Chris Davidson

I couldn't find him or his shadow in Altgen's along the curb sides either.

Did he cross the street? Initially, I thought it possible. There is a ghost image of someone (dark suit) who appears under the Stemmons sign from Z's perspective. But, since the ghost image appears at extant z215 about the time of Willis/Betzner similar photos circa z200, the only logical candidate (imo) for the ghost image is: John Chism. Can anyone find "bald spot shadow man" in Willis or Betzner?

It's 54ft between Croft and these gentlemen on the same side of the street. Neither of which strikes me as "bald spot shadow man".

Which leads to the obvious question: What happened to "Bald Spot Man" aka "Shadowman" in Z?

Via process of elimination when we arrive at extant Z133. Willis was the first to round the concrete structure. Bald spot man was the second. Croft was already in position. We know where Willis and Croft are in extant Z133. There is another person in Dorman who continues on, who I discovered and believe labeled many years ago as "Shadowman". It's reasonable to assume this is actually "bald spot man" continuing on, from around the concrete structure. For many years, we couldn't prove "Shadowman" wasn't Croft because of some missing elements.

Next, sync Martin with Dorman (close enough-different frame rates) using the girl at the top, heading down the stairs around the corner. Photoshop doesn't like the Martin film, so I'm supplying a little cleaner version at the link provided, besides the gif. The last Martin frame in the gif, Jackie red boxed at Z133. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KBbfyTCtsVk35wEQYyP9QTu6ZYz1UAcj/view?usp=sharing

If bald spot man is neither Willis or Croft, then according to the previous Martin/Bell gifs with Willis #1 leading the way, then Croft is already in or close to his camera position at Z133. Martin's LOS dictates that Jackie is at approx Station# 3+00.0 (2nd frame in the gif) when JFK is at Station# 2+99.0. Robert West's plat designation for Station# 3+00.0 provided. JFK'S position in the limo at Z133 = Station# 2+99.0

A few more pieces. Does anybody believe "now" that Robert Croft is bald spot man? I don't.

Ray's quote: "In the post above, in answer to your question, I suggest you re-read Chris Davidson's post where you will see he said "The alteration you are looking for is there, you just have to put the right pieces together." Butler's response above that he doesn't agree with it in the first place. Your response would lead me to believe that you don't believe in zfilm alteration. Which is exactly how you are trying to portray the "gangs" beliefs.

The topic was the leaning lamppost. You followed an entry after David Healy brought up some valid points along with the link to Dr. John Costella's research. Chris replied "I will have to reproduce the situation in miniature and see if I can duplicate the change of angle. ( I usually do that before posting, oh well)If I can't reproduce it I will consider that I made a mistake, and the change in vanishing point perspective I theorized would cause the change of angle is not enough to even measure. Thanks for the input." and left off with revisiting an aspect of his results. I am still waiting for Chris' update, but since you turned this into other Z film alterations, instead of starting a new topic, we are where we're at. The alteration you are looking for is there, you just have to put the right pieces together. As it stands right now, you've made quite a good argument for the film not being altered. P.S. I'm sorry Chris/David for inadvertently hijacking this thread.

Thanks Michael/Ron, If so inclined, take a look at Hughes above and the Robin/Gerda gif I previously labeled with #1,2,3 and 4 and match up Willis rounding the corner first in both, while bald spot man runs second. Then look at the position of the limo in the full Bell frame gif I just provided, with Rosemary in the red box. These are very close sync points, within a few frames, because of the difference in camera angles between Bell and Hughes.

You don't understand what is being presented. I told you Phil Willis was figure#1( Robin/Gerda gif) in Bell. The first person down the steps rounding the corner. Figure #2 is bald spot man. Figure #3 and #4 who you appear to believe are Phil Willis and Linda, are not. Rosemary and Linda went up the Houston St sidewalk to Elm St. All one has to do is look at the beginning of Bell, spot Rosemary, then look to the other side and locate bald spot man and realize Phil has just rounded the corner before him and is ahead of the approaching limo.

I'm quite sure the limo wasn't traveling 20-40 mph around the Elm St turn. This is what happens when you base your speed conclusions on "(most everyone's estimate)". Eventually, someone will create a graphic that is more reflective of the true speed traveled for the span we are talking about. Although there are other deceptions(distance traveled/frame rate) created by this graphic, the overall speed is within 1/2mph of what it should be. I suggest you add up the speeds within the graphic and come up with the average, then combine that with a 9.3mph average for Houston St. Once you have that, you can then compare running speeds/distances vs limo speeds/distances.

If it's actually part of the image within the frame, it would occur at the bottom of the frame. In other words, this example provided is just the reverse(ghost image above bottom sprocket hole) in that it's actually part of the building above what you see in the main frame. You will notice how I used some of the main frame image (white horiz/vert lines from the background building) to align where it approx would be.

Outstanding Robin/Gerda. I didn't have the early Bell frames. Chronologically Bell will occur a little before Martin. #1 would be the prime candidate for Willis. imo #2 bald spot man.

Robin, That depends on whether the Bronson photo you showed, with Phil's wife commenting that those were her parents, is true. If that is the case, the person I have red boxed in the small Bronson gif is Marilyn's father, not Phil. The only picture I have is from Life Magazine 1967.

Robin,

My first question would be. Who overlaps in the background of Betzner and Willis? Discount the overlaps and come up with a total. Something like this:

Willis testimony from the Clay Shaw trial. It's too bad we don't have the exhibits from the trial.

Drommer/West plats layered.

Start with this path first. He's 200ft away. 200ft/17.84 sec = 7.62mph I would think that the latter part of Bronson would show him running towards the steps, but I don't see anyone over there. The only person we see down this corridor is bald spot man in other films.

I believe you are describing the "ghost image" area.

Lateral distance from Stemmons sign to scarf lady = 32.5ft Lateral distance from Stemmons sign to light post = 73.75ft

Thanks Robin, So that's not Willis in Muchmore. I was wrong on that. I don't see Willis taking photos on Houston St. He could have been just out of camera view from the other filmers. The bald-spot guy appearing in Muchmore twice and Dorman does appear to be the same one I've pointed out in Hughes, Martin. He's also in Bell running towards the steps which lead down to Elm St. I still believe that is the route(steps) that Willis had to take to make it in time for Z133. I'll explain that in a bit. The Cutler/Sprague plat mislabeled the filming position of Muchmore and instead put Martin's name there. That threw me off a bit in terms of the positional relationship between bald-spot, Willis and Muchmore. Willis appears to have remained in the same location when he took both pictures on Houston St. LOS works for both. The limo is 63ft farther up Houston St than Willis' physical location when he takes his last picture.

Robin, Look who appears, as the taller guy moves closer to, what more than likely is, his wife in the white coat.