Bernice Moore

Bill could this been Michael Groves at Arlington, seeing he was Captain of the w/h guard he would take the salute wouldn't he...??????? b

your welcome...stay well.......b

yes jack it has always appeared strange, some others older collected fwtaw..thanks .b

THANKS MIKE GOOD POST I DID NOT MEAN TO MUCK UP YOURS IN ANYWAY , NOW BOTH ARE THERE...FWTAW...TAKE CARE..B

SOME ON ROBERT OSWALD...b

MAGGIES DRAWERS.......

http://www.kenrahn.com/Marsh/Jfk-conspiracy/MAGGIE.TXT

MAGGIE'S DRAWERS

The Marksmanship of Lee Harvey Oswald

[Commentary and editing by Alan Rogers]

What follows are selections from three sources on the

shooting ability of LHO. The criteria used for selection is

focused on those who had first hand accounts of seeing Lee Harvey

Oswald shooting a weapon, eschewing those who had much to say

about the subject but had never met Oswald. The first comes from

LHO's brother, Robert. His book shows generally what Robert's

observations and opinions were on the subject.

In the 1990's, Robert has appeared on a few documentaries in

where the clips have him saying that he believes his brother

could have accomplished the shooting. Since this was certainly

not what he said in his book, it seems that he has succumbed to

the same process that influenced many witnesses to the event.

That process bombards the witness with so much opinion and

conjecture, year after year, that their memory is forever tainted

and now cannot be unentangled from what they have considered in

the intervening years. Using Posner's principle of taking the

earlier utterances of the witness as more firmly grounded,

Robert's book predates these on camera interviews by two plus

decades.

In his book, Robert talks about LHO's quick reflexes and

hidden strength, but as seen in the selection, he still cannot

escape admitting that LHO was awkward in shooting at moving

targets when they went field hunting as children. It should also

be noted that Robert was not surprised in the least that LHO shot

so poorly in his Marine career and doesn't shirk from describing

him as a mediocre shooter. Because someone has a history of

hunting from an early age, it is not automatically mandated that

he was a proficient shooter.

http://www.kenrahn.com/Marsh/Jfk-conspiracy/MAGGIE.TXT

Representative Boggs: Have you in your own mind reached any conclusions on whether or not your brother killed President Kennedy?

Mr. Oswald: Based on the circumstantial evidence that has been reported in newspapers and over the radio and television, I would have to say that it appears that he did kill President Kennedy.

Representative Boggs: Would you, having reached that conclusion under the circumstances that you outlined a moment ago, and having known him all of his life, although not too intimately the last year of his life, would you give us any reason for why he may have done this?

Mr. Oswald: No, sir: I could not.

Representative Boggs: It came as, I would think, a great shock to you?

Mr. Oswald: Yes, sir; it certainly did, and I might add that the Lee Harvey Oswald that I knew would not have killed anybody.

BELOW ROBERT IS WITH HIS WIFE VADA AND DAUGHTER KATHY...WITH TOP COAT I BELIEVE COMING OUT OF THE W/C HEARINGS...b

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/P...S/JFK/ford.html

Gerald Ford forced to admit the Warren Report fictionalized

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cited under "fair use".

By MIKE FEINSILBER

The Associated Press

b

http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/JFK/ford.html

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=8920

BELOW SIGNING NIXON'S PARDON AND ALSO WITH CHANY AND RUMSFELD BELOW DOCUMENT MARINA DID EVENTUALLY RECEIVE THE MONEY FROM FORD SELLING LHO'S DIARY ILLEGALLY...

INVESTIGATIVE REPORT GERALD FORD AND THE W/C b

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/washingto...rald_fords.html

Gerald Ford's Terrible Fiction, by George Michael Evica

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...mp;relPageId=33

Pat,

I just doubled checked my facts and I probably stand corrected! I might be confused because I may have inadvertantly combined the "audio" of his interview about his changing the WR wording with the images they were showing simultaneously of the artist's rendering.

Thanks.

GREG HERE ARE SOME CLIPPINGS...

BELOW PHOTO OF FORD GOING THROUGH DEALEY 1976..B

Exclusive: Gerald Ford, JFK and the FBI

Two members of the Warren Commission were initially not convinced that President John F. Kennedy had been shot from the sixth floor window of the Texas Book Depository, according to confidential FBI files released this week to The Post's Joe Stephens.

The files detail the inner workings of a secret back channel that Gerald R. Ford, then a Michigan congressman who was one of seven members of the Warren Commission, opened in 1963 to J. Edgar Hoover's FBI. The declassified FBI memos are among scores of documents in the file on President Ford, who died in December 2006. At the request of The Post, the FBI this week released 500 pages of the bureau's voluminous file.

Although it has long been known that he secretly spoke with the FBI, the newly obtained, previously classified records detail one visit Ford made to one of Hoover's deputies just three weeks after joining the panel.

A December 1963 memo recounts that Ford told FBI Assistant Director Cartha D. DeLoach that two members remained unconvinced that Kennedy had been shot from the sixth floor window of the Texas Book Depository. In addition, three commission members "failed to understand" the trajectory of the slugs, Ford said.

Ford told DeLoach that commission discussions would continue and reassured him that those minority points of view on the commission "of course would represent no problem," one internal FBI memo shows. The memo does not name the members involved and does not elaborate on what Ford meant by "no problem."

Ford also told DeLoach that Chief Justice Earl Warren, who headed the commission, had told its members that "they should strive to have their hearings completed and the findings made public prior to July 1964, when the Presidential campaigns will begin to get hot. He stated it would be unfair to present the findings after July." They missed their deadline, concluding in a report issued on September 24, 1964, that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in the assassination.

Much of the material in the overall FBI file on Ford concerns intelligence about his political adversaries when he was president, especially organizations that the bureau thought might disrupt Ford's appearances around the country. But the file also sheds light on the investigation into Kennedy's assassination and the FBI's relationship with Ford, and shows how the bureau strove to curry favor with powerful politicians.

Another memo in the file, previously released with Warren Commission materials in 1978, details how Ford approached DeLoach in 1963 and offered to secretly inform the bureau about the inner workings of the then-ongoing Warren Commission investigation.

"Ford indicated he would keep me thoroughly advised as to the activities of the Commission," DeLoach wrote. "He stated this would have to be done on a confidential basis, however he thought it should be done."

Five days later, DeLoach had a second meeting with Ford and filed another confidential memo. DeLoach recounted that he "carefully" informed Ford that the FBI had released none of its investigative findings to the media. Instead, he said, it looked as though commission members were beginning to leak portions of the FBI report.

"I referred to this week's issue of 'Newsweek' magazine which contains a rather clear analysis of the report," DeLoach wrote. "I told Congressman Ford that 'Newsweek' was owned by the 'Washington Post' and that apparently some one was trying to curry favor. I told him we, of course, did not get along very well with either the 'Washington Post' or 'Newsweek.' He [said] that he was in the same boat, that he liked neither one of these publications."

The conversation, which has apparently not been previously reported, concluded with Ford saying he would like to take a confidential FBI report on the assassination with him on a family ski trip to Michigan. DeLoach offer to loan him an "Agent briefcase" with a lock, so Ford could safeguard the document.

Elsewhere in the FBI file on Ford, records show that as a young man, in 1942, Ford had applied to become an FBI agent. A background check at the time was favorable, the file says, "except for information that he was an isolationist and active in organizing an American First committee while at Yale University." Ford later withdrew his application.

In 1965, Ford asked FBI technicians to check the phone line at his home in Northern Virginia for tampering; they found none. In another instance, Ford asked the FBI to look into the background of his personal maid; she came up clean.

The FBI file shows Hoover routinely tried to ingratiate himself with Ford by sending him personal notes -- congratulating Ford on his re-election or his winning of an award, offering condolences on the death of Ford's parents, thanking Ford for saying nice things about the bureau on the floor of Congress. There are repeated references in the file to Ford having "enjoyed cordial relations" with the bureau, and notes pointing out that the FBI had named Ford to the bureau's "Special Correspondents List."

One memo notes: "Though we did experience some difficulty with all the members of the Warren Commission, Ford was of considerable help." It points out Ford once requested an 8-by-10-inch photograph of Hoover, although its intended use was unknown.

The intensity with which Hoover's FBI sought to gain favor with those who could later be of use is made clear in one memo written by a subordinate in 1963.

"In view of Congressman Ford's friendly attitude toward the FBI, and the fact that he is a member of the House Appropriations Committee and will probably be reappointed to this Committee in the next session of Congress, it is felt he should be presented a copy of the Director's new book, 'A Study of Communism.' The House Appropriations Committee, of course, is very important to us, and it is felt such a gesture would be very beneficial in connection with our Hill contact program."

Before presenting the book to Ford, the file shows, Hoover autographed it.

In 1964, Ford and his wife, Betty, attended a party at DeLoach's home. The next morning, Hoover followed up with an obsequious note, delivered by special messenger:

"My dear Congressman: I want to let you know how much I enjoyed talking to Mrs. Ford and you during the party at DeLoach's home last night. Particularly, I was very pleased to discuss in this informal manner some vital issues of interest to you as well as the FBI. Let me say that I found your observations to be both helpful and germane. It is always encouraging to know that we have alert, vigorous Congressmen, such as you, who are aware of the needs and problems confronting our country, and I wish you every success in meeting your grave responsibilities.

Whenever you have an opportunity, I would be happy to have Mrs. Ford and you drop by FBI Headquarters for a special tour of our facilities, and of course, I would like you to feel free to call on me any time our help is needed or when we can be of service.

With kind personal regards,

Sincerely yours,

J. Edgar Hoover."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/washingto...rald_fords.html

Bill,

I took the liberty of copying your petition and posting a link here:

http://reopenkennedycase.weebly.com/rkc-news.html

Hey Greg,

Thanks,

And it seems like a network of people are signing on, with a number of well known researchers and writers, thanks to Adele, who got the petition out to many.

I wanted to get over 200 signatures by the end of July but it looks like we will reach that point much earlier, and I'll be able to hand it in earlier.

I also worded it as signed by "citizens of the US and the 'free world'" just so you could sign it.

While I want most to be American citizens, it will be good to see how much widespread support the petition has, and the interest such hearings will have throughout the USA and the world.

It seems like when the foreign interest in Iran declined (with Michael Jackson's assassination), the Iranians got harsher on dissent, but while the world was watching they backed off.

Maybe it will take foreign interest to push this over the top?

I also like what Jeff Morley did by adding his job and location - and encourage others to do the same - in order to show the variety of jobs we have and our locations are all over the USA and globe.

Thanks to everyone who has signed on so far, as it shows how, despite all our differences, we all want the JFK Act to work.

Bill Kelly

Doing great Bill.......i noticed mois name not showing,from signing some time back, but then it says if you posted your email ad it does not show, but going to the petition, it does ask for your email ad...?? thanks b

Bill,

I took the liberty of copying your petition and posting a link here:

http://reopenkennedycase.weebly.com/rkc-news.html

Hey Greg,

Thanks,

And it seems like a network of people are signing on, with a number of well known researchers and writers, thanks to Adele, who got the petition out to many.

I wanted to get over 200 signatures by the end of July but it looks like we will reach that point much earlier, and I'll be able to hand it in earlier.

I also worded it as signed by "citizens of the US and the 'free world'" just so you could sign it.

While I want most to be American citizens, it will be good to see how much widespread support the petition has, and the interest such hearings will have throughout the USA and the world.

It seems like when the foreign interest in Iran declined (with Michael Jackson's assassination), the Iranians got harsher on dissent, but while the world was watching they backed off.

Maybe it will take foreign interest to push this over the top?

I also like what Jeff Morley did by adding his job and location - and encourage others to do the same - in order to show the variety of jobs we have and our locations are all over the USA and globe.

Thanks to everyone who has signed on so far, as it shows how, despite all our differences, we all want the JFK Act to work.

Bill Kelly

Doing great Bill.......i noticed mois name not showing,from signing some time back, but then i says if you posted your email ad it does not show, but going to the petition, it does ask for your email ad...?? thanks b

The interview is 100% genuine. It is NOT from the JFK movie.

I obtained the complete CBS programme with all of the interviews with an assortment of witnesses, including Arnold Rowland, a few years ago, from another researcher which cost me $35.http

Bernice gave me the name of the researcher, who I contacted, but who's name escapes me at the moment. see above for link...b

Some of these interviews, including Rowland's can be seen on the home page of my forum, and many more can be viwed in the " Video and Audio" section.

Click HERE to go to JFK Assassination Forum

I am the source of these videos which have all been uploaded to my Youtube channel.

Click HERE to visit my Youtube Channel

OK. So, when was the interview made? What's the date of the interview? Year, month, day. Day, month, year.

I can't help you there, John.

It was shown in 1967, and the interviewer is Eddie Barker.

Duncan...Here is the site link that we got the information tapes from

http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~ahmintz/index.htm

..

his name ia Aaron Mintz, a very pleasant kind gentleman....b

duncan it may have been from this site, with a but... fyi....b.. http://www.otrcat.com/john-kennedy-p-1453.html

P aul i see where your coming from with his fedora his face is hidden but keep in mind he immediately told the dpd as they tackled him to the ground that they all knew him and told them his name..also he admitted he shot lho, i do not see any problems with Mercer's story either...b

here are a few photos b..

arnold rowland..b

Bernice,

The man in the picture in your post is Tom Alyea in November of 1964, not Arnold Rowland.

Todd

Todd is correct. The video where the still originated cab be found at the link below.

Click HERE to view Tom Alyea talking about the assassination.

Thanks todd and duncan no idea where that one came from here is another of Aylea..apologys to him...b..

Bernice...that is not the drain in question. The Brazil storm drain was at the curb near

the bottom of the steps.

Jack

Storm Drain images on Lancer.

http://www.jfklancer.com/draintn.html

thanks robin, but if i am recalling correctly those were taken many years later..when a few of the fellas from lancer did a study ,.Jack do you recall when...thanks..b

Bernice...that is not the drain in question. The Brazil storm drain was at the curb near

the bottom of the steps.

Jack

THANKS JACK FOR THE BOOT IT'S THIS ONE.i did i hope post one of these earlier in the thread...i will check..but as you can see from the photo of him taken behind the fence he did consider such....best b

pat i think what perhaps ter was getting at as a woman, that cigdem had the opportunity and took it to post and clarify all, instead perhaps deliberately perhaps not, i do not know, but it appears she has thrown more onto the fire, a clear simple

explanation was required, she has chosen not to do so, but it appears she has thrown in another implication...that perhaps and it will and has in somes eyes, only makes the matter worse by doing so...as they sometimes say, it is time to xxxxe or get off the pot..no more befuddled posts,this has gone on way too long now, imo... i think Peter deserves after all this, a clear explanation...and as you have surmized if that is what happened between he and Andy then i think Andy needs to say so clearly...see it's easy for you and or others to surmize , but you are not and have not been put in Peter's shoes...ta b..

Thanks B.,

Are there any references to Groves in those posts? I scanned them and didn't see any.

If Groves was in charge of the honor guard for JFK's funeral, he must be in the photos?

Which one is he?

And are there any other published references to Groves directing the funeral?

Thanks,

BK

there were references by name i checked each photo but none were titled, yes he must be in the photos that is what i was mainly after but have not found any with names listed not even at the jfk museum, perhaps in some of the coffee table books, could be......will keep him in mind, thanks very interesting material...best b

Maybe we posted at the same moment and it was some kind of buffer clash, I don't know. What I was going to post was in reference to a small part of the account. It's a bit off topic and focusing on the mapping of the sewer system seems to me more important for now.

There's one point which is a bit puzzling, (I actually expected to read something like that at some point). The statement is about the bricks and rubble encountered and the intent to return and deal with it. The account then seems to skip this matter.

Otherwise, it's obvious there was/is an extensive human sized underground connecting system (interesting reference to weather as concern) and the failed attempt to get the actual DP mapping, even though noted as existing, is interesting. Seems to me there's a lot more (under) ground to cover in this matter.

(I'd like to also note the reference to a body found in the river a few days after the assassination, referred to in another post)

thanks john, yes there are a very may questions in regard to the drains etc within dealey that we have no answers for, i do wish though it probably has been done by some in dallas in the past seeking out a copy of the map and info in regards to all of this but the dallas brick wall is well known and very little if any comes our way, shame that but things are the way they are and we have no control...i have wondered in the past and did do a sort of search but not deep into, the questions, how many familys up and moved within certain areas in dallas the next weekend and how many bodies turned doa the weekend of nov 22.63 within the city limits or extending to fort worth also, but i found nothing solid in anyway...yes the bricks and rumble is another left in limbo...take care..b the photo below showing the possible trajectory from the north drain was by lee forman, thanks...also the other is from the north side...

arnold rowland..b

http://www.whitehousehistory.org/whha_publ...ehistory_19.pdf

the jfk white huse honour guard,,b

http://www.blackopradio.com/JFK%20Chronology%202.pdf

Nov.22, 1963 .

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/jfk.htm

arlington information of the funeral of JFK.

approaching the grave the honour guard...b

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/mdgroves.htm

Irish honour guard at jfk funeral...videos They were the first foreign Army to be the Honour Guard for a US Presidential funeral .

washington honour guard..

b

Changed to normal text for legibility:

Now as Len had posted in Peter's long thread, the woman, and that was single not plural as Len had once posted by mistake, had sent him an email that it was all a misunderstanding..no email sexual harassment ever took place..none.ever!!!!!!!!!!.....Len did post that information but it also is gone now, so I wanted to make sure that point is made very clear she has taken back any accusation she made as a mistake, and seeing that Len has chosen not to repost that info as yet, I choose to make sure it has been in this thread....thanks b

B. you’re confusing me with Andy Walker. He told Peter in a PM (or e-mail) that multiple women complained about him. Peter who repeatedly insisted that private communications should not be posted without the author’s permission hypocritically post that PM on the DPF. Maggida and/or Jack repeated that info here. It was also Andy who received the retraction from the woman and posted it here. Peter also claimed to have received such a retraction. I think the retraction was made under duress (see above)

While I agree his posts should be restored and his IP unblocked Peter should either remain banned or be allowed back under moderation. I lean towards the former but admit I’m biased.

thank you len for the clarification, yes i was in error, as you say not you, then Andy...i shall go and make the corrections...b

CORRECTIONS HAVE BEEN MADE....

PETER HAS SEEN THE THREAD AND HAS ASKED THAT THIS NOTE BE POSTED...THANKS...

''Unlike JSs inuendo, I never asked for my posts to be taken down, and have privately asked for them to be reinstated - not so much for me; but for history and the truth we all strive to achieve. It is like what was done in the USSR when someone had fallen from political 'grace' they'd be airbrushed out of the old photos. Don't airbrush/censor history of this forum and the history of JFK and many other important issues on which I posted....PLEASE! Peter Lemkin.