Chris Davidson

While filming, I consciously never moved my feet on the pedestal. Was trying to assimilate a tripod setup, as close as I could. Instead, I rotated my torso moving east to west. Somewhat uncomfortable after the cars had traveled past my perpendicular position. fwiw

"Would really like to hear one other witness describe that turn.... Towner should be a prime witness...." I don't think you're going to find more specifics from Towner about the limo location in regards to what we are discussing.. imo Maybe an optical printer/special effects experts will chime in. ???

https://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x7c4ezw Might have better luck with this link instead. Click on the "play" arrow button at the bottom left part of the screen. https://player.vimeo.com/video/345211568

I'll include the Towner clip with audio in a follow up. Towner says, gesturing with her hand, she thought the limo was actually closer to her (more to the left) than what is seen in the video.

I don't believe so. The limo front bumper and the actual cop are probably close to the same Station#. Though the cycle front tire is out ahead of the limo front bumper. imo 20ft(see link) is the approx slant line distance from PositionA(Station# 278.5) to extant z133(Station# 299.0) using JFK's physical location in the limo. Since we are talking about the limo front bumper, which is 15.11ft ahead of JFK, and whatever the cycle tire is in front of the cycle cop, you can add those back to that 20ft slant difference to get a better ideal on the total distance from PositionA to the limo front at extant z133. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25802-dr-costellas-leaning-lamppost/?do=findComment&comment=401562

Information I requested from Gary Mack: "In reply to your questions, the camera original Towner film has one splice about 2/3 of the way through the limo turn onto Elm Street. Since the film was never examined by government investigators, the splice was first noticed by Robert Groden, who served as a consultant to the HSCA photo panel in 1978. From what Tina and Jim Towner told me over the years, they had no knowledge of how or when that splice was made. What is known is that the film was developed for them by The Dallas Morning News within a few days of the assassination; available records suggest the film was never seen by investigators until the HSCA. The only other time the film was out of the Towner’s possession was when LIFE magazine borrowed it from them in 1967 for publication in their November issue about Kennedy assassination photographers." Since the Towners have no idea when/how the splice occurred, the "powers that be" had a possible 4 year span to alter their film. How do we know LIFE magazine didn't switch the Towner extant spliced film for a more altered version when preparing their Nov 1967 publication?

Thanks Richard. I believe this is what you are looking for:

Knowing that Station# 234.5(329.2 - 94.7(50.7 + 44)) = Station C and Z166 on the West path = Station# 334.5 = Station# 329.2 (z161/168) + 5.3ft. When is 100ft over frame 166, not 166frames? Usually when 33 are removed from the equation to sync. 100ft/133frames = .751ft per frame x 18.3 = 13.75ft per sec = 9.36mph-7.5(100ft/166frames) = 1.86mph 1.86mph x 1.47 = 2.7342ft per sec x 9.125683sec(167 Towner frames@18.3fps) = 24.951ft After that, look for distance remnants popping up to complete the sync and see if plugging the difference back in matches the desired speed: 24.96ft/33frames = .756ft per frame Close enough for gubermint work.

That's not Robert West out there. Why would it be? It was never explained to him what PositionA represented. PositionA to extant z161: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sdECH4XR_tcx8S3tjmiun1uDREeLCBQx/view?usp=sharing

David's quote: "Seems to me the turn was a bit like this.... with a straight line from Position A to Z133..." Sorry about that, I should have pulled the limo out of this graphic. It was placed there to represent the limo's orientation to the lane marker and landmarks, representative of what we see in the extant Towner film. If you take my red line that crosses PositionA and create the other half of the triangle drawing down towards Station# 3+00, this would agree with your statement in bold.

The path to PositionA from JFK's location in the previous gif. Rocker panel limo trim angle, pointing towards PositionA, veering off the West path.

Preliminarily, what we see in the extant Towner film ( could still be the limo traversing PositionA ) is manipulated to make it look like it was in the center lane instead. Follow the Elm St. slope. There are not a lot of video clips from this filming position including (car lines) to compare with the extant Towner film. The distance from JFK (within the limo, in this gif) to Position A is the the approx length of the limo = 21.34ft.

David, I figured a different way to test this would be to find two frames from Towner where that wheel is approx the same distance (32ft) from Towner's camera position. The plotted red line to the wheels is the same line (just rotated it in Photoshop) and the longer plotted red lines are a match for the LOS blue lines on the frames. Now it's quite clear (at least to me) that your observation is correct. Outstanding job.

The background is stabilized. I sped up the frame rate to 24fps so the initial zooming start point is easier to see. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TRiqS9AgADt9G6iw8yGDEVv0AZI4hsZe/view?usp=sharing

Now integrate Specter's subtle adjustment(previous posting) with the frame manipulation and the difference is .021ft = 1/4 inch. Nice syncing for all the work they did. 418.48 - 418.35 = .13 x 18.3 = 2.379ft 2.4ft / .4802 = 5frames

More incorporating with Position A: PositionA to extant z161: 50.7ft - 20.65 = 30.05 / 18.3 = 1.642 + 416.83 = 418.472 = extant Z313 Elevation Conversion: 2.77ft - 1.128 = 1.642ft elevation change 30.2 (Station #299-329.2) /18.3 = 1.65 Specter had to fine tune the location of the original extant z313 shot (FBI/SS Dec 1963) in relationship to the Altgen's designated shot, by moving it back east up Elm St an elev of .13ft In doing so, this now synced with the elev span from z133(first limo frame on film) - z161. Think this is a reflection of syncing elevations to an extant film with the limo speed/distance as a variable?

Ray, I don't have a problem with the notion the Towner film was altered more than the single splice that we see. I think it needs to be addressed a little differently. If I were to show you a side x side comparison of two frames with the zoom executed, you might look at it and say it's obvious he's larger in one than the other. It would be difficult (imo) to prove alteration this way. But, if I pointed out that (what appears/supposed to be) his right waving hand is much larger than it should be (compared to his head) and this occurs in relationship to the limo length, then I would be much more inclined to believe what David has been stressing. It would then connect me back to what I have stated about the Myer's 8% plat solution and the recent previous equations involving the limo length. Same concept. Hope that make sense.

Stationary objects increase in size. Objects in motion(limo tires /cycle cops) moving farther away from the camera, decrease in size. I'm sure the motion objects increase via the zoom too, but then you would have to compare distance traveled vs. zoom lens characteristics. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22692-swan-song-math-rules/?do=findComment&comment=376404 If there is a way to show Towner always had the camera set on zoom, then that would be a big problem. Or, try to reproduce the same results by recording video via a smart phone, using a vehicle moving away and adjust the zoom lens during filming.

David, Truly says it takes a wide turn at that spot. (Never heard a same day statement, this only came in his prepared WC testimony). If they both wanted it to pass through that location, but it didn't, they (in essence) were trying to retard the advancement of the limo. (Slow it down). This concept is no different than having the limo travel 2.24/3.74mph in the CE 884's we possess. I've provided other examples in previous posts, but plotting Towner doesn't have the limo traverse PositionA. PositionA is the pivot/pivotal point ( lack of a better description) for adjustments down Elm St both horiz/vert in sync with designated limo speeds/ frame manipulation. More to come.

It appears they decided the splice area would start around the halfway mark of those 43frames or 133 + 21.5 =154.5 The problem that arose from the initial calculation is (extra frames within that z133-z166 span) it was not based on the limo speed / distance traveled. A more exact determination, averaging 14.94mph (CE884- z168-z186 orange version) and the ratio of 1.166x faster than the average speed of the extant Zfilm from z133-z166 = 13.44mph. 13.44 x 1.16666 = 15.68mph 14.94 +15.68 = 30.62 / 2 = 15.31 x 1.47 = 22.50ft /35.5ft = 1.577 sec x 48 = 75.73frames/ 2 = 37.86 frames-33 = 4.86 frames = 5 frames approx. Based on the actual limo speed the realization set in that approx 5 frames needed to be excised between z133/166. Follow the bouncing frames starting at z171, back to z166, down to z161 for the final resting place.

This version is the same as the previous two, the only difference is I recorded it at 30fps, so you could see the actual frame total and fps playback rate = approx 18fps. There are 43 (0-42) progressive frames in the original. 33 x 2.622 (48/18.3) = 86.52 frames / 2 = 43.26 frames 43-33 = 10 frames (z171-z161) was the initial calculation for frame manipulation. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nKSykVwptv49VMs6YRbThDffNJ_P0HzH/view?usp=sharing

David, I have a little more to do on this span z133-166, then I can move onto PositionA again. https://drive.google.com/file/d/19f7ymKP0rgx6qvO8gArgPhPZX4NEROct/view?usp=sharing

This might help:

Stationary objects are my constant, such as the Stemmons sign support post. See gif below. Frame counts can be very deceiving. See gif below. The only instantaneous speed I'm interested in, is that which is reflective of frame removal. See gif below.

Working somewhat backwards for a match: Z166 = Station# 330.1 - 5.4ft = Z161 Station# 324.7 - Z133 = Station# 299.0 = 25.7ft (28 frames) = 11.42mph Extant zfilm plotted133-166 = 13.44mph 13.44 -11.42 = 2.02mph 15.68mph - 11.42 = 4.26 - 2.02 = 2.24mph CE884 Z161-166 = .9ft/5frames = .18ft per frame x 18.3 = 3.29ft per sec = 2.24mph