Chris Davidson

First formula is: 11mph=16.17ft per sec approx. 15mph=22.05ft per sec approx. A difference of 5.88ft per sec approx. 132frames before the limo appears/18.3fps= 7.21sec 7.21sec x 5.88ft per sec = 42.4ft. chris P.S. All information has been passed on to others as a safety measure. SORRY FOLKS. I ENTERED THE WRONG FIGURES IN MY INITIAL POST. THE NEW ONES ARE IN BOLD. THEY DO NOT HAVE TO BE EXACT TO GET THE POINT ACROSS, EVENTUALLY.

I proposed the idea that Rather having said he saw 'FILMS' - that he may have seen the Hughes film ... after all, how many other films showed the car turning onto Elm Street. No shots were reported fired until after the limo was gliding down Elm Street, and the Towner film shows a pretty uneventful turn onto Elm Street, so supposed you offer a logical reason why anyone would need to remove the limo turn onto Elm Street from the Zapruder film. It certainly cannot be to keep from ID'ing anyone for the films resolution isn't that sharp, so let us hear your working theory ... you certainly must have one before proclaiming an alteration took place, so share it with us. Let me ask you something .... what did you think of Zavada's presentation last Fall in Dallas concerning the impossibility that the Zapruder film was altered? I'm thinking you didn't see it?? Also, what have you done to seek out an expert who would examine the Zapruder film at the NARA and could you furnish this forum with your written request to the NARA to have it done? The reason why these questions are important is because I have heard the same complaints from people like yourself and Healy who haven't educated yourselves as to why Zavada is wrong about the Zapruder film not being altered, nor have you offered the name of anyone even close to the man's expertise who is willing to do the same. It seems to me that if you were serious about all this, then you would put in motion some sort of effort to get the job done ... yet you have not. Is it because you do not know how to find the address of the NARA? Can you explain yourself? Bill Miller Bill, The Towner splice and Zfilm Elm St. turn have nothing to do with people identification. They have everything to do with math. A new topic I will soon start. chris

Yes but! You are attempting to extrapolate Z-frame numbers based on an "assumed" vehicle speed that is in fact inaccurate. The Presidential Limo most assuredly began to slow down, and especially so just prior to and after the headshot at Z313. Tom, I Understand. I tried to create a baseline difference between fact and fiction, pertaining to the newspaper article. Your exact numbers are a big help. For instance: The article says 170ft in the throat. It's changed to a more exact 175ft. 175ft=frame207 according to the WC. The purported impact point of the second shot impact on Elm St. is marked "P" on the survey plat. (187 feet slant distance from window to pavement)=frame220 approx according to the WC. Throat shot =187ft=frame220 refer back to chart. Difference between newspaper article description and WC version =approx 220-207=13 frames. Tom, I believe you arrived at frame 354 for the Altgen's shot. I used a frame per foot formula initially, which is 12.25mph. This put the final shot at Zfilm 342/343 You apply the limo slow down calculation, as I apply the 13 frame difference. 220+122+13=Frame 355 chris P.S. I wonder what confused the reporter? The Stemmon's sign rears it's ugly head. Once again, something tells me the reporter was viewing an original.

Pat, At approx 39 minutes into the interview, Blaine describes Clint's incredible feat. It goes like this: The limo was going 11mph. There was 85 feet for Clint to catch up to.Clint ran about 15 mph to catch up, but got there after the 3rd shot. The WC has the limo traveling 10.51 mph between frames 255-313. That is 15.44 ft. per sec. 15 mph=22.05 ft. per sec. So, in order for Clint to catch the limo at some 85 feet back, it will take him approx 13 seconds to do so. Since Clint is still on the Queen Mary in Altgen's at 255, when does he start his incredible dash toward the limo? chris

Thanks Tom, Keep it coming!!! 5. The purported impact point of the second shot impact on Elm St. is marked "P" on the survey plat. (187 feet slant distance from window to pavement) This would place a shot at approx Zframe 220. Throat shot. Referring back to the article, 74+48 =122 frames after the throat shot = a shot hits the president's head. 220+122=frame342. (4+65)=frame313 1 frame per foot=12.25mph (4+95)=30 ft farther down the road= approx 30 frames frame 313+30 frames=frame343 The shot near Altgen's? Approx Frame342/343. chris

Now add a few of the impulse patterns from Thomas into it. Time / Frame# 139.2 =frame 210 140.3 =frame 229 144.9 =frame 313 145.6 =frame 326 Coincidence!!! Hard to believe chris

Pat, The SS didn't have to believe any of this. They knew a shot was fired after 313. Same as the newspaper article states (frame 324 approx). Same as the previous gif shows. Viewing a version quite superior to what we see, they knew. chris

Tom, When does Bill Newman/Toni Foster react and Chaney's head turn to the knoll (cycle cop closest to JFK) occur? Approx frame if possible. chris

Referring back to the article once again: Scenario1 First shot=170ft away First shot=Frame202 Second shot=74frames later Second shot=Frame 276 Third shot=48 frames later Third shot=Frame324 Scenario2 Reporter transposes shot 2+3 First shot=170ft away First shot=Frame191 Second shot=48 frames later Second shot=frame 239 Third shot=74frames later Third shot=Frame313 WC remedies two different shot scenario's concurrently. Crossover shots among them. chris

The WC did not have an entry for frame 284 (which is 74 frames after 210) referring back to the original article. So I added the entry for them. Notice the elevation numbers pertaining to the true elevation at frame 210 and the WC elevation at frame 284. chris

The elevation for the first shot (at street level)) was determined to be 423.07. This would actually equate to frame 210. The WC used a different measurement for their elevation which included the height of JFK and some other factors to arrive at something near 426.80. I believe the article's reference to 170 ft. is "close to" but not the exact distance. chris

Thanks Tom, Bear with me, and I'll add some more info. chris

Referring back to the previous article, this would be the entry for the first shot described. chris

If you don't realize the significance of this article snippet, I fill in some of the blanks. To start with: First, note the day of publication, in relation to the other official early investigations which took place. Second, the specific frame designations. chris

Everyone use their digital densitometers. It might give you a better idea where the separation occurs. chris

Pat, I think a better way of addressing the acoustics (while including McClain in the mix) is starting with Zframe 313 + 326 and work backwards. Keeping in mind that the first sound/s were thought to be firecrackers/cycle backfire. chris

Bill wrote: It also stops right afte the presidential limo turns the corner, so we don't know what comes next. But we can see for sure McClain or another cycle isn't in the picture, and it's at least 120 feet, - and could be as much as 180 feet, the paramitors they laid out. And they also said they had to allow for five feet - either way in their prediction of where the microphone was - when the first shot was recorded. I know a football field is 300 feet (100 yards) and the length of that block of Houston Street is approximately that, so there's probably 180 feet in that last frame and no McLain. Actually Bill, Houston St. from corner building to corner building is 201Ft. Add the sidewalks on both ends and your at 222Ft. This according to Robert West back in 63/64. chris

Bill, Except on the previous page, Connally says as they come out from behind the sign, he was turned to his right. He then turned back again, he says he knows he made that turn to the left before he was shot. He says you can see the grimace in JFK's face, you can't see it in his. He's viewing what appears to be 4x5 transparencies with who knows what power-magnification loupe. My guess is better quality stuff than we are privileged to see. chris

Robert, Mr. GREER. Well, when we were going down Elm Street, I heard a noise that I thought was a backfire of one of the motorcycle policemen. And I didn't--it did not affect me like anything else. I just thought that it is what it was. We had had so many motorcycles around us. So I heard this noise. And I thought that is what it was. And then I heard it again. And I glanced over my shoulder. And I saw Governor Connally like he was starting to fall. Then I realized there was something wrong. Where in his WC testimony does he refer to the second noise as a shot? He heard a noise and heard it again. Thought they were motorcycle backfires. It did not affect me, he states. Sure it did. He quickly adjusts his steering position and braces against the back of his seat. It's in the film right after Connally being shot around 234. Greer's testimony is worthless. He doesn't say anything worthwhile. Sounds like he was coached to dumb it down. chris

To start with ... Connally said that he could see he was shot in Z234 ... Connally didn't have a stabilized in motion view to study and go by. I did not understand him to say which frame the bullet had struck him. I thought everyone knew how to see peoples testimonies on the assassination ... here is the link http://mcadams.posc....du/russ/wit.htm You will find Greer's report and testimony there. And Green never put the brake pedal to the floor on Elm Street in my view for if he had done so - the car would have come to a dead halt. Bill Bill, Life Magazine Nov25, 1966 Page 43 First Sentence: "Connally believes, as nearly as he can judge it, that the bullet struck him in the 234th frame." A little farther down: "He might, Connally admits, possibly have been hit a frame or two earlier but no more." chris

Bill, You supplied this in post 357: In Greer's report he said, "The President's automobile was almost past this building and I was looking at the overpass that we were about to pass under in case someone was on top of it, when I heard what I thought was the backfire of a motorcycle behind the President's automobile. After the second shot, I glanced over my right shoulder and saw Governor Connally start to fall, I knew then that something was wrong and I immediately pushed the accelerator to the floor and Mr. Kellerman said, get out of here." Greer's Commission testimony: Mr. SPECTER. Now, would you tell us just what occurred as you were proceeding down Elm Street at that time? Mr. GREER. Well, when we were going down Elm Street, I heard a noise that I thought was a backfire of one of the motorcycle policemen. And I didn't--it did not affect me like anything else. I just thought that it is what it was. We had had so many motorcycles around us. So I heard this noise. And I thought that is what it was. And then I heard it again. And I glanced over my shoulder. And I saw Governor Connally like he was starting to fall. Then I realized there was something wrong. You put in bold "Greer's report" which cited the phrase second shot. When did his report come out? When did his WC testimony occur? I'm pretty sure he knew at least one of the noises as they appear from behind the Stemmons sign, is a shot. According to the Life magazine article, Connally believed he was struck at frame 234. There is a big difference between "pushing the brake pedal to the floor" and using the brake pedal as a brace as "you push it to the floor". Greer's Z film action's speak louder than his words. chris

Bill, Greer infers he hears 2 motorcycle noises, then looks back. He also refers to a second shot. Where is his description of the first shot? He makes no distinction between noises and shots. In other words, at some point, is one of the cycle noises considered a shot by Greer? Must be the one that hits Connally around 240, which would cause his reaction as seen on the Z film. Greer knows it's a shot that hits Connally, so does everyone else in the plaza and he reacts accordingly. If you replace Greer's description of the "acceleration pedal to the floor" with "brake pedal to the floor", you see what is seen in Z with regards to a bracing affect. chris

Robin, Well put. Extending the leg and lengthening the body. Otherwise known as bracing one's self. Take a look at Kellerman and JFK just after Greer's action's. A sign of forward momentum by two people unhinged and unready for sudden braking. In fact, JFK also rises up at that point, just as Bill Newman describes. chris Click on photo to view the video.

What are you going to use to gauge the slowdown Chris? The only thing you have to compare the speed to is the blurred background. Thats not a very good chioce however, because the amount of blurring of the background is directly related to the speed of the camera pan. And since the speed of the camera pan INCREASES the closer the limo get to Zapruder, what we have is the background blur increasing at the same time the limo should be slowing down. Thats why the limo seems ot have a steady pace rather than slowing and speeding up...the camera pan rate speeds inthe areas the limo should be slowing and slows where the limo should be speeding up. Craig, I'm not basing my observation on the quality (blurring) of the frames, but on the braking force applied by Greer. I agreed with you in regards to the camera pan rate speeds, as an object moves closer to the camera. The motorcycle study awhile ago, proved that out. I base it on someone driving approx 10-12 mph. Greer appears to have (at the least) his right hand at somewhere around 5 oclock on the steering wheel. This quickly turns into approx 2 oclock. He is not maneuvering into a sharp turn, but rather a gradual bend. His hand position prior to his corrective action seems to indicate a state of ease. I'm pretty sure it's been proven that a driver's first response to a hazard is to hit the brakes. Greer is no different. At some point, he hears the shot that hits Connally, braces and brakes. As you have suggested many times before, anyone can test this. I would expect to see a perceivable slowing of the limo, due to Greer's action's, regardless of the panning affects normally attributed to moving objects. chris

Robert, Take a look at Greer's reaction after the governor gets hit. Greer is reacting to that shot. He hits the brakes, braces at least his right arm against the steering wheel, which propels his torso up and backwards toward his seat. Which means the car should slow down tremendously or stop. chris