William Kelly

We may soon be able to prove that Oswald's defection was an intelligence operation - as I have appealed to the Sec of the Air Force my FOIA requests for the passenger manifests for the MATs flights out of McGuire AFB for Oct 1959, when a USMC in uniform allegedly flew to Europe on a special mission.

You can read the HSCA story of Mrs. Louise Steenbarger and her son David and a uniformed USMC named Lee Oswald - from New Orleans, father named Robert E. Oswald, stationed in Japan, got in trouble over a women, mother a problem - sounds like our boy doesn't it?

While the AF is looking for the passenger manifests I have tried to locate Mrs. Steenbarger and her son David and they both appear to be still living, her near her original home and him in Dayton, Ohio - teaching math at community college. But the phone numbers I got for them don't work.

If anyone out there has the time and inclination to locate these people I'd like to talk to them.

Send me details PM or email if you locate them or find an obit.

BK

Sorry about the typos and the dupe edit but my laptop is down and I'm working from my IPhone -

But if you read or see the film Spy Come In From the Cold - such field operatives are only given what they need and untraceable funds - Veciana was given job at American embassy but also had a covert salary that Phillips kept in bank account until he parted with his agent after a decade - and gave him the full account in cash $200,000 + when he was promoted to the desk job of Chief of Western Hemisphere Division - # 3 position in the CIA - with unlimited access to covert unaccountable funds.

The spy in Le Clare's book was given jobs by going through ciivil employment agency - by an agent who worked there - just as Oswald got job at Jaggers-Chiles-Stoval from wife of FBI agent whose sons broke into the Vegas apartment of Judy Campbell Extner.

Oswald always had the cash he needed to do what he was required to do.

David Atlee Phillips' book on Occupations in Intelligence and Nightwatch also demonstrates how such operatives are paid,

BK

Once again: The evidence allows speculation that Oswald might have had US intelligence connections. It does not rise to the level of certainty.

If you aren't certain Oswald was a covert operative just knowing his basic background - then you are only fooling yourself.

If it looks like a duck, walks like one, quacks like one - it's a duck.

Oswald was trained by the Civil Air Patrol and USMC, and such specialties as radar, electronics, communications and the Russian language, he used PO boxes, kept an apartment away from his family, used codes, ciphers, intelligence trade craft and counter - surveillance techniques that he utilized in the aftermath of the assassination.

He had intelligence associations with numerous others - deMornschildt-Paines-Phillips - all with intelligence agency connections - a domestic intelligence network that is only now being exposed - and one that is still functioning today.

Oswald was also associated with a number of other covet ops - including his defection, the Houma Arms bunker raid, the Walker shooting, the FPCC, the DRE in New Orleans and the Mexico City operation, each of which tells us something about him - he was not crazy or deranged and as all of the CI investigations have concluded - was not capable of committing the assassination alone, was not a shooter and as the evidence indicates - was probably framed as the patsy as he claimed to be.

Now I don't believe he was set up by Clay Shaw, David Ferrie and the New Orleans Yahoos who did the Houma Bunker raid - the Dealey Plaza Operation was a real slick job set up as a Northwinds type operation to blame Castro, a disinformation op only JFK's enemies in Washington and the Pentagon were capable of pulling off.

If you believe Oswald the psycho motivated lone nut assassin you can go home - or content yourself with your beliefs, but if you recognize Oswald for what he is - a Covert Operational Personality profile - and that the assassination was a covert intel op by a domestic intel network then you can participate in the Counter-Intelligence investigation that must be conducted to expose and counter that network.

This must be done for reasons of national security, the same reason the government is using to deny us the records they continue to with hold to protect that network.

BK

Once again: The evidence allows speculation that Oswald might have had US intelligence connections. It does not rise to the level of certainty.

If you aren't certain Oswald was a covert operative just knowing just his basic background - then you are only fooling yourself.

If it looks like one, walks like one, quacks like one - it's a duck.

Oswald was trained by the Civil Air Patrol and USMC, and such specialties as radar, electronics, communications and the Russian language, he used PO boxes, kept an apartment away from his family, used codes, ciphers, intelligence trade craft and counter - surveillance techniques that he utilized in the aftermath of the asElmer Jenkins, had organized the assassination. He also

named Rafael (Chi Chi) Quintero as one of the gunman. Up until that time

Jenkins name hadsassination. He had intelligence associations with numerous others - deMornschildt-Paines-Phillips - all with intelligence agency connections - a domestic intelligence network that is only now being exposed - and one that is still functioning today.

Oswald was also associated with a number of other covet ops - including his defection, the Houma Arms bunker raid, the Walker shooting, the FPCC, the DRE in New Orleans and the Mexico City operation, each of which tells us something about him - he was not crazy or deranged and as all of the CI investigations have concluded - was not capable of committing the assassination alone, was not a shooter and as the evidence indicates - was probably framed as the patsy as he claimed to be.

Now I don't believe he was set up by Clay Shaw, David Ferrie and the New Orleans Yahoos who did the Houma Bunker raid - the Dealey Plaza Operation was a real slick job set up as a Northwinds type operation to blame Castro, a disinformation op only JFK's enemies in Washington and the Pentagon were capable of pulling off.

If you believe Oswald the psycho motivated lone nut assassin you can go home - or content yourself with your beliefs, but if you recognize Oswald for what he is - a Covert Operational Personality profile - and that the assassination was a covert intel op by a domestic intel network then you can participate in the Counter-Intelligence investigation that must be conducted to expose and counter that network.

This must be done for reasons of national security, the same reason the government is using to deny us the records they continue to with hold to protect that network.

BK

When the Secret Service commissioned a study of assassins and those who have attacked a president they categorized Oswald as a Lone Nut and did not even consider what I call the Covert Operational Personality - COP profile.

Whether Oswald was the lone wolf assassin or a patsy in a bigger scheme - it really doesn't matter, because he fits the COP personality, then whatever you believe happened at Dealey Plaza was a Covert Intelligence Operation and can only be uncovered by a proper Counter-Intelligence investigation by trained CI investigators -,and we have them.

John Tidd, who started this thread, Michael Griffith and John Newman are all such CI trained analysts - and Newman's AARC Conference presentation (posted at CSPAN and transcript at Joe Backes' JusticeforJFK blog) emphasizes not only the need to understand covert operational techniques but to figure out the codes and ciphers used by the players involved.

Peter Dale Scott also wrote about the need to know the nomenclature of the Deep Political covert underworld and I began to try to keep a list of the most relevant ones, as Larry Hancock, John Newman and others have also done.

As Oswald's background became known to the world - Civil Air Patrol, USMC, trained in Russian language (possibly at Monterey Defense Language Institute), defector to USSR, returns with Russian wife, works at J/C/S graphics, FPFC, arrested with DRE, visits Cuban and Russian embassies in Mexico City, accused assassin of president who possibly took shot at Gen. Walker - every CI - intelligence analyst in every country in the world recognized Oswald for what he was - a covert intelligence operator and an agent, asset or operative of some national intelligence network.

BK

Rebooting this thread.

So despite saying on the plane he did not want to meet with Ball LBJ met him and Harriman at Andrews - I stand corrected.

Now follow LBJ and Moyers and Carter and Valenti to the EOB and what do they do there?

They call Texas Attorney General and Dallas DA and tell them NOT to charge Oswald with conspiracy - which is what Joe Goulden was trying to get them to do - then they ride around DC for an hour in a car before going to the Elms - LBJ's house.

The Lone Assassin scenario deal was sealed at the EOB not AF1 - or the Situation Room - as the assassination was supposed to be a communist conspiracy as it was planned.

Blaming the assassination on WASPs is like blaming the murder on protestants.

There's also a book - Nerve Center - a history of the White House Situation Room - Cliff said Bundy in charge there - he was not - Maj. Harold Patterson aka "Stranger" - was - and as soon as I got his name off the Clifton tapes I located him, called him on the phone and talked with him for about an hour. He had not heard the tapes but confirmed he was in charge of Sit Room as senior officer, Bundy came and went, and the code book on the cabinet plane was missing.

As for Ball - the tapes reflect the fact that LBJ did NOT want to meet with Ball when he got back - but Ball and Bundy did meet him at Andrews - and LBJ talked to Harriman on the phone - probably from EOB office.

BK

What was the address - the Dallas skyscraper where Walker's office was located?

Thanks

BK

So where do you get it?

Not off the tapes. Its not there.

Salandria?

White?

Salinger?

Bishop?

Manchester?

The Situation Room says it is getting its info "off the ticker," - the wire services and radio, and if you listen to the tapes, Bundy is not calling the shots - issuing instructions and orders - generals are.

We will be reviewing the AF1 radio tapes in depth soon and anyone can contribute - but you have to at least be familiar with what we have done so far and not drag us back to square one - though maybe thats where we should start to bring everybody to the same page.

BK

Thanks for the report from Dallas Larry, I'm glad there is growing interest in the AF1 tapes and what they tell us.

And while I agree with Paul - thanks for reading my stuff Paul - I agree that there's something fishy going on - I also agree with Larry in that we have to work with the evidence we have and not what we wish we had.

It seems to me that LeMay was on vacation and taken by surprise by the assassination, and his deputy - Col. Dorman ultimately lost his life as a result of the assassination as a fighter pilot in Vietnam.

And it appears there is no record of Bundy telling AF1 that Oswald was the assassin and there was mo conspiracy, though he may have, based on the news reports from Dallas.

There is evidence on the tapes that Navy officer Oliver Hallett did communicate with the cabinet plane and AF1 from the Situation Room and he was acquainted with Oswald having served as the.Navy attache at the US embassy in Moscow when Oswald defected. Hallett's wife was Snyder's receptionist and met Oswald. To me that is more astounding than the Bundy allegations.

There are a number of other important issues that will be addressed soon.

BK

Thanks for pointing this out and it is certainly worth looking into but the basic facts have to be corrected in some details.

MY COMMENTS IN CAPS

This was posted on my Facebook page today:

Rod Serling authored the 1963 motion picture, Seven Days in May about a military conspiracy to overthrow the presidency

BK: ROD SERLING MAY HAVE HAD A HAND IN THE WRITING OF THE FILM SCRIPT OF SEVEN DAYS IN MAY - WHICH JFK PERMITTED TO BE FILMED IN THE WHITE HOUSE WHEN HE WASN'T THERE - BUT THE NOVEL WAS WRITTEN BY FLETCHER NEBAL, A DAYTON, OHIO NATIVE AND LIFE LONG JOURNALIST - AND A CO-AUTHOR - CHARLES BAILEY - ALSO A LIFELONG JOURNALIST -

and had his award-winning series, The Twilight Zone, cancelled by CBS

NOT TRUE -

within months of his writing a letter critical of the reported findings of the President's Commission on the Assassination of President John F.
Kennedy.

THE LETTERS ALLEGEDLY WRITTEN BY ROD SERLING TO THE WARREN COMMISSION INCLUDED HIS CORRECT STUDIO ADDRESS WERE DENIED BY SERLING - WHO DID ATTEND ANTIOCH COLLEGE IN YELLOW SPRINGS, OHIO, AS DID RUTH PAINE - AND I -

THE SERLING LETTERS WERE FORGED -

whose chief architect of various fictions was Allen Dulles, the CIA Director JFK had fired. and senior partner at New York Wall Street transnational corporate law firm, Sullivan and Cromwell, where he also managed the financial portfolio of CBS Television chairman, William Paley.

THE CHIEF CBS CONNECTION TO THE WARREN COMMISSION IS THE DAUGHTER OF JOHN J. MCCLOY -

A year later, as Lyndon Johnson,the Joint Chiefs and CIA committed to putting combat troops into Vietnam,

LBJ, THE JCS AND THE CIA NEVER AGREED ON ANYTHING

Serling scripted a movie for ABC Television titled A Carol For Another Christmas, an anti-war plea for cooperation between nations, starring Sterling Hayden, Peter Sellers, and an all-star cast, the only TV movie ever directed by Joseph Mankiewicz. It aired once and then was suppressed for 48 years

http://free-classic-tv-shows.com/History/1964-12-28-Carol-For-Another-Christmas/index.php#.VHErYmctCM8

ROD SERLING DID PRODUCE A NUMBER OF SIGNIFICANT TWILIGHT ZONE SHOWS THAT FEATURED FIDEL CASTRO - ONE IN A HOTEL ROOM AFTER THE SUCCESS OF THE REVOLUTION -

SEVEN DAYS IN MAY - THE MOVIE - INCLUDED BURT LANCASTER - WHO ALSO STARED IN THE JFK ASSASSINATION THRILLER EXECUTIVE ACTION - AND SINATRA'S WIFE AVA GARDNER - AND WAS DIRECTED BY JOHN FRANKENHEIMER, WHO ALSO DIRECTED EXECUTIVE ACTION -

THE AUTHOR OF THE BOGUS ROD SERLING LETTERS CAN AND SHOULD BE POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED -

ALSO SEE: Rod Serling and the JFK Assassination - JFK Assassination Debate - The Education Forum

BILL KELLY

Well I don't know what happened at the Dallas LANCER conference on this subject but I think it's important to delve into it - and will do what I can to focus on all of the serious issues regarding the AF1 Radio Tapes.

I'm on the same page with Larry on the Bundy and the AF1 tapes, but agree with Cliff that we have to run down every lead to the hilt and not just abandon one line of inquiry when we realize it is a dead end alley, as there's a lot to be learned from dead end alleys.

More to come on this,

BK

Larry, Thanks for starting this thread:

Here's the Deep Background - the links to the blog posts I've made on the AF1 Radio Tapes over the past few years:

JFKcountercoup: The Air Force One Radio Tapes Update - The Story Thus Far

JFKcountercoup: The Watchman at Dealey Plaza

JFKcountercoup: Air Force One Radio Tapes Get Media Play

50 Reasons For 50 Years - Episode 47 - YouTube

JFKcountercoup: Combined Air Force One Radio Tapes Transcript (Annotated) D7

JFKcountercoup: Air Force One Radio Transmissions Combined Transcript /Annotated

JFKcountercoup: Synopsis - Wecht Conference Presentation on AF1 Radio Tapes

JFKcountercoup: AF1 Tapes - Estimated Time Excised - Trimble AAR

JFKcountercoup: Andrews Log 11/22/63 Salvaged from Trash

JFKCountercoup2: Index to JFKCC Blog Entries on AF1 Radio Tapes

JFKCountercoup2: Air Force One Radio Communications Links

JFKcountercoup: The Air Force One Radio Tapes Update - The Story Thus Far

JFKCountercoup2: AF1 Radio Tapes Combined P-Hi-Fi Version Parts 1-8

JFKCountercoup2: The Swearing In on AF1 - Re-evaluated

JFKCountercoup2: Interview with Gen. Curtis LeMay

JFKCountercoup2: James P. Sawa visits Air Force One

JFKCountercoup2: General LeMay and Arthur Collins of Collins Radio

JFKCountercoup2: The Final Report of the ARRB on WHCA

JFKCountercoup2: Watchman - Gen. Chester Clifton

JFKCountercoup2: DOD Response to Manchester's Book

JFKCountercoup2: Oliver Hallet USN

JFKCountercoup2: Oliver Sawyer Hallet

JFKCountercoup2: Salinger on CSPAN w/Lamb

JFKCountercoup2: Robert Manning on 86972

JFKCountercoup2: Aboard the Cabinet Plane 86972

JFKCountercoup2: Raab on Clifton Tape

JFKCountercoup2: Salandria's Tale of the Tapes II

JFKCountercoup2: Charlie Channel Tape Missing

JFKCountercoup2: Press Reports on Discovery of Clifton Air Force One Tapes

JFKCountercoup2: THE AF1 TAPES AND SUBSEQUENT EVENTS

JFKCountercoup2: Castro Says CIA Uses Raider Ship

JFKCountercoup2: Official Air Force One radio traffic transcript

JFKCountercoup2: Combined Air Force One Radio Transcript - Annotated

JFKCountercoup2: Notes Re: Combined AF1 Radio Tape Transcripts

JFKCountercoup2: A 1 - Air Force One Transcript Codes, Characters

JFKCountercoup2: A 2 - Notes on Gen. Clifton

JFKCountercoup2: A4a - Zulu Grenwich Mean Time

JFKCountercoup2: A4-b AF1 Chronology

JFKCountercoup2: A5 White House Situation Room

JFKcountercoup: WHCA Comm Center After Action Reports

JFKcountercoup: Off the Tapes - What's Missing from AF1 Radio Tapes

JFKcountercoup: White House Phone Call Records 11/22/63

JFKcountercoup: Coup d'etat - Basic Elements - Were they followed on 11/22/63?

JFKcountercoup: Arthur A. Collins & Collins Radio

JFKcountercoup: James Douglas & Wes Wise

JFKcountercoup: Carl Mather & Collins Radio

JFKcountercoup: Mystic Star Communications Network

JFKcountercoup: The Collins Radio Connections

JFKcountercoup: Air Force One Radio Timeline 11/22/63

JFKcountercoup: Col. George Stanton Dorman

JFKcountercoup: The Andrews AFB Log Book 11/22/63

JFKcountercoup: "Liberty" Station at Collins Radio

JFKcountercoup: Deep Background LeMay & JFK

JFKcountercoup: JFK & General LeMay

JFKcountercoup: "Watchman"

JFKcountercoup: Air Force One Codes & Passenger List

JFKcountercoup: ARRB Search for AF1 Radio Tapes

JFKcountercoup: "Pentagon taking its own steps..." - Bundy

JFKcountercoup: Significance of AF1 Radio Transmissions

JFKcountercoup: Andrews Air Force Base - Radio Codes

I've added my take on the conference at

Http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com

And will add photos and two sidebars in coming days.

Bill Kelly

I agree with Pat Speer's assessment and will give an in depth report on the AARC conference soon. I would also like to hear more on the other conference.

Yea, God bless Tom, he was a good egg, and served America well. His insights on what happened at Dealey Plaza affected my perspective. Thanks Tom, and may your spirit have a good journey in the afterlife.

Bill Kelly

Let me guess. They solved the murder mystery - Lee Harvey Oswald did it all by himself - case closed. We can all go home now and dwell on more important matters.

BK

I don't know Bill, its written to say that "she" (Miss Garner) saw the policeman and Truly run up the stairs. Does that mean she saw them run by her on the fourth floor

as she was standing there? Did she really just wait their by the stairs all the time it took for the women to go downstairs, for Truly and the policeman to come upstairs, stop

to encounter Oswald on the second floor, question him and then start up the stairs again. upstairs...did she see the other person Truly mentioned seeing.

It certainly raises a number of questions for me...did she speak to Truly? What about seeing

other people on the stairs if she was she stayed by the steps, there were no doors on the stairway, wonder who else ran by?

Seems like a very interesting witness who should have been asked a few more questions...or was she, just not familiar with her...... Larry

I'm with you Larry. Is she still alive? Did she do a Sixth Floor Oral History?

So many questions, so little time,

BK

There is an article by John Martino in a national magazine - (Human Events?) published I think in Dec. 1963 that was distributed to the Hoch group, that also includes an article on the then on-going Congressional investigations that seemed to be engulfing LBJ, but simply went away after the assassination.

This article is very important, more so than Martino's disinformation, and I will try to find it.

BK

Here's Part I of my tribute to John, my closest friend and associate in the research community.

I will add some more soon, probably on Tuesday after a date and place for memorial service are determined.

JFKcountercoup: John Judge RIP - Dec. 14 1947 - April 15 2014

I was surprised that the Post was so generous and sentimental towards someone they previously ignored or attacked.

Here's a link to a biting satire of COPA and John Judge's reasoned response:

JFKCountercoup2: CARP vs. COPA

Here's a more in depth article:

JFKCountercoup2: John Judge: Stirring the Plot

Two articles we co-authored together:

JFKCountercoup2: Bottlefed by Oswald's NANA

JFKCountercoup2: Hinkley & Co.

This was an American University symposium on the subject of Politics and Film and featured the discussion on Oliver Stone's JFK.

This was very important to the success of COPA as after this was aired on CSPAN people began to question - Who is this GuY?

And a more popular broad base of support to free the files was boosted by not only the film but this program and others that brought the subject of the assassination into the popular mainstream.

BK

Robin, am I reading this incorrectly or is Miss Garner saying that she went upstairs along with Truly and the policeman? That would be something a bit new?

-- Larry

Larry, I think Miss Garner remained on the fourth floor by the steps and elevator while the other two ran down.

BK

Here's Part I of my tribute to John, my closest friend and associate in the research community.

I will add some more soon, probably on Tuesday after a date and place for memorial service are determined.

JFKcountercoup: John Judge RIP - Dec. 14 1947 - April 15 2014

I was surprised that the Post was so generous and sentimental towards someone they previously ignored or attacked.

Here's a link to a biting satire of COPA and John Judge's reasoned response:

JFKCountercoup2: CARP vs. COPA

Here's a more in depth article:

JFKCountercoup2: John Judge: Stirring the Plot

Two articles we co-authored together:

JFKCountercoup2: Bottlefed by Oswald's NANA

JFKCountercoup2: Hinkley & Co.

If anyone can find it on line and archived, John Judge did a NPR radio program with Fletcher Prouty on Diane Rehm - sometime 1992-3? - that would be interesting to hear today.

John Judge also did a show with Ali G., the Jewish commedian and film maker if anyone can find that clip.

- BK

Here's Part I of my tribute to John, my closest friend and associate in the research community.

I will add some more soon, probably on Tuesday after a date and place for memorial service are determined.

JFKcountercoup: John Judge RIP - Dec. 14 1947 - April 15 2014

I was surprised that the Post was so generous and sentimental towards someone they previously ignored or attacked.

Here's a link to a biting satire of COPA and John Judge's reasoned response:

JFKCountercoup2: CARP vs. COPA

Here's a more in depth article:

JFKCountercoup2: John Judge: Stirring the Plot

Two articles we co-authored together:

JFKCountercoup2: Bottlefed by Oswald's NANA

JFKCountercoup2: Hinkley & Co.

A Record from Mary Ferrell's Database

Record: KANTOR, MARVIN -----

Sources: HSCA, Vol. XII, p. 364; CIA 1004-400; CIA 1188-1000; HSCA Reel 9, Box 7, Folder J, K (AMKW 7)

Mary's

Comments: DOB: 5/9/34. POB: New York, NY. Parents Irving and Sarah Brodsky Kantor. Married Lis Petersen (Danish girl) in Copenhagen 8/13/61. Educ. Copenhagen Univ, 1961. Fordham Univ., M.A. 1962. Univ of Michigan, Ph.D. 1966. Lecturer in Slavic Languages Univ of Michigan, 1964-66. Brooklyn College of City Univ of New York, Brooklyn, NY, asst Professor of Russian, 1966-67. Northwestern Univ., Evanston, IL, asst. prof. of Slavic languages, 1967--. He was a student in Minsk in 1961. Lived with aunt and uncle (mother's sister). Russians tried to recruit him then threw him out of Russia. He was interviewed in Copenhagen by CIA May 3 and 4, 1961. He went back to Russia 6 or 7 years later and received a phone call from the same Russian diplomat who had tried to recruit him in 1961 (just a "social call"). 1952-55, Kantor was an enlisted Marine. Had been to Cuba in the Carribean and to Yugoslavia. Marina was taking English at Univ of Mich in March 1965 at same time Kantor was lecturing there. CIA apparently wanted to keep Marina and Kantor apart and asked help from FBI.

The document below, which is from LHO's 201 File, and is dated 3/2/65, shows at least one similarity between Kantor and Oswald......

https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=97058

There ya go.

Welcome to the Forum

Wonder if he could be related to Seth Kantor, the author mentioned in the Warren Commission and the author of a couple of books

on Jack Ruby

Thanks for that Robert,

Very interesting fellow.