John Dolva

It does make sense that the metal head support was removed prior to taking x-rays and replaced with a block. Obviously, the metal cradle would show on the x-rays while something with less density would not. Good thinking, obvious now that you mention it. It's good to have confirmation that the woodblock prop may have been used for the BE7 photo. Still, there seems to be sufficient matches to make it perhaps not critical, however the apparent socket on the photo, Robin seems to me to be a blemish of some sort. It's not centered on the tube and appears to be way off actually, Possibly a fingerprint or some such smudge?

Thank's Robin. I noticed this. I suspect it's there but hidden and the perspective makes it hard to see depth. I'll look again more carefully though. _________________________ The fragment in question is located according to where it happened to fold back when the xrays were taken. This means that it is not in the place wher it was premortem. However it seems easy to orient according to sutures and outlines. At the location of the half hole mentioned, on the xray there is a bevelled half hole as well. For this bevelling to appear on the photo as being on the inside, as far as I understand, indicates an entry. xray on left photo right. The shape of the half hole is very similar with the suture immediately posterior of it. (The bright spot on the photo within the bevelling should not automatically be assumed to be something xray opaque. It may be a droplet reflecting light or some other light coloured feature.)

Mark, that's interesting. I go about these things trying as much as possible not to refer to other peoples conclusions. In this way I try to avoid pre judice. In this instance I took the WC and HSCA pictures and thought I'd see if I could make sense of them as presented. The idea here came out of a post by Lee (yet again proof of value of a speculative mind relatively free of bonds) where he was suggesting a feature on the table as being in the photo. I disagreed but was inspired to look for other ways. So this and the original material brings me in line with Fetzer, no problems there (I beg to differ on zfilm alterations and other things I've read about on this forum, but thats another story). _________________________ A separate thing about the autopsy material is the bone fragments. The side flap seems to me to be easy to locate. When placing the flap, as in the rear head photo, in an inverted bowl (3D) and turning it around one gets a fragment of size and ortientation that very well matches suture and other features clearly visible in the pre-mortem xray. It looks to me like this fragment has a bullet sized and shaped hole on the margin with a crack radiating from it. The thing of interest is that the bevelling around this half hole appears to be ON THE INSIDE.

Well, not overly anxious Tim, I hope. Anticipation perhaps. It's here hopefully for discussion. This seems to be a head position on the table that makes this suggestion possible. (the stirrup swiveled and left in place as locator.) Perhaps after the rear photos the body was laid back on the table without the stirrup and placed roughly in this location and the wound exposed and photo taken. (this is for illustration only, not a PRECISE orientation) * Those who are particularly observant may see that in this illustration the visible skin has been stretched BACK over the wound. (Various features are found to match up.)

Robim, there are a couple of other photographers perhaps of interest here, I think it's Volkman and McIver? EDIT:: The lower photo (Volkman?) makes more sense of the report of a carbomb waiting in case the shooting hadn't done the job, there are lots of cars along the road here, people too, the guy standing on the truck can actually see over the rails. It's be nice to have good res. Volkman, I'd like to have a peek at Harry's office window. (in line with Bowers tower)

I'm hoping someone who has spent a lot of time looking at the photo's can comment on this suggestion. There are other matters to go on to , but this is perhaps a fundamental benchmark. As the suggestion is that the head is no longer in the stirrup for BE7 it is somewhere that is only approximated by the standard 'back on table' view.

Frank: ...angles troublesome. Frank. Yeah, it gets hard to visualise. I've got the luxury of seeing it in realtime and can turn the model as I wish. To snapshot and then placing it so it can be understood in 2D then is not that easy. Many of the images have to be shifted off from where they should be in order to reveal the match. Howevewer, it's the idea that is ultimayely important. I can see indications of shots but need to study it more to say anything about it. It helps to get a wider sense of where things were and not be limited by the bounds of the individual photographs. In this is a suggestion of combining 4 photos from the rear of the body/head. The stirrup is obviously swivelable and most likely removable. I suggest the wound BW photo BE7 was taken towards the end of the autopsy. The head is no longer in the stirrup which has been removed and the collar is visible in the photo. Opposite it, is what looks like a portion of the ear. When the collar is resized to match the size in the other photo where it appears clearly, then the BE7 photo scaling makes sense. Lining up the collar and ear gives the suggested photographer position.

A thought: From memory: The late 70's was a time when western 'civilisation' was contracting. From memory, Lennon and Yoko (I don't think one can talk about Lennon without talking about Yoko) had issued their second letter. Part of Lennons quiet period had been occupied with primal therapy, where he made sense of the altered perception and insights he had gotten from his life with acid. He returned to Yoko with a clear direction. He had realised that the truly revolutionary act involved a change of consciousness. Change of consciousness happens with maximum awareness in an atmosphere of silence, where the noise of the exterior subsides so that the chaos and pain inside can be recognised. This I believe can be seen as a far more revolutionary offering than his previous strident rebellion. He had become far more subtle and I think therefore more dangerous to the status quo. Ultimately a self aware educated populace realising the simple act of unity, 'No' and maintenance of principle is outside the control of the thought police state. Like others before him, like Ram Das for example, he had realised that the acid induced perception is attainable through self awareness and does not in any way depend on any mind altering drugs. He had gone beyond the world of MK/ULTRA. He was outside of the traditional means of control that the 'establishment' uses to distract and discourage a discontented populace, and he had an answer for others who sought this path.

With the apxray and photo, orientated in this way and wrapped on to a 3d model of Kennedys head, a number of features match.

James, does a coded message with an uncoded name from a future 'assassin' make sense?

The suggestion here is that for autopsy photo BE7 Kennedy's head is not in the stainless steel cradle. The cradleit has been removed. The collared hole it fitted into matches the image on the photo. This gives the suggested location of the photographer and orientation in relation to the xrays: EDIT:: perspective correction and 'neg' reversal.The Dark area on the photo is NOT the dark area on the xrays (in part anyway), the visible bone formations and the external to wound indicators like ear and metal collar is used.Larger sample displayed.

Jim, I push the, (to my mind neglected), Civil Rights angle as it leads to a wealth of material that overlaps into the persons of interest. The Ole' Miss Uni. files and the recently available Mississippi Sovereignty Commission Files* are also a source worth persuing. I came across a letter written by a student in Oxford October '62 that made me aware of another kind of source that may be fruitful: anecdotes. In this letter a young woman writes to a sibling describing the crisis from inside the Lyceum where Walker is supposed to be directing the insurrection. Bear in mind that this is October '62 and Walker is said to hold the view that attention should be on Cuba and this is just when the Bay of Pigs is current. Yet, for him, fighting an armed struggle in Mississippi, over the issue of integration and all that meant to the South, was the thing to do. This is also when the FBI had Martin Luther King labeled the 'most dangerous Negro alive' and had him logged as a Communist. (Another anti Communist : Guy Bannister, had applied (I don't know the outcome of the application) to The Mississippi Sovereignty Commission as investigator (they amongst other things gathered intelligence on Citizens which was used to destroy livelihoods). The Bannister - Walker connection has been mentioned elsewhere. An other (Van- ex FBI agents previously mentioned in relation to the case were working for the Comission. So, Walker:the War Hero, anti-Communist, Insurrectionist, Litigator, Politician, Nutcase, (assassin?)?? ...Will the real Walker please stand up? (A photo of Walker from those days would be nice for illustration.) ____________________ *The MSCF's are by accounts heavily redacted, scattered and withheld on grounds of persons not giving consent. Nevertheless, the recent Bill opening up the avenue of prosecuting and investigating unsolved Civil Rights murders is a path to information.

Jim, I think your view on Walker makes sense. A few days ago I came across this article. (I meglected to copy source.I'll search and see if I can find it again if necessary) However I got a distinct impression that it was a rightwing groupings newspaper called 'All the Way'. 'Nationalist Movement' seems to be one group mentioned in many of the articles. So, one would expect it to be apologetic with regards to Walker. It seems very hard to find anecdotes about the person Walker. With the perspective you present this article makes more sense to me now. 1: "Walker was Noteworthy for Recanting 1957 LITTLE ROCK -- The enigma which was General Edwin A. Walker's life lives on. Walker, a decorated war veteran, commanded federal troops which bludgeoned Americans in the streets to force minorities into Central High School in 1957. The event was the subject of a Redeem '57 protest at the school in 1992 by The Nationalist Movement. But Walker later recanted and led forces opposed to de-Americanization during pro-majority demonstrations at the University of Mississippi in 1962. Walker spent most of his life maintaining that the Little Rock Invasion was a "colossal mistake" which needed to be corrected through repeal of the Civil Rights' Acts. He stubbornly declined his Army pension to protest military force against peaceful citizens. He lived a subsistence lifestyle, though he eventually accepted the pension for health reasons. The general's health worsened after Attorney General Robert Kennedy committed Walker to Fort Leonard Wood's psychiatric facility following the commander's repudiation of the Kennedy-ordered Invasion. Rumors, never confirmed, held that mind-altering drugs had been administered to "brainwash" Walker. " 2: "Earning Earl Warren's Wrath Chief Justice Earl Warren overturned 1,000 years of English law in order to deny $1 million in libel damages awarded to Walker by a Texas jury. In Walker v. Associated Press, Warren ruled that reporters can lie, even knowing that they are publishing false information. The wire service falsely reported that Walker was "leading a charge" against federal troops at Ole Miss, although he simply made a speech against de-Americanization. Walker became a political power-house in Dallas, where he died at 84, after organizing the widely acclaimed protest against the 1963 visit of liberal spokesman Adali Stevenson. Even critics credit Walker with helping perpetuate Texas' rightist aura. But the gnawing guilt of Central High School preyed on Walker. He even insisted his phone was bugged. On the speakers' stump, Walker was brusque and outspoken. He once knocked a drinking glass off the podium, showering a spectator, and laughed it off as "hazardous duty pay". He told the editor of All The Way that history would prove that Cuba, not Little Rock, should have been invaded, and that the majority, not the minorities, should rule America." ____________________________ If it reflects Walkers views, the Ole' Miss crisis was a 'Kennedy Led Invasion' and Walker was the leader of a 'Nationalist Pro-Majority Resistance'.

http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/...estapes/a1.html This site provides a series of transcripts of the negotiations between the two Kennedy's and Governor Barnett at the time of the Ole' Miss crisis. Some of the commentary is not necessarily correct but it does give insight into the negotiating 'style' of Kennedy. The crisis proceeded on a number of levels. Barnett had his agenda and the Kennedy's theirs. A seemingly irreconcilable situation was ultimately resolved by the covert negotiations that were not publicly revealed. What it came down to was a threat by the Kennedy's to expose publicly Barnetts role and a refusal by Kennedy allow his marshals to draw arms. It appears that Barnett was on the one hand calling for an insurrection and on the other promnising to stand aside if he was forced by a show of arms. (I interpret this as an attempt by Barnett to provoke an armed confrontation. Kennedy on the other hand would have none of that and in fact tear gas was used while the insurrection led by Walker was responsible for two fatalities. The end result was integration. (Katzenbach and Yardbroughs status in the south suffered.) This situation is complete in the sense of having a beginning and an end with an outcome determined by Kennedy. As such it can be used as a micro study to understand the Kennedy-Fidel negotiations.

There is an enduring tendency to label entire groups as responsible. I think this aids the smoke manufacturers. The CIA as a group is not responsible. Quite possibly past/present members or associates are. If one attacks the CIA as a whole, the response necessarily is negative and as such it is a black hole of research : put an endless amount of attention on it and an endless stream of nothing emerges. CIA areas of work overlap in such a way that they have to be very wary of carte blanche disclosure. Primary to the CIA is the survival of the USA as they see it. If revelations truly threaten their existence (and therefore the existence of the US as they see it) they retreat and regroup and continue. Thus the interests of the CIA and the conspirators at times run parallel. The interests of the CIA is NOT to find the assassins, but to protect the USA as they see it. The interests of the assassins is to not be found. To the extent that CIA involvement exists that evidence is not available even if it should exist. Therefore the CIA role is to maintain the smoke screen, but not because they are as a group responsible. Therefore areas of research indicated by studying the source as CIA is safe becuse it's fruitless. EXCEPT, and this is a very important point, except as an indicator of the 'unsafe' areas. In other words, the fire is NOT where the smoke is, the 'conspiracy' IS the conspiracy. A view outside its morphing quality, (as it shifts from CIA to Johnson to Castro to Anti Castro to Mob and lately to Garrison and back and forth ad infinitum), that is alert to the unusual may prove fruitful.

There was in all probability a conspiracy to kill Kennedy. And for the last 42 years, a conspiracy has been in place to hide the truth. This shifting, morphing smoke screen, if penetrated, would change things dramatically. The mirrors would be shattered, and if as many suspect, the involvement goes far into existing power structures, it would mean pruning off of fallguys, distractions, defamation suits, disappearances, and irrelevant legal maneuverings. Perhaps even global events. I doubt 'they' would go: 'I admit it, fair cop guv, which way to the injection room?' PS this is ONE reason I am opposed to the death penalty. Texas increases the likelyhood of no whistleblowers ever emerging. A justice system that takes into account redemption and forgiveness would create an environment where those who may in later life suffer the inevitable heartache of unresolved guilt could speak up.

Mark, the only young people I've discussed the assassination with are my children and nephew (all under 12) and then only because they are curious about what I'm doing on the computer as kids are. So I've not gone into any detail. On the whole they think it's an OK thing to be interested in, but of course barbies and revenge of the sith is more interesting. Older people my age, while not interested beyond coffee chats, also see nothing peculiar in my interests. Still, not much interest in doing anything about it. However, I think there is definitely a safe zone and an unsafe zone in assassination research. The real truth if it was uncovered, beyond strong suspicion, would raise the stakes. This is ONE reason I personally favour the unpopular areas of research, reasoning that these areas are unpopular perhaps because they are 'spooky' black holes in which reputations, and sometimes lives are lost. The safe areas of CIA, Mob, pro-con Fidel hold no interest for me. It's the places where people 'go postal', where information dries up, where people disappear as if they never existed that may be the areas that contain the information to pinpoint the guilty.

Jim, I think I get what youre saying here. I had considered the whole thing as a 'sign of the times'. What surprised me at the time of reading these FOI BUFILES on the matter was the rational response of the agents assigned to deal with it. The lawyer makes repeated attempts to get info on MAD from Sullivan, Sullivan brushes him off. Letters by 'concerned citizens' are responded to with form letters and 'out of town, sorry but...'. One very well written complaint has a note attached to it to the effect that 'this person is known to find communist influences in all sorts of places...' So, the point is: the crazy persona of Walker et al APPEARS to have been in formation and recognised by the FBI PRIOR to 1 jan 1961. BUFILES released under FOI indicates that this may be the case. Walker is on record as contacting the FBI by phone over this matter in feb '59. This was brought to attention of Hoover. So, when did the progression to whacky persona start? It seems to me that it was not a sudden one when Oswald started his moves to return to USA. And it seems that Hoover and Sulloivan knew this.

"....suddenly go whacky." Jim, an other look at Walkers mind can be got from here: http://www.collectmad.com/fbi/data/Bufile-Documents.html An insight into General Walkers fervent anti-communism may be had from his phone call on the fifth of February 1959, from Arkansas to the FBI alerting them of the subversive nature of M.A.D. magazine particularly pointing out 'disparaging remarks about the military, industry, and American institutions.' (In response to this and other letters, particularly those from kids around the country writing to J E Hoover asking for membership cards to 'The Draft Dodgers Club', Hoover instructed an agent to go see the Owners of M.A.D. magazine to inform them of Hoovers disapproval. (in one memo from the FBI in response to concerned parent, we are informed that A.E. Neuman is a fictional character.)) The lawyer (also an officer) who defended Walker and organised an investigation into the Walker shooting also wrote to the FBI about MAD magazine. The agent that this Lawyer (from Oklahoma) approached for information in reporting this (and other attempts at contact) seems to have regarded him as a nuisance. Generally it seems that the FBI regarded these diligent citizens as loonies. One agent wrote on one bufile where a parent complained about the communist rag MAD that his kid probably blew his dad a raspberry. Anyway, the point is, the magazine was hitting hard on the JBS and other organisations such as the FBI, and Walker was already then being regarded as a bit of a screwball.

a 'minor' point: Judaism, Zionism, Israel, Jewry Lee, this is not an attack on you personally, whom I know to be a man of integrity and with a penchant for uncovering the often missed and interesting. (I wish there was no need for disclaimers of any sort, however..) The grouping of Jews as a group responsible: why don't we take the fact that most of the people of interest as being white men as a condemnation of aryans?, oh that's right we already do that, the fascists. Or maybe gays.. ahh done already..hmmm..white christian men who vote republican? There is a grouping that could possibly be identified as having a group modus that may be relevant: the zionist. As this is a political force and not a religion, ok maybe. This careless throwing together of totally different people into groups, as the writer of this article seems wanting to do, smacks, if not of ignorance, of an agenda to be wary of.

Peace implies a degree of unity, satisfaction and tolerance that, should it be achieved, will destroy one of the fundamental driving force of capitalism- inequality and disunity. Equality and democracy are not in the interest of capital. A divided world struggling for it is. War on horror has replaced the war on red lunatics, bent on nuclear holocaust, lurking around under beds. Where there is no conflict it is sought, nurtured and even instigated. The dissociated psychopathy and sociopathy of der leaders of the free world are the greatest stumbling blocks to a good nights sleep. Unfortunately they are unlikely to retire to a sanitorum for rehabilitation and will need help. The first step is to remove them from the reach of all buttons. The primary means to achieve this is probably at the moment the ballot box. One needs to be prepepared howver to defend the results of a fair vote. Some conflict may ensue, however a cool mature leadership in civil defence should make the transition possible.

Ok George, I've updated the suggested list of those present. Possibles proposed for the ID shifts Hosty to unlikely c/o Frank. Other names mentioned : Bradley, Bishop, Bookhout, Quigly. Some thoughts: There is an accepted view that media personnell were not in that area. However it appears that there were a few. Also there was a dash from upstairs down to get there before the elevator, this would be an opportuinity in spite of security arrangements for people to join the group. (I'm slowly making my way through the documents on the Dallas City site, a lot of documents appear not to be there, including wrong links, in one instance I found that the listed code of the gif does not match the document that appears. Correcting this in the URL in this instance brought up the correct document (the numbered scaled diagram in question)) OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO List of those on record as present at time of Oswald being murdered. L. H. Oswald, Jack Ruby, DPD Dep. Ch. G. L. Lumpkin, Asst. Ch. Charles Batchelor, Dep. Ch. M. W. Stevenson, Captains: J. W. Fritz, (Sup) O. A. Jones, (Sup.) G. D. King, F. W. Martin, C. E. Talbert, Lieutenants; (Sup) George Butler, R.S. Pierce, W. Wiggins, V. S. Smart, R. E. Swain, Seargents: J.A. Putnam, P. T. Dean, B. J. Maxey, Detectives: D. R. Archer, C. W. Brown, B. L. Beatty, E. R. Beck, D. G. Brantley,, D. L. Burgess, A. W. Capps, W. E. Chambera, B. S. Clardy, B. H. Combest, W. J. Cutchshaw, Harold Dawson, L. C. Graves, C. A. Greeson, O. W. Harrison, J. D. Hutchinson R. L. Lowery, T. D. McMillon, L D. Miller, L. D. Montgomery, J. K. Ramsey, H.(N) B. R(N)eynolds, I. R. Stephens, I. F. VanCleave, R. C. Wagner, J. C. Watson, Officers: R. E. Vaughn, N. J. Daniels, Patrolmen: W. J. Harrison, W. B. Slack, L. E. Jez, (jail elevator) C. G. Lewis, R. C. Nelson, D. L. Pate, B. G. Patterson, L. C. Taylor, R. A. Watkins, Reserve: Cap. C. O. Arnett, Officer Sgt. K. Croy, Officer W. J. Newman, A. R. Brock, J. D. Brockaway, R. A. Cox, A. B. Craig, J. R. Hopkins, J. Kasten, H. M. Kriss, J. C. McCain, G. E. Worley still to be sorted C. Goolsby, C. N. Dhority, J. R. Leavell, Sup. V. C. Campbell,, MEDIA John Alexander, Hank Machiarelli, (*Tom Petit) Tom Pettit, George Phenix, Mike Smith (*Mike Smith), Milt Sosin, Jim Standard, Unknown Japanese Reporter, (*?) Unknown Reporter, Paul Cisco, Oliver Oakes, Bert Reinhart, Robert S. Huffaker, Jack Beers, J. R. Davidson, J. B. English, Warren Ferguson, Bob Fenley, R. Hankal, Robert Jackson, F. B. Johns(t)on, Seth Kantor, Ike Pappas, Francois Pelou, Warren Richey, Johnny Smith, John Tankersly, Robert Thornton, David Timmons, Jimmy Turner, Homer Venso, I. N. Walker, Jack Renfro, Terrence McGarry, CIVILIANS: J. F. Newton, J. D. Slocum, ____________________________ Cross referencing these two lists makes for two duplicates and therefore perhaps 3 unaccounted for. possibles : sgt haxey, det benty (?? bentley, brantley??), res lt mccoy, payne, hughes, Thanks to Robin: Update on people standing close to man in question. As the statements frequently include observations on who was standing close, if these can be identified then 'x' may be identified. the guy on the left in particular is clear and has distinct features.

Ok Tim, I get your point. I choose to see the topic of education as the relevant one here and the link as an opener into a discussion of where 'self education' may lead. (As of now I want to focus elsewhere so not responding to future responses is not to devalue said response.)

Tim, I wonder if you read what I wrote or are just reacting to me semmingly indicating your outright condemnation of the site is inappropriate. I don't think Robert posting it reflects on him. He appears to wish to discuss a particular attitude. That doesn't mean that he or those responding hold those views. The issue as I can see it is one of 'education'. In this context a lot of the site contents are indeed 'trash'. That would go for much that is posted. The 'thought police', and its sometimes self appointed officials are of just as much interest here. John Simkins postings on Angleton, for example, contributes to understanding of those generating fringe reality. I don't think Robert here has anything to apologise for. As far as the other questions, I don't think violence is good. _______________ Was desert storm one of the first instances of a broad censoring of news? I understand the Vietnam war was brought to an end partly because of the media access allowing people to see what was actually happening as opposed to viewing sanitized versions of reality?