William O'Neil
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Posts posted by William O'Neil
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Russo and blaming RFK and Castro – (p.8)
"…Having reconstructed the roles of all these tragic actors, we have concluded with some sadness that the lessons of the politics of murder were lost on most of them, and lost on most of the body politic as well. An exception was Robert Kennedy. He, like Raul on the Cuban side, was the most relentless advocate of no-holds-barred covert actions – including assassination – within his brother's inner circle…The impulse for revenge and the political justification for it were virtually inseparable until, as Lyndon Johnson secretly expressed it, Castro got Kennedy before Kennedy could get him."
Thus making RFK responsible for his own brother's murder.
"The awful responsibility borne by Robert after John's death might have destroyed lesser men…"
(p. 16) "…Daniel would later remark that he was shocked that Fidel displayed no emotion when he heard the news, almost as if he had expected it. 4.
[bK notes: I read Daniel's report and that's just the opposite I got out of it. According to Daniel Fidel was the one who was shocked, and said that "This is a bad thing." ]
Russo :
"....Indeed he had. Fidel had been well aware that a young American 'foreign collaborator,' in contact with his agents in the embassy in Mexico City, was plotting his murder on his own initiative, a lost resort to prove his devotion to Fidel's cause. The act was a prelude to his own recruitment into Fidel's intelligence corps, or so the man had been left to believe."
(67) "…Among the students there (Minsk) were Jose Abrantes, the personal assistant to the Cuban intelligence chief, Ramiro Valdes Menendez, and one Fabian Escalante Font, a young agent of increasingly dangerous reputation who would soon rise to the top of the G2…It seems possible that Oswald befriended Fabian Escalante, among the most ambitious of those rising stars…"
(p. 147) "…Sergio (A. Smith) was already making direct reports to Bobby Kennedy by then, though he wouldn't say so explicitly until 1967…"
(p. 181) "….With his pathological secrecy, the rich and yet luminously disturbed nature of his inner life, Lee is a man who resists historical attempts to describe him. Faced with the task of unpacking Oswald's psyche, Norman Mailer emerged with only this overarching question, "….Oswald was a secret agent. There is no doubt on that. The only matter unsettled is whether he was working for any service larger than the power centers in the privacy of his mind." 36.
"As recent evidence suggests, he was both: at once a man in service to his own subjective agency, and a "patsy" for larger clandestine elements, Lee Oswald was never an operative for the American CIA, or for the Mafia. No evidence has arisen, from friends, family, associates, or authorities in either the United States or the old Soviet Union, that Lee was an agent of the American government….What he was, within weeks of his arrival, was a Cuban-aligned sleeper agent, a potential asset who might prove useful to Havana one day."
"This was his greatest dream, one that he had auditioned for perhaps as early as his visits to the Cuban embassy in L.A., before he defected to Russia – to convince his heroes that he was one of them; that he believed as they believed that he could deliver on his violent promises. He would try his best to become a 'self-recruited' Cuban spy, all the while ignorant of the fact that G2 already had its sights fixed on him."
Then there's "Oscar Marino," once a senior Cuban spy and "founder of G2," who tells Russo that Oswald came to the attention of the Cubans in the fall of 1962 as a "foreign collaborator," (p. 223) who claims that, "…It was in the autumn of 1962, when Oswald was recruited (by Castro Cuban G2). He was spoken of on the management level…Oswald was on a list of foreign colleagues and payees. He repeatedly received strategic money. No important sum, a couple of thousand dollars – only for strategic purposes. Money did not concern him. He wanted to perform something great for the revolution. He was in the USA, and was already a political activist who fought for the Cuban revolution."
Russo claims that Rolando Cubela (AMLASH) "had personal contact with Robert Kennedy and had been in a CIA safe house planning the murder of Fidel at precisely the moment that word came of the president's assassination in Dallas." (p. 224)
(p. 232)
"…Jack was already in the process of creating a new entity, the Cuban Coordinating Committee (or CCC), ostensibly to help brigadistas assimulate into American life but in fact to coordinate a new plan for a Cuban coup e'etat. As the negotiations to free the Brigade were coming to fruition, Cuban specialists at the State Department, Defense, the Navy, the Army, and on the Joint Chief's staff had been devising a new hemisphere-wide counterinsurgency strategy, plans for which he sent to the National Security Council (and Bobby) for approval before the president took action. Secretary of the Army Cyrus Vance took charge of sifting through the intel reports from the field. Joseph Califano, who had worked under Vance at the Pentagon since one week before the Bay of Pigs invasion, was the Defense Department's point man on the committee. Alexander Haig, the CCC's deputy to Califano, claimed that they effectively comprised the 'junction box' that enabled the Kennedy's to circumvent the intelligence bureaucracy. 7.
On the same page Russo acknowledges that "In Lee's 1962 diaries, he once described himself as a 'radical futurist.'" 10.
(p.234) "….On January 8, 1963, the CCC was officially established. Angelo Kennedy, an intimate of Artime's, was with him when a small group of exile leaders went to the Executive Mansion to learn of the CCC's grand scheme….
(p. 242) "….As the secret war was redefining itself, the CIA's Desmond FitzGerald was about to replace the self-sabotaging Bill Harvey. A polished, socially agile veteran of Wall Street and the CIA, Des was a classic American patrician….Harvey was shipped off to the CIA station in Rome, where he could do little additional damage to the Kennedy's ongoing agenda." 39. He bade good-bye to his assassin-in-charge, Johnny Rosselli, at a booze-drenched dinner under the amazed surveillance of the mobster's FBI shadow detail, and then set sail for the old country. 40. From then on, the mob would no longer be gunning for Fidel, officially or otherwise."
"….In the new plotting, the goal was to find disaffected military brass within Castro's inner clique who would spearhead his 'elimination' and takeover. At Bobby's directive, FitzGerald quickly generated a list of sabotage targets in Cuba , directed at infrastructure, and set to commence in July at a rate of one target per month. In the course of that pursuit, twenty-five CIA agents, mostly Cuban exiles recruited as commandos, would end up being killed or captured in five raids on the island in the coming year. 41. Additionally, Des would pay particular attention to the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, still in existence even after the New York plot had been thwarted the previous November. The secret war, both at home and abroad, had barely skipped a beat."
In the meantime, "Working at the photo company Jaggars-Chiles-Stoval, Lee actually had a job he loved, for the first time ever…."
But when it comes to paying his debts, "Where the money came from was not determined then, and has been speculated on for nearly half a century. According to Oscar Marino, the money was provided by the Cubans, in modest amounts, either by Rolando Cubela or some other G2 contact."
(p. 245) "It as hard for Bobby to regain Jack's attention on the Fidel business…and their history suggests that he was not as certain that Fidel had to be killed as Bobby was…"
(p.246) "…Back in Washington, however, not everyone was fully prepared for how blatant the talk of Fidel's assassination had become, especially since the appalling events of the past October. But at a CCC meeting that took place twelve days after its creation, on February 20, and attended by Jack's aid Ralph Dungan, Cyrus Vance, Richard Helms, Des FitzGerald, Bobby, the cautious Robert Hurwitch from State, and Califano, it was abundantly clear that murder was the first item on the CCC's agenda."
"Califano, young, idealistic, and devoted to his boss Cy Vance, was unnerved. He suddenly thought Bobby was obsessed with Castro….even reckless with regard to Fidel. The subtext was obvious. No one tiptoed around it anymore, except with the thinnest euphemisms. When he left the meeting, Califano sensed that Castro was as walking dead man."
"Vance shared the suspicion, and he was livid. The whole Cuban project had taken on this barbershop atmosphere, he said, 'Too many people at the table, low-level aides sitting against the wall…when 'actions' like this, however discreetly, are being discussed.' I took this comment to mean that he understood what I suspected: Bobby Kennedy and his brother wanted Castro assassinated."
"Califano guessed that Des FitzGerald was caught up in the plots, maybe even the spearhead, 'since he was the point man for covert raids and other dirty tricks to disrupt Cuba.": 50
"Joe Califano's objections seem almost quaint now. Compunction about such things was still an integral part of the moral code of most of the people in high office back then…."
But wait a minute Gus, Vance, and Califano didn't object to plotting the assassination of Castro, they're objecting about too many people in the room knowing about what they were planning to do.
(p. 254) "There is impressive evidence that Lee had already been in contact with Rolando Cubela by this time, either via correspondence, on the phone, in person, or though some G2 'cut out.' In preparing himself to kill Walker, Lee was auditioning for the Cubans. One of the books he had been reading this month was called How to Be a Spy."
(p. 266) "In 2005, the first direct proof of the Oswald and Rolando Cubela connection was revealed, when Nikolai located a KGB folio on Cubela that contained CIA debriefing files of Cubela smuggled out of Langley by a KGB 'penetration agent.' In one of those files, it was noted that Cubela had named the shooter in the General Edwin Walker case as a Dallas resident named Lee Oswald. This file, said Nikolai, was from the late spring or early summer of 1963."
"The source of this information, whether given directly to Cubela or conveyed to him through a cutout of some sort, could only have been Lee himself….."
But wait a minute Gus, DeMohrenschildt suspected Oswald took the shot at Walker and mentioned it to Oswald himself, and probably to his CIA contact, J. Walter Moore, the former OSS agent who served in China with Charles D. Ford, the CIA JMWAVE agent who liasoned with RFK. And then there's Col. Jose Rivera (USAR), who also expressed knowledge of Oswald's role in the Walker shooting in DC on April 20th, ten days after the fact.
Except, among numerous other things, uh.....Castro wasn't that STUPID!
-Bill O
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The proof of Oswald's innocence in the downtown shooting is this:
Junior Jarman and Hank Norman did not begin their walk to the fifth floor until they'd heard - either over a police radio or through the buzz of the crowd after someone else had heard it - that the motorcade was on Main Street. This was mentioned on Channel 2 two times, once at 12:22 and again at either 12:26 or 12:27, but the earliest time 12:22.
They walked from the front of the building, up Houston Street and entered the building, first noting that the passenger elevator was not in its first-floor stop, then walking around to the freight elevator, which they rode up to, according to their testimony, the fifth floor. There was nobody else on that floor as they made their way to the front windows. This walk and elevator ride - the latter at one floor every six seconds, or 24 seconds total - could have taken as little as a minute and a half, possibly a little shorter or longer.
Bonnie Ray Williams had been on the sixth floor, claimed that he'd heard footsteps or something below him, and rode the passenger elevator - that he'd taken up during the lunch hour - down to the fifth floor, where he joined his compatriots at the front windows. Only Hank Norman equivocated about whether Bonnie Ray was there when he and Junior had gotten there or if he joined them later; the other two agreed he joined the two of them later.
Also on both the fifth and sixth floors, "getting stock," was "great big husky fellow" Jack Dougherty, whom none of the three claimed to have seen.
If Bonnie Ray ate his lunch where he said he did and where remnants were later found, there is no way anyone could have been in the southeast corner without being seen or heard by him: anyone who's stood at the end of the next set of windows from the "sniper's nest" exhibit on the sixth floor would agree.
If anyone planned on shooting at Kennedy, they'd have had to have been ready to do so no later than 12:25 when the motorcade was scheduled to arrive (five minutes before the 12:30 luncheon at the Trade Mart), and earlier in case the motorcade was ahead of schedule.
If Hank and Junior didn't start to go upstairs until after 12:22 and Bonnie Ray was upstairs until after the other two had arrived on the fifth floor, then Bonnie Ray was on the sixth floor even later than the latest he'd estimated (12:15), to within a minute or so before 12:25 or - if Hank and Junior didn't start up until after the 12:26/27 broadcast of the motorcade's being on Main Street, as late as 12:28 or even 12:29.
Either of those times being so, Bonnie Ray was on the sixth floor when whoever was setting up to shoot was there, and within 20 feet or less from him or them. That being so, if the shooter was Oswald, by the time Williams had much to say to anyone, Oswald was dead: what harm could there possibly be in identifying him as the shooter, eyewitnessed by someone who knew him?
When he heard what he thought was a "backfire," Jack Dougherty was standing "10 feet west of the west elevator," that is, right smack dab where the fleeing Oswald had to have run to get downstairs in time to meet Baker & Truly in the second floor lunch room. Dougherty remained there with the gate up until after Truly yelled up to "let that elevator loose" and began his ascent with Baker by stairs. If Oswald didn't run by - or even into - Jack Dougherty, then he didn't run down the stairs to the lunchroom.
There's more to the story, but this is sufficient to mark the main points: Williams didn't see Oswald and neither did Jack Dougherty, ergo Oswald wasn't there. If they saw anyone else, they didn't say ... and if they saw anyone other than Oswald, they may very well have had something to fear. But if Oswald had done what he supposedly did, then there'd have been no reason not to identify him.
Exactly! Also, if Oswald was indeed there assembling the snipers lair etc., he would have probably heard the elevator coming up.
This would have caused him to stop what he was doing, to ascertain just which floor it's occupants were getting off at. This would have delayed his preperations even further, and made his security very precarious at a crucial time.
-Bill
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Why Lee Harvey Oswald is innocent of being the 6th Floor Sniper.
1) All of those witnesses who saw a man in the TSBD window with a rifle said he was wearing a white shirt with open colar or light colored clothing. Oswald wore a brown shirt. Oswald's Shirt: CE 150
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=138183
2) One witness who saw a gunman in the 6th floor window with a rifle also said that when taking aim, he could see that he had a bald spot on the top of his head, which is like an identifying tatoo, and an attribute that Oswald lacked that the real gunman had.
3) At least one witness saw a man in the windows of the 6th floor with a rifle at 12:15 pm, when Oswald was seen on the first floor.
4) DPD officer Baker, within two minutes of the assassination, saw Oswald through the door window in the vestible of the 2nd floor lunchroom, which, as Howard Roffman points out and is quite clear at the end of the Secret Service filmed reenactment, that to see someone in that window they had to enter the vestibule from the other door, which leads to the first floor, exactly where Oswald said he was and where he was seen at 12:15. Which means he didn't come down the steps as the Warren Commission contends.
5) The Secret Service didn't bother continuing their reconstruction of the alleged assassin's movements after the encounter between Oswald and Baker in the lunchroom, but if they had it would also be quite clear that he couldn't have been in all the locations that are attributed to him.
There are a number of "legs" in the trip - from the front steps of the TSBD, six blocks down the street heading east, getting on a bus heading west, getting off the bus and into a taxi three to five blocks past his rooming house and walking back, entering his rooming house, changing his slacks and grabbing a gun and a jacket and last seen standing at a bus stop going back into the city.
From there you end up at 10th and Patton, blocks away. How come NOBODY saw him walking this distance? No one sitting on their porch, noone driving by, no one walking near him? Some even contend that he had somehow gone past 10th and Patton and was walking back in that direction, which means he most certainly got a ride from someone.
Then there's Tippit stopping the pedestrian (Oswald?), the shooting of the policeman, and the running across the lawn, dropping shells and reloading - where'd he get the bullets? Through the ally and onto Jefferson, past the used car lot, into the Texaco lot, ditching the jacket under the car, and reports of the suspect entering a church and furniture store nearby. Then the suspect is seen at the shoe store, where the shoe salesman recognized him from having sold a pair of shoes to him a few weeks before, and his furtive movements arrouse suspicion enough that he leaves the store with two IBM embloyees there, and follows the suspect to the theater where he is seen entering without a ticket.
The candy counter guy said he thought Oswald had entered the theater earlier, but when the cops arrive, the shoe salesman points out Oswald, and there's a scuffle and a Oswald's gun misfires.
So now we have the accused assassin of the President, who also wounded Governor Connally and James Tague, killing a cop at 10th and Patton and attempting to kill another cop in the theater, which makes him a Spree Killer as well as an assassin, having assaulted people at three different locations.
Except there has never been a situation before or since where a Spree Killer has done this. And we are to accept that he did these things because he was a nut case, suddenly sparked to kill because his wife wouldn't move back with him?
If it sounds crazy, and unlikely, and never happened before or since, it probably didn't happen that way.
If you want to review the case of a real Spree Killer see Howard Unruh, Camden, N.J., 1949.
Now we have to figure out how it really happened.
Oswald wasn't the Sixth Floor sniper and probably didn't kill Tippit.
BK
Os was evidently expecting to followed back to the area of his rooming house by somebody. IMO that's why he had the cab driver go past the rooming house and drop him off several blocks up Beckley. This gave him the opportunity to scope the rooming house as they drove by, and then approach it with caution on foot from a safe distance. Had that Police car (that honked twice) come by and parked and in front of the house as he was approaching... and he saw it, who knows what he would have done ,or how differently things might have turned out !?
-Bill O
Also,
At this point in time nobody supposedly knew that location of his living quarters. So why all the caution and doubling back? Who was he fearfull of, so soon after leaving the SBD?
-Bill O
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Why Lee Harvey Oswald is innocent of being the 6th Floor Sniper.
1) All of those witnesses who saw a man in the TSBD window with a rifle said he was wearing a white shirt with open colar or light colored clothing. Oswald wore a brown shirt. Oswald's Shirt: CE 150
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=138183
2) One witness who saw a gunman in the 6th floor window with a rifle also said that when taking aim, he could see that he had a bald spot on the top of his head, which is like an identifying tatoo, and an attribute that Oswald lacked that the real gunman had.
3) At least one witness saw a man in the windows of the 6th floor with a rifle at 12:15 pm, when Oswald was seen on the first floor.
4) DPD officer Baker, within two minutes of the assassination, saw Oswald through the door window in the vestible of the 2nd floor lunchroom, which, as Howard Roffman points out and is quite clear at the end of the Secret Service filmed reenactment, that to see someone in that window they had to enter the vestibule from the other door, which leads to the first floor, exactly where Oswald said he was and where he was seen at 12:15. Which means he didn't come down the steps as the Warren Commission contends.
5) The Secret Service didn't bother continuing their reconstruction of the alleged assassin's movements after the encounter between Oswald and Baker in the lunchroom, but if they had it would also be quite clear that he couldn't have been in all the locations that are attributed to him.
There are a number of "legs" in the trip - from the front steps of the TSBD, six blocks down the street heading east, getting on a bus heading west, getting off the bus and into a taxi three to five blocks past his rooming house and walking back, entering his rooming house, changing his slacks and grabbing a gun and a jacket and last seen standing at a bus stop going back into the city.
From there you end up at 10th and Patton, blocks away. How come NOBODY saw him walking this distance? No one sitting on their porch, noone driving by, no one walking near him? Some even contend that he had somehow gone past 10th and Patton and was walking back in that direction, which means he most certainly got a ride from someone.
Then there's Tippit stopping the pedestrian (Oswald?), the shooting of the policeman, and the running across the lawn, dropping shells and reloading - where'd he get the bullets? Through the ally and onto Jefferson, past the used car lot, into the Texaco lot, ditching the jacket under the car, and reports of the suspect entering a church and furniture store nearby. Then the suspect is seen at the shoe store, where the shoe salesman recognized him from having sold a pair of shoes to him a few weeks before, and his furtive movements arrouse suspicion enough that he leaves the store with two IBM embloyees there, and follows the suspect to the theater where he is seen entering without a ticket.
The candy counter guy said he thought Oswald had entered the theater earlier, but when the cops arrive, the shoe salesman points out Oswald, and there's a scuffle and a Oswald's gun misfires.
So now we have the accused assassin of the President, who also wounded Governor Connally and James Tague, killing a cop at 10th and Patton and attempting to kill another cop in the theater, which makes him a Spree Killer as well as an assassin, having assaulted people at three different locations.
Except there has never been a situation before or since where a Spree Killer has done this. And we are to accept that he did these things because he was a nut case, suddenly sparked to kill because his wife wouldn't move back with him?
If it sounds crazy, and unlikely, and never happened before or since, it probably didn't happen that way.
If you want to review the case of a real Spree Killer see Howard Unruh, Camden, N.J., 1949.
Now we have to figure out how it really happened.
Oswald wasn't the Sixth Floor sniper and probably didn't kill Tippit.
BK
Os was evidently expecting to followed back to the area of his rooming house by somebody. IMO that's why he had the cab driver go past the rooming house and drop him off several blocks up Beckley. This gave him the opportunity to scope the rooming house as they drove by, and then approach it with caution on foot from a safe distance. Had that Police car (that honked twice) come by and parked and in front of the house as he was approaching... and he saw it, who knows what he would have done ,or how differently things might have turned out !?
-Bill O
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Did anyone attend the JFK Lancer November in Dallas 2008 conference on November 21-23?
If so, please post about the speakers and presentations.
Any information would be appreciated, including news from Abraham Bolden and James Lesar's fight for documents.
Larry Hancock was listed as a speaker. Mr. Hancock, your thoughts and observations?
Steve
I attended the conference, I'll just say it was very good. Especially Abe Bolden, who was very emotionally moving, as he recalled his days at the White House, the racism in the SS etc. Good stuff on the medical evidence from Collin McSween. Ed Martino (John's son) was interesting as well, as he recalled his unusual childhood memories of his Dad. Larry did a great presentation about the RFK case and the movements of suspects in the Ambassador Hotel.
All in all , it was worth it , but Man, was it cold there! (36Deg)
-Bill
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Over the last few weeks I have heard from various people, mostly of conservative bent, that consistantly declare 'Obama will not survive the first year in office.....he will be killed'
The same forces and attitudes that induced the assassinations of the 60's, is alive and well, and lurking just below the surface.
Recall the very same rhetoric about those slain previously..
-Bill
Was not the last American President to be shot dear old Ronald Reagan?
Was it a lone gunman or something more sinister I wonder?
Wallace and Reagan were shot for different reasons, more likely internal party wars... IMO.
Peter, The folks I'm talking about, don't give a damn who Obama's staff or cabnet consists of. They don't want a Ni**er in the White House! Period!
There blinded by their hatred, which is why they consistantly vote against their own self interest, and are consumed by backwards notions.
-Bill
Just to clarify
, the phrase 'Ni**er in the White House' should be in quotations above, as this was something I heard another declare.-Bill
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Over the last few weeks I have heard from various people, mostly of conservative bent, that consistantly declare 'Obama will not survive the first year in office.....he will be killed'
The same forces and attitudes that induced the assassinations of the 60's, is alive and well, and lurking just below the surface.
Recall the very same rhetoric about those slain previously..
-Bill
Was not the last American President to be shot dear old Ronald Reagan?
Was it a lone gunman or something more sinister I wonder?
Wallace and Reagan were shot for different reasons, more likely internal party wars... IMO.
Peter, The folks I'm talking about, don't give a damn who Obama's staff or cabnet consists of. They don't want a Ni**er in the White House! Period!
There blinded by their hatred, which is why they consistantly vote against their own self interest, and are consumed by backwards notions.
-Bill
-
Over the last few weeks I have heard from various people, mostly of conservative bent, that consistantly declare 'Obama will not survive the first year in office.....he will be killed'
The same forces and attitudes that induced the assassinations of the 60's, is alive and well, and lurking just below the surface.
Recall the very same rhetoric about those slain previously..
I fear for his life, let's hope he has more loyal and dedicated protection than JFK did.
-Bill
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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Contact:
Elizabeth Hillman: 240.662.2664
October 30, 2008 elizabeth_hill...@discovery.com – OR –
Joshua Weinberg: 240.662.5274
joshua_weinb...@discovery.com
DISCOVERY CHANNEL’S ‘JFK: INSIDE THE TARGET CAR’ EMPLOYS
STATE OF THE ART FORENSIC SCIENCE THAT YIELDS DEFINITIVE PROOF:
THE FATAL SHOT WAS FIRED FROM THE TEXAS SCHOOL BOOK DEPOSITORY
-- World Premiere One-Hour Special Airs Sunday, November 16, 2008, at
9 PM (ET/PT) --
(Silver Spring, Md.) –- Marking the 45th anniversary of the
assassination of President John F. Kennedy, Discovery Channel examines
that fateful day in Dallas, methodically employing cutting-edge
forensics and Zapruder film archives to definitively prove that the
fatal bullet was fired from the Texas School Book Depository. The
investigation is detailed in a world premiere special JFK: INSIDE THE
TARGET CAR, premiering Sunday, November 16, 2008, at 9 PM (ET/PT).
Decades after the Warren Commission determined that three shots were
fired from the Depository building; theories still linger about
additional locations and accomplices. To find the answers once and for
all, Discovery Channel assembles a team of experts to set up an array
of ballistic tests, trajectory analysis and the latest in forensic
artificial body creation.
To ensure the greatest accuracy in testing all possible theories, the
producers of the special traveled to Adelaide, Australia to employ
Adelaide T&E Systems, an engineering company that specializes in
creating exact human specimens utilized in military weaponry
development. Working with Kennedy’s hat size they create a replica –
matching the size and density of a human head. A special effects team
also built the Presidential limousine passenger area to finite
specification.
“JFK: INSIDE THE TARGET CAR is the latest example of using
break-through technology to authenticate scientific theories,” said
John Ford, president and general manager, Discovery Channel. “This
special encompasses an intensive forensic investigation that proves
the origin of the fatal bullet. It’s momentous for the network to
help support the science behind this definitive evidence.”
DISCOVERY CHANNEL / JFK – Page 2
The investigation team includes Gary Mack, Curator of The Sixth Floor
Museum at Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas and a 25-year veteran of
Kennedy investigations; world renowned sharpshooter Michael Yardley;
Wesley Fisk, Chief Operating Officer of Adelaide T&E Systems; and
veteran crime scene and forensic examiners Tom Bevel and Steve
Schlieble. A graduate of Britain’s Royal Military Academy Sandhurst,
Yardley has won more than 500 competitions as a civilian marksman.
To further assemble the pieces of the puzzle, the special interviews
key players from that November day. Jack McNairy and H.B. McLain are
two eyewitnesses who saw the blood-splattered limo before the Secret
Service ordered it cleaned and sent back to Washington D.C. Bobby
Hargis, a Dallas police officer in 1963 riding directly behind the
limo, provides crucial information about the effects of gunfire. And
finally, in one of her last recorded interviews, the late Nellie
Connally, who, with her husband, Texas Governor John Connally, was in
the car with President and Mrs. Kennedy.
Yardley looks through the scope of a high-powered rifle from four
different possible angles focused on a duplicate Presidential
limousine. The limo is in the exact spot where Kennedy was fired on
and filled with actors the same size as the passengers that day. From
vantage points at the south end of the overpass, the north end of the
overpass and on the grassy knoll, Yardley determines whether a shot
could have come from a second gunman at any of these spots.
After careful analysis of possible shot locations, the forensics team
structures, on a California firing range, the exact distances, angles,
and even wind speed in Dallas on November 22, 1963. High-speed
cameras roll as Yardley takes his best shot at the head replicas,
utilizing a Mannlicher Carcano rifle - the same type supposedly used
by Lee Harvey Oswald.
The results of these precision ballistics tests provide some clear
answers to the events that unfolded in Dealey Plaza. Comparing the
splatter patterns from these test angles, with the historical evidence
gleaned from eyewitness testimony and Secret Service reports, as well
as an exact digitized overlay of the Zapruder film, the forensic team
draws the definitive conclusion that the fatal shot could have only
come from the sixth floor window of the Book Depository and not
anywhere else, just as the Warren Commission determined in 1964.
DISCOVERY CHANNEL / JFK – Page 3
JFK: INSIDE THE TARGET CAR is the culmination of a four-part
investigative mini-series that has been supported by and aired on
Discovery Channel over the last five years. DEATH IN DEALEY PLAZA
(2003) analyzed all the photography of the assassination. JFK
CONSPIRACIES (2004) offered a detailed recreation of Lee Harvey
Oswald’s movements on the day of the assassination. Finally, BEHIND
THE MAGIC BULLET (2005) fired and closely duplicated the trajectory of
the so called “magic bullet” using many of the same forensic
investigators featured in JFK: INSIDE THE TARGET CAR.
Screeners are available as well as interviews with Gary Mack, Jack
McNairy and H.B. McLain and Executive Producer Erik Nelson.
JFK: INSIDE THE TARGET CAR is produced for Discovery Channel by
Creative Differences. Erik Nelson is executive producer and writer
for Creative Differences. Suzy Geller-Wolf is executive producer for
Discovery Channel.
About Discovery Channel
DISCOVERY CHANNEL (DSC) is dedicated to creating the highest quality
non-fiction content that informs and entertains its consumers about
the world in all its wonder, diversity and amazement. The network,
which reaches 98.1 million viewers in the US, can be seen in over 170
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Ah yes , right on time for the anniversary season, as usual.
It's gotten so I don't even have to look at my calender.
-Bill
-
It seems widely accepted that Leopoldo is Bernardo De Torres.
I don't have a strong opinion about it but he does fit Odio's description.
Whereas I've seen Angelo ID'd as both Angel Murgado/Kennedy and Edwin Collins.
For example, there even seems to be contradiction within Spartacus (which is unusual):
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKtorres.htm
"The following day Leopoldo phoned Odio and told her that Leon was a former Marine and that he was an expert marksman. He added that Leon had said “we Cubans, we did not have the guts because we should have assassinated Kennedy after the Bay of Pigs”. It is believed that De Torres was Leopoldo and Edwin Collins was Angelo."
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmurgado.htm
"Bernardo de Torres and Murgado visited Sylvia Odio on 25th September, 1963. When they arrived, Lee Harvey Oswald was also in the apartment."
What do you all think about Angelo's identity?
I'm confused about the prospect of Edwin Collins as Angelo. Wasn't Collins American? And Odio described the two as Latin, probably Mexican. Did Collins have a Latin background? There's a photo of him at the first link and it looks like he could appear to be Mexican or Cuban.
Myra;
The "Angelo" question was pretty well resolved by Gerry Hemming. And, although GPH's statements should rightfully be questioned, I do not question the son of Angelo Murgado/aka Angel Kennedy.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=5333&st=30
My father has for lack of a better word, made me his representative, so I speak for him when I write this. When my father went to meet with Silvia, he has assured me that Oswald was already in the apartment. The only reason Oswald was known to my father was the same way most of New Orleans new him...through the newspaper and other media outlets. Oswald if you remember was working very hard at getting himself noticed. My father says he never even shock hands with Oswald nor did he speak with him as his business was with Sylvia. At no time did my father have any type of association with Oswald besides this brief encounter.
Amaury Murgado (son of Angel/Angelo Murgado) is a retired NCO from the United States Army Special Forces.
His credentials are impeccable, and were it that his father was anything other than a true patriot of the Cuban Freedom fighters, then one can be assured that Amaury Murgado would never have been entrusted to the postion which he has ultimately received.
This is one of those areas in which the knowledge of GPH has helped to eliminate suspicion from some (such as Angel Murgado), while also pointing to those aspects of LHO's activities which demonstrate that someone was "feeding" him information which he could use to attempt to point the finger at the Cuban Freedom Fighters.
What information, and which 'Cuban Freedom Fighters' ?
-Bill
which 'Cuban Freedom Fighters' ?
Bay of Pigs survivors!
What information
LHO, according to Murgado, was there waiting when they arrived at the residence. Therefore, unless one is a believer in massive circumstance, then someone would have had to inform LHO of the predicted presence of Anti-Castro Cubans at the location.
In being present with these persons, LHO managed to "cast a smell" on them (along with all of the other false scents/trails which he left) as if he had some connection to the anti-Castro faction.
(Sound Familiar to anyone?)
However, this "coincidental" meeting, assuming that it was not coincidence, points back to a "common ground" which had the ability to manipulate the Anti-Castro faction as well as feed information to LHO as to where and when to be somewhere that he could cast suspicion in their direction.
Just as in many other instances of LHO's actions.
Thomas, There were two different Cuban factions or philosophies represented at this supposed ''meeting". JURE (Sylvia) was supposedly not simpatico with the likes of Torres, and or Murgado. Yet even that is not certain, as Sarita's (DRE) associations suggest.
It's still not clear who was zoomin' who there, IMO
-Bill
-
It seems widely accepted that Leopoldo is Bernardo De Torres.
I don't have a strong opinion about it but he does fit Odio's description.
Whereas I've seen Angelo ID'd as both Angel Murgado/Kennedy and Edwin Collins.
For example, there even seems to be contradiction within Spartacus (which is unusual):
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKtorres.htm
"The following day Leopoldo phoned Odio and told her that Leon was a former Marine and that he was an expert marksman. He added that Leon had said “we Cubans, we did not have the guts because we should have assassinated Kennedy after the Bay of Pigs”. It is believed that De Torres was Leopoldo and Edwin Collins was Angelo."
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmurgado.htm
"Bernardo de Torres and Murgado visited Sylvia Odio on 25th September, 1963. When they arrived, Lee Harvey Oswald was also in the apartment."
What do you all think about Angelo's identity?
I'm confused about the prospect of Edwin Collins as Angelo. Wasn't Collins American? And Odio described the two as Latin, probably Mexican. Did Collins have a Latin background? There's a photo of him at the first link and it looks like he could appear to be Mexican or Cuban.
Myra;
The "Angelo" question was pretty well resolved by Gerry Hemming. And, although GPH's statements should rightfully be questioned, I do not question the son of Angelo Murgado/aka Angel Kennedy.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=5333&st=30
My father has for lack of a better word, made me his representative, so I speak for him when I write this. When my father went to meet with Silvia, he has assured me that Oswald was already in the apartment. The only reason Oswald was known to my father was the same way most of New Orleans new him...through the newspaper and other media outlets. Oswald if you remember was working very hard at getting himself noticed. My father says he never even shock hands with Oswald nor did he speak with him as his business was with Sylvia. At no time did my father have any type of association with Oswald besides this brief encounter.
Amaury Murgado (son of Angel/Angelo Murgado) is a retired NCO from the United States Army Special Forces.
His credentials are impeccable, and were it that his father was anything other than a true patriot of the Cuban Freedom fighters, then one can be assured that Amaury Murgado would never have been entrusted to the postion which he has ultimately received.
This is one of those areas in which the knowledge of GPH has helped to eliminate suspicion from some (such as Angel Murgado), while also pointing to those aspects of LHO's activities which demonstrate that someone was "feeding" him information which he could use to attempt to point the finger at the Cuban Freedom Fighters.
What information, and which 'Cuban Freedom Fighters' ?
-Bill
-
You made me laugh out aloud with these comments. I think humour and tolerance is the best way to deal with characters like Mike. Actually, I considered members acted with great restraint on the closed thread. Thank you for that.
Well, Bill has shown the humor and Bernie has delivered the tolerance. They're both class acts.
But in the end, this isn't - at least shouldn't be - about Bernie, Bill, me or Mike. It's about the JFK case, and what can be contributed to it.
Mike seems to want the other thread unlocked, and fwiw, since everyone has calmed down, I think it should be. Maybe Mike does have more to put on the table, and maybe he'll also now be prepared to tackle issues raised by playing the ball and not the man.
If it is unlocked, and I decide to post further to it, I'll make a commitment to follow the examples set here.
And Bill, golf may be the one thing that proves the existence of Satan.
The thread has been unlocked.
UH oh......FORE!!
-Bill
-
James,Does anyone know what the bottom photograph displayed in this image below is?
That is of course Honest Joe doing the pointing.
James
It looks like he is pointing to various pictures of Jack Ruby, but what the significance is, I don't know.
Steve Thomas
I agree, looks like a series of pic's of Ruby, during the trial period (?) Seems to me, If I recall correctly Joe was a bud of Ruby's.
-
John, Im pretty sure John Dolva already has a thread going on this. Very worthwhile site, though.
John, Im pretty sure John Dolva already has a thread going on this. Very worthwhile site, though.
Having been responsible for "opening" this door to important links, John Dolva certainly recognized that there existed a wealth of background information there.
Might I add, it is a sight for those who conduct RESEARCH!
Such as Robert Oswald, Lawyer; Judge; as well as distant cousin of LHO, and a member of those groups fighting to keep Gulf Coast Beaches for "White Only" at the same period of time that LHO was at Keesler AFB, Biloxi, mS.
And, since the head of the Soverignty Commission was originally a Lucedale, MS native and is buried here, as well as having known him personally, then one could, not unlike other aspects, say that I had a "heads up" on exatly what was going on down here in MS. The original "home" of the Oswalds.
So, those who are actually into research, have known about the Soverignty Commission for a long, long time, provided that they read this forum.
And, John Dolva has recognized the "worth" of that research.
If he does not get lost in looking for "Postmaster Assassins", then he just may find additional information of value there, as it most assuredly exists and has yet to be revealed.
As example: One certainly has to honor any organization which has as it's initials "CSA"!
There are also files of the MSC at the Univ. of Southern Missisippi. I looked at those before the main collection became available. I think most of the material at USM, is also contained in the main collection in Jackson MS.
-Bill
-
Well, it's unlikely that these two men could fit in the "snipers nest", as photographed. The 5th floor keeps coming into play, as you read the various reports.
-Bill
-
Bill,
Harold took a bunch pictures of Garrison subjects down to the print shop and showed them to the Jones and Myra Silver. They picked out 4 pic's of Kerry Thornley as looking most like the person who picked up the order.
Weisberg told us he was reluctant to name Thornley, as he had doubts about his guilt after talking to David Lifton.
-Bill O
Thanks,
Thornley was there, and was sitting with Oswald in a French Quarter joint by a women who joined them at the table, and she described some of their conversation. When confronted with this years later, Thornley said he might have been sitting with Oswald talking, but he didn't recognize him as a guy he served with in USMC, which is hard to swallow.
Harold had doubts of Thornley's guilt of what? That he knew LHO in USMC and New Orleans in summer of '63, or guilt of being part of a conspiracy? Or that he doubts the veracity of Jones people that it actually was Thornley?
Harold was quick to judge and hard to change his mind.
If it was Thornley, then did the leaflets go from Thornley to Quiroga to Oswald?
Maybe David Lifton can shed some light on this. Since I can't wait for his book to come out maybe we can nudge him to answer.
Also, no one has answered my question as to the present whereabouts of Quiroga. Does anybody know if he is still alive and living in New Orleans or elsewhere?
And Bill, did I tell you before that I knew another Bill O'Neil, a red head guitarist for the Temptations?
BK
Weisberg said he was no longer sure, that Thornley was in NO's at the same time as Os. Or, that he had ever impersonated Os. yet he was puzzled about the ID of Jones and Silva, which he later re-confirmed after doubts were raised. I think he may have filmed or taped that 2nd interview, to show Garrison.... my mind is a little vague on that.
Well , I play guitar but, no red hair!
-Bill
-
Bill,
Harold took a bunch pictures of Garrison subjects down to the print shop and showed them to the Jones and Myra Silver. They picked out 4 pic's of Kerry Thornley as looking most like the person who picked up the order.
Weisberg told us he was reluctant to name Thornley, as he had doubts about his guilt after talking to David Lifton.
-Bill O
-
An article that appeared in Inside Higher Education
http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2008/03/19/mclemee
The Truth? I Can’t Handle the Truth!
By Scott McLemee
Harvard University Press has just issued a book promulgating a JFK assassination conspiracy theory.
Let’s put that sentence on the chalkboard and underscore the anthropologically interesting aspects of the situation, shall we? Harvard University Press has just issued a book promulgating a JFK assassination conspiracy theory.
Within the continuum of any given culture, there is what the structuralists used to call the combinatoire – the underlying grid of distinctions and exclusions, an implicit directory of what goes with what (and, just as important, what doesn’t). So the appearance of The Road to Dallas: The Assassination of John F. Kennedy by David Kaiser counts, arguably, as something more than a piece of publishing news. That, too. But we may be talking here about something like a mutation in the cultural genome.
That said, the book’s argument does not exactly qualify as a paradigm shift. Kaiser, who is a professor of strategy and policy at the Naval War College and the author of two earlier books published by Harvard, argues that Lee Harvey Oswald pulled the trigger as a result of machinations within “a complex network of relationships among mobsters, hit men, intelligence agents, Cuban exiles, and America’s Cold War foreign policy.” To make this case, Kaiser examines an enormous mass of documents that have been declassified since 1992. “Hundreds of books on the Kennedy assassination have appeared,” he writes, “but this is the first one written by a professional historian who has researched the available archives.” Perhaps, but it is also a variation on certain familiar themes.
For an academic to take a deep interest in JFK conspiracy theories is unusual but hardly unprecedented. One of the very first books in the genre was Six Seconds in Dallas: A Micro-Study of the Kennedy Assassination (1967), the work of a philosopher named Josiah Thompson, who later achieved tenure at Haverford College on the basis of his scholarly work concerning Soren Kierkegaard’s existentialist writings. In the mid-1970s, Thompson turned his back on academic life and became a private detective. As career changes go, it seems the stuff of daydreams.
Over the decade following Thompson’s pioneering “micro-study,” research into JFK conspiratology turned into an almost professionalized field of inquiry – even if those pursuing it tended to be amateurs, not to say hobbyists. By the late 1970s, eager new conspiracy theorists were warned by their elders not to try to master the entire discipline. Instead, they should choose some overlooked corner of the assassination (“who was Oswald’s landlady really?” perhaps) and become the recognized expert on it. Sound familiar?
“Publish or perish” seems to have kicked in as well. So I discovered in 1991 while working as an archival technician at the Library of Congress. The extent of the LC’s holdings can be overwhelming to confront – more than 500 miles of shelves, with books overflowing them and accumulating in the aisles. The stacks can induce an experience that feels rather like what Kant called “the mathematical sublime.” This is the feeling of being shaken by the sheer magnitude of a natural phenomenon that is far more enormous than anything you can quite wrap your mind around. Trying to imagine just how vast a galaxy must be, given that we fill just one small part of a single solar system, for example, gives a taste of the mathematical sublime.
By that standard, perhaps, the library stacks are not quite cosmically mindblowing. Still, it’s probably for the best that they are off limits to the public, which might otherwise wander them in a total daze.
After a while, you learn out the bookish sublime. But I blundered right into another version of it one day, thanks to an aisle located on one floor loaded with U.S. history titles. One end of the aisle was dominated by the original edition of the complete Warren Commission Report. This was for many years the mother lode of all debate and conjecture on the Kennedy assassination. It runs to 26 volumes, and there were two full sets. The spines told of heavy use.
They were an impressive sight. But more overwhelming was the next row of books – and the row after that, then the row after that. Volume after volume (running to the hundreds) lingered over the events of that day in November 1963, analyzing every aspect of the event you could imagine, and some you probably couldn’t. Overlooked suspects were named. Their means, motives, and opportunities were documented at length. The official account was refuted, again and again; and the theorists debunked one another, as well.
It was hard to take in, not just how prolific the conspiracy people were, but how thoroughly their attention had absorbed every possible detail from the record – extracting meanings from it, but diverse and contradictory meanings. Each fact fed several interpretations. Every interpretation generated suspicion. Which meant, in turn, more research and theorizing – more facts, and more analysis, and more suspicion. The question of who killed JFK, and why, was clearly inexhaustible. Or at least the passion for reopening the question was. It seemed bottomless, like an abyss.
This was scholarship, of a kind. But it tended not be cumulative. No synthesis could ever reconcile all of the arguments, or even most of them. (Only the intrepid reporters at The Onion have ever come close.) The conspiracy researchers formed a community, yet their theories were monads.
Later, I found out that Josiah Thompson had published a book about Soren Kierkegaard’s pseudonymous writings on faith and solitude at the very same time his Six Seconds in Dallas appeared. The title of his monograph was The Lonely Labyrinth – a really perfect description, too, of the world within those hundreds of JFK volumes.
How is it that the latest gallery within the labyrinth is a book published by Harvard University Press? Why did one of the country’s most distinguished scholarly publishers decide to contribute to a genre that has flourished mainly on the cultural margins for almost five decades?
This line of inquiry interested me a lot more than the one pursued by David Kaiser in The Road to Dallas. I mean no disrespect to the author. His previous works of scholarship – a macrohistorical account of European warfare and a study of American policy during the Vietnam conflict – have been well received by his colleagues. And The Road to Dallas is a sober book, with none of the fervid whirligigs of logic found in some other titles in the field, even by academics.
But it is a work of conspiracy theory, all the same. It follows some of the familiar protocols of the genre. Kaiser examines documents that were released in the wake of Oliver Stone’s “JFK” – a film he calls irresponsible, but important for creating pressure on the government to declassify thousands of records. And there is the standard “Cui bono?” clincher. Who benefited? For Stone, it was LBJ and the military-industrial complex. For Kaiser, the answer is equally clear: “The killing of President Kennedy, followed by the resignation less than a year later of Robert Kennedy as attorney general, seriously curtailed the government’s effort to clean up organized crime – as it was intended to do.”
But the idea that some new mass of evidence will solve the mystery once and for all is what has kept the whole conspiratological process going all these years. Finality is not the name of this game. New charges of concealment will always double back upon any supposed revelation. “The Central Intelligence Agency has nothing to do with Kennedy’s assassination,” wrotes Kaiser, despite its extensive involvement with both organized crime and its attempts to kill Fidel Castro (or at very least deprive him of the power associated with his beard). You can imagine how other conspiracy theorists, academic or otherwise, will pick over that argument – especially given that the author is a professor at the Naval War College.
So, again, how did Harvard University Press end up giving its imprimatur to a work embedded in this particular (and rather off-beat) discursive formation? It was once the case that JFK conspiracy books tended to be self-published, or sold by presses specializing in exotica. Certainly the vast majority of those from the 1970s and ‘80s that I saw on the shelves at the Library of Congress were. Commercial publishers have issued a few, given the niche market.
But it seemed as if some kind of threshold were being crossed when such a title was announced in the pages of The New York Review of Books, via an ad from Harvard. When a colleague pointed this out by e-mail, only one piece of digital shorthand seemed to apply: WTF?
Following a little sleuthing, I was directed to Kathleen McDermott. She is identified in the acknowledgments to The Road to Dallas as one of the editors at Harvard University Press who “embraced the idea and did a great deal to make the final product read more clearly.” We had some exchanges by phone and by e-mail last week, but I must confess to being more perplexed now than when I began.
What was the decision-making process behind acquiring this book like? Was there any concern about the idea of lending the press’s enormous cultural authority to a work of conspiracy theorizing? Did anyone there express reservations? Was there, perhaps, something in particular about the evidence or analysis that seemed to make publishing such a volume worth the risk?
They knew that a book on the JFK assassination might be controversial, McDermott told me by phone. “For that very reason, it was attractive and appealing,” she said. The press had signed him up for the book while he was still involved in the research and had not yet finished the manuscript. This struck me as a rather remarkable expression of confidence given the nature of the material. So I asked if it was simply a matter of him having credit, so to speak, given the favorable reception of Kaiser’s earlier scholarship.
“Partly it was a matter that we knew him,” said McDermott. “And partly it was because this is a topic that engages people so emotionally that to have a book like this come out from the press seemed worthwhile. People do like to read this kind of information. People live for these details, and we wanted to be able to present a detailed examination of the case.”
Between the lines of that answer, it sounded as if the potential market for such a book were a big factor. Now, I do try to be a realist. For a struggling academic press to turn out cookbooks and guides to state flowers seems like a reasonable price to pay, if it means good scholarly books are also in the catalog. But implicit in that trade-off, it seems, is the need for a kind of Chinese wall between the kinds of books. The process of accepting and publishing a scholarly work ought to take shape primarily (in the best of all possible worlds, exclusively) with reference to intellectual standards. If it sells outside the community of scholars, great. But a kind of stern lucidity about the distinction between kinds of books seems worth maintaining in principle, however difficult that may be in practice.
So I wondered aloud if McDermott’s mention of “people [who] like to read this kind of information” didn’t imply that the decision to publish The Road to Dallas was primarily market-driven. “Certainly we were aware of the possibility of reaching a wide audience,” she said. “That was not the sole reason, but part of a lot of connected reasons to do it.”
After hanging up the phone, I thought of an obvious topic to have discussed. What sort of peer review did the book have? How many scholars had vetted the manuscript? By any chance would it be possible for me to get look at the reviews they had written for the press? I sent her an email note posing these questions.
“Let me just reiterate,” McDermott responded, “that the book went through a standard acquisition process at the press. It was seen from first consideration as a serious history book by a serious historian.”
Fair enough! But to someone who doesn’t know the exact details of the standard acquisition process at Harvard University Press, that answer leaves unclear just how The Road to Dallas was peer-reviewed. So I wrote back to ask. In particular, I wanted to know just how many scholars had been asked to go over the book before it was approved for publication.
No answer came. I decided to wait until the start of the new week to ask again. And when still no response was forthcoming, something dawned on me. I’d prefer not to think it, but it can’t be helped: Evidently there are certain mysteries for which cynical speculation proves unavoidable.
Geeze, You'd think the guy had commited a sin!
-Bill
-
John , Be carefull regarding Morrow and his "credibility". After talking with Mr. Morrow after a COPA meeting in Chicago, my friend and I determined that he never met David Ferrie. Morrow could barely describe Ferrie physically, and said he would never forget his "southern drawl". As Steve Roy can confirm, Ferrie hailed from Cleveland Ohio, which Morrow did not seem to know, and DID NOT have a "southern drawl"... at all! ' This and other observations led us to discount Morrow for the most part.
-Bill
-
Greg and Tom, Haley's 'Texans For America' was a spin off of 'For America'. J Evetts Haley was also a member of the national
group, as well as others from Texas like Dan Smoot . Dean Carence Manion was "National Vice Chairman" of the Texans for America group as well. There was also a 'Californians For America' goup too. Birds of a feather.....
I knew there was more than tumble weeds in Midland (TX).
-Bill
Thanks for confirming, Bill.
"For America," a spin-off of the America First Committee, was formed in 1954, and run by some of the leading WW II "isolationists." One of the organization's leading lights was Colonel Robert McCormick, publisher of the Chicago Tribune. The chairman of For America was Clarence Manion, formerly dean of law at Notre Dame University. Robert Wood, then head of Sears, Roebuck, was a blustering propagandist for the bund. The stated aim of For America was the support of political candidates sympathetic to the Nazi cause.Greg , An interesting tidbit.
Robert E. Wood resigned as Honorary Chairman of For America (On 3/8/56) over the fact that the organization was seriously considering not supporting Eisenhower in the election. Instead they were going to support "independant (3rd party) delegates.
Tom,
Manion and Wood were both involved with Norman V Peale's secretive group aimed at de-railing Kennedy's candidacy. Oswald had named Peale as one of his three favorite authors on his Albert Schweitzer application (the other two being Darwin and Jack London). Wood was also at a meeting attended by Larrie Schmidt at the home of Robert Morris.
P.S. I also never wasted any time in looking for "snakes" while in Alaska.---There are none!Really? Someone better tell the zoo!
http://www.alaskazoo.org/reptilehome.htm
Stick to genealogy, Tom. You do a good job on that.
Not even for sure that they had a Zoo when I was there.
Not to mention a snake or two.------------In a zoo.
My point was, Tom, you might think it's a waste of time time looking for snakes in unlikely places but, as shown, snakes can and do wind up in such places. The same applies in any type of thorough investigation... you can't just dismiss leads on the basis that you personally consider them unlikely. And by the way, the snake was only in the zoo because it had been given it by Alaska Reptile Rescue... wouldn't that indicate it was found in the wilds of Alaska - even if there are no native snakes?
Greg , An interesting tidbit.
Robert E. Wood resigned as Honorary Chairman of For America (On 3/8/56) over the fact that the organization was seriously considering not supporting Eisenhower in the election. Instead they were going to support "independant (3rd party) delegates.
This was part of the radicalization of For America in my opinion, which did not sit well with some of the moderates in the group.
Although Woods had his name removed as Chairman, he did say he'd continue to support the group in general.
-Bill
-
The "For America Committee" has been relatively well discussed here. Go as far right as one can get, and then jump, and you will come to the For America Group.
Tom, I asked because there was a group called Texans for America started by J Evetts Haley for the purpose of influencing what text books school kids could have and which should be banned.Just wondered about any connection.
The Hibernia Bank building in NO also housed the office of the American Bakeries Co.If recalled, I also long ago made the "tie" back to the American Bakeries Company, and it was here for all to see.
So you did. I just searched and found a mention you made of it in Sep '05. Sorry I missed it, but at that time I was busy preparing to move my family across to the other side of the country.
I am the one who is sitting here with all of Mr. West's survey data and the various surveys.I am the one who has spoken with many, many of the principal sources of knowledge.
I am the one who has had much of his materials reviewed by ABSOLUTE EXPERTS in the fields of forensics; ballistics; and pathological fields, with full concurrence.
I am the one who has had multitudes of persons right letters on my behalf to those such as US Senator David Boren.
I am the one who has demonstrated that in fact, LHO was an excellent shot.
I am the one who has repeatedly demonstrated that the Model 91/38 Carcano Short Rifle is an extremely accurate weapon.
I am the one who has demonstrated that not only was Z313 the SECOND SHOT in the shooting sequence, but that the FBI as well as the WC were completely aware of this.
I am the one who provided the DIRECT CONNECTION between those in New Orleans who controlled LHO's (and his mother's) employment, and their direct connection to Dallas, TX and even the direct conncetion to the Host of JFK's visit to Dallas.
An impressive sounding list - none of which puts Oswald on the 6th floor firing any weapon - which is what you were ostensibly responding to here.
P.S. I also never wasted any time in looking for "snakes" while in Alaska.---There are none!Really? Someone better tell the zoo!
http://www.alaskazoo.org/reptilehome.htm
Stick to genealogy, Tom. You do a good job on that.
Really? Someone better tell the zoo!
Not even for sure that they had a Zoo when I was there.
Not to mention a snake or two.------------In a zoo.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.laobserved.com/archive/002222.html
"For America," a spin-off of the America First Committee, was formed in 1954, and run by some of the leading WW II "isolationists." One of the organization's leading lights was Colonel Robert McCormick, publisher of the Chicago Tribune. The chairman of For America was Clarence Manion, formerly dean of law at Notre Dame University. Robert Wood, then head of Sears, Roebuck, was a blustering propagandist for the bund. The stated aim of For America was the support of political candidates sympathetic to the Nazi cause.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.americafirstcommittee.org/history.php
Founded September 4, 1940; Revived June 8, 1980
Who founded America First?
The founders of the America First Committee were chiefly, General Robert E. Wood, then chairman of the Board of Sears Roebuck & Co., and R. Douglas Stewart Jr., Son of the Vice President of the Quaker Oats Co.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.namebase.org/cgi-bin/nb06?_FOR_AMERICA_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name: FOR AMERICA
Type Entity: Non-Profit Corporation or Co-op (Non-Louisiana)
Status: Not Active (Action by Secretary of State)
Mailing Address: 208 S LASALLE ST, CHICAGO, IL 60604
Domicile Address: 208 S LASALLE ST, CHICAGO, IL 60604
Principal Office: 208 S LASALLE ST, CHICAGO, IL 60604
Principal Bus. Est. in Louisiana:
Qualified: 07/14/1954
Registered Agent (Appointed 7/14/1954): CHARLES E. DUNBAR, JR., 321 ST. CHARLES, NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130
Registered Agent (Appointed 7/14/1954): SUMTER D. MARKS, JR., 321 ST CHARLES, NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130
Registered Agent (Appointed 7/14/1954): LOUIS B. CLAVERIE, 321 ST. CHARLES, NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130
Name: William Stamps FARISH Given Name: William Stamps Surname: Farish NSFX: Jr. Sex: M _UID: BDDEDE1DBDFAD511883B3C8B00C100007E33 Change Date: 26 Dec 2003 Birth: 8 AUG 1912 Death: MAY 1943 Note: LT William S. Farish, Jr was killed while serving as a member of the Ar my Air Corps. His parents, William S. and Libby Farish gave the Farish p roperty including Grace Lake to the Air Force Academy in memory of thei r son, William Jr. The original log cabin on the Farish property was b uilt in 1924. The first lake, Grace lake, was created in 1930 with sub sequent buildings and lakes constructed later. The final 495 acres, wh ich expanded the resort to its present total of 655, was acquired in 19 67. This additional land was largely unsuccessful gold and copper oper ations, with the southern-most part a potato farm.
Father: William Stamps FARISH b: 23 FEB 1881 in Mayersville, Issaquena county, MS
Mother: Libbie Randon RICE b: 11 MAR 1888
Marriage 1 Mary Stovall WOOD b: AFT 1912
Married:
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http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAwoodRE.htm
Robert E. Wood
In 1954 Wood established the right-wing Manion Forum. During the 1950s Wood was a strong supporter of Joseph McCarthy and his anti-Communist campaign. Robert Wood died in 1969.
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Greg and Tom, Haley's 'Texans For America' was a spin off of 'For America'. J Evetts Haley was also a member of the national
group, as well as others from Texas like Dan Smoot . Dean Carence Manion was "National Vice Chairman" of the Texans for America group as well. There was also a 'Californians For America' goup too. Birds of a feather.....
I knew there was more than tumble weeds in Midland (TX).
-Bill
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Lets not forget Feebees
Milton Kaack
Warren DeBrueys
-Bill
Bill,
Quigley has been included because he obtained employment after the assassination with one of the Dallas Host committee. He was also reportedly spending up way in excess of his known income (possibly even prior to leaving the FBI).
He committed perjury during his WC testimony. Was the above, part of a pay off for that?
Do you have any particular reasons for including the above two?
Greg, I have reason to believe these guys knew alot more than they let on. (Some of it I can't get into now). Kaack was the SA in charge of the Oswald investigation and held his file. He was onto Oswald very soon after he arrived, and according to his landlord, making regular inquiries about him. This was going on at a time when the FBI supposedly did not know Lee's address. Kaack was never questioned before a committee or deposed, that I know of.
De Brueys was very close to (or infiltrating) the Cuban community and was running informants in it, and probably all around town. He had to know what was going on with the Oswald charade. I also think he intimidated witnesses like Orest Pena to keep silent.
-Bill
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This list is not meant to be definitive, and is in no particular order. In my opinion, if the following were looked into in depth, the majority of aspects surrounding this case could be solved. There are specific reasons for each inclusion. In some cases, much of the work (though not all) has been done, such as with the Paines. The majority, however, have been ignored, or given token mention.
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Certain members of the Dallas Host Committee - their backgrounds and associations
Certain members of the DCLU - their backgrounds and associations
Certain founding members of FPCC - their background and associations
The Paines - background and associations
Harold Byrd - background and associations
The TSBD directors - but most notably Roy Truly - background and associations
Eddie Piper - background and associations
Buell Frazier - background and associations
Linnie-Mae and Bill Randle - background and associations
Ruby's financial dealings with one particular bank, Western Union & Amex
Ruby's dealings with the IRS and its investigators/agents
John Lester Quigley - post-assassination employment and financial status
Edwin Walker/JBS/Robert Morris/Minuteman and similar groups
Larry Jones of CUSA - Background, associations and alibi for whereabouts at time of assassination
Catholic Cuban Relief Mission
Quaker/Unitarian connections
Joannides - DRE records
All records pertaining to Mongoose and all sub-projects
Records of all Cuban ops between the BoP and the assassination which relate in any way to Gitmo
All records pertaining to Operations RED SOX/RED CAP & REDSKIN
Tim Prado Chapa - background and associations
Nicholas Petrulli - background and associations prior to attempted defection (apart from basic info in defection study bio)
Any existing records pertaining to US students studying/visiting Mexico City in '62-'63 period who were subject of interest to FBI, CIA, KGB or DGI
Radar development in US, Germany, Britain and USSR - sharing of technology/political aspects
MI reaction in Washington and in the field to removal of missiles from Turkey post CMC
Ralph Myers - background, associations and activities post army
Nicaragua National Guard Intel ops in Mexico - solo and jointly with CIA
MI/FBI/CIA/Citizens Council or similar orgs - ops against groups such as CNVA, GI Forum, CORE, - infiltration / informants
Identifying Faux Leftists in the mix
Certain aid and refugee orgs based in Europe and Latin America from WWII on
Weapon and drug running routes and those involved from late '50s through to the assassination
Car theft rings into Mexico from late '50s through to the assassination
Prostitute/striptease circuits and those involved
Lets not forget Feebees
Milton Kaack
Warren DeBrueys
-Bill
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Ron, Rothermel's files are still in his controll, and will not be available to the public EVER! At least that's what he told me. He said " What I know about the Kennedy Assassination will die with me"
IMO he knew alot!-Bill
Thanks a lot, Bill. When were you last in touch with him? A researcher talked to his wife a year or so ago (maybe longer) and she said Paul had died of a fall from a roof. Where ever his files are, they probably contain much that should be considered vital JFK assassination material.
Ron W
Ron, We spoke to him about 3yrs ago at length at his home in Richardson TX. I did not know he had passed away, did it make the news? He had alot of files in his home and other materials stored somewhere else. This guy knew where the 'bodies were buried' so to speak. I doubt any of his stuff will surface, he said too many of his freinds or their families would suffer as a result, and "I don't want that to happen, they are people I respect"...
Spooky dude, One of the most nerve racking interviews we've done... !
-Bill
RON. IF JAMES IS CORRECT ON ROTHERMEL'S DEATH ( HE PROBABLY IS ), THEN OBVIOUSLY I'M OFF ON MY GUESS OF THE INTERVIEW YEAR.
TIME SEEMS TO BE FLYING BY THESE DAYS, BUT THAT INTERVIEW SEEMS LIKE IT WAS LAST WEEK IN MY MIND. I WILL CHECK WITH MY FRIEND WHO WAS WITH ME AT THE TIME . WE DID ANOTHER INTERVIEW IN RICHARDSON ABOUT 3 YEARS AGO , AND THAT MAYBE WHY THAT DATE STUCK IN MY HEAD.
-BILL
Ron. After further checking, the interview took place in 2000. It's hard to believe it's been 7yrs!
-Bill
, the phrase 'Ni**er in the White House' should be in quotations above, as this was something I heard another declare.
IMO he knew alot!
General Walker : a 'pauper'?
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
- John, Walker was also a man with enormous ego and pride. Considering his state of mind about the Kennedys leading up to Oxford Miss, how do you think he felt about them coming out of Springfield Missouri??
-Bill