John Dolva

Tim, absolutely.

Stewart, first allow me introduce myself. My primary interest is the JFK assassination. The Ripper interest is a recent one (weeks). So my background knowledge is very patchy. Re: Levy. I make assumptions and then see how they fit in with things. In this way I follow trails and jump to another as something comes up. So, I took the letter where the supposed Ripper is proclaiming an intention to give himself up. Apparently then had second thoughts and redacted name address etc. This letter has two sides. When one looks at the back one can see that the writing on the front has not bled through. The knife 'photo' and the redacted areas have. This is written with a pen and ink (quill?). : Dip...write ...run low...dip etc. The ink is usually dry fairly quickly. It may be blotted as well. Probably it's written in soft light conditions. candles, Gas, Lamp. The human eye in dark conditions does some interesting things. The 'red cones' tend to shut down, which is why for example a red rose viewed at night can look deep black, why emergency lighting at night is often blue. So, a red ink may look black at night. Or in candle light at least a very deep red. When one takes the rear of the page one can see that the redacted areas show through. This ink was applied after the rest of the writing. (It was then partially overwritten in the lower right). The area covered by the intitial writing would make the paper at this area less absorbent. This means that to some extent on the rear the redaction bleeds through differently where there is no writing. On the front the area that has not bled through would present a different quality as well. ________________ If one takes the rear and flips it to a mirror image of itself so that when one lines up, resizes and rotates the rear to match the front, one gets a view of these different qualities. If the rear view has areas where ink has not bled through as much, then these areas would be a negative of the area seen from the front where the density would have multiplied. So: superimposing these two images and making one negative and making one slightly transparent and doing some enhancement it is possible to discern a few letters. The J repeats on both signature areas. The room available for the letters, and the slanting of the redacted shape PLUS the faint portions of letters makes me look for a suspect with a short name that starts with J. The name J. Levy fits the bill. _____ Here's a front on view of a 3d map of this using the front and rear view of the lower signature with what to me looks like components of letters. I've airbrushed purple into the image where it looks to me like letters are. The 'J' is also there in the other 'coffin' shape.

John Simkin date='Nov 15 2005, 04:29 PM' post='45372'] Several researchers believe there was a connection between JFK’s foreign policy and his assassination. Some, like myself, take the view that it was connected to his attempts to develop a more left-wing policy. Others believe that JFK was not genuine about this change of policy and that he was assassinated by left-wing forces (Soviets/Castro). referring to a selection of posts from the Ed. Forum: John Simkin "Conservative historians have attempted to portray the struggle against slavery and child labour as a moral issue. In truth, it was primarily an economic issue." http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...indpost&p=45461 Tom Carroll "...Cuba and Vietnam were only threatened changes at the time of the assassination. I believe the change Kennedy represented was far deeper and cultural. He had a liberal's concern for human rights which historically translates into avid support in Latin America. In contrast with the riots directed at Vice President Nixon during his visit there in the Fifties, the Kennedys received a euphoric welcome just a few short years later. Hardliners could only be chagrined by such popularity. The same is true of Kennedy's support of human rights, domestically. Kennedy brought rapid change to the Civil Rights issue during his last year." http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...indpost&p=45405 From a post quote by me: "Although the practice of lynching had existed since before slavery, it gained momentum during Reconstruction, when viable black towns sprang up across the South and African Americans began to make political and economic inroads by registering to vote, establishing businesses and running for public office. Many whites -- landowners and poor whites -- felt threatened by this rise in black prominence." http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...indpost&p=39605 ________________________________ After a short time of the series of student questions on a range of issues I looked at what topics appeared to be the ones of greatest interest: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...indpost&p=42150 ________________________________ I have often noted that so called 'hip pocket issues' can take precedence over some more cerebral ideological consideration. Often it seems that when 'larger' issues are addressed there is an element of selfinterest there as well. ________________________________ With these considerations in mind I think it not unreasonable to say "domestic issues are more likely to have been a motivator for the assassination of Kennedy." And of these issues, that which presented the greatest change in circumstance for the greatest number of people in the part of USA where Kennedy was assassinated was Civil Rights. And of this broad spectrum; desegregation, voting rights, education and control over place of residence and employment were the prime destabilisers. ________________________________ The Oxford insurrection and the Mississippi Sovereignty Commission and the people involved have direct ties to persons of interest in the Cuba, Mob, FBI theatre. Only in the last few years and even in the last few months, promising avenues for research are opening up. Old Civil Rights cases, files, testimonies etc are being focussed upon. It would be remiss of the research community to not take advantage of these opportunities now presented. Therein, irrespective of personal theory favourites, may very well lie some pieces in the puzzle. ::::::::::::::::::: It needs to be kept in mind that I consider the conspiracy as having multiple layers, primarily 1. Initiator/s, Banker/s 2. Leader and middle man. 3. The Lumpen or actual on the ground folk. The above refers to that which provides the motivation for the second and third layer. The primary layer may have had some broader considerations and knew how to use the baser motivations of its 'group of patsies' (hte patsies are those that in a final analysis would be expendable in the drive to conceal the prime individual/s.

(* this 'second entrance' appears to be the entrance to the covered area no longer in existence) Ta muchly Gerry. Everything helps. The construction with dimensions go some way to constructiong a virtual 'nest' within which to examine the available space/conditions. It seems at this stage that the 'nest' as presented to the public through the commission (omissions?) has been sanitized in order to promote the official version. I'm trying to get independent cofirmations such as being presented by people as yourself in order to examine this issue. Tom, the company backgrounds are read with gratitude. Trying to stay on track with topic (which is spawning multiple avenues) a look at Truly's testimony explains a bit more: "Mr. Truly. I went to work for the Texas School Book Depository in July 1934. Mr. Belin. And have you been employed by the Texas School Book Depository since that date, since July 1934? Mr. Truly. That is right. (At this point, Mr. Dulles entered the hearing room.) Mr. Belin. In what capacity have you worked for that company? Mr. Truly. First, when I first went to work for this company, I had charge of the miscellaneous order department, which is actually a one-man operation. I filled orders for books other than state-adopted textbooks. ... I worked on through that time until the present time. During the war I worked in the North American plant at Arlington. ..., for around 14 months, at night. But I continued to hold my job. ...., I would go down to work 2, 3, 4 hours a day. Shortly after that, I took charge of all the shipping. ..., I have been superintendent of the operation since some time in the late 1944. ... I am a director--I am a member of the board of directors of the Texas School Book Depository. .... It is a private corporation. ........ The main publisher was Scott, Foresman and Co. Now, they have quite a lot of small orders, all through the year. They are one of our biggest publishers. So it kept him busy filling mostly their orders, plus some of the smaller publishers. Possibly he filled some of Gregg Publishing Go. and others. But when he would run out of Scott, Foreman orders, he would pick up other orders that might have had several publishers' books on the same order. Incidentally, not only Scott, Foresman orders were billed separately. There would be other publishers' orders on the same invoice. Mr. Belin. Well, perhaps you might explain to the Commission just what exactly the nature of your business is, and how an employee would go about filling orders. Mr. Truly. We are agents for a number of publishers. We furnish offices for those who desire them in Texas. And our business is shipping, inventorying, collecting, doing all the bookkeeping work for the various publishers' books. Now, we have most of the publishers' stock is lined up alphabetically by titles or by stock numbers or code numbers, whichever determines that. And the location of the books each publisher's books are to themselves. They are not mixed in with several other publishers on the various floors. On the first floor we have bin stock, shelf stock, we fill a lot of small orders from. And then in the basement the same. The fifth and the sixth floor, and part of the seventh floor is overflow stock. It is reserve stock. But the boys have to go to those floors all during the day to pick up stock and bring it to the first floor in order to process and complete the orders for the checker. Mr. Dulles. What would reserve stock mean? Mr. Truly. Actually it is not reserve stock--it is not surplus either. It is part of our stock. But we can carry a limited. amount only on the first floor where we do our shipping. So they may get an order for a hundred copies of a certain book and there may only be 10 or 15 or 20 on the shelf on the first floor. They will have to go upstairs and get a carton or two. And they replenish the first floor stock from that. And many of our freight orders are filled entirely from our reserve stock. And they bring them to the first floor. All orders reach the first floor, where they are checked and processed and packed and shipped from that floor."

With regards to the pipe location. This closeup indicates that the distance from wall to pipe centerline is almost exactly one brick length. As I as yet don't know early US brick sizes I can't put a dimension to it. However, it goes some way to reconstructing the space available in the 'snipers nest'. EDIT:: Reply to Frank below: Thank you. Considering error margins I think that is sufficient for an accurate reconstruction. Barring other Dallas standards, it's possible to estimate window opening and location (relation to floor etc) from photos I have. One thing I have trouble finding is a west wall to pipe/west wall to window opening (brick opening wot the casement window opening dimension). The photos I have are not clear enough to be certain of brick numbers. It appears to be either 3, 3.5 or four bricks.

The information goes a long way towards clearing things up. I try to read these posts a number of times over time as some things don't at first read gel. The oil in floor issue is not something I have given a great deal of attention to for a number of reasons. Others, in this case, Macadams, Tom, greg etc indicate it is an issue to look at. I'm still not clear on why it's important. There must be some issues dealt with elsewhere that answers this so some 'search key words' would help. As well, timber flooring in OZ is traditionally eucalypt (depending of course on where you are), in NSW there is often the cypress. I've renovated and extended an original hand built settlers cottage in outback NSW where the 6' tg is still in good nick. Here in WA the best flooring is original first felled forest jarrah that at 100+ years and is as good as or better than new. Oily surfaces even at 100+ summer temps whether in the hot humid north or the hot dry south has never been encountered by me as a problem. When I was sanding floors on island off the coast of Darwin pre monsoon 'suicide month' (working at 12-14 hr 7 days just cause there was nothing else to do) the sandsheets didn't clog with oils. Many australian timbers have natural preservative. Also in some instances the builder will force an extra tight fit in order to deal with drying. Another consideration is that a bit of a draught is not such a bad thing in a country that gets so hot and often not very cold. (I remember the only instance when I've been asked to use oil was when a violin teacher in Sydney wanted more quiet floor boards.) (I had actually had thought that the 'oil' referred to could have been a build up in the cracks from slime from the inevitable rotting vegies in a grocery store? A grocer delivery I knew in Sydney had to change vehicles every few years simply because the old one inevitably ended up too much of a stink (there was suspicion the driver who always lodged and got a tender was perhaps not as diligent in cleaning as he could have been) But maybe grocer is something different than in OZ. I understand you call a general store sometimes a drug store? However I have never been to Texas (the closest is Santa Fe' and Saint Louis) and have no idea of timber/conditions there. So let's for argument sake say that oil was a problem in the TSBD building (Tom's description of the matter sounds reasonable to me). (* another thing I notice, which I haven't come across before, is how the flooring is laid at an angle (also is that 4" tg?) I'd be interested to know why its laid thus. It looks to me like there might be expansion joints in between the pillars). _____________ Is that second entrance doorway part of the TSBD company lease?

Greg :: "John, Jack Cason was President, Campbell was VP and Truly was Superintendant. All three were company directors of the TSBD. The TSBD covered Texas, Oklahoma. Arkansas, Louisiana and New Mexico -- same 5 states covered by 112th MIG. The article you posted from McAdams' site, you shouldn't be surprised to learn, was authored by a Warrenista named Jerry Organ. His story that the floor laying was due to oil left from previous occupant is without citation, and really makes little sense. Why, if the book cartons were in danger of damage, would they wait almost a year to fix the problem? And if there actually had been oil on the floor, wouldn't the cartons have been getting damaged all along? Lastly, in testimony, Ruth Paine said she believed Oswald worked at the old warehouse. Why then did fear Oswald was involved when it came over the news that shots were fired from the book depository on Elm St, as she also testified to?" Greg, as a relative newbie, there are many holes in my background. So the surprise is there, as well as a wonder of how important it is. Input by yourself and others on these issues allows other newbies to also sort these things out. BTW what is 112th MIG? OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I'll try to summarise the components from the various sources that connect directly to the main topic : what is the TSBD. It's a building that derives its name from the main company that occupied it from 1962 through to 1970. This company, 'The Texas School Book Depository', from a post by Tom : "I, J. C. Cason, President and Treasurer, of the Texas School Book Depository declare the following statements: The Texas School Book Depository was organized in 1908 as a sole proprietorship and continued in this manner until 1927 when it was incorporated under the laws of the State of Texas. The Corporation's offices are located at Elm and Houston Streets, Dallas, Texas, and its warehouse and storage plant are located at 1917 North Houston Street, Dallas, Texas. It neither owns nor operated any other buildings in Dallas or in any other city. The present officers are: J. C. Cason, President and Treasurer; and O. V. Campbell, Vice President and Secretary. The Directors are: J. C. Cason, O. V. Campbell and R. S. Truly. The Shareholders of all outstanding Capital Stock are J. C. Cason and O. V. Campbell. The Corporation acts as an independent agency for a group of thirty-three publishers to warehouse and distribute textbooks to the various schools in the states of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, and New Mexico. It has no other business activity other than that afore mentioned. It is not connected in any way with any state or municipal government and operates solely as a private Corporation with a Charter from the State of Texas. Signed the 22d day of May 1964. (S) J. C. Cason, J. C. Cason." This company distributed/s books through states in the south. These books were selected according to guidelines, as have been pointed out by various posts, to an extent aimed at promoting an ideology. 2. Space in the building was apparently partially leased by other entities as well. Exactly what these other entities were is not clear. 3. The building itself was owned by H.D. Byrd who is a person of interest. _______________________________ It still seems to me the issue of what the connection between Byrd and 'The Texas School Book Depository Company' (herein referred to as TSBD company) in not answered. A lot is made of the fact that Byrd owned the building. Oswald, however, was employed by the TSBD company. I'm suggesting for consideration that if Byrd has no connections to the TSBDcompany then his ownership of the TSBDbuilding may be irrelevant?

The reason I keep harping on identity of owners of "The Texas School Book Depository Company"(a privately-owned company charged with fulfilling book orders from schools all over the Southwest, incorporated in 1927) is probably obvious, but just in case : Whatever Byrd may have been up to, unless there is a connection betweeen him and the company, how can he have anything to do with Oswalds employment? The company as a separate entity LEASED the building from Byrd. Does that mean he has input into how it does its business? One thought is the connections of individuals within the company like rightwing groupings. These people would then have to have some control. The vice president identifies Truly as the one in charge of hiring and firing.

Stephen, I've been looking at these letters, turning them this way and that way and reading up on the case. I can see the enduring interest. There's more to it than meets the eye. It seems to parallel the JFK mystery in complexity and trails. I've been resisting being drawn in too many directions and have focussed on about 17 odd supposed Ripper missives. The most important MAY be the graffiti. If one does a statistical analysis of the letter frequency (which can be used as a kind of 'finger print') of the two versions of the graffiti one finds they are EXACTLY similar. This 'finger print' is one of the only consistent feature that one can use to crossreference to other writings. Some letters stand out as being distinctly different. Others have similarities. And in turn others have similarities to this. Grammar etc is another feature not dependent on the actual writing itself. Others no doubt have reached conclusions here. Handwriting and grammar and tone is altered within one person depending on how much lauadanum or booze is in the system, quite apart from mood swings and mindsets of the psychopathic schizophrenic brain damaged etc. Over all I think there is a possibility that some of the letters I've looked at are from the same person*. Graffitti, Hell, Lusk, New, and the boss letters (2), plus the so far unseen to me : the address letter. (based on statistics and lettershapes. However, different people on different education learn different styles. One of the police memos therefore could be from the ripper??) One person I've got reason to consider is J. Levy.What do you think of him? Do any authenticated writings of his survive? *clarification. : Not all from same , but some are similar to others and there is some overlaps particularly if one takes in to account the different persons that may reside within one body, deliberately or otherwise. A puzzle to be sure.

Lee, since I wrote that I came across an article (in a Dallas magazine I think, about said controversy. By that account the windows did a bit of musical chairs. Byrd took west, Mayhew took east, and replaced with a rear window. Controversy not settled I understand. So the real window might have been in place a few years more. I have the photos from assassination showing 'sniper nest from outside. But nothing equally clear of the west window. Anyone? Gerry, the main thing (apart from the usual enjoyable read I get is that 'Collins' is not a secure system hence not used for such things as launch protocols. Possibly for 'lesser' coded messages. Anyway, I've been scouring the net to the best of my ability from here to find any info on who owned "The Texas School Book Depository Company"(a privately-owned company charged with fulfilling book orders from schools all over the Southwest, incorporated in 1927). -All I have is that they left the building in 1970 soon after Byrd sold it. -The vice president OCHUS V. CAMPBELL witnessed the assassination and was interviewed by the FBI. -They had a warehouse a few blocks away. Otherwise, unlike other companies, there seems to be little info available on the net.

john : ""from mcadams site: "On July 4, 1939, oil tycoon Colonel D. Harold Byrd purchased the building at public auction. Byrd's career included co-founding the Civil Air Patrol and funding his explorer cousin, Admiral Richard E. Byrd, who named an Antarctic mountain range after the Colonel..... "" William :: ""What McAdams won't tell you: Admiral Richard E. Byrd's early Antarctic expeditons used primitive radio communications that the US Navy couldn't pick up, but a young ham radio enthusist from Cedar Rapids could on his homemade set - Arthur Collins, whose Collins Radio became the military's main radio supplier during WWII and afterwards with SAC, NASA and AF1. Art Collins was a close friend of Curtis LeMay. Collins Radio provided cover for the CIA's ship the "Rex" in 1963 and for thed construction of the NRO HQ as recently as 1994. And JD Tippit's best friend Carl Mather, whose car was seen near the scene of Tippit's murder, was the Collins Radio technician on the VP plane. [see: The Collins Radio Connections - COPA Abstract 1994] The Byrd Connection can go a long way. BK bkjfk3@yahoo.com"" William, Gerry, would this tie in with this earlier "minesport' post 20 "Oliver Stone's JFK"?: Gerry : "There is a general igorance as to the function of the "Nuclear Suitcase", commonly referred to as "The Football". [i had a member inquire as to more on same, but AOL screwed me up and I lost a Gig of e-mails] The "Football" is a transmit ONLY cipher device, but can be queried by transponder from either the flying command post styled as "Looking Glass", or other relay vehicle. During the JFK era, "Looking Glass" was an RC-707, same fuselage as "Air Force One" [tail #25000] but cram packed with ELINT/ECM & communications relay equipment. Later, an AWACS type aircraft was used [one with the dorsal rotating radar antenna], and thus it was not only a signals relay vehicle, but had the ability to observe and track all aircraft [and vehicles] in the vicinity of either the president on the ground, or when airborne. "Looking Glass" can transmit its discrete frequency messages via both "line-of-sight" (VHF/UHF) and low frequency (HF/SSB) to predetermined radio relay sites, which then pass same to the command authority. Therefore, the president exercises NO direct control over any launch components, he just has the capability to use a communication link which in turned is relayed to SAC/NORAD/NCA. The "Football" contains a transponder which alerts "Looking Glass" as to whether the cipher device is up and running, or has failed and gone off of the air. I was told that NSA refused to release the "Looking Glass" tapes generated on November 22nd, 1963. Some retired NSA CTs "speculated" that: (1) There were numerous spurious radio transmissions recorded that day, and they were disguised as air traffic control verbage; [we used similar background radio traffic in the JFK movie, and Dale Dye was the voice responding to my transmissions] (2) The transponder inside the football sent a "red-alert" to Looking Glass, indication power supply or tranmitter failure moments before the motorcade entered Dealey Plaza; and, (3) The term "Minesport" [which is similar sounding, but incorrect for that era] referred to a backup football which was ordered sent by the Looking Glass CT commander at approx. 1627 hours G.M.T."

"Pat and Tom, this is interesting, however: ...as the buiding was leased to the company called "The Texas School Book Depository" which had warehouses elsewhere as well, what would be more interesting to see is who were the owners of the TSBD (the company, not the building). (Please refer to post 1 and 3 for some background)" This is also interesting: A witness I hadn't heard of before was vice president of the TSBD company. He was standing in front of the TSBD building and heard the shots as coming from elsewhere than the TSBD building. "FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION Date 11/24/63 OCHUS V. CAMPBELL, 7120 Twin Lakes Lane, Dallas, Texas, furnished the following information: He is the Vice President of the Texas School Book Depository Company, with offices located on the second floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building in Dallas. On November 22, 1963, he was present at his office at the above named building and at about 12:30 PM on that day, he and several other associates were together stationed about 30 feet in front of this building facing away from the building observing the passing motorcade containing President KENNEDY. At this time, he heard a loud report, which at first he considered to be a fire cracker or some object set off by a crank and believed the noise came from away from his building. This illusion, he explained, may have been due to the sound bouncing off the building and other objects in the vicinity. After hearing two more such reports, he realized they must have been rifle shots and since President KENNEDY's car had advanced just out of his vision, he went forward a few feet to observe this automobile, inasmuch as he feared that the rifle shots were in connection with an attempt upon President KENNEDY's life. He then observed the car bearing President KENNEDY to slow down, a near stop, and a motorcycle policeman rushed up. Immediately following this, he observed the car rush away from the scene. He then immediately rushed into his building without having seen anything unusual from any window of his building. Inside he was told shortly thereafter by the warehouse superintendent, Mr. TRULY, that all the employees of the company had been rounded up and one employee, LEE HARVEY OSWALD, was missing. Mr. CAMPBELL observed a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, bearing New Orleans, Louisiana No. 112 723, and stated that he is sure this is a photograph of the employee named above, but added that he is not personally aquainted with him and has never seen him. He advised that he has always given Mr. TRULY the responsibility for hiring employees for the warehouse. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- on 11/24/63 at Dallas, Texas File # DL 89-43 By Special Agent EDWARD C. HARDIL & PAUL L. SCOTT Date Dictated 11/24/63"

Pat and Tom, this is interesting, however: ...as the buiding was leased to the company called "The Texas School Book Depository" which had warehouses elsewhere as well, what would be more interesting to see is who were the owners of the TSBD (the company, not the building). (Please refer to post 1 and 3 for some background)

Yes, Pat, I mentioned the CAP connection in the post. However: OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO So, the Building was owned by Byrd. It was leased to companies, one of which was a company called the TSBD. Connections between Byrd and the company 'TSBD' beyond this lease arrangement are unknown to me. It would appear that all photos after 6 weeks after the assassination do not show the original window. _____________________________ The company TSBD was/is a major scoolbook distributor in the USA. They have guidelines regarding what constitutes a school book. Often it would seem this is determined by an element of propaganda that has nothing to do with objective reality. Some writers call it 'ahistory'. In June 1944, a delegation of African-American leaders met with New York City school officials to discuss a central focus of black concern: history textbooks. That delegation reflected a broad spectrum of metropolitan Black opinion: Chaired by the radical city councilman Benjamin J. Davis, it included the publisher of the Amsterdam News—New York's major Black newspaper—as well as the bishop of the African Orthodox Church. In a joint statement, the delegates praised public schools' recent efforts to promote "intercultural education"—and to reduce "prejudice"—via drama, music, and art. Yet if history texts continued to spread lies about the past, Blacks insisted, all of these other programs would come to naught. One book described slaves as "happy"; another applauded the Ku Klux Klan for keeping "foolish Negroes" out of government. "Such passages ... could well have come from the mouths of the fascist enemies of our nation," the Black delegation warned. Even as America fought "Nazi doctrine" overseas, African Americans maintained, the country needed to purge this philosophy from history books at home.1 1 The following year New Yorkers poured into the streets to celebrate victory over Germany and Japan. Yet in the public schools, African Americans complained, children still used the same racist textbooks. Blacks took special aim at White liberals who supported antiprejudice programs but turned a blind eye to prejudiced texts.2 Indeed, school superintendent John E. Wade—himself a strong advocate of "intercultural education"—was the author of a text that extolled the KKK. The problem afflicted every subject in the curriculum, not just history. Music books featured songs calling African Americans "darkeys"; literature anthologies repeatedly referred to them as "coons" or "Sambos"; and geography texts, including one book by Wade's successor as city school chief, William E. Jansen, stressed the barbarity of Africa. "One need not go to the Southland to find that Negroes are ill-treated in textbooks," despaired the New York Age, another Black newspaper. "If gross misconceptions are learned by the children in the schools of New York City ... what can one expect in other sections of the country where many are still 'fighting the Civil War?'"3 2 Over the next two decades, "the Southland" would answer with a single phrase, "Whites Only." Especially after the Supreme Court issued its 1954 challenge to segregation in Brown v. Board of Education, Whites below the Mason-Dixon Line stepped up their efforts to eliminate any mention of African Americans from their own textbooks. In the North, meanwhile, Blacks continued to struggle, with little success, to remove the slurs and outright lies that still marred so-called "integrated" texts. Their efforts would not bear fruit until the early 1960s when African Americans developed a new strategy of protest. Borrowing directly from Brown, they argued that racist textbooks, like segregated classrooms, were "psychologically damaging" to black children. Tempering their older concerns with white bigotry, African Americans used the jargon of social psychology to argue that textbooks injured Black self-concept, Black self-identification, and especially Black self-esteem. Quoting the prominent anthropologist Margaret Mead, Philadelphia Black activist Horace Woodland declared in 1963, "'A people classed as a minority group has a need for a place in history to sustain their belief in their value.'" Until textbooks provided a "positive image" of African Americans, Woodland added, Black children would continue to suffer a "sense of inferiority." http://www.historycooperative.org/cgi-bin/.../zimmerman.html In 1993, the National Opinion Research Center (NORC) included the following open-ended question in its General Social Survey of random samples of non-institutionalized Americans aged eighteen years and older: There have been a lot of national and world events and changes over the past 60 years --- say, from about 1930 right up until today. Would you mention one or two such events. Sixteen percent of the 1606 respondents either didn't know or couldn't think of any such event. The remainder identified at least four. The most frequently mentioned incidents included: the fall of Communism (mentioned by 32% of the respondents), World War II (by 19%), the space program (15%), civil rights (12%), and the assassination of President John F. Kennedy (11%). Memories of the painful 1930s failed to surface: only 3.8% of the respondents mentioned the Great Depression and but .9% mentioned Franklin D. Roosevelt or his administration. Less than one out of five respondents mentioned World War II or any of its associated events (e.g., Pearl Harbor or the atomic blasts at Hiroshima and Nagasaki). Such absence of reference to what was the defining event of the past sixty years is not because the war's participants have died out with its memories. As of 1992, there were nearly eight and one-half million American soldiers alive who served at the time (and 65,000 who served during World War I). And it is not because American society has failed to bring recollections of the war to public attention. Over the past decade American culture has been saturated with its memories, from the fortieth anniversary observances of the landing at Normandy in 1984, to the fiftieth anniversary observances of Pearl Harbor (this author counted no fewer than 14 television shows about the event on December 7, 1991), and stories surrounding the opening of the American Holocaust Museum being cover stories of the nation's major news magazines. With the collapse of the USSR and the fall of the Berlin Wall, the media was filled with hitherto secret memories of complicities and atrocities committed during the conflict. The syndicated Hearst newspapers have featured daily "50 Years Ago Today"; recollections. And between 1991 and 195, the U.S. Post Office issued annual 10-stamp sets with 50-year-old images of the America's involvement in the war. Across the social landscape, where does this particular collective memory find its most fertile ground? Not surprisingly, there are clear correlations involving age and education. Those 65 years of age and older were three times as likely to mention the Second World War as were those 41 years of age or younger. Among the latter, those with four or more years of college education were three-and-one-half times more likely to mention the war than those with a high school degree or less. The degree of historical ignorance was considerable. Even at the elitist private university we found: the Russian Revolution occurring in 1970, the first atomic device detonated in 1915, manumission of American slaves occurring as early as 1830 and as late as 1910, the Peoples Republic of China coming into existence in 1790 and 1880 and Israel in 1810, the Napoleonic war preceding the French Revolution and occurring as recently as the 1880s, Darwin writing in the 18th century, and American women receiving the right to vote as early as 1810. The mean rho score of the order of events was .56 with a standard deviation of .316. The mean of the total number of decades individuals were off in their placements of events (with the maximum being capped at 100) was 46.9 with a standard deviation of 25.2 decades. Among the measures of mindsets supposedly associated with ahistoricity it found that: one-half of the respondents think that ultimate political power is held by special interest groups such as the military industrial complex; only one-third believe that the American political system attracts talented individuals; fifty-eight percent thinking that America's Golden Age has passed; nearly one-quarter believing that the U.S. suffers when developing nations prosper; and that four out of ten acknowledging that divisive elements must be located and eliminated or else our nation is in danger of disintegrating. The degree of historical knowledge possessed produces significant correlations with five of our mindset measures. The greater the degree of historical ignorance the more likely one is to believe that: America suffers when the Third World Prospers; divisive elements need to be located and eliminated or our society risks disintegration; those with power attempt to take advantage of less powerful others; contrary to what experts say, there are simple solutions to many of the nation's problems. Historical ignorance was significantly related to the beliefs that America's Golden Years have yet to come and that evil political figures have been working to destroy the morality and freedoms of this country suggest how the absence of historical perspective is bound-up with the authoritarian personality. This brings to mind the social psychological chemistry of the Weimar Republic that spawned National Socialism, how rising expectations were to be dashed and the dynamics of witchhunts and scapegoating were then to be unleashed. Historical ignorance also significantly correlated with the idea that the elderly have little of relevance to teach the young. In fact, of all of the measures considered, it was this variable that produced the greatest number of significant correlations. For instance, when compared with those who strongly disagreed that the old have little of relevance to teach the young: those who disagreed somewhat were 44 percent more likely and those who agreed were over twice as likely to believe that there once was an era in American politics when there was relatively no disagreement on major issues; those who disagreed somewhat were 2.4 times more likely and those who agreed were 2.9 times more likely to agree that the U.S. is weakened with the Third World prospers; those who disagreed somewhat were 39 percent more likely and those who agreed were 84 percent more likely to believe that America's Golden Years have yet to come; those who agreed were more than one-third more likely to believe that divisive elements need to be located and eliminated or our society risks disintegration; those who disagreed somewhat were 26 percent more likely and those who agreed were 86 percent more likely to believe that the American political system attracts as talented individuals as ever for public office. http://www.trinity.edu/~mkearl/histignr.html Nor is this subordination of knowledge to civic uplift a relic of the past: in many states, creationism is taught in place of biology and geology because of the perceived moral dangers of Darwinism. And many states continue to require American history to be falsified in order to promote patriotism: -the Texas Education Code provides that: “textbooks should promote democracy, patriotism, and the free enterprise system”; this provision is still employed to sanitize the teaching of history in Texas. So, in essence the TSBD was a purveyor of sanitized history throughout a large part of the USA.

"mum, whats a tsbd." "where did you get that from? eat your dinner dear." "mum, thats what it says here. look...President Kennedy was shot from the tsbd. whats a tsbd?" "ah..well...I see..um thats the Texas School Book Depository..T..S..B..D.. see?" "oh OK.." .... "mum...whats the Texas School Book de..dep...sitry?" "Depository, dear. It's a building. It's next to where Kennedy was shot" "yes mum... thats what it says here. but what is it?" "honey it's a building." "but.." "Look, OK. It's a building, all right? ..It's a depository...that's like a place where they put things. They put school books there and it's in Texas. OK. Don't forget your peas.." "oh...ok..." .... "mum?... is it just Texas school books. And why do they put them there?" "er...hmmm...I'dunno I suppose it's just school books...and they put them there to sort them out before sending them out to schools." ... "mum, do my school books come from the Texas School Books Depository?" "heh...honey we're not in Texas...what's that got to do with your books..OK. now finish up .... 'nuff babbling..off to school" ____________________________________________________ "Hey chip..bet you don't know what the tsbd is!"............. ____________________________________________________ Well, bugger me, I don't know what the TSBD is either. A search reveals some interesting things.... "a seven-story building leased to the Texas School Book Depository, which shipped schoolbooks in the southwest." from mcadams site: "On July 4, 1939, oil tycoon Colonel D. Harold Byrd purchased the building at public auction. Byrd's career included co-founding the Civil Air Patrol and funding his explorer cousin, Admiral Richard E. Byrd, who named an Antarctic mountain range after the Colonel..... The building remained vacant until 1940, when the John Sexton Co... the grocery wholesaler leased it... ... The building, which displayed the company's name in large letters just above the sixth floor, became familiar locally as the Sexton Building... After Sexton, renovations at the Depository included partitions, carpeting and air-conditioning for office suites up to the fourth, plus a new passenger elevator that went only as far as the fourth floor. The Texas School Book Depository, (a privately-owned company charged with fulfilling book orders from schools all over the Southwest, incorporated in 1927) kept its stock in the basement, first floor and fourth through seventh floors. In 1963, the year the company consolidated most of its operation in the former Sexton Building, it employed 33 workers, including 19 warehouse men, of whom four remained at the old warehouse at 1917 N. Houston Street, a few blocks north. ... After the move, it was noticed that the upper floors had become oil-soaked from items which Sexton had stored, and the oil threatened to penetrate the cardboard of the Depository's book cartons. To remedy (this) a process to cover the upper floors with plywood sheets began, which necessitated moving certain amounts of the cartons over one or two aisles to allow the floor-laying crew access. Just before the November '63, work had begun along the west side of the sixth floor, leaving the whole scene in disarray, with stock shifted as far as the east wall, and stacks in between piled high. After the assassination, the reflooring project was completed on the sixth floor. The original floor surface.. remained concealed for 25 years until the plywood was lifted to prepare a reconstruction. Floor markings were the same as in photos taken the assassination weekend... ...The building's owner, Colonel Byrd, reportedly had the 'Sniper's Nest' window removed six weeks after the assassination. Byrd exhibited it like a trophy in the banquet room of his Vassar Street mansion until his death in 1986. In 1994, son Caruth loaned the window to the Sixth Floor Museum where it has been displayed behind protective glass ever since. However, there is a controversy that Byrd had the wrong window removed, and that the original 'sniper's nest' windows were removed by one-time owner Aubrey Mayhew... " OK that's a rough sketch of the building as a schoolbook depository. It's a COMPANY that's called 'The Texas School Book Depository'. This company put its name on the building known as the 'Sexton building'. Thereafter it became known as the TSBD.

The recent discussion about Che' is helpful in explaining what I was getting at here. Cause and effect. I think Kennedy, like Che', had a sense of who he was in history. Jackies comments after the assassination "he didn't even have the satisfaction of being killed for civil rights" bears that out. I think people who have this sense make deciscions that carry risks. The measure of them as people is why they choose to do what may lead to death. Thus their death itself is something that even the assassins cannot control. The assassin fulfuls a role that The assassinated factors into the equation. "this is the world you live in, its up to you now to deal with it, may my life, and death, show what humanity is capable of" This is something that the 'scum' who kills these sort of people can never overcome.

In his motorcycle diaries, Che' talks about an old principle of describing history: objectively and without embellishment. An objective description of the truth is sufficient to capture the reality. Combine this with his principles and what else could he do? He lived his truth. I don't think he ever held a gun against anyones head and said that they must live his truth. I think that's what conscience is for. In fighting and dying as he did he makes a statement about the reality of the world we live in. In a way he then provides a road sign for those who wish to follow. Thus his death may serve to further future success to the next Che'. What else could a Che' do? Che' quotes Jose' Marti' : "the best form of saying is doing."

Tom, not quite sure what you are getting at here. A perusal of online version of book *: http://www.online-literature.com/dostoevsky/idiot/ doesn't make it clear. It's a great piece of literature. Some say the best of Dostoyevsky. I can see relevance to giving to Oswald. It dispells naivitee and explains the Russian mind. On the other hand it can be seen as a 'fascist' document that, to those already so inclined, describes a futility of christian morality. Overall it doesn't seem significant. Is it? Another point: the use of "to defect" seems interesting? Isn't it government people and such like that "defect". Ordinary citizens emigrate. Or maybe the two were interchangeable back then? (*seems a good site for searchable classics)

Truth, evidence, etc ultimately stands on its own merit. NOT on the opinions of anyone. Any real contributions by Joan Mellen and anyone else will stand the test of time. Likewise any uninformed attempts to bash will end up as a footnote in the dustbins of history. One thing that can be said is that the bashing and defending contributes to focusing on this area of research, which to those interested in it is surely a bonus. For those like myself (likely a minority) who are focusing elsewhere it has served to divert attention for some days now from other issues. When looking back to pre 'hysteria' days a couple of weeks ago I note that there were an increasing number of posts and attention given to domestic issues. There's an almost monolithic force that coalesces (pro con forces join) to drive the attention back to the conspiracy which I suggest IS the conspiracy itself. ( I'm not suggesting that people are deliberate members of this conspiracy. Not at all. Just people being people, seeking the easiest path, like water to the sea. Problem here is that the water was diverted first back in 63/64 and this man made leve' has now become an unquestioned unassailable 'natural' feature of the landscape.)

John; The "balls" of the matter are difficult for most to swallow! That being, that there was only a single/lone assassin, and to an extremely high degree of certainty, that assassin was LHO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is irrelevant as to whether one thinks "outside the box" to resolve the issues of this matter, however, in event that they do not take off their "blinders" and recognize that there are many and varied motives for all the items which they wish to combine into one "GIANT" conspiracy theory, then it all probability, they will still be lost 42 years from now as well. ________________________________________________________________________________ _________ (to be called ingnorant is not necessarily an insult. Tom demonstrates a degree of preciscion that makes it possible to take it just as a statement of fact. As Gerry suggests, different languages express things differently. Ignorance in strict definition is just lack of knowledge. Hanging on to conclusions based on ignorance in the face of knowledge is something else entirely (stupidity? : not perhaps all that simple, I think there are degrees of attachments and ego that need to be factored in, but for someone earnestly looking for truth, time deals with) Tom, ok, let's assume this is correct: (I'm not 'arguing' for arguments sake, just trying to understand exactly what you're getting at) Is there a conspiracy here? WHAT was Garrison leading anyone away from? And my initial question was really : (if there was/is a conspiracy of some kind), why do those pointing in the right direction get away with doing so today, when for Garrison it was a matter of life and death. What has changed?

GPH and John, Very interesting thread. There are isues when utilizing a supressor and subsonic ammunition in a rifle that will give the shot origin a realistic invisible existence but will also make the POA v. POI a near rediculous plan of action. Due to the compromised trajectory at even this close of range, it would take considerable practice and adjustments to the optics settings as well as the human factor on the moving target. I will comment further on this later. GPH, I found it interesting that you have mentioned Sandoval-Alarcon in your thread. Am I misreading it when I assume you know my affiliation with his group some twenty-plus years ago? The last person on a forum who made the connection (Tosh on Lancer) stopped posting immediately thereafter. If I would have had the maturity I have now then, I would have eliminated the barbarian and his group then instead of providing a safety net for them from 2-400m back in '81. Maybe I am misreading your post. If not, provide the op-designation I was given then and I will know where we stand. Al Al, looking forward to it. logging some more info. Apart from sightplane bore axis mostly complete sans corrections So far:: RANGE CONDITIONS The weather bureau recorded winds in Dallas on November 1963, as ranging only between 13 knots and 17 knots, which is roughly equal to 15 to 20 miles per hour.** -Noon temperature.?? At 12:40 PM this sign displayed an ambient temperature of 65F [5 HSCA 643]. At this temperature the speed of sound in air is 1123 ft/sec. -Pressure in Hg.?? est 30" -Humidity %rel?? 60% GUN / CARTRIDGE DATA (With MC in mind) Bullet: 6.5 X 52 cartridge -Ballistic coefficient. - approximately .275 -Sectional density.?? -Rifle: Distance from sight plane to bore axis.?? Anmgle between bore axis and sight plane - estimated 0.8 degrees, estimated near zero 10.7 feet (1 in 81/2" to 1 in 10" turn twist1 turn in7" twist)?? Gun/Lot : -Muzzle velocity. - 2038fps (+/- ? ft/s)))? ___________________

Thank you very much!!!!!!!! Had Garrison even hinted at pointing the finger at Carlos or any of his organization, the next time anyone would have seen Garrison would be if and when he turned up in the net of one of the shrimp trawlers off shore. Rest assured, Garrison was not stupid. Shaw, former OSS Agent, and still working in and for the "Stolen Art" recovery section, was a complete outsider to the New Orleans power structure. In fact, he made many of those who had acquired pieces of this artwork (N.O. Aristocracy") quite nervous. Therefore, the Garrison Side Show and Circus Act actually provided several functions: As you have stated, N. O. was Garrison's home for a considerable length of time, therefore he most assuredly knew, as they say, "who's zooming who". With Maumus Claverie and Louis B. Claverie being some on New Orleans top echelon attornies, Garrison was not about to "touch" the Claverie family line. Especially since Louis B. was a member of one of the formost law firms in New Orleans. With Marguerite Claverie's sister being married to a minor player in the N. O. (non-existant organized crime element) (according to Garrison), certainly can not pursue this line of investigation either. With about 60% to 70% of the upper echelon of New Orleans society being direct descendents of Confederate Soldiers, certainly can not pursue this avenue either. With Carlos & organization more than willing to sink you in the bayou, better leave this one alone also. With Leander Perez being a former Judge and one of the local Political leaders of great power, best not mention his name and the fact that he ran one of the single most anti-racial and radical elements of N. O. and Southern society. That left about only me and Clay Shaw, and I was out of town! Tom P.S. Marcello "ran" exactly what the wealth and power of New Orleans allowed him to run. Tom, granted you certainly have knowledge in this far far exceeding mine. I'm curious about what's changed since those days? Why aren't you or anyone else going for the balls of the matter here, sleeping with the fishes today?

Griffin is a paranoid fool who doesn't know what he is talking about. In case you missed the tread on the subject there is a grand total of ZERO civil engineers or architects who believe that the towers were demo'd, only a handful of scientists say they believe this but none of them have degrees in relevant subjects. Did Bush know the attacks were coming but intentionally do nothing? Unlikely but possible. Did Bush or people in his administration set up 9/11? Possible but even less probable! Where the Twin Towers felled by controlled demolition? Impossible. Even Chomsky and Cockburn reject such CT's. The short list of comparable atrocities will do As noted, this thread is about something else. I deliberately have not weighed in on this 9/11 thingy. I switched from civ eng at uni in second year to geology-anthropology, and that was a loong time ago. (then dropped out and joined the sya). So, just a very little bit of technical background. But for those who think it was a controlled demolition: A perfect job wouldn't you say? Twice. No guarantee of perfection of course, particularly the taller the structure. So, why bother to attempt the almost impossible perfection? I think the usual reasons for controlled demolitions are to minimise property and people damage, while saving costs. I suggest reverse engineering the whole thing. Hand structure over to dem experts and see if they can develop and rate a plan. I suggest that it would come down to degrees of property and people damage. If so the whole conspiracy angle does seem a mite paranoid.

Thank you Gerry, the picture is fleshing out nicely with the 'hands on', practical background. I wonder from where would you have picked as absolute IDEAL location of best shot in Dealey Plaza? It's probably hard to not use hind sight, but if one pictures self pre 11/22 with no certainty of success, with a gun/load/range knowledge available at the time? _____________________________________ Another thing brought to mind re. earwitnessing and hence 'those in the know considerations' is from a post by Gerry where he says 'watch your 6'. I assume this means watch your ass or watch out at six o'clock. In the beginning of the second world war prior to dunkirk the british air force was much influenced by old thought. Meanwhile, planes had gotten faster, and the Luftwaffe had experience in Spain with the new generation planes. Reaction to being fired upon becomes critical. There was an american volunteer with experience in the China theatre who contributed something important. He asked the squadron to pose for a group photo. Behind the group he had a man with a gun waiting for a signal. Just as the photo was taken the gun was fired. The photo was shown. Half of the group had been standing to the front-left of the gun, half front-right. However, ALL of the group had reacted by looking over their RIGHT shoulder. The germans knew this and it explained some of their success. They had taken to sneaking up on the left and firing, knowing that the British pilots would check right rear. So: yes watch your 6, but don't neglect 7. Apart from the difficulties regarding elevation and tracking perhaps one good location would have been records building?

The wiegman film while fairly contiguous is chopped up by lots of changes in location and fast pans creating blurred segments. In between there are lots of interesting things. This appears to me to be an attempt to catch something relevant. Obviously an awareness of assassination attempt. One thing that stands out to me is that there appeaars to be NO attempt to capture anything in the direction of the TSBD. IF this person had any hint of a shot from there it seems to me that an attempt at least would have been to film in that direction. ..Interesting 'testimony'. In this scene towards the end of the film, where the filmer has jumped car and stands next to lamp pole panning and filming short sections of lots of different scenes. , one can see various figures , including Rosemary in position as last seen in Z and others. Larger size at: http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c168/yan.../wiegmanone.jpg