William O'Neil

Bugliosi has won my ass!

This is war. If you can't handle it, shoot yourself in the foot and go home.

Charles Drago

Agreed Charels..... does one accept defeat in the face of treason. ( Not trying to be sappy here) Would the Founding Fathers accept this crap....Hell No!!

Starting to write like Os (Charels ??) late at night.

Bugliosi has won my ass!

This is war. If you can't handle it, shoot yourself in the foot and go home.

Charles Drago

Agreed Charels..... does one accept defeat in the face of treason. ( Not trying to be sappy here) Would the Founding Fathers accept this crap....Hell No!!

I have been awakened finally !

This book, if it is continued to be promoted, as no doubt was long planned, with subsequent "highly admired actors" in a following mini series.... has made of me a COMPLETE FOOL ! This book will be the biggest boon and coup to which the Warrenatti have ever aspired !

This book will be a very successful attempt to model the minds of both the young and those not well informed, of the specifics of the JFK assassination. It is asking for what everyone truly wants... "A reason for a rebirth of a faith in their nation" and its long accepted "honesty and lofty principles"! It is giving the masses what they are begging for. How can it possibly fail?

I have called this book "an abortion" of common sense. BUT....it is going to do everything that its "PROMOTERS" demanded !

IT WILL INFLUENCE MANY ! "MOST", as most are relatively unread and un studied regarding this nearly half century old subject.

Those whom you have frequently heard me refer to as their nations current "Best and Brightest", are those who engineer the Propaganda and Intelligence Agencies, and as a result are "The Power Implement" of the true, and not so well hidden, Dictators of this nation.

It is persons such as me, who at first FAIL TO SEE the absolute crystal clarity and absolute preparedness of their mission, who ARE the fools.

Theirs is not "madness"...it is "method" !

Those semi educated and less informed masses to which they will appeal, are also not fools. They are the "REALITY" of the true composition of this nation. They are appealing to the reality of the situation. They know their "enemy" better than "we" know "ourselves" !

As they advance their cause, we choose to waste decades bickering over obviously faked film and photos, the number of shooters and their locations,

the blindness and ineptness of the Parkland Hospital Trauma Staff, the blindness, stupidity and "WELL ACKNOWLEDGED INEPTNESS" of the corroborating testimony of eye witnesses who were observers within a few feet of the crime, and the unreliability of police officers and SS men to the rear of the President, who were splattered with his brains and blood.

I feel that it is "this ridiculousness and dysfunctionality" on the part of the research community that is strongly signalling our forthcoming demise. I call it also "greed" ! Greed of researchers to not be willing to ABANDON their cherished and long established positions, even when its absurdity is generally recognizeable to most others. We are ever too anxious to display and advertise our individual mental accuity than to play as a team. A "TEAM" of eleven good football Players, will always defeat an opponent comprised of the eleven "BEST" Quarterbacks and Receivers who have ever lived and played.

Bugliosi's "foolish book", as I have called it ?

Who is the FOOL ?

This "strategically targeted" book may mark the winning strategy of what might well be the FINAL BATTLE !

The future may well be nothing more than skirmishes designed to "mop up" the remnants of the "insurgents" by the "administration" !

Charles Black

Charles , There can be method in madness. The everlasting methodical effort to deny America it's history, is driven by madness, and that is the real disturbing part to me!

'

Please, All you need to know...was the Pleura penetrated !!!! If it wasn't (and It wasn't),... all the arguments and verbage go out the window!

Sorry. No clue what you are talking about. RTFM. Thanks for watching.

It looks as if Ron Hepler is also of a similar opinion, however he adds a fourth shot to account for the Connally wound, as opposed to the graze shot, which he believes could correspond with the dent in t windshield chrome also.

http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_i...e/connally.html

IDENTIFYING THE IMPACT

When I learned of these statements concerning the impact of the bullet, it was immediately apparent that such forward motion would pinpoint the time of the impact within one frame of the Zapruder film, so I decided to look for that motion. At frame 224, the time of the Lapel Flap there is no motion that matches the description given by the Governor . So I looked at Frame 236, the shoulder drop, surely if the bullet drove his shoulder down it would have driven him forward; but no. What about frame 238, the puffing of the cheeks? Still no cigar. So rather than accept that the Governor was not yet wounded most researchers choose to ignore the statements of the two people most intimate with the event, the wounded man and his wife who was seated next to him at the time of the shooting.

So I continued to let the VCR run in slow motion. During the headshot sequence I thought I saw the governor driven forward. I replayed the headshot sequence time after time at normal speed, in slow motion, and in single frame step mode, often covering the President with my hand so as to be able to focus completely on the Governor without my eyes being drawn to the headshot.

Frame 315

Frame 321

Frame 326

Frame 338

That was it. The bullet obviously impacted him under the armpit at frame 315 as he attempted to raise himself from his wife's lap. The first evidence of motion is visible at frame 316. He is driven forward as is shown in frame 321 and hits the back of the front seat at frame 323. He immediately collapses just as Mrs. Connally had described in frame 326. A second violent motion is noticeable at about frame 338 when run at normal speed. This motion is most likely the impact of the wrist shot that then goes on to cause the thigh injury. Evidence of the Governor's wounding after the headshot was noted by Robert Groden in his book, "The Killing of a President. (4) as Shot # 6.

All indications are that the Governor was the victim of the last two shots of what was obviously a four shot volley aimed at the President's head. The first shot of this volley, at frame 312, was apparently only a tangential hit, gently shoving the President's head forward and possibly denting the windshield frame of the limo. The second shot from the Grassy Knoll at frame 313 was a solid impact, driving the President's head violently backward. With JFK's head deflected from its targeted location, the third shot sailed past at frame 315 and into the Governor's back shattering his fifth rib, rupturing his right lung and exiting out of his chest. The last shot, fired at about frame 338, impacts the Governor's wrist, shattering the radius bone with the remains coming to rest in his thigh.

\

Yeah, guess my comment seemed a little out of context. I was really aiming at the notion that somehow a bullet passed through JFK and struck Connolly. The autopsy witnesses, Drs. and medical assisstants, who saw the "sound" or probe inserted into the back wound of JFK, said that wound was shallow and did not pierce the Pleural linning around the lungs. Which means that the bullet that caused that wound, did not transit the body.

Input from multiple sources, including professional opinions, sources, documents, observations etc. Thanks to all who provided input.

Short and sweet.

SBT - one round struck both Kennedy and Connally, coming from the rear. Agreed in principle.

Caveats:

- Bullets fragment upon impact - even when penetrating human skin, but more so, obviously, when encountering human bone.

- Timing associated with the original hoax is inaccurate. This theory assumes that Connally was not struck in the back or chest when the original SBT maintains the event occurred [timing of the high velocity small caliber frontal entry throat wound].

- The shot did not originate from the elevation associated with the 6th floor of the TSBD, nor the TSBD.

- Connally did not suffer from a 'tumbling wound' on entrance - this was instead an exit wound.

- The wounds suffered by Kennedy and Connally were not the result of one bullet.

In speaking with a source, it was indicated to me as fact that Connally was struck not in the back, but in the chest. Mob Dame Hoover's comments made to criminal scum Bull Johnson are not relevant, and should be ignored. Mob Dame Hoover's remarks as to Connally somehow entering into the line of fire intended for Kennedy are simply preposterous.

Two independent professional sources indicated that the shot as seen in the Zapruder film, causing the scalp to flap forward over the face was known as a 'graze' shot - as opposed to a centered shot to the head.

Robin Unger's post concerning the hole in the floorpan of the Lincoln may have a place here.

The mystery of the manipulation of the original Z-film may have a place here.

The shot in question was one of a significant caliber, originating from the rear, striking high on Kennedy's right upper skull, fragmenting the skull and forcing the scalp to part and flap forward. This is consistent with the piece of scalp recovered which contained a trace of make-up, suggesting the area of the hairline. Speculation follows that the shooter in question was tracking his target and preparing to fire at the center of Kennedy's head - all was prepared, and the shooter would have been tracking Kennedy in his scope, accounting for the pitch and curve of Elm St, the windage, the drop and the distance to his target. What neither he, nor his spotter Nestor Izquierdo may have been prepared for, was Greer's sudden braking of the vehicle, which led to a shot that was unintentionally much higher than planned. Speculation. Additional speculation that the individual shooter in question was a white male, based upon other source material.

Using David Lifton's research, it is clear that the head underwent some surgery, placing the flap back into place, in addition to 'surgery' on the front temple wound entrance, which was a separate and distinct shot - heavy weight caliber, coming from the front right, and penetrating the rear - consistent with the accounts of the Parkland Hospital Doctors - I am not planning to go into detail on the frontal shot here.

Frames were removed from the Z-footage, to combine what was in all likelihood as many as 3 separate shots striking Kennedy's head [see Mantik], within moments of one another - and consistent with witness accounts of the repetitive nature of the sound of the final shots.

In sequence - the graze shot from the rear, followed by the frontal shot to the temple, finally a possible shot to the side of the head [as per the Hoover comments and other related info on the small round lodged behind Kennedy's right ear - see Robin Unger's thread on this subject] - hence the movement - forward, back, then left [and the remarks made by Bill Newman in his interview with Ian Griggs where he speaks about Kennedy going over into Jackie's lap as if he had been hit by a baseball bat -- however it could also be a matter of a total lack of normal muscular coordination associated with the destruction of the brain following the frontal shot which accounts for the 'left' movement]. The gap between the rear shot and the front shot should have accounted for additional frames - seen by those that have been privleged to witness 'other' supressed footage of the assassination. This was made quite clear to me from the individuals I questioned whom claimed to have seen such a film or films [plural].

In the Zapruder footage, the round which accounted for the graze wound to the right top of Kennedy's head would have continued on, or near, it's original trajectory.

Nellie Connally pulled John Connally into her lap - until z313, this theory assumes that he would have suffered no wounds to his chest or back area until this time. The round which grazed the top of Kennedy's head continued on into Connally's chest, shattering a rib, exiting the back and may have penetrated the floor pan. Other fragments from the original impact would most likely have been associated with the lead fragments collected from the Lincoln - perhaps even accounting for the dent in the chrome trim around the windshield? Efforts were made afterwards to conceal a frontal entry, and coordinate the wound with the throat wound and the wound to the President's back.

Again, the 'Harper' fragment was in all likelihood the effort on the part of the individuals involved to destroy the evidence of the shot from the front, which left behind a void in the rear of the skull, a bit larger than a golf ball and witnessed by the staff at Parkland. This fragment would have been planted during the evening of 11/22, and discovered by student Harper the following day, in line with a TSBD 6th floor shooter at Oswald's alleged position. A physical impossibility that a piece of the rear portion of the skull would have been 'discovered' the following day, in the position it was found [ref Don Roberdeau's plat]. The brain was removed to avoid the inevitable examination by a pathologist - and the hole in the rear of the head was enlarged to accommodate this end with the removal of the remains of the brain, in addition to covering the rear exit wound.

In the z-footage which remains, despite efforts to 'synch' the headshots to appear as if they are one in the same - a graze shot is recognized for what it is - and this, again, was independently correlated by two professionals. The following 'back' movement of the head is consistent not with any 'jet effect' or any such nonsense, but from a heavy weight caliber round being fired from the right front.

In line with an effort to 'cover-up' anything beyond a lone nut communist shooting from the 6th floor window of the TSBD, it would then become necessary to create the appropriate smokescreen that would separate the graze wound from the entry to Connally's chest and perhaps the hole in the floorpan, skull fragments, scalp flap, etc - in order to prevent the recognition that the shot originated from a different building entirely, and at a different elevation than the 6th floor.

In the z-footage, following the graze to the top of Kennedy's skull, Connally is lying still, and as meek as a lamb. Soon afterwards, he is turning on his side in agony, and revealing the large exit wound in his back [ref z-footage].

While the whereabouts of the hole in the floorpan will continue to elude - it should be possible to make an estimate, drawing a line back through Connally's wounds and Kennedy's graze wound, to the approximate location of the Dal-Tex shooter.

Let's hope it ain't the Jennifer Juniors offices, cause that would be too creepy.

One interesting observation that can be made here, in line with this theory, is that Connally was not an intended target.

The amazing part about the above theory is this bit posted on the internet by 'Reverend Mack.' In re-reading it for the 10th time, following some period of time in discussion, email exchanges, reading and observation - I realized that he had - roughly speaking - already made this theory public in 2004:

http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/FIST2004-...from_DalTe.html

Z313 came from DalTex building

From: reverendmack@hotmail.com (Rev. Mack)

Date: Mon, Apr 5, 2004

There was a right-wing volunteer in the Daltex building

who administered the head shot.

Agreed

If you have ever seen the Zapruder film that has been

computer-enhanced to eliminate the Zapruder shaking

camera, you will see that the same bullet that

blows up JFK's head also slams Connaly into the

back of the front seat.

Agreed with caveat - Connally does not appear to 'slam' into the back of the front seat - but he certainly turns all of the way over, and exposes the exit wound in his back.

If it came from the grassy knoll, it would have made

a split in JFK's head from right to left and then hit

Jackie.

Disagree - this was a separate shot from the temple entry, which exited and had no impact on Jackie, but in all likelihood was responsible for the 'dust' spoken of by the mystery FBI? agent encountered by Jean Hill and spoken of in her record.

Mrs. HILL - Then, he asked me I was asked did I know that a bullet struck at my feet and I said, "No; I didn't." And he said, "What do you think that dust was?"

As it was, the head was split from back to front

and a little high to the right, accounting for

that part of the head exploding. Large fragments must

have gone on to Connally.

Agreed with caveat: Not certain as to the size of the fragments. Difficult to say, since there is no record of the size of all of the fragments and where they were originally found.

People are confuse[d] about Connally's motions. First he

is turning this way and that to see what the hell is

happening. Then his WIFE, Nellie, pulls him down from

the back, causing some facial expressions that others

say must have been bullet impacts. Not so. She pulls

him from behind, he's down, *then* his [he's] hit by the

Z313 bullet which has just passed through JFK from

behind, originating in the Daltex building.

Agreed.

Very likely a sophisticated rifle on a tripod was used.

Very likely the trigger man did not do it for a single

payment, but was actually a part of the insider power

structure which planned and carried out the killing.

Agreed.

It was a small group of people who did it originally,

but once done.....

It became a huge coverup by the many, for a many reasons.

Agreed.

Which leads many to conclude that the original conspiracy

was also huge. Not so. Texans did it. They were not all

professionals. It was a surprise to many others who

immediately or eventually went along or died.

Disagree - lot's of Texans - but that doesn't cover it all...IMO.

Agreed - intimidation and liquidation.[/quote]

'Green grass and high tides forever...'

Please, All you need to know...was the Pleura penetrated !!!! If it wasn't (and It wasn't),... all the arguments and verbage go out the window!

[...]

I speculate that it was not a belief that Hunt would keep his "mouth closed" that kept him alive as he had, at his threat of "spilling the beans," already been paid "bribe money."

I feel that this "clever weasel" had protected himself against "termination" by letting it be well known that his "untimely death" would RELEASE the "truths of which he had proof" regarding JFK!

[...]

_______________________

Charlie,

I agree. In my humble opinion, Hunt probably had some highly-incriminating documents, tape recordings, and/or photos (original negatives) stashed away in a several safe places and let certain elements of the CIA/FBI/Mafia see and/or listen to the Zeroxes, copies and/or prints of said incriminating items with the understanding that if he died under suspicious circumstances, said "evidence" would be made "public."

Heck, who knows... Maybe Hunt really was that "old tramp" being escorted by "police" down the Elm Street extention and maybe he was carrying a Minox (or some such small camera) in the smallish paper bag visible in his left hand in some of the photos. Maybe he had taken photos of the shooters, spotters and/or radiomen in action....

Nah, it was probably a radio....

--Thomas

St. John Hunt, smells like Ricky White. If his dad he told me it was June 7th, I'd check the calender. Sorry !

_______________________

Antti: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_M._Rainach

Willie Rainach. Interesting character, Antti.

"Rainach was born as "William Odom"*** in Kentwood in Tangipahoa Parish, east of Baton Rouge"

"Rainach,..., founded the first White Citizens' Council"

"The Rainachs lived on a 450-acre farm near Summerfield"

"In 1959, Rainach delivered a racially inflammatory speech before the legislature in which he professed to "love the [expletive deleted](presumably 'n': my comment), but I know he can't run this country. The breeding in him does not allow him to run a civilization, and I won't let our civilization go to ruin." " - relevant to the eugenics issues

A prominent theme among Black Civil Rights activists was that they did not care to be 'loved' by whites, just simply to be able to move in society without fear of being beaten or killed.

"Governor Earl Long, considered more progressive on race than many Louisiana politicians of his era but uncouth in language, lectured Rainach in a well-known exchange: "Willie, one of these days you gonna retire and go back home. You'll take off your boots, wash your feet, stare at the moon, and get close to God. Then will you realize that niggers are human beings too."

Long further defended his own racial policies: If the nation "would leave us alone and quit brainwashing the colored people, we'd solve this ourselves. Yes, I like colored people, and I know there ain't many of them can vote for me either. Now I ain't saying this for votes. I am the best friend the colored man, and the poor white man, and the middle class, and the millionaire, if he wants to do right, ever had in the governor's office in the history of this state. You just check. You just check." "

This theme of appealing to the poor, and to the millionaire, "IF he wants to do right" is also a theme of the Nazis or the "National Socialist German Workers' Party" which was funded by millionaires throughout the 'free world' and whose agenda was to destroy the Communists. Typical 'Goebblerism'.

"Rainach was named "Man of the Year" by the Homer Lions Club in 1974. In 1959, he received the "Americanism Award" from the Caddo-Bossier chapter of the newly-formed Young Americans for Freedom."

Interesting. The YAF would become the prominent opponent to the SDS, and the NSA* (who were destroyed by the leaking of info that its leadership received funds from the CIA.)National Students Association. This issue also masked the much larger CIA contributions to the Latin/South American Dictatorships. When the dust settled the YAF continued on its merry way making little reference to the issue.

"Rainach's suicide:

Rainach, who had been in ill health, shot himself in the right temple with a .38 caliber pistol on a Thursday morning, January 26, 1978, in his backyard. His body was found by the maid. His wife, Mable Justin Fincher Rainach (May 26, 1915 -- January 1995), was shopping in Homer at the time. The coroner ruled the death a suicide. Though his suicide may have been personal in regard to his declining health, it was somewhat reminiscent of Edmund Ruffin, a Confederate firebrand who also took his own life to avoid living in the northern-dominated South of 1865. Rainach was never reconciled to civil rights and principles of racial equality."

"... I do not feel the two societies should mix. I wish it were possible for whites and blacks to live together, but it just isn't."

An start of an exploration of events around the time of Rainach's suicide:

Some events of 1978

- the HSCA investigations were under way

- FISA law was implemented in 1978 in part because of revelations that the National Security Agency was spying domestically.

- March 6 - American porn publisher Larry Flynt is shot and paralyzed in Lawrenceville, Georgia.

EDIT::

***Odom:

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/Marsh/Jfk-conspiracy/time.htm

11/23/63 FBI SA Edward C. Palmer obtains original copies of letters by LHO to SECNAV and USMC regarding discharge - letters obtained from William E. Odom, OASD (PUB AFFAIRS) - is this Bill Odom future ACSI of US Army??

Also a Robert Odo(u)m in Oswalds address book.

_________________

Truman Capote:

"Capote goes on to say he felt that Castro had falsely claimed at the beginning to be a democratic agrarian reformer and had been in fact, a Communist all along..."

an odd comment by someone one would expect perhaps to know better?

A communist is essentially a 'democratic agrarian reformer'. It's Agrarian reform and the redistribution of land that is usually high on the agenda along with a grass roots democracy following a successful socialist revolution. It was the seizing of land in Cuba and an offer to pay the previous owners according to their tax receipts which vastly undervalued the land and kept profits high that was a significant parting of ways between Cuba and USA interests.

Similarly it was Agrarian reform in Nicaragua that triggered the terror campaign of the USA-CIA Reagan sponsored hard-drug dealers, the Contra Terrorists.

Castro was a well educated member of the working class, and he skillfully guided the Cuban struggle for independence. I have little doubt that he was a socialist all along. Let's say he 'pulled a swifty' and got away with it.

Willie was also a fan of the "Christian Identity" school of thought, brought to him courtesy of William Potter Gale.

Me thinks ol' Willie ate his pistol when he heard about the HSCA investigations.

From MSC Files topic; http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...ost&p=51311

David: "The "far right" also kept a close eye on the "far left." I believe that this is one of the roles that Guy Banister and Associates played after Banister left the N.O. police. Banister had previously (1957) testified as an expert witness before the LUAC about the infiltraton of the communists into the civil rights movement. A look at Banister's files show that he did indeed track such groups and individuals. If my memory is working today, some of Banitser's files were taken by the Louisiana State Police and some were given to Kent Courtney (good friend of Gen Walker). LHO may have had a small role working for Banister in this capacity."

Bannister was recommended to the Sovereignty Commission Jackson Mississippi as investigator in March 64 by a John Sullivan to track guns, there is indication he was working for them at least by May '64. The thing that the SC's did was to monitor and collect intel on the left and anyone who threatened segregation. Thye were heavily involved with Walker, Eastland, Barnett the JBS etc. They had a number of exFBI working for them, apparently Bannister was one of these.

The person assigned by the M.S.C. to investigate the FPCC in 1961 was A.L. Hopkins.

In June 30, 1961. The MSC. received a list of 230 FPCC members from R.J. Strickland, Chief Investigator of the Florida Legislative Investigation Committee. (I have trouble finding out if even a relative is coming on a flight. This man had access to full planeload lists. Would this have been easy in the 60's?)

What this means is that the MSC. was coooperating with intelligence agencies and informants across the south in investigating and infiltrating and seeking to disrupt the FPCC as early as 1961.

It doesn't seem unreasonable that the Louisiana Sovereignty Commission, under John Deer, would be supplying member lists of FPCC members from that state as well. Add in the Postal Investigators and other sympathetic elements in the Police, Highway Patrol, State Departments and the FBI one has a comprehensive coverage.

John, right again. One small thing.... Banister testified for The Joint Legislative Committee on Segragation (JLC) , run by Wille Rainach. LUAC didn't exist yet.

Here you go Bill.....

But, there is no mention of Mclaney in Ed's book. I have no idea what is fact or not, I am just going to give you what is in Ed's book, about Oswalds Apartment.

Ed actually did quite well and was even somewhat plausible, until he decided to change his whole direction and climbed into the ring with Judyth. He said that he talked with her and saw her Mementoes and then verified her Newspaper clippings of her Highschool Science Achievments and awards. However, there has never been a question of those clippings nor that she worked at Riley's for a short time.

Dixie

_________________________________

Dr Mary's Monkey by Edward T. Haslam

Forward by Jim Marrs (2007)

Chapter 11

Page 267

In Warren Commission Volume 19

The FBI went to the U.S. Public Health Service Hospital on 11/25/63 (8) looking for evidence of either Lee Harvey Oswald or A.J. Hidell (9). They went back a second time on 1/26. (10).

The FBI was looking for Oswald at the US Public Health Hospital! I could hardly believe my ears. "Why?"

(Told to Ed) "According to the Dallas Police, Oswald had a vaccination card issued to him by the U.S. Public Health Service on 6/8/63, when he lived at 4907 Magazine Street in New Orleans. It was issued to Lee Harvey Oswald, and signed by "Dr. A.J. Hidell."

Had Lee Harvey Oswald been on the grounds of the U.S. Public Health Service Hospital at the time the linear particle accelerator was there?

Take a look at the map (map shown in book). Does it strike you as unusual that both Lee Harvey Oswald and Dr. Alton Ochsner lived within one mile of the most secret government laboratory in America?

Here one should also consder the testimony of Dr. Adele Edisen, a Ph.D.neurologist, to the Assassinations Records Review Board in the 1990's. She stated that she had been given Lee Harvey Oswald's name and his New Orleans phone number in mid-April 1963. approximately three weeks before Oswald moved to New Orleans. (11) To me, her 21 page narrative strongly suggests that the location of Oswald's apartment was not accidental, and that it had been selected in advance for some reason. Was this reason it's close proximity to the U.S. Public Health Service Hospital? Had Lee Harvey Oswald been sent to New Orleans to spy on the secret experiments at the U.S. Public Health Service Hospital?

Footnotes page 271

(8) 11/25/63 was the Monsay following the JFK Assassaination (Friday 22, 1963)

(9) A.J. Hidell was an alias that Lee Harvewy Oswald used during his first month in New Orleans.

(10) Warren Commission Volime XIX, Exhibit #2012, memos from the New Orleans FBI Office. Also HSCA, Cadigan 23 & 24.

(11) DR. Edisen said she was given Oswald's phone number by Jose A. Rivera, M.D., Ph.D., a Director of NIH's Institute for Nerurological Diseases and Blindness. Subsequent research proved Dr Rivera to be Col. Jose A. Rivera of the U.S. Army's biowarfare unit and that he had lived in uptown New Orleans during 1960-61, a fact which he later concealed from the U.S. Civil Service Commission. Rivera may have been involved in the secret experiments at the U.S. Public Health Service Hospital.

(12) Oswald's 4907 Magazine St. apartment was a small flat usually rented by Tulane or Loyola students. The phone number given to Edisen belonged to the building's landlord. Like the other tenants, the Oswalds borrowed their lansdlord's phone and never had a phone of their own. Dr Edisen eventually called the phone number and spoke to Oswald himself. She was surprised to hear Oswald say that he did not know Dr. Rivera, and cautioned him. "Well he sure knows who you are."

__________________________________

Not to be picky but, the alias on the vaccination doc was HIDEEL.

David Talbot and Vincent Bugliosi were featured on Hardball with Chris Matthews last night. I missed the program, but here is a link to the online version. I cannot get sound on my computer at the moment, so if anyone could post a transcript or even a description of the highlights it would be much appreciated

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/

Of course, Ray, there was much silly ranting, with questionable sanity on display. The show should be called "Wiffleball" for all the buffoonery. Talbot was trying to be reasonable, but was pilloried by the clowns, Bug & Chris.

Matthews, just to mention one oddity, maintained that, because LHO was employed at the TSBDB long before the motorcade route was known, LHO must, therefore, have been a LN. Thus, no conspiracy. A stupid joke? Well, yes, it is that, but is it more?

This contention has the earmark of a deliberate disinformation plant, because to the unwitting, guileless public it has a ring of simple, credible rationality or plausibility, when of course it's really mendacious propaganda.

Oh. Matthews also said that the movie JFK was irrelevant & irresponsible.

Punch & Judy show.

Chris Mathews is ''Beltway Establishment", he never rocked a boat in his life, and never will.

Bugliosi in Reclaiming History (p. 1461) :

"...Not one bullet other than the three fired from Oswald's rifle has ever been found and linked to the assassintion. No person other than Oswald has ever been connected by evidence, in any way, to the assassintion. No evidence has ever sufaced linking Oswald to any of the major groups suggested by conspiracy theorists of being behind the assassination. And no evidence has ever been found showing that any person or group framed Oswald for the murder they committed."

"One would think that faced with these stubborn and immutable realities, the critics of the Warren Commission, unable to pay the piper, would finally fold their tent and go home. ZBut instead, undaunted and unafazed, they continue to disgorge even more of what we have had from them for over forty years - wild speculation, theorizing, and shameless dissembling about the facts of the case."

"The purpose of this book has been twofold, to educate everyday Americans that Oswald killed Kennedy and acted alone, PAYING FOR HIS OWN BULLETS. And two, to expose, as never before, the conspiracy theorists and the abject worthlessness of all their allegatons."

"I believe this book has acieved both ends."

End of book.

[Emphasis added]

In that case, I believe that everyday Americans won't even read Bugliosi's book, and that in questioning his own concluding statement that "Oswald killed Kennedy, and acted alone, paying for his own bullets,...", it conclusively be demonstrated to be false, and that all of his other arguments and conclusions come similarly unravelled.

Please Mr. Bugliosi, refer us to the source for the unsubstantiated fact that Oswald not only acted alone, but did so "paying for his own bullets."

There is not, as far as I know, one witness or one document that indicates when, how, and from whom Lee Harvey Oswald purchased the four known bullets attributed to him, let alone how much he paid for them.

I would hope that anyone who ever has the opportunity to personally question Mr. Bugliosi asks him that one question.

BK

I think the FBI and the SS would have a tough time agreeing with Vince , since they went all-out to try and find a source for Oswalds ammo, with zero luck. Mind telling us now Vince, just were Os "paid for his own bullets". Oh, and just curious , how much did he plunk down for em'??? And he accuses us of making stuff up!

I have launched a new blog devoted to commentary on Vincent Bugliosi's Reclaiming History:

http://www.reclaiminghistory.org

It will feature short pieces, as well as excerpts and links to lengthier essays and reviews of the book.

I'm looking for experts to take a particular part of the case and address Bugliosi's treatment of it, as well as discuss the book as a whole in a critical but not-too-diatribey way. If you have written something you'd like to submit, you can contact me at info@maryferrell.org.

Rex Bradford

Rex , How do define "expert' or, what passes as an''expert"

-Bill

Just checked latest Amazon ratings number. Brothers is up to #50 overall, this includes all books new old, paperback and hardback, fiction and non.

This means there is going to be a critical mass out there--for a book that challenges lone nutism. This certainly represents some kind of opportunity. I thought there would never be a pro-conspiracy viewpoint that was allowed to reach this many readers.

Clearly the first readers are creating a stir and letting people know.

It is currently in 38th position at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books...e=UTF8&pg=2

It is the highest ranking history book at Amazon. The next best is Michael R. Beschloss' Presidential Courage: Brave Leaders and How They Changed America 1789-1989 (60th).

Vincent Bugliosi's Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy is in 95th position.

This just confirms my experience, that this there is still a good deal of interest in this case. On our recent trip to DC, to The Library of Congress, when people found out what subject we were researching, they inevitably expressed a great deal of interest in what we were finding, and what new evidence there was in the case. Even the young people from Europe and Austraila that we met, were eager about any news. T'was a pleasant suprise.!

Kent and Phoebe Courtney, "the Independent American" , Walker, Thurmond, Shannon, Metcalf, McGehee, NIC, Shreveport etc

http://www.mdah.state.ms.us/arlib/contents...23|1|1|1|86009|

http://www.mdah.state.ms.us/arlib/contents...|4|1|1|1|70764|

http://www.mdah.state.ms.us/arlib/contents...|1|1|1|1|70742|

http://www.mdah.state.ms.us/arlib/contents...|5|1|1|1|70780|

John , I knew this would set you off. You are way ahead of the curve,

Hopefuly Mr. Caddy will not be offended by further questions, tho I wish he would voluteer some broader insights as to that period in NO's.

Thanks for the response you have given, Douglas.

Castorr and his wife were also great supporters of Robert Morris. Mrs. Castorr penned many a piece to the print media pointing out how Morris was good for the country.

James

James, I did not know this but it figures, were these supportive pieces news articles or letters to the Editor. Do you have any examples handy?

Bill,

There were various examples published as letters to the various editors, some pamphlets and the like.

An example below.

James

Thanks!

Castorr and his wife were also great supporters of Robert Morris. Mrs. Castorr penned many a piece to the print media pointing out how Morris was good for the country.

James

James, I did not know this but it figures, were these supportive pieces news articles or letters to the Editor. Do you have any examples handy?

Mr Caddy, According to news articles in New Orleans papers, you were active with or knew Leander Perez, Kent Courtney, and Guy W. Banister in the late 1950’s anti- communist movement. Courtney was a political reporter; Banister was a former FBI man, and Perez a powerful political boss in La.. What was the organizational pecking order between these men, within the movement? How familiar were you with these individuals, and could you give us some insights about them, like how they related to each other, who was the major domo?

Thanks, Bill

I attended Alcee Fortier High School in New Orleans from 1954 to 1956, the latter year being when I was graduated from that educational institution.

While in high school I became active in politics. I first met Kent Courtney in 1954 when he and his wife, Phoebe, sponsored a public meeting in Audubon Park to mobilize support for Senator Joseph McCarthy, who was then threatened with being censured by the U.S. Senate. I erected a card table in front of St. Louis Cathedral in the French Quarter and collected signatures on petitions of persons who supported the cause of Senator McCarthy. These petitions were then forwarded to General Bonner Fellers, who headed the national pro-McCarthy movement.

It was about this time that Kent and Phoebe Courtney founded Free Men Speak, a monthly newspaper that reprinted editorials from conservative newspapers around the country (such as the Chicago Tribune and the Manchester (N.H.) Union-Leader.) I worked after school in a voluntary position in helping to publish the newspaper. Their publication later changed its name to The Independent American.

I was introduced to Guy Banister by Kent Courtney at a public meeting sponsored by the Kohn Crime Commission, a semi-public entity set up to combat organized crime in New Orleans. I seem to remember attending a meeting in Guy Banister’s office some time later but do not recollect the subject of the meeting. That was the extent of my relationship with Guy Bannister.

I never met or knew Leander Perez, who was the king-pin leader of Plaquemines Parish, which adjoins New Orleans.

If there were an organizational pecking order among these persons, it never came to my attention.

All these events occurred when I was between 16 and 18 years of age.

After being graduated from high school, I left New Orleans permanently, having enrolled in the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. I had no further contact with the Courtneys or with Guy Banister.

While at Georgetown University, in 1959 I founded the National Student Committee for the Loyalty Oath, which evolved into Youth for Goldwater. A year later, in 1960, I help found Young Americans for Freedom, which was organized at the family estate of William F. Buckley.

The above is a capsule history of how the mass conservative movement began.

Mr. Caddy , Thanks for your reply, I didn't realize you were that young then. What year did you meet Mr. Banister ?

Since I have only read about 150 pages of the Bug's work, I should withold comment, and would.... were the work worthy of such a courteousy.

It has been my lifelong habit when studying, to vigorously outline and make comments on imporant points which I feel are particularly noteworthy, or at times "absolutely incorrect".

I have decided that I cannot continue this process with the B's monstrous "work" if I am to ever finish. I have several pages (legal pad) already filled with not only untruths, but absolute lies !

Though the book is well documented...THE LIES ARE NOT ! It would not even take a particularly long time student to detect them. They LEAP forward !

I now must decide whether to trash this fictional megalith, or just continue my reading and forget the note taking.

The "errors" are so numerous that one could develop a mental disturbance by attempting to find a starting point for listing them.

Either Mr. Bugliosi has gone insane....truly believes that his readers are mentally retarded...or I must hope for the sake of his soul, that enough satisfaction was derived from the money that "some" agency or group paid him, that was worthy of trashing a lifetime reputation, along with "some" very good work", in order to now enter into the forefront of those whose life work has been the continuance of this Conspiracy.

Yes ! It is my most avid belief that Vince Bugliosi's name can be added to those involved in the CONSPIRACY TO COVER UP the Nov. 22, 1963, Coup d'Etat.

He deserves the same "respect" as those other U.S. Presidents, Congresssmen, Bureau and Agency Chiefs, members of the Judiciary and OWNERS of the major media, who have jointly and severally CONSPIRED to overthrow the U.S. Government.....and who very obviously continue to do so.

This book, and the reasons for its nearly inumerable lies and misgivings, if read by persons of only semi average intelligence, should be the defining NAIL in the COFFIN of those who do not believe in the "CONSPIRACY FACT" !

To any intelligent body, this work is as horrifically self defeating as it is monstrously large.

As Dr. Goebell's once said, "the larger the lie....." ! This book should tend to prove the good doctor "wrong again"!

I hope the company with which I have chosen to associate Mr Bugliosi will not go unnoticed.

Charles Black

Charles , keep taking your notes , it only hurts for a little while. Might make for some interesting discussion down the road. Once again Random House puts out another tome of distraction, for the sake of public confusion and to render them weary of the subject.

Mr Caddy, According to news articles in New Orleans papers, you were active with or knew Leander Perez, Kent Courtney, and Guy W. Banister in the late 1950’s anti- communist movement. Courtney was a political reporter; Banister was a former FBI man, and Perez a powerful political boss in La.. What was the organizational pecking order between these men, within the movement? How familiar were you with these individuals, and could you give us some insights about them, like how they related to each other, who was the major domo?

Thanks, Bill

"Bugliosi calls the dean of conspiracy buffs, Mark Lane, “unprincipled” and “a fraud.” "

Mark Lane was allied through connections with CORE. As early as june '61 (at the time when the Southern Intelligence Network was put in place and the FPCC came to their attention, prompting the infiltration and disruption that followed) Lane was identified as a de-segregationist, being arrested along with CORE lawyer P. E. Sutton in New Orleans as part of the beginning of the freedom rides.

http://www.mdah.state.ms.us/arlib/contents...06|1|1|1|16188|

IOW Mark Lane, long before the assassination was targeted by the right wing.

Naming Mark Lane as a primary CT'er ignores the (more) primary sources like Revilo Oliver, Dan Smoot, Walker, Ned Touchstone et al.

I'd like to see how Bugliosi handles the right wing in his book.

John, Mark Lane is undoubtedly the "Godfather" of the conspiracy theorist community. He was the one guy publishing articles and conducting talks BEFORE the Warren Commission had published anything. The FBI spent much of the last month of the Warren Commission investigating Mark Lane. Rush to Judgment sold more than all the other conspiracy books combined. It may have sold more than the Warren Report.

I have a sneakin' suspicion that underneath the charges of "fraud" and "xxxx" that Lane so frequently invokes, you will hear the whisper of "Jew." I don't think it's a coincidence that Lane, Weisberg, and Epstein etc aroused so much hatred among good ole wasps like JEH.

Mark Lane is a distraction, yea he fingered ther RW, but not the RIGHT wing.

David Talbot (p.406) :

"In recent years, the Kennedy legacy has been clouded by a spate of books, documentaries, and articles that have attempted to demythologize Camelot by presenting JFK as a drug-addled, sex-deranged, mobbed-up risk taker. While Kennedy's private life would certainly not pass today's public scrutiny, this pathological interpretation missess the essential story of his presidency. There was a heroic grandeur to John F. Kennedy's administration that had nothing to do with the mists of Camelot. It was a presidency that clased with its own times, and in the end found some measure of greatness. Coming to office at the height of the Cold War and held hostage by their party's powerful Southern racist wing, the Kennedy brothers steadily grew in vision and courage - prodded by the social movements of the sixties - until they were in such sharp conflict with the national security bureaucracy and Southern Democrats that they risked splitting their own administration and party. This is the fundamental historical truth about the presideency of John Fitzgerald Kennedy."

____________________________________

Hmmm...it appears my earlier criticism of Talbot is unfair, presumptious and unfounded.

At last someone who prominently (or at least appears to so far) addresses what (IMO) are CORE issues. (pun intended)

John , You are right on the money, pun and all....

Pat,

Like most of the other celebrated music stars of the '60s, the Beatles were producing lots of socially relevant music at that time, and the white album was probably (imho) their masterpiece. However, there is a big difference between protest songs and advocating murder and/or racial war. My point was that Bugliosi formulated a ridiculous, contrived explanation for the Tate-LaBianca murders which unjustifiably revolved around the lyrics from the white album. I think his absurd theory doesn't speak well for him, and makes his dishonest defense of the indefensible lone-assassin fairy tale a bit more understandable. I don't find Bugliosi the least bit credible.

The Helter Skelter theory was a cop -out / diversion, read "The Ultimate Evil" by Maury Terry.

Today (Saturday, April 7), at approximately 11:05 AM Eastern time, on C-SPAN's "In Depth," Alexander Cockburn responded to an E-mail question about his thoughts on "Case Closed" by stating that he accepts the Warren Commission's conclusions, but doesn't really agree with Gerald Posner.

Once again we must ask ourselves two important quesations:

What sort of impact we are having on the quest for justice in the case of the unsolved, conspiratorial murder of John Fitzgerald Kennedy when we cannot persuade the boldest, most progressive, liberal of intellectual lions to accept the truth?

Is it appropriate to use a given scholar's "take" on the assassination as a litmus test for his or her work in other areas?

I eagerly await your thoughts.

Charles

While I agree with Jack on this one and that Alx Cock, even though a Brit posing as a freelance radical, is an establishment stooge, I happened to be watching the program and turned my tape recorder on for just the answer to the one question. This is what I got from it:

A.C. : "I have said in the past, more than once, that I tend to believe the Warren Commission, and then people who don't ... raise their ( ? Herculian ....gust... ?).... and slap their lips and say, 'what an idiot.' And I think actually that the subsequent...encourages that...including the famous magic bullet, do ratify that postion,....I would...Did Lee Harvey Oswald have any accomplances? A lot of people say now no, but if you were there on .... the afternoon of November 22nd...and you had Lee Harvey Oswald's name in your rollodex, how long before you took that name out of your rollodex and tore it up and burned the remains and put them in the trash?"

"I tend to think and always thought that Lee Harvey Oswald thought that by killing Jack Kennedy he would take the pressure off Castro, ...ah, you know? And he saw the attempts to kill Castro as something that provoked him to do it. There were a lot of various peculiar things about Lee Harvey Oswald, it's true. But, by and large, I tend to agree, I tend definately to think he shot him. I think he did. I think the way the Warren Commission describes it is correct....."

So A. Cock thinks Oswald knew about the top secret CIA/Mafia plots to kill Castro and responded to them by killing JFK.

A. Cock, like N. Chomsky, is an intellectual whore who will think and theorize whatever he is paid to think.

As for Bugliosi, he knows that the correct approach to solving a crime it to keep an open mind and follow the evidence where ever it goes, and to debate the possible scinarios is just jerking everybody around for as long and hard as you can to waste time and kill real evidence.

BK

I believe a clue to Cockburns viewpoint lies in his answer regarding Oswald and Castro. What scares many "leftists" is the possibility that the conspiracy may have been one of Marxist origin , which they would not care to expose.

Yo! Bill,

I don't believe any "leftist" is "scared" of the possiblity the conspiracy was of Marxist origin and one they would not care to expose, especially jerks like Cockburn.

Those who continue to put forth the notion that Oswald was motivated to kill JFK because of his "Marxist" views or his sympathy for Castro fail to review the entire record, or are promoting their own agenda.

Those who have such agendas or are swayed by such opinions or philosophies are unable to approach the assassination from the perspective of someone capable of understanding it and solving it anyway.

If the assassination conspiracy was a foreign communist conspiracy, rather than by a domenstic anti-communist intelligence network, as it was, you can be sure those with the power to do so would have solved it immediately.

Bill Kelly

Bill, I agree about their failure to study the case in depth and their insincere and shady agenda. However, I do think there is an underlying motivation based on politics. This came up in a discussion I had with Michael Parenti years ago and he suggested the same type of thing. That Oswalds supposed politics, definately made these people uneasy about notions of conspiracy.

Today (Saturday, April 7), at approximately 11:05 AM Eastern time, on C-SPAN's "In Depth," Alexander Cockburn responded to an E-mail question about his thoughts on "Case Closed" by stating that he accepts the Warren Commission's conclusions, but doesn't really agree with Gerald Posner.

Once again we must ask ourselves two important quesations:

What sort of impact we are having on the quest for justice in the case of the unsolved, conspiratorial murder of John Fitzgerald Kennedy when we cannot persuade the boldest, most progressive, liberal of intellectual lions to accept the truth?

Is it appropriate to use a given scholar's "take" on the assassination as a litmus test for his or her work in other areas?

I eagerly await your thoughts.

Charles

While I agree with Jack on this one and that Alx Cock, even though a Brit posing as a freelance radical, is an establishment stooge, I happened to be watching the program and turned my tape recorder on for just the answer to the one question. This is what I got from it:

A.C. : "I have said in the past, more than once, that I tend to believe the Warren Commission, and then people who don't ... raise their ( ? Herculian ....gust... ?).... and slap their lips and say, 'what an idiot.' And I think actually that the subsequent...encourages that...including the famous magic bullet, do ratify that postion,....I would...Did Lee Harvey Oswald have any accomplances? A lot of people say now no, but if you were there on .... the afternoon of November 22nd...and you had Lee Harvey Oswald's name in your rollodex, how long before you took that name out of your rollodex and tore it up and burned the remains and put them in the trash?"

"I tend to think and always thought that Lee Harvey Oswald thought that by killing Jack Kennedy he would take the pressure off Castro, ...ah, you know? And he saw the attempts to kill Castro as something that provoked him to do it. There were a lot of various peculiar things about Lee Harvey Oswald, it's true. But, by and large, I tend to agree, I tend definately to think he shot him. I think he did. I think the way the Warren Commission describes it is correct....."

So A. Cock thinks Oswald knew about the top secret CIA/Mafia plots to kill Castro and responded to them by killing JFK.

A. Cock, like N. Chomsky, is an intellectual whore who will think and theorize whatever he is paid to think.

As for Bugliosi, he knows that the correct approach to solving a crime it to keep an open mind and follow the evidence where ever it goes, and to debate the possible scinarios is just jerking everybody around for as long and hard as you can to waste time and kill real evidence.

BK

I believe a clue to Cockburns viewpoint lies in his answer regarding Oswald and Castro. What scares many "leftists" is the possibility that the conspiracy may have been one of Marxist origin , which they would not care to expose.

Today (Saturday, April 7), at approximately 11:05 AM Eastern time, on C-SPAN's "In Depth," Alexander Cockburn responded to an E-mail question about his thoughts on "Case Closed" by stating that he accepts the Warren Commission's conclusions, but doesn't really agree with Gerald Posner.

Once again we must ask ourselves two important quesations:

What sort of impact we are having on the quest for justice in the case of the unsolved, conspiratorial murder of John Fitzgerald Kennedy when we cannot persuade the boldest, most progressive, liberal of intellectual lions to accept the truth?

Is it appropriate to use a given scholar's "take" on the assassination as a litmus test for his or her work in other areas?

I eagerly await your thoughts.

Charles

While I agree with Jack on this one and that Alx Cock, even though a Brit posing as a freelance radical, is an establishment stooge, I happened to be watching the program and turned my tape recorder on for just the answer to the one question. This is what I got from it:

A.C. : "I have said in the past, more than once, that I tend to believe the Warren Commission, and then people who don't ... raise their ( ? Herculian ....gust... ?).... and slap their lips and say, 'what an idiot.' And I think actually that the subsequent...encourages that...including the famous magic bullet, do ratify that postion,....I would...Did Lee Harvey Oswald have any accomplances? A lot of people say now no, but if you were there on .... the afternoon of November 22nd...and you had Lee Harvey Oswald's name in your rollodex, how long before you took that name out of your rollodex and tore it up and burned the remains and put them in the trash?"

"I tend to think and always thought that Lee Harvey Oswald thought that by killing Jack Kennedy he would take the pressure off Castro, ...ah, you know? And he saw the attempts to kill Castro as something that provoked him to do it. There were a lot of various peculiar things about Lee Harvey Oswald, it's true. But, by and large, I tend to agree, I tend definately to think he shot him. I think he did. I think the way the Warren Commission describes it is correct....."

So A. Cock thinks Oswald knew about the top secret CIA/Mafia plots to kill Castro and responded to them by killing JFK.

A. Cock, like N. Chomsky, is an intellectual whore who will think and theorize whatever he is paid to think.

As for Bugliosi, he knows that the correct approach to solving a crime it to keep an open mind and follow the evidence where ever it goes, and to debate the possible scinarios is just jerking everybody around for as long and hard as you can to waste time and kill real evidence.

BK

I think one of the clues to Cockburn's viewpoint, is displayed in his answer regarding Oswald and Castro. What scares alot of "leftists" like Cockburn and Chomsky, is the possibility that the assassination may have been a Marxist Conspiracy, which they would not care to expose. What if the killer of JFK had been determined to be a right winger. Would these people be esposing the same rhetoric as to conspiracy?