Bernice Moore
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Posts posted by Bernice Moore
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.... film compositing is 1st year film student material... believe me, we do understand why YOU are not aware of same. Those blinders do come off, ya know!
Talk about being inept! Keep coming back Wild Bill, we CT's need ya, as well as your, er, Lone Nutter's !
Wait a minute, David ... did you not read the 'Hoax' book after it had come out and before you posted that you have seen 'NO PROOF OF ALTERATION - SOMETHING YOU HAVE SAID FOR YEARS'?????
How many times have I seen you repeat this same thing now? Fifty?
You always did have trouble understanding what "proof" & "evidence" meant didn't you?
Is there any proof that(the plaza's very own Bigfoot) Gordon Arnold was standing in the plaza filming "the parade" as he called it?
NO.
There is no proof of that whatsoever but, do you still try & convince people that he was there by using the same tired circumstantial "coincidences"(that's being generous calling them that) over & over again & even go so far as twisting the truth to make it lean towards him being there?
YES.
So then, just because there is no proof of something does not stop an intelligent man believing in that possibility & neither does it stop him wanting to discuss it in a civil environment without fear of being trolled by some repetitive say-nothing garbage.
Any Arnold fanatic with a conscience would realise this, oh wait a minute, hmm...
that's another one you have trouble with, damn.
*********
Alan Agreed:
Except with your first comment....."How many times have I seen you repeat this same thing now? Fifty?"
I think it is more like 100 or so..at least....
B.....
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Peter:
The Psychiatrist's name has never been forthcoming as far as I have heard, though someone must know...?
..Just that he was paid a million dollars..for his silence ......and the records, have not been revealed..See the 6 min mark....
TMWKK, The Final Chapter, ep.3 The Guity Men, seg.5
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=7mzZGK9tNyM&...feature=related
B.......
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Peter - thanks for the link to the Bill Turner piece.
It's fascinating that "Farewell America" seems to have had the official blessing of both De Gaulle and French intelligence.
Like "Were We Controlled?", "Farewell America" is part of a tradition of insider revelations put out through small publishers, under pseudonyms (some of which are relatively easy to uncover), containing information which is explicitly excluded from the contemporary MSM offical view.
Like all information coming from intelligence sources, some of it is top notch, some of it is rubbish, and there's always an agenda. It's critical to try to understand that agenda. However, the existence of an agenda doesn't invalidate the importance of the genuinely good inside information contained in such works.
I'm also reminded of the nearly impossible to obtain "Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?", which appeared shortly after the massacre, and was based in large part on material and access to sources provided by Congressman Leo Ryan's chief aide, Joe Holsinger.
The De Gaulle connection is interesting, as the attempt on his life came from an element in French Intelligence allied with that part of American Intel that pulled-off the Dallas [and other] hits. De Gaulle and the more progressive parts of French Intel got revenge with this book. Many think one of the shooters was a Frenchman operated by US Intel through Harvey. I'd even go so far as to say that the most recent French-U.S. tiff [over Iraq War] was connected to all this down deep. Most people have NO idea what really goes on - only what they read in the synthetic news media - which is, at best, propaganda - at its worst, circus - often both.
************
Peter:
Here is the thread that Randy began on the same subject some time ago......May 2006.....
with a few more interesting replies.........
Farewell America...now it's permissable....
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6940
B.....
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Here is a photo from the re-enactment.....showing a clipboard..
View from the rear, uniform and clipboard.....
B...
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During the past many years, Vince has referred too many times to a conspiracy,....... to believe otherwards now....imo.....
It takes only one Lone Nutter, and or Government lacky .....to gather and bring the conspiracists together,......and remind them of their common cause......
They may and do continually rattle at each other, at times, ......over their differences of opinion, which must be expected, as it does continually occur..
But when such as this, is announced......which could be considered a boot in the keester...... for all involved..........
They rally, unite and speak out, and it is always a pleasure to see....Because upon that bottom line, ...they are together in their common goal.....
I will continue to admire greatly his invaluable work on the complicity of the SS......and have spent some years now within those studies...and in email contact he has always been helpful .......and courteous.......which has been greatly appreciated.
I respect his right to his own opinion, and whatever the reason for his decision will become clear, eventually...
....So....I do want to thank him for this rally.......and reminding the all, who believe in the conspiracy of their goal......and that imo is good...
Thanks Vince....
Best B
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Good Day.... Found here....
http://untoldvalor.blogspot.com/2008/05/its-small-world.html
....a claim by an Internet blogger for his wife and a friend recently meeting a black man at the Sixth Floor Museum who claims to have been a DP witness, who also witnessed the GK gunsmoke....
<QUOTE>
Second, my wife was in Dallas, Texas for a nursing convention, and went to the Sixth Floor Museum at the Texas Book Depository, which is the site where Lee Harvey Oswald fired his shots at President Kennedy that terrible day in 1963. At the museum was a middle-aged African-American gentleman who comes to the museum from time to time to talk about the assassination. He can be seen in the photo in the red shirt, running, after JFK has been shot. He told my wife and her friend that he is absolutely certain he saw a puff of smoke from the grassy knoll at Dealy Plaza, near where he was watching the motorcade.
The man my wife talked to at the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas is seen
in red running shortly after the JFK assassination. Grassy Knoll in
background. JFK was shot roughly where this press bus moments earlier.
<END QUOTE>
....That is the BOND # 5 photo.
Best Regards in Research,
Don
Don Roberdeau
U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John," Plank Walker
Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly
T ogether
E veryone
A chieves
M ore
National Terror Alert for the United States:
"Drehm seemed to think the shots came from in FRONT OF or BESIDE the president." (my EMPHASIS)
CHARLES F. BREHM, a combat gunfire experienced, United States Army Ranger, World War II, D-day veteran, & very close Dealey Plaza attack witness, quoted only minutes after the attack, and while he was still standing within Dealey Plaza (11-22-63 Dallas Times Herald, appeared only in the fifth & final daily edition, which mis-spelled his name)
"Another eyewitness, Charles Brehm, said he was 15 feet away from the President when he was shot.
'He was waving, then the FIRST shot hit him and that awful look crossed his face.' " (my EMPHASIS)
CHARLES F. BREHM, a combat gunfire experienced, United States Army Ranger, World War II, D-day veteran, & very close Dealey Plaza attack witness (quoted to the Associated Press, 11-22-63)
***************
Hi Don:
Hope all is well.......
A few comments......and a crop enlarged.....
His wife describes the man as being middle aged...and it has been posted on his site as of May 2008.....
..The young man in the Bond photo, appears to be at least thirteen perhaps to fifteen, or ?? by his height.....that would make him approximately anywhere from 58 to 60 years old...or.......and therefore not middle aged....I do realise today that the saying is "don't trust anyone over 90"....especially by those who have turned 50...
but 60 or so, is not middle aged.....well imo...Perhaps one could just say older and quite a bit past their prime..... 
for safetys sake......Also in enlarging the Bond 5 and cropping, the youngman, does give the appearance of being white...imo......I am doubting that is him seen within
the Bond, though his information may be sound, as to what he did see.......
I have also searched the Bonds, and even though the sunlight was very bright the
skin tones of the African-Americans and Cubans see within those and other photos that day, are very apparent....
I think his identifying of self, in this photo... is doubtful...........
For now, thanks for the information....
B....
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Gabaldon requested I keep the meds where I lived, in a rural area. We moved the goods to his
El Monte, City residence just prior to the others tripping them toward No Name Key. There are
pics of some of it. (Harry Dean)
Is this them, Harry?
James
James
Yes it is them. One of Hemmings last post on the Forum stated that
these same supplies ended in Castro's hands.
Do you know the tragic {to me} details of Hemming's report?
Thanks James.
Harry
************
Hey Harry:
Here is Gerry's post.....from Oct.2005
Best B.....
Juan ARQUIAGA was NEVER Fidel's "top-ordnance man". He was later forced to go to Peru in failed attempts to manufacture his worthless sub-machine gun design. He couldn't go to Havana because during 1958 he was the one who wasted "M-26-Julio" money on Mannlicher-Carcano carbines; which were later flown into Manzanillo, Oriente on the C-46 piloted by Guillermo Verdaguer.
Later, some of these M/Carcanos were the bait to be used by Sturgis/Fiorini, Crozier & Wiecha [CIA Santiago Base] in a "stalking-horse" scheme to assassinate Fidel in Minas del Frio, Sierra Maestra.
Dumb-ass Sturgis [and the CIA officers] were later pissed off when they discovered that the "hit" was to be carried out by B-26 Bombers & F-47D "Thunderbolt" Fighter aircraft; and would have killed all of them along with Fidel & company !!
The "medical supplies" were from John Bircher doctors and dentists, and were "samples" commonly fronted to physicians to garner future purchases or R/Xs of those brand named products.
"Guy" Gabaldon was Larry Howard's buddy, gained fame from a movie about his WWII Japanese linguistic capabilities [raised by Isei, Nisei folks in East Los Angeles]; and blew off Hall at their singular meeting due to Hall's foul mouth -- even fouler than mine !!
ALL of the medical "samples" were later shipped to Cuba, for the families then desperately in need of same. Of course the Fidel folks purloined their percentage for later "sale' to the misbegotten.
While Hall had only shaken Logue's hand during 30 seconds of presence [January 1963], he was never knowledgeable of Dr. Robert Morris; that is until his FBI handlers gave him a script and sent him out to all of my contacts [better, who they then thought were my VIP contacts !!]
The Dallas FBI/CIA wanted Hall to continue on safely to Miami in order to set up the Masferrer types for later arrest.
Gerry
___________________________
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...amp;#entry42524
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FYI:
Quote Duke : ""Don't you think that it's suspicious that the head of the Dallas Diocese has always been a Catholic? Even today that's true! ""
The Catholic Church in Dallas, is not the only......There are also other Diocese within Dallas ....Some other religions use that term also...
See..
The Anglican Diocese of St. Mathews Church; Dallas Texes
http://www.stmatthias-dallas.org/
Evangical Diocese of Dallas, Texas
http://www.episcopal-dallas.org/
Quote Duke: ""And let us not forget that there is not just one Cistercian monk - St Bernard's order, he who was a great supporter of the Knights Templar ... and we all know what became of them! - but a whole monastery of them just a few miles from downtown Dallas!""
There are also Anglican Benedictines, Franciscans, Cistercians, and in the Episcopal Church in the USA, Dominicans), as well as other monastic orders.. Not only Catholic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monk
Quote Duke: ""The evidence is clear and overwhelming, and shows how secure they are in the knowledge of never having to admit their hand in the playing out of the Dealey Plaza tragedy by the simple fact that they've remained exactly as before, and if anything have gained an even higher profile!
Further proof - a la Hoover's refusal to allow DPD to attend the FBI Academy in what remained of his lifetime - is that Dallas is still but a diocese - not an archdiocese despite the millions of Catholics there. If little tiny Connecticut can have three archdiocese, why else would huge Texas be limited to just Houston? Hmmm? The pope knows. It's in the same room deep beneath St Peter's where the Fatima predictions are hidden. Wim may know someone who's seen it ... ""
A Diocese is administered by a Bishop, if there is one in residence within that area...
An Archdiocese is administered by an ArchBishop, as there is no Bishop, residing within the city..
A Diocese is higher is status, that is what Dallas is.......See
Different classes of dioceses
There are several kinds of dioceses. There are dioceses properly so called and archdioceses. The diocese is the territorial circumscription administered by a bishop; the archdiocese is placed under the jurisdiction of an archbishop. Considered as a territorial circumscription, no difference exists between them; the power of their pastors alone is different. Generally, several dioceses are grouped in an ecclesiastical province and are subject to the authority of the metropolitan archbishop. Some, however, are said to be exempt, i.e. from any archiepiscopal jurisdiction, and are placed directly under the authority of the Holy See. Such are the dioceses of the ecclesiastical province of Rome, and several other dioceses or archdioceses, especially in Italy, also in other countries. The exempt archbishops are called titular archbishops, i.e. they possess only the title of archbishop, have no suffragan bishops, and administer a diocese. The term "titular archbishop", it is to be noted, is also applied to bishops who do not administer a diocese, but who have received with the episcopal consecration a titular archbishopric. For the better understanding of this it must be remembered that archdioceses and dioceses are divided into titular and residential. The bishop of a residential see administers his diocese personally and is bound to reside in it, whereas the titular bishops have only an episcopal title; they are not bound by any obligations to the faithful of the dioceses whose titles they bear. These were formerly called bishops or archbishops in partibus infidelium, i.e. of a diocese or archdiocese fallen into the power of infidels; but since 1882 they are called titular bishops or archbishops. Such are the vicars Apostolic, auxiliary bishops, administrators Apostolic, nuncios, Apostolic delegates, etc. (see TITULAR BISHOP). Mention must also be made of the suburbicarian dioceses (diœceses suburbicariœ), i.e. the six dioceses situated in the immediate neighbourhood of Rome and each of which is administered by one of the six cardinal-bishops. These form a special class of dioceses, the titulars or occupants of which possess certain special rights and obligations (see SUBURBICARIAN DIOCESES).
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05001a.htm
B.......
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Dallas has for quite a long time been the center of interest all over the world, regarding the Kennedy Assassination. The newest theory is that the dreaded Jesuit Order was behind the assassination of President Kennedy, so after 44 years the assassination of President Kennedy has been solved. So far conclusive evidence seems in dreadfully short supply.....Maybe instead of acting offended at the unmitigated audacity of an alleged novice questioning this, [for all practical purposes] startling new assertion of how and why JFK was killed the vaunted experts might, quite frankly, put up or shut up regarding their assertions instead of casting stones at me because, I, like several BILLION other Catholics find the assertion, stupid, inane and basically the stupidest theory ever advanced.......
I have over 1,000 posts on the Kennedy Assassination, yet because I have never written a book, or article about the Kennedy Assassination, I find myself viewed with suspicion as some type of charlatan who is viewed as a potential disinformation artist; theater of the absurd indeed. To quiet my critics, I thought I would let the following speak for my credibility or lack thereof...Because a picture or a jpeg image cannot lie, unless you are a member of the Education Forum.....As a further rebuttal, I would suggest any critics view the most recent post in the Ruby Alternative Timeline re Alfred McLane
Any and all responses are encouraged, because I, contrary to some illustrious members of the Forum have nothing to hide, and I will let hell freeze over before someone intimidates me into anything.............
Have a Nice Day
Hi Robert :
The Jesuits....????? The Church of Scientology ....Whatever happened to.....The Right Wing ? The John Birch Society ?? Castro......??? The Russians.????
The Driver SS Greer ????? Oops and I almost forgot, Jackie herself...??????.....as well as the many others, that right now ,do not come to mind........What have I been missing........Apparently nothing......
Just carry on, carrying on.....as they say.........and let none stand in your way.....
From one of the several Billion to another.......
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Note I am not asking “Is the Z film altered?” I’m asking “If they needed to alter a ‘problem’ film – any film - and could do…would they?”
I personally cannot see anyone trying to alter the Zapruder film before frames were going into print. The film was shot with Kodachrome II film that according to CTs Robert Groden ... its properties could not have allowed someone to merely make prints and put them back into the film without color shifts and sharpness irregularities being present.
Another problem for an alteration would be to risk one of the actual witnesses spotting the change as being something that did not match what they witnessed at the time of the assassination. There also would have been the problem that the Feds did not know who all was filming at the time of the shooting and to keep an alteration hidden ... it would had to have been done to each and every assassination film that was running at the time of the shooting.
As far as frames being reversed ... that didn't occur to the actual film, but rather to the prints placed into the 26 volumes of the WCR.
Bill
Another problem for an alteration would be to risk one of the actual witnesses spotting the change as being something that did not match what they witnessed at the time of the assassination
Didn't Jean Hill say she wasn't stood where the film shows her to be standing? But that problem is chicken feed. A good old fashioned car crash or suicide normally sorts that kind of trifling problem.
A much worse scenario surely would be definitive PROOF of a conspiracy catured on film! If you were a conspirator which would you risk? A problem witness or 200 or definitive proof of your culpability?
But in fairness Bill you still haven't addressed my question. I asked would they do it if they could? Not DID they.
*************
Bernie :
You may be referring to this information by Mary re where she and Jean were.......from an previous post..
Jean Hill also stated in a interview, that she did not see the Zapruder film till 15 years later..
FYI.....
B...
Title: David Lifton strikes paydirt
Post by: jack white on February 16, 2007, 12:22 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yesterday while reviewing some transcribed old notes taken many years ago
at the National Archives, David Lifton came across a long forgotten
information of the mother lode variety.
He was transcribing by hand, listening with earphones to audio tapes made
on the afternoon of 11-22-63, from KRLD Radio tape reels.
The reel was an interview by Jay Hogan of Mary Moorman and Jean Hill at
3:30 pm...on KRLD RADIO excerpts, Tape 5B and 6A at NARA.
I am excerpting from the lengthy transcript several relevant parts of the
interviews. Decide for yourself the importance of this first day evidence:
HOGAN:
Q: Hello, Mrs. Moorman?
A: Yes.
Q You took the picture just after the shooting, or just before?
A: Evidently, just immediately, as the. . . Cause he was, he was looking, you know,
whenever I got the camera focused and then I snapped it in my picture, he slumped over.
(DELETED FOR BREVITY)
Q: About how close were you?
(DELETED FOR BREVITY)
A: 10 or fifteen foot, I, no more . . . Because I fall behind my camera.
(DELETED FOR BREVITY)
Q: Were you up on that grassy bank there?
A: We stepped out in the street. We were right at the car
(DELETED FOR BREVITY)
Q: How many shots did you hear? You say "shots rang out".
A: Oh, oh, I don't know. I think three or four is what I, I uh, that I heard.
Q: Uh huh.A: (continuing) that I'm sure of. Now, I don't know, there might have been more.
It just took seconds for me to realize what was happening.
Q: Yeah, uh, what as your first thought?
A: That those ARE shots. I mean, he had been HIT.
And that they're liable to hit me, cause I'm right at the car,
so I decided the place for me is to get on the ground (laughs)
Q: So huh, how did the president respond to this shot. I mean, did he just
slump suddenly?
A: He grabbed his chest, and of course, Mrs. Kennedy jumped up immediately,
and fell over him; and she said: "My God, he's been shot."
Q: Did you notice any other reactions...
(DELETED FOR BREVITY)
A: Uh, they hesitated just for a moment [referring, I believe, to the car itself,
rather than to the behavior of any particular individual--dsl] cause I think they
were like I was, you know--'Was that a shot," or was itj ust a backfire, or
just what? And then, course, he clutched himself and they immediately sped up,
real fast, you know, like--to get OUT of there. And, uh, the police, there were
several motorcycles around him; and, uh, they stopped, and uh--one or two must
of went with him, And one ran up the hill, and a friend that was with me ran up
the hill across the street from where the shots came from.
(DELETED FOR BREVITY)
Q: It (shots) seemed fairly close by?
A: Yes, uh huh.
Q And form what direction did they seem to be?
A: Oh, Lord? North. Just back there (at--laughs)
Q: Just just right at you?
A: Yes, sir.
(DELETED FOR BREVITY)
A: The sound popped, well it just sounded like, well, you know, there might
have been a firecracker right there in that car.
Q: And in your picture, uh, you uh took this picture just BEFORE the shot?
(DELETED FOR BREVITY)
A: Evidently, at the minute (means "instant") that he, that it hit him because,
uh, we was we was looking, at me, or I mean, he was looking, you know, at the
people when my picture came out. They just slumped over, so I must have got it.
(DELETED FOR BREVITY)
A: Yes, uh huh. You could see he's clutched, he's bent over, and she's... and she
hadn't even gotten up in my picture, and she DID get up, STOOD UP, in the car.
(DELETED FOR BREVITY)
Q: Uh huh. And you and your friend Miss Hill, uh, were together there
at the scene. Was anybody else with you?
A No, uh uh.
Q: OK, well we sure thank you.
FROM HERE ON OUT, the interview continues with Jean Hill
Q: (continuing)
And also, here, we do have Miss Hill. Miss Hill, you were an
eyewitness, also?
A: Yes, I was . I suppose we were the people closest to the
President's car at the time.
Q: Uh, that as about 10 or fifteen feet, you'd say?
A: Not anymore than that at all.
Q: Uh huh. You were both looking right at the presidential car, then?
A: Yes, we were looking right at the President. We were looking at his face.
As Mary took the picture, I was looking at him. And he grabbed his hands across
his ch-when two shots rang out. He grabbed his hands across his chest. I have
never seen anyone killed, or in pain before like that but there was this odd
look came across his face, and he pitched forward onto Jackie's lap.
DSL NOTE: I believe this must mean: "to the side onto Jackie's lap" --because Jackie was
to the left of JFK, not in front of JFK. In my interview of the Newman's, circa 1971, in
person, and on tape, they talk of JFK falling to the side, or being thrust towards Jackie.
A: And uh, she immediately, we were close enough to even hear her, and
everything, and she fell across him and says "My God, he's been shot."
Q: ..... Did you notice particularly any of the other people around? At the time (she cuts in)
A: There was NO one around us on our side of the street. We had planned it that way;
we wanted to be down there by ourselves; that’s the reason we had gotten almost
to the underpass, so we’d be completely in the clear.
Q: Any other reactions form the other people in the motorcae, that you recall?
A: The motorcade was stunned after the first two shots, and it came to a momentary halt,
and about that time 4 more uh, 3 to 4 more shots again rang out, and I guess it just didn't
register with me. Mary was uh had gotten down on the ground and was pulling at my leg,
saying "Get , get down, they're shooting, get down, they're shooting; and I didn't even
realize it. And I just kept sitting there looking. And uh uh just about that time, well,
of course, some of the motorcycles pulled away. And some of them pulled over to the side
and started running up the bank; there's a hill on the other side (she is interrupted)
Q: Yes, Maam.
A: And the shots came from there. After they were momentarily stopped--after the
first two shots--THEN they sped away REAL quickly.
(DELETED FOR BREVITY)
Q: Well, thank you Miss Hill, and also Miss Moorman, for speaking with us about this.
A. Thankyou.
ANNOUNCER: That's two eyewitnesses to the murdered president, who saw on his face the
anguish of his very last hour alive. Before we go back to CBS, here again are some
announcements of special local importance.
TO SUMMARIZE:
MOORMAN
1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: 10 or fifteen foot, I, no more
2. WHERE WERE YOU: We stepped out in the street
3. HOW MANY SHOTS: three or four ... there might have been more.
4. WHAT DID MRS. KENNEDY DO: Mrs. Kennedy jumped up immediately, and fell over him;
and she said: "My God, he's been shot."
5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO: they hesitated just for a moment...and they immediately sped up
6. WHAT DID THE MOTORCYCLES DO: they stopped
7. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: Oh, Lord? North.
8. WHAT DID YOUR PHOTO SHOW MRS. K DOING: he's bent over, and she's... and she
hadn't even gotten up in my picture, and she DID get up, STOOD UP, in the car.
HILL:
1. HOW CLOSE TO CAR: about 10 or fifteen feet...not anymore than that at all.
2. WHAT DID THE PRESIDENT DO: he pitched forward onto Jackie's lap.
3. WHAT DID MRS. K DO: she fell across him and says "My God, he's been shot."
4. WERE THERE OTHER PEOPLE AROUND YOU: There was NO one around us on our side of the street
5. WHAT DID THE LIMO DO:The motorcade was stunned after the first two shots, and it came
to a momentary halt. After they were momentarily stopped--after the first two shots--THEN
they sped away REAL quickly.
6. WHERE DID THE SHOTS COME FROM: there's a hill on the other side...and the shots came
from there.
THIS IS FIRST DAY TESTIMONY FROM THE TWO CLOSEST WITNESSES.
Jack
B......
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Mike::
Here is some information on The Orville Nix Film:
A Snip here......a snip there.....and then a disappearance......
FYI........
B......
A Video titled "Rush To Judgment.".Begins with the date.. Feb. 1964) a 1966 film documentary about the John F Kennedy Assassination that was directed by Emile de Antonio and hosted by Mark Lane. It is a black and white film, 122 minutes long. It has also been shown on BBC TV since 1967 as part of the much longer (300 minutes) film entitled "The Death of Kennedy".
*************************
Orville Nix Verbatim from the Video....
Mark Lane: "Mr.Nix .Where were you on November 22nd ?.."
Orville Nix: "I was standing on the corner of Main and Houston "..(Sts).
Mark Lane: "And did you take any pictures of the Presidental Limousine as it went through Dealey Plaza ?.."
Orville Nix: "Yes, I had taken pictures before and after --before and during the assassination "..
Mark Lane: "And you know of course that your pictures were used by the Government to determine where the limousine was when some of the shots were fired ?"..
Orville Nix: "Yes "..
Mark Lane:"And did you deliver a copy of your film to the Federal Government ?"..
Orville Nix:"Yes, I delivered a copy of my film to the Federal Government about December 1st "..
Mark Lane:"About a little over a week after the assassination ?"..
Orville Nix:"Yes, my film got lost in the processing plant !"..
Mark Lane: "Where is the original film ?"..
Orville Nix: "The original film --uh--belonged to United Press International .The Government has a duplicate copy "..
Mark Lane: " Where is that copy ?"..
Orville Nix: " In the Archives"..
Mark Lane:"And is that the duplicate copy which was used by the Warren Commission determining along with other films, the Muchmore film and the Zapruder film where the Presidential limousine was when some of the shots were fired ?"..
Orville Nix: "I would say so"..
Mark Lane: "Well you now have a copy, of your film which you were kind enough to show to us this afternoon .Is that copy the same as the original that you gave to the FBI on December 1st ?"..
Orville Nix: " I would say, No--- there is some films maybe missing---some --uh--frames--uh--some of the frames were ruined "..
Mark Lane :"Does the film which you have at the present time ,have the same number of frames as the film that you delivered to the FBI on December 1st ?"..
Orville Nix: "--uh--I would say No--but its' cause of loosing maybe a --uh--frame --uh--here and there "..
Mark Lane :" At the time of the shots were fired ,did you look at the Book Depository building ?"..
Orville Nix :" No"..
Mark Lane : " Did you think ,at that time ,that the shots came from the Book Depository ?"..
Orville Nix : "No, I thought it came from a fence --uh--between the Book Depository and the Railroad Track"..
Mark Lane:"--uh--Did anyone else ,who you know, that you've spoken with ,also believe that the shots came from there "..
Orville Nix: " Most everyone thought it came from the fence behind the Book Depository "..
Mark Lane :"Did you have the occasion to speak with Forrest Sorrels ---who is of course a friend of yours ,and is the Secret Service agent in charge of Dallas that day ?"..
Orville Nix:" Yes, I did "..
Mark Lane : "Did he tell you where the thought the shots came from ?"..
Orville Nix : " He thought they came from the same place"..
Mark Lane : " Which is ?"..
Orville Nix: "Behind the fence"..
Mark Lane : " At the present time where do you believe the shots came from ?"..
Orville Nix : " Well they came from the Book Depository because there's proof it did come from there "..
Mark Lane :" I see---and this you've read in Newspapers and you've read the Report ?"..
Orville Nix :" Yes,--er-- I believe the Warren Report"..
*****************************************end of his interview on tape****
Orville Nix:
JFK: How the Media Assassinated the Real Story...
From Real History Archives
""But perhaps nothing revealed CBS's prejudice in the series more tellingly than the network's treatment of Orville Nix, a man who was wielding a movie camera across from the grassy knoll on that fateful day. Nix, who had worked for the General Service Administration as an air conditioning repairman in the Dallas Secret Service building, sold his footage to UPI for $5000 in 1963. But, according to his granddaughter Gayle Nix Jackson, the film only brought him heartache.
"The FBI had issued a dictum to all of Dallas's film labs that any assassination photos had to be turned over to the FBI immediately," recalls Gayle Jackson. "The lab called my granddad first and, like the good American he was, he rushed it to the FBI." Nix had to turn his camera over to the FBI as well. "They took the camera for five months. They said they needed to analyze it. They returned it in pieces," recalls Jackson.
In 1967 Nix dutifully turned out for the CBS re-creation. Recalls his granddaughter: "His turn came to reenact what he saw. They said, 'Mr.Nix. where did the shots come from?' He said, `From over there on that grassy knoll behind the picket fence.' Then it would be, `Cut!' We went through this six or seven times and each time it was, `Cut!' And then a producer stepped forward and said, `Orville where did the Warren Commission say the shots came from?' My granddad said, `Well, the Texas Book Depository.' The producer said, `That's what you need to say.'" CBS producer Bernard Birnbaum, who worked on the documentary, denies the exchange. "We never tried to put any words in anybody's mouth, absolutely not," he told the "Voice." Birnbaum says CBS did give Warren Commission critics air time and cites a segment of the documentary where another eyewitness contends shots came from the grassy knoll. "We were looking to disprove everything," he insists.
According to Jackson, her grandfather also told CBS that there were four shots fired during the assassination, an observation subsequently endorsed by the House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1975, based on controversial acoustical evidence. But what did the CBS viewing audience hear from Nix? "Bang, bang, bang," as if to suggest that Nix also subscribed to the three-bang theory.
After being browbeaten by CBS, Orville Nix, a normally mild-mannered man, became furious. "He was hitting the steering wheel on the ride back home saying, `Why are they trying to make me feel like I am insane?'" Jackson recalls. She remembers that a year or so later, when District Attorney Jim Garrison called for Nix to testify, her grandfather wouldn't talk. He was afraid for his life.
How many other witnesses experienced the Orville you-never-heard/saw-that phenomenon we will never know. But one other was Kenny O'Donnell, a confidant and adviser to JFK who was in the motorcade. In Tip O'Neill's book Man of The House, O'Neill describes a conversation with O'Donnell, who told him he was sure that two shots had come from the fence behind the grassy knoll. O'Neill said to O'Donnell, "That's not what you told the Warren Commission." O'Donnell responded, "You're right, I told the FBI what I had heard, but they said it couldn't have happened that way and that I must have been imagining things. So I testified the way they wanted me to. I just didn't want to stir up any more pain and trouble for the family."
Since Orville Nix's death in 1988, his granddaughter, a former loss-prevention executive, has been waging a one-woman war to get the original film back from UPI. She wants it analyzed to reveal the details that a copy does not provide. "You know my granddad believed in the Texas handshake, and that is how he made his deal with UPI." According to Jackson, the rights to the film were to revert to Nix's estate in 1988. After initially getting a green light from UPI for the return of the film, the then-media giant informed her that the attorney that granted her request was "no longer with the company." She was told to wait until 1991. Then on June 4, 1991, came a note from UPI's general counsel, Frank Kane. "UPI agrees that, in accordance with the oral agreement . . . UPI hereby releases all rights over the Nix Film to Mr. Nix's heirs and assigns." There was only one problem. UPI no longer had the film. Jackson received a letter saying the film had gone to the Warren Commission and was supposedly housed in the National Archives. With the Warren Commission out of business, she contacted the National Archives only to learn that the original was not there either.
The last official place the film was said to have been was in the House Select Committee on Assassinations files. That Committee was convened in 1975 to investigate the assassinations of John Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, and Martin Luther King. The chief counsel for the HSCA, G. Robert Blakey, who has a penchant for gagging his staff via mandatory secrecy oaths, came clean with Nix's granddaughter about the fate of the family heirloom, says Jackson. "Blakey's the only one who takes full responsibility for the loss of the film because it was his committee that was supposed to assure that all evidence was returned to the rightful owner," Jackson says. So much for posterity's view of the grassy knoll on November 22, 1963. A former HSCA staff member, Gaeton Fonzi, recalls that back at the time of the hearings the staff "heard rumors that Blakey planned to classify all of the committee files, but we didn't believe them because that would be too reminiscent of what the Warren Commission had done." In fact many of the files were classified and this same man, Blakey, is the one who has been recently assigned to help draft legislation about what will be released from the original Kennedy assassination files. ""
http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v1n2/...assination.html
***************************************
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Steve:
For your interest.......
Quote:""David is saying NO PHOTOGRAPHS ARE KNOWN WHICH PROVIDE POSITIVE IDENTIFICATION
OF ANY PEOPLE ON THE PEDESTAL. Identifications are all based on assumptions of the verity
of the official story. Right, David?""
Jack
******************
This below is Jack White's "The Zapruder Waltz"....
As we see in Bronson, which shows Marilyn Sitzman to be wearing a dark dress, she was in reality wearing a light beige coloured one....also seen in many other photos from that day........
........It is impossible to see within any of these frames who exactly is on the pedestal....there is no clarity..........and yet, in a re-enactment Robert Groden is ,with much more......as well as other such photos that are available.......from studies taken later....
I have over time read the explanations, many times, of the photographers having the wrong settings, the wrong type of film, the excitement of the moments , the rush etc etc......and so on and so forth, which seem in the end to me, to be just more coincidences, when are there simply too many....within all of the assassination scenario...
When studied, the heights of the two people, as seen on the pedestal, also seem to vary....at times by what appears to be several inches, but also I have read the, he must have crouched down, bent etc etc...... whatever....
......Marilyn was a tall girl, Zapruder his son has stated I believe, was 5' 10"...Marilyn was approximately the same....and or somewhat taller if as some say, she had on high heels.....that day.....which would have added another 2 inches or so....
Also if one notes, in Bronson, Marilyn's, apparently it is called her right leg and foot, ? but when studied her right leg and foot appear to be, what?? no foot, with a fat widening leg ??
There were reports from a couple of witnesses that come to mind, off hand........of people seen in this area and with cameras.....two that come to mind are the Associated Press Photographer, James Altgens seen on the south side of Elm, from where he took his photographs, opposite the pedestal and also Emmett Hudson....the Dealey Plaza, groundskeeper....who was standing on the steps, to the left ......of the pedestal...
Is it possible that Marilyn Sitzman had a camera ?, well that is just as possible as Gordon Arnold having one........ imo.......as seen within the studies, what could be Arnold, a soldier holding a camera to his eye, filming from the top of the steps, in front of the fence........
........but then again he cannot bee seen clearly either nor identified.....with any real clarity.....soooooooooo...
B........
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Bill:
May I ask...Do you believe in any alterations..
Thanks....
B.....
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Mike:
Quote : ""The very first episode of that CBS report aired the day I was born."".......well you Spring chicken , you.....
Whatever else Rowland had to say, was clipped by CBS.....and they went on to Carolyn Walther ( never called
by the W/C......
who mentioned two men seen in the TSBD....she thought a window about even with the top of the tree...
fourth or fifth......
She recalled what to her appeared to be a shorter than a rifle weapon.....They then clip.....to
Amos Euins, and his recall of seeing what he had thought a pipe....sticking out about a foot, .....about on the sixth floor....
Then of course they went to Howard Brennan....who had become an embarassement to the W/C ...at first being hailed
as their best eye witness....yada.....and then proven to be fos.........
Why CBS used him, I have no idea, but then again, they used anyone and everything they could for that
series to prove the W/C correct....note how they cut, the witnesses they did speak to.........
Shame on Croncite......for putting his stamp of approval on all.....He was more intelligent than what he appeared
to make himself out to be in that particular series.....imo......
Hey Peter:
There were many open windows as seen in Moorman 3.....I believe it is......as well you are aware...but for posterities sake, let's have
another gander, shall we.....
As seen normal photo as well as inverted , as sometimes whatever shows up clearer......
Best fellas, your welcome.....
B......
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John,
One of the first things that struck me in Rowland's Testimony is the fact that it would be difficult to judge the power of the weapon, by the size of the scope.
If I recall correctly they interviewed Rowland in the 67 cbs report. I have no idea why, but the way Rowland describes what he saw in that report, struck me as though Rowland may have been talking about a spotting scope. I believe he actually said that the scope was large in relation to the rifle.
Best,
Mike
Mike : From the CBS Special W/C Report....67-8...Arnold Rowland......
"" Quote : Eddie Barker:
Dan ( Rather).....Arnold Rowland was here with his wife on Houston Street in the crowd waiting for the motorcade. A few minutes before it arrived, Rowland told the Warren Commission , he noticed an elderly Negro man up in the window where you are now , where Oswald is suppose to have fired from . But he told the Commission , and a few days ago repeated his story for us here, of seeing a gunman lurking in another window entirely...
Rowland : And I was just lookin' around and we noticed a man up in the window and I remarked to my wife, tried to point him out . And remarked that he must be a security guard or s Secret Service agent .
Barker: So, the window, then, that you are referring to is on the opposite end of the building from where the main entrance to the building is ?.
Rowland : Yes, it is on the other side of the building . And he had a rifle. It looked like a high-powered rifle because it had a scope which looked, in relation to the size of the rifle. to be a big scope........""
...Below Barbara & Arnold Rowland on Houston Street.....during the motorcade......
B....... :
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Just a few on the Warren Commission, alias, the W/C ( Water Closet)....
Including a page of a letter sent to Janet Reno, from former Senator Richard Schweiker......on what he thought of the W/C....
The newspaper article is of course Tongue in Cheek.....
B........
Including a page of a letter sent to Janet Reno, from former Senator Richard Schweiker......on what he thought of the W/C....
It would be assumed that you are aware that the "page of a letter" is in fact a page of a letter sent by myself, in which I quoted Senator Schweiker's comments regarding the WC.
P.S. It is also a "roadmap" to understanding the manipulations of Specter & Company.
Well, Tom you can assume all you care to, ........No I did not know it was"" in fact a page of a letter sent by ( you ) myself, in which I quoted Senator Schweiker's comments regarding the WC."" .......
But they are Senator Schweiker's comments....Many are greatly aware of the dishonest Specter's manipulations.....
So a cheers for you, for sending such letter.......I hope you feel better now that is all straightened out.....
Ta......B.....
No I did not know it was"" in fact a page of a letter sent by ( you )
Well, hopefully, now you are aware of it.
What you provided represents page#3 of one of the multitudes of correspondences to the attention of the Attorney General, Janet Reno, and was in response to a letter which I received from the Violent Crimes Section of the FBI who had been provided with various aspects of the information.
Attached is Page#1 of this letter, and I will follow up with the other pages as well.
As well as answer Ron's questions.
Tom
P.S. Having lived in St. Anne, Manitoba; Geraldton, Ontario, as well as Regina, Saskatchewan; to include two winters on the North Slope of Alaska, I alway take into consideration the "numbing" effect of the cold on one's thought process prior to passing judgement on simple human error.
And, just as us "Southern Boys" are somewhat and sometimes afflicted with the "Dumb A**", caused by the heat and humidity, the "frozen brain" syndrone demonstrates little difference in affliction of the thought process.
****************************************************************
Hey, Purv and Bean! Nice to see you discussing some documents, here.
"P.S. Having lived in St. Anne, Manitoba; Geraldton, Ontario, as well as Regina, Saskatchewan; to include two winters on the North Slope of Alaska, I alway take into consideration the "numbing" effect of the cold on one's thought process prior to passing judgement on simple human error.
And, just as us "Southern Boys" are somewhat and sometimes afflicted with the "Dumb A**", caused by the heat and humidity, the "frozen brain" syndrone demonstrates little difference in affliction of the thought process."
And, speaking of climactic changes inherent to certain parallels located in the northern hemisphere, as well as, its effects on the body's central nervous system.
I've come to know the frozen aspect, common to the northernmost territories as "numbing of the skull syndrome," [Man! That used to leave me with such a pain right between my eyes walking against the wind towards the Hudson River, in the dead of winter, when I lived back in NY].
Then, there's the condition afflicting the southernmost territories commonly referred to as "refried brains syndrome." [Which sometimes leaves me in a "Watt's Riots" mode when the heat gets too intense.] FWIW
Love ya,
Ter
Well. Hi Ter:
It could be someone does not know their Geography nor climates, as well as one thinks....and how anyone thinks the numbing effect may effect one
when they cannot
adventure out in the bitter ,well, some talk about nothings they know nothing about...... same old, but they must get that last word in...
It has been Spring for some time, aw but that must be that "refried brains syndrome."you mention and that is a good one......isn't that the one that
lingers...endlessly .?
I thought this thread had taken a turn for the better and was referring to the W/C, and just might carry on with further info.....as it was Senator Schweiker's comments that were important........
..but I guess not....some must toot...there is that darn AAM syndrome again.......it seems ....trying to endlessly end up on top.....shame that....and it will continue.....I have no doubt......
Good to see you posting...
B....
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Marilyn Sitzman in her own words.....
On "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" series......re the Zapruder film .......Marilyn Sitzman states...
Quote
" He started filming about .....oh....just before they came around the corner......and then we heard what to me sounded like two firecrackers...it was starting to get a little confusing because you could see things happening in the car..." and on.....So she does in her own Quotable words, state that he did start to film the motorcade as they just started to turn the corner....
On the video "Image of an Assassination: Another Look at the Zapruder Film " Marilyn says.
Quote...
"when they started making their first turn, turning into the street, he said, o.k. here we go, or something to that effect ".
...so where is the rest of the film...??
B....
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Just a few on the Warren Commission, alias, the W/C ( Water Closet)....
Including a page of a letter sent to Janet Reno, from former Senator Richard Schweiker......on what he thought of the W/C....
The newspaper article is of course Tongue in Cheek.....
B........
Including a page of a letter sent to Janet Reno, from former Senator Richard Schweiker......on what he thought of the W/C....
It would be assumed that you are aware that the "page of a letter" is in fact a page of a letter sent by myself, in which I quoted Senator Schweiker's comments regarding the WC.
P.S. It is also a "roadmap" to understanding the manipulations of Specter & Company.
Well, Tom you can assume all you care to, ........No I did not know it was"" in fact a page of a letter sent by ( you ) myself, in which I quoted Senator Schweiker's comments regarding the WC."" .......
But they are Senator Schweiker's comments....Many are greatly aware of the dishonest Specter's manipulations.....
So a cheers for you, for sending such letter.......I hope you feel better now that is all straightened out.....
Ta......B.....
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Just a few on the Warren Commission, alias, the W/C ( Water Closet)....
Including a page of a letter sent to Janet Reno, from former Senator Richard Schweiker......on what he thought of the W/C....
The newspaper article is of course Tongue in Cheek.....
B........
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Deleted.....
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I think a thread limited to noting such errors may be useful amd I would invite anyone knowing of any errors to post them here.
A good thread Tim, only trouble is I think there have been so many errors writen by BOTH sides that you would have to dedicate a whole forum rather than just a thread. This is one I stumbled on a few days ago. Sylvia Meagher is writing about an affidavit giving by Charles Givens (a TSBD employee) : "Within an hour or two, Givens was escorted to the police headquarters, where he was questioned and where he executed an affidavit stating that he had left the sixth floor at about 11:30 a.m., had gone to the washroom, at noon had taken his lunch period, had gone to a parking lot to visit with a friend employed there (CE 2003, page 27)." (unquote). Yet when I checked the affidavit for myself I found Meagher's time of "11.30" to be totaly inaccurate it was in fact 11.50:
AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS
BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Charles Douglas Givens c/m/37, 2511 Carpenter, RI2 4670 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:
I work for the Texas School Book Depository, 411 Elm Street. I worked up on the 6th floor today until about 11:50 am. Then I went downstairs and into the bathroom. At twelve o'clock I took my lunch period. I went to the parking lot at Record and Elm street. I have a friend who works at the parking lot. We walked up to Main and Record when the President passed by. We then walked back to the parking lot after the President had passed by. We had just got back to the lot when we heard the shooting. I think I heard three shots. I did not see anyone in the building that was not supposed to be there this morning.
/s/ Charles Douglas Givens
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22 DAY OF November A.D. 1963
/s/ Mary Rattan
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas (unquote)
Not a small mistake, the 20 minute time difference is crucial. And I use the word "mistake" with a great deal of generosity. Denis.
Hi Denis :
Re Givens.........In his FBI statement.....He stated 11.30A.M.....
But you will not find that FBI report in the W/C, oops they forgot to include it as with so much more....
It was then given as 11.50.AM...think....Dallas' Finest.....
B.......
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Denis & Pat:
You both need to take this some further.....
In the case of Charles Givens ............I realize you both totally ignored what I had posted, for you..... and went on only to reply to each other ........So excuse me if I butt in here again, one more time, with further information, and then leave you to your own.... perhaps this will help clarify the information for you both, you may consider the following....The rest of the story...
In the case of Charles Givens, in trying to put LHO on the Sixth floor, in time to shoot the President....David Belin, whom later on was decribed by some of his co-workers on the W/C as , his behaviour being both shameful and unethical.....knowingly suborned perjured testimony....from this totally unreliable witness and handyman.....
Givens had a police record, and was both known to Dallas police and by the FBI to be susceptible to bribery...........He first told the FBI that he had last seen Oswald on the FIRST Floor of the
Depository..35 minutes before the Assassination ......Only later did he change his story, that he had last seen LHO on theSixth Floor .....
Belin was aware of the FBI's original Givens statement , that he had before him......and knew of the rumour that he had revised his testimony....But........He did not cross examine Givens,.... nor did he refer to such.........but simply put the second version into the official record....
This would be the ONLY "evidence" placing LHO on that Sixth floor....
Now just to make it positive that no researcher, critic, what have you....was able to get ahold of this gem, Belin did not include it within the Appendix to the W/R..............He sent it directly to the classified files
of the National Archives......But......Ta Da.......a sharp eyed Sylvia Meagher accidently discovered it in 1968....
This also then challenged the statement that none of the employees was known to have seen LHO until after the shooting...
For instance Eddie Piper...testified in his affidavit and again to the W/C.....that he saw and spoke to Oswald " just at twelve o'clock, down on the first floor".....
William Shelley testified also that he saw LHO when he," came down to eat lunch about Ten to Twelve".
The one person who should have seen LHO after 11.55AM ,......... if Givens story was true, was Bonnie Ray Williams, who returned to the 6th floor at Twelve O'clock to eat his lunch......but he saw neither Oswald nor Givens........this is just another....wee part of the LHO is guilty cut and dried...scenario.....and the dishonety of the W/C....and futher investigations....
B......
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I think a thread limited to noting such errors may be useful amd I would invite anyone knowing of any errors to post them here.
A good thread Tim, only trouble is I think there have been so many errors writen by BOTH sides that you would have to dedicate a whole forum rather than just a thread. This is one I stumbled on a few days ago. Sylvia Meagher is writing about an affidavit giving by Charles Givens (a TSBD employee) : "Within an hour or two, Givens was escorted to the police headquarters, where he was questioned and where he executed an affidavit stating that he had left the sixth floor at about 11:30 a.m., had gone to the washroom, at noon had taken his lunch period, had gone to a parking lot to visit with a friend employed there (CE 2003, page 27)." (unquote). Yet when I checked the affidavit for myself I found Meagher's time of "11.30" to be totaly inaccurate it was in fact 11.50:
AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS
BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Charles Douglas Givens c/m/37, 2511 Carpenter, RI2 4670 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:
I work for the Texas School Book Depository, 411 Elm Street. I worked up on the 6th floor today until about 11:50 am. Then I went downstairs and into the bathroom. At twelve o'clock I took my lunch period. I went to the parking lot at Record and Elm street. I have a friend who works at the parking lot. We walked up to Main and Record when the President passed by. We then walked back to the parking lot after the President had passed by. We had just got back to the lot when we heard the shooting. I think I heard three shots. I did not see anyone in the building that was not supposed to be there this morning.
/s/ Charles Douglas Givens
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22 DAY OF November A.D. 1963
/s/ Mary Rattan
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas (unquote)
Not a small mistake, the 20 minute time difference is crucial. And I use the word "mistake" with a great deal of generosity. Denis.
Hi Denis :
Re Givens.........In his FBI statement.....He stated 11.30A.M.....
But you will not find that FBI report in the W/C, oops they forgot to include it as with so much more....
It was then given as 11.50.AM...think....Dallas' Finest.....
B.......
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Rogers Charles:
According to his, medical flight certificate ..he was 5'5" tall..145 lbs...Receding Brown hair..
and blue eyes...slight build....
According to The Continuing Enquiry....the tall tramp and Charles Harrelson were approx..6' 1'..
B......
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THE POSNER REPORT: A Study In Propaganda: One Hundred Errors in Gerald Posner's Case Closed:
Lee Harvey Oswald and the Assassination of JFK
by David Starks
Copyright 1997, Imagi-Vision, Inc.
http://www.assassinationweb.com/ecc.htm
B.......
but 60 or so, is not middle aged.....well imo...Perhaps one could just say older and quite a bit past their prime..... 
for safetys sake......
The paper sample taken from the building by the DPD
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by Bernice Moore
Hi Pat:
A quick reply...
There are two reports......I guess technically three.....
""In 1980, researcher Gary Shaw discovered what appeared to be another copy of the FBI report while examining documents in the National Archives. However, the newly discovered version stated that the paper sack did NOT have the same observable characteristics as the test sample:""
Below the reports and Don Roberdeau's info.....
See......
The Paper Sack
http://jfkresearch.freehomepage.com/papersac.htm
Did you ever come across that Golz article.......??
Pat :""I'm sorry that I started this thread with a faulty comparison, but it is proving most interesting. Gary Mack sent me an e-mail saying that Vincent Drain was contacted by Earl Golz when Gary Shaw first found the second document. He says that Drain ADMITTED writing the document, but claimed he'd written two different documents while waiting for the test results, one claiming the bag matched and one claiming it didn't. He told Golz that he thought he destroyed the one found in the Archives, after the results came in.
I think there's a problem with this excuse. Cadigan tested the bag on the 23rd. The results were furnished on the 23rd. Drain's report on the evidence was prepared on the 26th. Bernice, or Jack, what is the date on the bottom of this report? At the top it says 11-30 but that could be the date it was typed up. What is the date at the bottom? If it was written up after the 23rd it proves Drain to be inaccurate in his recollection to Golz, and possibly a xxxx.
Does anyone have the Golz article? Drain's exact words could be helpful.""
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...t=0#entry113961
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