Peter McGuire

Very well put. I believe it is painfully obvious to anyone who looks at what happened around Kennedy in those few seconds. It is the true "smoking gun" , since we can see it with our own eyes. It also confirms the notion of official orders being given in the killing of President Kennedy.

I know the speech so well now, but it has been several months, thanks for the reminder. Here is an audio link: http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset+Tree/Asset...&type=Audio

Alright. Fair enough. Greer has got some room but Kellerman certainly does not. What kind of Secret Service Agent just sits there? And then he is depicted as the hero who suppossedly told Greer to get out of there! I don't believe that. "Kellerman's actions (or lack thereof) have been contrasted unfavorably with that of Agent Rufus Youngblood, who was sitting in the front passenger seat of Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson's car further back in the motorcade. As soon as he heard the shot, Agent Youngblood immediately left his seat and threw himself atop the vice president. Witnesses said he managed this before the fatal third shot was fired that killed Kennedy." Greer meanwhile had a little stress , post assassination: "Greer retired on disability from the Secret Service in 1966, citing a stomach ulcer that allegedly grew worse following the Kennedy assassination In 1973 he relocated to Waynesville, North Carolina, where he died of Cancer on February 23, 1985."

Because they stopped the car and just LOOKED BACK. If they were really intent on protecting their "cargo" , they would have moved to cover said cargo with their bodies. And they would have took out their weapons in a show of force. They would have done a lot of things that bodygaurds do. The one thing that bodyguards do not do when shots are fired is just sit there.

I second that suggestion, and Mr. Black, why don't you act like a man ( grown up) and simply discuss these issues?

Do you mean the people on the overpass in this picture? A picture , unlike the cropped version of it that doesn't show people on the overpass. The question has to be; why were these people allowed to be there in the first place? Wouldn't that create some security issues? Ok, let's say Greer thought what you guess he was thinking. It didn't work very well, did it? So quickly speeding up to 50 or miles per hour in that six seconds just might have been a better idea? "Just a thought" I have related this story once before about the night i was walking home, in San Diego in the mid-late 70's, and started to cross a freeway overpass. I was not quite to the bridge when a police unit stopped me and told me I could not cross the bridge. To save time I will forego the whole story and get to the point. I was not allowed on the bridge as the President was to be driven under it on his way to a speaking/fundraising engagement. I believe it is highly unlikely that the SS did not follow the same procedure in the 60's. Take into consideration the sheer number of overpasses between the airport and the location in La Mesa, a distance of 16 miles, and the number of officers needed to secure these overpasses. I guarantee you not one person was allowed on one of those overpasses that night. There is no excuse for there being even one person atop that bridge in 1963. The SS should have stopped the motorcade when people were observed upon the bridge. The lead car knew there were to be no persons allowed upon the bridge and should have radioed a warning long before the motorcade was on Elm Street. Just because there was no obvious gain to be had by the SS as a unit does not mean that there was not cooperation given by individuals within the unit. We should give apologies to the men who failed to act to protect our president? Not in my lifetime. Nor mine, Chuck. For more on this here's the alleged stabilized Zapruder film that's been making the rounds. Is it a hoax? ... http://www.assassinationscience.com/johnco...intro/fast.html

"Another Colonel, the Frenchman Bastien Thiry, attempted in 1962 to avenge the honor of the French Army by assassinating General De Gaulle. He set up an ambush using submachine guns at an intersection in the suburbs of Paris one evening when the General's car was due to pass on the way to the airport. The car, an ordinary Citroen, was going about 40 miles an hour. On a signal from the Colonel (a brandished newspaper), the gunmen fired more than 100 rounds, but neither the General nor his wife nor the driver nor the security agent accompanying them was hit. The tires were shot out, but the driver accelerated immediately, and the General disappeared over the horizon." http://www.jfk-online.com/farewell15.html I'll just bet the perps were well aware of the reason the De Gaulle assassination failed, and insured that wouldn't happen in the Kennedy assassination. It may have even been the same gang. "The President's car was a Lincoln with a souped-up engine specially designed for rapid accelerations,..." http://www.jfk-online.com/farewell14.html "The first bullet came from no. 1 and struck the President in the throat. The second apparently came from no. 4 and hit the President in the back. No. 3 hit Connally, and no. 2's bullet went through a traffic sign between him and the car. Then, as Young blood covered Johnson and spectators began to scream, there was a pause. Four seconds after they opened fire, the gunmen must have been dumbfounded. When the first shot strangled the President, no one moved. At the sound of the second, Governor Connally turned around and was wounded, but the driver still didn't budge, and Kellerman barely turned his head. The final shots awakened the agents in the back-up car, but Kellerman was still lost in his dreams, and Greer failed to react even to the whine of Halfback's siren. Four shots had been fired, and the car was still moving at the same speed. Despite the careful preparations and the skillful marksmanship, not only was the President alive, but he was not mortally wounded. His life depended literally on Greer's reflexes,..." http://www.jfk-online.com/farewell18.html Whether the assassination of JFK was carried out by the same people as those who tried to get De Gaulle is an interesting question, but regardless of the answer one thing is almost certain, imo--the plotters who killed JFK learned valuable lessons from the De Gaulle incident. I agree the major thing they learned was that, above all, the driver must be nobbled. Greer's lethargy was no stroke of luck for the plotters, it was planned that way. An alert driver could have ruined the whole plan for them. Don't know how they did it, other than to include Greer in the plot--very risky but how else could they depend on his lethargic performance? It seems far more risky for the plotters to merely take a punt that the driver will obligingly react so slowly. I read somewhere that he disliked JFK but I know little about his personal background. That is my feeling too , Mark. That for some reason Greer simply didn't like Kennedy. The comments by his son that JFK was Catholic and Greer was Protestant don't exactly lead me to believe that Greer was very fond of Kennedy and he passed that feeling onto his son. Attempts here to explain away Greer's actions have failed , and the truth of the matter is very ugly.

Hi Ron/Larry The trees in this image appear to make good covering for a sniper from anyone who may be looking in that direction from the underpass. Although, i think there eyes may have been diverted to the limo by this time. I think it may also be possible to hit kenedy in the right temple from this position, although the windshield may pose a problem. ? One way to divert peoples attention fron the SOUTH knoll, would be to make smoke and noise on the NORTH knoll. SMOKE AND MIRRORS It appeared to be coming from an impossibly high angle, which doesn't seem to fit with a shot fired from behind the picket fence I have long thought the same thing, like it was coming from a helicopter. Wasn't that mentioned in Farewell to Justice?

Do you mean the people on the overpass in this picture? A picture , unlike the cropped version of it that doesn't show people on the overpass. The question has to be; why were these people allowed to be there in the first place? Wouldn't that create some security issues? Ok, let's say Greer thought what you guess he was thinking. It didn't work very well, did it? So quickly speeding up to 50 or miles per hour in that six seconds just might have been a better idea? "Just a thought"

Of course this is hard evidence. It is conclusive evidence. Only in the insane world of this case is it not. It looks like a shot from the front to me also. The only reason some people believe otherwise is because they are told to believe otherwise. Everyone that I introduced the ( full) Z film to thought the same thing. What is amazing is that while the Zapruder film is obviously altered , the frontal head shot remains. I believe that shows their arrogance in that they believed , and were correct , that they could explain even that away.

When a coup goes down, the bodyguards have no choice but to serve their new master. The King will soon be dead. A few resisted and were dealt with. And although assassination was in the air, most did not know until the last minute. They were and are an "elite group" in my opinion based on the work that they did during Kennedy's term and to this day. Although Kellerman, for example, just sat there and twiddled his thumbs while his President was getting killed, he sprang to action at the hospital and was a pretty assertive guy. I believe he is the Agent who knocked down a FBI Agent at Parkland. He was no dummy. The Secret Service Agents were all over the Kennedys on a daily basis , like white on rice. Nothing went past them. Why then, would they not move to protect a President when shots were fired? Making such direct comments about the 1963 Secret Service seems to always be a thread killer. Why is that? Until researchers come to grips with this awful fact , the assassination will never be fully understood. It was solved long ago. The intelligence community knew almost immediately that it was an inside job. But it has been successfully covered up by the media machine to this day. No one wants to believe what these guys did when the shots rang out. It goes against every basic principle of human nature. That JFK's protectors could be so cold. It is simply too awful to bear. The following perhaps should be on my thread about Jackie, since it is from the book " A Woman Named Jackie". On pages 411-412 on that book, the authors accuse Jackie of lying about what happened between the first shots and the fatal one. They say , Jackie said she looked to the left , so unlike Mrs. Connally, she didn't push her husband down and out of danger. ( you can see from the Zapruder film she looks right) Even worse, her famous walk to the back of the limousine , was according to the authors , an act of self-preservation following Connally's famous comments: "THEY are going to kill us all" Connally said he loved this country too much to elaborate on that comment. In any event , it was JACKIES fault Kennedy was hit with the fatal shot and she also was a chicken and was fleeing the scene! They go on to say..."the Secret Service covered up these facts , faithful to their code of silence...if anything, she ( Jackie) blamed others for her misfortune-the driver ( William Greer) of the presidential limousine for not pulling out and speeding up sooner; ( actually, he slowed down to a near halt and turned around twice) , John Connally for surviving the ambush and the Johnson's for daring to shatter her "kaleidoscopic dream".

I think we need to get this topic back on track: How about Bruce's odd family situation? Looks like he got the last laugh.

I believe it's true. I haven't come across any debunking of it yet. If you could lead the way, that would be nice. Kathy I also believe that woman with the tooth missing and most of Brown's story. It never ceases to amaze me how we all could have been sold the original story so easily, but yet the mountain of evidence exposing the government's big lie is scrutinized so dearly. What did seamstress that worked in the "Big House" have to gain by her story? Sure, Brown could be a loon, but I just have a gut feeling that her story is true. Anyway, it doesn't matter whether this story is true of not. It doesnt change all the other facts, which leads me to believe this could be disinformation, designed to discredit all the other truthful evidence, or just another example of the power of these people to cover their tracks. They could produce any photograph of their whereabouts, come up with any cover story, or do ANYTHING neccessary to cover their tracks. If this meeting did happen, do you think they would not do ANYTHING to cover it up. People that have killed hundreds of people in their effort to get away with this? Evidence of Nixon and Hoover some place else. What does that prove? It proves they are good.

Somebody is using that on an Amazon comment. http://www.amazon.com/gp/discussionboard/d...Mx3M3QHQ5I79DD6

When a coup goes down, the bodyguards have no choice but to serve their new master. The King will soon be dead. A few resisted and were dealt with. And although assassination was in the air, most did not know until the last minute. They were and are an "elite group" in my opinion based on the work that they did during Kennedy's term and to this day. Although Kellerman, for example, just sat there and twiddled his thumbs while his President was getting killed, he sprang to action at the hospital and was a pretty assertive guy. I believe he is the Agent who knocked down a FBI Agent at Parkland. He was no dummy. The Secret Service Agents were all over the Kennedys on a daily basis , like white on rice. Nothing went past them. Why then, would they not move to protect a President when shots were fired?

Ford served his nation by putting his stamp of approval on the " big lie".

In chapter 18, page 283 in " A Woman Named Jackie", Mrs. Kennedy is quoted as saying" There was a lot of romantic swill about the Secret Service. Their finest hour was supposedly Jack's assassination, when they protected Lyndon Johnson, who wasn't the target anyway, while Jack got killed". There are other interesting things in the book, including an aborted car bomb plot intended for then, President elect , Kennedy. Mrs. Kennedy also has made comments about Greer's slowing down and not speeding away. Senator Ralph Yarborough also made similar comments about Greer's driving. I understand the book is full of , well it is simply full of it. But it is funny how the truth gets mixed in with the lies. They also write on page 185 about Josefa Moss Johnson. LBJ's sister about her dying of cancer in 1960 and how such a great help she was at the Democratic convention. But in this article from Spartacus and on the " Men Who Killed Kennedy" we get a different picture of Josefa: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKjohnsonJ.htm Josefa Johnson died of a cerebral hemorrhage on 25th December, 1961. Despite state law, no autopsy was conducted. Twenty-three years later the lawyer, Douglas Caddy, wrote to Stephen S. Trott at the U.S. Department of Justice. In the letter Caddy claimed that Billie Sol Estes, Lyndon B. Johnson, Mac Wallace and Cliff Carter had been involved in the murders of several people including Josefa Johnson and John Kinser.

Thank you Gil for reminding us what Gary has said. I know there are even more quotable moments, but this is good. Gary, we have spoken over the phone and emailed to each other, and I do not forget those exchanges. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Yf_H5v47Y

If you consider the distance from the ground to the underside of the triple underpass and the distance to the camera - I am sure you'll see it is far too large to be a person. The picture quality in this print is not very good, but I take it to just be an artifact - possibly a fork in the tree standing just in the background. How about the Z film is useless as a piece of evidence? Come on. If you believe in a government conspiracy , why whould you even consider any of their "evidence" valid. The Z film shows a shot from the front, yet they make up some unbelievable story to counteract common sense. What is missing is the car behind the Presidential limousine, and the Agent's inaction. When you are the government, and you are the perportrator's of the crime , you can do anything. Anything.

Do you have the entire speech Gil? If so will you post all of it? I hope... Thanks , Gil. Please keep them coming to us. Peter

That was good, Gil. And thank you again for bringing our beloved President, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, back to us. Since he was murdered by his own government, we couldn't see his life play out as it should have. I have read about his indiscrections and all I can say is that , if he was a contemporary of mine, I would NOT tolerate them. Hoover could have done something about it, Jackie could have done something about it and the Secret Service could have done something about it. They did not. Our President was committed to peace and he would have made a better world. I am sure of it. I am sure our world would be a better place than it is now. .

Thanks , Gil. A lot of this footage is in the movie, " Executive Action", which of course is based on Mark Lane's book, " Rush to Judgement". That movie, and these film clips of President Kennedy, are often hard to watch , since we have never seen the leadership and intellect that this man brought to the Office of the President of the United States, anytime in recent US history. It is obvious to me what happened at Love Field and Dealy Plaza that fateful day, but now I am reading the Unauthorized Biography of Bush Sr, and if even a fraction of what is contained in that book is true, God help America.

The fact remains that the buck stops with United States Secret Service Agents William Greer, Emory Roberts and Roy Kellerman, who were taking orders from some very powerful people.

Charlie, They brought knives to a gunfight. Charles There seem to be three issues that either cause these kind of discussions or , in the alternative , the issues are ignored. 1) The Israeli factor. 2) The obvious Secret Service complicity. 3) Sorting out where Kennedy bashing is possibly actually looking at why Kennedy was someone who could be killed, as opposed to a figure who in the alternative, other methods could be used to accomplish the neccessary purpose.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The lines.... Some men see things the way they are and say "Why?"....I dream of things that never were and ask "Why not?" come from the great English writer and playwright George Bernard Shaw. Moving. The Senator's voice is shaking and he can barely finish the lines.