John Kennedy White

Hi Trygve, here's the Darnell footage I have. Compressed about 10%. Don't know if the footage toward the Depository is Darnell's also. Perhaps other's can help. Chris Thanks for posting... I have not seen this footage before... the clip of Newman pounding the grass with his fist is intense.

Very interesting topic... further, does anyone have an image that shows the purported damage to the sign after the shooting?

Thanks for reposting these images... they clearly show that someone standing on a car bumper would have an excellent vantage point through the first window.

Thanks, John. I'll check that out. Thought that would have been too easy... a similar defect in the upper left corner during the same sequence made me think it was the film, not a bullet path.

Yes! I haven't seen this kind of genuine teamwork since I started coming here (on a daily basis) a couple of years ago. Keep up the amazing work.

This is riveting... and, I recall a discussion about this before, but am I the only one who sees what appears to be a bullet zipping from the fence high above the target after the last few black frames? Is it possible to see that with this frame rate? It appears halfway down the knoll, in a perfect line from the fence. I wasn't able to pause the loop to study it more closely...

It appears that Ashton's Hatman location matches Holland's "land of many footprints" description:

Fascinating stuff! It looks to me like that cop sees something on the knoll and brakes hard.

You're Jack White. He's John ("Jack?") White. Your avocation is Kennedy. His middle name is Kennedy. Could you possibly be one person just using different photos and writing back and forth to each other? Hmmm.... I'm very real... check my IP address... hard for Jack to fake living in Winnipeg. For that matter, who would pretend to be from Winnipeg?

Any idea where that Coke bottle is from? Any chance it was on the retaining wall? Looks like they are handling it to preserve any prints that may have been left on it...

I think he's reaching into his holster with his left hand in this photo, causing the jacket to bulge underneath. Thoughts?

I don't mean to sound cynical...but at the cost of being same....is there not some 'irony' to have the top on the limo after the President has been shot....talk about closing the barn doors after the horses have been shot!..... No kidding... they're more concerned about protecting the president's brain "on" the car, rather than when it was intact "in" the car...

Yea...right...whatever... I'm not holding my breath. Not holding mine either, just adding a thought.

Re: flaming posts I think saying "it's been that way for years" is a cop out. It doesn't mean things can't become civilized. It only degenerates if you choose to feed the ego wars.

If HH man was a spotter/radio man, he had to be elevated. The shooter would have stood on the bumper behind the fence, instead of in front of the fence, to ensure safe flight. I'd like to see the configuation of the rear bumper of the car to see if it was large enough to hold a shooter... The Arnold figure would likely not appear in photos given the alleged tone of clothing that would have blended in with the background. I'm no sniper, but I would imagine that the arm positioning as represented by the badgeman photo would provide the right combination of stability and stealth that close to the target and the chance for quick flight out of the kill zone. Our sniper members could refute/confirm that assumption... I'm thinking the frogs are the team nickname from the school mentioned in the first post to Jack. Go Bombers!

Robin: You make a compelling case... The one question I have concerns the other "Ruby" who was spotted approaching the railroad bridge, wearing his fedora (pg. 49 of TKOP). Has anyone done a study of that photo to determine the identity?

Are there other photos of that window before or after the shots? That may help...

Is that an extreme blow-up of Altgens? First time that a face is visable on the left side...

British TV channel to show film of fictional Bush assassination LONDON (AP) - British television channel More4 plans to broadcast a dramatic film, documentary-style, about a fictional assassination of U.S. President George W. Bush, the network's head said Thursday. The program uses actors and digital manipulation of real footage to show a fictional account of Bush being gunned down after delivering a speech in Chicago, Peter Dale, the head of More4, told a news conference. Death of a President, also scheduled to be shown at the Toronto Film Festival in September, focuses on all those linked to the pretend crime _ including nearby anti-war protesters, suspects, Secret Service guards and investigators, Dale said. More4, which is the digital offshoot of Britain's Channel 4 network, plans to show the program on Oct. 9. The White House declined to comment on the network's announcement, saying it would not dignify the program with a response. ``It's an extraordinarily gripping and powerful piece of work, a drama constructed like a documentary that looks back at the assassination of George Bush as the starting point for a very gripping detective story,'' Dale told reporters. ``It's a pointed political examination of what the war on terror did to the American body politic,'' he said. Dale said he expected the film would upset some but defended it as a sophisticated piece of work. ``It's not sensationalist, or simplistic but a very thought-provoking, powerful drama,'' he said. ``I hope people will see that the intention behind it is good.'' Death of a President is directed by Gabriel Range, whose 2003 TV movie, The Day Britain Stopped, showed what might happen if the country's transportation network ground to a halt.

Great work, Bill. I had never really figured out the alignment before. His nose does look a little low compared to the ear, though. It's incredible how clear the rear exit wound "cone" shape is in that image.

Given the confessions implicating Trafficante, Roselli and Giancana, I firmly believe there exists a filmed trophy of the assassination that will withstand intense scrutiny from the research community. Call me an idealist, but I think it will happen in my lifetime.

John, The version circulating in Dallas and beyond in the period November 22-26 was quite simply a different version than the version we are familiar with. There is no mention whatever in the early print and electronic media coverage of the first version of a centering problem: That change came with the second version, and was the consequence of a need to abolish a specific presence between the camera and presidential limo. This obstacle's removal should be tied to the change in the direction of Kennedy's head upon impact of the fatal head shot. Dan Rather, on November 25, notoriously described that movement as "violently forward." I believe his description, not least, as I earlier pointed out in this thread, because Rather had every reason to suppose that day that the film would be shown in short order. (It was, but that's another subject...) The version with which we are familiar today instead offers Kennedy as moving "back and to the left" - a change of shooting point from the rear, to the right front. In shifting attention to the grassy knoll, the conspirators effectively reverted to the built-in fall back position, and created what may usefully be characterised as a pillory, into which an endless supply of suspects could be slipped, switched, multiplied and retracted as and when required. The success of that counter-intelligence gambit is all about you on this thread: 40+ years of chasing shadows on the grassy knoll. Paul Interesting theory... although, hindsight tells me that Dan Rather is not the beacon of truth in this matter... I'm sure every researcher has daydreamed about the moment when someone discovers a dusty film canister in a dead relative's safety deposit box that can be described as the "smoking gun" in this case... will that be this "original" film?

Getting this back to the original question... Is it possible that without Groden's centering, the original looked useless so they felt it was harlmess to the cause?

I'd have to agree here....they would have to have unusually strong nerves and almost unlimited trust in the ability of the snipers if they were 'in on it'. While I don't rule out that some SS men might have been in cahoots, I doubt the two in the car with JFK would have been or could have been. They would have worn hardhats and bulletproof vests....and been drinking while driving. Their statements on their accounts of the number and timing of bullets adds a bit to my feeling on this also. If they were told there would be a 'hit' the only way would have been to tell them it was to be at a completely different location when they were not to be so close....as some speculate about JC. Shanet: This is what I am getting at. There is too much denial regarding the Agent's behavior. You have outlined just a fraction of the Secret Service's unusual behavior which is written off as "mistakes" or excuses using a theory about "human behavior". At the very least these folks should have been fired for their incompetence. Their stories made no sense and some were even promoted in later years. (bad things happened to a few) Vince Palamara goes into this in great detail but I will address a few of Shanet's points. 1) The slow turn. Car should not go below 44 miles per hour, if so , protection needs to be "poored on" ( Prouty) 2) Greer's BRAKING , not even coasting. An automatic vehicle , like the limo, would coast downhill 20 miles an hour or more depending upon the idling speed. Whatever, it wouldn't be zero miles an hour. ( if you want to split hairs and come up with another figure! ) 3) The lack of protection in the killing zone. Basic security was not present that afternoon. It was called off to enable the shooters to do their job. Protecting the President is what the Secret Service does. To suggest they did not realize something was up is ridiculous. Greer had 6 or 7 seconds to get out of there. He did not. Instead , he braked the car. Take a look at Reagan's assassination attempt. That is protection. That is what happens when shots are fired. NO ONE MOVED when the shots rang out in Dallas. I agree that there was mass incompetence exhibited by the SS, but there is a difference between that and active conspiracy. Were the SS commanders in on the conspiracy? Maybe... but I think the footsoldiers were unwitting dupes...

I have a hard time buying the idea that Kellerman and Greer were accomplices. Given the amount of bullets flying in to the car from all directions, it was a fluke that neither were hit.