Thomas Graves

Mikey, I've got a sneakin' hunch Armstrong's got a nice big office in that special building in Saint Petersburg, Russia. You know, the one that has one thousand or so Putin-controlled t-r-o-l-l-s working in it, in three shifts 'round the clock, churning out "Fake News" for both the Alt-Right and the Alt-Left, in a dialectically-divisive, "National Security State" versus "Deep State" engendering kind of way? (lol) -- Tommy

Dear Mike, Looks like there are some words missing from the middle of that Larry Hancock quotation. Could you please fill it in and make it whole? Thank you! -- Tommy PS It does look like an important post, btw, Mike.

Dear Andrej Hogwash. For all we know Lovelady reacted exactly the way you say a person reacts to something "startling" but it wasn't caught on film by the rapidly- "panning" Weigman. I agree with Robin Unger on this -- Lovelady does not step down, he leans forward. Wouldn't Lovelady's alleged stepping down towards the loud sound contradict your otherwise brilliant analysis and description of what his "startle reaction" was? Or are you claiming that the first shot hadn't even rung out yet when he "stepped down"? -- Tommy

Mike, Lithe and athletic "Running Woman On Elm Street Extension," whoever she was, could have been yelling out, "See you at 5 o'clock, Lover Boy!" to those two used car salesmen, for all I know. Regardless, it has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that Sandy Larsen's (and my) Real-Deal Lovelady is talking with Real-Deal Gloria "Big-Girl-Dressed-In-Black" Calvery on the steps in James Darnell's clip. Seein' as how I haven't even read your second paragraph yet, there are probably more of my comments to come on your post. Just thought I'd warn you. -- Tommy

Dear Ray, Well, do you understand now? If so, then you're very welcome indeed. If not, then I'm afraid I can't help you. Cheers, -- Tommy

Dear Mr. Andrej Stancak, Since I'm not all "techno-geeked up" and therefore don't think in terms of milliseconds (lol) about this particular sub-subject, I'm not going to go into this with y'all in any great detail. Suffice it to say that my "scientifically-sloppy" little theory here is based on the following evidence-based observations and assumptions: 1 ) Red-shirted Lovelady was standing next to the left wall (near his soda pop / lunch ?) in that segment of Hughes which shows the limo turning (or getting ready to turn? -- going from memory here) left onto Elm Street. 2 ) A few seconds later, as shown in the larger of the two Weigman frames in the two-frame GIF (i.e., the one with the two cars in the foreground and in which Billy is still standing upright), Lovelady has "departed from" that wall (leaving his precious soda pop / lunch unattended !?) and moved a few feet away to his left so that he can get a better view from the center hand railing (which hand railing prevented him from going even farther to his left and getting an even better view). 3 ) Still standing next to the center hand railing in the other frame of two-frame GIF, Lovelady in now leaning forward (as is Doorman-Lovelady in Altgens6), having evidently heard a shot or a shout or a scream (as, interestingly enough, has "Prayer Person" heard said shot or shout or scream as indicated by his or her lowering his-or-her camera from his-or-her face in order to better see what the heck's goin' on around him-or-her). Having said all of that, I suppose you want to know why Lovelady decided to lean forward? Well, although Lovelady's leaning forward probably didn't help him to see or hear any better what was goin' on down on Elm Street, I believe that it was a normal human reaction in that situation the sound of a shot or a shout or a scream, and that leaning forward like that might even have been his (unconscious?) way of "pointing out" to the other people on the steps that "Hey! Somethin's happenin' here, what it is ain't exactly clear, could there be a man wit a gun over there?" in this particular Altgens6-correlated Weigman frame (i.e., the one without the cars in the foreground). To answer your question in a very roundabout and scientifically-sloppy (but at least non-geeky) way. -- Tommy

Guys, I don't know if what I have to say is germane to your conversation, but you do realize don't you that the Weigman frame (above, in an earlier post) in which Lovelady is leaning forward equates time-wise to Altgens 6? Yes, Altgens 6, in which Cinque's / Fetzer's "Doorman / Oswald" is actually Billy Nolan Lovelady, who, having heard the first shot ring out and / or some shouting down the street, is leaning forward near the center handrail (having moved to that position from the left wall just a few seconds earlier), leaning forward, I say (not going down one step), in order to "get a better view" of and / or "hear more clearly" what the heck was going on down there on Elm Street? -- Tommy

Dear Ray, If so, you do realize don't you that the top photo (Z-frame, actually) was taken just before the assassination while (from left to right) Jacob, Holt, and Simmons were standing on the Elm Street sidewalk, whereas the bottom photo (frame from a short Darnell clip, actually) was taken after the assassination while (from left to right) Jacob, Holt, and Simmons were walking back up said sidewalk, towards their workplace and "sanctuary," the TSBD? -- Tommy

Ray, Do you mean these 'uns? -- Tommy

Gosh, Ray Are ya talkin' about photos on this thread, or some other thread? Could you please post 'em here? Thanks! -- Tommy

Dear Mike, Don't you realize that if Robin's "Calvary, Hicks, and Reed" on the north side of Elm Street were actually other people entirely (e.g. Jacob, Holt, and Simmons), then that would mean that Gloria Calvery, a person who happens to be important, timing-wise, in helping us to determine which of Shelley's and Lovelady's varying statements / testimonies are closest to reality, had to have been somewhere else during the motorcade, and that if Calvery, based on the her high school and wedding photographs (as well as upon where and with whom she claimed to have been standing, etc) can be spotted in the photographic images taken during the motorcade, then we would have a good idea not only about her relative proximity to the TSBD during the motorcade, but also about her physical size and the clothing she was wearing that day (all of which has a direct bearing on whether on not the lithe "Running Woman" running down the Elm Street Extension in Couch-Darnell could have been her), and would also make Calvery much easier to spot in the photos and films taken, say, 30 seconds or so after the assassination? And perhaps most importantly, whether or not she interacted with anybody (e.g. Shelley and / or Lovelady ?) on her way back to her workplace and "sanctuary," the TSBD? -- Tommy PS Why do you have to keep butting in on threads you "aren't interested in"? Do you crave attention or something? Go rain on your own parade, not mine.

Good point, Michael! -- Tommy

Mike, I haven't really read this thread yet, just skimmed over it a little bit to see what it's all about, but when I read the first sentence of your post (this one, right here), I thought I'd better mention to you Jon G. Tidd's idea that a kind of "Two Oswalds" project might have started right after the guy ("Harvey" ? i.e., the guy who was killed by Jack Ruby on 11/24/6) entered the Marine Corps in 1956 (or was it 1957?), and that the bad guys might have fabricated and "retrofitted" good guy "Harvey's" and bad guy "Lee's" childhoods, document-wise, to make it look like they were one-and-the-same person going back to 1947, or so. This theory of Mr Tidd's is a lot easier for me "to swallow" than the full-on "Harvey and Lee and the Two Marguerites" theory that you, Tracy, Jeremy, and I have been arguing against. -- Tommy

Well put, Mike. Quite civilized, IMHO. -- Tommy

Robin, Sure, go ahead and try to ignore the (to me) obvious "American Indian" dark-complexion and facial features of your "Gloria Calvary" in the short Darnnel clip, below, and the fact that your "Karan Hicks" in said Darnell clip looks just like Gloria Jeanne Holt in her 1963 high school photograph, and the fact that TSBD co-workers Stella Jacob, Gloria Holt, and Sharon Simmons all said in their FBI statements that they were standing only with each other (making a total of only three (3) people in their little group, and that your "Calvary" "Hicks" "Reed" can be seen standing very close to each other in the Z-Film and other photos / films taken during the motorcade, and the fact that just the three (3) and only three (3) of them were photographically "caught" walking with each other, you know, just the three (3) of them, on the sidewalk by Darnell in that short clip of his. Regardless, do you really still think that your (and Speth's and Roberdeau's) "Calvary, Hicks, and Reed" were the "real deal" Gloria Calvery, Karan Hicks, and Carol Reed? Or are are a few doubts starting to creep in? LOL -- Tommy PS Here's a frame from that short Darnell clip.

edited and bumped

And you accuse Jeremy of being sarcastic? What a hypocritically bad joke you are, josephs. -- Tommy

Robin, Stella May Jacob was a self-described "Indian female" born in some town in Oklahoma. If you feel like researching that, let us know what you find out. But why? Why is it necessary? If her high school photographs can't be found, would that somehow invalidate my identification of Jacob, Holt, and Reed in that mis-labeled Z-Frame you Speth, and Roberdeau apparently collaborated on, etc? The "Gloria Calvary" you and Speth and Roberdeau "identified" on Elm Street, just happens to look (unlike the real Gloria Calvery does in her high school photographs) like a (dark-complected) "Indian female," and the "Karan Hicks" your "Gloria Calvary" is walking with in that short Darnell clip just happens to be a "dead ringer" for the Gloria Holt / Gloria Jeanne Holt in her 1962 and 1963 high school photographs, don't you agree? -- Tommy PS You're welcome

Bollocks, joseph. -- Tommy

More hot, steamin', stinkin' ... uh ..... "spaghetti" (Commonly found on the walls in mental hospitals, I'm told.) -- Tommy

Nice non-answer there, Bartie. Likewise -- Tommy

Robin, In the United States of America, high school students tend to graduate in June, iirc. (lol - Yes, it was a long, long time ago for me.) So, Gloria Jeanne Holt graduated in June of 1963 and was working at the TSBD five months later when JFK was assassinated before her eyes -- on November 22, 1963, I believe. That work for you? -- Tommy Oh, and in her statement to the FBI she did say that she was born in 1945, and that she had started working at the TSBD in July, 1963. [click on this link, press "ctrl" + "F", type the word holt in the little drop-down thingy in the upper right hand corner if you want to find her statement quickly. Otherwise, do it the old-fashioned way, and you'll find it on page "43"] https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1381.pdf

Thanks for bumping it for me, Robin. -- Tommy