Cliff Varnell
-
Posts
8,627 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Store
Posts posted by Cliff Varnell
-
-
On 4/23/2020 at 5:45 AM, Sandy Larsen said:
Maybe he's coughing up a dart, eh Cliff?
The autopsists speculated JFK was hit with a round the autopsy couldn't detect.
(For some reason this scenario has been attributed to me, personally. That, I don't get.)
In my experience most Boomer types can't take the high-tech-weapon scenario seriously. They can readily finger the CIA as perps but when it comes to CIA weapons capacity it's --
"That's just Dick Tracy silliness."
Millennials I've discussed this with readily see the high tech angle.
-
David, that certainly puts the authenticity of the memo in serious doubt. I stand corrected.
-
So I’d speculate.
-
Certainly an asset. Knew as much as she needed to know.
-
2 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:
I get your general theory. What I'm not clear about is, what is the extent of Ruth's knowledge? Is she just a complete unwitting dupe?
I’d speculate that when Oswald was captured as a lone assassin Ruth got real wise real quick.
-
18 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:
That's precisely what I'm presenting. I'm making arguments questioning her guilt. Aren't you?
A back-up patsy.
Dulles may have set Oswald up with Ruth the junior as a favor to Agency friends who wanted to stash an asset in Dallas.
2 degrees of separation is hot!
Under any scenario Dulles would be highly motivated to spearhead the cover-up — of the conspiracy, and his own ass.
-
31 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:
Cliff said: Two degrees of separation is a little tight, ain't it?
I agree, Cliff. But talking specifically about Ruth Paine. Though it is a sort of a heresy on this forum, The degrees of separation are sort of akin to those who believe GHWB was actively involved in the assassination and was present at Dealey. Plaza. Why would either take such an enormous risk?
There is no denying her and her husband's suspicious connections. But I've mentioned this before. Ruth Paine would have had extensive experience and be vetted to a point of great confidence because she would become after all, the linchpin of the entire assassination! She was interviewed more than any other witness. At a certain point, if she was directed to befriend the Oswalds, you have to believe she was fanatically behind the assassination of the President, otherwise, why wouldn't she under pressures reveal the plan?, or at least as much of it, as she could have known?
Kirk,Why do you assume she *knew* she’d signed up for the job of lefty hostess to the family of a KGB/Castro Kennedy-killer?
Why would she “need to know” anything about the murder plot?
-
16 minutes ago, David Andrews said:
If indeed that memo was generated in 1966. And even if it was, they didn't leak it until the 1970s.
Riiiiight. The HSCA manufactured a memo implicating E. Howard Hunt?
The Agency was ready to throw Hunt to the wolves. In 1966.
-
Angleton's 1966 Memo to Helms re Hunt's Presence in Dallas" by Joseph Trento & Jacquie Powers
Sunday News Journal — August 20, 1978
<quote on>
A secret CIA memorandum says that E. Howard Hunt was in Dallas the day President John F. Kennedy was murdered and that top agency officials plotted to cover up Hunt’s presence there.
Some CIA sources speculate that Hunt thought he was assigned by higher-ups to arrange the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Sources say Hunt, convicted in the Watergate conspiracy in 1974, was acting chief of the CIA station in Mexico City in the weeks prior to the Kennedy assassination. Oswald was in Mexico City, and met with two Soviet KGB agents at the Russian Embassy there immediately before leaving for Dallas, according to the official Warren Commission report.
The 1966 secret memo, now in the hands of the House assassination committee, places Hunt in Dallas Nov. 22, 1963.
Richard M. Helms, former CIA director, and James Angleton, former counterintelligence chief, initialed the memo according to investigators who made the information available to the Sunday News Journal.
<quote off>
-
7 minutes ago, David Andrews said:
The didn't until Watergate.
They were ready to give him up in ‘66.
-
1 minute ago, David Andrews said:
Not CIA officers as patsies. Too close to home.
They weren’t ready to give up Hunt?
1 minute ago, David Andrews said:There's ample reason to believe Dulles would betray anyone as a means to an end.
There’s ample reason to believe the Agency would betray anyone — even Dulles.
-
30 minutes ago, David Andrews said:
I'd like to see that plan delineated. No knock against you, but I can't imagine a world where any CIA officer would go down for the assassination.
Tell it to Hunt. Or Morales...By "go down" you mean publicly accused?
You can't see a scenario where people screw up and the CIA provides back up patsies?
Okay.
QuoteThe Paines would be another matter - damage to the Agency would stop there. I understand that Hunt was dangled over the fire with teases of revealing his involvement in the 1970s, but he had Watergate to answer for, and his protector Dulles was dead.
I can't see a scenario where Dulles would agree to family friends of his girlfriend hosting the family of a Commie Prez-killer.
Two degrees of separation is a little tight, ain't it?
-
11 minutes ago, David Andrews said:
I don't see that the outcome would have been much different. The questions would have been harder, but Ruth had the family connection reaching to Allen Dulles that would have bought them less trouble than Buell Frazier got. It probably came into play in the existing circumstances. Plus having Marina, and then Marguerite in the home for a time would have given the household the hands off, investigate-and-see shield that it got with Lee in jail. If somebody wanted either of the Paines held for questioning, it would have happened fast in either case.
I'm perhaps reaching when I posit a relationship between Michael and Lee. I remember asking on another thread, "Why was Michael going to political meetings with Oswald if he wasn't 'on the job?' " I believe that an informant and facilitator was as much as he was. But I also believe that if he really said over the phone, "We both know who is responsible," as the WC asked him to confirm but he denied, then he was talking about Ruth.
Allen Dulles and the Paines may not have been knowingly involved in framing Lee as a Commie assassin. I can see a contingency plan for a scenario in which the CIA was implicated and the Paines, E. Howard Hunt, and Allen Dulles would be sacrificed. Dulles directed the WC cover-up, after all.
-
1 hour ago, David Andrews said:
In a Dallas milieu where the
childlessfun couple who adopted the Oswalds were a pair of blue-blood offspring who may have married in order to be beards for each other. The major intel operative of the two seemed possessive of Marina, while the husband had "political" nights out with Lee.If Oswald had been gunned down around 1pm 11/22, in what kind of jackpot would Quaker Mike & Ruth have found themselves?
I dunno if I’d want to be the lefty hostess of the family of a KGB/Castro allied assassin.
-
43 minutes ago, Denis Morissette said:
The Great Imbecile Gil Jesus!
I don't knock anyone on this thread.
I don't think anyone should get a knock on this thread... unless it's properly veiled😎
-
Coughing Up A Bullet still stands. One of the top vids imo.
-
5 hours ago, Sean Coleman said:
.But...if it is Oswald, what is he doing there? Throughout his menial intelligence 'career' his handlers, carers and guardians have manipulated his presence and actions to further his notoriety, him probably as an unwitting participant. So if he was to be the fall guy at the main event, how and why was he allowed to wander the TSBD, shout down lift shafts, lunch in the domino room, enjoy a beverage in the lunchroom, mumble to staff, guide reporters, be in vestibules and storerooms and be seen by various folk.
Simple.
The plotters could count on all eyes glued to the P. parade.
That's how they got away with shooting from multiple positions.
Witnesses readily suppressed, eh?
-
46 minutes ago, John Butler said:
Thanks Cliff,
Jesus is not some one I think of, but have noticed his good work from time to time. Will add to list.
Thanks John!
The place on your list I fit is Notable Internet Hobbyists Literary Division, the writing style counts as much as research acumen.
Short, punchy, repetitive -- my work is the literary approximation of hardcore punk rock.
Works more often than not, if do say so...
In this category I nominate:
Phil Dragoo (will hype if asked)
Alex Wilson (will hype if asked)
Charles Drago (accused me of murder and treason because I disagreed with him about whatever -- I'll nominate but not hype.)
"Ashton Gray" (accused me of treason -- nominated but not hyped.)
-
10 minutes ago, John Butler said:
Cliff,
I saw that you didn't make a comment. Does that mean you agree with the film scene and it's interpretation by Jesus.
The only part I don’t buy is the shot thru the windshield. I think it’s clear JFK was reacting to the throat shot prior to seizing up in apparent paralysis.
Gil has done a ton of work and has earned his place on this list.
http://whokilledjfk.net/gil_jesus_page.htm
-
-
45 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:
The JFK assassination monograph is about 150 pages at this point (compared to the 480 some for In Denial) and will be made available via the Mary Ferrell web site.
Larry, do you get into the medical evidence in your monograph?
-
Mike Bloomfield, Elvin Bishop...
-
32 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:
Cliff linked this same video a week or so ago. What 'm wondering is I read years ago of Dylan going electric at a festival and PO ing his folk base in the 60's. Is this the performance that did that, Newport, 1965? If so, who is playing lead electric as Dylan's doing rhythm work.
That’s Mike Bloomfield on lead.
Some in the crowd went from thinking Dylan a god to regarding him as the devil.
-
2 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:
I'm happy to do that but I don't want it to look like I'm just advertising - if nobody protests I will do that tomorrow. I did notice there was not much viewing of the thread in the book section...
DiEugenio suggested you were advertising.
I'll give the man the benefit of the doubt -- he was kidding, perhaps.
Heroes of the Kennedy Assassination Research Effort
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Excellent! I thought you were on some other page in regards to the throat wound...