Bernice Moore

Peter:

B......

The Chuckle Brothers have been conferring. Amnesia and obfuscation resulted:

Also, it is quite possible that the date of the Russian TV film appearance is in error or the reporter's characterization of it weeks later is simply wrong.

As Mack well knows - it's been on this forum before at least once - Tass stated flat out that Soviet viewers had been shown footage of the actual shooting, and contemporaneous Foreign Office files, inspected years later, confirmed it. Links to both:

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v1n2/worldreaction.html

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/history/wc_pe...lmson%20TV.html

I note with a smirk that one G. Mack, no less, assured Ian Griggs, the man responsible for the fine piece of research at the other end of the first link above, that "the Muchmore Film had been shown on a New York TV station, and probably others, on the 25th. He added that since the film was owned by UPI, it was likely to have been distributed to other news outlets and so it was quite possible that the film shown on Soviet TV was Marie Muchmore’s footage."

Awesome.

Paul

*****************

I came across this document it maybe of some use to you..........

B......

Michael....

FWIW......

ONE "LITTLE THING" THAT THE ASSASSINATION

RECORDS REVIEW BOARD OVERLOOKED

On May 26, 1992, 7 months before his death, Certified Legal Investigator Joe West sought and received special permission from the funeral home that embalmed John F. Kennedy for West to conduct a telephone interview with Thomas Evan Robinson, one of the JFK embalmers. The permission process was lengthy and the interview almost didn't transpire.

Below are the handwritten notes of the May 26, 1992 conversation with Mr. Robinson, found in Joe West's Investigator's Notebook following West's death in 1993.

A transcription of the page follows the original in case readers have difficulty reading Mr. West's handwriting.

Transcription

Thomas Evan Robinson

Personal contact info deleted to protect Mr. Robinson's privacy

May 26, 1992 (Phone)

Wounds:

Large gaping hole in back of head.

patched by placing piece of rubber.....over it.

Thinks skull full of Plaster of Paris.

Smaller wound in right temple.

Crescent shped, flapped down (3")

(approx 2) Small sharpnel wounds in face.

Packed with wax.

Wound in back (5 to six inches) below shoulder.

To the right of the back bone.

Adrenlin gland and brain removed.

Other organs removed and then put back.

No swelling or discoloration to face.

(Died instantly)

Dr. Berkley (family physician) came in an ask.....

"How much longer???"

He (Robinson) was told (funeral director)

"Take your time."

Is in favor of exhuming body.....to settle once and....for all.

(Robinson quote) "Good pathologists would know exactly"

HOW COULD THE ASSASSINATION RECORDS REVIEW BOARD NOT SUBPOENA THOMAS EVAN ROBINSON AND HEAR THIS CRUCIAL EVIDENCE THAT PROVES, BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT, THAT THE MURDER OF JOHN F. KENNEDY WAS A CONSPIRACY?

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/EMBALMER.htm

B......

Tom: ""Who would know that one was actually "ducking" over directly into the line of fire for the third/last/final shot, as one exposed their right shoulder between the open area between the jump seats.

"Quickly there was a second shot (John had turned to the right at the first shot to look back & had then whirled to the left to get another look---realized the President had been shot said "No, No, No)

Was hit and said "My God, they are are going to kill us all"--Wheeled back to the right crumpling his shoulders and his knees in the most unpleasant & pitiful position a tall big man could be in.

I reached over and pulled him to me & tried to get us both down in the car. Then came a third shot.

With John in my arms and still trying to stay down I did not see the third shot hit--but I felt something falling all over me. My sensation was of spent buckshot. My eyes saw bloody matter in tiny bits all over the car."

Nellie Connally's handwritten notes, made some 10 days after the event.

Not difficult for a bullet to pass through the back/chest and exit to strike the leg when one is in a somewhat "fetal" position.""

***********************************************

Reply:

CONNALLY: Well, he's a hunter and a shooter, you know. So he turned quick...

KING: To his right?

CONNALLY: ... to his right and he couldn't see him because he was directly in front of him. And he said, "No, no, no" and turned to his left.

KING: He visibly said that?

CONNALLY: Yes. And turned to his left and he still couldn't see him. Now this is a second or two. Then, as he whirled back, the second shot hit John and...

KING: Where did it enter him?

CONNALLY: It went under his shoulder, out through -- under the nipple. It went through -- it took out five inches of his fifth rib and went through one of his lungs. He would -- which had all of that...

KING: I thought it hit his wrist.

CONNALLY: His -- he's turning back and his hand is on his thigh. It crushed this wrist and you know, shot the cufflink off.

KING: And you see him shot?

CONNALLY: Yes. And then it landed in his leg. Now, that bullet did all of that. John said, "My God, they're going to kill us all," and just fell over. Blood everywhere.

KING: Was there a third shot?

CONNALLY: There was a third shot.

KING: That's disputed, right?

CONNALLY: No. There's no dispute. You can't argue with me. You can argue with the Warren Commission. You can argue with anybody else, but they weren't in the car. And I was in that car. There were three shots. I have a recollection of all three. The third shot...

KING: What did the third one do?

CONNALLY: Well, I couldn't see it because I had the weight -- I had pulled John over in my lap to get him out of the line of fire. And I couldn't move. But I heard the third shot and then, bloody matter, like buck shot, little pieces were all over the interior of the car, all over our clothes.

KING: Was that Kennedy's brain?

CONNALLY: That was his head and I guess, his brain. And she said, "They've killed my husband. I have his brains in my hand."

KING: You heard her say that?

CONNALLY: I heard her say that.

KING: So you're hearing everything?

CONNALLY: Yes. But I -- but I was -- we were not saying anything. I was whispering to John, "Be still. It'll be all right."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0311/22/lkl.00.html

**********************

Nellie Connally, who was sitting next to her husband in the presidential limousine, always maintained that two bullets struck John F. Kennedy and a third hit her husband. "The first sound, the first shot, I heard, and turned and looked right into the President's face. He was clutching his throat, and just slumped down. He Just had a - a look of nothingness on his face. He-he didn't say anything. But that was the first shot. The second shot, that hit John - well, of course, I could see him covered with - with blood, and his - his reaction to a second shot. The third shot, even though I didn't see the President, I felt the matter all over me, and I could see it all over the car."

John Connally agreed with his wife: "Beyond any question, and I'll never change my opinion, the first bullet did not hit me. The second bullet did hit me. The third bullet did not hit me." As the Warren Commission concluded there also was a bullet that missed the car entirely. Some conspiracy theorists argue that if three bullets struck the men, as the Connallys insisted, and a fourth missed, then there must have been a second gunman because no one person could have fired four rounds from Oswald's bolt-action rifle so quickly.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKconnallyN.htm

**************************

Then, she wrote, John Connally "was hit himself by the second shot and said, `My God, they are going to kill us all!' "

According to her notes, that was followed by the third shot that passed through Kennedy's head.

She wrote: "With John in my arms and still trying to stay down ... I felt something falling all over me. ... My eyes saw bloody matter in tiny bits all over the car. Mrs. Kennedy was saying, `Jack! Jack! They have killed my husband! I have his brains in my hand.' "

http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/spe...1116nellie.html

*****************************

Quickly, there was a second shot. John had turned to the right to look back, and had whirled to the left to get another look to see if he could see the President...he couldn't." The Governor realized what had occurred and said, "No! No! No!" Connally was hit himself by the second shot and yelled, "My God, they are going to kill us all!" He was wheeled back to the right and down to his knees. Nellie tried to pull the two of them down to the floor of the car. Then came a third shot. "With John in my arms, and still trying to stay down, I did not see the third shot hit," Mrs. Connally went on, "but, I felt something falling all over me. My sensation was of spent buckshot. My eyes saw bloody matter in tiny bits all over the car." John Connally was bleeding badly and was motionless.

http://web.lconn.com/mysterease/connally.htm

************************************

I guess like Nellie says......

Nellie CONNALLY: No. There's no dispute. You can't argue with me. You can argue with the Warren Commission. You can argue with anybody else, but they weren't in the car. And I was in that car. There were three shots. I have a recollection of all three. The third shot...

""Tom : Not difficult for a bullet to pass through the back/chest and exit to strike the leg when one is in a somewhat "fetal" position."""

From what we have Zapruder frame 230.......Showing John Connally not in a somewhat fetal position.....

Whatever carry on....

B.......

Moved from Political discussions.....

Posted for Jack.....

Please delete this title start, cannot fine the where to ??

thanks....B

......moved to Goverment conspiracies......

Jack:

Beverly.......""I never bother with annoying researchers. I know who I am and where I was 11-22-1963. Exactly where I say I was. If someone chooses not to believe me, that is their problem, not mine..""

This above is very similar to what she has written to me some time ago, that many people have made up their minds years ago, and that's it.

Below for anyone who may not have read it, is Beverly's ARRB Testimony given in Dallas on 11/18/94....Her statement is very clear....

Testimony of

Beverly Oliver Massegee

ARRB in Dallas - 11/18/94

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MR. MARWELL: Beverly Oliver Massegee.

CHAIRMAN TUNHEIM: Welcome, Ms. Massegee.

MS. MASSEGEE: Thank you. First of all, I just wanted to thank you

for the privilege of appearing before you. I just want to say thank

you for the privilege of being here to appear before you. I know I

am out-classed and out-numbered, and Mr. Marwell I apologize for

my secretary's misspelling of your name when I sent you the letter.

I don't have the documents before me. I am not a researcher.

I was a 17-year-old girl that was at Dealey Plaza that day taking

pictures of the President when he was assassinated. I never

wanted to become a public figure over this. I never intended to.

Until my name was accidentally leaked to the press in 1972, I was

not a public figure. It has caused me great grief. It has caused

me a lot of concern in my life.

I have been called a xxxx as recently as today. I have been called

a hoax. I am neither a xxxx nor am I a hoax. I am who I say I am. I

was down there that day standing between 20 and 30 feet from

the President when he was shot. I was taking a movie film which

on the 25th of November was confiscated by a man who

identified himself as an FBI agent.

I have never until recently started trying to inquire about my film

because I am extremely patriotic, did not see that there was any

reason to because I had assumed all these years that it was

locked up until the year 2029 as evidence, and I am still not sure

that there is anything sinister about it, and that is why I am here.

I would just like an explanation as to what happened to my film

and where it is, and that is the only reason that I am here.

CHAIRMAN TUNHEIM: Questions?

DR. HALL: Could you just briefly indicate to us what measures or

steps you have taken to secure your film?

MS. MASSEGEE: Well, I have not taken any other than questioning

people, but there have been people like a Mr. Woods, and Gary

Shaw, and different people who have made inquiries about my

film in the past. Like I said, I have never until recently felt any

need to until I began to be called a xxxx and a hoax and decided

that I needed to stand up for myself and my own rights and,

therefore, that is why I am here.

There have been documents making reference to my film that

Ms. Walko has sent me in the recent past. One of the document

that I remember that Gary Shaw and Mr. Woods wanted,

requested, it said that it is not in their possession at this time.

Another one was the film that was taken by Ms. Oliver has not

been retained by this office. So there is multiple reference to

my film, and I would just like to know where they are.

I am not here to cause trouble. I am not here to embarrass

anybody. I just want to know, and I think I have a right to that.

MR. JOYCE: Do you have any documentary evidence that this

film was taken by the FBI?

MS. MASSEGEE: No, because I was only 17 years old and I

wasn't smart enough to ask for a receipt. This is a man

representing my government. If he had asked me for my soul,

I would have tried to give it to him. Also, there are ulterior

motives, and I would go ahead and tell you that before

someone else does. Laying next to the camera in my makeup

kit was a Prince Albert can of marijuana, and I would have

done anything to keep him from looking in my makeup kit.

But also let me share this with you, I no longer use marijuana

or anything else. I am a born again Christian and I am married

to a preacher and have been for 23 years.

DR. GRAFF: Might I ask you if you would withdraw the word,

out-classed?

MS. MASSEGEE: Thank you.

DR. GRAFF: Ms. Oliver, were these still photographs?

MS. MASSEGEE: No, they were a movie camera.

DR. GRAFF: It was a movie camera?

MS. MASSEGEE: Yes. It was an 8 millimeter.

DR. GRAFF: Eight millimeter movie camera.

MS. MASSEGEE: Yes, I have been accused of saying it was a

Super 8, but I don't recall that, and to the House Select

Committee investigator Jack Moriarty I, in 1977, March the

12th, I told him it was a movie camera, not a Super 8 movie

camera. I just recently got my typed deposition. I was glad to

see that.

MR. MARWELL: Had you gotten the film developed?

MS. MASSEGEE: No, I had not. It was an experimental camera

that a friend of mine named Lawrence Taylor Roscoe, Jr., had

given me, and I had to send the film - and I don't recall why, but

I had to send it to Rochester, it was a magazine, and that may

be why. You know, you didn't roll it on, it was a magazine, and

I just had not done it. I found some film, and this is what I

brought with me because people are often curious about why

I didn't do it, I have film that I have no earthly idea how old they

are or how they are ever going to develop, and it is a movie film,

and I brought it. I am going to get somebody to look at it, and

see what I can do to get it developed, because it is old it

probably won't be able to developed. It is just a flaw in my

character.

But I would like to make one statement to you, and to anybody

else who is interested, when all the pictures or all the pieces of

this puzzle is put together, and I have faith enough in my

government and in my country to believe that eventually it will

be all out, all of it will be given to the researchers and the

research community unredacted, unedited, undamaged in any

manner, and whenever this is all put together and we really

have the honest picture of what happened that day, no one

more than Beverly Oliver hopes I have to stand up to America

and apologize.

Thank you.

CHAIRMAN TUNHEIM: Thank you very much.

B....

*****************

Denis:

I know you will not be, but some may, expect the full tape or all tapes, to have been....or allowed to have been copied.....Not...

...it is a clip that is heard...as I have stated.....in my previous post.......of that tape.......it is also heard again louder and clearer at the end of the DVD.....

...of course it is ,as LHO is speaking of

killing.....but they leave out the chuckling I shall call it, that you can hear from Eric and LHO.....in the first playing.....of the clip, on the

DVD......part way through......

........Eric as he calls himself...has a very valuable collection

of these LHO tapes.......they used the facitiies, as I understand the day or full afternoon at the Univ..He is not ready to sell or

release then, he knows of their monetary value it appears....

It took them months ,to get close enough to him to be able to converse and then the video interview.....

LHO apparently read such as Shakespeare, and from books etc that day, for hours.....and Eric has them all....

The setting, is Minsk, all filmed within Russia, it is the story of LHO while he lived there........all interviews are with people who

knew or were in contact with him...There is also information about how the KGB kept track of him...it is also mentioned that

the Russians also have their set of tapes, from the bugging of his apt.........

Eric states LHO did speak Russian, but poorly, he wanting to learn proper English, became his friend and one helped the other....it relates

quite the story.........imo....

But the ending as with so many, is that LHO in the end assassinated JFK and alone....

FWIW...........B

Fellow members, I have been in touch with Gary Mack today via email about the Oswald Russian tape. He told me the tape hasn't been released by the KGB. The Museum doesn't have it. Gary would like it if someone would donate the book Harvey and Lee to the 6th Floor Museum in Dallas. I think it's a historic book and should be donated to any organization -- despite personalities -- regarding President Kennedy Assassination Research.

Kathy Collins

While they might do well to have it - why don't they just purchase a copy and not ask for it as a donation. They charge an entrance fee for their museum and make profits. Copies are still available new.

Peter:

It is just the type of book, that the TSBD does not and will not sell...that is the why he wants one copy donated....

....he does not recommend such books be stored in stock....let alone sold at the book store.......

It has been available for several years....so why would he want a donated copy now.....??

When he has delibertatey ignored such all these years, perhaps it is an awakening....

I would suggest as you have, the TSBD buy it's own copy........they are very quick to charge anyone and all for copies

of anything they sell ,as well as for admittance....

B............

What tape is this? Is there a transcript available? This is fascinating.

I don't know which tape specifically is being referred to, but you can bet your bootie much of Oswald's and Marina's converstations and actions were taped and still held in Russia. I have a contact I'm trying to obtain files/transcripts from. Aside from the things they actually talked about, what languages they spoke would be most enlightening!...I think Russia is withholding them to not anger the USA on something they don't have a big stake in...IMO. [i.e. the tapes would blow the whole official version out of the water]

The link below will take you to a small extract of the tape Kathy is refering to. Denis. http://www.russianbooks.org/oswald/tapes.htm

******************

Hi Denis:

The DVD is called, "American Assassin" out last year...2007......

It is very one sided, you get my meaning, but there is much information within ...

It is available at Amazon but the best price is at

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?...rm=frooglemovie

People will just have to break open that piggy bank and order it...

Ernst Titovetz , his closest friend while there, also states what you have, in the past, they were young

men and fooling around one day with a tape machine, and LHO was trying to put on an accent....there

was much kabitzing going on....

B.....

Not that much, Jack....

NARA Finding Aid - Audio-Visual Listing

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...absPageId=70485

A Record from Mary Ferrell's Database

Record: OLIVER, BEVERLY (MRS. CHARLES MASSAGEE)

Sources: Dallas Morning News, Thurs, Feb 18, 1982, p. 9-A; Dallas Times Herald, Thurs, Feb 18, 1982, p. 1-C

Mary's

Comments: Claims she is the "Babushka Lady" taking a film of the assassination. Worked at Colony Club on 11/22/63 as singer. Married to an evangelist, Massagee, in 1980.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...ult&id=7092

A Record from Mary Ferrell's Database

Record: MCGANN, GEORGE ALBERT

Sources: Crossfire, Marrs, pp. 36-37, 562; High Treason, Groden & Livingstone, pp. 105, 123; Ruby Coverup, Kantor, pp. 393-394

Mary's

Comments: DOB: 3/15/36; POB: Wichita Falls, TX. 5' 11", 190 pounds, brown hair, brown eyes. FBI numbers: 961 364 E, DL 15-6383 and Bufile 15-60061 (15 = theft from interstate shipment). Member of Dixie Mafia, a group of organized criminals in Dallas area. After assassination, he married Beverly Oliver, a dancer at Abe Weinstein's Colony Club. Oliver allegedly took film of Kennedy assassination on 11/22/63 which was "taken away from her." McGann was killed in Big Spring, TX, in a mob-type execution in 1970.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...ult&id=6380

A Record from Mary Ferrell's Database

Record: CARROLL, ROGER C.

Sources: Who Was Jack Ruby, Kantor (35); Legacy of Doubt, Noyes (71, 73-5, 81); The Hoffa Wars, Moldea (160)

Mary's

Comments: Chief Probation Officer, United States District Court, Northern District of Texas, Dallas in 1963. Eugene Brading checked in with him 11/21/63. When George McGann was murdered in Big Spring, TX, in 1970, he had Roger Carroll's business card in his possession. (McGann was married to Beverly Oliver at the time of his death.)

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...ult&id=2030

On the main search page on Bev...from which I followed to the above......

also contains links to the Essays & Journals...Books.....

Witnesses at the AARB....where she is mentioned.......

That's it........

B......

Some further information on Hugh Aynesworth............

A Record from Mary Ferrell's Database

Record: AYNESWORTH, HUGH -----

Sources: WC 17 (778-80); CD 4, p. 672; CD 86, p. 497; CD 355, p. 10; CD 857-A; CD 1292; CD 1293; CD 1294; CD 1295 (9); CD 1408 (3-7); Dallas Downtown News, 9/20-26/82 (16); copy of Western Union Press message, 1967 or 1968, in Lyndon B. Johnson Library.

Mary's

Comments: DOB: 1931 Reporter for Dallas Morning News in 1963. Offered Oswald's Diary for sale to Life Magazine. His wife, Paula, actually sold diary to Life. Apparently money was split 3 ways: Hugh, Paula, and Bill Alexander (Asst. D.A.). In 1976, with Dallas Times Herald and "...On His Way to Cuba With Permission from the State Dept., and the Cuban Government to Write book for Penthouse Magazine." Researcher Kevin Walsh found a copy of a Western Union Press Message from Hugh Aynesworth to George Christian in the LBJ Library in Austin. The message was written in 1967 or 1968. Last line reads: "I intend to make a complete report of my knowledge available to the FBI, as I have done in the past."

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...sult&id=636

Information related in "Kennedy's Ghost"

by Rex Bradford.....

Hugh Aynesworth: " Refusing a Conspiracy is his Life's Work."..by Jim Di Eugenio is linked below..in notes..

""Spokespeople for the "other side" include Priscilla Johnson McMillan, author of Marina and Lee, and former newspaperman Hugh Aynesworth. It would be petty I suppose to mention that both of them had clandestine relationships with intelligence agencies in the past, CIA in McMillan's case [1] and FBI as well as CIA in Aynesworth's [2]. I do not mean to convey that this is sinister per se; simply that given the many documented failures of these agencies with respect to the JFK murder, it is not too much to expect an acknowledgment of these sources' potential biases.""

[2] Declassified documents show that Dallas reporter Hugh Aynesworth was in contact with the Dallas CIA office and had on at least one occasion "offered his services to us." The files are chock full of Aynesworth informing to the FBI, particularly in regard to the Garrison investigation. See for example an account of lengthy FBI meeting with Aynesworth on 26 Apr 1967 re: Garrison and 5 May 1967 Domestic Intelligence Division note. See also a CIA 27 Dec 1967 account of a phone call in which Aynesworth is said to have offered to secure documents "extracted" from Garrison's files (by William Gurvich). Also of note is a message Aynesworth sent to George Christian at LBJ's White House, in which Aynesworth wrote that "My interest in informing government officials of each step along the way is because of my intimate knowledge of what Jim Garrison is planning." See Jim DiEugenio's Hugh Aynesworth: Refusing a Conspiracy is his Life's Work. ..

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/..._Kennedys_Ghost

B.......

Duke: Quote: "ROFLMAO! Touche! But where's the ankle photo?

I don't think that Mack has ever shied from his legal (or birth) name, any more so than I have from mine.

Latest I recall - correct me if I'm wrong - I'm not thinking he claims to be a witness to anything that is affected by what he's called, any more than I am when it comes to who wrote that book: my name is on my birth certificate; the author's name is not on his, so what's the point? "

*******************

Oh, I agree Duke:

Gary does not allow anything he claims to witness to affect him by any name he may be called.......

.....me thinks he may go on the old time principal of ,

......call him anything you want, just don't call him late for supper......so go ahead anything goes....

You mean Gary, Larry's ankles, sorry I have photos of his face, head, back, body etc, but he has not shown off those

ankles for any for us...pity.....we shall just have to wait till we catch him ......Strolling the Plaza....in his Bermuda's...

B.........

Here you go Pat...compliments of the W/R......

B....

Gary Mack has complained to many email correspondents that I inaccurately portrayed Hugh Aynesworth as a member of the group which challenged Bev Oliver to a debate. He is correct. Mack and Perry were the ones who issued the challenge, and when they showed up at the barbecue site chosen for the meeting, they were joined at a table by Aynesworth. The debate arose when Mack and Perry repeatedly challenged Oliver's identity as the Babushka Lady in Jim Marrs' JFK study group at UTA. Someone in the group of researchers arranged for the debate meeting and sent out postcards. About two dozen researchers showed up, plus opponents Mack, Perry and Aynesworth. Bev had an attorney friend with her. Marrs, who had no part in setting up the meeting, served as emcee/moderator. As I recall, I sat near Jean Hill. I had provided lots of slides for Beverly to show, which in sequence showed her movements around the plaza. Of particular interest were her shoes, which she said she still possessed. I do not remember who arranged and publicized the meeting; it may have been the late Larry Howard. I should not have implied that Aynesworth had anything to do with setting up the debate.

Jack

Having been one of the attendees at said BBQ joint for such "debate," let me add a few comments.

As I, too, recall, it was indeed Larry Howard who put together the deal, although he sat in the audience rather than on the dais, brandishing a file folder with Gary Mack's birth name emblazoned on it as if it was somehow a crime that someone would use a name other than their own, like Kidd Craddick does on another Dallas-area radio station. "Kidd?" C'mon, I'd imagine his parents were a little more imaginative than that!!

I don't recall that Aynesworth sat with Perry, but I suppose it's possible: I've slept since then. It would've meant he was also sitting with me, which i don't think was the case. That was after I'd given him a particularly hard time at a "Marrs Meeting" (which you might recall; I'm fairly certain John Armstrong would since he was there and we talked extensively afterward. I don't imagine Hugh would've thought of me as any kind of an ally at that point. No matter.

The "debate" was heavily weighed against anyone who didn't buy into the Beverly-as-Babushka Lady story. One might do well to recall that, up until that evening, Mary Ferrell also didn't think that the two were one and the same. Although I remember Mary's exact rationale for finally accepting the possibility - more on that momentarily - the rest of the "debate" centered around Beverly being a good Christian woman whose husband is a preacher, so why would she of all people in the world lie?

The photo you put in your message, added here because it was quite a number of posts (and replies with full posts quoted in them) back, is perhaps instructive. The arrow, unintended for the purpose I'm going to note, goes to the heart of the matter.

Mary Ferrell's disbelief of Beverly being the Babushka Lady centered on the women's ankles. Mary noted - as only a woman could - that a woman's ankle's never change shape. A young lady with slender ankles will have slender ankles when she's 40 or 50 or 60; likewise, a woman with wide ankles will not have slender ankles when she's 40 or 50 or 60.

(Not being an "ankle man" myself, I'd never noticed such a thing until that night, but have much more so since then, and I have to say her analysis was right on the money.)

Unfortunately, if someone had this photo or a similar one at the BBQ joint that night, I didn't see it and thus could not have compared Beverly's ankles with Babushka's; when I've seen Beverly, I haven't had such a photo, and haven't seen Beverly when I had a photo handy.

So here's the challenge, capitulated to (seemingly reluctantly) by Mary Ferrell, but still uncertain as far as I'm concerned: post a similar photo of Beverly where we can see her ankles, and then let's compare the two sets. They're either the same or they're not, and if they're not, the Babuska Lady is still unknown.

Having a pair of shoes doesn't mean a thing. You can have several pairs of shoes, some that look like others, but you can only have one set of ankles. I've also never given a lot of credence to her "experimental camera" story either, but one thing at a time, eh?

*****************************

Duke : Quote: ""So here's the challenge, capitulated to (seemingly reluctantly) by Mary Ferrell, but still uncertain as far as I'm concerned: post a similar photo of Beverly where we can see her ankles, and then let's compare the two sets. They're either the same or they're not, and if they're not, the Babuska Lady is still unknown. ""

Here you go Duke........below......Bev's ankles and Babuska's.........

Now here's my challenge, Gary Mack's name was Lawrence Dunkel.....

I would like to see, a comparison of two photos.......one of Gary Mack's Ankles and another of Lawrence Dunkel's....

Let's compare them......They're also either the same or they're not...so

For a positive ID that Gary is Larry, and Larry is Gary....it's ..Time to show their ankles....

Thank you ever so.....

B........

Peter :

Main Weberman Page........Right hand side in red.....click Gerry Patrick Hemming leads to a video......

http://www.ajweberman.com/coupt5.htm

Video page.......If it stops click on the left hand side button again....and it continues....that is what worked for moi..

http://www.ajweberman.com/hemreal.htm

B............

I know several on this Forum kept up private email or phone correspondances with Gerry. Minus any personal parts I hope they will now feel free to impart whatever Gerry was able to provide as to his or other's involvement or possible involvement in the areas of our mutual interest. It is sad he was wheelchair bound in his last years, as his early photos show a prime-physical example of health. I'm most interested in this film John hinted about.....John, can you find out from the person who did it if and when they are thinking of making it available. There are not that many primary players or persons who had associates involved when the events happened. Tempus fugit and time to really make the most of what we have and who we yet have....

RIP GPH.

******************

Peter:

A.J Weberman made a tape with him back in 95.........I believe the Hemming Lancer Panel was in 96..or thereabouts.....

so the tape is more than likely one and the same, it is the only I have ever heard of....mentioned...?

You might want to contact him.......he has information related to it on his website,so if this is the tape, he has made no

secret of it.....

See......

THE THEORY

RINGLEADER: GERRY PATRICK HEMMING

Evidence strongly suggests HEMMING (former prisoner of Castro), met OSWALD in the Marines, and brought him into his plan. Click HERE to see a photo of HEMMING and this researcher taken in 1995. HEMMING told this researcher: "How can you set up people to take a fall unless you're dealing with them personally? Get the clue, asshole?" In 1978 I met HEMMING at his "private detective" office in the Little Havana section of Miami. Click HERE to see a photo of HEMMING in 1978. I was impressed by this 6' 7" man. HEMMING exuded self confidence and was fully conversant with all facets of trade craft. He was a criminal genius. HEMMING provided me with the identity of the third tramp. He said: "FRANK STURGIS was firing from the Records Building." He visited me at Bleecker Street......... ...and on...........

http://www.ajweberman.com/nodules2/nodulec1.htm

B.........

Lee this is the obit from the Fayetteville newspaper.....

Published on Friday, February 01, 2008

Cold War figure dies

By Corey G. Johnson

Staff writer

A former soldier who trained Cubans to fight against Fidel Castro and had been a central figure in assassination probes of John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. died this week in Fayetteville, family members said.

Gerald Patrick Hemming, 70, died in his sleep at his Haymount Manor apartment, his daughter, Kristi Hemming Roderick, said Thursday.

An exact date and cause of death is still being determined. Mr. Hemming will be buried with military honors at 2 p.m. Monday in Sandhills State Veterans Cemetery.

“My father was a Cold War freedom fighter,” Kristi Hemming said. “He put country first, which meant he wasn’t around as much as we like, but that’s OK, we loved him anyway.”

Born March 1, 1937, in Los Angeles, Mr. Hemming joined the Marines in 1954. Four years later, he left the Marines to go to Cuba, where he fought side-by-side with Fidel Castro to overthrow then president Fulgencio Batista in 1959.

“A lot of people don’t remember that initially we supported Castro,” said Mr. Hemming’s wife, Patricia Hemming. Patricia and Kristi Hemming live in Fayetteville.

Shortly after Castro assumed power, Mr. Hemming discovered the Cuban leader secretly working with the Soviet Union. He felt betrayed.

“He didn’t know nuclear warheads were being pumped into Cuba,” his wife said. “When he found out, he tried his best to stop it.”

Castro learned of Mr. Hemming’s plans to organize an uprising and threw him and his friends in jail, Patricia Hemming said. Sometime later, Mr. Hemming was able to escape. Many of his fellow insurgents weren’t as lucky.

“My father named my brother Felipe Vidal Santiago, in honor of Felipe Vidal, who was executed,” Kristi Hemming said. Vidal was a Cuban naval officer who went into exile when Castro gained power.

Mr. Hemming returned to the United States and settled in Miami, where he gradually became a fixture in the anti-Castro community. At the time, the CIA — operating out of a non-descript office on the campus of the University of Miami — was heavily recruiting Cubans for a secret offensive against Castro, according to congressional records.

Mr. Hemming was also recruiting and training Cubans to fight in his organization, called the Intercontinental Penetration Force (Interpen), the records shows. Some people alleged that Mr. Hemming was working with the CIA during that time.

His wife and daughter deny the allegation.

“If he did, where were the checks?” Patricia Hemming said. “We scraped and struggled all of our life.”

After President Kennedy was assassinated in 1963, the FBI questioned Mr. Hemming as a suspect. Investigators dropped the inquiry once they learned he was in Miami taking care of his pregnant wife, Patricia Hemming said.

But in the 1970s, congressional investigators questioned Mr. Hemming again after he revealed that he met Lee Harvey Oswald years before the assassination.

FBI files show that Mr. Hemming told agents in March 1968 that someone had offered to pay him to kill King.

Patricia Hemming said her husband began to fervently research both assassinations, in part to get to the truth and in part to clear his name.

“Those accusations were like a cloud that he wanted to get rid of,” she said.

As part of that effort, Mr. Hemming spoke out at assassination-related conferences. He is also listed as a technical adviser on Oliver Stone’s film J.F.K.

But he got his most joy in his humanitarian work, Kristie Hemming said.

In the 1970s, Mr. Hemming organized a group of doctors and Special Forces veterans for a rescue mission into Peru after an earthquake hit.

And he led a rescue mission into Honduras after a Hurricane flooded an entire area, family members said.

He moved from Florida to Fayetteville in the 1990s because he wanted to be near the Veterans Affairs Medical Center and old buddies.

“He wasn’t driven by money or the world,” Patricia Hemming said. “Honor was his most important thing.”

Staff writer Corey G. Johnson can be reached at johnsonc@fayobserver.com or 323-4848, ext. 487

Copyright 2008 - The Fayetteville (NC) Observer

http://www.fayobserver.com/article?id=284570

B.....

""Kellerman marked the parade route on the photo (which is barely visible)) but he also is purported to have marked an X for the first shot and a single Y for the second and third shots (confirming that he thought the last two shots rang out together..""

And you believe it...

Thought, certainly he did, with "invisible ink"......

Cropped, lightened and blown up...

Gee thanks.....

B.......

Absolutely, I believe it. It's right there in his and Greer's testimony. Both of them marked the photo. Now, it's possible that Specter or the WC tried to erase it, or that the marks faded, but it makes no sense to have them fake marking it in their testimony.

At one point, for unclear reasons, they decided to start using a clean version of this photo. They called this CE 354. The CE 354 published by the WC did not show the actual marks, but showed where the marks supposedly were. I think these marks accurately reflect the marks made. Agent Hill marked the location of the limousine at the time of the first shot around where eyewitnesses say the limo was at the first shot. Amazingly, however, Agent Youngblood marked the location of the VP car at the time of the first shot, FURTHER down the road than Hill's mark. After that, the WC lawyers stopped asking people where the car was at the time of the first shot.

************

Well I am glad to have found someone who believes even a part of the W/C....and unwaveringly, I do not mean that

facetiously.....

Was not this a Goverment Commission, was not Greer a Government employee....??

Was it not reported by some that their testimony was altered and some information not

appearing within, upon the printing....??.

Were some not pressured to change their testimony,

and upon not doing so, found it had been for them......??

Apart from leaving out of course some very important witness that were never called, in the first place....

I do think you answered your own question, Pat, ""Amazingly, however, Agent Youngblood marked the location of the VP car at the time of the first shot, FURTHER down the road than Hill's mark. After that, the WC lawyers stopped asking people where the car was at the time of the first shot.""

Nothing within the W/C can be trusted, nor taken at solid face value, as being complete to any given subject...within......

simply because too much was not investigated, or and not included, nor handed into them.......

It is and remains an unholy mismash , of a government gone wrong......it was the final chapter in the Assassination of America.....at it's time...

like the title of the books.....imo..

Thanks for the come back....I agree not to agree.....

B.........

""Kellerman marked the parade route on the photo (which is barely visible)) but he also is purported to have marked an X for the first shot and a single Y for the second and third shots (confirming that he thought the last two shots rang out together..""

And you believe it...

Thought, certainly he did, with "invisible ink"......

Cropped, lightened and blown up...

Gee thanks.....

B.......

Pat :

How sure of the numbering.....CE 347.......are you...??

CE 347

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=138612

Here it is lightened one degree......

B......

Hugh G. Aynesworth played an important role in the media cover-up of the assassination of JFK. He contacted me a few weeks ago and complained about what I had written about him on my website. I invited him to join the Forum where he would be free to point out where I had gone wrong. I has yet to accept the invitation.

Aynesworth went to work for the Dallas Morning News in 1960. This is what he had to say about Joachim Joesten's Oswald, Assassin or Fall Guy? in the Dallas Morning News on 1st August, 1964:

If you would listen to this one, he would have you thinking that Lee Harvey Oswald was a polite little misunderstood youth who just got mixed up in the wrong company...

Oh how terrible, says Joesten (an ex-German who became a U.S. citizen in 1948 and must wonder why), poor little Lee Harvey was the victim of a ruthless plot headed by Dallas police leaders, District Attorney Henry Wade and his staff and a few "bad guys" from the FBI.

Joesten further states that Oswald was an agent of both the FBI and the CIA (how's that for a 24-year-old who couldn't spell "wrist"?).

It's the same old tripe with some new flavoring....

The tip-off is the foreword, wherein Joesten dedicates his book to "Mark Lane... the brilliant and courageous New York attorney...." Lane is the troublemaker who spent two day's in Dallas in January on his "investigation" and now pretends to be an expert on all aspects of the weird tragedy.

Aynesworth was a strong supporter of the "lone assassin theory" and led the attacks on Mark Lane and his book on the Warren Commission, the pioneering Rush to Judgement (1965).

In May, 1967 Aynesworth published a critical article of Jim Garrison in Newsweek: "Garrison's tactics have been even more questionable than his case. I have evidence that one of the strapping D.A.'s investigators offered an unwilling "witness" $3,000 and a job with an airline - if only he would "fill in the facts" of the alleged meeting to plot the death of the President. I also know that when the D.A.'s office learned that this entire bribery attempt had been tape-recorded, two of Garrison's men returned to the "witness" and, he says, threatened him with physical harm."

Jim Garrison responded to this article in his book, On The Trail of the Assassins (1988). He argued that: "As for the $3,000 bribe, by the time I came across Aynesworth's revelation, the witness our office had supposedly offered it to, Alvin Babeouf, had admitted to us that it never happened. Aynesworth, of course, never explained what he did with the "evidence" allegedly in his possession. And the so-called bribery tape recording had not, in fact, ever existed."

James DiEugenio has argued: "With the work of the Assassination Records Review Board, many more pages of documents have been released showing how tightly bound Aynesworth was with the intelligence community. It has been demonstrated that Aynesworth was - at the minimum - working with the Dallas Police, Shaw's defense team, and the FBI. He was also an informant to the White House, and had once applied for work with the CIA. As I have noted elsewhere, in the annals of this case, I can think of no reporter who had such extensive contacts with those trying to cover up the facts in the JFK case. And only two come close: Edward Epstein and Gerald Posner."

********************************

John :

Here is a copy of the Newsweek article.......that Aynesworth wrote in regard to Garrison.......in May 1967.......

B......

Thanks Gary for the information.....

Here is a copy of a DPD letter, you may be interested in....

B......

Posted for Harry.......

""Most of my fellow activists and many of their superiors, involved in plans and actions to murder J. F. Kennedy, have died. The final activists, in 2006.

Each of them were living when this chart and an expose' of them was written

{1990}

All were protected when the 'NEW AMERICANIST ORDER' seized power on

22 November 1963.

Harry J. Dean ""

B....

Here are two other views......FWTAW

These are newer views taken some years later, and the bench area

is now a cemented patio, which raised it, to some degree, as well as

the knoll being repaired and perhaps raised, somewhat ,from the repairs after

the wash out, that took place some time later.....

B....