Bernice Moore

FWTAW.......

From the DPD Files......

B........

Bill :

Whatever, that is none of your business, David will do as he sees fit.....

Your diversionary tactics, of old to high-jack the thread appear to have

been working..

All, IMO, keep your eye on the topic of the thread and not on Bill Millers posts...

same old.......

B......

Revolver Bullets

Four bullets were recovered from the body of Officer Tippit. In Nicol's opinion one of the four bullets could be positively identified with test bullets fired from V510210 revolver, and the other three could have been fired from that revolver. In Cunningham's opinion all four bullets could have been fired from the V510210 revolver, but none could be positively identified to the revolverthat is, in his opinion the bullets bore the revolver's rifling characteristics, but no conclusion could be drawn on the basis of microscopic characteristics. Cunningham did not conclude that the bullets had not been fired from the revolver, since he found that consecutive bullets fired in the revolver by the FBI could not even be identified with each other under the microscope. The apparent reasons for this was that while the revolver had been rechambered for a . 38 Special cartridge, it had not been rebarreled for a . 38 Special bullet. The barrel was therefore slightly oversized for a . 38 Special bullet, which has a smaller diameter than a . 38 S. & W. bullet. This would cause the passage of a . 38 Special bullet through the barrel to be erratic, resulting in inconsistent microscopic markings.

Based on the number of grooves, groove widths, groove spacing, and knurling on the four recovered bullets, three were copper-coated lead bullets of Western-Winchester manufacture (Western and Winchester are divisions of the same company), and the fourth was a lead bullet of Remington-Peters manufacture. This contrasts with the four recovered cartridge cases, which consisted of two Remington-Peters and two Westerns. There are several possible explanations for this variance: (1) the killer fired five cartridges, three of which were Western-Winchester and two of which were Remington-Peters; one Remington-Peters bullet missed Tippit; and a Western-Winchester cartridge case and the Remington-Peters bullet that missed were simply not found. (2) The killer fired only four cartridges, three of which were Western-Winchester and one of which was Remington-Peters; prior to the shooting the killer had an expended Remington- Peters cartridge case in his revolver, which was ejected with the three Western-Winchester and one Remington-Peters cases; and one of the Western-Winchester cases was not found. (3) The killer was using hand-loaded ammunition, that is, ammunition which is made with used cartridge cases to save money; thus he might have loaded one make of bullet into another make of cartridge case. This third possibility is extremely unlikely, because when a cartridge is fired the cartridge case expands, and before it can be reused it must be resized. There was, however, no evidence that any of the four recovered cartridge cases had been resized.

http://www.geocities.com/jfkinfo/app10.htm#p5

NARA Record Number: 124-10371-10120

ADMIN FOLDER-A11: HSCA ADMINISTRATIVE FOLDER, OUTGOING COMMISSION FOLDER VOLUME V

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=104

"It was never conclusively ascertained that the bullets in Tippit's body came from Lee Oswald's pistol.."..

Jesse Curry: JFK Assassination File: 1969....page 67......CD 774

B

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081119/ap_on_...ation_witnesses

"It seems like everybody around us was running up the grassy knoll hill," Gayle Newman said. "The police officers had their guns drawn."

Do the couple feel a second gunman fired from the grassy knoll?

"I do tend to want to lean in the direction that it was a conspiracy, meaning more than one person was involved. But so far, no one's ever come forward with concrete evidence," Bill Newman said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pweuPLTVfl4

Best source for Newman's original impressions.

- lee

******************

Hey Lee:

Here is the all of the interview with the Newmans that day......the video from youtube is only a min and so long..

Below is the interview

8.56 min_ Newman intv_ wkaa tv dallas_nov_22_63

http://mailafriend.guide.real.com/index.ht...JFK%2fgknoll.rm

B...........

Bill Kelly : ""John Judge first accompanied Penn Jones to Dealey Plaza sometime in the mid-70s and has returned every year since. The first timet they went was not a major anniversary year and there were only a few flowers and no reporters. They held a moment of silence alone together.

Since Penn passed away Judge has been there holding the moment of silence at 12:30 on 11/22, a tradition that Penn began the year after the assassinaton. ""

Penn Jones Dealey 1983...

John Judge 2007.....

B......

Harold Weisberg ONE MAN VS. ONE GOVERNMENT (Part 1 of 2)

By Liam Farrell

News-Post Staff

12-25-05

FREDERICK -- For decades, the most-powerful domestic intelligence agency in the United States watched a Maryland chicken farmer.

For decades, the Federal Bureau of Investigation wrote analyses of his public statements, books and newspaper articles.

For decades, the FBI's highest-ranking intelligence officials, including its legendary and controversial director, J. Edgar Hoover, personally exchanged correspondence on his life, which was spent investigating the veracity of the government's conclusions on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

The Frederick News-Post has obtained the FBI files of Harold Weisberg, local author, farmer and noted expert on assassinations, through the Freedom of Information Act.

Mr. Weisberg, who died in 2002 at his home just outside Frederick city, has a 178-page file. The newspaper will appeal the government's decision to withhold 39 pages.

Mr. Weisberg gained notoriety for his books criticizing the FBI and Warren Commission for their investigations of JFK's assassination, and he is well-known for his extensive collection of government files and information, now housed in a library at Hood College.

The FBI looked into Mr. Weisberg long before he published his first book in 1965, however.

In 1939, Mr. Weisberg jeopardized the security of government information by leaking to a communist newspaper, The Daily Worker, and harbored subversive ideological sympathies, the FBI file states.

Throughout the years, government documents contain frequent attacks on the author's character, describing him as a miscreant with delusions of conspiracy.

As Mr. Weisberg's efforts to obtain information for his books continued from the 1960s onward, the FBI tried to obstruct his work. The FBI ignored his requests even after the passage of the Freedom of Information Act in 1966, culminating in a 1970 memorandum from Mr. Hoover to a deputy assistant attorney general instructing that no information be given to Mr. Weisberg.

"In view of Weisberg's character, he should not be given the information he requests, and there is legal ground for our position," Mr. Hoover's memo states.

For decades, Mr. Weisberg was watching the government. And for decades, it was watching him back.

In part one of a two-part investigation into the confrontational history between Mr. Weisberg and the FBI, The Frederick News-Post will examine his early government career.

These conflicts established the groundwork for the FBI's later accusations that Mr. Weisberg was a communist and deserved to be denied access to information about JFK's assassination.

In part two on Monday, the newspaper will explore the details of the historian's battles for government transparency. Part two will also look into the growing FBI case against Mr. Weisberg's supposed political beliefs and how they played a significant role when he was trying to find out the truth about President John F. Kennedy's assassination.

Although the FBI's efforts would increase after Mr. Weisberg began publishing his books, the roots of his FBI file go back to some of the earliest moments of the nation's anti-communist fervor.

Mr. Weisberg was not only a later victim of the Cold War ethos; he was also an early casualty.

The New World

As the torrents of immigrants into the United States continued in the early 20th century, the waves of western Europeans were replaced by eastern Europeans, who in turn became the new victims of not only anti-immigration ideology but also virulent anti-Semitism and anti-communism.

Mr. Weisberg was part of this changing society as the son of two Jewish immigrants from Russia. He was born on April 8, 1913, in a working-class neighborhood in Philadelphia.

In a 1993 interview with Joy Derr of Hood College, Mr. Weisberg remarked how significant his birth in America was.

"I'm the first member of my family, as I've thought often in recent years, ever born into freedom, going back as far as Adam and Eve," he said.

Friends of the writer believe that his family's background was an influential component in formulating his faith in America's promise and ideals.

"He, being a first-generation American, was extremely patriotic," said Clayton Ogilvie, a friend and caretaker of Mr. Weisberg's archives. "His patriotic fervor was based on his parents telling him stories of the old country."

After high school, Mr. Weisberg worked as a reporter for the Wilmington Morning News and the Philadelphia Ledger, and he obtained some college education at the University of Delaware in Newark before dropping out when his father died.

Mr. Weisberg then went to work for the government.

Leaky Allegations

According to the FBI file, Mr. Weisberg's first position with the government was on the U.S. Committee on Education and Labor, also known as the LaFollette Civil Liberties Committee, headed by U.S. Sen. Robert M. LaFollette, Jr., of Wisconsin.

The committee had begun during President Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal as part of a National Labor Relations Board inquiry into attempts by businesses to disrupt unions. At the time, labor reform efforts were increasingly seen as tantamount to communism.

Mr. Weisberg began working for the committee in September 1936 and was stationed in Harlan, Ky., known as "Bloody Harlan" for its violence, to investigate the efforts of coal owners to dismantle labor's strength. In a 1993 interview, he told Ms. Derr he was "deep" into the region's corporate corruption and violence.

Mr. Weisberg's actions were apparently high-profile enough that the Louisville division of the FBI was alerted by an unnamed person that he was in the state, according to a December 1947 summary of Mr. Weisberg's activities.

Although FBI files from the late 1940s indicate Mr. Weisberg ceased working for Mr. LaFollette in June 1939, the reason for his dismissal is not established until the mid-1960s, following the publication of his first book, which was critical of the FBI.

In a June 6, 1966 memo from Alex Rosen, the FBI assistant director of the general investigative division, to Cartha "Deke" DeLoach, the assistant to the director in charge of investigations, Mr. LaFollette fired Mr. Weisberg for leaking information to The Daily Worker, the foremost communist newspaper in America.

Neither the specific allegations or accuser is established until more than 25 years after the fact.

Until the Rosen-DeLoach memo, FBI files only identified Mr. Weisberg as editor of committee publications by a "reliable source of information" who knew him from 1936 to 1937 and "was of the opinion that Mr. Weisberg was at least a communist sympathizer, but probably was closer than that to the Party."

Labor Problems

During the same time period that Mr. Weisberg was in Harlan, Martin Dies, a Texas Democrat in the House of Representatives, got a resolution passed on May 26, 1938 to create the Dies Committee.

Although ostensibly created to focus on German-American activities in American Nazi organizations and the Ku Klux Klan, the committee was actually the forerunner to the House Un-American Activities Committee. It spent its time looking for communist sympathizers in New Deal groups such as the Federal Theatre Project.

According to the FBI files, in March 1940, Mr. Weisberg told officials that following his dismissal from the LaFollette Committee, he conducted "special research" for the Dies Committee. No specific chronology of his work is available in the FBI file.

The reason why a government body that evolved into a group synonymous with anti-communism would hire someone who had spent three years investigating on the side of labor and allegedly leaking information to the very people Dies was trying to destroy is unclear, from both the FBI files and past interviews with Mr. Weisberg himself.

"That does make it rather counterintuitive," said Gerald McKnight, emeritus professor of history at Hood and a friend of Mr. Weisberg's for 30 years.

According to the book "The Committee: The Extraordinary Career of the House Committee on Un-American Activities" by politics and ethics writer Walter Goodman, Mr. Dies had been actively trying to disrupt the LaFollette Committee with a proposal of an investigation into sit-down strikes "frankly designed to counteract" its work, which extended into 1941.

In Mr. Goodman's book, Mr. Weisberg was recruited by Gardner Jackson, a legislative representative of the pro-labor group Labor's Non-Partisan League, in an effort to uncover allegations that Mr. Dies had made a secret agreement with right-wing groups that any investigations would focus on left-leaning groups or individuals.

According to Mr. Goodman, David Mayne, a Washington representative of the fascist group Silver Shirts, founded by William Dudley Pelley, sold forged letters indicating a conspiracy between Mr. Dies and Mr. Pelley. Mr. Weisberg, on instructions from Mr. Jackson, bought these letters for $105.

Mr. Mayne, who eventually confessed to forging the letters in an attempt to trap anyone out to get Mr. Dies, was brought to trial, pleaded guilty and received a suspended sentence.

This event is referenced in a letter Mr. Weisberg wrote to someone named "Cameron" on March 14, 1940, in which he wrote he can send information about the "Mayne-entrapment story."

If he was actively trying to obtain more dire information about the Dies Committee while working for it, no information definitively indicates he was working as a double agent. The FBI reported on his activities in Harlan in 1936 but the files indicate Mr. Weisberg was not being studied until the investigation in March 1940.

Mr. Ogilvie said Mr. Weisberg knew about bribery and misconduct among committee officials.

"He found corruption within the Dies Committee," he said, adding that Mr. Weisberg was brought before a grand jury and made a scapegoat for his work. "They knew they were being subject to scrutiny they couldn't afford."

Mr. McKnight was also aware of these events, and said Lillian, Mr. Weisberg's wife and a worker in the U.S. agricultural department, alerted her husband to the coming problem when she saw his name in a memo.

"(His work in Harlan) got the attention of the Dies Committee," Mr. McKnight said. "(Mr.) Dies would not have any problem with union leaders being blown up in their homes."

In one of the 1993 interviews with Ms. Derr, Mr. Weisberg alluded to a confrontation with the Dies Committee.

"They framed me. It was a hell of a fight," he said. "I won...I took the grand jury away from the United States Attorney and I got the Dies agent indicted on two felony charges. That was an experience like you can't imagine."

Following Mr. Weisberg's strange role with the Dies Committee, the FBI files indicate he worked for two magazines, Click and Friday as its Washington, D.C. correspondent. While with Friday, Mr. Weisberg wrote an article critical of Assistant Secretary of State Adolf A. Berle, Jr., in 1940.

Mr. Weisberg told Ms. Derr that much of his reporting work centered on uncovering the business of Nazi cartels. The FBI took notice, mentioning his 1941 Click article about a Czech shoe manufacturer entitled "Hitler's Foot Soldier."

The FBI also notes, "one Harold Weisberg was connected with the offices of Congressman Vito Marcantonio," a politician noted for his radical leftist politics. The FBI's summary states "it is not known if this individual is identical with the subject of this memorandum."

Mr. Weisberg did have contact with the congressman, according to those who knew him.

"They were good social friends," Mr. McKnight said. "That's all (Mr.) Hoover would need to know."

From Dec. 18, 1942 to Nov. 17, 1944, Mr. Weisberg served in the U.S. Army. He did not see combat because he came down with mumps.

But very little of this information surfaces on FBI memos actually dated for this time period. It is not until Mr. Weisberg is again fired from a government agency, this time the State Department, for being an alleged communist, that the FBI begins its prolonged interest in his activities.

Postwar Paranoia

"The United States was trying, in the postwar decade, to create a national consensus -- excluding the radicals, who could not support a foreign policy aimed at suppressing revolution -- of conservatives and liberals, Republicans and Democrats, around the policies of cold war and anti-Communism," writes historian Howard Zinn in "A People's History of the United States."

One of the marked results of the worries over domestic subversion was the FBI's move toward investigations of political ideology, particularly among government workers. Immunity for government employees did not exist on any level, and Mr. Weisberg was caught up in the purges of suspected communists in government positions.

In a recent interview with The Frederick News-Post, Mr. DeLoach said the FBI's inquiries into the Communist Party were necessary. Once the priorities of the FBI shifted from working on crime to intelligence gathering and espionage during World War II, investigating communists was a natural part of the FBI's missions, he said.

"The Communist Party, today, people think, is a futile organization," he said. "The Soviets viewed it as an excellent propaganda and espionage tool."

As an example, Mr. DeLoach pointed to the FBI's "Solo Case," which detailed the attempts of Soviet officials to buy influence in America's Communist Party for millions of dollars.

Mr. DeLoach emphasized every case on suspected communists was opened for good reasons, and the variety of FBI informants were of good quality.

"Our purpose was to investigate and report to the attorney general and the president of the United States. We didn't decide the principals," he said. "In order to protect the best interests of the United States, it was absolutely necessary to investigate communism."

On March 24, 1947, President Harry Truman issued Executive Order No. 9835, establishing the Federal Employees Loyalty and Security Program.

In "Truman," historian David McCullough details how the president was pressured into this decision by the elections of 1946, in which Republicans had successfully campaigned on a platform of sniffing out communists. Mr. Truman hoped an executive initiative could blunt the overzealous factions in government.

"Importantly, he wanted no accusations of administration softness on communism at home just as he was calling for a new hard approach to communism abroad," Mr. McCullough wrote.

Under the program, 212 government employees were fired. Harold Weisberg was one of them.

Anti-Government or Anti-Semitic?

Beginning in March 1946, Mr. Weisberg, despite being an alleged political dissident and leaker to subversive literature, was hired by the Office of Strategic Services, the forerunner to the Central Intelligence Agency.

According to the FBI, he worked in the research and analysis branch for the Latin American division.

Mr. McKnight said a difference in security culture between then and now, as well as the lack of truth to Mr. Weisberg's communist leanings, were probably the reasons a suspected communist was able to receive a job dealing with highly sensitive information.

"I don't think people were as wrapped up in security as they are today," he said. "I think if he were a stand-up card-carrying member he wouldn't have gotten into security matters."

But it did not take long for the federal government to become suspicious of Mr. Weisberg.

On Nov. 26, 1946, months before Mr. Truman's loyalty program started, the State Department began its own inquiry into Mr. Weisberg, running a neighborhood investigation, reference checks, and, most tellingly, a review of the Dies Committee reports and Committee on Un-American Activities information.

Soon afterward, the State Department brought in the FBI, and although a Dec. 5, 1946, "spot check" of Mr. Weisberg came up with no information, 15 days later the FBI said he was a friend and contact for people under investigation in the Nathan Gregory Silvermaster case.

The Silvermaster, or "Gregory" case, was an investigation into a Soviet spy ring in the Department of Treasury. The FBI does not give any further elaboration regarding Mr. Weisberg's association with the Silvermaster case, despite repeating the claim in multiple FBI memos.

After a seven-month investigation, Mr. Weisberg and nine other employees were dismissed on June 23, 1947, under the McCarran Rider, which authorized the Secretary of State to terminate any employee when it would be in the best interests of the United States.

Mr. Weisberg's communist sympathies are only definitively described in FBI documents following his dismissal from the State Department, and allegations against him continually expand as he becomes a high-profile critic of the FBI in the 1960s.

It cannot be answered why Mr. Weisberg's communist sympathies were not detailed earlier, and the knowledge gap lends credibility to any claims the FBI only set about looking for its evidence after it had decided the conclusion.

Both Mr. Ogilvie and David Wrone, history professor emeritus from University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point and a friend of Mr. Weisberg's, believe anti-Semitism had more to do with his firing from the State Department than communism.

"(The employees) were Jews...it was an anti-Semitic thing," Mr. Wrone said. "Harold Weisberg was not a communist by any means. It was a political maneuver, so they tried to make them look like communists."

Because of his politics and dealings with labor, Mr. Weisberg inevitably knew communists, Mr. McKnight said, but there is a difference between those interactions and collusion.

"I don't doubt that Harold socialized (with communists), but he was never a card-carrying member," he said. "But it didn't matter in those days."

After a legal battle, Mr. Weisberg and his dismissed colleagues were allowed to resign from the State Department without any record against them in November 1947.

Mr. Weisberg's file contains a letter from his attorneys, several of whom played large parts in Mr. Roosevelt's administration and the New Deal -- Thurman Arnold, Abe Fortas, Paul A. Porter and Milton V. Freeman. The letter thanks Mr. Weisberg for a gift he sent.

"You know it was a pleasure to be of service to you and your own calmness and dignity under the most adverse circumstances were in no small measure responsible for your ultimate vindication," the letter states.

But in the FBI files, Mr. Weisberg was anything but vindicated.

ONE MAN VS. ONE GOVERNMENT (Part 2 of 2)

By Liam Farrell

News-Post Staff

Among Harold Weisberg's voluminous files, the late, self-made historian had written a small note, possibly meant only for his eyes.

It is a poem, a brief rumination on the power of confusion. It contains a reference to an excerpt in the Bible, Isaiah 59 : 9

"So justice is far from us, and righteousness does not reach us," the Bible passage reads. "We look for light, but all is darkness; for brightness, but we walk in deep shadows."

Such sentiment is indelible to Mr. Weisberg, who spent the bulk of his lifetime searching for answers to what he considered the darkest and most troubling events in American history.

Mr. Weisberg, who died in 2002 at the age of 88 at his Frederick County home, is known for a tumultuous career investigating assassinations and self-publishing controversial books asserting government wrongdoing and cover-ups.

His eight books, notably "Whitewash: The Report on the Warren Report," "Whitewash II: The FBI-Secret Service Cover-up," and "Post-mortem: JFK Assassination Cover-up Smashed!," primarily focused on the investigation into President John F. Kennedy's 1963 assassination, and Mr. Weisberg tried to use the government's own documents against it.

He asserted the FBI and Warren Commission inquires into JFK's assassination were faulty, ignoring, discarding, or obscuring evidence, and were preconceived to conclude that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin.

Mr. Weisberg worked extensively in getting the government to release documents on the JFK assassination and others, such as the shooting death of Martin Luther King, Jr.

In an interview with Joy Derr of Hood College in 1993, he estimated he had been involved in 13 separate lawsuits to obtain information, most of which he managed to get released.

In all, he donated the more than 300,000 government documents he collected in filing cabinets in his basement to Hood College.

"(My work) is selfish. It's selfish," Mr. Weisberg told Ms. Derr. "Here I was, the first member of my family ever born into freedom and when I was old enough to realize it, I felt that I had an obligation to meet.

"What are (poet Robert) Frost's words? 'Promises to keep and miles to go before we sleep'? It gave me an opportunity to repay that obligation. And it means much to me, so much to me that although I have sleep problems I never have trouble falling asleep."

Mr. Weisberg's FBI file was obtained by The Frederick News-Post through the Freedom of Information Act.

The FBI, which had investigated Mr. Weisberg since the late 1930s and escalated its efforts after he was dismissed from the State Department for allegedly being a communist, had not stopped watching him after he left public employment in 1947.

In fact, the legacy of dissidence he created during his government career, from 1936 with the LaFollette Civil Liberties Commission to 1947 when he was fired from the State Department, would haunt him as he worked to investigate the JFK assassination and other historic events.

Counting chickens

Mr. Weisberg's reappearance in FBI files was not planned. The roughly 16 years between his dismissal from the State Department's Office of Strategic Services for alleged communist sympathies and the assassination of Mr. Kennedy were focused mainly on chicken farming.

In the early 1960s, Mr. Weisberg made headlines in Frederick newspapers because of the work on his Coq d'Or Farm in Hyattstown, where he and his wife, Lillian, raised an assortment of poultry and founded the "Geese for Peace" program, which donated ducklings and geese to St. Lucia and Liberia for the Peace Corps and subsistence farming programs.

Mr. Weisberg was also an award-winning cook, claiming the National Barbecue King title in 1959. His wife was also a star in that field, winning many contests, including being named the 1956 National Chicken Cooking Champion.

According to the interview with Ms. Derr, on Nov. 22, 1963, Mr. Weisberg was in the henhouse gathering eggs when the transistor radio on his waist broadcast the news that Mr. Kennedy had been shot.

"I stayed glued to the television as much as I could," he said. "None of the things that happened should have happened."

Lee Harvey Oswald was killed the following day and about two weeks later Mr. Weisberg filed a lead and summary for a proposed book to his agent, convinced from the suspicious train of events in Dallas that Oswald could not have been the true assassin.

The reply was not what he expected.

"She said 'I can't possibly handle this because nobody in New York will consider anything other than what the government is saying'," Mr. Weisberg told Ms. Derr. "She was so right you can't imagine how right. I couldn't get another agent."

Fighting the power

Mr. Weisberg's overt conflicts with the government began again in 1961, when Mr. Weisberg and his wife filed a federal torts suit against the government for $9,950 in damages caused by low-flying helicopters they claimed were ruining their poultry farm. The Weisbergs were awarded $750, but the most serious damage the FBI did to Mr. Weisberg had nothing to do with farming.

During the 1950s the FBI had been building its case that Mr. Weisberg was a communist. A memo from the special agent in charge in the Washington Field Office to FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover on Jan. 1, 1955, implicates Mr. Weisberg in the Harry Dexter White espionage case, which was related to the investigation of the Treasury Department spy ring and Nathan Gregory Silvermaster.

The memo concerns a suspect in the White case whose name was blacked out by the FBI. A telephone directory seized from this person's home by Washington Metro Police in 1948 contained Mr. Weisberg's name, according to the FBI file.

No information is provided to explain Mr. Weisberg's connection to either investigation. The events relating to the espionage cases occurred seven years prior to the memo, and no other documents in the FBI file contain this information.

While the telephone directory did not become part of the FBI's official canon of communism on Mr. Weisberg, other tenuous information did.

The FBI states Mr. Weisberg inquired in Sept. 1959 about how Soviets would react to his chickens competing against Russian poultry. Despite the time frame of this information and some ambiguous references in earlier memos, the alleged communist activities of Mr. Weisberg on his farm are only published in definitive form in memos dating from the mid-1960s and later.

This demonstrates the significant increase in the amount of correspondence detailing Mr. Weisberg's life after the release of his first two books -- in 1965 and 1966.

In a summary of Mr. Weisberg's history from Nov. 8, 1966, new information is inserted, stating the farmer held celebrations of the Russian Revolution with an annual picnic "attended by 25 or 30 people." No informant or source of the new information is cited.

David Wrone, professor emeritus of history from University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point and a friend of Mr. Weisberg's, said the idea of Mr. Weisberg holding celebrations of the Russian Revolution is absurd.

He said Mr. Weisberg would invite a local rabbi and Jewish children to his farm, letting them play with his animals in celebration of the Jewish new year.

"They were observing a Jewish ritual," Mr. Wrone said. "That was in September. The Russian Revolution was in the last part of October."

Mr. Weisberg got the files the FBI had on him, Mr. Wrone said, and he was extremely troubled by this information.

"It so enraged Harold when he got these documents," he said. "Why would someone do this?"

The farmer knew the FBI was watching him, Mr. Wrone said, as Mr. Weisberg could often pick out "men in dark suits" during public appearances to talk about his books and he kept a log of the suspicious phone calls he received in the middle of the night.

The first major criticism of Mr. Weisberg's work, and not his alleged political beliefs, occurs after the printing of his first book, "Whitewash: The Report on the Warren Report," which contended both the FBI and Warren Commission engaged in egregious failures of evidentiary investigation to reach a preconceived conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin.

In a June 6, 1966 memo from FBI assistant director Alex Rosen to Cartha "Deke" DeLoach, an assistant to Mr. Hoover and the No. 3 man in the FBI, Mr. Weisberg is attacked for what the FBI considers his book's failures.

"Due to the inaccuracies, falsehoods and deliberate slanting of facts to fit his own purpose, coupled with Weisberg's subversive background...it is not felt the Bureau should add dignity or credibility to him by acknowledging his communication," Mr. Rosen writes.

Mr. Rosen did not stray from personal attacks in the memo.

"He also said that there are nervous people and neurotics inevitably (sic) there are those who have axes to grind -- hatreds or dislikes to be indulged, and political objectives to be attained," Mr. Rosen wrote. "From these comments it would appear Weisberg is adequately describing himself."

This memo also offers a paragraph of background information that is included in virtually all correspondence about Mr. Weisberg's publications and attempts to get government documents.

"Following a review of this book it was determined it is nothing more than a vitriolic and diabolical criticism of the President's Commission and the FBI relating to the assassination of President Kennedy," the memo states.

Credibility and character

Mr. DeLoach, who worked extensively with the media and the release of information during the JFK investigation, was confident the FBI, the Warren Commission and others involved in the JFK assassination reached the right conclusion.

"Many authors try to sell a book and get a fast buck," he said in a recent interview with The Frederick News-Post. "The fact remains that Lee Harvey Oswald and Lee Harvey Oswald alone assassinated John F. Kennedy."

Although he did not remember Mr. Weisberg well, Mr. DeLoach said he read his work on the Martin Luther King, Jr., assassination, which was of primary concern because he headed the FBI's investigation.

He said Mr. Weisberg's work contained "many fallacies."

"We always looked at criticism to determine whether they were valid or not," Mr. DeLoach said. "We never investigated the authors (of critical books) just to investigate them."

In addition, Mr. DeLoach said the FBI worked as efficiently as possible giving out information to the public, but the FBI has responsibilities to its sources and the sensitivity of its files.

"We tried the best we could to give out any information," he said. "I have many good friends in the press. I've always worked with the press and trusted them."

Although the FBI goes to great lengths detailing its disagreements with Mr. Weisberg's findings and his statements during radio and television appearances, the agency also criticized his character and used his background as a reason not to give him information.

Here are some examples:

"All in all, the interview with Weisberg was a rehash of the many unfounded allegations which have been made concerning the assassination and merely another effort on the part of a writer to exploit the assassination for his own financial gain." - Milton A. Jones, chief of FBI crime records to Robert E. Wick, Mr. DeLoach's deputy, Sept. 13, 1966.

"In view of Weisberg's suspected Communist background, it was recommended...that the FBI could not be of assistance to Weisberg in this matter." - memo from R.H. Jevons, FBI assistant, to Ivan W. Conrad, assistant chief of FBI Bureau Lab, Nov. 8, 1966.

"In view of Weisberg's background and his baseless allegations toward Bureau Agents, it is not felt his letter of March 24th or any subsequent correspondence should be acknowledged as it will only encourage further letters from him." -- memo from G.E. Malmfeldt, an agent of the FBI, to Thomas E. Bishop, assistant FBI director, April 1, 1969.

"It is unfortunate that the change in administration has not and apparently will not make you certain that the element of politics played no role in the investigation of the assassination of President Kennedy or the formulation of the guidelines for release to the public of information on the matter in Government files." - letter from Will Wilson, assistant attorney general criminal division, to Mr. Weisberg, April 8, 1969.

Some of these quotes are contradictory in noting how Mr. Weisberg's communist background precludes agency cooperation while publicly telling him politics are not a factor.

In a memo from Mr. Hoover to an assistant attorney general, dated Oct. 28, 1970, the director sets forth a policy based on Mr. Weisberg's background.

"In view of Weisberg's character, he should not be given the information he requests, and there is legal ground for our position," the memo states.

In denying Mr. Weisberg's requests for information, the FBI had offered any one of three reasons: Mr. Weisberg was incorrect, the FBI did not have the information he was looking for and his requests were not legitimate because he had a history of communist activity.

The timing of the FBI's allegations, and the testimony of friends that its information about Mr. Weisberg is baseless, can easily lead to the question of what the bureau's real motives were.

Mr. Weisberg suspected the FBI was trying to obstruct him, commenting in a Frederick News-Post article on July 31, 1980, "The truth is (the FBI is) out to get me...they're out to stop me."

Even years before, when he was working as an investigator for James Earl Ray, accused of killing Martin Luther King, Jr., Mr. Weisberg wrote a letter to Attorney General John Mitchell on March 12, 1969, accusing the FBI of spreading false information about him.

"I have been informed that teams of FBI agents are going around telling people, some of whom I have never met, that I am a dangerous person, in some unspecified way under 'Communist' influence," the letter states.

In spite of what the FBI file contains, the people who knew Mr. Weisberg are adamant that he was not a communist.

Mr. Wrone said the author spent his life trying to improve America's institutions, not bring them down.

"He thought this was the greatest country that ever lived," he said. "Sometimes people call that patriotism."

Gerald McKnight, professor emeritus at Hood College and a friend of Mr. Weisberg's for 30 years, said the farmer's personality could be overwhelming and confrontational, and although such an attitude harmed their friendship it was necessary to the work he did.

"There was a real authentic loyalty to the United States. He was determined to fight this tooth and nail," Mr. McKnight said. "He had a cathedral-like ego. One had to put up with that because it took someone like that."

Mr. McKnight said Mr. Weisberg's accomplishments, regardless of his personality, deserve respect.

"He was dictatorial, a control freak," he said. "On the other hand I have to honor him because he was a remarkable man. Every day of his life he worked on this topic."

Listening to Mr. Weisberg's own statements, he is candid about what he tried to accomplish.

"If you want your country to be what it's supposed to be, no matter how many times you don't succeed, you keep on trying," Mr. Weisberg told Ms. Derr. "If you want to accept what happened and pretend it didn't happen, you have a right to do it. But I don't want a country that lies to the people.

"I don't want a country in which a president can be gunned down in broad daylight on the streets of an American city and consigned to history with the dubious epitaph of a whitewashed investigation.

"I don't want a country in which federal agents can lie with impunity, including under oath, and only be promoted for it, in which the courts don't work the way they're supposed to work, in which the Congress doesn't and the media don't.

"And I don't think it's going to change right away. I have reason to believe it will but I know that if you don't try you can't succeed."....

****************************************************

Harold Weisberg Died Feb. 21, 2002

Mr. Harold Weisberg, 88, of Frederick, renowned authority and author on the

assassination of President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., died

Thursday, Feb. 21, at his home in Frederick. He was the husband of Lillian Stone

Weisberg.

Born on April 8, 1913, in Philadelphia, he was a son of the late Frederick and

Sarah Spiegle Weisberg.

Mr. Weisberg was educated in public schools in Philadelphia and Wilmington,

Del. He attended the University of Delaware, and was later conferred with a

degree of Doctor of Humane Letters, from Hood College in 1993.

Mr. Weisberg was author of seven books that revealed many government

inaccuracies in the assassination of the late President John Fitzgerald Kennedy

and the late Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Hundreds of thousands of pages, papers

and information obtained directly through various government agencies, and which

formed the basis for his writings and conclusions, were given to Hood College in

Frederick.

Mr. Weisberg worked in journalism with the Wilmington Morning News and later

the Philadelphia Ledger. He also worked as a Senate Committee Investigator, and

served in the U.S. Army during World War II.

He and his wife lived in Hyattstown prior to moving to Frederick County, where

they raised poultry on the Coq d'Or Farm. Mr. Weisberg was a renowned gourmet

cook, and he and Mrs. Weisberg won many honors throughout the Delmarva region

and nationally. Mr. Weisberg was named national barbecue king in 1959.

Besides his wife, he is survived by two sisters, Gloria Packer and husband

Marvin of Philadelphia, and Alma Handelman of Delaware; and a number of nieces

and nephews.

He was preceded in death by his step-father, Harry Kety.

He will be remembered by his many associates, followers and historians, with

whom he enjoyed spending time at his home, and sharing information and stories.

Funeral services were held Monday, Feb. 25, at Etchison Memorial Chapel of

Keeney and Basford Funeral Home, 106 E. Church St., Frederick. The Rev. Dr. W.

Phillip Fogarty officiated.

Interment will be in Resthaven Memorial Gardens, Frederick.

In lieu of flowers, the family requests memorial donations to Hood College,

Harold Weisberg Archives, c/o Jan Samet, 401 Rosemont Ave., Frederick, MD 21701.

*********************

B........

Ron:

FWIW......Photo of Larry Florer.....

B....

Ron

In the book JFK : The Second Plot, there is some information of an arrest of a young man in a black leather jacket,

and gloves...who had been in the Dal Tex building....I do not have his source, only a note I made...??

Whomever there was no further record....Could be in there that you read such or ??

I also have this FBI document below, for whatever it may be worth to you.....there are some names listed..

If you find any more information please let us know. It is one of those, I never got back to...

Thanks

B..

Yes, it is Greer and Kellerman,I have nothing on the other man to the right...

He reminded me of Lem Johns, but he was assigned to LBJ, and no it is not him.

There are agents, that we do have photos of, but no name that were active at that time..

Their names were not freely known, still are not....

Below on the left is seen Clint Hill who was only assigned to Jackie......

B......

Actually!

As was long ago stated on this forum, his wife as well as his son, both stated to me personally that Abe Zapruder was 5' 10" tall.

So, unless someone has a copy of his autopsy/death report, or his drivers license, I personally would assume that to be "best available evidence".

Barefoot, or wearing shoes?

Jack

With hat or without, on pedestal or not......

B......

Saying anything after a program is released, and out there, and that barn door has been opened, and the horse is out,

has done absolutely no good in the past.

B.....

I am speaking prior to the release. We can tell that the DC has thrown down a gauntlet. The intention appears to be not only to find some new converts, but to cause a reaction in the CT community. My advice is to not react, but just to calmly analyze whatever is shown and how it is shown. Why would anyone try to use a tv program to conclusively *prove* anything? What were they thinking?

Even the press release shows us that this is not a show intended for critical scrutiny. They are attempting to tell the public what to think -- and any researcher ought to know better than to allow that to happen.

The intent seems to be to discard all *possible* sources of the Z313 shot *except* for the TSBD. Trying to make a case for a TSBD shot is one thing, and perfectly ok; trying to claim it proves something *exclusively* puts them at a higher level, with an almost impossibly high bar.

**************

That is exactly what they have done for 45 years through commissions, reports, books, articles, documentaries,and telly,

nothing has changed...

This certainly is far from new, to any who have been into it for many of those years...the Z313,TSBD, Oswald has been exclusively

pushed....so very many times.....that is what they have been trying to prove,to the public, which has not worked, as the majority have

and do believe it was a conspiracy since 64...

Go back to 67 they did the same with the W/R..telly edition with good

ole Dan Rather.....D.C threw that gauntlet down back in 64, when the W/C was released...and they continue..

The shots came from the TSBD, by the LA..Oswald and Z313 is the shot that hit him in the head from the back, and that

is when the POTUS..was killed.........

Same old to analyse, so stay quiet and sit back and let them do so, without a word, so the public out there,

before they see the program do not hear a word of dissent from

others about such...and some can possibly be led astray, in particular young people.....who perhaps have not

studied, not even seen the movie JFK......

..It is nothing more than another ho hum...distorted Discovery Channel one sided documentary....

No thanks...I don't think so......

This is not their first by far , they have all been cut out of the same piece of cloth,

so no it is not the dedicated researchers that have been fooled.....they have been well aware

for many years......

While others and some of the public, it does appear did fall for some of their many ploys....

B........[/b]

Hi Bill :

Here is a link you may be interested in.....

On the left....LHO in Montreal.....scroll down..

http://somesecretsforyou.blogspot.com/

For now....

Take care.....

B....

Costella Combined Edit Frames (updated 2006)

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/?

?

B......

Deputy.Sherrif….McCurley

“ I ran over and jumped a fence and a railroad worker stated to me that he believed the smoke from the bullets came from the vicinity of a stockade fence which surrounds the park area.”… 19H514

B...

This one makes it even more weird.

Jack

Jack ??

Whom is the half man seen in the last bottom frame in Nix of your post ,in a pink shirt....

but then perhaps those are his detached legs, below.him......??

I know rediculous, but so are these frames of the Nix....I do believe...

But then

someone will no doubt come upon us and say those are the worse copies of the Nix

frames taken from the worse copy, ever seen..yada...

And you know why, cause that can't be because that would mean, they do not jive with

the Zapruder film which as taken at the same time, in history,

oh well, tomorrow is another day..

Chris where are you.....any thoughts....??

Thanks B.....

Bernice...that is a WOMAN in a pink shirt and a man in a blue shirt running toward the Franzens.

Otherwise, I do not understand your question.

Jack

See below Jack, that is a woman and a man in the red box, bottom left.......??

Thanks B.....

This one makes it even more weird.

Jack

Jack ??

Whom is the half man seen in the last bottom frame in Nix of your post ,in a pink shirt....

but then perhaps those are his detached legs, below.him......??

I know rediculous, but so are these frames of the Nix....I do believe...

But then

someone will no doubt come upon us and say those are the worse copies of the Nix

frames taken from the worse copy, ever seen..yada...

And you know why, cause that can't be because that would mean, they do not jive with

the Zapruder film which as taken at the same time, in history,

oh well, tomorrow is another day..

Chris where are you.....any thoughts....??

Thanks B.....

Bill :

What year was it, when Len Osinac, did the interview with Jean on Black Op..would you know off hand.??

Did you get recordings of your many chats with Jean and or Mary, ??

Thanks.......

B...

No Bernice, I did not record my chats with Jean. Try to understand that I was not a reporter, nor was I trying to make a buck on the woman. One time during a visit to Dallas and having known jean through the JFK community, I had invited Jean out to dinner and she accepted. I paid for the meal ... she came to the Ramada Inn on Akard where I stayed and we ate on the 13th floor. It was a relaxed and private place to visit ... no reporters, no mics, no agents peeking from behind every corner. That was the type of relationship I sought with Jean. Other times we spoke by phone and/or in the Plaza. I was there when Mark Lane drew everyone's attention to the lady in red during the 35 year memorial in Dealey Plaza. I can still hear Mark's voice telling the crowd about Jean and that she is standing exactly where she was 35 years ago when JFK was murdered. (And for the record - Jean stood in the grass then, too!)

On a lighter note Jean would always say to me when she picked up the phone or saw me somewhere ... 'Hello Bill Miller from Illinois!' The first time I ever met her this was how I introduced myself and for some reason she thought it cute and would always say it aloud when we met or spoke on the phone. Maybe it was because that every time when I knew I was going to see her - I brought her an apple because of her being a school teacher.

And yes, I do remember the year Jean's interview was on black op' for I believe it was the only interview she did with that show. I had posted this way back when you and I, along with Jack and many others were on the DelleRosa forum. I'm a little puzzled as to why as closely as you followed the Moorman in the street debate that you never bothered to go listen to Jean's interview. As I recall it was in 2000 and Jean had a three part interview. I cannot be 100% sure at this time if it was one show divided into three parts or three dates that her interviews appeared on there, but my memory tells me that it was one interview divided into three parts. It was on the third section at the 18:00 to 19:00 minute mark on the player I used to hear it. I believe I posted it at 18:20 seconds or so for when the caller started talking to Jean.

I see now that Len doesn't seem to offer any longer the shows as archived so to be heard for free, but rather he sells the interviews for a small price. I hope that I have given you a good lead so to go listen to Jean in the event you didn't do it any of the other times I posted about it when it was a simple archived interview that could be heard merely by clicking onto Len's link.

Bill Miller

****************

First Thank you Kathy for the link, appreciated....I was going to eventually have a search just in case it was available on the web,

but today has been an exceptionally busy one...so I am grateful...I will have a listen....

B..

********************

Now William, first thank you also for the information in your post, now don't go getting snitty, as it is catchy...for every reaction there is.....yada yada .

as you know..

I have listened to how many, I have no idea , since 2000, or how many in the past year, no idea whatsoever...I do have Len's archived interviews.....that I purchased..a few years ago...

I will find such and when I get the time I will have a look......as it may be on there.....

If it was enabled back in 2000 during the Moorman in the street ,research debates,( ) I may have if it was accessible....that would be

8 years ago....and I will not stretch the truth and say I did....

It was the year as you are aware I was interested in.........as you know, from past threads, we have joined in, I value what they call first day evidence, including first recall more so than any real later recall....

I do not value changes to such, nor changes to evidence, documentation, facts etc down through the years....and I place no value in thinkies....imo

all that does is stir the pot and confuse all the more as it sets out to do, it changes history....and what we may know...it can be a pain I am aware but so be it...

So as seen here, no I cannot recall off hand exactly what Jean may or may not have said on Len's program,in 2000, nor in the past year right now,

that I may have heard ..

after listening to so many other in between...let alone 8 years ago........

..if it is on my purchased archives from Len then yes, I will have since, but no I cannot state vertum what she

may have said, and would not guess, and I doubt you could nor anyone, after the passing of much time......without first having a quick listen , and then pretending..

they could.....like get real..........as this is far from the only aspect of the.. research..

But that is exactly the point.....you put me somewhat on the defensive with your tactics, as you do so with great regularity with so many, which imo

is a well honed ploy......learn to back off a bit Bill, and others would also....no one knows all....no one should ever pretend to..it is simply not possible,

and none are looked down upon for being so.....and so now you must put up with my rambling, that's what you get in return.......

As the years go by, even Jean and I have read so many times what a lovely woman she really was...etc.....but

even so, that has nothing to do with her memory, nor her recall..... as the memory does fade and does not recall exactly, it simply happens....

....with all..and yes I have read her book...and referenced to it.......in the past..which also was written some years later, and which she also

at the time I do seem to recall she was not satisfied with parts within said book that were written without her corrections or some such......??

not positive but such is niggling..aw that memory...

Some witnesses have built on their information down through the years,and created mountains, to the point of what then became books....

in one case a tome... ......others did not, but some information did change

somewhat within their recall as you also are aware.....but in both instances there were changes from what they originally stated....some

perhaps only slight others completely changed their recall.....but there were changes...

You also have mentioned this I do believe in the past.....with some of the witnesses....in the follys of posts within a thread...

You have also mentioned many times, about your recall of what Jean had stated to you, but now when asked directly ,you have stated you do not have any tapes either.....

Perhaps that was the reason for the eh ?? tone of your reply, but I do appreciate your being up front and saying so......

But you also have accused Jack of not having any tapes, and that he should have gotten such, so the next natural question also was why did you not....??

I realize neither of you were reporters etc, but that is neither here nor there now...the bottom line is neither of you did...

So I think this aspect of the information, now stands at a draw, what he recalls, and what you recall her

saying to each of you personally, is to each his own, but that is as far as it goes.......IMO...

as neither has her on tape....so neither can prove so....I am not being a rude here , but

stating a fact....

Thanks all .....for now

carry on carrying on...

B....

H

THIS IS FIRST DAY TESTIMONY FROM THE TWO CLOSEST WITNESSES.

Jack

Posted Feb.2007

B...........

Never have I ever seen an embracing of obvious exaggerations and errors over the word of the witness herself. Jean talks like no one was around her, yet there were people on both sides of her and behind. Of course this is little stuff ... when the caller phones Black Op to speak with Jean, he specifically wanted to know about where she stood during the shooting. Jean backed him up and clarified her leaving the street BEFORE the first shot was fired. This can be heard in Jean's own words and yet someone like Jack wants to forget what his good friend said in the real and dwell in less than detailed snippets in order to try and appear correct. Like I said earlier, Jack could have gone to Jean and gotten a video or recording getting Jean to clarify things if for no other reason than to validate his claim, but he didn't. The same can be done while Moorman is still alive, but he doesn't. Mark Oakes who is a friend of Moorman's and who sells her photograph autographed by Mark sates that Mary thinks the 'Moorman in the street' stuff is just plain silly (Mary's words).

Bill Miller

Bill :

What year was it, when Len Osinac, did the interview with Jean on Black Op..would you know off hand.??

Did you get recordings of your many chats with Jean and or Mary, ??

Thanks.......

B...

This should be easier to see....

Dated Jan. 24th 1994......Dr.McClelland

B.....

Don,I have to respectfully disagree with you.I have seen a episode on the History Channel that shows Dr.Mantik addressing the altered X-Ray.Good stuff.

Don :

This is not in reference to a History Channel.....program.

http://www.history.com/

It is another Discovery Channel program, in a so far series of four...

all coming to the same old...the W/C got it right.........

..Whose earlier programs have all been well known .....

for several years now, in doing so..........Nothing new.......

*******

But then it was the History Channel going back it was they who presented

TMWKK...and yes there was great information within, but as we know, they

were bought out after The Lady Bird siced her dogs , lawyers ?? on it.....

The last two in the series never to be made available again....more same old.

The LBJ, video undid it all.....

http://dsc.discovery.com/

Horse of a different colour......one could say......

B........

But Wim :

The Nix film and the Zapruder film were taken at the exact same moment in time.......

Therefore they should show exactly, the same identical situation....., but they do not.....???

B

Here is Jean Hill's part of the transcipt, that was taken on Nov.22/63.......

from David Lifton.....

FROM HERE ON OUT, the interview continues with Jean Hill

Q: (continuing)

And also, here, we do have Miss Hill. Miss Hill, you were an

eyewitness, also?

A: Yes, I was . I suppose we were the people closest to the

President's car at the time.

Q: Uh, that as about 10 or fifteen feet, you'd say?

A: Not anymore than that at all.

Q: Uh huh. You were both looking right at the presidential car, then?

A: Yes, we were looking right at the President. We were looking at his face.

As Mary took the picture, I was looking at him. And he grabbed his hands across

his ch-when two shots rang out. He grabbed his hands across his chest. I have

never seen anyone killed, or in pain before like that but there was this odd

look came across his face, and he pitched forward onto Jackie's lap.

DSL NOTE: I believe this must mean: "to the side onto Jackie's lap" --because Jackie was

to the left of JFK, not in front of JFK. In my interview of the Newman's, circa 1971, in

person, and on tape, they talk of JFK falling to the side, or being thrust towards Jackie.

A: And uh, she immediately, we were close enough to even hear her, and

everything, and she fell across him and says "My God, he's been shot."

Q: ..... Did you notice particularly any of the other people around? At the time (she cuts in)

A: There was NO one around us on our side of the street. We had planned it that way;

we wanted to be down there by ourselves; that’s the reason we had gotten almost

to the underpass, so we’d be completely in the clear.

Q: Any other reactions form the other people in the motorcae, that you recall?

A: The motorcade was stunned after the first two shots, and it came to a momentary halt,

and about that time 4 more uh, 3 to 4 more shots again rang out, and I guess it just didn't

register with me. Mary was uh had gotten down on the ground and was pulling at my leg,

saying "Get , get down, they're shooting, get down, they're shooting; and I didn't even

realize it. And I just kept sitting there looking. And uh uh just about that time, well,

of course, some of the motorcycles pulled away. And some of them pulled over to the side

and started running up the bank; there's a hill on the other side (she is interrupted)

Q: Yes, Maam.

A: And the shots came from there. After they were momentarily stopped--after the

first two shots--THEN they sped away REAL quickly.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: Well, thank you Miss Hill, and also Miss Moorman, for speaking with us about this.

A. Thankyou.

ANNOUNCER: That's two eyewitnesses to the murdered president, who saw on his face the

anguish of his very last hour alive. Before we go back to CBS, here again are some

announcements of special local importance.

*****************************

TO SUMMARIZE:

MOORMAN

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: 10 or fifteen foot, I, no more

2. WHERE WERE YOU: We stepped out in the street

3. HOW MANY SHOTS: three or four ... there might have been more.

4. WHAT DID MRS. KENNEDY DO: Mrs. Kennedy jumped up immediately, and fell over him;

and she said: "My God, he's been shot."

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO: they hesitated just for a moment...and they immediately sped up

6. WHAT DID THE MOTORCYCLES DO: they stopped

7. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: Oh, Lord? North.

8. WHAT DID YOUR PHOTO SHOW MRS. K DOING: he's bent over, and she's... and she

hadn't even gotten up in my picture, and she DID get up, STOOD UP, in the car.

HILL:

1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: about 10 or fifteen feet...not anymore than that at all.

2. WHAT DID THE PRESIDENT DO: he pitched forward onto Jackie's lap.

3. WHAT DID MRS. K DO: she fell across him and says "My God, he's been shot."

4. WERE THERE OTHER PEOPLE AROUND YOU: There was NO one around us on our side of the street

5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO:The motorcade was stunned after the first two shots, and it came

to a momentary halt. After they were momentarily stopped--after the first two shots--THEN

they sped away REAL quickly.

6. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: there's a hill on the other side...and the shots came

from there.

THIS IS FIRST DAY TESTIMONY FROM THE TWO CLOSEST WITNESSES.

Jack

Posted Feb.2007

B...........

Originally posted by Jack White, from David Lifton......

Yesterday while reviewing some transcribed old notes taken many years ago

at the National Archives, David Lifton came across a long forgotten

information of the mother lode variety.

He was transcribing by hand, listening with earphones to audio tapes made

on the afternoon of 11-22-63, from KRLD Radio tape reels.

The reel was an interview by Jay Hogan of Mary Moorman and Jean Hill at

3:30 pm...on KRLD RADIO excerpts, Tape 5B and 6A at NARA.

I am excerpting from the lengthy transcript several relevant parts of the

interviews. Decide for yourself the importance of this first day evidence:

HOGAN:

Q: Hello, Mrs. Moorman?

A: Yes.

Q You took the picture just after the shooting, or just before?

A: Evidently, just immediately, as the. . . Cause he was, he was looking, you know,

whenever I got the camera focused and then I snapped it in my picture, he slumped over.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: About how close were you?

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: 10 or fifteen foot, I, no more . . . Because I fall behind my camera.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: Were you up on that grassy bank there?

A: We stepped out in the street. We were right at the car.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: How many shots did you hear? You say "shots rang out".

A: Oh, oh, I don't know. I think three or four is what I, I uh, that I heard.

Q: Uh huh.

A: (continuing) that I'm sure of. Now, I don't know, there might have been more.

It just took seconds for me to realize what was happening.

Q: Yeah, uh, what as your first thought?

A: That those ARE shots. I mean, he had been HIT.

And that they're liable to hit me, cause I'm right at the car,

so I decided the place for me is to get on the ground (laughs)

Q: So huh, how did the president respond to this shot. I mean, did he just

slump suddenly?

A: He grabbed his chest, and of course, Mrs. Kennedy jumped up immediately,

and fell over him; and she said: "My God, he's been shot."

Q: Did you notice any other reactions...

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: Uh, they hesitated just for a moment [referring, I believe, to the car itself,

rather than to the behavior of any particular individual--dsl] cause I think they

were like I was, you know--'Was that a shot," or was itj ust a backfire, or

just what? And then, course, he clutched himself and they immediately sped up,

real fast, you know, like--to get OUT of there. And, uh, the police, there were

several motorcycles around him; and, uh, they stopped, and uh--one or two must

of went with him, And one ran up the hill, and a friend that was with me ran up

the hill across the street from where the shots came from.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: It (shots) seemed fairly close by?

A: Yes, uh huh.

Q And form what direction did they seem to be?

A: Oh, Lord? North. Just back there (at--laughs)

Q: Just just right at you?

A: Yes, sir.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: The sound popped, well it just sounded like, well, you know, there might

have been a firecracker right there in that car.

Q: And in your picture, uh, you uh took this picture just BEFORE the shot?

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: Evidently, at the minute (means "instant") that he, that it hit him because,

uh, we was we was looking, at me, or I mean, he was looking, you know, at the

people when my picture came out. They just slumped over, so I must have got it.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

A: Yes, uh huh. You could see he's clutched, he's bent over, and she's... and she

hadn't even gotten up in my picture, and she DID get up, STOOD UP, in the car.

(DELETED FOR BREVITY)

Q: Uh huh. And you and your friend Miss Hill, uh, were together there

at the scene. Was anybody else with you?

A No, uh uh.

Q: OK, well we sure thank you.

FROM HERE ON OUT, the interview continues with Jean Hill

This was posted here on the EF by Jack White from David Lifton Feb.07...

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I found this partial copy of an interview of Mary Moorman, in a search a few years back....

Mary stated she WAS in the street again, when she took her polaroid....in 1997......

While being interviewed by KRLD ....The interview has been and was originally, and kindly provided by Debra Conway.....

Moorman: " UH, just immediately before the presidential car came into view, we were, you know, there was just tremendous excitement. And my friend who was with me ( Jean Hill ) we were right ready to take the picture. And she's not timid. She, as the car approached us, she did hollar for the president . " Mr.President, look this way !

AND I'D STEPPED OUT OFF THE CURB INTO THE STREET TO TAKE THE PICTURE. AND SNAPPED IT IMMEDIATELY .And that evidently was the first shot .You know I could hear the sound.And.

Jones: "Now, when you heard the sound, did you immediately think 'rifle shot'..?"

Moorman: "Oh no. A firecracker, maybe. There was another one just immediately following which I still thought was a firecracker. And then I stepped back up on to the grassy area. I guess just, people were falling around us, you know.

Knowing something was wrong . I cetainly didn't know what was wrong. "

B.........

Bill :

They are all available here........

http://shopping.search.discovery.com/Disco...earchbutton.y=3

Though I am sure one could find the previous three used, perhaps at Amazon....

They have all previoulsy come to the same conclusion, one shooter,LHO, SBT, from the TSBD....none other...

Which is well known...

That is where these people are coming from....which again is well known from the past.....

Saying anything after a program is released, and out there, and that barn door has been opened, and the horse is out,

has done absolutely no good in the past.

B.....

Good grief Kathy....

Do you think Michelle is the only person with that last name? In the first place, they do not even live in CA. and in the second place, she is not even a Member here. In the third place, even if she was a member here, don't you feel she might possibly be rather humiliatrd to have it blabbed on here.....that is, whether it was actually her husband or not. She happens to be a very nice womna, and sure doesn't deserve such thoughts.

Dixie

Correct Dix..........

This is crap, and no this has nothing to do with Michelle.......

Kathy, why do you not check into your suppositions first, .?....before you ramble.....

This should be deleted......

B.........