his alleged "CIA JFK ABORT FLIGHT" to Redbird Airport [13 miles SW of Dallas] during November, 1963 -- and that said tattoo was a "commemorative sign" adopted by he and his cohorts subsequent to the assassination of JFK !!
MORE TO COME !!
GPH
-----------------------------------------
Any transmittal of fraudulent claims by Plumlee, especially over the Internet; voids the federal 5 year statute of limitations, and thereby renews his being subjected to federal criminal charges.
[18 US CODE, Sect. 1001; 18 US CODE, sect. 371; etc.]
_______________________________________
-
I am still waiting for somebody to "CITE" to some "AUTHORITY" when they pose an inquiry in my direction. The most recent stupidity is: Citing Tony Summer's mistake in placing Rorke, et al. at the FBI "seizure" at McLaney's "West of" LaCombe, LA property.Gerry, do you plan to take advantage of this offer?Perhaps a constructive approach would be to ask the Big Guy what "authority" he would "cite," just the name of a scribbler or tome that got something, anything, correct. The loathesome record of people who have relied upon Hemming's statements only to have him disclaim them subsequently is extensive. In the recent spate of books, Hemming is the source for assertions that RFK had direct meetings with Roselli and Oswald. So how about naming the people who have interviewed Hemming and correctly recorded his assertions (if there are any)? After all, people like Summers, Weberman, Mellen, Waldron, Hartmann, etc., either don't understand plain English or there is some more bizarre aspect to Hemmingspeak that eludes even the most sincere scribblers and bookreaders. This approach would avoid the misdirectional blather and absurdly exaggerated use of adjectives.
T.C.
-------------------------------
Yes Timmy:
IT IS A LOATHESOME RECORD. And why don't YOU cite the book(s) and page numbers of where" "...In the recent spate of books, Hemming is the 'source?' for assertions that RFK had 'DIRECT' meetings with Roselli and Oswald..."!!
One of the first [almost correct] quotes attributed to me are found in John Newman's "Oswald" book. And that was with reference to my having the "Sgt. of the Guard" (USMC) at the main gate [MCAF Santa Ana (LTA) call LHO from his barracks, to join me for a ride in the US Navy pickup truck [property of GCA-39M] for a short trip to the "Ride Pickup Hut" outside the base. [i retain a photo of said USN truck]
However, Newman was in a hurry, couldn't stay on the telephone more than about 7 minutes, and thereafter misquoted and omitted the specifics of that incident. [Maybe the editor/publisher "made-me-do-it??"]
Bradley Ayers made the very first reference to RFK having visited the "Special Training Area" in his book, "The War That Never Was". [Go buy a copy, but I would suggest awaiting any corrections to those statements in his new book, whic is due out in March]
Brad failed to identify the "exact locale" where RFK was "seen" by the "trainees"??!! Was it at the Coral Gables-by-the-Sea safehous, the Ocean Reef Resort safehouse [North Key Largo], the phony JM/WAVE "Coast Guard Station" on the point [south Key Largo, which we use before going on to No Name key],
or at the shooter/demolitions site [at the today, still unincorporated village] on Eliott Key ??!! He failed to specify as to whether "Col." Roselli was even there that, or any other, night !!
My statements to Mellen, et al. was that RFK was "SEEN" by those who were at either the Ckekika Park "Isolation Site", and/or the Avocado Drive "Isolation Site". LHO was present at either or both sites for about a week, and that it remains uncertain that he recognized RFK during the numerous visits.
I qualified ALL statements from my sources [who still refuse to speak with anyone, especially amateur tabloid trash scribblers] and suggested that there existed a strong possibility that: RFK pulled LHO's dossier after he learned of his arrest on 11/22/1963.
The people who were there with him, and those who spoke with him during the intervening months, refuse to comment upon same!! Because, as far as they are concerned, and so violently state: "IT IS NOBODY'S BUSINESSBUT THEIR OWN, AND THEY DON'T EVEN DISCUSS SAID MATTERS AMONGST THEMSELVES OR WITH THEIR FAMILIES!!"
Mellen was pissed off because those sources refused to speak with her -- "...Even after 40+ years..??"!!
And I am going to "cite-to-authority" for a punk bookreader ??!! Dream on !! I was there, but it is now my fault that you have wasted man/girl hours on bullxxxx books, postings, tabloids, and the bile from agenda driven "NOTHINGS/NOBODYS" !!
Mellen suspected that Russo had interviewed those sources, and that they had given him the "whole story".
That was [and remains today] NOT the case !! Russo was extremely limited to ONLY those inquiries relating to a very few "specific" matters. That is exactly why I instructed my daughter to stop the taping, when Angelo made reference to "Benny" and LHO!! THAT was NONE of Russo's business, and none of anybody else's business, especially those voyeuristic tabloid trash scribblers, their readers, AND THE HORSE THEY RODE IN ON !!
DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS UNDERSTANDING THE FOREGOING ?? Or do you remain deluded by your "Self Importance" -- enough that you will continue with your failed, and worthless attempts at "cajoling" information even more information -- for "hard copy"!! Check-out what is available on the Internet, and should you encounter problems sorting out the bullxxxx from the few facts, let me know -- VIA TITLE & PAGE NUMBER.
When I told Bob Brown [sOF/Mag] about the "Bayo/Pawley Operation" during our operations in Peru [1970],
he later told quite a few folks that this was all more of "Patrick's Bullxxxx". When he called Billings some months later, and Billings directed him to the lawsuit files (Cantin, et al. vs: LIFE, Wm. D. Pawley, et al.) and the records of the subsequent financial settlements, one would think that an apology was forthcoming.
And where is the response to my repeated queries as to the source of the bullxxxx acronym "Operation Tilt"??!!
This "pooh-poohing" by scriveners was exactly the case, when Turner and Hinckle first picked up the story from me, and then got the 'brush-off" from Brown. But still NO apologies; SO NO MORE INTERVIEWS WILL BE GIVEN IN ABEYANCE OF SAME !!
Turner and Hinckle swallowed the "Tooshee Tale" about the "Thor II" leaving the docks at Marathon, even despite the fact that there were NO docks at Marathon. The dock where we were arrest [Dec. 1962] was on Sombrero Key, at a CIA safehouse, located right next door to ther "Radio Americas" CIA antenna. My FBI files show exactly where mechanic/janitor [and serial check bouncer] "Tooshee" was on that day, and day after day, year after year before, and since that crap !!
PLEASE. Somebody defend him, and I will FAX his whole goddamn file to John forthwith !!
Read the CIA Inspector General [and other] reports, to wit: The motor vessel (M/V) Thor II was NEVER seaworthy, was NEVER afloat, and was therefore: NEVER USED by JM/WAVE, nor any other WH-3 or 4, or SAS Staff entities !! The Tejana II, and the ex-US Navy PCS & YMS vessels; "REX", "LEDA", "STAR", "VENUS", etc. were used quite often over many years.
Any quotes or citations by Lamar or Thom came from extensive e-mails [to a list-group] and/or a couple of brief telephone calls. NO face-to-face interviews ever ocurred. Had they taken the time out from their busy 17 year schedule, there would be fewer assumptions, omissions, and conclusions -- which are now open to challenges.
Timmy, if you have the time, and I realize that you are a busy "person?" -- kindly cite the alleged quotes, and I will attempt to respond in due time. BUT, I am not going to give you sufficient materiel force necessary for: Either your publishing dreams, your diary, nor for party talk with your boyfriends !!
Chairs,
GPH
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Gerry, do you plan to take advantage of this offer?
----------------------------
John:
Are you asking that I make corrections to the "Spartacus Bio", Weberman's
thousands of distortions, prolix, etc. -- or am I to go to my bookself and pull down the two dozen plus books with my name in the index; or maybe the 8,000+ files [not pages, but multiple page "Files"] from every agency including the HSCA ?? Patricia Orr's HSCA chronology is over 100+ pages.
And just where do I start this mammoth tome ? I get 200+ e-mails every day, and my carpal limits the time and opportunity to be on the keyboard.
Do you want me to start with March, 1961 -- where I was tasked to take Gene Sherman of the Los Angeles Times to Miami [and elsewhere] in order that we might derail [sabotage, foul-up, expose, detour, circumvent, delay, etc.] the then confirmed "Invasion of Cuba Plan" ??
So far, very few of the members have bothered to ask specific questions as to exactly how the hell my name was brought into the JFK matter, first by Hoover [1964], and then by Garrison [1966] ??!!
Am I to correct the vagueries or conflicts found in the FBI, CIA, etc. versus the private scribblings of misinformed [or slothful, or mislead, or mis-spoke, or "Ms."lied to] scribblers & authors ??!! Even the massive amount of time spent by the numerous HSCA "investigators??" while they stumbled and bumbled through the "Hemming Cuban scene" is totally contradictory !! Am I expected to correct their wet-dreams with a wave of my "social" finger ??
First off, there never was a connection between InterPen and Sturgis, especially his Int'l Anti-Communist Brigade [and ALL of its 4 members]!!
Sturgis attempted to insinuate this, so that he could continue scamming money from Norm Rothman, Perez Jimenez, Rojas Pinilla, et al.!! But it didn't work out because: They all discovered that I had "inherited" the few remaining members of his phony group. He lied to the press [with the assistance of "Jimmy" Buchanan of the Fla. Sun Sentinel], and just like so many of the other lazy scribblers who followed, they took the easy way out, by avoiding & evading proper research and interviews. Thus they continued on to repeat, over and again, this same worthless tabloid trash.
I am still waiting for somebody to "CITE" to some "AUTHORITY" when they pose an inquiry in my direction. The most recent stupidity is: Citing Tony Summer's mistake in placing Rorke, et al. at the FBI "seizure" at McLaney's "West of" LaCombe, LA property. I will once again [sometime later this week] explain exactly WHY there was no SEIZURE of anything, especially the dynamite!! No guns, no airplanes, no trains, no firetrucks, no alligators, and NO TRAINING CAMPS !!
Chairs,
GPH
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Hemming Sir, Seems some type of aviation at LaCombe LA sgThe following was an article that was published in the May 1999 Issue of the Fourth Decade.
The Glaze Letters
William Weston
May 1999
Among the boxes forming the sniper's nest were four that had twenty-eight identifiable prints. Traceable to Oswald were two palmprints and one fingerprint. Twenty-four prints were made by two law enforcement officials, but one palmprint could not be identified. The unmatched print might mean an accomplice. Or maybe someone was innocently moving boxes from one place to another. [1] To settle the matter, the FBI needed a set of prints from everyone employed at the Texas School Book Depository - a total of sixty-nine people. It was a simple procedure, quick and easy, and no one should have had any complaints about disruptions or delays. Notwithstanding, the agency ran smack into an unexpected wall of resistance. In a letter to the Warren Commission, J. Edgar Hoover tried to explain why the Bureau failed to do its job.
Mr. Roy S. Truly, Warehouse Superintendent, who has been very cooperative with this Bureau in the past, strongly objected to the printing of all employees as he felt it would seriously handicap the work of his firm. Mr. Truly stated there are about twenty employees who would have had occasion to handle the cartons in question and he desired the printing to be limited to this group. [2]
As a result of these objections, the FBI was forced to modify its demand according to the limitation imposed. How could this happen? How could a mere warehouse manager dictate to a law enforcement agency as powerful as the FBI what it could, or could not do, in the investigation of a crime as serious as the assassination of the President? Were Hoover's agents always so timid with people who refused to cooperate? No, for in Jean Hill's book, The Last Dissenting Witness, a Dallas motorcycle officer, J. B. Marshall, was quoted as saying, "The Feds are tearing our whole department to pieces . . . they tell 'em, 'If you don't cooperate, we'll take your badge.' . . . they've been especially rough on all the guys who were on motorcade duty that day." [3] Still another victim was Marina Oswald, who was told that if she did not cooperate, she would be forced to leave the country. [4] These examples demonstrate a stern resolve to squash even the mildest of troublemakers. Why then should the FBI meekly tolerate a slap in the face from someone at the Book Depository? Did the warehouse manager have some clout that even Hoover had to respect? If so, it is difficult to understand where this clout came from. The innocence of anyone working in that particular building was far from certain in the eyes of suspicious investigators.
Whatever might be said in the ongoing debate concerning the number of bullets whizzing through Dealey Plaza, it is a fact that the Book Depository was a source location. On the premises was at least one hit team, including a leader, a sniper, a radioman, and two or three watchers to secure the escape route. It was also the staging area of the patsy, who had to be controlled and moved around in such a way that he would be in a credible position to take the blame. To keep the risks of exposure to a minimum, the conspirators had to have complete control over the building. How they managed to accomplish this is a question that remains to be answered.
Six years ago I received from Larry Ray Harris a copy of a letter that sheds some light on this issue. Written by a Mr. Glaze to the Alternative Information Network in Austin, Texas on June 2, 1989, this letter mentioned an earlier letter that was sent to the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA). Recently I was able to get a copy of the earlier letter from the National Archives. Through a comparison of the details in both letters, I have been able to produce the following narrative.
In late 1974, while working as a journalist in Dallas, Glaze met a woman who began working for the Book Depository in 1969 - six years after the assassination. (She was no longer working there at the time she spoke to Glaze.) Her supervisor was William Shelley. The company, she said, had a strange way of introducing new employees to their duties. She and another new employee were approached by two men, who produced I.D. wallets and identified themselves as "government agents." They were taken to an empty room and given questionnaires to fill out. These exams were full of oddly irrelevant questions, calling for opinions on various topics of the day, especially social issues. Obediently the two employees wrote out their answers. When they were done, they gave the sheets back, and in the short pause that followed, one of the examiners bluntly asked: "Have you been recruited by the FBI or the CIA?" The two employees were stunned. As ordinary office workers, they were only doing minor clerical tasks at low wages. Why would anyone think that they came from the FBI or the CIA? While it was true that the Book Depository had acquired the notoriety of being the place where Oswald shot the President, still by 1969 that should have been ancient history. Yet even more disturbing were the next questions that came to mind. If the Book Depository was just an insignificant, little company, why would it be attracting the attention of the two biggest intelligence establishments in the country? Furthermore, what was the intrigue that was spurring these "government agents" to hunt down unwanted infiltrators?
Glaze asked the woman if she and her co-worker were the only ones subjected to this kind of treatment. No, they were not the only ones. Background checks on new employees were done as a routine procedure at the Book Depository. After listening to the woman's account, Glaze decided to check it out. He contacted her former supervisor, William Shelley, and asked to meet with him. Shelley agreed to this request and even allowed the reporter to take notes and use a tape recorder. The meeting took place at the Book Depository warehouse near the intersection of Royal Lane and Interstate 35 on the far northwest side of Dallas. (The company had moved from its old location on 411 Elm Street in 1970.) The information that Glaze was gathering must have been extensive, for the two men had numerous meetings together. Yet only a few disclosures are provided in the letters. The most significant one appears in the 1989 letter: "Mr. Shelley claims to have been an intelligence officer during World War II and thereafter joined the CIA." This extraordinary revelation goes far in explaining the mysteries of the Book Depository, and a discussion of its implications will be given later in this article.
Shelley told Glaze that he had been the supervisor of Lee Harvey Oswald. After the assassination, the Dallas police placed Shelley under arrest and formally charged him with the murder of the President. (No mention was made by Glaze as to why Shelley had been arrested, nor did he say what connection this arrest had with the arrest of Oswald.) The charges against Shelley were soon dropped, and he was released. Since that day, at various times, journalists representing several newspapers and magazines approached him with offers of huge sums of money for his personal account of the assassination. These offers were all turned down. When Glaze tried to get permission to quote him in his own article, Shelley refused and insisted that even his name was not to be printed.
In spite of this setback, Glaze was not discouraged. He went back to the woman and told her that he was doing a story on the Book Depository. He was going to talk to the FBI and possibly get some more information. When the woman heard this, she was absolutely appalled. The very idea that he was writing an article filled her with terror. She told him that if he persisted in his efforts to publicize this story, she would emphatically deny everything she told him. The prospects for an article irretrievably came to an end, and Glaze had no choice but to go home empty-handed.
It was not long after his departure that he felt obliged to speak to the woman again. What he intended to say is not mentioned in his letters, but perhaps he wanted to make an apology. In any case, it was only a few hours after he last saw her that he decided to see her again.
When he arrived at her apartment, he was surprised to find it totally empty. It looked as if no one had ever lived there. Glaze knew that she had a husband and a child, and they too were gone. The mystified reporter could not understand how three people could have moved away so quickly. The next day he went to the woman's place of employment and found out that she never showed up for work, and no one knew where she was. Later inquiries revealed that she did not even stop by to pick up her final paycheck. In his quest to find them, the most promising lead Glaze had was the fact that the husband had once been a musician in "The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band." Yet even this fortuitous bit of information got him nowhere. Not one acquaintance or associate had any idea where they could have gone.
About the same time as he was conducting his search, Glaze went to get his interview notes and tapes and found that they had inexplicably disappeared. Then one day, he heard a commotion outside his apartment. He looked out the window and saw an estimated twenty Dallas policemen pulled up in front. They lingered for nearly an hour, shouting in a highly threatening manner and pointing their pistols at his window. Frightened for his life, he immediately left the city.
On December 12, 1977, while working as a reporter for the Avalanche Journal in Lubbock, Texas, he sent a letter to the HSCA. He wrote that he had some information regarding the assassination of President Kennedy and gave a brief sketch of his investigation of the Book Depository. In the closing paragraphs of his letter, he wrote, "I must admit that my own fear of getting involved in the investigation has prevented me from writing you earlier. I apologize." [5]
Whether or not the HSCA had taken an interest in this matter is not known. The only reply it sent was a form letter, which read: "Dear Ms. Glaze [The HSCA had mistakenly thought he was a woman], Thank you for your letter. It has been directed to the Deputy Chief Counsel in charge of the investigation for his review. Your interest in the work of our Committee is appreciated. Sincerely, G. Robert Blakey, Chief Counsel and Director." [6]
Eleven years later, Glaze wrote a letter to Doug Kellner and Frank Morrow of The Alternative Information Network. [7] He also sent them a copy of the reply that he got from Blakey. Somehow a copy of both these letters ended up in the hands of Larry Ray Harris. In his own letter to me, Harris wrote: "I don't recall its origins with clarity, but I think it was given to me by a professor at Southern Methodist University here in Dallas. Regardless, it ended up in my files around the time we opened the JFK Center in 1989. I don't know that anyone has ever looked into it. It could be a hoax, but sounds sincere. It would be easy to verify (1) if a reporter named Glaze has ever worked for the Lubbock newspaper; (2) if a journalist named Glaze was living in Dallas in 1974/1975; and (3) if there is/was an 'Alternative Information Network' in Austin, or if Kellner and Morrow are real persons and remember receiving the letter. If it is true that Shelley was affiliated in some way with CIA or U.S. Intelligence, that would be a disturbing and potentially significant development." [8]
When I first began my inquiry, I was hampered by a minor problem. The signature at the bottom of the letter was blacked out. Fortunately the salutation "Dear Ms. Glaze" on the HSCA letter was not. I thus had a clue that the first name must be some gender neutral type such as Robin or Terry. In January 1993, I called up the Avalanche Journal and asked for Mr. Glaze. No one by that name was currently employed. Neither were there any records of a Glaze in the files of the personnel department. Yet the absence of records did not necessarily mean he never worked there; it was a regular practice to discard the records of former employees after three years. Was there anyone who had been around long enough to remember a journalist named Glaze? The personnel director said that she had been with the paper for about as long as anyone, since 1982, and she never knew anyone by that name.
I next tried to reach either Kellner or Morrow at the Alternative Information Network. Kellner was the one who took my call. I told him who I was and that I had a letter addressed to him and his partner regarding the Kennedy assassination. After I read the contents, Kellner said he never got it. It was odd, he said, that I should have a letter in which he was named as a recipient but he had never seen it. He asked that a copy be sent to his home - not to the business - and after he read it, he would check into it. Two weeks later I made a follow-up phone call and asked Kellner if he found out anything. He said that he showed the letter to Morrow, who said that he vaguely remembered it but could not give any additional information regarding the contents or the author who wrote it.
That was as far as I got in 1993. In February 1999, a researcher named Steve Gaal checked the National Archives web site and found that someone named Glaze had written to the HSCA. That was when I finally had the full name of the reporter: Elzie Dean Glaze. A search of the Internet revealed that a man with this same name has a current e-mail address in Austin, Texas. I sent two messages to that address, but so far I received no response.
The next lead that had to be tracked down was the identity of the man who had been a member of the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band. The band started out in 1966 as a jug band in Long Beach, California. They became known for their unique blend of country western and rock and roll. Among the original musicians were John McEuen, Jeff Hanna, Bruce Kunkel, Ralph Barr, Leslie Thompson, and Jimmie Fadden. After appearing in a movie calledPaint Your Wagon, the band went through some hard times. In 1968 a meeting was held in the manager's Hollywood office, and the group decided to dissolve. Les Thompson ended the meeting with a question: "Does that mean we don't hafta practice anymore?" He then went to Texas to enroll in a bulldozer school. A year or two later, the members of the band, with the exception of Kunkel and Barr, decided to try again. A new member from Philadelphia named Jimmie Ibbotson was added on. This time they achieved commercial success, and in 1970 a song called "Mr. Bojangles" became a top ten hit. Sometime prior to 1974, Les Thompson left the band again. In 1977 the group acquired the distinction of being the first American band to tour the Soviet Union. They are still going strong today, having released a new album called Bang! Bang! Bang! in May 1999. [9]
In an attempt to get more information, I sent them a letter, along with copies of the Glaze correspondence. In a follow-up phone call, I spoke with the manager, and he told me that he talked with the two musicians who had been with the band from the beginning. They said that it has been a such long time since they heard from the early members, that they were unable to provide any information as to where they went or what they had been doing. [10]
With nothing else to go, I would say that the musician spoken of by Glaze was probably Leslie Thompson. He was the only one who went to Texas, and he might have stayed there long enough to establish long-term ties with some of the people in that state.
Having gone as far as I could in checking the authenticity of the Glaze letters, the next thing that needs to be done is to cross-check the information contained in them with what we know about William Shelley.
At the time the assassination occurred, Shelley was, according to his testimony, standing on the steps of the Book Depository with Billy Lovelady and Wesley Frazier. [11] The James Altgens photograph of the limousine under fire confirms the presence of Lovelady on the steps but not Shelley or Frazier. About a minute after the assassination, two female employees in the Book Depository came down the stairs and saw Shelley and Lovelady in the back of the building just about in front of the two freight elevators. One lady said, "I believe the President has been shot." Curiously, neither Shelley nor Lovelady said anything in reply. [12] After the two women ran out the back door, Roy Truly and Police Officer Marion Baker rushed in through the front door. They were going up to the roof to search for a gunman. According to Baker's testimony, he saw two white men sitting by the stairs. [13] According to Shelley, he and Lovelady were appointed by Truly to guard the stairs and elevators. [14]
In any reconstruction of what was happening with the stairs and elevators, it is obvious that Shelley and Lovelady must have seen the escape of one of the assassins. About a minute or two after Truly and Baker went up the stairs, a witness on the street saw a man in a dark sportcoat running out the back door. This man was no doubt the same one seen at a fifth floor window standing next to a man armed with a rifle. After the shooting ended, the man in the dark sportcoat took an elevator down to the ground floor, while at the same time Truly and Baker were going up the stairs. As the culprit headed for the back door, he would have had to pass Shelley and Lovelady in order to exit the building. [15]
About a minute or two after the man in the dark sportcoat dashed out the back door, NBC news reporter Robert MacNeil came in through the front door. In a written account of what he saw, he said that he was surprised to see three men, totally oblivious to the chaos outside, standing by a pay phone.
I went immediately into the clear space on the ground floor and asked where there was a phone. There were, as I recall, three men there, all I think in shirt sleeves. What, on recollection, strikes me as possibly significant is that all three seemed to be exceedingly calm and relaxed, compared to the pandemonium which existed right outside their front door. I did not pay attention to this at the time. I asked the first man I saw – a man who was telephoning from a pillar in the middle of the room – where I could call from. He directed me to another man nearer the door, who pointed to an office. When I got to the phone, two of the lines were lit up. I made my call and left. . . . I was in too much of a hurry to remember what the three men looked like. But their manner was very relaxed. [16]
MacNeil's amazement at the strange placidity of the three men is indicated by the way he repeated this observation for emphasis. The man using the pay phone was quite probably Shelley, for in an affidavit made out that same afternoon, Shelley said, "I went back into the building and went inside and called my wife and told her what happened." [17]
About a minute or two after MacNeil saw the three calm men - between 12:35 and 12:40 - Oswald had a five-to-ten minute chat with the assistant manager. According to an FBI report of the first interrogation of Oswald in the Dallas homocide office:
OSWALD stated that [at the time of the assassination] he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employees lunch room. He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman BILL SHELLEY, and thereafter went home. He stated that he left work because, in his opinion, based upon remarks of BILL SHELLEY, he did not believe that there was going to be any more work that day due to the confusion in the building. [18]
The timing and location of Oswald's departure from the Book Depository correlates exactly with the appearance of a Nash Rambler on Elm Street driven by a dark-skinned man. Between 12:40 and 12:45, Deputy Roger Craig heard a loud whistle and looked up to see Oswald running down the grassy slope in front of the Book Depository. Oswald opened the passenger side door of the Nash Rambler and got in. The car was last seen speeding towards Oak Cliff, where the shooting of Officer Tippit was to occur twenty to thirty minutes later. If Oswald had been talking to Shelley prior to his departure, then there can be no doubt that Shelley had seen him getting away.
Not long after Oswald left the scene, Shelley told Truly that Oswald was missing. (How he came to this conclusion was never publicly disclosed.) A roll call of warehouse employees was made, and it was determined that Oswald was indeed absent. Truly notified Police Captain Will Fritz, who immediately thought that it was "important to hold that man." [19]
The above noted actions seem to indicate that Shelley was very close to the conspiracy, if not actually participating in it. Assuming that the police really had arrested him and charged him with the assassination, they certainly would have had ample cause. For one thing, they would have known that Shelley was in charge of a work crew that spent the entire morning on the same floor where the sniper's nest, rifle, and empty cartridges were found. Secondly, the accused assassin had named Shelley as the one who told him he could leave. Thirdly, the police knew about the Nash Rambler story as early as 5:00 in the afternoon, when Roger Craig reported it to them. Finally, Shelley might not have been entirely candid in how he came to realize that Oswald was missing. No doubt Shelley was asked a lot of questions, and it is possible that he was kept in custody until he gave some satisfactory answers. Admittedly, there is no record of Shelley being arrested, but that does not necessarily mean Glaze was wrong. Missing evidence could just as easily be due to the systematic destruction of anything contrary to the official version.
The presence of an agent, or an ex-agent, of the CIA at the Book Depository would explain a great deal regarding how the conspirators managed to get their gunmen on the premises. Let us now look into Shelley's background to see what additional corroboration can be shed on this matter.
According to statements made to the police and to the Warren Commission, Shelley was born in Gunter, Texas in 1925. During World War Two, he worked "a little bit" in defense plants. On October 29, 1945 at the age of nineteen or twenty he began working for the Book Depository. Eighteen years later, in 1963, he was holding the position of assistant manager of the "miscellaneous department." [20] By 1975, when Glaze talked to him, he had passed his thirtieth anniversary in the company. Such a long career in one place is confirmed in the listings of the city directories. In 1947 he was listed as a clerk at the Hugh Perry Book Depository (the old name for the Texas School Book Depository), and he had a room at 515 Martinique Avenue. In 1960 he was a department manager; his wife's name was Marie; and they lived in a house on 126 Tatum Avenue. They were still living in that house at the time of the assassination.
Although the facts are few, the picture is clear. Shelley was a simple desk clerk and warehouse man, content to live out his working life under the roof of one company. He certainly did not fit the image of a globetrotting CIA operative, embarking on secret missions with the latest in high tech weaponry. Even if we can assume that he really had been an intelligence officer during World War Two, it does not seem possible that he could have joined the CIA afterwards. The agency did not even come into existence until two years after Shelley got his job at the Book Depository.
It would thus appear that we have an irreconcilable situation; Shelley could not have been in the CIA before his employment at the Book Depository. Yet I believe that a seemingly irresolvable problem might on closer examination yield a solution that brings a deeper understanding of the truth. Let us take a different approach. Let us suppose that the job at the Book Depository was concurrent with a career in the CIA. If we can assume that is true, then the Book Depository itself must have been a front for CIA activities.
While it is commonly acknowledged that the agency has too much influence in national affairs, it is still amazing to find its hand in such a wide diversity of organizations and institutions. These include such entities as labor unions, airlines, college student associations, foundations, law firms, banks, savings and loans, investment firms, travel agencies, police departments, post offices, publishing companies, newspapers, call girl services, and mental health institutions. Considering the far-reaching extent of control over so many different areas in American society, it does not seem reasonable to suppose that the CIA would have the moral restraint to make an exception of the Book Depository - provided, of course, that the control of it would further its goals in some way.
If CIA operators had been working inside the building in which the Book Depository was located, they would have not been on unfriendly ground. The property itself was owned by a wealthy, right-wing Texas oilman named D. H. Byrd. He was also a colonel in the Civil Air Patrol, which included among its members Lee Harvey Oswald and David Ferrie. That Ferrie and Oswald knew each other was proven in a 1993 Frontline special on Oswald, in which former cadets Tony Atzenhoffer and Johnny Ciravola displayed a picture showing Ferrie and Oswald at a cadet campout near New Orleans. What is not so well known is that the two men also knew Colonel Byrd. Atzenhoffer told this author that Byrd was the "head honcho" of the Civil Air Patrol in Louisiana and Texas, and that he came to Moissant Airport to give speeches on special occasions, such as orientation sessions for new cadets. [21] Since there is no question that CAP members Ferrie and Oswald were associated with the CIA, it would only be logical to assume that their commander was too.
Another member of the Louisiana Civil Air Patrol who was an associate of the CIA was Barry Seal, a notorious drug smuggler who set up the Mena Airport operation in Arkansas in the early 1980's and later got involved in the Iran-Contra scandal. He was murdered in 1986 by three Colombian hitmen. Seal first got his pilot's license in Baton Rouge on July 16, 1954, when he was sixteen years old. According to a high school friend, Seal was well acquainted with David Ferrie.
One Friday evening while we were in high school, I got a call from Barry, asking if I'd like to fly over to Lacombe with him in the morning, a little town on the north shore across Lake Ponchartrain from New Orleans. We left about 5:30 and flew over to the little airport there and Barry and I get out of the plane, and here's this really weird-looking guy, dressed all in black, sitting in a director's chair on the tarmac, and he's drilling a bunch of Civil Air Patrol guys that are standing in formation in front of him. They were carrying old M-1s. His name was David Ferrie. He was a captain in the Louisiana Civil Air Patrol. . . . See, Barry was making $400 a week in high school flying for David Ferrie. . . .
On the flight back, Barry shouted over the engine. "That weird looking guy? He's got no hair on his body! It's why he's wearing a wig! Get up close, he's even got fake eyebrows, and fake eyelashes, but . . . that weirdo's a big-time pilot and works with the CIA.
Seal and his friend also talked about the wooden crates that Ferrie and Seal were examining. They contained guns and ammo, Seal explained to his friend, and he would be transporting this cargo on the weekend. Ferrie was paying him $400 a week to fly this stuff. $400 was a great deal of money in the mid-1950's. [22]
If the CIA was using Byrd's chapter of the Civil Air Patrol to transport illegal shipments of guns and ammo, then what could have prevented them from using Byrd's property on the corner of Elm and Houston for the same purpose? Since Dallas was a source of munitions going to New Orleans in the drive to overthrow leftist governments in Central and South America, then a way had to be found to move them secretly. Big, heavy boxes marked "Schoolbooks" would have been a handy way of delivering the goods. Perhaps that was what the "miscellaneous department" of the Book Depository was all about.
__________________________
http://www.careersinsite.org/namedesc-1-LA...E-Louisiana.htm
Someone posted to you ++ and you did not reply ??
Dear Mr. Hemming,
Sorry to see your old friend hitting on hard times. Not to change the subject, [it's really the same subject]. Rumsfeld muses, "What electrode would Jesus use?" Some of us are concerned about how one human treats another. Some of us are also concerned about justice - to know the why, and the "WHO." Pinochet is a monster and an international criminal. Those who helped him rise to power should IMHO, be tried with him. You know what the D.A. says about criminals, "If you can't get them for one crime, you can get them for another." I'm sure you get my drift.
-----------------------------------
r AIRCRAFT
Aircraft Informations
Registrant’s Name : MCDERMOTT DONALD R AIRCRAFT
Address : PO BOX 916
LACOMBE
Registrant’s State : LOUISIANA
Registrant’s Zip Code : 70445-0916
Registrant’s Region : SOUTHWESTERN
Type Registrant : INDIVIDUAL
County Mail : US
Last Action Date : 20030715
Certificate Issue Date : 20000721
Certification : STANDARD,NORMAL
Type Aircraft : FIXED WING SINGLE ENGINE
Type Engine : RECIPROCATING
Status Code : THE TRIENNIAL AIRCRAFT REGISTRATION FORM WAS MAILED AND HAS NOT BEEN RETURNED BY THE POST OFFICE
Aircraft Transponder Code : 50024357
Airworthiness Date : 19750609
N-Number : 1093L
----------------------------------------------
Why don't you give Mr. McDermott a call and see if indeed his "registered" aircraft is at the Slidell, LA airport
as there is NO airport at LaCombe.
As is the routine (SOP), he has "registered" his aircraft "N1093L" using his lawful domicile, OR where he has a business, OR where he receives mail -- such as his PO Box !!
As a "Koinky-Dink", there are two owners of aircraft who curently reside at No Name Key, FL -- but there aircraft are parked at the Marathon "T-Hangers" some 18 miles distant. NO, there has never been an airstrip at No Name Key either -- but there are at least two "AIRCRAFT OWNERS who reside there [one on bard a houseboat).
Check out the LaCombe Airport located in Alberta, Canada -- mayhaps that was the one Garrison had his sights set upon.
As for not responding to an e-mail which I NEVER received -- you have my permission to obtain my e-mail address from John Simkin. Also, I have had a lot of problems with this Forum message (e-mail) set-up; and i have had to sweep my PC for over an hour after just attempting to track said missives. My PC guru brother states that this is due to the Forum ISP protcting its bandwidth, which is why I sign on only for short periods. I have regularly picked up an average of.......just got jammed again !! My freebie download "BeClean" regurlarly discovers 20+ registry entries, and about 40+ unnecessary files -- which I delete every time I sign off of the Forum. Try it out. Google both "BeClean" & "MyCleaner" for good security practices -- you will be amazed at how your hard-drive is loaded up with extraneous trash.
GPH
___________________________
---------------------------------
SOUTHERN NATURAL GAS CO.
General Info
Country United States
State LOUISIANA
FAA ID 3LA2
Latitude 30-16-50.706N
Longitude 089-57-15.255W
Elevation 0 feet
Near City LACOMBE
Source: NFD
Note: NFD-derived records are still actively being developed. They might not be up to date, and could still contain errors or omissions. Check back often!
-------------------------------------------------
Southern Natural Gas has a licensed HELICOPTER PAD at that site, just as the Houma Regional medical and dozens of other have HELICOPTER LANDING PADS !!
GIVE THEM A CALL.
A far better twist would have been: "...Well, once the bombs were ready and the "Gusanos" trained...it was only a short truck ride to Slidell Airport..or Mandeville...or even Hammind..."!! Which means diddly squat once again !!
Could you clarify exactly WHO is that "Old Freind" who is hitting on hard times ??!!
____________________________--
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Hemming Sir, Seems some type of aviation at LaCombe LA sgThe following was an article that was published in the May 1999 Issue of the Fourth Decade.
The Glaze Letters
William Weston
May 1999
Among the boxes forming the sniper's nest were four that had twenty-eight identifiable prints. Traceable to Oswald were two palmprints and one fingerprint. Twenty-four prints were made by two law enforcement officials, but one palmprint could not be identified. The unmatched print might mean an accomplice. Or maybe someone was innocently moving boxes from one place to another. [1] To settle the matter, the FBI needed a set of prints from everyone employed at the Texas School Book Depository - a total of sixty-nine people. It was a simple procedure, quick and easy, and no one should have had any complaints about disruptions or delays. Notwithstanding, the agency ran smack into an unexpected wall of resistance. In a letter to the Warren Commission, J. Edgar Hoover tried to explain why the Bureau failed to do its job.
Mr. Roy S. Truly, Warehouse Superintendent, who has been very cooperative with this Bureau in the past, strongly objected to the printing of all employees as he felt it would seriously handicap the work of his firm. Mr. Truly stated there are about twenty employees who would have had occasion to handle the cartons in question and he desired the printing to be limited to this group. [2]
As a result of these objections, the FBI was forced to modify its demand according to the limitation imposed. How could this happen? How could a mere warehouse manager dictate to a law enforcement agency as powerful as the FBI what it could, or could not do, in the investigation of a crime as serious as the assassination of the President? Were Hoover's agents always so timid with people who refused to cooperate? No, for in Jean Hill's book, The Last Dissenting Witness, a Dallas motorcycle officer, J. B. Marshall, was quoted as saying, "The Feds are tearing our whole department to pieces . . . they tell 'em, 'If you don't cooperate, we'll take your badge.' . . . they've been especially rough on all the guys who were on motorcade duty that day." [3] Still another victim was Marina Oswald, who was told that if she did not cooperate, she would be forced to leave the country. [4] These examples demonstrate a stern resolve to squash even the mildest of troublemakers. Why then should the FBI meekly tolerate a slap in the face from someone at the Book Depository? Did the warehouse manager have some clout that even Hoover had to respect? If so, it is difficult to understand where this clout came from. The innocence of anyone working in that particular building was far from certain in the eyes of suspicious investigators.
Whatever might be said in the ongoing debate concerning the number of bullets whizzing through Dealey Plaza, it is a fact that the Book Depository was a source location. On the premises was at least one hit team, including a leader, a sniper, a radioman, and two or three watchers to secure the escape route. It was also the staging area of the patsy, who had to be controlled and moved around in such a way that he would be in a credible position to take the blame. To keep the risks of exposure to a minimum, the conspirators had to have complete control over the building. How they managed to accomplish this is a question that remains to be answered.
Six years ago I received from Larry Ray Harris a copy of a letter that sheds some light on this issue. Written by a Mr. Glaze to the Alternative Information Network in Austin, Texas on June 2, 1989, this letter mentioned an earlier letter that was sent to the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA). Recently I was able to get a copy of the earlier letter from the National Archives. Through a comparison of the details in both letters, I have been able to produce the following narrative.
In late 1974, while working as a journalist in Dallas, Glaze met a woman who began working for the Book Depository in 1969 - six years after the assassination. (She was no longer working there at the time she spoke to Glaze.) Her supervisor was William Shelley. The company, she said, had a strange way of introducing new employees to their duties. She and another new employee were approached by two men, who produced I.D. wallets and identified themselves as "government agents." They were taken to an empty room and given questionnaires to fill out. These exams were full of oddly irrelevant questions, calling for opinions on various topics of the day, especially social issues. Obediently the two employees wrote out their answers. When they were done, they gave the sheets back, and in the short pause that followed, one of the examiners bluntly asked: "Have you been recruited by the FBI or the CIA?" The two employees were stunned. As ordinary office workers, they were only doing minor clerical tasks at low wages. Why would anyone think that they came from the FBI or the CIA? While it was true that the Book Depository had acquired the notoriety of being the place where Oswald shot the President, still by 1969 that should have been ancient history. Yet even more disturbing were the next questions that came to mind. If the Book Depository was just an insignificant, little company, why would it be attracting the attention of the two biggest intelligence establishments in the country? Furthermore, what was the intrigue that was spurring these "government agents" to hunt down unwanted infiltrators?
Glaze asked the woman if she and her co-worker were the only ones subjected to this kind of treatment. No, they were not the only ones. Background checks on new employees were done as a routine procedure at the Book Depository. After listening to the woman's account, Glaze decided to check it out. He contacted her former supervisor, William Shelley, and asked to meet with him. Shelley agreed to this request and even allowed the reporter to take notes and use a tape recorder. The meeting took place at the Book Depository warehouse near the intersection of Royal Lane and Interstate 35 on the far northwest side of Dallas. (The company had moved from its old location on 411 Elm Street in 1970.) The information that Glaze was gathering must have been extensive, for the two men had numerous meetings together. Yet only a few disclosures are provided in the letters. The most significant one appears in the 1989 letter: "Mr. Shelley claims to have been an intelligence officer during World War II and thereafter joined the CIA." This extraordinary revelation goes far in explaining the mysteries of the Book Depository, and a discussion of its implications will be given later in this article.
Shelley told Glaze that he had been the supervisor of Lee Harvey Oswald. After the assassination, the Dallas police placed Shelley under arrest and formally charged him with the murder of the President. (No mention was made by Glaze as to why Shelley had been arrested, nor did he say what connection this arrest had with the arrest of Oswald.) The charges against Shelley were soon dropped, and he was released. Since that day, at various times, journalists representing several newspapers and magazines approached him with offers of huge sums of money for his personal account of the assassination. These offers were all turned down. When Glaze tried to get permission to quote him in his own article, Shelley refused and insisted that even his name was not to be printed.
In spite of this setback, Glaze was not discouraged. He went back to the woman and told her that he was doing a story on the Book Depository. He was going to talk to the FBI and possibly get some more information. When the woman heard this, she was absolutely appalled. The very idea that he was writing an article filled her with terror. She told him that if he persisted in his efforts to publicize this story, she would emphatically deny everything she told him. The prospects for an article irretrievably came to an end, and Glaze had no choice but to go home empty-handed.
It was not long after his departure that he felt obliged to speak to the woman again. What he intended to say is not mentioned in his letters, but perhaps he wanted to make an apology. In any case, it was only a few hours after he last saw her that he decided to see her again.
When he arrived at her apartment, he was surprised to find it totally empty. It looked as if no one had ever lived there. Glaze knew that she had a husband and a child, and they too were gone. The mystified reporter could not understand how three people could have moved away so quickly. The next day he went to the woman's place of employment and found out that she never showed up for work, and no one knew where she was. Later inquiries revealed that she did not even stop by to pick up her final paycheck. In his quest to find them, the most promising lead Glaze had was the fact that the husband had once been a musician in "The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band." Yet even this fortuitous bit of information got him nowhere. Not one acquaintance or associate had any idea where they could have gone.
About the same time as he was conducting his search, Glaze went to get his interview notes and tapes and found that they had inexplicably disappeared. Then one day, he heard a commotion outside his apartment. He looked out the window and saw an estimated twenty Dallas policemen pulled up in front. They lingered for nearly an hour, shouting in a highly threatening manner and pointing their pistols at his window. Frightened for his life, he immediately left the city.
On December 12, 1977, while working as a reporter for the Avalanche Journal in Lubbock, Texas, he sent a letter to the HSCA. He wrote that he had some information regarding the assassination of President Kennedy and gave a brief sketch of his investigation of the Book Depository. In the closing paragraphs of his letter, he wrote, "I must admit that my own fear of getting involved in the investigation has prevented me from writing you earlier. I apologize." [5]
Whether or not the HSCA had taken an interest in this matter is not known. The only reply it sent was a form letter, which read: "Dear Ms. Glaze [The HSCA had mistakenly thought he was a woman], Thank you for your letter. It has been directed to the Deputy Chief Counsel in charge of the investigation for his review. Your interest in the work of our Committee is appreciated. Sincerely, G. Robert Blakey, Chief Counsel and Director." [6]
Eleven years later, Glaze wrote a letter to Doug Kellner and Frank Morrow of The Alternative Information Network. [7] He also sent them a copy of the reply that he got from Blakey. Somehow a copy of both these letters ended up in the hands of Larry Ray Harris. In his own letter to me, Harris wrote: "I don't recall its origins with clarity, but I think it was given to me by a professor at Southern Methodist University here in Dallas. Regardless, it ended up in my files around the time we opened the JFK Center in 1989. I don't know that anyone has ever looked into it. It could be a hoax, but sounds sincere. It would be easy to verify (1) if a reporter named Glaze has ever worked for the Lubbock newspaper; (2) if a journalist named Glaze was living in Dallas in 1974/1975; and (3) if there is/was an 'Alternative Information Network' in Austin, or if Kellner and Morrow are real persons and remember receiving the letter. If it is true that Shelley was affiliated in some way with CIA or U.S. Intelligence, that would be a disturbing and potentially significant development." [8]
When I first began my inquiry, I was hampered by a minor problem. The signature at the bottom of the letter was blacked out. Fortunately the salutation "Dear Ms. Glaze" on the HSCA letter was not. I thus had a clue that the first name must be some gender neutral type such as Robin or Terry. In January 1993, I called up the Avalanche Journal and asked for Mr. Glaze. No one by that name was currently employed. Neither were there any records of a Glaze in the files of the personnel department. Yet the absence of records did not necessarily mean he never worked there; it was a regular practice to discard the records of former employees after three years. Was there anyone who had been around long enough to remember a journalist named Glaze? The personnel director said that she had been with the paper for about as long as anyone, since 1982, and she never knew anyone by that name.
I next tried to reach either Kellner or Morrow at the Alternative Information Network. Kellner was the one who took my call. I told him who I was and that I had a letter addressed to him and his partner regarding the Kennedy assassination. After I read the contents, Kellner said he never got it. It was odd, he said, that I should have a letter in which he was named as a recipient but he had never seen it. He asked that a copy be sent to his home - not to the business - and after he read it, he would check into it. Two weeks later I made a follow-up phone call and asked Kellner if he found out anything. He said that he showed the letter to Morrow, who said that he vaguely remembered it but could not give any additional information regarding the contents or the author who wrote it.
That was as far as I got in 1993. In February 1999, a researcher named Steve Gaal checked the National Archives web site and found that someone named Glaze had written to the HSCA. That was when I finally had the full name of the reporter: Elzie Dean Glaze. A search of the Internet revealed that a man with this same name has a current e-mail address in Austin, Texas. I sent two messages to that address, but so far I received no response.
The next lead that had to be tracked down was the identity of the man who had been a member of the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band. The band started out in 1966 as a jug band in Long Beach, California. They became known for their unique blend of country western and rock and roll. Among the original musicians were John McEuen, Jeff Hanna, Bruce Kunkel, Ralph Barr, Leslie Thompson, and Jimmie Fadden. After appearing in a movie calledPaint Your Wagon, the band went through some hard times. In 1968 a meeting was held in the manager's Hollywood office, and the group decided to dissolve. Les Thompson ended the meeting with a question: "Does that mean we don't hafta practice anymore?" He then went to Texas to enroll in a bulldozer school. A year or two later, the members of the band, with the exception of Kunkel and Barr, decided to try again. A new member from Philadelphia named Jimmie Ibbotson was added on. This time they achieved commercial success, and in 1970 a song called "Mr. Bojangles" became a top ten hit. Sometime prior to 1974, Les Thompson left the band again. In 1977 the group acquired the distinction of being the first American band to tour the Soviet Union. They are still going strong today, having released a new album called Bang! Bang! Bang! in May 1999. [9]
In an attempt to get more information, I sent them a letter, along with copies of the Glaze correspondence. In a follow-up phone call, I spoke with the manager, and he told me that he talked with the two musicians who had been with the band from the beginning. They said that it has been a such long time since they heard from the early members, that they were unable to provide any information as to where they went or what they had been doing. [10]
With nothing else to go, I would say that the musician spoken of by Glaze was probably Leslie Thompson. He was the only one who went to Texas, and he might have stayed there long enough to establish long-term ties with some of the people in that state.
Having gone as far as I could in checking the authenticity of the Glaze letters, the next thing that needs to be done is to cross-check the information contained in them with what we know about William Shelley.
At the time the assassination occurred, Shelley was, according to his testimony, standing on the steps of the Book Depository with Billy Lovelady and Wesley Frazier. [11] The James Altgens photograph of the limousine under fire confirms the presence of Lovelady on the steps but not Shelley or Frazier. About a minute after the assassination, two female employees in the Book Depository came down the stairs and saw Shelley and Lovelady in the back of the building just about in front of the two freight elevators. One lady said, "I believe the President has been shot." Curiously, neither Shelley nor Lovelady said anything in reply. [12] After the two women ran out the back door, Roy Truly and Police Officer Marion Baker rushed in through the front door. They were going up to the roof to search for a gunman. According to Baker's testimony, he saw two white men sitting by the stairs. [13] According to Shelley, he and Lovelady were appointed by Truly to guard the stairs and elevators. [14]
In any reconstruction of what was happening with the stairs and elevators, it is obvious that Shelley and Lovelady must have seen the escape of one of the assassins. About a minute or two after Truly and Baker went up the stairs, a witness on the street saw a man in a dark sportcoat running out the back door. This man was no doubt the same one seen at a fifth floor window standing next to a man armed with a rifle. After the shooting ended, the man in the dark sportcoat took an elevator down to the ground floor, while at the same time Truly and Baker were going up the stairs. As the culprit headed for the back door, he would have had to pass Shelley and Lovelady in order to exit the building. [15]
About a minute or two after the man in the dark sportcoat dashed out the back door, NBC news reporter Robert MacNeil came in through the front door. In a written account of what he saw, he said that he was surprised to see three men, totally oblivious to the chaos outside, standing by a pay phone.
I went immediately into the clear space on the ground floor and asked where there was a phone. There were, as I recall, three men there, all I think in shirt sleeves. What, on recollection, strikes me as possibly significant is that all three seemed to be exceedingly calm and relaxed, compared to the pandemonium which existed right outside their front door. I did not pay attention to this at the time. I asked the first man I saw – a man who was telephoning from a pillar in the middle of the room – where I could call from. He directed me to another man nearer the door, who pointed to an office. When I got to the phone, two of the lines were lit up. I made my call and left. . . . I was in too much of a hurry to remember what the three men looked like. But their manner was very relaxed. [16]
MacNeil's amazement at the strange placidity of the three men is indicated by the way he repeated this observation for emphasis. The man using the pay phone was quite probably Shelley, for in an affidavit made out that same afternoon, Shelley said, "I went back into the building and went inside and called my wife and told her what happened." [17]
About a minute or two after MacNeil saw the three calm men - between 12:35 and 12:40 - Oswald had a five-to-ten minute chat with the assistant manager. According to an FBI report of the first interrogation of Oswald in the Dallas homocide office:
OSWALD stated that [at the time of the assassination] he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employees lunch room. He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman BILL SHELLEY, and thereafter went home. He stated that he left work because, in his opinion, based upon remarks of BILL SHELLEY, he did not believe that there was going to be any more work that day due to the confusion in the building. [18]
The timing and location of Oswald's departure from the Book Depository correlates exactly with the appearance of a Nash Rambler on Elm Street driven by a dark-skinned man. Between 12:40 and 12:45, Deputy Roger Craig heard a loud whistle and looked up to see Oswald running down the grassy slope in front of the Book Depository. Oswald opened the passenger side door of the Nash Rambler and got in. The car was last seen speeding towards Oak Cliff, where the shooting of Officer Tippit was to occur twenty to thirty minutes later. If Oswald had been talking to Shelley prior to his departure, then there can be no doubt that Shelley had seen him getting away.
Not long after Oswald left the scene, Shelley told Truly that Oswald was missing. (How he came to this conclusion was never publicly disclosed.) A roll call of warehouse employees was made, and it was determined that Oswald was indeed absent. Truly notified Police Captain Will Fritz, who immediately thought that it was "important to hold that man." [19]
The above noted actions seem to indicate that Shelley was very close to the conspiracy, if not actually participating in it. Assuming that the police really had arrested him and charged him with the assassination, they certainly would have had ample cause. For one thing, they would have known that Shelley was in charge of a work crew that spent the entire morning on the same floor where the sniper's nest, rifle, and empty cartridges were found. Secondly, the accused assassin had named Shelley as the one who told him he could leave. Thirdly, the police knew about the Nash Rambler story as early as 5:00 in the afternoon, when Roger Craig reported it to them. Finally, Shelley might not have been entirely candid in how he came to realize that Oswald was missing. No doubt Shelley was asked a lot of questions, and it is possible that he was kept in custody until he gave some satisfactory answers. Admittedly, there is no record of Shelley being arrested, but that does not necessarily mean Glaze was wrong. Missing evidence could just as easily be due to the systematic destruction of anything contrary to the official version.
The presence of an agent, or an ex-agent, of the CIA at the Book Depository would explain a great deal regarding how the conspirators managed to get their gunmen on the premises. Let us now look into Shelley's background to see what additional corroboration can be shed on this matter.
According to statements made to the police and to the Warren Commission, Shelley was born in Gunter, Texas in 1925. During World War Two, he worked "a little bit" in defense plants. On October 29, 1945 at the age of nineteen or twenty he began working for the Book Depository. Eighteen years later, in 1963, he was holding the position of assistant manager of the "miscellaneous department." [20] By 1975, when Glaze talked to him, he had passed his thirtieth anniversary in the company. Such a long career in one place is confirmed in the listings of the city directories. In 1947 he was listed as a clerk at the Hugh Perry Book Depository (the old name for the Texas School Book Depository), and he had a room at 515 Martinique Avenue. In 1960 he was a department manager; his wife's name was Marie; and they lived in a house on 126 Tatum Avenue. They were still living in that house at the time of the assassination.
Although the facts are few, the picture is clear. Shelley was a simple desk clerk and warehouse man, content to live out his working life under the roof of one company. He certainly did not fit the image of a globetrotting CIA operative, embarking on secret missions with the latest in high tech weaponry. Even if we can assume that he really had been an intelligence officer during World War Two, it does not seem possible that he could have joined the CIA afterwards. The agency did not even come into existence until two years after Shelley got his job at the Book Depository.
It would thus appear that we have an irreconcilable situation; Shelley could not have been in the CIA before his employment at the Book Depository. Yet I believe that a seemingly irresolvable problem might on closer examination yield a solution that brings a deeper understanding of the truth. Let us take a different approach. Let us suppose that the job at the Book Depository was concurrent with a career in the CIA. If we can assume that is true, then the Book Depository itself must have been a front for CIA activities.
While it is commonly acknowledged that the agency has too much influence in national affairs, it is still amazing to find its hand in such a wide diversity of organizations and institutions. These include such entities as labor unions, airlines, college student associations, foundations, law firms, banks, savings and loans, investment firms, travel agencies, police departments, post offices, publishing companies, newspapers, call girl services, and mental health institutions. Considering the far-reaching extent of control over so many different areas in American society, it does not seem reasonable to suppose that the CIA would have the moral restraint to make an exception of the Book Depository - provided, of course, that the control of it would further its goals in some way.
If CIA operators had been working inside the building in which the Book Depository was located, they would have not been on unfriendly ground. The property itself was owned by a wealthy, right-wing Texas oilman named D. H. Byrd. He was also a colonel in the Civil Air Patrol, which included among its members Lee Harvey Oswald and David Ferrie. That Ferrie and Oswald knew each other was proven in a 1993 Frontline special on Oswald, in which former cadets Tony Atzenhoffer and Johnny Ciravola displayed a picture showing Ferrie and Oswald at a cadet campout near New Orleans. What is not so well known is that the two men also knew Colonel Byrd. Atzenhoffer told this author that Byrd was the "head honcho" of the Civil Air Patrol in Louisiana and Texas, and that he came to Moissant Airport to give speeches on special occasions, such as orientation sessions for new cadets. [21] Since there is no question that CAP members Ferrie and Oswald were associated with the CIA, it would only be logical to assume that their commander was too.
Another member of the Louisiana Civil Air Patrol who was an associate of the CIA was Barry Seal, a notorious drug smuggler who set up the Mena Airport operation in Arkansas in the early 1980's and later got involved in the Iran-Contra scandal. He was murdered in 1986 by three Colombian hitmen. Seal first got his pilot's license in Baton Rouge on July 16, 1954, when he was sixteen years old. According to a high school friend, Seal was well acquainted with David Ferrie.
One Friday evening while we were in high school, I got a call from Barry, asking if I'd like to fly over to Lacombe with him in the morning, a little town on the north shore across Lake Ponchartrain from New Orleans. We left about 5:30 and flew over to the little airport there and Barry and I get out of the plane, and here's this really weird-looking guy, dressed all in black, sitting in a director's chair on the tarmac, and he's drilling a bunch of Civil Air Patrol guys that are standing in formation in front of him. They were carrying old M-1s. His name was David Ferrie. He was a captain in the Louisiana Civil Air Patrol. . . . See, Barry was making $400 a week in high school flying for David Ferrie. . . .
On the flight back, Barry shouted over the engine. "That weird looking guy? He's got no hair on his body! It's why he's wearing a wig! Get up close, he's even got fake eyebrows, and fake eyelashes, but . . . that weirdo's a big-time pilot and works with the CIA.
Seal and his friend also talked about the wooden crates that Ferrie and Seal were examining. They contained guns and ammo, Seal explained to his friend, and he would be transporting this cargo on the weekend. Ferrie was paying him $400 a week to fly this stuff. $400 was a great deal of money in the mid-1950's. [22]
If the CIA was using Byrd's chapter of the Civil Air Patrol to transport illegal shipments of guns and ammo, then what could have prevented them from using Byrd's property on the corner of Elm and Houston for the same purpose? Since Dallas was a source of munitions going to New Orleans in the drive to overthrow leftist governments in Central and South America, then a way had to be found to move them secretly. Big, heavy boxes marked "Schoolbooks" would have been a handy way of delivering the goods. Perhaps that was what the "miscellaneous department" of the Book Depository was all about.
Working backwards from the fact that an assassination squad could move freely through a building without any fear of interference, there must have been some link between the building and the clandestine organizations that put together the assassination plot. Such a link would enable the conspirators to set up the ambush safely and securely. It is therefore conceivable that the secret history of the Book Depository could extend far into the past - perhaps even as early as 1945, the last year of World War Two.
1. Warren Report, pp. 140-141, 249.
2. Letter from J. Edgar Hoover to J. Lee Rankin, dated June 16, 1964 (HSCA Doc. 62-109090- 26th unrecorded after 2nd 170). By September 1964 the FBI got fingerprints from sixteen employees. These included Roy Truly himself, his assistant manager William Shelley, and all fourteen warehouse employees. None of the prints obtained matched the unidentified palmprint.
3. Jean Hill, JFK, The Last Dissenting Witness (Pelican Publishing Co., 1992), p. 85.
4. 1H79-80 (Marina Oswald).
5. Letter to the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA Doc. 004079). Glaze misdated the letter "12/12/74," for the postmark on the envelope had the year 1977. The true date should have been 12/12/77.
6. Blakey's reply to Elzie Glaze dated January 19, 1978 (HSCA Doc. 004741).
7. Letter by Elzie Dean Glaze to Doug Kellner and Frank Morrow of The Alternative Information Network, dated June 2, 1989.
8. Harris letter to the author, dated December 15, 1992.
9. Chet Flippo, "Nitty Gritty Pick & Grin" in the October 14, 1971 issue of Rolling Stone. Also The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band web page from the Internet.
10. Telephone conversation with John Peets, manager of the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, May 12, 1999.
11. 6H328-329 (Shelley).
12. 6H390 (Victoria Adams).
13. 3H263 (Baker).
14. 24H226 (Shelley affidavit) and 6H330 (Shelley). Shelley and Lovelady had been inconsistent regarding their actions during the first minutes after the shooting. An entirely different story has them running out to the street island in front of the building to see what was going on. In an attempt to resolve these discrepanicies, I contacted William Shelley on March 20, 1995 and asked him if he would be willing to answer a few questions. His response was an abrupt no. He then added, "Everything that I have to say on that subject is in the public record. You'll have to go with that."
15. "The Fifth Floor Sniper" in the May 1993 issue of The Third Decade.
16. "Robert MacNeil and the Three Calm Men" in the November 1994 issue of The Fourth Decade.
17. 24H226 (Shelley affidavit).
18. The Warren Report, p. 619.
19. See "The Transplantation of the Texas School Book Depository" in the September 1993 issue of The Third Decade and "411 Elm Street" in the May 1994 issue of The Fourth Decade. Also see Jerry Rose's article "Important to Hold That Man" in the May 1986 issue of The Third Decade.
20. 6H327-328 (Shelley).
21. Telephone conversations with Tony Atzenhoffer, July 11 and August 15, 1998.
22. "Barry & the 'Boys'" by Daniel Hopsicker, Internet file, copyright 1998.
---------------------------------
I worked and flew with Adler Berriman Seal for many years. Also, I spent far too many hours on the telephone with Hopsicker (while he was shacked up with "Berry's widow) and he quotes me in his phony book.
Seal always signed off as "Berry", NOT Barry. There was NEVER an airport at LaCombe, LA, not even a private "grass strip" such as those used by crop-dusters. The nearest airport is at Slidell, some 13 miles distant towards the northeast. The next one is to the northwest at Mandeville, and almost 20 miles distant.
There was never a training camp at LaCombe, LA -- nor at Hammond, LA, -- nor at N.A.F. (LTA) Houma, LA , because the McLaney operation (involving Rich Lauchli, "Papucho" Espinoza, Herman Koch Gene, et al.) was a "Honey-Trap Op" to give the Cuban DGI Agents "handling" Ricardo Davis, Nico Crespi, and Oswald further bona fides that they were pro-Castro, and snitching out "Gusano" training/raider camps and operations.
NONE existed since we were there during early 1962, and so they had to be created out of thin air. When Paulino Sierra came down from Chicago with "Big Buck$", Sanchez Arango's AAA put on a phony show at the now defunct No Name Key site. Batista Falla (M.D.C.) wanted to sucker out some Sierra money, so he sent some clowns to Hammond, in tan/khaki uniforms but no guns. Laureano planned to sucker Sierra by making a deal with Guatemalen Roberto Alejos, who told him that any Cubans coming into Guatemala would have to chop wood, after they got work permits.
When the dumbass "Gusanos" discovered this farce, they immediately returned to Miami, went back to Flagler Surplus (W. Flagler & 17th Ave.) and traded in the khakis for 25 cents on the dollar !! Not to be outdone, Laureano had his guys grab Fernando Fernandez as a "Castro Spy". Because Fernandez was a real "Dangle', this blew a genuine penetration Op.
So, as we told Oliver Stone: We will build you a "Training Camp" (at Jean laFitte, LA); but the whole Garrison spiel on a Ponchartrain Camp is complete bullxxxx. It was Mike mcLaney doing a favor for RFK. Lauchli bitched about it later, after he had served his 2nd prison term -- and wanted to know why this whole sham went down? Especially since he had NEVER built the bomb fuses at his shop in Collinsville, Illinois.
Sorry folks, NO camps, no LHO & Ferrie, Russo, Novel, et al. -- just a pervert doing his duty for Marcello !!
__________________________
http://www.careersinsite.org/namedesc-1-LA...E-Louisiana.htm
Someone posted to you ++ and you did not reply ??
Dear Mr. Hemming,
Sorry to see your old friend hitting on hard times. Not to change the subject, [it's really the same subject]. Rumsfeld muses, "What electrode would Jesus use?" Some of us are concerned about how one human treats another. Some of us are also concerned about justice - to know the why, and the "WHO." Pinochet is a monster and an international criminal. Those who helped him rise to power should IMHO, be tried with him. You know what the D.A. says about criminals, "If you can't get them for one crime, you can get them for another." I'm sure you get my drift.
-----------------------------------
r AIRCRAFT
Aircraft Informations
Registrant’s Name : MCDERMOTT DONALD R AIRCRAFT
Address : PO BOX 916
LACOMBE
Registrant’s State : LOUISIANA
Registrant’s Zip Code : 70445-0916
Registrant’s Region : SOUTHWESTERN
Type Registrant : INDIVIDUAL
County Mail : US
Last Action Date : 20030715
Certificate Issue Date : 20000721
Certification : STANDARD,NORMAL
Type Aircraft : FIXED WING SINGLE ENGINE
Type Engine : RECIPROCATING
Status Code : THE TRIENNIAL AIRCRAFT REGISTRATION FORM WAS MAILED AND HAS NOT BEEN RETURNED BY THE POST OFFICE
Aircraft Transponder Code : 50024357
Airworthiness Date : 19750609
N-Number : 1093L
----------------------------------------------
Why don't you give Mr. McDermott a call and see if indeed his "registered" aircraft is at the Slidell, LA airport
as there is NO airport at LaCombe.
As is the routine (SOP), he has "registered" his aircraft "N1093L" using his lawful domicile, OR where he has a business, OR where he receives mail -- such as his PO Box !!
As a "Koinky-Dink", there are two owners of aircraft who curently reside at No Name Key, FL -- but there aircraft are parked at the Marathon "T-Hangers" some 18 miles distant. NO, there has never been an airstrip at No Name Key either -- but there are at least two "AIRCRAFT OWNERS who reside there [one on bard a houseboat).
Check out the LaCombe Airport located in Alberta, Canada -- mayhaps that was the one Garrison had his sights set upon.
As for not responding to an e-mail which I NEVER received -- you have my permission to obtain my e-mail address from John Simkin. Also, I have had a lot of problems with this Forum message (e-mail) set-up; and i have had to sweep my PC for over an hour after just attempting to track said missives. My PC guru brother states that this is due to the Forum ISP protcting its bandwidth, which is why I sign on only for short periods. I have regularly picked up an average of.......just got jammed again !! My freebie download "BeClean" regurlarly discovers 20+ registry entries, and about 40+ unnecessary files -- which I delete every time I sign off of the Forum. Try it out. Google both "BeClean" & "MyCleaner" for good security practices -- you will be amazed at how your hard-drive is loaded up with extraneous trash.
GPH
___________________________
-
Tosh: I hope you reconsider. Otherwise his [Hemming's] bs just stands, unchallenged.
What constructive purpose is served by challenging Gerry Hemming on anything? I certainly sympathize with Tosh's frustration that Hemming has such a platform for disseminating false history here and that his privileged treatment enables such free-wheeling distortion, but whenever a probative question is asked, Hemming quickly resorts to personal abuse and obfuscation. To his credit, Hemming has at times admitted that he is not telling forum members what he supposedly knows about Dallas. My take on Hemming's remarks is that anyone who thinks he can be charmed, cajoled or tricked into a statement of substance about Dallas is wrong. Therefore, his pronouncements about what transpired are of the misleading, debunking and ridiculing sort. The overall result of such contribution is worse than no contribution at all.
T.C.
---------------------------------
"CONTRIBUTION" -- and what did I just give Y'all. I was the one who had his career, family, and associates
exposed to contempible lies by "Jimbo/Gumbo" Garrison. Whatsa matter, did I spoil your "din-din ??"
Which of you bookreaders was with Garrison during 1967 ?? I wish some of the "gullible-groupies" would get off of the "Costner-is-really-Garrison" wagon, and go tell Weberman your tearful tales. He is the one who accuses me of setting up LHO, "Hapless" Hall (Trafficante's boy, even after he was warned that Santo was a DGI asset), Larry Howard, Bill Seymour, Elvis, Mrs. Surratt, Bremer, Hinckley, et al.; and ad nauseum.
I don't give a rat's rectal orifice what some wet-dreamers argue about. THERE WERE NO CAMPS in NO during 1963. Garrison admitted it to me, when I threatened to go to the LA Bar with a criminal complaint against his ass !! His response (one of dozens) was that: He could prove that specific persons were plotting (conspiring) to kill some VIP, and whether it was Fidel, Che, Raul, JFK, RFK, it didn't matter -- and they were in violation of LA law.
When I explained the rights of belligerents to him (or holders of "Commissions to Cruise - Letters of Marque) those rights under international law -- to kill any other enemy belligerent (or "unlawful combatant") ANYWHERE THEY MIGHT BE FOUND, he almost choked on his "Lobster Thermidor"!! Fidel, et al. were LAWFUL TARGETS, as long as the attackers were themselves "Lawful Belligerents" -- as was JFK ("Commander-in-Chief"); RFK (and other Cabinet members) !!
You want to ask a half-way intelligible question, and it doesn't compromise your ego -- SHOOT. The whole world has had "Moi" holding the bag on the JFK matter since 1964. However, in some cases it did serve as a shield from the "Nasties".
I just can't get over a clown who weeps crocodile tears about Berry's reputation (and that of his widow); but out of the other side of his "pie-hole"; he goes along with Hopsicker fingering "Barry and the Boys" as capital murderers Now, one would think that HIS defending against those scurrilous allegations might also benefit the widow??!!
Widow Seal handed the telephone to Hopsicker [the first time he stated that he was "shacking" with her], and she agreed that this was the case. Maybe it was someone else useing the same "Caller I.D." that had lit up on my telephone.
You think that I didn't check the matter out, and NOT just because Hopsicker approached me out of the blue ??!! And moreover, I would be the last person to fault a widow who is on the road to recovery from a horrible event !!
But no, "Mr. Outboard Motor Corporation" secret agent man knows that the wet-dreaming anti-American element -- just wants to her more condemnation of his own country. Ask Dick Clark Production folks (check website for e-mail) about this clown's attempts at repeatedly conning money from the "gullibles" and the wet-dreamers !!
Not to worry, the Khazar has a court document coming his way also, and most agree that this is long overdue. Even one of Davidson Jr.'s shysters wants to get in on the act. Not going to happen though.
As I repeatedly suggested, fill out a sworn & notarized statement (Affidavit) as to your "personal knowledge" of these matters. I might also suggest that it not center upon scribbling, the movies, or smoke dreams. I will then forthwith forward it to the Chief Judge of the D.C. District Court, and then let matters take their course !!
Once again, NO camps, NO Ferrie, NO Oswald, NO Bannister, NO Diddly Squat !! You've been had by amateurs, not "Pros". Are you a shooter, sniper, pilot, swimmer, demo man (UDT/EOD), recon man, parachutist, and have you ever even served ?? -- or are you just an "armchair expert" on everything ??
Chairs,
GPH
__________________________
-
Nathan I would be very careful about accepting anything in "A Farewell to Justice" as historical truth.
You state that Mellen "argues that this Special Group to kill Castro was "turned" by the CIA to kill Kennedy. Because the New Orleans ground level of the Special Group had such direct contact with Bobby Kennedy, the AG was turned into his brother's killers' keeper."
What is her proof of this?
It is nil.
------------------------------
I worked and flew with Adler Berriman Seal for many years. Also, I spent far too many hours on the telephone with Hopsicker (while he was shacked up with "Berry's widow) and he quotes me in his phony book.
Seal always signed off as "Berry", NOT Barry. There was NEVER an airport at LaCombe, LA, not even a private "grass strip" such as those used by crop-dusters. The nearest airport is at Slidell, some 13 miles distant towards the northeast. The next one is to the northwest at Mandeville, and almost 20 miles distant.
There was never a training camp at LaCombe, LA -- nor at Hammond, LA, -- nor at N.A.F. (LTA) Houma, LA , because the McLaney operation (involving Rich Lauchli, "Papucho" Espinoza, Herman Koch Gene, et al.) was a "Honey-Trap Op" to give the Cuban DGI Agents "handling" Ricardo Davis, Nico Crespi, and Oswald further bona fides that they were pro-Castro, and snitching out "Gusano" training/raider camps and operations.
NONE existed since we were there during early 1962, and so they had to be created out of thin air. When Paulino Sierra came down from Chicago with "Big Buck$", Sanchez Arango's AAA put on a phony show at the now defunct No Name Key site. Batista Falla (M.D.C.) wanted to sucker out some Sierra money, so he sent some clowns to Hammond, in tan/khaki uniforms but no guns. Laureano planned to sucker Sierra by making a deal with Guatemalen Roberto Alejos, who told him that any Cubans coming into Guatemala would have to chop wood, after they got work permits.
When the dumbass "Gusanos" discovered this farce, they immediately returned to Miami, went back to Flagler Surplus (W. Flagler & 17th Ave.) and traded in the khakis for 25 cents on the dollar !! Not to be outdone, Laureano had his guys grab Fernando Fernandez as a "Castro Spy". Because Fernandez was a real "Dangle', this blew a genuine penetration Op.
So, as we told Oliver Stone: We will build you a "Training Camp" (at Jean laFitte, LA); but the whole Garrison spiel on a Ponchartrain Camp is complete bullxxxx. It was Mike mcLaney doing a favor for RFK. Lauchli bitched about it later, after he had served his 2nd prison term -- and wanted to know why this whole sham went down? Especially since he had NEVER built the bomb fuses at his shop in Collinsville, Illinois.
Sorry folks, NO camps, no LHO & Ferrie, Russo, Novel, et al. -- just a pervert doing his duty for Marcello !!
__________________________
-
The following was an article that was published in the May 1999 Issue of the Fourth Decade.
The Glaze Letters
William Weston
May 1999
Among the boxes forming the sniper's nest were four that had twenty-eight identifiable prints. Traceable to Oswald were two palmprints and one fingerprint. Twenty-four prints were made by two law enforcement officials, but one palmprint could not be identified. The unmatched print might mean an accomplice. Or maybe someone was innocently moving boxes from one place to another. [1] To settle the matter, the FBI needed a set of prints from everyone employed at the Texas School Book Depository - a total of sixty-nine people. It was a simple procedure, quick and easy, and no one should have had any complaints about disruptions or delays. Notwithstanding, the agency ran smack into an unexpected wall of resistance. In a letter to the Warren Commission, J. Edgar Hoover tried to explain why the Bureau failed to do its job.
Mr. Roy S. Truly, Warehouse Superintendent, who has been very cooperative with this Bureau in the past, strongly objected to the printing of all employees as he felt it would seriously handicap the work of his firm. Mr. Truly stated there are about twenty employees who would have had occasion to handle the cartons in question and he desired the printing to be limited to this group. [2]
As a result of these objections, the FBI was forced to modify its demand according to the limitation imposed. How could this happen? How could a mere warehouse manager dictate to a law enforcement agency as powerful as the FBI what it could, or could not do, in the investigation of a crime as serious as the assassination of the President? Were Hoover's agents always so timid with people who refused to cooperate? No, for in Jean Hill's book, The Last Dissenting Witness, a Dallas motorcycle officer, J. B. Marshall, was quoted as saying, "The Feds are tearing our whole department to pieces . . . they tell 'em, 'If you don't cooperate, we'll take your badge.' . . . they've been especially rough on all the guys who were on motorcade duty that day." [3] Still another victim was Marina Oswald, who was told that if she did not cooperate, she would be forced to leave the country. [4] These examples demonstrate a stern resolve to squash even the mildest of troublemakers. Why then should the FBI meekly tolerate a slap in the face from someone at the Book Depository? Did the warehouse manager have some clout that even Hoover had to respect? If so, it is difficult to understand where this clout came from. The innocence of anyone working in that particular building was far from certain in the eyes of suspicious investigators.
Whatever might be said in the ongoing debate concerning the number of bullets whizzing through Dealey Plaza, it is a fact that the Book Depository was a source location. On the premises was at least one hit team, including a leader, a sniper, a radioman, and two or three watchers to secure the escape route. It was also the staging area of the patsy, who had to be controlled and moved around in such a way that he would be in a credible position to take the blame. To keep the risks of exposure to a minimum, the conspirators had to have complete control over the building. How they managed to accomplish this is a question that remains to be answered.
Six years ago I received from Larry Ray Harris a copy of a letter that sheds some light on this issue. Written by a Mr. Glaze to the Alternative Information Network in Austin, Texas on June 2, 1989, this letter mentioned an earlier letter that was sent to the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA). Recently I was able to get a copy of the earlier letter from the National Archives. Through a comparison of the details in both letters, I have been able to produce the following narrative.
In late 1974, while working as a journalist in Dallas, Glaze met a woman who began working for the Book Depository in 1969 - six years after the assassination. (She was no longer working there at the time she spoke to Glaze.) Her supervisor was William Shelley. The company, she said, had a strange way of introducing new employees to their duties. She and another new employee were approached by two men, who produced I.D. wallets and identified themselves as "government agents." They were taken to an empty room and given questionnaires to fill out. These exams were full of oddly irrelevant questions, calling for opinions on various topics of the day, especially social issues. Obediently the two employees wrote out their answers. When they were done, they gave the sheets back, and in the short pause that followed, one of the examiners bluntly asked: "Have you been recruited by the FBI or the CIA?" The two employees were stunned. As ordinary office workers, they were only doing minor clerical tasks at low wages. Why would anyone think that they came from the FBI or the CIA? While it was true that the Book Depository had acquired the notoriety of being the place where Oswald shot the President, still by 1969 that should have been ancient history. Yet even more disturbing were the next questions that came to mind. If the Book Depository was just an insignificant, little company, why would it be attracting the attention of the two biggest intelligence establishments in the country? Furthermore, what was the intrigue that was spurring these "government agents" to hunt down unwanted infiltrators?
Glaze asked the woman if she and her co-worker were the only ones subjected to this kind of treatment. No, they were not the only ones. Background checks on new employees were done as a routine procedure at the Book Depository. After listening to the woman's account, Glaze decided to check it out. He contacted her former supervisor, William Shelley, and asked to meet with him. Shelley agreed to this request and even allowed the reporter to take notes and use a tape recorder. The meeting took place at the Book Depository warehouse near the intersection of Royal Lane and Interstate 35 on the far northwest side of Dallas. (The company had moved from its old location on 411 Elm Street in 1970.) The information that Glaze was gathering must have been extensive, for the two men had numerous meetings together. Yet only a few disclosures are provided in the letters. The most significant one appears in the 1989 letter: "Mr. Shelley claims to have been an intelligence officer during World War II and thereafter joined the CIA." This extraordinary revelation goes far in explaining the mysteries of the Book Depository, and a discussion of its implications will be given later in this article.
Shelley told Glaze that he had been the supervisor of Lee Harvey Oswald. After the assassination, the Dallas police placed Shelley under arrest and formally charged him with the murder of the President. (No mention was made by Glaze as to why Shelley had been arrested, nor did he say what connection this arrest had with the arrest of Oswald.) The charges against Shelley were soon dropped, and he was released. Since that day, at various times, journalists representing several newspapers and magazines approached him with offers of huge sums of money for his personal account of the assassination. These offers were all turned down. When Glaze tried to get permission to quote him in his own article, Shelley refused and insisted that even his name was not to be printed.
In spite of this setback, Glaze was not discouraged. He went back to the woman and told her that he was doing a story on the Book Depository. He was going to talk to the FBI and possibly get some more information. When the woman heard this, she was absolutely appalled. The very idea that he was writing an article filled her with terror. She told him that if he persisted in his efforts to publicize this story, she would emphatically deny everything she told him. The prospects for an article irretrievably came to an end, and Glaze had no choice but to go home empty-handed.
It was not long after his departure that he felt obliged to speak to the woman again. What he intended to say is not mentioned in his letters, but perhaps he wanted to make an apology. In any case, it was only a few hours after he last saw her that he decided to see her again.
When he arrived at her apartment, he was surprised to find it totally empty. It looked as if no one had ever lived there. Glaze knew that she had a husband and a child, and they too were gone. The mystified reporter could not understand how three people could have moved away so quickly. The next day he went to the woman's place of employment and found out that she never showed up for work, and no one knew where she was. Later inquiries revealed that she did not even stop by to pick up her final paycheck. In his quest to find them, the most promising lead Glaze had was the fact that the husband had once been a musician in "The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band." Yet even this fortuitous bit of information got him nowhere. Not one acquaintance or associate had any idea where they could have gone.
About the same time as he was conducting his search, Glaze went to get his interview notes and tapes and found that they had inexplicably disappeared. Then one day, he heard a commotion outside his apartment. He looked out the window and saw an estimated twenty Dallas policemen pulled up in front. They lingered for nearly an hour, shouting in a highly threatening manner and pointing their pistols at his window. Frightened for his life, he immediately left the city.
On December 12, 1977, while working as a reporter for the Avalanche Journal in Lubbock, Texas, he sent a letter to the HSCA. He wrote that he had some information regarding the assassination of President Kennedy and gave a brief sketch of his investigation of the Book Depository. In the closing paragraphs of his letter, he wrote, "I must admit that my own fear of getting involved in the investigation has prevented me from writing you earlier. I apologize." [5]
Whether or not the HSCA had taken an interest in this matter is not known. The only reply it sent was a form letter, which read: "Dear Ms. Glaze [The HSCA had mistakenly thought he was a woman], Thank you for your letter. It has been directed to the Deputy Chief Counsel in charge of the investigation for his review. Your interest in the work of our Committee is appreciated. Sincerely, G. Robert Blakey, Chief Counsel and Director." [6]
Eleven years later, Glaze wrote a letter to Doug Kellner and Frank Morrow of The Alternative Information Network. [7] He also sent them a copy of the reply that he got from Blakey. Somehow a copy of both these letters ended up in the hands of Larry Ray Harris. In his own letter to me, Harris wrote: "I don't recall its origins with clarity, but I think it was given to me by a professor at Southern Methodist University here in Dallas. Regardless, it ended up in my files around the time we opened the JFK Center in 1989. I don't know that anyone has ever looked into it. It could be a hoax, but sounds sincere. It would be easy to verify (1) if a reporter named Glaze has ever worked for the Lubbock newspaper; (2) if a journalist named Glaze was living in Dallas in 1974/1975; and (3) if there is/was an 'Alternative Information Network' in Austin, or if Kellner and Morrow are real persons and remember receiving the letter. If it is true that Shelley was affiliated in some way with CIA or U.S. Intelligence, that would be a disturbing and potentially significant development." [8]
When I first began my inquiry, I was hampered by a minor problem. The signature at the bottom of the letter was blacked out. Fortunately the salutation "Dear Ms. Glaze" on the HSCA letter was not. I thus had a clue that the first name must be some gender neutral type such as Robin or Terry. In January 1993, I called up the Avalanche Journal and asked for Mr. Glaze. No one by that name was currently employed. Neither were there any records of a Glaze in the files of the personnel department. Yet the absence of records did not necessarily mean he never worked there; it was a regular practice to discard the records of former employees after three years. Was there anyone who had been around long enough to remember a journalist named Glaze? The personnel director said that she had been with the paper for about as long as anyone, since 1982, and she never knew anyone by that name.
I next tried to reach either Kellner or Morrow at the Alternative Information Network. Kellner was the one who took my call. I told him who I was and that I had a letter addressed to him and his partner regarding the Kennedy assassination. After I read the contents, Kellner said he never got it. It was odd, he said, that I should have a letter in which he was named as a recipient but he had never seen it. He asked that a copy be sent to his home - not to the business - and after he read it, he would check into it. Two weeks later I made a follow-up phone call and asked Kellner if he found out anything. He said that he showed the letter to Morrow, who said that he vaguely remembered it but could not give any additional information regarding the contents or the author who wrote it.
That was as far as I got in 1993. In February 1999, a researcher named Steve Gaal checked the National Archives web site and found that someone named Glaze had written to the HSCA. That was when I finally had the full name of the reporter: Elzie Dean Glaze. A search of the Internet revealed that a man with this same name has a current e-mail address in Austin, Texas. I sent two messages to that address, but so far I received no response.
The next lead that had to be tracked down was the identity of the man who had been a member of the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band. The band started out in 1966 as a jug band in Long Beach, California. They became known for their unique blend of country western and rock and roll. Among the original musicians were John McEuen, Jeff Hanna, Bruce Kunkel, Ralph Barr, Leslie Thompson, and Jimmie Fadden. After appearing in a movie calledPaint Your Wagon, the band went through some hard times. In 1968 a meeting was held in the manager's Hollywood office, and the group decided to dissolve. Les Thompson ended the meeting with a question: "Does that mean we don't hafta practice anymore?" He then went to Texas to enroll in a bulldozer school. A year or two later, the members of the band, with the exception of Kunkel and Barr, decided to try again. A new member from Philadelphia named Jimmie Ibbotson was added on. This time they achieved commercial success, and in 1970 a song called "Mr. Bojangles" became a top ten hit. Sometime prior to 1974, Les Thompson left the band again. In 1977 the group acquired the distinction of being the first American band to tour the Soviet Union. They are still going strong today, having released a new album called Bang! Bang! Bang! in May 1999. [9]
In an attempt to get more information, I sent them a letter, along with copies of the Glaze correspondence. In a follow-up phone call, I spoke with the manager, and he told me that he talked with the two musicians who had been with the band from the beginning. They said that it has been a such long time since they heard from the early members, that they were unable to provide any information as to where they went or what they had been doing. [10]
With nothing else to go, I would say that the musician spoken of by Glaze was probably Leslie Thompson. He was the only one who went to Texas, and he might have stayed there long enough to establish long-term ties with some of the people in that state.
Having gone as far as I could in checking the authenticity of the Glaze letters, the next thing that needs to be done is to cross-check the information contained in them with what we know about William Shelley.
At the time the assassination occurred, Shelley was, according to his testimony, standing on the steps of the Book Depository with Billy Lovelady and Wesley Frazier. [11] The James Altgens photograph of the limousine under fire confirms the presence of Lovelady on the steps but not Shelley or Frazier. About a minute after the assassination, two female employees in the Book Depository came down the stairs and saw Shelley and Lovelady in the back of the building just about in front of the two freight elevators. One lady said, "I believe the President has been shot." Curiously, neither Shelley nor Lovelady said anything in reply. [12] After the two women ran out the back door, Roy Truly and Police Officer Marion Baker rushed in through the front door. They were going up to the roof to search for a gunman. According to Baker's testimony, he saw two white men sitting by the stairs. [13] According to Shelley, he and Lovelady were appointed by Truly to guard the stairs and elevators. [14]
In any reconstruction of what was happening with the stairs and elevators, it is obvious that Shelley and Lovelady must have seen the escape of one of the assassins. About a minute or two after Truly and Baker went up the stairs, a witness on the street saw a man in a dark sportcoat running out the back door. This man was no doubt the same one seen at a fifth floor window standing next to a man armed with a rifle. After the shooting ended, the man in the dark sportcoat took an elevator down to the ground floor, while at the same time Truly and Baker were going up the stairs. As the culprit headed for the back door, he would have had to pass Shelley and Lovelady in order to exit the building. [15]
About a minute or two after the man in the dark sportcoat dashed out the back door, NBC news reporter Robert MacNeil came in through the front door. In a written account of what he saw, he said that he was surprised to see three men, totally oblivious to the chaos outside, standing by a pay phone.
I went immediately into the clear space on the ground floor and asked where there was a phone. There were, as I recall, three men there, all I think in shirt sleeves. What, on recollection, strikes me as possibly significant is that all three seemed to be exceedingly calm and relaxed, compared to the pandemonium which existed right outside their front door. I did not pay attention to this at the time. I asked the first man I saw – a man who was telephoning from a pillar in the middle of the room – where I could call from. He directed me to another man nearer the door, who pointed to an office. When I got to the phone, two of the lines were lit up. I made my call and left. . . . I was in too much of a hurry to remember what the three men looked like. But their manner was very relaxed. [16]
MacNeil's amazement at the strange placidity of the three men is indicated by the way he repeated this observation for emphasis. The man using the pay phone was quite probably Shelley, for in an affidavit made out that same afternoon, Shelley said, "I went back into the building and went inside and called my wife and told her what happened." [17]
About a minute or two after MacNeil saw the three calm men - between 12:35 and 12:40 - Oswald had a five-to-ten minute chat with the assistant manager. According to an FBI report of the first interrogation of Oswald in the Dallas homocide office:
OSWALD stated that [at the time of the assassination] he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employees lunch room. He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman BILL SHELLEY, and thereafter went home. He stated that he left work because, in his opinion, based upon remarks of BILL SHELLEY, he did not believe that there was going to be any more work that day due to the confusion in the building. [18]
The timing and location of Oswald's departure from the Book Depository correlates exactly with the appearance of a Nash Rambler on Elm Street driven by a dark-skinned man. Between 12:40 and 12:45, Deputy Roger Craig heard a loud whistle and looked up to see Oswald running down the grassy slope in front of the Book Depository. Oswald opened the passenger side door of the Nash Rambler and got in. The car was last seen speeding towards Oak Cliff, where the shooting of Officer Tippit was to occur twenty to thirty minutes later. If Oswald had been talking to Shelley prior to his departure, then there can be no doubt that Shelley had seen him getting away.
Not long after Oswald left the scene, Shelley told Truly that Oswald was missing. (How he came to this conclusion was never publicly disclosed.) A roll call of warehouse employees was made, and it was determined that Oswald was indeed absent. Truly notified Police Captain Will Fritz, who immediately thought that it was "important to hold that man." [19]
The above noted actions seem to indicate that Shelley was very close to the conspiracy, if not actually participating in it. Assuming that the police really had arrested him and charged him with the assassination, they certainly would have had ample cause. For one thing, they would have known that Shelley was in charge of a work crew that spent the entire morning on the same floor where the sniper's nest, rifle, and empty cartridges were found. Secondly, the accused assassin had named Shelley as the one who told him he could leave. Thirdly, the police knew about the Nash Rambler story as early as 5:00 in the afternoon, when Roger Craig reported it to them. Finally, Shelley might not have been entirely candid in how he came to realize that Oswald was missing. No doubt Shelley was asked a lot of questions, and it is possible that he was kept in custody until he gave some satisfactory answers. Admittedly, there is no record of Shelley being arrested, but that does not necessarily mean Glaze was wrong. Missing evidence could just as easily be due to the systematic destruction of anything contrary to the official version.
The presence of an agent, or an ex-agent, of the CIA at the Book Depository would explain a great deal regarding how the conspirators managed to get their gunmen on the premises. Let us now look into Shelley's background to see what additional corroboration can be shed on this matter.
According to statements made to the police and to the Warren Commission, Shelley was born in Gunter, Texas in 1925. During World War Two, he worked "a little bit" in defense plants. On October 29, 1945 at the age of nineteen or twenty he began working for the Book Depository. Eighteen years later, in 1963, he was holding the position of assistant manager of the "miscellaneous department." [20] By 1975, when Glaze talked to him, he had passed his thirtieth anniversary in the company. Such a long career in one place is confirmed in the listings of the city directories. In 1947 he was listed as a clerk at the Hugh Perry Book Depository (the old name for the Texas School Book Depository), and he had a room at 515 Martinique Avenue. In 1960 he was a department manager; his wife's name was Marie; and they lived in a house on 126 Tatum Avenue. They were still living in that house at the time of the assassination.
Although the facts are few, the picture is clear. Shelley was a simple desk clerk and warehouse man, content to live out his working life under the roof of one company. He certainly did not fit the image of a globetrotting CIA operative, embarking on secret missions with the latest in high tech weaponry. Even if we can assume that he really had been an intelligence officer during World War Two, it does not seem possible that he could have joined the CIA afterwards. The agency did not even come into existence until two years after Shelley got his job at the Book Depository.
It would thus appear that we have an irreconcilable situation; Shelley could not have been in the CIA before his employment at the Book Depository. Yet I believe that a seemingly irresolvable problem might on closer examination yield a solution that brings a deeper understanding of the truth. Let us take a different approach. Let us suppose that the job at the Book Depository was concurrent with a career in the CIA. If we can assume that is true, then the Book Depository itself must have been a front for CIA activities.
While it is commonly acknowledged that the agency has too much influence in national affairs, it is still amazing to find its hand in such a wide diversity of organizations and institutions. These include such entities as labor unions, airlines, college student associations, foundations, law firms, banks, savings and loans, investment firms, travel agencies, police departments, post offices, publishing companies, newspapers, call girl services, and mental health institutions. Considering the far-reaching extent of control over so many different areas in American society, it does not seem reasonable to suppose that the CIA would have the moral restraint to make an exception of the Book Depository - provided, of course, that the control of it would further its goals in some way.
If CIA operators had been working inside the building in which the Book Depository was located, they would have not been on unfriendly ground. The property itself was owned by a wealthy, right-wing Texas oilman named D. H. Byrd. He was also a colonel in the Civil Air Patrol, which included among its members Lee Harvey Oswald and David Ferrie. That Ferrie and Oswald knew each other was proven in a 1993 Frontline special on Oswald, in which former cadets Tony Atzenhoffer and Johnny Ciravola displayed a picture showing Ferrie and Oswald at a cadet campout near New Orleans. What is not so well known is that the two men also knew Colonel Byrd. Atzenhoffer told this author that Byrd was the "head honcho" of the Civil Air Patrol in Louisiana and Texas, and that he came to Moissant Airport to give speeches on special occasions, such as orientation sessions for new cadets. [21] Since there is no question that CAP members Ferrie and Oswald were associated with the CIA, it would only be logical to assume that their commander was too.
Another member of the Louisiana Civil Air Patrol who was an associate of the CIA was Barry Seal, a notorious drug smuggler who set up the Mena Airport operation in Arkansas in the early 1980's and later got involved in the Iran-Contra scandal. He was murdered in 1986 by three Colombian hitmen. Seal first got his pilot's license in Baton Rouge on July 16, 1954, when he was sixteen years old. According to a high school friend, Seal was well acquainted with David Ferrie.
One Friday evening while we were in high school, I got a call from Barry, asking if I'd like to fly over to Lacombe with him in the morning, a little town on the north shore across Lake Ponchartrain from New Orleans. We left about 5:30 and flew over to the little airport there and Barry and I get out of the plane, and here's this really weird-looking guy, dressed all in black, sitting in a director's chair on the tarmac, and he's drilling a bunch of Civil Air Patrol guys that are standing in formation in front of him. They were carrying old M-1s. His name was David Ferrie. He was a captain in the Louisiana Civil Air Patrol. . . . See, Barry was making $400 a week in high school flying for David Ferrie. . . .
On the flight back, Barry shouted over the engine. "That weird looking guy? He's got no hair on his body! It's why he's wearing a wig! Get up close, he's even got fake eyebrows, and fake eyelashes, but . . . that weirdo's a big-time pilot and works with the CIA.
Seal and his friend also talked about the wooden crates that Ferrie and Seal were examining. They contained guns and ammo, Seal explained to his friend, and he would be transporting this cargo on the weekend. Ferrie was paying him $400 a week to fly this stuff. $400 was a great deal of money in the mid-1950's. [22]
If the CIA was using Byrd's chapter of the Civil Air Patrol to transport illegal shipments of guns and ammo, then what could have prevented them from using Byrd's property on the corner of Elm and Houston for the same purpose? Since Dallas was a source of munitions going to New Orleans in the drive to overthrow leftist governments in Central and South America, then a way had to be found to move them secretly. Big, heavy boxes marked "Schoolbooks" would have been a handy way of delivering the goods. Perhaps that was what the "miscellaneous department" of the Book Depository was all about.
Working backwards from the fact that an assassination squad could move freely through a building without any fear of interference, there must have been some link between the building and the clandestine organizations that put together the assassination plot. Such a link would enable the conspirators to set up the ambush safely and securely. It is therefore conceivable that the secret history of the Book Depository could extend far into the past - perhaps even as early as 1945, the last year of World War Two.
1. Warren Report, pp. 140-141, 249.
2. Letter from J. Edgar Hoover to J. Lee Rankin, dated June 16, 1964 (HSCA Doc. 62-109090- 26th unrecorded after 2nd 170). By September 1964 the FBI got fingerprints from sixteen employees. These included Roy Truly himself, his assistant manager William Shelley, and all fourteen warehouse employees. None of the prints obtained matched the unidentified palmprint.
3. Jean Hill, JFK, The Last Dissenting Witness (Pelican Publishing Co., 1992), p. 85.
4. 1H79-80 (Marina Oswald).
5. Letter to the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA Doc. 004079). Glaze misdated the letter "12/12/74," for the postmark on the envelope had the year 1977. The true date should have been 12/12/77.
6. Blakey's reply to Elzie Glaze dated January 19, 1978 (HSCA Doc. 004741).
7. Letter by Elzie Dean Glaze to Doug Kellner and Frank Morrow of The Alternative Information Network, dated June 2, 1989.
8. Harris letter to the author, dated December 15, 1992.
9. Chet Flippo, "Nitty Gritty Pick & Grin" in the October 14, 1971 issue of Rolling Stone. Also The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band web page from the Internet.
10. Telephone conversation with John Peets, manager of the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, May 12, 1999.
11. 6H328-329 (Shelley).
12. 6H390 (Victoria Adams).
13. 3H263 (Baker).
14. 24H226 (Shelley affidavit) and 6H330 (Shelley). Shelley and Lovelady had been inconsistent regarding their actions during the first minutes after the shooting. An entirely different story has them running out to the street island in front of the building to see what was going on. In an attempt to resolve these discrepanicies, I contacted William Shelley on March 20, 1995 and asked him if he would be willing to answer a few questions. His response was an abrupt no. He then added, "Everything that I have to say on that subject is in the public record. You'll have to go with that."
15. "The Fifth Floor Sniper" in the May 1993 issue of The Third Decade.
16. "Robert MacNeil and the Three Calm Men" in the November 1994 issue of The Fourth Decade.
17. 24H226 (Shelley affidavit).
18. The Warren Report, p. 619.
19. See "The Transplantation of the Texas School Book Depository" in the September 1993 issue of The Third Decade and "411 Elm Street" in the May 1994 issue of The Fourth Decade. Also see Jerry Rose's article "Important to Hold That Man" in the May 1986 issue of The Third Decade.
20. 6H327-328 (Shelley).
21. Telephone conversations with Tony Atzenhoffer, July 11 and August 15, 1998.
22. "Barry & the 'Boys'" by Daniel Hopsicker, Internet file, copyright 1998.
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I worked and flew with Adler Berriman Seal for many years. Also, I spent far too many hours on the telephone with Hopsicker (while he was shacked up with "Berry's widow) and he quotes me in his phony book.
Seal always signed off as "Berry", NOT Barry. There was NEVER an airport at LaCombe, LA, not even a private "grass strip" such as those used by crop-dusters. The nearest airport is at Slidell, some 13 miles distant towards the northeast. The next one is to the northwest at Mandeville, and almost 20 miles distant.
There was never a training camp at LaCombe, LA -- nor at Hammond, LA, -- nor at N.A.F. (LTA) Houma, LA , because the McLaney operation (involving Rich Lauchli, "Papucho" Espinoza, Herman Koch Gene, et al.) was a "Honey-Trap Op" to give the Cuban DGI Agents "handling" Ricardo Davis, Nico Crespi, and Oswald further bona fides that they were pro-Castro, and snitching out "Gusano" training/raider camps and operations.
NONE existed since we were there during early 1962, and so they had to be created out of thin air. When Paulino Sierra came down from Chicago with "Big Buck$", Sanchez Arango's AAA put on a phony show at the now defunct No Name Key site. Batista Falla (M.D.C.) wanted to sucker out some Sierra money, so he sent some clowns to Hammond, in tan/khaki uniforms but no guns. Laureano planned to sucker Sierra by making a deal with Guatemalen Roberto Alejos, who told him that any Cubans coming into Guatemala would have to chop wood, after they got work permits.
When the dumbass "Gusanos" discovered this farce, they immediately returned to Miami, went back to Flagler Surplus (W. Flagler & 17th Ave.) and traded in the khakis for 25 cents on the dollar !! Not to be outdone, Laureano had his guys grab Fernando Fernandez as a "Castro Spy". Because Fernandez was a real "Dangle', this blew a genuine penetration Op.
So, as we told Oliver Stone: We will build you a "Training Camp" (at Jean laFitte, LA); but the whole Garrison spiel on a Ponchartrain Camp is complete bullxxxx. It was Mike mcLaney doing a favor for RFK. Lauchli bitched about it later, after he had served his 2nd prison term -- and wanted to know why this whole sham went down? Especially since he had NEVER built the bomb fuses at his shop in Collinsville, Illinois.
Sorry folks, NO camps, no LHO & Ferrie, Russo, Novel, et al. -- just a pervert doing his duty for Marcello !!
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The First Special Service Force was a unique fighting force in many ways. Chiefly, and most famously thanks to the 1968 motion picture by United Artists, the force was bi-national, consisting of American and Canadian personnel. This unit, trained in amphibious, mountain, and airborne warfare was perhaps the most highly trained unit of its size to emerge from the Second World War.
Brief History
The genesis of the First Special Service Force was a British scientist who felt that mastery of the snows in Norway, through a specially designed vehicle, would permit Allied commandos to operate at will in that theatre and prevent the Germans from obtaining necessary raw materials from that area. The US War Office was convinced by the British Prime Minister, as well as the British Chief of Combined Operations (which oversaw commando training and operations), to develop such a machine. A joint force of specially trained light infantry from Canada and the United States were raised.
The proposed snow vehicle did in fact come into production, however the M29 "Weasel" never saw action in Norway, nor did the Canadian-American commandos expected to use it ever become issued with one.
Training in Montana, men of the 1SSF show their skill at skiing and parachute jumping. The Force was entirely equipped by the US Army, including weapons like the M1 Garand rifles shown here.
The commando force became known as the First Special Service Force, and was raised at Helena Montana under the command of Lieutenant Colonel Robert T. Frederick of the US Army, with a Canadian as second in command. Approximately half the leadership positions in this force were occupied by Canadians, with about 1/3 of the unit's personnel drawn from the Canadian Army. Conceptually the unit was a Brigade, though in terms of actual numbers, the unit was organized much differently (see below). The First Special Service Force title was adopted as a deception, to keep enemy units unaware of the Force's actual composition. Administratively, the Canadian component of the Force was known, at least in Ottawa, as the Second Canadian Parachute Battalion.
Entrance standards were high, and during the initial period of training, from July 1942 to the summer of 1943, was rigorous. All members of the Force became proficient in winter operations, including skiing, as well as parachute jumping (every man in the Force was a qualified parachutist) and amphibious operations. The FSSF, training in Virginia in mid 1943, bested even the leading Marine units in embarkation drills. Hand to hand combat training was emphasized, as was work with demolitions. The average age of the Force was a little higher than regular infantry, and most of the Forcemen had been non-commissioned officers prior to reassignment. The Force was thus very mature in outlook, and their growing skills were a testament to that.
The Force participated in the retaking of several islands in the Aleutian chain in August 1943; the Japanese had captured facilities here during the Battle of Midway in June 1942. By this time, the Force's expected mission - a large raid on Norway - had been cancelled. The Japanese had deserted the Aleutians, however, and the Forcemen saw no combat there.
In November 1943, the FSSF was on the other side of the world, reassigned to the United States Fifth Army, which was fighting its way north through the rugged mountainous terrain of Italy. After a 12 day attack was stopped cold at Mount la Difensa, the Force went in and cleared the veteran German 104th Panzergrenadier Regiment from the summit, a feat immortalized in the 1968 motion picture The Devil's Brigade. At Mount Sammucro, their next major battle, the Germans granted them the nickname which later served as the title of that film, individually referring to the Forcemen as "Black Devils." Mount Majo followed in January 1944, but by 8 January, after roughly two months in combat, the 1800 men making up the combat strength of the Force had dropped to just over 500.
At the end of January, the Force was ordered to the Anzio beachhead, where for 90 days they occupied defensive positions making up a large part of the entire perimeter. They patrolled aggressively, with the crack Hermann Goering Division opposite them. Replacement arrived during their time in the beachhead, and on 23 May 1944 the now-recovered FSSF moved forward again, leading the advance of VI Corps to Rome and the pursuit to the Tiber in June.
In August 1944, the Force was able to use its amphibious skills during the landings on islands flanking the invasion beaches in Southern France as part of Operation DRAGOON. The unit then fell under the operational control of the 1st Airborne Task Force, clearing the French coastline east to the Italian border. It was their last major mission, and in December 1944, with the need for specialized forces waning, the Force was disbanded. The Canadians went largely to the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion, the Americans to the 474th Infantry (Seperate) Regiment, or to US parachute units. The 474th finished the war in Norway, ironically enough.
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The Battle for Anzio and how failure to properly use deciphered German code stalled the invasion:
"In World War II, the beachhead invasion of Italy 22 Jan–23 May 1944 by Allied troops; failure to use information gained by deciphering German codes (see Ultra) led to Allied troops being stranded temporarily after German attacks. Allied troops were held on the beachhead for five months before the breakthrough after Monte Cassino allowed the US 5th Army to dislodge the Germans from the Alban Hills and allow the Anzio force to begin its advance on Rome."
Other alternatives? well.. yes, tho perhaps not quite what Garrison meant...
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snippets and from other topic
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...indpost&p=50229
The trail IS the conspiracy cover. Therefore it is available, and therefore it can be seen as a pointer to the assassins :
"This >>>historical administrative record shows<<< that the assassination was not the work of a lone nut nor renegade CIA-Mafia-Cuban intelligence network but a well planned, integrated, co-ordinated and official program--an inside job--coup d'etat by a domestic anti-Communist network active in the anti-Castro Cuban project"
"Why would the conspirators leave a paper trail leading to their door?" : to hide
"If anything, the conspirators are more likely to leave a paper trail leading to someone else." : ::exactly! and that someone else is :: "anti-Castro Cuban project"
"...the purpose...is to shield the actual perpetrators..."
The key is domestic:
"...A more progressive phase in his civil rights policies in 1963, with the introduction in Congress of a sweeping bill designed to end segregation, can be viewed as the domestic counterpart to this more accommodating thrust in his foreign policy” "
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three people in and around Anzio, two who ended up in Dallas, one who is known to have been in Dealey Plaza, with connections to the assassination. Angleton(OSS, defender of fascists, anti communist), Walker (fascist? strident anti communist), Carr, (expert marksman).
They all in their own way had a say in the direction all investigations have taken and generated information that have kept people happily looking (in the wrong place?) for decades.
Angleton, the Grand Master of Deception,and his Orchids, the Walker assassination attempt, and Carrs shape shifting testimonies.
Probably all just a coincidence. When starting to look at this there are just statements in separate biographies of WWII service involving Anzio.
Looking deeper, lo: there's the OSS and Angleton and Mussolinis Corporate Fascists fighting in Anzio AND protected by Angleton AND forming backbone of CIA anti democracy group..and Gladio.and the CIA. and at the start of the Rangers is Darby who graduated from West Point two years after Walker... and...??
...and twenty years later two of these are in Dallas, and at least one is an important witness of the assassination.
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A whole bunch of interesting names, personalities, and Bios !! And a whole bunch of people wasting most of their time, speculating as to "suspicious?" connections, grand conspiracies by evil-doers -- which now number in the thousands !! Sometimes I hope that somewhere out there, that: We will indeed find these "God-like" controllers of our soiled Universe. OPEC should immediately expend a few Billion and seek out these folks, and thereby complete "their" master plan to take over, and rightiously rule -- The Planet !!
"...The sky is falling...the sky is falling..."!! Always some "lumiditty-nutty" cabal, who, somehow -- have failed to "congeal" any great master-plan whatsoever. It seems that they just keep going -- like the energizer bunny; failing for many decades [or is it Centuries?] -- and the world remains in deep xxxx nevertheless ??!!
The evil CIA, FBI, Gestapo, ....uh oh !! Can't mention the Cheka, NKVD, MGB, MVD, GRU, KGB, you know -- those lovable wunderkind/jokester [M.A.S.H. type] guys -- who slaughtered over 50+ million of their own, and their slaves -- and even out-did Hitler at his best.
Just can't get away from linking the "Cover-up" with the perpetrators !! What a jolly good waste of time.
A cast of thousands, all smudging pics, altering hairstyles, flooding the crime scene with suspects [or their dopplegangers] -- and the 'week-end" 21 Baker Street Boys are going to nail their hides to the wall ??!!
One scribbler claims that he touristed around the Golden Triangle, getting all of the inside "dope" on Air America, the Ravens, Khun Hsa, Vang Pao, et al. -- and nobody really gave a xxxx, ah..but alas, they did try to off him ONE time ?? And those who were there ? Well, they seem to remember it a bit differently.
With all of their years in the bush, I would take their word first. One big ole guarantee: Whether you are a Cockburn, Anderson, or even a Volkmann -- people don't talk. But people like Sheehan, Wheaton, and a large gang of "gullible-grabbers" sure know how to cater to the politics of the forever and perpetually outraged [but don't do xxxx about it at all]
Gen. Frederick [CG - 1st Special Service Force WWII] was our guest during one of our 82nd Abn Div. Chapter [so. Florida] reunions [1967]. The host was the late Duff Matson, who had been the General's personal bodyguard in Italy, that is: after completing his "Dirty Dozen" operation a month earlier. [Duff was the last survivor of "The Dozen"]
S/Sgt. Barry Sadler ["Hymn of the Green Berets"] stopped by the following week [KIA in Guatemala '70s]. We always ran in a small circle, and some bunch of amateur bookreaders will never get the "drift" of what our reality was, and continues to be !! So, keep scribbling, pointing your widdle fingers everywhere, and you might luck out -- and actually identify a real evil-doer -- NOT !!
Of course there was a cover-up, but NOT as specious and wide ranging as some of these wet-dreamers re-invent every month or two. However, that the cover-up was organized and carried out to protect some "Dr. No", "Klingon", "Heaven's Gate" [pass me the Kool-Aid please] planetary, inter-planetary masterminds -- PLEASE, I wish that they were out there. We might just have some order within our slave-gangs and Harems for once ??!!
Now we have this guy Carr as our latest Perp, oh yeah -- he was in that evil WWII thingy !!
WHO is next ??!!
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Is this person named Paul Helliwell?
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Gerry,
This is definitely "light weight" compared to John's question, but here goes: Regarding your encounter with LHO outside the Cuban consul's home in Monterey Park, Calif (according to the March 4, 2005 newspaper article written by Mssrs Gratz and Howell and viewable, courtesy of John Simkin, at http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKhemming.htm ), I understand that LHO "took off" too fast (for lack of a better phrase) for you "to get the license plate." I'm just wondering, was LHO driving or was he a passenger? If he was a passenger, any idea who the "getaway driver" was?
Thanks, Thomas
P.S. Keep up the good work!
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So that you don't have to "wade through" the muck & mire of Khazar Weberman's "NoduRhoids", I will give a short response.
Contained in the still retained CIA "00" Cuba debriefs, is the complete story of the LHO encounters in Monterey Park, Cuba [non-encounters], etc. !! Also included in those late 1960 reports were the names of all personnel at both the Cuban Embassy, and the adjoining Consulate; including that of Silvia Duran, "cut-out" contacts with the Sandinistas, et al. !!
LHO "took-off" walking [downhill] towards Atlantic Blvd. the first time. After his second visit, I asked a barber friend [with a shop on Atlantic Blvd.] to use my binoculars to spot LHO and any accomplices when I called him from the Cuban (M.P.) Consulate. He later gave me [not over the tapped telephone] a complete description of a UC type vehicle [sedan] -- with radio antennas, and government license plates on both the front and rear -- as is required by California DMV regulations.
GPH
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The one person who had 90% of the real facts assembled in a rational form, died during 1974. His death seemingly opened the door, for the then DCI Bill Colby, to terminate Angleton. However, Colby had made a gross mistake, in thinking that this "Possessor-of-Family-Jewels" was JJA's ONLY "Ace-in-the-Hole" !! Which was the genuine reason that Angleton remained active at his office for the next several months.
This "Person", has only been mentioned by name once, during the last 40+ years !! However, and due to the "infamous character" of the writer, said reference was totally ignored. TOO BAD FOLKS, you've NOT been played ["Like-a-Violin"] by professionals -- you played yourselves, ab initio, into a ridiculous and seemingly endless, quandry.
Is this person named Paul Helliwell?
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The last time I gave a "NEW" name to this forum, he was denounced as a xxxx, possible accomplice in the JFK murder, etc., and etc., ad nauseum. I would expect that this person's name would be JOYFULLY EXCEPTED by some of the scribblers on this forum, as he fits ALL profiles -- and therefore may be safely accused of everything, or nothing !!
Helliwell was a "chairborne-flunky-in-the-field"; which was just a continuation of his bullxxxx activities in China with OSS Detachment #202 -- which "Kow-towed" to Chiang Kai...er "Chunk-a-xxxx" -- as General "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell called him.
"90%er" was a foreigner who rarely traveled to the U.S.; but did have his proteges inside ALL aspects of CIA activities, especially the Clandestine Service. One of his proteges served as the "cut-out" who delivered ALL of the spy stories claimed [plagiarized] by Ian Fleming. The Brit ["John LeCarre"] also got quite a bit of the "Smiley" tales from the "90%er" !!
He had guysliving for weeks at a time at RFK's "Hickory Hill" [all foreign born], and they were instrumental in convincing JFK/RFK to reorganize the Navy "Frogmen" [u.D.T.] into the USN "SEALS". The last of the younger ones came to the Honduras "Contra" operation with the Argentine miltary "advisors" -- as these guys had maintained permanent status within the Argentine military since post-WWII !!
I have queried some of the foremost experts on these matters, and they too are completely in the dark.
I await some more "innocuos" letters, FAXes, e-mails, UPS & FedX deliveries this week. It seems that I should have paid more attention to some of the seemingly oblique references which were then made by JJA during the 1970s; but at that time I was thoroughly disinterested in the subject matter.
That all changed when WerBell took it upon himself to charge into operations where he had no expertise whatsover, and this was ignored, because by then Lou Conein was at the top of the heap. Bob Brown [sOF/Mag] had long before given up on WerBell's bullxxxx, and wasn't anxious to be around any of his Ops, but did give us an assist on the 1974 Honduras, etc. Op.
I am NOT about to have somebody's family name pilloried, that is until I find what I am looking for. "90%er" is already "Infamous" -- and maybe somebody here [or out in the "Pro" community] will connect some dots ??!!
GPH
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Gerry,
There is an allegation, and I will leave it at that that 'a couple of months before the assassination the FBI (don't have a name) went to the TSBD and asked them to hire Lee Harvey Oswald for 'national security purposes.' Can you confirm or deny the accuracy of this allegation?
Introducing a provocative tone to a discussion tends to stall things and obviously one would prefer this not to happen. There are many ways of saying 'I think you are wrong'. There are also educational techniques that are 'provocative' in nature. On the whole I don't think it possible to have discussions that entirely avoid these 'negative' influences, but I think an acknowledgement that they exist and an understanding of why they do, helps to avoid 'biting' the bait. For this reason the existence of these influences are instructive. They are part of the 'kitchen' atmosphere.
To keep the temperature down to a productive optimum, it is advisable to pause for a while and not fan the flames. This is probably a topic that could be dealt with separately, and it has to some extent in various 'monologues' and topic side tracks. A perusal of KUBARK, a consideration of 'agents provocateurs', opportunism, wrecking as well as some of the promotional techniques adopted by less scrupulous advertising entities, and similar well documented aspects cover the more seedy 'raisons d'etre'. Perhaps a familiarity with the various educational methods, basic psychology and also cultural differences can help as well. In Australia gross insults to 'familiars' are signs of endearment, in other cultures may very well be a trigger for long feuds.
One way or another it needs to be acknowledged and dealt with.
For my part I find that pausing, and being aware that the infection of negativity is easy to transfer to those not 'guilty' for a period of time following said 'infection', helps.
__________________________________
That said, meanwhile, back at the ranch. A lot is being asked of Gerry at the moment, but I hope he will attend to elaborating here. I wonder how one would go about establishing code when even the process of doing so can be intercepted. I supect it is necessary to consider it WILL be intercepted and therefore would have to be approached with extreme caution. Therefore it would seem that the assassination participants would definitely have had past dealings, not a spurious once off at all?
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It's been a long night for me !! Russo has just sent out a document with reference to almost two years of work with a prize winning German documentary cinematographer. I was interviewed by this same team about 4 years ago, while I was doing 8 months in the local VA hospital.
The boss, Willi, and his "Kraut Krew", had just come up from Havana 4 days previous. I was amazed at the detail and knowledge of these guys. I made a vague reference to a relatively unknown dissident in Havana [now deceased] and Willi came up with his name in a split second.
Unfortunately, Russo still insists that LHO "dood da deed" and this documentary evidently will show LHO's extensive contacts with Fidel's guys in Mexico, D.F. ??!! And while I agree that all of that might well be true, and that Cuban Intel guys were interviewed [making admissions against interest] while being filmed in Havana.
It still doesn't get to the inside of exactly the WHYs & WHATs of LHO's "Intel Tasks" ??!! Some ex-KGB guys are also interviewed, VIP Cuban exiles also -- and thousands of back-up documents.
ALL OF WHICH tells us exactly -- ZIP !!
The inference that LHO was positioned at the TSBD well in advance, and by folks with inside scoop on the motorcade route is really a stretch !! Was he hired by "The TSBD Company" directly, and by Roy Truly personally ?? The WC says so. Which means absolutely zilch to me.
Having LHO anywhere within 50 miles of Dallas was all that was necessary. Any operator could have fixed up a story that: LHO was seen sneaking inside the building behind everone's back, got to the "Sniper's Nest??" -- and "dood da deed".
"FABRICATION" is the name of the WC game. That they got LHO actually inside and employed at the TSBD was a real stroke of luck; and I often have wondered exactly how well they did with their "Back-Up Patsies??" -- those needed, should the VBIED have been exploded by the Union Corse guys ??
Jacks photo ["shooter's view"] explains the thousand words I raised as to the pipes, the required low shooter's "sitting" [NOT kneeling] firing position, etc. -- but look again and put youself in that window, which in reality, only raises up halfway.
EXACTLY how many seconds would it have taken to view the motorcade head on; then after identifying EXACTLY which Limo contained the target(s) -- then resuming a squatting/sitting firing position, and once again -- being damn sure, which motorcade vehicle was the correct one ??!! What you might call a "snap decision" for an very anxious, and rank amateur !!
How does any shooter use a SCOPE, when is obviously blocked by the bottom edge of the window ??
Later, we can discuss the 25+ mile p/hour gusts of wind blowing down through the streets and buildings at that very moment. The wind was from the "North" [according to aviation WX reports that day]; which means that a slight correction [to the right] for "Windage" was necessary. Otherwise, IF you aimed at Connally, the wind would blow the bullet to the left -- even over that short and downward shot, that is: IF anyone believes the "Sniper's Nest" bullxxxx story ??!!
GPH
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Colby is not aware that Wiegman, who caught several clear frames
of the pedestal, SHOWS THE PEDESTAL WITH NOBODY ON TOP.
Apparently in the dragnet of films, the govt missed this.
In FULL SUNLIGHT, Wiegman should have shown SOMETHING
on top of the pedestal. Below, Wiegman is compared to Betzner.
Both are in b/w just seconds apart.
Jack
In the Wiegman frame below which shows NOBODY ON THE PEDESTAL,
I have moved the man in the hardhat from the curb to the pedestal
to show what a person in FULL SUNLIGHT would look like.
Jack
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Jack:
As I remember the Pergola area, the Zapruder "pedestal" is farther to the right, and just out of that photo.
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Ray,
In case anyone missed it, Attached below is Steve Thomas's piece on this subject which first appeared on Lancer. I would like to thank Mr. Thomas for his many excwellent posts on this and other forums, and especially for setting the record straight on the snap that never was.
Thank you.
Steve
I agree with Raymond, so I'll tack on the response I made in the other thread.
It raises some questions for me.
"QUOTE(Steve Thomas @ Dec 26 2005, 04:20 PM)
......If Oswald had attempted to shoot Officer McDonald, why were no charges of attempted murder filed as they were in the case of Governor Connally?
I believe that the account of Oswald trying to shoot McDonald was invented after the fact.
Steve Thomas
I reckon you may have the 'nub' of it there Steve.
why invent it?? (when was it invented?) The evidence for Lee as assassin was supposed to be good? Why feel there is a need to elaborate with something so convincingly disassembled?
Perhaps because the rest of the evidence, if put under rigorous scrutiny, would be shown to be shaky as well? (The directive after all was to convince the public that Lee is guilty and acted alone.)
(Another reason that comes to mind is to justify the obvious beating Lee had suffered. It seems that this is a reason often used by the police around the world to justify brutality. As pointed out previously, here was a suspect in a cop killing. Possibly the only thing regarded by the average Patroleman as more pressing on the day than the assassination of Kennedy.)
(Also to consider may be that even with 'known' serial killers, they are on occasion only charged with one murder at a time, keeping less 'important' things in reserve. After all the idea (as far as I know) is if someone is found not guilty for whatever reason on one charge then they can't be charged with it again?)
On the whole it seems that perhaps the DPD had real doubt that Lee 'did it'."
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Steve, I wonder if you (or anyone can rattle off an account re the time line of Police arrivals and surrounding waiting entering etc with a view to among other things answer the question of 'when did the lights come on'?. Before or after police entering the theatre. I find the loss by McDonald of his flashlight interesting. It may mean he had it out because it was dark at first. For me it's an issue in considering Lee's choice of the theatre and staying to get arrested. If he was going to fight why not try running? If not running why fight?
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John:
After many days of scouting and walking the entire Oak Cliff area during the 1991 filming, Oliver Stone inquired as to "my take" on the whole matter. I made it quite plain, simple, and to the point.
[1] LHO had arrived at his Neely Street "Safe House" by means other than a taxi cab, and in accordance with proper tradecraft, had insured that he hadn't dismounted from the vehicle anywhere near that locale.
[proper tradecraft involves NEVER permitting a transporter, courier, "dead-drop" vector, or support entity to discover the location of your safe house.];
[2] LHO had been instructed that: Should anything untoward occur that day, he was to proceed directly to said safe house, dispose of any "one-time" code pads, "sterilize" the area (bedroom, bathroom, etc.), don the "sterile" clothes required for travel. His orders were to then proceed to the "Treff" signal point -- which was the shoe store, and upon arrival, give the correct hand signal to a previously identified (covertly) employee inside;
[3] LHO then proceeded to walk directly south on Zangs Blvd., and upon arrival at Jefferson, turned and walked to the shoe store, where he gave the correct "high sign" to whomever was inside [it is quite possible that Brewer was not that contact person, and there was NEVER a necessity for travel to the 10th & Patton area];
[4] LHO then calmly walked to the pre-arranged "Treff" site (the Texas Theater), and not wanting to draw attention to himself, walked inside. He may well have awaited the "wickett" lady (or the manager) so that he might pay admission, but grew impatient, and went immediately to the agreed upon seat location;
[5] LHO understood that tradecraft required his "Treff" contact to approach him from the rear, and would take a seat behind him (so that neither of the two would ever recognize the other)!! LHO expected that he would be handed "The Package". Said Package would contain further instructions as to: His required tasks necessary to the execution of his pre-planned "Immediate-Action-Drill", or an "E & E" plan;
["The Package" would be a coded (or a note in secret writing), a set of travel documents, funds, amd the necessary alias identification];
[6] LHO may have thought that the person walking around with the flashlight was an usher, and probably gave him no further attention. (the flashlight user, possibly a "Stalker" or a "Closer", and armed with a variety of lethal devices, including, but not limited to: "Prussic Acid" dispenser, silenced pistol, large insulin syrette, etc.)
[7] LHO was approached by what appeared to be numerous police officers. One (under orders) may have attempted to murder him with a cheap "throw-down" revolver (of the untraceable type)!! LHO did thereupon grab the weapon, disarmed the cop, further resisted, and thereby saved his life temporarily. (LHO no doubt, also saved the real/phony cop's life, as he would have been shortly "neutered"); and,
[8] LHO, as per tradecraft, carried no identification whatsoever, and this aroused the arresting/escorting officers' suspicions that much more, unless previously ordered to remain mute with regard to LHO !!
One bit of testimony (deposition/affidavit??) had described McDonald's actions, or those of some other cop? It stated in relevant part that: What prevented LHO's revolver from firing was -- the cop having inserted the web (between thumb & index finger) of his "right hand" twixt the hammer and frame of the revolver !! However, upon examination, there was NO firing pin marking on any cop's hand, so the story was conveniently "forgotten".
I doubt that LHO ever met with Jack Ruby, much less even knew of his existence. The continual insertion of dubious "cover story" increments from the Warren Commission, HSCA, etc. only tends to nullify attempts at developing an accurate disposition of these events. This is exactly the case where, step-by-step anaysis in a rational chronological order, is of the utmost necessity.
Chairs,
GPH
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I have yet to read the book, but found something which might have a bearing on the reliability of one of its main sources, Harry Williams. On the Mary Ferrell site there are a number of old essays by researchers. In "The Assignment of G. Robert Blakey", by Richard E. Sprague, presumably written in the early 80's, Sprague writes that the HSCA failed in part because they had Richard Helms on the stand but that "They didn't ask him about Harry Williams' statement that Helms, Hunt, Williams, and Lyman Kirkpatrick were together in Washington, D.C. on November 22, 1963, talking about the CIA supporting another invasion of Cuba, without JFK's knowledge."
Does anyone know where Sprague got this? Did Williams really say this? Is this covered in Ultimate Sacrifice? If Williams really said this then as far as I'm concerned his credibility is nil. Hunt and Kirkpatrick in the same room planning an invasion of Cuba, WITHOUT JFK's knowledge? This is not only completely incompatible with UT's central premise, it's also incompatible with everything we know about the inner politics of the CIA in 1963. Kirkpatrick was the number one critic within the CIA of the BOP; Bissell and Barnes despised him; Hunt was working for Barnes in '63, apparently, not on Cuba. The idea that these four men would be in a room together on November 22 is absurd. After all, when put to the test, Hunt testfied he was with his wife in a Chinese market when the assassination occurred. He couldn't remember if he worked that day. If he'd been with these other three, how come none of them testified on his behalf?
Those that wish to believe in Sprague's accuracy--he repeats this argument in The Taking of America (Tim Gratz's favorite book)--are seemingly forced to choose between trusting Sprague or the new book. We can be pretty sure that Sprague made more than his share of mistakes. Are Waldron and Hartmann's faith in Williams' story a similar mistake?
I looked through the book today and found that it does indeed cover Sprague's statements, on pages 135-136. Sprague's source on Williams was a 1973 conversation he had with Haynes Johnson. Evidently, Johnson interviewed Williams in the sixties while writing his book on the Bay of Pigs. Johnson himself has mentioned Williams' statements in two articles, both written for the Washington Post in the 80's.
What was surprising to me, upon looking through their book, is that Waldron and Hartmann spin Williams' statement into being a statement that supports their claims. They take the statement that Williams was meeting with the CIA on November 22nd and planning an invasion behind the president's back as somehow being a statement that supports that the President and AG were planning an invasion. To them it makes sense that Kirkpatrick would be involved in the planning, to insure that he would approve or some such thing. This is silly, IMO. If the Sec. of Defense and Sec. of State. were cut out of the loop, I sincerely doubt Kirkpatrick and Hunt would be included. Hunt had worked with the exiles back in the day but had cut-out before the BOP because he so disliked Manolo Ray. Would he then be brought back and consulted on a new plan, that included Ray (and perhaps others to the left of Ray)? (Or was Ray cut-out of the plan by then?) Everything I've read indicates that the Kennedy brothers trusted Rusk and McNamara more than they did the CIA. I'm extremely skeptical of this scenario.
Adding to my skepticism is that Waldron and Hartmann fail to even deal with the problem of Hunt's presence. If Hunt was with Helms and Kirkpatrick on that date then why weren't they called in Hunt's trial against Marchetti and the Libery Lobby? Why wasn't Williams called? As Ron has pointed out, Helms makes no mention of this meeting in his memoirs. Why would this meeting be covered-up at the expense of Hunt's lawsuit? That Hunt may have been involved in the assassination is a HELL of a lot more damaging to the prestige of the CIA than that he had a meeting that day with a Cuban exile. Big whoop. No one would have cared one bit.
To their credit, Waldron and Hartmann tried to contact Haynes Johnson to verify Sprague's notes of the 1973 conversation, but received no response. If I'm not mistaken, Waldron and Hartmann failed to confront Williams with this story, to gauge his response. If so, someone needs to do this. If he stands by this story, someone needs to talk to Hunt and see if he will suddenly remember where he was on November 22. Until that point, I believe Sprague's statements should be held against Williams' credibility.
It's been pointed out to me that the evidence for the invasion exists outside Williams' credibility, and is really in the documents. This appears to be true. But it's also been acknowledged that Williams was Waldron and Hartmann's main source that there was indeed someone close to Castro willing to go along with the plans... As most everyone has come away from the book with the idea that this man was Che, then it would appear that Williams was their source that Che was willing to overthrow Castro in cahoots with the USA, even the CIA. Does anyone really believe this? I mean, why would an anti-Castro Cuban try and smear the memory of Che with such a story? Hmmm...could it be that young children everywhere are growing up believing that Che was a man of great nobility, and a HERO, while men like...let's say Harry Williams... have largely been ignored???
I'm anxious to read Gerry Hemming's response to this. Should we trust Williams? Do you really believe that Che would betray Castro? In league with the CIA? Or is the leader in Ultimate Sacrifice someone other than Che?
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Pat:
There is NO WAY that "Che" would have betrayed the "Revolucion", especially if it included a horde of Batistianos "waiting-in-the-wings". The reality of late 1963 was: That Harry still had RFK's ear, but Manolo Reboso was considered the Cuban Intel/Paramilitary "expert". And especially when considering any short /long-range strategies re: a coup d'etat against Fidel's ever shrinking clique. As usual, the "insider", Harry has failed to grasp that: Other anti-Castro Cubans, especially those without a "Batista-taint"; had been operating [since March 1963] as totally compartmented groups.
That Harry later discovered that he was NOT even in the 10% of "the know", was no doubt a shock to his ego. This happened to everybody who grew "more political than military", especially when the focus was on long range politico/military options.
Artime, and his wannabe "leaders", had been shipped out to, isolated within, the camps in Nicaragua and Costa Rica. That Artime, et al. didn't have a clue as to tradecraft or paramilitary operations, had been well known even before the BOP.
The driving force behind the September through December 1963 operations was:
The later Cuban views on that period are, in pertinent part, reflected here:
[www.canadiannetworkoncuba.ca/Documents/rafters.shtml]
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I have asked a number of questions in the past regarding things you have posted here. Let's also consider them irrelevant. Let us focus on the two questions that matter most to all who post here, and see where your answers to them might lead:
1. Do you know who killed President Kennedy?
2. If so, who did it?[/color]
So Gerry: If you know anything about the above two questions all here would appreciate an honest answer.
If, of course, you are capable of honesty.
Dawn
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More "Yanking of the Chain" Ms. Public Defender ?! What part of "The Jury is Still OUT" is it, that you've failed to grasp ??!!
My most intense focus [when I was absolutely bored to death, and had time on my hands] was "Proving" that none of my guys had "dood-da-deed" !!
40+ years later, and after suffering decades of slanderous, libelous, and INANE insinuations, and allegations -- accusing me, and/or my associates, of having murdered the President of the United States, we find a fresh crew of "Garrisonnites" who are dedicated at making a name for themselves !!
When the scribblers shifted to the "Watergate Bungl..er..Burglars", the tramps, Landsdale, Harrelson, Elvis, Mickey Mouse, Judge Crater, Cock Robin, et al. -- one would think that the finger had shifted ?! That, even maybe, we might even gain some respite !! NO, they were puking-up -- just "More faces in the Dealey Plaza Crowd", and destined to be added to the ever-growing list of "usual suspects" !!
Now, and even with Bush 43's press "mouthpiece" looking askance at his very own father, you might believe the finger had shifted away from "No Name Key" !! NOT !!
How the hell would I know the exact who and/or why of the JFK murder ?? 99% of the allegations are seemingly reinforced by what activities we were engaged in at the time. I have attempted to clarify some of the history of those rather unimportant activities.
But the scribblers want to take, even the most innocous of our actions, as proof positive that: This, indeed demonstrates a devious even more devious purposes being self-orchestrated.
I don't know "The Who, nor The Why !! But I do know about some of the WHO, and they are those who indeed possess some pieces of the puzzle. In most cases, they appear to be ignorant of these critical pieces, and therefore can't -- or will NOT, make an attempt at connecting the dots.
I received a UPS yesterday, and just thinking about what I am going to find in those pages; has made me physically ill. I got into the 90%er again [after years of stupid ignorance on my part -- that is: ignoring the obvious] because I thought that a couple of scriveners had been either stupid, or were lying, or had been lied to.
A couple of weeks seeking out some previously "mentally blocked" personalities rammed me down the road to connecting some intrigueing dots. There are strong indications which indicate that: Many of this forum's members have been "partially" correct all along. But, with more scrutiny, facts and evidence, tends to lower a severely darkened caste upon those tragic events of 1963 through 1968 !!
That Fidel would even think about approving a hit on JFK is lunacy. And this despite his own "Kamikaze" attitude of the months previous ["Missile Crisis"]. However, that subordinates, or overzealous protectors, or coup d'etat schemers; acting, either to save his life, or their own grab for power, is NOT to be ignored.
What has NOT been ignored, or missed by investigators is the clear evidence that: Fidel had indeed taken severe punitive actions, some in the immediate aftermath, and some not that long ago. The crux of the mystery is: Were these punitive terminations/neutering -- "a punishment, and/or a cover-up"?? And were they orchestrated by his internal friends, or by his [within his regime] scheming foes ??!!
My quest has been: To locate those who might have Either some of the pieces, or have connected some of the dots. Now I am ruining some worthless holidays by my centering upon this 90%er. I have been totally sickened by it !! At least it will be more interesting study than the other 90%er phony-ass scribbler's crap.
NO, I am NOT about to launch yet another series of faces or names into the worthless side of the fray !!
I have once again, reached out to people who: Either haven't a clue, have no interest, don't give a xxxx, and more importantly; can't remember [and confirm] some innocous series of "nothing" events. All of which, means: The connecting of some very serious dots.
And I am not too happy about this crap at all !! Those with expertise in this matter wouldn't be of assistance whatsoever. The dots are not part of the "nefarious" mozaic of things, but seemingly ordinary happenstance events.
] I can't even think of a person, who, amongst those dwelling in the CT and/or LNer element -- who would of assistance !! This involves locating people [and names] situated on the outer orbital periphery of this entire matter.
Time to go "Back to Work", and you will have to seek your "positive responses" elsewhere, I don't have them -- I DON'T KNOW !!
Chairs,
GPH
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If anybody studies the history of investigating covert operations, you will see that most of the useful information that we have about cases like the JFK assassination, Watergate, October Surprise, Iran-Contra, CIA and Drug Dealing, etc. has come from “inside” sources or what Gerry Hemming calls “snitches”. My dictionary defines a snitch as: “One who reveals wrongdoing within an organization to the public or to those in positions of authority.” Despite its unpleasant sounding name, I believe “snitches” are good people and play an important role in a democratic society. (I prefer to call them by a more respectable sounding name, “whistleblower”). Gerry is also clearly a snitch/whistleblower.
Like it or not, people involved in investigating political conspiracies, have to rely on “inside” sources. As these conspiracies nearly always involve covert and illegal actions, it is virtually impossible to rely on the normal documentary evidence usually available to journalists and historians. It is of course highly unlikely that people involved in these illegal activities will record it for posterity. In rare circumstances this does happen, for example, the tape recordings of Richard Nixon and Lyndon Johnson. However, both these men did this to help them write their memoirs and did not expect them to enter the public domain. These two high profile examples have virtually guaranteed this will ever happen again. For example, during the UK investigation into the background of the invasion of Iraq, it was discovered that Tony Blair insisted that no minutes should be kept of these private discussions that took place concerning this proposed action. I expect George Bush did the same.
Since starting my website in 1997 I have been contacted by a large number of whistleblowers. The main reason for this is that my webpage on them is usually ranked very high at Google. For example, both my pages on Gerry Hemming and Tosh Plumlee are ranked number one at Google. Therefore, my interpretation of them becomes very important. It is in their interest to contact me and to negotiate about what I have said about them.
Over the years I think I have become fairly good at working out who is telling me the truth. I use this experience when looking at any information that comes from “inside” sources. These are the sorts of questions I ask of this information:
(1) I am very interested in motivation. Why did this person become a whistleblower? Were they seeking money? Were they attempting to gain revenge against an individual or organization? I have found the most convincing whistleblowers are those who seem to be genuinely appalled by the behavior of the people they are informing on. I am even more impressed if they are appalled by their own behavior.
(2) Do they know too much? One of the problems with disinformation agents is that they often know too much. What we know about conspiracies is that individuals involved are only told about their section of the convert operation. Yet some whistleblowers claim to have details about the whole conspiracy. They would only know about this if they had overall charge of theoperation. Therefore, I am much more willing to believe them if they only tell me a small amount. I am always impressed when they answer “I don’t know”.
(3) It is a fact that one of the problems for the police when they are investigating high profile murders is that a great deal of their time is taken up by people making “false” confessions. These people are suffering from an identifiable psychological problem. They have a strong need to be in the limelight. To be someone of importance, even if it means they have to confess to being a murderer. I suspect this psychological condition explains why some people provide false information on political conspiracies.
(4) Disinformation agents. Victor Marchetti has described this type of CIA operation as a “limited hangout”. To quote Marchetti: “A "limited hangout" is spy jargon for a favorite and frequently used gimmick of the clandestine professionals. When their veil of secrecy is shredded and they can no longer rely on a phony cover story to misinform the public, they resort to admitting - sometimes even volunteering some of the truth while still managing to withhold the key and damaging facts in the case. The public, however, is usually so intrigued by the new information that it never thinks to pursue the matter further.” All those who come forward with information must be considered as potential disinformation agents.
(5) How do they react when questioned? Some inside sources react in a very aggressive way when asked follow-up questions. This is because that the question implies that you have doubts about the truthfulness of previous answers. Sometimes they even start talking about suing your for libel. Those who are telling the truth are much more relaxed about this questioning process.
(6) It is not enough for the witness to be convinced they are telling the truth. For example, a study of people responsible for death by dangerous driving, came up with some interesting results. Apparently, some people cannot face up to the reality of what they have done. They therefore tell themselves over and over again what they believe actually happened. They also tell the same story to all those who are willing to listen to them. In this story they are not responsible for the death they have caused. However, all the available evidence (witness statements, skid marks on the road, etc.), indicate they are not telling the truth. Even so, they appear very convincing because they really believe they are telling the truth. I think some sources of information fall into this category.
(7) The witness tells their story in a clear and uncomplicated way. This is very important as it allows you to check the story against other available evidence.
(8) The information they give is consistent over time. They do not change their story after evidence is provided that suggests they have made a mistake in an earlier version of events.
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John:
Though it is way beyond my bed-time; I will attempt to reconcile and resolve some of your rather naive' "assumptions" !!
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I hope you don’t mind Al but I would like to broaden this discussion out to consider all “inside” sources.
If anybody studies the history of investigating covert operations, you will see that most of the useful information that we have about cases like the JFK assassination, Watergate, October Surprise, Iran-Contra, CIA and Drug Dealing, etc. has come from “inside” sources or what Gerry Hemming calls “snitches”. My dictionary defines a snitch as: “One who reveals wrongdoing within an organization to the public or to those in positions of authority.” Despite its unpleasant sounding name, I believe “snitches” are good people and play an important role in a democratic society. (I prefer to call them by a more respectable sounding name, “whistleblower”). Despite his obvious aggression towards Tosh, Gerry is also clearly a snitch/whistleblower.
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[A] First off, a "whistleblower is usually someone working inside, either a corporate or government entity, and who -- while doing highly rated and complaint-free work -- grows tired of abuses, corruption, incompetence, etc. !! In more than just a few cases; it is because the work products are immediately hazardous to customers or even a threat to a nation's security !! In many cases the "whistleblower has a very clean record -- and is under no personal obligation to complain of said deficiencies.
Nevertheless, in the immediate aftermath of the exposure, of said malfeasance/misfeasance/nonfeasance; and the subsequent outcry or scandal, the guilty miscreants immediately label the whistleblower as just another "Disgruntled and/or Vengeful Employee. With emphasis placed on statements by supervisors that: said "whistleblower" was always known to be disloyal to the "outfit".
On the other hand, a "snitch" is somebody who has been caught committing an offense, and in order to get a good deal, and avoid prison time, he offers to become a snitch. Usually, he is required to first "snitch-out" his rap-partners [partners-in-crime] and this quickly isolates him from any peer support -- and prepares the ground for future snitch work.
Shortly thereafter, he is being farmed out to do stings, insider-snitching, set-ups, etc. -- all in order to remain free and "on the street" !!
Do you NOTICE the difference now ??
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Like it or not, people involved in investigating political conspiracies, have to rely on “inside” sources. As these conspiracies nearly always involve covert and illegal actions, it is virtually impossible to rely on the normal documentary evidence usually available to journalists and historians. It is of course highly unlikely that people involved in these illegal activities will record it for posterity. In rare circumstances this does happen, for example, the tape recordings of Richard Nixon and Lyndon Johnson. However, both these men did this to help them write their memoirs and did not expect them to enter the public domain. These two high profile examples have virtually guaranteed this will ever happen again. For example, during the UK investigation into the background of the invasion of Iraq, it was discovered that Tony Blair insisted that no minutes should be kept of these private discussions that took place concerning this proposed action. I expect George Bush did the same.
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This is exactly why most miscreants at the top levels of government are extremely cautious in their selections of underlings and co-conspirators !!
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If anybody studies the history of investigating covert operations, you will see that most of the useful information that we have about cases like the JFK assassination, Watergate, October Surprise, Iran-Contra, CIA and Drug Dealing, etc. has come from “inside” sources or what Gerry Hemming calls “snitches”. My dictionary defines a snitch as: “One who reveals wrongdoing within an organization to the public or to those in positions of authority.” Despite its unpleasant sounding name, I believe “snitches” are good people and play an important role in a democratic society. (I prefer to call them by a more respectable sounding name, “whistleblower”). Despite his obvious aggression towards Tosh, Gerry is also clearly a snitch/whistleblower.
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[C] Return to [A] -- and review once again the stark distinctions between "whistleblowers" -- with no "Sword of Damocles" hanging over their heads, and which is the prime causal factor in their later making of accurate, to the point, an "honest" revelations !!
The"Snitch" has suffered jail or prison time, or has the threat of future charges and/or indictments hanging over his/her head . That, and only THAT, is the causal factor in their revelations; and rarely are they EVER made public, but remain as "sealed secrets" of grand juries !!
"Tooshee" snitched repeatedly, and ONLY in order to get loose from further incarceration, not from some epiphany or his having suddenly gotten religion. Naturally, all of this must be "consecrated" by a desire to"make-a-clean-breast-of-it" !!
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In rare circumstances this does happen, for example, the tape recordings of Richard Nixon and Lyndon Johnson.
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[D] Quite a few of the LBJ tapes are phonied, for instance: During the 1965 Dominican Republic Crisis, the captions/narrator claims that: When he is talking to "Davidson" down in the DomRep, that this is supposed to be Abe Fortas !! Well, here is some news !! That is the voice of I. Irving Davidson, and that is exactly with whom he is scheming. During that exact same period of time -- I was working with Davidson to create a "3rd Force" [approved by the OAS].
It's on the web, check it out. Even Weberman got some of that correct !!
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Over the years I think I have become fairly good at working out who is telling me the truth. I use this experience when looking at any information that comes from “inside” sources. These are the sorts of questions I ask of this information:
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[E] Well, for more than 50+ years, I've never been sure about ANY of the folks I encountered, especially where telling the truth -- was a life and death situation !! NOT some tea party at academe !!
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Since starting my website in 1997 I have been contacted by a large number of whistleblowers. The main reason for this is that my webpage on them is usually ranked very high at Google. For example, both my pages on Gerry Hemming and Tosh Plumlee are ranked number one at Google. Therefore, my interpretation of them becomes very important. It is in their interest to contact me and to negotiate about what I have said about them.
Over the years I think I have become fairly good at working out who is telling me the truth. I use this experience when looking at any information that comes from “inside” sources. These are the sorts of questions I ask of this information:
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[F] I'm willing to learn, that is: If you will cite to some peer reviewed treatises on these matters !!
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(1) I am very interested in motivation. Why did this person become a whistleblower? Were they seeking money? Were they attempting to gain revenge against an individual or organization? I have found the most convincing whistleblowers are those who seem to be genuinely appalled by the behavior of the people they are informing on. I am even more impressed if they are appalled by their own behavior.
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[G] Most snitches are quite wise to the gullible. especially with those who want to believe they about to reform, and are "outraged" by something, but you've usually got to tell them, and feed them THAT SOMETHING -- or they get confused, just like "Tooshie' !! If James Richards comes up with another photo, and it is "Spiderman", don't be shocked when "Tooshee" comes clean all over the webmaster-man !!
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(2) Do they know too much? One of the problems with disinformation agents is that they often know too much. What we know about conspiracies is that individuals involved are only told about their section of the convert operation. Yet some whistleblowers claim to have details about the whole conspiracy. They would only know about this if they had overall charge of theoperation. Therefore, I am much more willing to believe them if they only tell me a small amount. I am always impressed when they answer “I don’t know”.
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[H] And here we have a clown who, like "Chickenman" has been Forrest Gumping EVERYWHERE during the last 40+ years, and never even saw a "compartment" -- he knew everything !!
Just yesterday, On "Saenz" [NOT "Saez" of the G-2, D.T.I. matter], he comes up with some bullxxxx about "bayou Bluff??" During 1967, I gave Lou Ivon some insights as to Gordon Novel. This centered upon the fact operations by the "Lighters" [barges] tied up at the Naval Depot dock. This Dock was called "Fort LeBeouf". Just a 100+ yards down the Mississippi was Bayou Grande.
Novel was ordered to remove ["burglarize"] the remainder of that which remained onboard two barges tied up at the Fort Leboeuf dockside. He was then tasked to truck on down to the bunkers at the old "Blimp" base [NAF Houma (LTA)]. Up[on arrival, he was to put the entire load onto another barge, which was docked at nearby Morgan City, LA.
This is exactly how the m/v Santa Ana was loaded just days before the Bay of Pigs !! And moreover, Perry Russo didn't know xxxx about the deal, other than what the barge towboat skipper told him.
Ironically, the Tow boat crew were all from the Lebeouf clan, and their company name was lebeouf Towing, Inc. !! Their ancestors built Fort Lebeouf during the time of Jean Lafitte !!
"Tooshee" read some of that material, which Lou Ivon had later presented to Garrison, and now he stutteringly wants to insert himself into the posting, just as he always does !!
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(3) It is a fact that one of the problems for the police when they are investigating high profile murders is that a great deal of their time is taken up by people making “false” confessions. These people are suffering from an identifiable psychological problem. They have a strong need to be in the limelight. To be someone of importance, even if it means they have to confess to being a murderer. I suspect this psychological condition explains why some people provide false information on political conspiracies.
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John, "Eureka" -- you've just given a complete diagnosis of our "Tooshee" !!
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(4) Disinformation agents. Victor Marchetti has described this type of CIA operation as a “limited hangout”. To quote Marchetti: “A "limited hangout" is spy jargon for a favorite and frequently used gimmick of the clandestine professionals. When their veil of secrecy is shredded and they can no longer rely on a phony cover story to misinform the public, they resort to admitting - sometimes even volunteering some of the truth while still managing to withhold the key and damaging facts in the case. The public, however, is usually so intrigued by the new information that it never thinks to pursue the matter further.” All those who come forward with information must be considered as potential disinformation agents.
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[J] "Back-Stop Files" are the main component of "limited hang-outs"; and EVERY covert operation is backstopped with "Black-Tape Files", "Legends", and "Diversionary Schemes" !! But they are very RARELY necessary,because 99% of the Covert Ops pass as "ships-in-the-night".
Jack Stockwell and his Angola horsexxxx operation -- was ALL about nothing. And what the hell does he say now -- after he was one of those most responsible for the Cuban LCB troops turning Angola into an impoverished police state.
Because of his sniveling and whining, nasty-ass Zavimbi and the South Africans were called in and supported, all in vain. Take a "Fortnight" on down to Luanda, John !! Virgin or BAC +2 connections will get you to that "people's paradise" for less than $900 !!
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(5) How do they react when questioned? Some inside sources react in a very aggressive way when asked follow-up questions. This is because that the question implies that you have doubts about the truthfulness of previous answers. Sometimes they even start talking about suing your for libel. Those who are telling the truth are much more relaxed about this questioning process.
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[K] When some Weberman, Mellen type "interviewer" starts arguing with you about matters that you personally witnessed or were directly involved in -- It just seems to me that: The subject might just get a little pissed-off; especially at a less than subtle accusation that you are lying !!
Real professional, my man !! And here they come, with they phony agenda. But, when you refuse to reinforce their "Fantasies"; they get really aggressive !!
WHY the aggressive posturing ?? Because it means the difference between a positive publisher [and buck$] !! They always continue with their shifting rants -- trying to get you to agree with their horse-xxxx !!
NO THANKS, I've dealt with professional interrogators, and wannabe amateurs really SUCK !!
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Even so, they appear very convincing because they really believe they are telling the truth. I think some sources of information fall into this category
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[L] I highly doubt that "Tooshee" even believes 1% of his own crappola !!
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(7) The witness tells their story in a clear and uncomplicated way. This is very important as it allows you to check the story against other available evidence.
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[M] And just WHO is it that has ANY solid evidence of anything. I suggest that whomever, immediately get to a Notary Public and put said evidence in a sworn statement!!
Otherwise, one might well tend to believe that a certain somebody is scared xxxxless and lying through their teeth. I want then to risk some prison time !! Get it ALL under oath, or xxxx can it in the "round file" !!
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(8) The information they give is consistent over time. They do not change their story after evidence is provided that suggests they have made a mistake in an earlier version of events.
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[N] Jesus H. Christ, the very first week in Army C I. D. School, the civilian "shrink" experts come in and tell you that if somebody keeps repeating "word-for-word" the same crap !!
They have MEMORIZED IT, and are lying through their teeth. "Eyeball Witnesses" are said to be 99% worthless by the majority of criminal interrogators and prosecutors.
Why do you think Nosenko had so much trouble, that is: Before they finally "turned him" ??!!
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I have been asking Tosh Plumlee questions by email (and on this Forum) for a couple of years. He has always reacted like a man who is telling the truth. Therefore I consider him a reliable witness.
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[O] Please, Pray Tell, give me ONE specific clue as to what a truthful reaction "Sounds Like" ??!!
"Classi-Fried-Lied" files, give me a break. Have you ever interpreted that irrelevant "pdf"; or the phony "gas station' scribbled-up "Map??"!!
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Maybe it is just rougher than hell for many folks that are suddenly forced to admit that they have been "HAD" !! What an ego-buster !!
Chairs,
GPH
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Gerry, could you talk about Mr. Augustinovich, and the FBI's S.A. Robert J. Dwyer memo's circa 1962-63 (he wrote about anti-Castro goings on in the Miami area, those Dwyer memos seem to have wound up at the Dept. of Justice because 'Dame Edna' Hoover didn't want anyone to know about them, one of the memos is about an arrest of Interpen members with another individual named Leon Canossa Oswaldo.
It would be great if posting members would reduce the quoted material to that which is relevant to the response. Regarding Augustinovich, I couldn't discern from Gerry's response whether he is denying that Augustinivoch was arrested with him on Sombrero Key and therefore misidentified in the photo, but not with him on No Name Key, or if he meant to say that he had no association with Augustinovich whatsoever.
T.C.
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Just like the "Eddy Bayo" name screw-ups, and which remain today "uncorrected" on Spartacus, and continues within many other personal postings -- nothing ever changes. I can only guess that: Some folks either have difficulty with reading English, or that ego prevents them from admitting error, and thereafter opt to make corrections ??!!
That particular photo is all over the web, and specifically on Gordon Winslow's "Cuban-Exile.Com" website.
That photo had a very concise caption, and identified only those of us who had been arrest the night before at Sombrero Key, near Marathon.
The caption didn't include the names of law enforcement folks, nor jailers. Also absent from the caption were the names of those NOT arrested, amongst whom were Dick Whatley, Bobby Willis, et al. !!
The man in the right-hand corner is wearing a U.S. Marshal's badge on his left-hand shirt pocket, as the Marshal's had "primary custody" of us all, since is had been a federal arrest.
The Marshal's name is Kenneth McDole, and he was later a member of my Green Beret team [O.D.A. / C/3/20thSFRGrp(Abn)], and dropped out of his fiirst "Jump School" class at Fort Benning [1964], and due to a broken ankle -- leaving me alone to finish the parachute course.
Ken was then a full-time firefighter, and a "part-time" US Marshal in Miami. He was at the Noriega trial during 1990 while I was there. He remains a part-time U.S. Marshal today !!
Malcolm Blunt [Expert UK NARA researcher] threw his hands up in disgust upon learning that he had wasted hundreds of hours on this phony "Augustinovich Story"!! Moreover, for someone who researches at NARA about every two months, and is respected by Mellen as the foremost expert on these matters, I had expected that he would have taken me at my word as to the "limited few" vagabonds "paint-balling" at No Name !!
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If researchers will look closely at one of Tosh's recent posts, they will realize what type of person he is. From everything I have read in the past twenty years, I have yet to see anything so close, accurate and dangerously posted as what Tosh has done in the revelations of what was going down in Central America in the '80's.
Tosh did not wait 20+ years to begin blowing the whistle on the criminal activity of the US Government in Central America in and around Nicaragua, but instead went directly to Congress with his inside information. He risked his own being in attempting to expose this and now twenty plus years later, is devulging information on public forum that is locked away within the government.
Gerry (Mr. Patrick) Hemming is calling him a "snitch" among other obscene names because Tosh tried and is still trying to right the wrongs that he saw and was part of. I am confident from my exchanges with Tosh that he is well aware of far greater attrocities that were conducted by the US Intelligence Community and Military, and I am sure he has reported such in the now sealed documents in congress.
So why do we now even consider looking at him as a snitch? Isn't that why we are all here? Aren't we looking for those who are willing to come forward and tell us the truth of what our gov't has done so we can put this all into perspective. Mr. Patrick, if Tosh is a Snitch, then why in the hell are you here? Could it be because you are truely a disinformation agent trying to keep the truth from being brought out?
How about answering my questions if you are so knowlegable and want to help find the truths. Who is the anglo in the room at the Americana Hotel that I posted? Did you work with Major Lopez at all in the '60's?
IT GOY VERY BLOODY IN '81 AND JACK AND JILL DID NOT COME HOME...
Al
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Lt. Carrier:
My references to "Tooshee" as a snitch are backed up by my stack of U.S. Government files, which focus mainly on his repeated attempts at getting felonies off of his back by volunteering to snitch-out fellow miscreants !! [Not to mention some private correspondence from folks that think they have been had !!]
In most cases he was rejected, and this was because he had absolutely nothing to offer !! Not even something with which a grand jury [listening to hearsay] might swallow. And just like James Files [who Nancy says has "..always liked me..!!"] -- he claims to have been more "everywhere" than "Chickenman" sings in the commercial. I give him credit for not copping files claim [a-la Augustinovich] that he was with us on No Name Key. Talk about a "Forrest Gump"??!!
Everybody who was anybody [Miami 1960s] either has NEVER heard of him, or they still claim that they blew him off as a government [or other entity ?] snitch. NOT ONE N.A.R.A. file even mentions his name in a serious vein. You have Scott Armstrong's telephone number [NSArchive founder], give him a call and ask him about "Tooshee" !! And while you are at it, ask him about one Gerry Patrick Hemming, the same guy that worked with him and Bob Fink on the "Letelier Assassination Case" during 1977.
As for so-called "classified files" secreted away somewhere in D.C. ? Congress maybe ? That is total horsexxxx, and he knows it. The guy is a pathetic waistrel, and like Files, has spent too much time reading books. He even repeats the (since corrected) errors made in first editions of those books. He reads Sheehan's "fantasy-land" affidavit ?? -- and then adopts it as his own. Not that many years ago, he tried to con Dick Clark's production people into swallowing his tabloid tales.
I worked the "Mother Ship" operations from 1976 thru 1978, and gladly returned to the air interdiction ops during 1978 thru 1982. I flew out of various airstrips in Panama, but only refueled in Puerto Limon, Costa Rica twice. I haven't a clue as to said "Anglo", as the only folks I dealt with in Puerto Limon, were Roger Redondo, and other ex-S.F.N.E. guys. at that time they were importing (6 cylinder only) automobiles from Miami. They bought impounds, and auction block vehicles, and then shipped them down to C.R. !!
Which "Major Lopez" are we talking about. This name is as common as Smith & Jones in Latin America. Was he a "Comandante" Lopez?, or a U.S. Armed Forces Lopez? -- or even a "Mayor" Lopez?
Have you even looked at that "gas station" map, with all of the illiterate scribbling on it. Where are his "W.A.C. Sectionals", the "USAF Topographicals", or at least the "1:25,000 Mil. Maps"?? I've still got mine from when I set up the labs in "Tranquilandia" [Putamayo, Amazonas, Colombia]. And just when did he give all of these "secret' insider tips to the authorities, Wow, like years after the xxxx had long gone public.
My brother, who worked the "Death Squads" in Guatemala, El Salvador, etc. was curious as to how you couldn't have known that Mario Sandoval Alarcon was a serial mass murderer, when any whore on the streets of "Guat-City" could have gushed out plenty of C.V. on that killer ??!! When I told Mario about the movie "Wild Bunch" -- and that his old buddy, Emilio "El Indio" Hernandez was a star in it -- he almost choked while laughing through his "Trache-Hole"
He asked what part did his buddy play, and I told him that we had nicknamed him [sandoval] after that character, "General Mapache" (which means Racoon)!! He almost fell out of his throne. We had to get him a copy of the flick, but when we got back two weeks later, he had already ordered the theaters all over town to immediately schedule the flick. A couple of years later, "El Indio" blew a Mexican extra's head off on a movie set, and quickly fled to Guat-City, where Mario hid him out. He surendered a year later, and died in prison.
I am at a loss with grasping this comical "Jack & Jill" bit, as I didn't ever find any humor with what we encountered in Central America during 1971 thru 1982, NOT at all !! I was quite happy to spend my flying hours mostly in the eastern Caribbean by that time, but duties forced me back into that muck & mire all too frequently.
Why am I here, and why did I start as early as December 1963 looking into the JFK matter ?? When it became obvious that seemingly honest people, including those closely related to the Kennedy family, wanted everone to back off -- that is what we did !! That is: Until Garrison started his "Cover Marcello's Ass Scheme" by pointing the finger at US !!
99% of the names disclosed, and later cited by Danny Brandt in "Namebase.org" came from books whose authors got them from me. While 99% of the names cited in the Warren Comm. Report, HSCA, etc. originated as disinformation from "Dame" Hoover. I testified before the "Church Committee", the HSCA, etc. -- where is "Tooshee's" name in any of those files, hell even wing-nut whackos testi-lied before the A.R.R.B.; where the hell is "Tooshee's" script ??!!. Classified my ass.
Weberman twisted around everything that he got from me and my brother [nobody else, including Sturgis would give him xxxx]. So what does he do, inserts phrases totally out of context, and spices it all up with "Over-Profanity" to make it appear more credible.
I have yet to see anything on this Forum to date, that is first hand, or comes from a well researched "active" source. Just a whole lot of book-reader speculations, and arguments about some of the silliest crap imaginable. I have no compunctions about revealing "covert" operations, and especially with regard to those which should have been surfaced years ago. The very fact that they have remained classified this long; just further encourages all of the fantasy-land/wet-dreaming by people with too much time on their hands -- or are driven by some weird political agenda.
NOBODY is going to get famous scribbling on this forum, so give it up -- and let's get real about some of the serious matters under discussion. Then, maybe some of the "never-were-there" characters will fade into the sunset ??!!
I had expected that, with your background, you might have discerned who is who by now, that is: Unless you are cultivating somebody for some other purpose. If somebody is mentally unstable, and you are concerned as to his reactions to a dose of reality -- let me know by private e-mail, and I will back off !!
Chairs,
GPH
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Mr. Patrick,
First of all, I met Tosh in Puerto Limon in '81 and he is no wanna-be. I can assure you that. My correspondence with him in private and on open forum has convinced me that he is well aware of operations that are and will most likely be forever classified. He was aware of locals and timelines of very nast ops that only persons on the inside would know.
As far as my knowlege of Mario Sandoval Alarcon, I know firsthand of what OUR government paid him to do and am ashamed to admit that I laid cover for his ops in the central highland villages where I saw from my scope what he and his murdurous squads were about. You should understand that from my posts if you would take the time to read them.
Ask your brother if he was familiar with Angel who was associated with Joe F and Hull's outpost. Have him take a good look at my photo.
Also ask your brother about the EOD team that was eliminated before they left country because their was concern as to their ability to remain silent. JACK AND JILL...
The Major Lopez I am referring to is Humberto "Bobby" Leon. Apparently you were not connected with him. I have had his files and have conversed with his family. He is of great interest to me dating back to November of '63.
Al
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I too met a whole bunch of people in strange-and-far-away-places. Nasty Ops ?? Who the hell do you think pushed for the exposure/elimination of the Guatemalen Army troops that slaughtered whole Mayan tribes all over the Peten Plateau -- and I started even before I left the Cuban Rebel Army and Air Force.
I started in Guatemala during March 1954 [with missionaries], and was just back from Indo-China -- then on to USMC boot camp for a rest !! I did the Guat/Salv/Nic/Hond-Ops against these serial mass murderers until 1982.
Ask me sometime about aborting the massacre of the entire Costa Rican Legislature and then Prez "Pepe" Figueres [1972 - Ops Cactus, Bambu, Coyote]
Check out Weberman's bullxxxx version of my confrontation with the Army Colonel [Attache] and his cohorts, during the Rorke/Sullivan search & rescue [Oct. 1963]. I told them to their faces [at their outside/Embassy covert offices] that I was going to once again -- make damn sure that the SF troopers would be rotated back to CONUS -- and never again have to witness nor assist in those massacres !!
We got the JM/WAVE SF [Army Reserve] ODAs disbanded, and transferred to the Florida Guard. A couple later went P.T.S.D. on us, and had to resign; and that was many years after personally experiencing the Guat-Massacre xxxx !!
I've got guys from my ODA that were at El Mozote, Las Aradas, etc. [El Salvador], and witnessed the famous "Atlacatl Battalion" do its 400+ massacre of boys, girls, and children !!
My brother rode with the "special" shooters, attempting to nail the assassins who had murdered the U.S. Ambassador [AmEmbGuat.] along with the Colonel who was the chief military attache. "Tooshee types" were a dime-a-dozen, and they ain't got nothing to feel guilty about, cause they never did xxxx. You want an extra copy of "Tooshee's" REAL U.S. FILES ??
I've got a family member just home from Baghdad, who did a year at the Guat-City Embassy a few years back -- and he can't stop laughing at all of this horse-xxxx !!
And exactly where is your explanation for that "pdf" and the xxxxty map, much less the San Diego bullxxxx tabloid trash ?? Or is he already brain-dead, and you are covering for him. Check out the South African SF website to see how they spot wannabes, and you will see the exact duplicate of 'Tooshee's" Bio !!
It gets real tiresome that the bullxxxx line never wavers, and WHY? He's got it memorized !!
Happy Holidays !!
GPH
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John Martino/Wm. Pawley/Plumlee; ref CIA 124 Files
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
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NO SUCH "STATEMENT IS EVER ATTACHED TO A MILITARY SERVICE RECORD. MY SERVICE RECORDS WERE CLASSIFIED UNTIL SOME WERE RELEASED TO THE U.S. DEPT. OF STATE [1967] WHEN I APPLIED FOR USAID/ PUBLIC SAFETY - VIETNAM.
After that they were re-classified, and not released in dribs and drabs from when I filed my first FOIA during August, 1975. I have since been instructed that a large portion of my files at CIA are only available to me if I travel to Langley, and under escort, peruse them in a closed room -- NO notes to be taken, and the escort must remain outside of the room !!
As a partial retaliation for filing the FOIA, I was indicted twice the following year [1976], and the first files to be handed to the press were those involving drug interdiction. It was an obvious attempt to have the drug cartels seek revenge against me.
You have some kind of SICKO AFFAIR going with "Tooshy" ?? This is a forum where it is expected that credible sources will provide credible insights, IF POSSIBLE, AND IF CONVENIENT !! What do you think the serious members on this Forum think when "Capricorn One - UFO wierdos", comic book hacks claiming MK/ULTRA or Alien kidnapping are onboard wasting all of our time. This CT community has a severely low reputation already !! EXACTLY "WHAT" IS IT THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO BE POSTED ON THIS FORUM ??
IS IT EGO, THAT YOU'VE BEEN SCAMMED, OR SOMETHING ELSE MAYBE ??!!
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