David Von Pein

GARRY PUFFER SAID: I'm tired of hearing this lie told by James Humes and commonly repeated by nearly everyone that Humes did not find out about the throat wound until Saturday, Absolutely not true. Here is a statement from Dr. Robert Livingston about a call he made to Bethesda from Parkland on the evening of Nov. 22: "...the Officer on Duty put me through to speak directly with Dr Humes who was waiting to perform the autopsy. After introductions, we began a pleasant conversation. He told me that he had not heard much about the reporting from Dallas and from the Parkland Hospital. I told him that the reason for my making such a...call was to stress that the Parkland Hospital physicians' examination of President Kennedy revealed what they reported to be a small wound in the neck, closely adjacent to and to the right of the trachea. I explained that I had knowledge from the literature on high-velocity wound ballistics research, in addition to considerable personal combat experience examining and repairing bullet and shrapnel wounds. I was confident that a small wound of that sort had to be a wound of entrance and that if it were a wound of exit, it would almost certainly be widely blown out, with cruciate or otherwise wide, tearing outward ruptures of the underlying tissues and skin. I stressed to Dr. Humes how important it was that the autopsy pathologists carefully examine the President's neck to characterize that particular wound and to distinguish it from the neighboring tracheotomy wound." DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Garry, Do you actually believe that Dr. Humes was told before the autopsy (in some detail) about the bullet hole in JFK's throat, but then Humes just totally ignored that information when it came time to perform the autopsy? In a word --- Nonsense. GARRY PUFFER SAID: Of course I believe it, and you know very well why the wound was not examined. Do you actually believe Dr. Humes did not tell any lies concerning the autopsy? In a word, nonsense, David. I don't think he liked doing it, but a military doctor does what he's told to do. DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Let's see what Dr. Humes told the Warren Commission (emphasis added by DVP)..... Commander HUMES -- "We were able to ascertain with absolute certainty that the bullet had passed by the apical portion of the right lung producing the injury which we mentioned. I did not at that point have the information from Doctor Perry about the wound in the anterior neck, and while that was a possible explanation for the point of exit, we also had to consider the possibility that the missile in some rather inexplicable fashion had been stopped in its path through the President's body and, in fact, then had fallen from the body onto the stretcher." Mr. SPECTER -- "And what theory did you think possible, at that juncture, to explain the passing of the bullet back out the point of entry; or had you been provided with the fact that external heart massage had been performed on the President?" Commander HUMES -- "Yes, sir; we had, and we considered the possibility that some of the physical maneuvering performed by the doctors might have in some way caused this event to take place." Mr. SPECTER -- "Now, have you since discounted that possibility, Doctor Humes?" Commander HUMES -- "Yes; in essence we have. When examining the wounds in the base of the President's neck anteriorly, the region of the tracheotomy performed at Parkland Hospital, we noted and we noted in our record, some contusion and bruising of the muscles of the neck of the President. We noted that at the time of the postmortem examination." GARRY PUFFER SAID: God, David, stop with the WC testimony to "prove" anything. So much of the testimony is false, and you know this. Humes had been telling his lie for so long by the time he faced the WC, it probably seemed like the truth to him. Sorry, I'll put my money on Dr. Livingston, who had no reason to lie, against Dr. Humes, who had every reason to lie and did just that. DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Let's have a look at how reliable good old Dr. Livingston is..... From Vince Bugliosi's book....

We sure did. And you just simply IGNORED the File Locator Number. Plus, the "bleed thru" thing has also been explained in a non-sinister fashion. I suppose you have totally ignored that fact too. Because, you see, that's who Jim DiEugenio is. He's a conspiracy zealot and he doesn't care if things have been explained in reasonable non-conspiratorial ways or not.

jfk-archives/LHO Getting To The Post Office jfk-archives/The Misaligned Rifle Scope jfk-archives/Isolating Evidence, Including The "Dented Lip" jfk-archives/Wallets (Part 1) jfk-archives/Oswald's Motive jfk-archives/The Backyard Photos jfk-archives/Oswald's "Patsy" Lie jfk-archives/"Deer In The Headlights"

And that goes for Cole in 1964 and then McNally in 1978, right? Do you think McNally decided, on his own, to continue the alleged "cover-up" concerning the money order 14 years later? Hilarious. If you and John Armstrong can't figure out the answer to that "$12.78" thing, then I feel sorry for both of you. And we've been through this before (in one of the many "Money Order" threads on this forum). Excerpt.... JIM HARGROVE SAID: Warren Commission loyalists want us to believe that this uncashed, unendorsed money order is legitimate proof of purchase by “A. Hidell” of a rifle that was shipped to Hidell via a Dallas P.O. Box under the name of “Oswald,” contrary to U.S. postal regulations, for a price of… well… first it was $12.78 for a rifle without a scope as pointed out by dozens of American dailies for nearly a week after the assassination. As one example of many, a Nov. 23 article by the New York Times wire service, picked up in daily newspapers in many cities, including the Nov. 24 Salt Lake Tribune, reported the following: “Handwriting, analyzed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in Washington as Oswald's on an assumed-name order to a Chicago mail order house last March 20 for a $12.78 rifle, similar to the assassination weapon.” When the saga of Dial Ryder and the scope didn't pan out, the FBI apparently lost all its reports of a $12.78 rifle without a scope. But, like magic, "Oswald's handwriting" suddenly appeared on a new and improved money order, this time for $21.45 for a rifle with a scope. A magic money order to purchase a magic rifle that shot magic bullets. It was truly an age of miracles! DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Jim, There's no "magic" or "miracles" of any kind involved here at all. And there's no sinister or underhanded cover-up involved either. The reason why the media was reporting the $12.78 cost for the rifle (sans the scope) was quite simple --- they were simply referring to the Klein's ads that were currently running in various magazines in November of 1963. Between the time Oswald ordered his rifle in March '63 and the time of the assassination eight months later, the price of the Italian carbine (without the scope attached) in the Klein's advertisements had decreased by 10 cents, from $12.88 to $12.78. And it's highly unlikely that any of the people in the press still had ready access to any Klein's magazine ads from eight or nine months earlier. So they were merely reporting on the CURRENT price of the gun in their TV and newspaper reports, without bothering to factor in the proper "With Scope" price. Big deal. And even Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry told reporters on 11/23/63: "I believe the gun was supposed to cost twelve dollars and seventy-eight cents, I believe. I believe it was advertised in some magazine for that." As for any "new and improved money order, this time for $21.45 for a rifle with a scope" --- that's a lot of baloney too, because as early as 11/23/63, we find documentation showing that a money order that was definitely handled by Klein's Sporting Goods AND the First National Bank of Chicago in the amount of $21.45 was recovered at the Federal Records Center in Alexandria, Virginia, on the night of November 23rd, the day after the assassination. This documentation is all laid out in a goodly amount of detail in Commission Document #75 and Commission Document #87. So, Jim Hargrove, do you think that the FBI and Secret Service reports that appear in CD75 and CD87 are phony documents of some kind? And do you think that a money order in the amount of $21.45 was NOT actually found at the Records Center in Alexandria at all?

Just search through WC Volume 16, Sandy. There are tons of samples of Oswald's writing here: http://history-matters.com/archive/contents/wc/contents_wh16.htm

How soon DiEugenio forgets. Or, to put it more accurately, How Soon DiEugenio TOTALLY IGNORES The Proof That The Money Order Is Genuine.... Click Here....

The above statement is nothing but an outright falsehood. The Warren Commission and the FBI and the Treasury Department in 1964 and the HSCA's handwriting experts in 1978 examined the original money order, not just a copy or a photograph of the money order.... WC.... MELVIN EISENBERG -- "Mr. Cole, I now hand you an item consisting of a U.S. postal money order in the amount of $21.45, payable to Klein's Sporting Goods, from "A. Hidell, P.O. Box 2915, Dallas, Texas." For the record I will state that this money order was included with the purchase order in Exhibit 773 which has just been identified, and was intended and used as payment for the weapon shipped in response to the purchase order, 773. I ask you, Mr. Cole, whether you have examined this money order for the purpose of determining whether it was prepared by the author of the standards?" ALWYN COLE -- "Yes, sir." MR. EISENBERG -- "What was your conclusion, Mr. Cole?" MR. COLE -- "It is my conclusion that the handwriting on this money order is in the hand of the person who executed the standard writing [i.e., Lee Harvey Oswald]." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ HSCA.... MR. KLEIN -- "Did the panel reach a conclusion with respect to those documents?" MR. McNALLY -- "They did." MR. KLEIN -- "What was that conclusion?" MR. McNALLY -- "That JFK exhibit F-504 and F-509 were written by the same person, again with the caveat. JFK exhibit F-504 is a photo reproduction of a microfilm." MR. KLEIN -- "The document, which is marked F-509, the money order, is an original document; is it not?" MR. McNALLY -- "It was; yes." MR. KLEIN -- "And your conclusion is they were written by the same person who wrote the other documents?" MR. McNALLY -- "That is right."

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2ERm-cucsE0R0N6Snl4dFVnbmM

Another "FYI" Addendum.... E-Mail From: Gary Mack To: David Von Pein Date: 2/14/2013 7:48:12 PM EST From The Sixth Floor Museum's index of the original WBAP tapes is this description (written by a former WBAP staffer who digitized them). I have no evidence to contradict his summary: 16. 2:43 pm WBAP's David Daniel interrupts for word from Dallas Police of the arrest of "a 24-year-old man, Lee H. Oswald" in connection with the shooting of Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit. He's being questioned to see if he has any connection with JFK assassination. "Oswald was pulled screaming and yelling" from the Texas Theater in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas. After a pistol is taken from him during a scuffle, he's quoted as saying, "It's all over now." I must have overlooked an EST reference, for which I apologize. Gary Mack DAVID VON PEIN SAID: I can definitely confirm, via minute-by-minute timestamping of my collection of WBAP-Radio material [available HERE], that Gary Mack's 2013 e-mail concerning the 2:43 PM CST time of David Daniel's radio report about Oswald is precisely accurate---to the exact minute. I've extracted that news bulletin from my WBAP archives, and it can be heard HERE.

Addendum.... FYI.... As for the CBS and NBC television networks, the first time that Oswald's name is spoken over the air on CBS-TV came at 2:59 PM Dallas Time (3:59 PM EST) on November 22nd, when anchorman Walter Cronkite said that the man the Dallas police had in custody after a fight in the Texas Theater was named "Leo H. Oswald" [go to 2:29:15 in this CBS video]. Interestingly, Walter Cronkite's error regarding Lee Harvey Oswald's name wouldn't be the last time that Walter mangled Oswald's name on the air that weekend in 1963. In two other separate reports aired on the weekend of the assassination, Cronkite misspoke again when saying LHO's name, telling the TV audience in one of those reports that the alleged assassin's name was "Lee Henry Oswald"; while in another report, Mr. Cronkite said the suspect's name was "Lee Harvey Osburn". As far as the NBC-TV assassination coverage is concerned, the first time we hear the name Lee Oswald occurs at roughly 3:20 PM Central Time on 11/22/63 [at the 2:30:50 mark in this video], when newsman Charles Murphy of NBC's Dallas/Fort Worth affiliate WBAP-TV says this on the network: "Homicide detective Leavelle told WBAP newsman James Kerr in Dallas a few minutes ago they have little doubt that 24-year-old Lee Oswald of Dallas is the man who shot and killed Dallas police officer J.D. Tippit shortly after President Kennedy was shot to death this afternoon. Oswald was pulled screaming and shouting from the Texas Theater by officers who had gone there on a tip that Oswald was there. He brandished a pistol which officers took away from him after a struggle. Oswald was quoted as saying, "It's all over now." .... The coincidence in the case is that Oswald worked as a stockman at the Texas Book Depository, the building from which the sniper shot President Kennedy. Dallas police have declined to say whether they think Oswald is connected with the assassination." jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2016/07/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1156.html

And, less than 24 hours after the tragedy, the conspiracy theories begin.... https://app.box.com/s/qm437wm0hpawaktupphufrfquz6ugcbt

Why in the world would you think something like that, Ron? Have you been talking to Ralph Cinque again? ----> Click Here.

Looks like a lone gunman after all....

Online news stories concerning the mass shootings in Dallas, Texas, on the night of July 7, 2016, which took the lives of five police officers: http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/08/us/philando-castile-alton-sterling-protests/index.html http://beta.dallasnews.com/news/news/2016/07/07/hundreds-expected-downtown-dallas-rally-following-shooting-deaths-alton-sterling-philando-castile?_ga=1.196498412.1914450426.1467989488 http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/protests-spawn-cities-across-u-s-over-police-shootings-black-n605686

(Removed link. Admin) That's a nice tacky and disgusting comment there. So was Steven Skeen's. The moderators should delete both of them. Totally tactless.

Well, Tom, I guess you could conceivably be correct when you said this -- "If there was bleed thru on the document...we would never know by looking at the two “clean” appearing high-contrast document photos you’ve written about" -- but when looking at a side-by-side comparison (below) between the FBI photo and Commission Exhibit 788, I have a hard time believing that NONE of the obvious bleed-thru that can be seen in CE788 (particularly the bleeding through of the "March 12" post office stamp in the corner) would be visible in the FBI's photograph of that same document if the bleed-thru had actually been present on the money order at the time the FBI picture was taken. But as we can see, not a trace of any "bleed thru" can be seen on the back side of the Postal Money Order in the FBI photo: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BTW, Tom, as I pointed out on my webpage devoted to this topic, the picture in Cadigan #11 was definitely taken before the money order was treated for fingerprint analysis: MR. EISENBERG -- "Are the photographs which you produced photographs of the items before they were treated for fingerprints or after?" MR. CADIGAN -- "Yes; before they were treated for fingerprints. In other words, it is regular customary practice to photograph an exhibit before it is treated for latents for exactly this reason, that in the course of the treatment there may be some loss of detail, either total or partial."

But the "138" in Cadigan No. 11 is just as dim. In fact, it looks a little dimmer in Cadigan 11....

A "Bleed-Thru" Addendum.... In addition to Cadigan Exhibit No. 11 — the significance of which was demonstrated on December 5, 2015, by Tim Brennan at another JFK forum — I found another "clean" photo of the Hidell Postal Money Order today (June 2, 2016) while reading the 12/9/63 FBI report on the assassination (Commission Document No. 1). The picture of the money order in the FBI report can be seen HERE (and also below). The money order shows no signs at all of any "bleed thru" on either the front side or the back side, and is a picture that must have been taken prior to the document being chemically processed for fingerprints (just like Cadigan Exhibit No. 11). Click to enlarge: jfk-archives.blogspot.com / The Hidell Money Order

Thanks for the post, Joe. Here's the direct link/video. I added the photos....

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2016/04/jfk-assassination-westinghouse.html jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2016/05/jfk-interview-april-10-1961.html

Lipsey in 2013 ----> https://app.box.com/s/t1n5dhbi0i9yiqd9lsmf

Wow. That's scary. Check my edit above (which I posted before seeing your post).

Count me as another person who does it, too. In addition to using Notepad or Word Pad, many times I'll write my longer forum posts as a temporary post at one of my Blogger blogs (a private one) where the "Auto Save" feature kicks in every 10 seconds, which makes it impossible to lose a post due to a glitch or a power failure. How many of you have lost a really long post because the power suddenly goes off? That really ticks me off when that happens, which is way too often. (What is it about the Hoosier state that makes the electricity go out constantly? I've never figured out that mystery. I think it could be a conspiracy, though. The ghost of Jim Garrison keeps coming into my house and playing around with the fuse box.)

OK. Thanks for the reply, Pat.

Oh, yes. I definitely have. I read all of Humes' ARRB testimony when I was arguing a few years ago with John Canal about his unique theories regarding JFK's head wounds. But it's been a while since I read that testimony. I haven't memorized it. I'll go refresh my memory on it now. Thanks. -------------------------- EDIT---- Here's what Dr. James J. Humes said in his 1996 ARRB testimony about probing/dissecting the neck wound (emphasis is my own): QUESTION: Did you ever receive any orders or instructions about limiting the scope of the examination of the brain? DR. HUMES: Never. QUESTION: Did you receive any instructions or orders regarding limitations on dissection of the organs of the neck? DR. HUMES: No. .... My problem is, very simply stated, we had an entrance wound high in the posterior back above the scapula. We didn't know where the exit wound was at that point. I'd be the first one to admit it. We knew in general in the past that we should have been more prescient than we were, I must confess, because when we removed the breast plate and examined the thoracic cavity, we saw a contusion on the upper lobe of the lung. There was no defect in the pleura anyplace. So it's obvious that the missile had gone over that top of the lung. Of course, the more I thought about it, the more I realized it had to go out from the neck. It was the only place it could go, after it was not found anywhere in the X-rays. So early the next morning, I called Parkland Hospital and talked with Malcolm Perry, I guess it was. And he said, Oh, yeah, there was a wound right in the middle of the neck by the tie, and we used that for the tracheotomy. Well, they obliterated, literally obliterated--when we went back to the photographs, we thought we might have seen some indication of the edge of that wound in the gaping skin where the--but it wouldn't make a great deal of sense to go slashing open the neck. What would we learn? Nothing, you know. So I didn't--I don't know if anybody said don't do this or don't do that. I wouldn't have done it no matter what anybody said. That was not important. I mean, that's-- QUESTION: Do you know what the standard autopsy protocol is for gunshot wounds and autopsy of the neck? DR. HUMES: Well, no. I haven't seen that in--what you say, standard, I mean, many times if you have a track of a missile, it's helpful to take a long probe and put it in the position. It can tell you a lot of things. If you know where the point of entrance and the point of exit are, it's duck soup. But for me to start probing around in this man's neck, all I would make was false passages. There wouldn't be any track that I could put a probe through or anything of that nature. It just doesn't work that way.