Mark Knight

Mr. Walton, you are intentionally misquoting me. I have NEVER SAID that Prayer Man is without question LHO. You just proved my point about faulty logic. "IF I disagree with you, THEN I believe Prayer Man is LHO" is a blatant example of faulty logic. Thanks for your example of faulty logic. I would be hard pressed to come up with a better example so quickly.

There is an abundance of faulty "if/then" logic posted from time to time on this forum. Examples: If Oswald shot at General Walker, then he's guilty of the Kennedy assassination. If Oswald shot JFK, then he's also guilty of killing Tippit's. If Oswald shot Tippit's, than he's guilty of the JFK murder. There is PLENTY of sound logic in some "if/then" statements. If security at the DPD had been adequate, Oswald wouldn't have been murdered in the basement. Faulty logic also includes: If you don't buy the Warren Commission conclusions, then you're a ___________ (fill in the blank) -did-it conspiracy theorist. Few people here actually go to the lengths that James Gordon did in investigating Connally's wounds. "Tangential strike" on the rib; who else here has gone so far as to attempt to model exactly what that meant, using 3d human torso software? We all too often fall for faulty logic because we don't take the time to research on more than just a surface level. When someone DOES take the time and make the effort, often we fail to consider their work because we seem to be "married" to our own pet theories. Unlike the Warren Commission, how many of us honestly start with the evidence, rather than starting with a conclusion and working backwards? Just something to think about.

I, too, believe that Oswald's journey to Moscow is under-investigated. England is a prime example. I think that Jim Root may be on the right track. Who was Oswald in contact with between Southampton and Helsinki? He certainly wasn't a man in a bubble who wasn't seen or heard as Scotty teleported him from one location to the other. But unlike the Mexico City bus trip that was -- or wasn't -- there are ZERO witnesses, to my knowledge, of Ozzie's trip from London to Helsinki, or to the time he spent -- or didn't spend -- in London. Fifty-plus years on, finding witnesses will be nigh impossible. But surely there might be some more existing records than what we've seen so far. Or not.

When DVP's rebuttal begins by quoting DVP himself, it's obvious that the argument is more about what DVP thinks and less about any evidence. That's my cue to tune him out.

The results do not CONCLUSIVELY make Prayer Man Lee Harvey Oswald. But they certainly make the possibility of Prayer Man being Oswald a lot more likely. I like your work, Andrej.

Mr. Hagger: As I explained before, this is a JFK assassination discussion forum. So references to General Edwin Anderson Walker found here generally relate to how General Walker might be connected to the JFK assassination. This NOT a generic General Edwin Anderson Walker discussion forum. As much as Mr. Trejo and I have clashed over the years, in this case I must defend Mr. Trejo. He is attempting via his theory to connect General Walker to the JFK assassination. You have NOT attempted to either connect or to disprove a connection between Walker and the JFK assassination. So I'm sorry if you feel disdain for what is being discussed on this thread, but you appear to be attempting to order filet mignon from an ice cream shop...and are angry that you're not getting that steak. So that is why you see so little sympathy for your point of view. It's as if you're angry at not finding stock prices in the sports section of the paper, or not being able to see a cartoon on an all-news station.

Before we jump too heavily on the Teamsters/no driver's license issue, I want to point out that locally, the Teamsters Union represents the workers at the area Kroger grocery warehouse. Not only the truck drivers, but the laborers on the warehouse floor as well. So it's not unreasonable to be a member of the Teamsters Union and not have a driver's license. You don't need a driver's license to operate a forklift.

Mr. Hagger, I would hope that, when you came here, you realized that a JFK assassination discussion forum's primary purpose is to discuss the assassination of JFK. If that bores you, then I would ask why you came here in the first place. I mean, one does not go to the Republican National Convention to discuss landscaping, even if the periphery of the convention site is nicely landscaped. In this forum I will concede that General Edwin Anderson Walker has probably not been researchers deeply as you have already done. But since the forum IS about the JFK assassination, I would say you have no reason to scoff at the 600+ pages of posts here as worthless. If you feel you should leave, I would not encourage you to stay, nor would I encourage you to hasten your departure. But I would liken your experience here to making a trip to a seafood restaurant and expecting them to be experts on steak rather than sea bass.

Qui habeus corpus? Who has the body? Where is the box? We know that comedian Vaughn Meador's career ended on November 22, 1963. So did the career of the false Oswald? So he was never seen again...

So where is Lee today? Simple question. And where had he been since 1963?

I guess I'm agnostic on the Harvey and Lee topic. While I don't doubt there was at least one imposter sighted during 1963, I have trouble with the idea of a CIA project that predates the CIA. So I suppose the question that should be answered is: If it was Harvey who was gunned down by Ruby... ...where is Lee in the past 55 years?

Karl, I think your interpretation makes a lot of sense. Even if it was a Freudian slip on their part. The entire BOP operation was meant, IMHO, to draw the US military into a war over Cuba. In that respect, it WAS a calculated PLOT to force Kennedy into a war he didn't want. [Had Nixon won the election, it was a war he encouraged.] NOT allowing the military to attack Cuba in defense of the planned-to-fail BOP raid was, in the minds of the pro-war factions, a BLOT on JFK's record just weeks into the new administration. So in some ways, "plot" is much more accurate than "blot." So the transcript may be incorrect, as you pointed out.

Sandy, this shows us that the CIA was involved with setting up the Oswald "legend" prior to, and definitely after, the assassination. The 201 file shows that Oswald was in some way connected to the CIA. But as far as CIA fingerprints on the assassination itself...it's as if the murder weapon was "wiped clean" of those prints. Guilt-by-association isn't exactly enough to convict, IMHO.

Understanding the amount of control the CIA did or did not exert over the groups affiliated with them would go a long way towards determining the truth. Releasing the related documents might provide insight and clarity. Do I think the CIA was involved in the assassination? I would say today that we still lack the evidence to say that. Do I think that persons or groups connected to the CIA may have been involved in the assassination? I would say that the odds are good that this is true. Do I expect that there is a "smoking gun" hidden in the CIA files? I would say there is a better than 95% chance there is NOT. But do I think that the CIA knows the truth about the assassination ? Yes.

So Oswald allegedly left his jacket at the TSBD (to be found weeks later)... ...went back to his rooming house and allegedly changed clothes... ...allegedly dropped another jacket behind the Texaco station... ...and, after allegedly changing clothes at the rooming house, is arrested wearing the same shirt he allegedly wore on the bus and in the taxi, BEFORE he allegedly changed clothes. Is there anything wrong about this narrative?

I believe I'm done with this thread.

Perhaps the house on Harlandale was simply a "station" on the Cuban version of the Underground Railroad....

Once more, since you apparently missed my point.

I believe I'm done with this thread. No new information is being brought to light. We can speculate until Doomsday, and that won't make any of it the truth.

I believe the Darnell film shows a person commonly referred to as"Prayer Man" in what I will dub the "Amen Corner." I believe that person is not visible in Altgens or Zapruder. I believe I will refrain from speculation about what happened immediately before or immediately after what is recorded on film. I believe I will refrain from speculating on what was said by those photographed immediately prior to, during, or after their capture on film.

Larry, I bought SWHT in 2010, and found it fascinating. The information you uncovered in your research changed a lot of my previous opinions and conclusions. I continue to find your comments enlightening, and hope that you continue to contribute here for years to come.

Absent a record... ...we're left with... SPECULATION. S-P-E-C-U-L-A-T-I-O-N. Now. Take those letters, in that order, and write the word "FACT." In case you didn't notice, it's an impossible task. And yet...you persist.

So we SEE THEM carrying on this conversation? We KNOW verbatim what was said? Gee, Mr. Graves; it seems you've been holding out on us.

To elaborate... David Von Pein and I aren't that far apart, when it comes to the evidence. Where we differ is to the weight given to certain evidence, and to our conclusions about what the evidence tells us. Damn the speculation. Give me evidence, and let me decide whether I believe it to be important or unimportant.

I'm pretty sure The Education Forum was never structured as a democracy, where membership is concerned. So don't look for that to start today. Or tomorrow. Or next week. And Mr. Graves, I congratulate you on your Trejo-esque move to turn this into yet another thread on Prayer Man/Woman. Your "speculate for me so I can tell you how stupid your speculation is, compared to my own speculation" form of questioning other members is so condescending that I'm beginning to wonder if you and Mr. Trejo are in cahoots.