Mark Stapleton

John, Welcome to the Forum. We've almost got every state in Australia covered now. That list interests me also, although just the names of those comprising their leadership (in addition to Johnson) would be interesting. I didn't think there would be so many on the DCC, it's more like a Forum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Lee, Excellent post. What a lovely little nest of hatred filled vipers they were.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Lee, Excellent post. What a lovely little nest of hatred filled vipers they were.

Hidden meanings in Elvis lyrics, the Purple Gang and Tim Gratz defending Meyer Lansky. This thread's freaking me out. p.s. I didn't realise that Meyer had Republican Party connections--thanks for the heads-up Tim.

David, As you're probably aware, Tim is the Forum's resident Republican Party glovepuppet. Mention the Mafia, Castro or any evil lefties as suspects and he's all ears but mention a Republican Party figure and he yells and screams like a 3 year old. It's amazing to watch. As for your post, it does look like Governor Rhodes was working for someone other than his constituents. While I don't believe the Italian mafia had the necessary influence to be behind the assassination, I do believe one mafia figure may have been implicated--Jewish kingpin Meyer Lansky. According to Lucky Luciano's autobiography, Lansky's influence grew steadily after Luciano's departure and by the fifties Lansky was omnipotent.

Very witty. Very, very witty. I'll need time, about a month I reckon. Do you know Mark King's email address? Luckily, my piece won't have much to beat. So far, it's been all wild speculation.

Ron, Great work. Suddenly it's looking like Taylor might not have been in Washington. Up to now, I had never considered McNamara could be implicated but maybe he was in the loop also. Wonder what Jim Root thinks of this? I might be reading too much into it, but is there a touch of symbolism in LBJ specifically asking the Secretary of State and his Undersecretary to accompany him up to the White House? There's a passage in Manchester in which someone asks McGeorge Bundy about the State Department, to which Bundy curtly replies "State is making its own arrangements". I always thought Manchester slipped there, telling readers a little more than they were meant to know. BTW, is there any way of determining who LeMay visited in Michigan? Relatives maybe, but the man who pulled Gerald Ford's strings lived in Michigan--Detroit billionaire Max Fisher. I believe he's still there, now about 95 yo.

In addition to restriction on civil liberties and the overt political paranoia of Communist Governments, the thing that most appalls people like Tim is their "godlessness". I believe Tim will confirm this. John, don't hold your breath waiting for Tim to defend his latest indefensible comment--'"all Communists are liars"--even a good debater would find it almost impossible. Also, there's others in the queue ahead of you. I'm still waiting for Tim to advise me of the parts of Sorenson's bio of JFK which so emphatically exonerate Douglas Dillon from involvement or foreknowledge. "Dillon would have laid down his life for his friend (JFK)", Tim said. Surely you jest, Tim.

David, Since my original post, I have been directed to THIS WEBSITE, where I found some additional info regarding Oswald's reentry from Russia. The info on this website is taken from the Warren Commission Report. Part of the loan info is quoted below: " After his reentry, Oswald repaid his loan without having to be reminded by the Department to do so. The early payments were very small because he first repaid the approximately $200 he had borrowed from his brother Robert to apply against the expenses of his travel from New York to Fort Worth, Tex. The schedule of payments is as follows: Aug 13, 1962 10.00 Sep. 5 1962 9.71 Oct. 10 1062 10.00 Nov. 19 1962 10.00 Dec. 11 1962 190.00 Jan. 8 1062 100.00 Jan 28 1962 106.00 Total: 435.71" Note the amount of the last 3 payments. I am assuming that the last payment was made in January of 1963, rather than 1962, and that this is a typo. I am going to do some more digging. It will be interesting to find out where he was working during the three months that these large payments were supposedly made. My husband and I were newly married and living on one minimum wage income (his) during 1963. Payments of this size would have been next to impossible for us at that time. This may be a trivial point, but it interests me, as I have always believed that Oswald was connected in some way to either the FBI or the CIA. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Carol, I agree with David G--nice researching.

First, JFK was supposed to stay at the LBJ ranch. Second, Thanksgiving was still a week away. To which I would add, why would they take up JFK's "holiday" weekend with the budget instead of the urgently held Honolulu Conference that McNamara and Taylor had just returned from on the fate of South Vietnam? Did McNamara come up with this scenario, along with the bit about Taylor going with him to Andrews, as a way of emphasizing Taylor's presence? A lot of cover stories don't stand up to much scrutiny, and this may be one of them. Ron <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ron, I like your line of thinking here. We may have to realise that commonly accepted facts concerning such things as persons' whereabouts might require another look. I always regarded Manchester as a chronological bible but if Taylor was in Dallas, then it's wrong. Ditto McNamara's book. He may have been "advised" to skate around the critical points in time and come up with a different but plausible story. Widespread poetic license?

This stinks. A Marine with U-2 radar codes and Atsugi Air Base classification decided to go to Soviet Russia. He goes over, spends two years in the heart of Minsk industrial center, then COUNTER - DEFECTS back to the United States. He is never debriefed and never watched as a possible Soviet spy? This reeks of a counter intelligence program. Lee Harvey Oswald was a noisy self proclaimed Communist, but when he supposedly kills the President of the United States, he denies it until he dies. A communist radical militant would have claimed the "glory" .... An effective US security force would have monitored him and prevented him being at an open window over a Presidential motorcade. I believe Oswald was a Marine Intelligence / ONI asset, who was manipulated to go to Russia, controlled after he came back and used as a handy "burncard" when a patsy with COmmunist credentials was needed by the agencies. He was served up to public consumption with the backyard photos and the crime was "solved" Then he was murdered and thus became a "lost" assassin, in the jargon of the 1953 CIA assassination manual. Poor bastard, I feel sorry for him, his wife Marina and his girlfriend Judyth. He probably thought he was serving his country............. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Shanet, I agree. LHO was fried without a moments hesitation, while thinking he was doing an important job. His family problems were not incriminating, they were irrelevent. Murdered, then thrown into the annals of history as an evil assassin. Shameful.

Tim, I believe you're wrong and you're wrong. No matter how you dress it up, you believe Communists are evil, hence must be behind the assassination. I believe other researchers, having discovered this, give your opinions a lower value. I give them none. It's an unsolved crime ("the" crime) that's being researched here--you have to be objective or you can't get anywhere. I'm no advocate of Communism, the number of benevolent Communist Governments have been vastly outnumbered by repressive, tyrannical ones. However, when you look at the evidence pertaining to this unsolved crime you discover that it doesn't make any sense for the Soviets or Cuba to kill JFK. Are you doubting that the Communists learned why the BOP failed? Or that they knew JFK was unpopular with the CIA? JFK's shaking up the very sectors of the US elite whom Communists despise, so the Communists then devise an audacious plot to kill JFK? That doesn't even half make sense. You should be debating the evils or otherwise of Communism in a political forum, not this one. This crime will never be solved by forcing political parameters onto its solution.

I agree with Bernice. To think that the SS failure in Dallas was just a few errors in the heat of the moment is to badly misinterpret the evidence. These agents were highly trained in protection and the agents under suspicion (Greer, Roberts and Boring) were experienced agents, not beginners. On the question of Lansdale or Taylor, it looks scarily like Taylor. The only problem is that it would mean Manchester was wrong. Was he fed incorrect data by someone or was he right?

Stewart, Thanks for the help re Levy. Welcome to the forum, btw--your knowledge of the case is certainly more extensive than mine. I like Levy, if what King says is accurate, because of his personal circumstances more than anything else. His age, occupation, physical description, wife's alleged comments about his habits and behavior, period of incarceration prior to the killings and eventual death from syphillis seem like a perfect fit. The only problem is lack of additional information. It's been 117 years, so I guess there's no hurry.

John, Interesting stuff on the Chappaquiddick thread. Assuming it's accurate, there's always a chance Ted will tell all. He might find an inventive way of revealing it. Hope I live long enough.

Somebody else ruled it out for him: the American public. Teddy's one of the longest serving Senators in U.S. history. He's not gonna drop his drawers and kiss up to the Bible belt. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Pat, Yes, I knew it would be a longshot, but I thought I'd just throw it in . I read in The Economist that he's been a longtime critic of the pharmaceutical industry, which indicates that he doesn't fear speaking out against power groups. I like that, although alienating powerful political lobby groups will never get you into the White House. I hope the Democrats find someone more impressive than the last lot of nominees.

Has Ted Kennedy ruled out ever running for President?

Greg, Great article. I read that the US Military is now offering a 40K sign on fee. It's desperation time. You can't let them do this of course and the blame lies squarely with the US Govt. It seems like there's no civilian government in the US, it's more like a Pentagon/White House Government with the Pentagon the senior partner. Been that way since about 1963. Iraq will bleed Washington dry. The US is already heavily in debt. Then there's oil. The US consumes 18 million barrels a day, while Japan is second, consuming about 4.8 million barrels. China and India are increasing their consumption rapidly, causing the price to rise with no realistic limit, since it's a rapidly dwindling non renewable resource. The economies of all countries are, to differing extents, built on oil. The US economy is by far the most exposed to oil price shocks. China, Japan, South Korea and India all have strong economies but are less exposed to oil price rises because of their much lower consumption. The EU also threatens the US economy. The only two alternatives which will prevent a US economic collapse are to rapidly find a way to decrease oil consumption or to move into the Middle East and secure oil for the next fifty years. All this and George Bush till 2008.

Mark Hi, I will email Stewart, & Chris,and ask them to pass on any relavant info to you.Stewart has the most extensive collection of Ripper memorobilia in the world, we live about 10 miles apart, and he has invited me to use his files for research( Read it and weep.)Your right about JFK threads, im currently "debating"with Mr Gratz myself. Regards, Steve. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Steve, When you're through, send the files over here would you?.

Tim, This is fundamentalist stuff. You see the mafia and the communists as evil, therefore they must have killed JFK. You've brainwashed yourself into believing this.

Steve, It's been a while. I've been involved in heated debates over on the JFK threads (it's a bear pit over there). Anyway, I've been attempting to gather info on Jacob Levy but there's precious little info online (maybe I'm looking in the wrong places). I'm wondering if anyone would know where I could find any additional info. Also, what do Stewart and Christopher think of Levy as JTR ?

Hi Mark- You're right in that there's certainly no smoking gun just waiting to be declassified. Still, who knows what possibilities we might be able to explore. Or eliminate. Declassification of the remaining documents certainly wouldn't answer all the questions or definitively solve the case. I guess it's more the principle of the thing: I feel entitled to to view those documents. You hit upon a key point: If it could be shown that the classification was activated in the context of a threat to national security that no longer exists, then such an excuse for keeping the docs secret becomes unavailable. But I guess it comes down to who exactly would be making that determination. What national security issues could still be relevant in 2005? Most of those involved are probably dead. The Cold War is over. The Soviet Union no longer exists. Communism, as a threat to capitalism, is very much dead. The only national security issue is that the truth would implicate elements of our federal government resulting in a Constitutional crisis, the implications of which would be staggering. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Greg, Agree. The current threats to U.S. National Security are different to those in 1963. It's no surprise that the Government whitewashed the assassination. Besides protecting the real assassins, it ensured there would be no widespread public examination of its' security agencies. At the height of a cold war, this would have been very unwise.

I should add that, like John, I believe that any documents released through declassification would not necessarily lead us to the conspirators. There's been so much time for incriminating documentation to be removed or falsified.

Hi Tim- That's a great question. Generating a list of all such still classified documents, just as you suggest, and perhaps organizing them in a database such as MC Access, would be the first step. Determining who within the government has the authority to release such documents is step two. Step three: We get as many people as we can to write to their Congressman, write to their Senator, and write to this as yet undetermined person of authority with the list attached and demand that these docs be released. I know this probably sounds naive and idealistic, but I think it's worth the effort. Although I have no idea how to begin generating such a list. Any suggestions there? The list would be the difficult part. Once it's compiled, we can use it to generate support and get people to write. Maybe if enough people regularly bombard their elected officials with such a request, perhaps over time someone in a position of authority will address the situation. At the end of the day, those records belong to the People. They're ours. We own them. We pay for them to be kept locked away. OK, I know that's incredibly naive, but it just ticks me right off. The U.S. government keeps re-opening these civil rights cases from the 60's, U.S. v. Cecil Price et al. ("Mississippi Burning" Trial) being the most recent. While I think that's a great thing, it angers me that the Kennedy murders and MLK's killing are still being ignored. So, how would one go about compiling such a list? Any ideas? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Greg, I sympathise with your frustration. Regarding your suggestion, this is probably naive but couldn't you write to the Justice Department for example, and request such a list. Regarding step 2, the situation in Australia is the declassification would be announced by the Attorney General (after recieving Cabinet approval, of course). So basically it's the Government of the day who decides what to declassify. The real key, IMO, is to strenghen the provisions of the AARB to overide the National Security provisions in certain circumstances, this being the stumbling block for declassification. Tim would probably know better than me, but this would require an application to the Court, in the absence of a willing Government. If it could be shown that the classification was activated in the context of a National Security environment which is now defunct (which is true), then, barring Government interference, the case could be won, IMO.

Tim, It would be understandable that LBJ was nervous. Remember, those hearings were going on in Washington re Billy Sol Estes et al which had the potential to put LBJ behind bars. He was gambling all or nothing so he was entitled to be nervous--I'm sure those reports of him cowering alone were correct. Basically, his life was on the line--but not from a bullet.