David Von Pein

Here's yet another interesting twist to the Paul Landis bullet story. In this video below (from Sept. 11, 2023), Clint Hill says that Landis told him in 2014 that he (Landis) put the whole bullet on a stretcher "in the hallway" of Parkland Hospital, vs. putting it on Kennedy's gurney (or exam table), which is what Landis is now saying in 2023.

Neither Glen Bennett nor any other person who witnessed the assassination as it was happening in real time in Dealey Plaza could have possibly known the precise location of the entry hole in JFK's back. It's beyond silly to think that any human being, in those "as it was happening" circumstances, could have discerned such a microscopic detail about the precise location of a tiny bullet hole.

A reminder for anyone who might be interested in what the HSCA said about the "Lovelady in Doorway" matter: [HSCA Quote On:] "Based on an assessment of the facial features, the anthropologists determined that the man in the doorway bore a much stronger resemblance to Lovelady than to Oswald. In addition, the photographic analysis of the shirt in the photograph established that it corresponded more closely with the shirt worn that day by Lovelady. Based on these analyses, the committee concluded that it was highly improbable that the man in the doorway was Oswald and highly probable that he was Lovelady. The committee's belief that the man in the doorway was Lovelady was also supported by an interview with Lovelady in which he affirmed to committee investigators that he was the man in the photograph." -- HSCA Final Report; Page 58 ---------------------------------------- Related Link: http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/01/doorway-man.html

I downloaded this very high-quality version of Altgens #6 a few years back (click to enlarge to 2560 px.): More HQ Altgens here: http://kennedy-photos.blogspot.com/2012/06/kennedy-gallery-037.html

Here's a clearer version (click to enlarge):

EXCERPT FROM VINCENT BUGLIOSI'S BOOK (RE: DOUG HORNE'S INSANE "TWO BRAINS" THEORY) Also See: http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/doug-horne-part-1.html

Vince Bugliosi passed away in 2015, Michael.

After having just now [on October 13, 2023] read the key "bullet" portions of Paul Landis' newly-released book "The Final Witness" (via the book excerpts that have been made available on this webpage [thanks, Tom Gram, for posting the link]), some additional problems and questions arise, with one of these problems being a massively important one regarding the precise location of where Landis says he left the whole bullet that he says he found on the top of the back seat in the Presidential limo. All of the available testimony from the Parkland Hospital personnel makes it clear that President Kennedy was never moved from his stretcher (gurney) during the entire time the President was being treated in Trauma Room No. 1. Former Secret Service agent Paul Landis, however, says something completely different in his book. He says this (quoting from the book itself): "As I entered—or, more to the point, was pushed into—the trauma room, the president’s lifeless body was already being lifted off the gurney and placed onto a white cotton blanket that covered the surface of a stainless-steel examination table in the middle of the room." [End Quote.] Landis then goes on to say this in his book: "I removed the bullet from my pocket, and reaching out over the examination table, I carefully placed it on the white cotton blanket next to the president’s left shoe." [End Quote.] But let's now compare the above book excerpt with the following statement made by the same Mr. Landis just one month ago: "I put the bullet on the gurney right by his [JFK's] feet" -- Paul Landis; September 12, 2023 (NBC Interview) So the question of great importance now becomes: Did Landis drop the bullet onto JFK's stretcher/"gurney"? Or did he leave it on an "examination table"? That's an exceedingly important question to answer, because if we're to believe he left it on an exam table instead of the stretcher (with a stretcher, of course, having wheels on it, which means it could easily be moved from one part of the hospital to another), we've then got to ask: How, then, did that bullet (if it was really CE399, which Mr. Landis does seem to think it was) manage to get from the exam table to a stretcher in the corridor of Parkland Hospital, where it was then found by hospital employee Darrell C. Tomlinson a short time later? Another possible problem with Landis' story crops up in the book excerpts linked above, although this "problem" isn't nearly as important or imperative as the "gurney vs. exam table" head-scratcher. This additional problem concerns the timing of Vice President Johnson's arrival at Parkland Hospital on 11/22/63. Landis says in his book that LBJ and the Vice President's Secret Service car had not yet arrived at Parkland Hospital by the time JFK's body was being lifted out of the back seat and onto a stretcher. Quoting again from Mr. Landis' book: "The vice president’s limo had yet to arrive, so there were no agents from his detail in sight. In fact, there were no other agents in sight anywhere to the rear, to my right, or to the front. Where are they? Where the hell is SA Greer? He was driving the president’s limo. He should be here. The follow-up car was empty too. Where the hell is Special Agent Sam Kinney? He was driving it. Jeez, oh man! Where the hell is everyone? Where did all the agents go? Who is going to secure the car AND THE CRIME SCENE? Everyone seemed to be crowded around the president’s body. No one was paying attention to anything else. My immediate concern was the bullet. It would be visible to anyone happening to walk by. What about photographers? Or worse yet, What about a souvenir hunter? Thoughts continued to race through my mind." [End Quote.] But with regard to Vice President Lyndon Johnson and his exact whereabouts at the time when President Kennedy was being wheeled into the hospital, there is evidence (via the observations of ambulance driver Aubrey Rike) which would indicate that Johnson actually entered Parkland Hospital prior to the time when either JFK or wounded Governor John Connally entered the emergency room entrance. Listen to the chronology of events provided by Aubrey Rike, in two separate interviews he did on November 22, 1963, HERE. If Rike's chronology of the timing for when each man entered the hospital is correct --- i.e., Johnson, then Connally, then Kennedy --- that would, in my opinion, place a serious cloud of doubt over Mr. Landis' account (and his mindset) concerning those same events. Because if LBJ's car and his Secret Service follow-up car were actually there at the hospital prior to Landis and JFK and Mrs. Kennedy exiting the limo and going into the emergency room, it would also mean that Mr. Landis would very likely have had no reason to say this to himself --- "Where did all the agents go? Who is going to secure the car AND THE CRIME SCENE?" --- because there would have still been plenty of SS agents there at Parkland to look after the limousine/"crime scene". So with each passing glance at Paul Landis' new 2023 story regarding the events of November 22nd, more and more questions (and doubts) seem to surface.

Here's the recent interview that Larry Schnapf & Jeff Morley did with James Robenalt. Not really much of anything new revealed here that we hadn't heard in prior interviews. I was hoping to hear more details about how Paul Landis has attempted to explain the contradictory info that appears in the newspaper interviews that Landis did back in the '80s, in which Landis claimed to have found a bullet "fragment" that he then "gave to somebody". But there's not a single word spoken by Robenalt in this recent interview about those contradictions. And neither Schnapf nor Morley even asked about it.* * 10/21/2023 EDIT ---- And this full-length version of the interview (which is 10 minutes longer than the edited one below) also doesn't say a word about Landis' contradictory 1983 and 1988 newspaper interviews, despite the fact that Larry Schnapf said on October 14, 2023 (via a JFK e-mail group), that he did, in fact, ask Robenalt specifically about those '80s statements during this interview. ~shrug~

But it's very obvious from the verbiage found in the 12/9/63 FBI Report that the FBI (incredibly) didn't even glance at the autopsy report until at least the middle of January 1964. More here.... http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/12-9-63-fbi-report.html

Thanks, Greg, for your detailed explanation of why you think Lee Harvey Oswald just might have had a desire to go back inside the Book Depository Building after the assassination (even though, via the "Prayer Man Is Oswald" theory, he was already outside when the shooting occurred). You, of course, surely already know all the problems with your scenario which has Oswald possibly going back inside the building in order to get his "gray" jacket. The main problem there, of course, being that Earlene Roberts said that when Oswald came rushing into the Beckley roominghouse shortly after the assassination, he was not wearing any jacket. In her Warren Commission testimony, Mrs. Roberts said: "He [LHO] went to his room and he was in his shirt sleeves but I couldn't tell you whether it was a long-sleeved shirt or what color it was or nothing, and he got a jacket and put it on---it was kind of a zipper jacket." And there's also the testimony of Mary Bledsoe, who saw Oswald during the brief time when both she and Lee were on Cecil McWatters' bus on Elm Street on Nov. 22. Bledsoe is clearly a witness who aligns with Earlene Roberts' observations of Oswald not wearing any jacket between the hours of 12:30 PM and 1:00 PM CST on 11/22/63. You can always resort to using cab driver William Whaley to support a proposed claim that Oswald was, indeed, wearing a jacket of some kind just after he left the TSBD. You can even utilize Whaley to try and support the very weird idea that Oswald was wearing a total of "two jackets" when he was riding next to Whaley in his taxicab on Nov. 22. But if you choose to use Whaley's testimony, you'll then have to wonder why neither of those other witnesses (Bledsoe and Roberts) saw the jacket(s) that Mr. Whaley said he saw Oswald wearing. ~shrug~ Another one of your "possibilities" (to potentially explain why LHO would want to go back into the TSBD after the shooting) is based on something that is unquestionably a lie that was told by Lee Oswald --- the "curtain rods" story. So Oswald, quite obviously, could not possibly have wanted to go back into the Depository to retrieve any curtain rods, since those "rods" only existed in Oswald's made-up story that he fabricated for Buell Wesley Frazier's benefit. I, of course, have an advantage over conspiracy theorists like Gregory Doudna, in that I don't need to concoct all kinds of cloak-and-dagger scenarios to explain Lee Oswald's behavior on November 22nd. And that's because I'm confident of the following fact (beyond all reasonable doubt):

Another man's opinion of the ole curmudgeon: http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/10/harold-weisberg.html

As a follow-up to my last post above.... For the sake of fairness and "Equal Time" with respect to reviews for Bart Kamp's "Prayer Man" book, here's a link to Greg Doudna's Amazon review of that same book:

Below are some highlights from this book review of Bart Kamp's new book. The review was written by former EF Forum member Lance Payette.... Review Title: "Well-meaning and worthwhile presentation of patent nonsense" Review Highlights: "Bart Kamp is a serious and well-meaning JFK assassination researcher who is a fixture at the Reopen the Kennedy Case forum, where the overarching theme is that LEE HARVEY OSWALD WAS COMPLETELY INNOCENT!!! [...] There is an initial mental hurdle you must overcome to find this book fascinating and worthwhile. It must make sense to you that Oswald, the designated patsy whose rifle would be found on the sixth floor of the TSBD, was nevertheless allowed by the bumbling conspirators to be standing on the steps of the TSBD at the time of the assassination. [...] I can conceive of no possible conspiracy scenario this side of "Reptilian aliens did it!!!" that would have allowed Oswald to be standing on the steps of the TSBD at the time of the assassination. Nope, sorry, I regard Prayer Man as utter and self-evident nonsense. That being said, I emphasize again that Mr. Kamp is a serious assassination enthusiast whose Prayer Man website is a veritable goldmine of documents and information even if you regard Prayer Man as nonsense. Ditto for this book. It is chock-full of worthwhile information and links regardless of your perspective on Prayer Man. I give it 4 stars for sheer effort. I am constantly agog at some of the wild and wacky notions that seemingly sane and intelligent conspiracy enthusiasts manage to compartmentalize in their otherwise sane and intelligent minds, and this book also serves as a good illustration of why I am constantly agog." -- Lance B. Payette; August 4, 2023

Greg, I think your made-up scenario of Oswald going back into the TSBD after the shooting is totally ludicrous. You've got him going up and down stairs and then out the back door for no really good reason (IMO). Via your scenario, Oswald was ALREADY OUTSIDE THE BUILDING (on the steps, I assume? Or do you have him INSIDE the building, on the 1st floor, at 12:30? You seem to imply that it could have been either). But in either case, why would he possibly want to take a circuitous UP-AND-DOWN route via the two staircases just in order to get outside?! It's incredibly silly. It's especially ridiculous from the standpoint of Oswald being INVOLVED (in at least SOME peripheral fashion) in a plot to kill JFK, because via such an involvement, Oswald would have no doubt wanted to get away from the scene of the crime as fast as he could....and since he was ALREADY OUTSIDE (if you think he is Prayer Man) or (alternatively) very near the FRONT DOOR on the 1st floor (if you think he took the SE stairs, which are practically right next to the FRONT entrance)....then why the heck wouldn't he just walk out the FRONT DOOR? Plus, via your scenario, going back INTO the building itself (via the Prayer Man theory) would be mighty risky from LHO's POV too, because he would certainly have to think that the whole building was going to be sealed off very quickly after the shooting by the police (and it was, at about 12:37). So why would he have the slightest desire to go back into the building at all? And I can't see why he would feel that leaving via the front entrance and being seen by somebody would look any worse (or be any more suspicious) than leaving by the back door. In fact, I can easily argue the opposite---that leaving by the BACK DOOR would look way more "suspicious" to anyone who might catch a glimpse of him than simply walking out the front door and exiting Dealey Plaza. Sneaking out the back way is always a little more "fishy"-looking to most people, isn't it? In fact, aren't there many CTers who DO believe that one or more of the "real killers" of Kennedy did, indeed, sneak out the back door of the loading dock in order to make their getaway on 11/22? I'd advise you to try again, Greg. Because your scenario of having Oswald going up and down the various stairs just in order to get out of the building is just laughable. But, Greg, I do appreciate all the time and effort you have been putting into your very well-written posts in this thread over the last few days. I've enjoyed reading them. But this latest bit about Oswald's totally superfluous post-assassination escapade within the Book Depository is just not the slightest bit believable (IMO) and, frankly, reeks of CTer desperation.

The key point isn't really the specific "lunch" aspect of any of Oswald's lies. (And maybe Oswald himself was having a hard time keeping his "lunch" lies straight after he was arrested.) But the most important point, IMO, is the chronology of the "Coke/Lunchroom Encounter" and "Out front with Shelley" aspects of Oswald's attempted alibi. And whether you choose to believe Bookhout, Fritz, and Hosty or not, the fact remains that those three men (Bookhout, Fritz, & Hosty) did write things down in their notes and/or reports that definitely give the impression that OSWALD HIMSELF said he followed this chronology at around 12:30 on Nov. 22: 1. Coke/Lunchroom Encounter with Officer Baker. 2. Then down to 1st floor to have lunch. 3. Then outside with Bill Shelley. ----------------- Plus: Can anyone who believes that Oswald is the "Prayer Man" figure really and truly also believe that Oswald then decided he wanted to immediately go back into the TSBD Building and dash up to the second-floor lunchroom to buy a Coke within seconds of JFK being shot out on Elm Street in front of the building? That scenario of Oswald being Prayer Man and then immediately having a burning desire to go get a Coca-Cola on the second floor is a very loony scenario, if you ask me. But for the conspiracy theorists who wholly endorse the "Oswald Is Prayer Man" theory, then they really have no choice but to believe such an absurd scenario. Because we know for a fact that Lee Harvey Oswald was in that 2nd-floor lunchroom with Officer Baker just a few minutes after the assassination took place.* * Notwithstanding the many CTers who now belong to the INHAA club.

Off-Topic (but worth it).... Funny YouTube video from several years ago. (Does YouTube still make these very clever "April Fools" videos anymore?) .....

Yes, I do. And that's because this chronology.... 1. Coke/Lunchroom Encounter with Officer Baker. 2. Then down to 1st floor to have lunch. 3. Then outside with Bill Shelley. ....is confirmed (or at least it is present and exists) in THREE different places within the reports or notes written by the various officials: 1. Captain Fritz' notes --- HERE. 2. James Bookhout's solo 11/22/63 FBI report --- HERE. 3. James Hosty's recently-discovered notes --- HERE. In Hosty's notes, however, he doesn't say anything about "Shelley". He, instead, says Oswald went outside to watch the "P. Parade". But, IMO, Hosty is, in effect, conflating "Shelley" and "P. Parade". But in any event, Hosty, just like Fritz and Bookhout, has Oswald going outside only after the "Coke" and the "Lunch on 1st floor". And Hosty, in his notes, doesn't mention the encounter Oswald had with Baker either. But there's no indication in the existing records and reports that Oswald ever said anything about going to the second floor TWO times to get a Coke on Nov. 22. So, IMO, Hosty's "went to 2nd floor to get Coca-Cola" is essentially the same thing as also referring to the encounter between LHO and Baker. And as "absurd" as it might be to think that anyone would want to go and eat his lunch after having such an encounter with a police officer (at gunpoint) and after discovering that the President had just been shot right outside the front door of your workplace, we also have to realize that such a chronology was being provided by the person to whom all of the evidence in the assassination leads---Lee H. Oswald. In other words, Oswald's absurd and crazy chronology was all just one big fat lie being told by the actual assassin of President Kennedy (except for the Lunchroom Encounter with Officer Baker, of course, which actually did occur and wasn't just one of Oswald's made-up tall tales).

Even though I don't believe for one second that "Prayer Man" is Lee Harvey Oswald, I still would very much like to see the original versions of the Darnell and Wiegman films, and I'd very much like to have those films enhanced and restored to the best possible quality. I certainly think that any such project, if a definitive "Is it Oswald or isn't it?" identification of the Prayer Man figure can be obtained, will prove very disappointing to the people who keep insisting that the blurry Prayer Man figure has got to be Lee Oswald. But I certainly am not against such a project taking place. Not in the least. As I've said before, I'm all for it.

Greg, You're severely overstating (i.e., misstating) Lee Harvey Oswald's alleged "alibi". Oswald never once said he was outside on the front steps of the Book Depository Building at the time when President Kennedy was being shot. When Oswald told Captain Fritz that he was "out with Bill Shelley in front", Oswald was clearly indicating to Fritz that he had only gone "out" of the building AFTER he had already had his encounter with Police Officer Marrion Baker in the second-floor lunchroom, which was an encounter that occurred, of course, after the assassination had already taken place. (See James W. Bookhout's 11/22/63 FBI report—HERE—for verification of the chronology of Captain Fritz' sketchy "out with Bill Shelley in front" note.) The key words in Bookhout's report, chronology-wise, are these words: "He thereafter went outside..." And the more-recent discovery of James Hosty's "went outside to watch P. Parade" notes—discussed in detail HERE—have also been mischaracterized by conspiracists (IMO), because the basic chronology of those Hosty notes is identical to Bookhout's report, with Oswald (per the Hosty notes) only going outside after he had gone to the second floor to get a Coke....and we know the "Coke" excursion coincided with Oswald's encounter with Marrion Baker, which was AFTER the assassination, not DURING the assassination. FWIW.... With regard to the identity of "Prayer Man", I'll re-post the following comments made two years ago by someone whose presence on the Depository front steps on November 22nd is not disputed by even the most hardened of conspiracy theorists: "To answer the question about Prayer Man: I have been looking at this all day, and I can tell you this: I 100% have no idea who that person is. I can also tell you 100% that is not Lee Harvey Oswald. First, Lee was not out there. I know that to be true. Second, for anyone who thinks Prayer Man is Lee, the individual has a much larger frame than Lee." -- Buell Wesley Frazier; March 28, 2021 Also See: http://DVP's JFK Archives/"Prayer Man" Discussion

He's now saying (starting in 2023) that he saw THREE bullet items --- a whole bullet on top of the back seat, plus two smaller fragments lying in a pool of blood on the back seat itself.