Bernice Moore

Here you go, Girl...........Was It Johnson ?.......The missing three hours..... as well as all the other episodes of the Men Who Killed Kennedy.... http://tiny.cc/C1Cjv If a problem with that link..then........ http://www.youtube.com/results?search=rela...p;v=7mzZGK9tNyM B...........

Another oddity, Interesting that Rowley's memo on page 4 of CD 80, refers to the Ferguson memo that is dated December 1st, 1963. The memo we have is dated December 18 th, 1963. Was there a December 1st memo that had to be corrected (if so, sloppily) on December 18 th. ? Also, in a chronology of the limo prepared by the HSCA, it refers to testimony by Mr. Ferguson. I cannot find any testimony by him. Where is that testimony.....?? B.......

*********************** Well will you have a look....I did find it, and the FBI states that the Arlington Glass replaced the windshield on page 4, on........ Nov.26th.........not the 25th as Pamela re the Ferguson statement states. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=4 B..........

Pamela would you publish the part of the White House Garage log showing that Arlington glass replaced the glass on November 25, as you stated in your posting and that the Ferguson memo claims. Below is the Ferguson statement where he does relate that date...... But within the SS W/H Garge log, the closest that comes to such, but with No Date, mentioned is on page 2... See below......also... http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=10482 B..... Edited, for spelling.

The SS did informal searches of the limo during the 12 hours following the assassination. Then the FBI did a rather cursory forensic exam at 1 a.m. 11.23.63. All of this is detailed at my JFK website www.in-broad-daylight.com. It was cleaned out on Saturday, the windshield replaced on Monday by Arlington Glass, and new carpeting installed in early December. The limo was kept in the White House Garage until December 20, 1963 when Vaughn Ferguson Drove it to Dearborn to be gutted and rebuilt as a bulletproof limo. Sounds like you may be referencing Mr. Whittaker, who has attempted to appropriate Vaughn Ferguson's statements and rework them into his own experiences. Ferguson was at Dearborn regularly and played golf with a number of FMC employees. Ferguson told the story of his experiences with the limo to numerous people. He was very unhappy with the govt treatment of the car. A few other employees at the FMC have attempted to appropriate Ferguson's statments as well. This is evidence of the significance of the limo as the crime scene. ************************* Quote: Pamela : "Sounds like you may be referencing Mr. Whittaker, who has attempted to appropriate Vaughn Ferguson's statements and rework them into his own experiences. Ferguson was at Dearborn regularly and played golf with a number of FMC employees. Ferguson told the story of his experiences with the limo to numerous people. He was very unhappy with the govt treatment of the car. A few other employees at the FMC have attempted to appropriate Ferguson's statments as well. " There is no congruity between Whitaker's account and Ferguson so how could he rework anything into his account and for what purpose? He never mentioned anything to anyone but his family and he insisted on anonymity so what purpose would there be to do this? Who are these other employees that have attempted to appropriate Ferguson's statements? Can you name one and give an account?. Quote Pamela,"Ferguson was at Dearborn regularly and played golf with a number of FMC employees.." From what is known, it is not thought that Whitaker played golf and certainly no thought that he would have ever met Ferguson. What is truly amazing is that you without any knowledge, have suggestsed that Whitaker played golf with Ferguson and along with others....possibly weaved themselves into his fictictious account. Are you referencing here one of your own made up statements....?? Name the others and give an account.... ........ In addition, Mr. Whitaker started telling his family about what happeneed right away (November 25). Ferguson was allegedly in D.C. for a long time after the asassination ( Pamela are you suggesting that Ferguson was golfing in Michigan in December?) Check the weather. His account was not allegedly written until December 18th and many of the events were post November 25, so how could Whitaker weave anything into his account (though there is not one similarity.) B..........

From post # 25........Re Nick Prencipe..... Quote Pamela: "Weldon encouraged Stavis Ellis to move the location of the hole he thought he saw upwards, and for Nick Prencipe to 'forget' the location of the hole he saw after he had already provided a location for it. " Quote B:......"There was only One witness who recalled seeing the hole a bit lower in the windshield, than the other witnesses, and that was Stavis Ellis...Doug notes this information in his chapter in "Murder In Dealey Plaza"...and he offers an explanation..He does not gloss anything over.....Doug spoke to Stavis hundreds of times.. Stavis was only certain that there was a bullethole and admitted his recollection as to the exact location could have been flawed... Quote : Pamela "Not so. Nick Prencipe also saw a hole low on the windshield, at least when I interviewed him. Later, Weldon got him to say that he couldn't recall where the hole was. A legal tactic at the least. As you have pointed out, Weldon also got Ellis to be 'uncertain' about where the hole was he thought he saw. Rather convenient." --------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: NPRINCE9@juno.com > To: pamelamXXXXXXX > Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:18:36 -0400 > Subject: Re: Re: reply again > Message-ID: <20000710.082154.-3779853.1.NPRINCE9XXXXXX > > Pam > Over the years--many--I have met people from all walks of life and I > am a pretty good listener and observer. > When some have a particular interest or goal in mind--many things that > are pertinent--but present an opposite version or opinion--there is > always an inclination to avoid what is evident, or to attempt todiscredit > it. > I have always spoken exactly what I feel and to whomever I am addressing > and I will never change. I have ralked with Presidents and in one case, > gave one a scorching he did not expect--and apologized for it--this is > the truth. > >From day one, I have talked with fellow officers and other people, about > talking with Greer the night of the event. > I have not changed anything I ever stated, and nver will, even under > oath. That is my position. > As far as remembering who was where and what time it was and other > confirmations, its been a long time and I never put too much emphasis on > them, but the facts stated remain AS IS AND WERE. > > Thanks, good luck Nick B.........

From post # 25........ Quote B: "The Ferguson memo states that the windshield was removed and stored in a closet and not seen again. Yet there are accounts of people seeing the windshield after that date..... The analysis and fallacy of that memo is also in his chapter in MIDP...." "Quote :Pamela: You might want to start doing your own research. The Ferguson memo states no such thing. " ...B.........Here is the exact quote from Ferguson's Dec. 18 memo after describing that the windshield had been removed on Nov. 25: "A Mr. Davis of the Secret Service then took the windshield and put it in the stockroom under lock and key and I have not seen it since." Also noted later is that Kelllerman examined the damaged windshield on November 27, allegedly a short time before the windshield was replaced (and two days after Ferguson said it was locked away.) Discussed on page 137.of "Murder In Dealey Plaza"....... Ferguson un-numbered statement posted below....... B.........

It is interesting that Weldon's info is considered outside of media control when he is, or was, a prosecutor and used some of the same strategies the Bug did in compiling his theories. One of the issues is that each of the witnesses to seeing a t&t hole in the windshield saw it in different places on the windshield. How can that be? Weldon glossed over that, as it didn't fit his theory. Another issue is that they all described a hole about the size of a pencil. Why would they say such a thing? Had someone suggested that the windshield was 'special', perhaps 'bulletproof'? The windshield was a stock '61 LCC part. There was nothing special about it. Weldon avoided this fact, as it was inconvenient. Tie those items into the fact that the windshield that was photographed by Robert Frazier's team at 1 a.m. 11.23.63 during the FBI exam was the same one kicked out by the Arlington Glass men on Monday. That windshield is the one still at NARA. Based on that information, any windshield swapping would have to have taken place prior to the FBI exam and the photographing of it that became CE 350. A prosecutor can make a case out of anything and make it appear believable. The truth may be something else. I just read your Hole is a hole site and can't make out exactly what you think the explanation for the crack/hole/defect is and what made it and when. It seems hard for me to believe people would say they saw a hole [as oppossed to a crack] had they not seen one. The fact that people put it in slightly different places is not surprising. Perhaps there was even both a crack and a hole. Given the government's handling of the evidence with just about everything else, anything is possible, and anything they now hold as the 'original' needs to at least be entertained as potentially suspect, IMO. Yet another mystery of that mysterious day. They were using safely glass in 63 weren't they [if, as you say, it was not bullet-proof]? Has anyone taken a similar windshield and tried to see what bullets and fragments of bullets would do to it? Galanges statement seems fairly clear, as did the other statement of a hole clear through. The Greer statement is strange and debated - as are just about all the facts of that day. Perhaps just as someone clearly tampered with the body and autopsy photos, so might they have tampered with the car evidence, and statements made about it - even photos of it. The strange gap in the logbook is curious. Any of these individually can be explained away, but when taken as as whole, alone with the 'whole' of other strange events that day and in the investigation, little the officials say holds water - nor was meant to. ************ Peter : The last time Doug was an Assistant Prosecutor was in 1985. It also gave him an understanding of how people like the Bug and Specter manipulate evidence...He has not been such in the past 23 years...... There was only One witness who recalled seeing the hole a bit lower in the windshield, than the other witnesses, and that was Stavis Ellis...Doug notes this information in his chapter in "Murder In Dealey Plaza"...and he offers an explanation..He does not gloss anything over.....Doug spoke to Stavis hundreds of times.. Stavis was only certain that there was a bullethole and admitted his recollection as to the exact location could have been flawed... As for the Arlington glass company, the White House log records show that they were not there Monday, but after that. The F. Vaughn Ferguson memo, may have been a cover-up tool. The Ferguson memo states that the windshield was removed and stored in a closet and not seen again. Yet there are accounts of people seeing the windshield after that date..... The analysis and fallacy of that memo is also in his chapter in MIDP.... Doug also spoke with Willard Hess , the man who was most closely aligned with the limo.....who knew Ferguson and about him....and well, he did not think much about his account....... As far as what windshield is at the Archives , they will not allow anyone to examine it, sound familiar....Now Livingstone did published a photo, which differed from CE 350.....but I believe he also was not allowed to view it.. Doug Weldon, also has Never stated that the windshield was bulletproof, Nor implied such.......This is discussed also extensively in his chapter in Murder In Dealey Plaza........ B..............

Agreed. But wonder if any of the men who worked on refurbishing it are still alive to bear witness to what they saw and had to 'repair'?! I'd almost be willing to bet they had to take secrecy oaths or have been just plain threatened to keep their mouths shut....but one never knows...after all this time.... for more info concerning the Limo see: Murder in Dealey Plaza, Part II, The Kennedy Limousine pgs. 120-159, by Douglas Weldon, J.S. ************** Doug Weldon : TMWKK The Final Chapter, ep.1.The Smoking Gun, seg 2 Limo information begins with Dr.2 minutes ..Dr.Galanges......54 seconds into the video.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAW-bxxZfcM The Limo Windshield, Bullet from Front Limo to Detroit, Part I TMWKK, The Final Chapter, ep.1 The Smoking Gun, seg.3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmMXfBgjsh0...feature=related JFK Assassination, Presidential limo SS-100-X, part 5 B.......

Was this issue ever resolved? Before reviving it, I noticed that this thread petered out around the same time John Ritchson died, and he was the one who had said it was CWO Robrt M. Powell. Where did he get that name? Thanks, BK Hi Bill : I have no idea, but to my knowledge......I recall him posting this question on jfkresearch that day, but no information was forth coming....he also inquired on the other forums as well..... The only other I found in the documentation, was of a proposed manifest of those who would be going to Dallas. below...and Gearhart is listed.. B.....

Bill: Peter Some below may be of interest..... I searched the files on CWO Robert M. Powell... Made after John's request, but I have never found anything further... Here is some further info from a folder, that you may be interested in, posted below.....this first information did preceed my post from a.. few years ago, link here on the EF, but have not been able to find that older thread so far.....It is from.....the book.... "Cover Up " by Shaw & Harris. In the book by Jim Moore, "The Day The President Was Shot"..(" a well written but inaccurate book which is, essentially, the Warren Report in narrative form"...Shaw..Harris)... Bishop tells the story of Officer Ira Gearhart who was a member of the Presidential party, carrying a metal suitcase which carried the all important electronic apparatus so that if needed the President could call, in code, a nuclear strike..He was called the Bagman , he had to remember the combination for the safe dial that opened the Bag, and stay at all times never more than a few seconds away from the President. within the bag there were various bulky packets, each having wax seals...and the signatures of the Joint Chiefs of Staff...The second contained what appeared to be gaudy pages of close text with what looked like color cartoons..more like horror comics as they had been carefully designed so that any one of Kennedy's three military aides could tell him quickly how many millions of casualties would result from Retaliation Able, Retaliation Baker, Retaliation Charlie, etc...Captain Tazwell Shepard had prepared these, what were called the Doomsday Books.......In one were cryptic numbers which would permit the President to set up a crude hot line to the Prime Minister of the U.K...and France on a four minutes notice.. Gearharts only job was to follow the President ,stick around and lug the "Bag" and of course remember the combinations...He and his ghastly burden were necessary...In Harry Truman's time, the on slot of the Cold War, it would have taken him four hours to think things through, by JFK's watch, it has been reduced to 15 minutes and was shrinking... ...Bishop relates how Gearhart becomes separated from the VIP portion of the motorcade as it raced to Parkland...and after arriving he did not know where the President was nor whom he was..The SS kept him away from the booth where LBJ had been placed...and that Johnson and Gearhart had been separated again, when LBJ raced to Love Field..." Somehow in the flight from the hospital ,the new President had overlooked the Bagman and the Major General Chester V.Clifton, who understood the coded types of retaliation..If at this time the Soviet Union had launched a missile attack , referred to in the DOD ....In Manchester's "Death of a President"....He states the advance man for the Texas trip was Warrant Officer Art Bales (Sturdy) 30yr old vet who new every executive in the Southwest Bell Telephone Co...he could bug any line from the nearest manhole or... conduit , and had all the facilities that enabled him to scramble almost any conversation and disconnect it without notice...The President needed one clear circuit to Washington when he was out of town..at all times..which means that Bales could pull the plug more or less on any Cabinet Member, if necessary...In the motorcades Bales would ride in the Signals control car, and he states by tradition this was the last car in the caravan , and that his companion there would be a swarthy Gearhart..When he tried to get into Minor Medicine where LBJ was waiting but he was unknown to the VPs men and was kept secluded in booth 8...until Emory Roberts saw him and identified him..when leaving Parkland, he had forced himself and his bag into a policeman's lap.....Stoughton took photographs of LBJs swearing in, and though he wished he were elsewhere he dutifully performs his duty, in one of the photos can be seen Gearhart's spectacles, identified by two tiny points of light.. &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& This information below was posted by Ed LeDoux at Lancer.. Thanks Ed.... I have darkened the sentence pertaining to who took turns carrying said football....Rotating Aides...One from each branch of the service.. Per Gil Jesus: "Gen. McHugh, the "Man with the Football", who usually sat in the front seat of the President's limo between the agents was removed and seated further back in the motorcade, as was the President's physician, Admiral Burkley. This was done on the morning of the 22nd at Love Field, just before the motorcade left. In addition, the order of the......................." ---------------------------------------------------------------- From:SURVIVOR’S GUILT / Chapter 11 by Vincent Palamara Among countless other trips (Truman–Johnson), McNally was on the Texas trip, working closely with Chief Warrant Officer Arthur W. Bales, Jr. and Ira Gearhart, a.k.a. “The Bagman” (these two men rode near the end of the motorcade in the White House Signal Corps car). ------------------------------------------------------------------ From: The story about JFK's Bible begins on page 320 of William Manchester's 1967 book THE DEATH OF A PRESIDENT: Godfrey McHugh was beside John Kennedy's coffin, standing rigidly at attention. Ken O'Donnell withdrew to the corridor. O'Brien participated in setting up the ritual which Lyndon Johnson had said Bob Kennedy wanted; then he retreated behind Sarah Hughes. The feeling extended to members of the permanent Presidential staff. Stoughton himself wished he were elsewhere. In his prints two tiny points of light identify the spectacles of Ira Gearhart, but the bagman and his football had to be there; the thermonuclear threat was no respecter of tragedy. Gearhart was alone. The crewmen had quietly retired. Boots Miller of the baggage detail was in the staff cabin with his face averted, cradling in his arms a paper bag containing Jacqueline Kennedy's ruined pillbox hat, and Jim Swindal recoiled down the aisle to Clint Hill's side and pressed his face against Roy Kellerman's broad back. As 26000's pilot the Colonel should have been present. Nobody had known that he took politics seriously. But beneath his Milton Caniff air the dapper Alabaman had idolized John Kennedy. He had not known he could suffer so. He felt as though he had a stone in his chest. It would have taken every Johnson agent to drag him into the stateroom. As he explained afterward, "I just didn't want to be in the picture, I didn't belong to the Lyndon Johnson team. My President was in that box."... --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Apocalypse Soon By Robert S. McNamara In my time as secretary of defense, the commander of the U.S. Strategic Air Command (SAC) carried with him a secure telephone, no matter where he went, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. The telephone of the commander, whose headquarters were in Omaha, Nebraska, was linked to the underground command post of the North American Defense Command, deep inside Cheyenne Mountain, in Colorado, and to the U.S. president, wherever he happened to be. The president always had at hand nuclear release codes in the so-called football, a briefcase carried for the president at all times by a U.S. military officer. ***************** Next post information from Ed Le Doux...... Background: The "Nuclear Football," otherwise known as the President's Emergency Satchel, is a specially-outfitted, black-colored briefcase used by President of the United States to authorize the use of nuclear weapons. While its exact contents and operation are highly classified, several sources have provided details of the bag. It is presumed to hold a secure SATCOM radio and handset, the daily nuclear launch codes known as the "Gold Codes," and the President's Decision Book—the "nuclear playbook" that the President would rely on should a decision to use nuclear weapons be made, based on the Single Integrated Operational Plan. The National Security Agency updates the Gold Codes daily. The playbook is said to contain 75 pages of options, to be used against four primary groups: Russian nuclear forces; conventional military forces; military and political leadership and economic/industrial targets. The options are further divided into Major Attack Options (MAOs), Selected Attack Options (SAOs), and Limited Attack Options (LAOs). With the SATCOM radio and handset, the president can contact the National Command Authority (NCA) and the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD). To make rapid comprehension of the materials easier, the options are described in a heavily summarized format and depicted using simple images. The Football also contains the locations of various bunkers and airborne command-post aircraft, procedures for communicating over civilian networks, and other information useful in a nuclear-emergency situation. The Football is carried by one of the rotating Presidential Aides (one from each of the five service branches), who occasionally is physically attached to the briefcase. This person is a commissioned officer in the U.S. military, pay-grade O-4 or above, who has undergone the nation's most rigorous background check (Yankee White). These officers are required to keep the Football within ready access of the President at all times. Consequently, an aide, Football in hand, is always either standing/walking near the President or riding in Air Force One/Marine One/Motorcade with him. The case itself is a metallic, possibly bullet-proof, modified Zero-Haliburton briefcase which is carried inside of a leather "jacket". The entire package weights approximately 40 pounds (18 kg). A small antenna, presumbaly for the SATCOM radio, protrudes from the bag near the handle. Contrary to popular belief, the "football" is not handcuffed to aides. Rather, carriers employ a black cable that loops around the handle of the bag and the wrist of the aide. The concept of the Football came about in the aftermath of the Cuban Missile Crisis. President John F. Kennedy was concerned that some Soviet commander in Cuba might launch their missiles without authorization from Moscow. After the crisis, Kennedy ordered a review of the U.S. Nuclear Command and Control system. The result was the highly classified National Security Action Memorandum that created "the Football. It has been suggested that the nickname Football was derived from an attack plan codenamed Drop-Kick. On April 24, 1999, President Bill Clinton left NATO's 50th anniversary summit, being held at the Ronald Reagan Building in Washington, D.C.. The carrier and the football were left behind. The aide walked the half-mile back to the White House alone. The integrity of the football and the state of the officer were intact. Similar incidents have occurred with Presidents Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan <1>, and George H. W. Bush <2>. ***************************************** W/H Communication Branch........Gearhart " We were approximately six cars and two Press & Staff busses behind the President....The WHCA Com, Car was around two corners from and not in sight of the President's car... http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=326722 FWIW....... B............

Here you go: Kathy..... B....

************** Thank you Paul, may this be copied and reposted?? A very thoughful and informative article of the times... Another witness to whom Penn Jones gave much credit , for his bravery, was Richard Carr.....who was hounded , threatened, stabbed etc.... a great similarity to Roger Craig....He and his information is still downed ,as they say to this day, as some also still attempt to do so,to Roger... His statments were also confirmed as was Rogers by other witnesses...... As Pilger writes, ""Much of the sequence is already known: what is not known are the answers to a melange of questions that haunt both critics and defenders of the Commission. At random: Why should two-thirds of the eyewitnesses in Dealey Plaza report that shots came from in front of the President, and not from behind as the Commission says? And why were only a small portion of these witnesses interviewed?"" Amazing is it not, that so many of the witnesses information is and has been "interpreted" by others, as meaning, exactly the opposite in some cases , or with a slight twist, as to what they did state....they have been downed, insulted, called liars, etc etc.. No not amazing, simply put, disinformation, and that still continues on a daily basis.....by the manipulators.. Thanks again, well worth a read.... B......

Duncan : In the Hughes film, I do not see a rack on the top....do you ?? On second look, perhaps..? white roof...? In the Hughes frames, thanks...wish I could capture those little devils, from films. There were two men in seemingly similar light jackets, with a cap, I do believe, one seemingly somewhat shorter and younger perhaps than DCM......he took off first and is seen running, below, in front of DCM, going up the embankment..on the left, in both... as DCM appears to ramble along, taking his time..I think the first one running is perhaps whom you have captured...though I do not see a white cap...?? I do think it may very well be, Roger Craig crossing over to the North side.. ? He is seen in Willis and id by Gary Shaw, shown below, running down towards the underpass area, then he did cross over, to the North side, as seen within your Hughes frame, and also moved then up towards the first pegola area...and shown within the photos..... Then he moved eventually back across...to the South side, as he states within his information, and saw the station wagon, and could not get back across..when he also heard the whistle and saw ?? picked up........?? FWITW..Thanks.. B

Hi Peter; I believe the last would be in Wilma Bonds # 8...... I have never found him.. in any photo taken after this... Perhaps someone else has ?? He is seen at the bottom of the steps area, and that is Um seen standing looking up towards Elm & Houston...I believe B.....

Here he can be seen walking west at the time when people were streaming up and across the knoll. Sorry, don't know the photographer. Steve Thomas *********** Thanks Steve..... That is a Towner 3 photograph..see it below in full......I have quite a collection of DCMs movements after the assassination..... He took his own sweet time, it could be said, and slowly walked out of history... I did not want to touch or correct Duke's post...though I should have added the information but did not.... I am pleased that you have clarified this for all..... Thanks.... John Thanks also for adding to the Craig's studies..... B.....

Willis 5..... B......

Hi Stephen: These, I am afraid are not high resolution,perhaps they may serve of some use to you.... B.....

For further studies, for anyone interested in educating themselves re the information on Roger Craig..... Some information.... FYI, below I've posted all(?) of the entries about Roger Craig to be found in, I guess, most places, from Walt Brown's Global Index to the JFK Assassination. Other citations were also found to other people relative to "station wagon," also below). Some general observations about all of this: first, that there seem to be enough "independent" observations of a station wagon or a car that a man was (or men were) seen getting into almost immediately after the shooting that lends credence to the possibility since if there were shooters in the plaza area - including LHO or not - they had to get away from the area somehow, or else they had to blend into the crowd fairly effectively (Mooney's "plainclothes officers like me" being a case in point). I quote "independent" because you sometimes have to wonder how many people - especially those cited by authors - actually saw something, vice how many "remembered" it later after having read about it elsewhere ... not to mention how many people may have made up the story they told! If there were time for DCM to have gone into the parking lot and later driven a car out to pick up a man or men depends upon how long after the shooting the cars/men were seen (e.g., where was DCM at the time of the photo of the Rambler wagon at least partially obscured by the bus?). I've never traced his movements, so have no idea. More to the point is the testimony of James Romack (6H277-84), who came to the WC's attention at about the time James Worrell was leaving (with Robert Jackson, Amos Euins and someone else whose name I've momentarily forgotten) to go to DC to testify. It seems that Romack had been working at a freight terminal behind the TSBD - along with George "Pop" Rackley, Virgie's father (6H273-77)- and had "stationed" himself in a position where he could see the back of the building "at all times." He testified that he was watching the back and side of the building and saw nobody running from it at any time. A couple of caveats to that testimony, however, are that he did, at one point, move from his "station" to remove the barricade on Houston St to allow Sam Pate to get his KBOX radio car out of the road construction zone back there, that being a point in time where his attention was directed away from the TSBD (Sam parked behind the TSBD, and on alighting did see someone running across Houston St from the direction of the SE corner/east side of the TSBD); and also that he was not asked - nor did he volunteer - anything about any vehicles in the area. It is noted that Romack's entire testimony was intended - by his own admission - to discredit the "xxxx" that he thought Worrell was, and so focused mainly if not solely upon someone running from the side entrance. Neither his nor Rackley's testimony, to the best of my offhand recollection, had any discussion about other vehicles or persons in the area. Other citations: For "station wagon" see: James Pennington (p.189 in Kurtz, Crime of the Century) who it is said corroborated Craig's claim of LHO getting into a station wagon, as well as Marvin Robinson (driver on Elm Street who witnessed a man run from the Depository and enter a late model Rambler station wagon (32 in Anson, They've Killed the President; 73-74 in DiEugenio, Destiny Betrayed; 119-120 in Hurt, Reasonable Doubt; 132 in Kurtz, Crime of the Century; 110 in Moscovit, Did Castro Kill Kennedy?; 14 in Shaw and Harris, Cover-Up; 242 in Thompson, Six Seconds in Dallas) and Richard Robinson (motorist who witnessed a man run from the Depository and enter a late model Rambler station wagon; may be the same person as Marvin Robinson, cited above), 387 in North, Act of Treason), Helen Forrest (saw a man run from the rear of the TSBD, down the incline, and get into a Rambler; if not Oswald, his twin, according to Mrs. James Forrest: 132, 135, 221, 225 in Kurtz, Crime of the Century; 110 in Moscovit, Did Castro Kill Kennedy?), Glenn Smith (accountant privy to an "Oswald" gun transaction, had actually driven a Russian-speaking woman three times to 2515 W 5th St, Irving after servicing her station wagon: 352 in Brown, Warren Omission; 357-358 in Meagher, Accessories After the Fact; Warren Commission 26 Volumes: noting that vehicle involved was a 1953 or 1954 Plymouth or Chevrolet station wagon, X, 403; TESTIMONY OF, X, 399-405; House Select Committee 12 Volumes: XII, 286-287). Also(?), Richard Randolph Carr (Dealey Plaza eyewitness, had commanding vantage point in building under construction south of Elm Street: 32 in Anson, They've Killed the President; 395-399 in Brown, People v. Lee Harvey Oswald; 61, 67 in Crenshaw, Conspiracy of Silence; 412 in Davis, Mafia Kingfish; 43, 177-180, 235n, 243n in Garrison, Heritage of Stone; 95-96, 238-239, 281 in Garrison, On the Trail of the Assassins; 121 in Groden and Livingstone, High Treason; 62, 143 in Groden, The Killing of a President; 119-120 in Hurt, Reasonable Doubt; 64, 86, 88 in Jones, Forgive My Grief III; 351-353, 458 in Kirkwood, American Grotesque; 131-132 in Kurtz, Crime of the Century; 21, 318-319 in Marrs, Crossfire; 23 in Menninger, Mortal Error; 387 in North, Act of Treason; 37, 185 in Sample, Men on the Sixth Floor; 12-14, 64, 182 in Shaw and Harris, Cover-Up; 88, 90 in Smith, Second Plot; 241-242, 244, 256 in Thompson, Six Seconds in Dallas; House Select Committee 12 Volumes: XII, 8-9, 22). Craig, Roger, (Sheriff's Deputy standing on Main Street when the shots were fired at JFK's limousine; Craig's place in the narrative is unique, and the authors cited only begin to flesh out his story; as is true in too many cases, this seminal figure in the JFK tragedy died, oddly, very young), 77n, 217 in 179, Anson, They've Killed the President; 495-498, 571, 577 in Brown, People v. Lee Harvey Oswald; 35, 130, 145, 149, 160, 243, 300 in Brown, Treachery in Dallas; 142, 206, 280, 308-309 in Brown, Warren Omission; 189 in Davis, Mafia Kingfish; 74 in DiEugenio, Destiny Betrayed; 95 in Epstein, Inquest; 440-443 in Fensterwald, Coincidence or Conspiracy? 94-96, 98, 194, 202, 204- 205, 239, 273-274, 281, 326-327 in Garrison, On the Trail of the Assassins; 114, 121, 123-124, 161-162 in Groden and Livingstone, High Treason; 62, 64 in Groden, The Killing of a President; 118, 160, 245 in Groden, Search for Lee Harvey Oswald; 348 in Hepburn, Farewell America; 102, 120-121, 123, 125, 400, 413 in Hurt, Reasonable Doubt; 25, 29-31, 33-35, 67, 74 in Jones, Forgive My Grief, I; 15, 29-31, 33-37, 64, 79-80, 86-88, 90, 93 in Jones, Forgive My Grief III; 31, 33, 148-149 in Jones, Forgive My Grief IV; 325-326, 458 in Kirkwood, American Grotesque; 9, 19, 122, 127, 130-133, 195 in Kurtz, Crime of the Century; 18, 96, 98, 173-174, 384 in Lane, Rush to Judgment; 20, 328- 333 in Marrs, Crossfire; xxxvi, 59 in Meagher, Accessories After the Fact; 110-111 in Melanson, Spy Saga; 279-281 in Model and Groden, JFK: Case For Conspiracy; 110, 119, 211, 213 in Moscovit, Did Castro Kill Kennedy? 12, 20 in Palamara, Third Alternative; 90-91, 95, 105, 171, 173 in Popkin, The Second Oswald; 259, 446 in Posner, Case Closed; 212 in Roffman, Presumed Guilty; 347, 351 in Sauvage, Oswald Affair; 37-38, 156 in Scheim, Contract on America; 201 in Scott, ed., Assassinations; Dallas and Beyond; 9, 14-15, 26-29, 70, 88, 99, 144, 161 in Shaw and Harris, Cover-Up; 105, 183 in Sloan, JFK: Last Dissenting Witness; 41, 43-44, 137-138, 158-159, 161, 163, 236, 291 in Smith, Second Plot; 243-244, 256 in Thompson, Six Seconds in Dallas; 498-499 in Trask, Pictures of the Pain; 110, 136-137, 139 in Weisberg, Whitewash II; 168 in Weisberg, Photographic Whitewash; Warren Commission 26 Volumes: IV, 245; XIX, 524; XXIII, 817; XXIV, 23; on Nash Rambler, VI, 266-267; seeing sixth floor cartridges a foot away from the window, VI, 268; Lee Oswald's comment regarding station wagon, VI, 270; on not being remembered on November 22, 1963 by Will Fritz, VII, 404; TESTIMONY OF, VI, 260-273; Warren Commission Report: 160-161, 251-253; House Select Committee 12 Volumes: XII, 6, 17-18. -------------------- Duke Lane http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=6673&st=15 B.........

Thank you John: For this further information.....Will you either be adding this to Roger Craigs on line information page, at the bottom of said page, as you did her first letter, or deleting what you have......? I wish Deanna well ........and peace of mind..... The statement : ""Because Jones made money off my Dad""... Well, Penn would have had something to say...about that I have no doubt...... ......it is obvious she has no knowledge of his circumstances in the self publishing his books..nor the trials he went through to get his information released.... B.......

Thank you Steve, that is very cool, as you say.... The up and coming......way.. B......

If there are not clarifications made, then future discussions with the same confusion will be re-born again. Sometimes its best to address these issues and get through them than to deal with them everywhere else they have spread. I have seen this type of thing go on in the alteration threads a lot ... please feel free to speak-up in the same manner then too. Thanks B I was expecting you to speak up first, and have not been disappointed.....you never do in that regard.. This it seems has been re-born again and perhaps again..and will again ??...and there has been no clarification... I have spoken up in the past...FYI..... So take your eh?? to someone else.......your just barfed because you got suckered in also, but in a much bigger way... you fell in the hole.... Thanks also.... B.....

************* Mark: call it what it is, a Barfing contest..... And just imagine, how some regard all this, such as those who replied at the beginning of this said thread... and went to the trouble to find what they had and posted such...... My, My how they must feel about their doing so now...... Call that what it was also.........Suckered...... Well, perhaps some have also learnt whom not to respond to again when such a request is made... as it was apparently and deliberatley used and planned as a lead in to what has now progressed..... IMO...... B......

Karl...side of what? Many CTs are not exactly enamored with Fetzer's books. Vince Palamara has said he's been swayed by Bugliosi's book, a book most here believe to be dishonest. In chapter 9b at patspeer.com, in fact, I believe I prove it to be dishonest. But trusting Bugliosi on this issue does not make one a fascist. Bugliosi, it should be pointed out, has not only written a book about the illegality of the Supreme Court's appointing Bush president, but has just written a new one declaring President Bush to be a murderer. Hardly the work of a neo-con or neo-fascist. ***************** And Karl: ""Karl...side of what? Many CTs are not exactly enamored with Fetzer's books."" Keep in mind, that is Just Pat's Opinion......... P.S..Thanks for the video links: Vince........But If you have read only a chapter or two, or a page of this book or that, how can you possibly, give a book critique.......Not possible imo.......EXCUSE me Vince...........I played this video a second time, cleaned my ears, and now heard, you are clearly stating how many pages and or chapters you are mentioned in each book. I did not realize that the research has gotten to this extreme point in time, where it is only, all about you...... Even though this is your new video, and you have the right to say whatever you would like. May I ask that you please get off your high horse, and come back down to earth with some of us, and get real again.....Thanks....... B..........

Thx Bill, Do you still have that article research of LHO being seen in that parking lot in a car AFTER "LHO's" arrest at the Tex Theater? I'd like to see that !! Edit: contraction Hey Bill.. Take care... Miles, is it the car, station wagon, that you would like to get a much better shot of....?? I have looked further and did find this, copy, which is Penn's..... and an enlarged but.. FWIW... B...... B