Richard Hocking

Here is a crop from another William Allen photo from a slightly different angle Top of the bottle visible in this photo. Who was drinking a soda in that corner a short time before the police arrived?

Below is a crop from one of the William Allen photos: Can't tell if it is a Coke bottle, Dr. Pepper or other. Not sure who left it there, but the location is interesting. Looks like there may be a bag or some other item in front of the bottom of the bottle. There is another William Allen photo that shows a portion of the bottle from a different angle.

Sean, was any reason given for blocking the discussion? I am curious now if there are other topics that have been blocked. Richard, No, it's as if the topic doesn't exist. On the (very) rare occasions Prayer Man does get a passing mention, it is strictly in the context of a Cinque-focused discussion. The policy is clear: force an association of Prayer Man with Cinque's nonsense. The editors of Pravda ca. 1975 would have been proud of McAdams's performance. Ahhhh yes. Makes sense from a Mockingbird point of view. With heightened attention focused on the JFK 50th, best not to let a morsel of Prayerman slip out for the public to digest.

Sean, was any reason given for blocking the discussion? I am curious now if there are other topics that have been blocked.

JFK visited the Gettysburg battlefield on March 1, 1963. Below, JFK, Jackie and their guide. http://www.gettysburgdaily.com/?p=11469 … on November 19, 1963, John F. Kennedy, had to turn down a request to speak at the 100th anniversary of the Gettysburg Address. He was needed to fly down to Texas to help mediate a political dispute and then take part in appearances in Dallas with Vice President Lyndon Johnson on November 22, 1963. Kennedy did send a special statement to Gettysburg for the event, which ended with this phrase: “On this solemn occasion let us all rededicate ourselves to the perpetuation of those ideals of which Lincoln spoke so luminously. As Americans, we can do no less.” http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2013/11/the-lost-presidential-speech-made-at-the-gettysburg-address-anniversary/ … that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain – that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom – and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. - Abraham Lincoln, November 19, 1863

Over the course of this thread, several posters have commented on Prayerman's girth. As a reminder to all, there is a woman standing on a lower step in front of PM. Her back and head obscure the left side of PM below his raised left elbow. We cannot see the boundary of the shirt on that side. Combine that with both PM's raised elbows drawing the shirt away from the trunk of the body... gauging his width is difficult.

Some excellent quotes, John. I have seen numerous variations of the one I bold-faced, similar to a quote from Teddy Roosevelt: "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed."

Sean, as part of this scenario (last line bold-faced above), there is an issue which needs to be addressed. The back walls of each elevator were 3/4 walls, with a wire mesh on the remaining 1/4 to the roof. Both elevators were in a single, open air shaft. There was no barrier between them. This means occupants in one elevator could look into the shaft and see the other elevator. Truly certainly would have observed the descending East elevator passing them as the West elevator was ascending. In fact, it would also be difficult for Baker not to have noticed. I am not saying this could not have happened, but rather that the narrative needs to be expanded to encompass this information. It would also imply that Truly and Baker omitted a rather important detail from their testimony. FWIW, there are similar issues to be addressed concerning the elevators movements in the WC version which has the two men going up the stairs.

With the 50th anniversary just a few days away, there should be numerous forum members in Dallas. I have a request for anyone who will be visiting the TSBD (Sixth Floor Museum), and would consider taking a few moments to help out (will require a tape measure): I am still looking to verify three measurements in the TSBD Entrance. They are: 1. step riser height of the top step 2. porch floor to ceiling height 3. depth of the porch in front of the door (distance from door to first step) Would be very grateful to any samaritan willing to assist. Edit: Alternately (if you do not have a tape measure handy), have someone take a picture of yourself standing in the top NW corner of the entrance (backed into the corner). That combined with your height would be a decent ballpark measurement.

Bjørn, I have an analogous view regarding the activities on the 6th floor preceding and during the shooting sequence. The witness testimony supports the notion that these men in the windows wanted to be seen by the crowd on the streets below. The mechanics wanted witnesses to identify the SE corner window on the 6th floor as the location of the sniper. The purpose of their antics was to attract the attention of observers below; and in the process distract their focus away from the real shooters. The reality is trained sniper teams do not advertise their selected firing locations. Nor would an expert sniper stick the barrel of his rifle out of a window to be noted by a large crowd of witnesses. I do not, however, rule out one or more shots from another location in the TSBD, probably from a window on the West side of the building. One key to a West window shooter would be the actions of the signal-men standing by the Stemmons Freeway sign. Shooters concealed in the Dal-Tex building, behind the fence on the knoll, or on the South knoll would have relatively unimpeded views of the Limo as it traveled down Houston, turned, and advanced into the Kill zone on Elm. They could watch the progress of the target and anticipate the timing of their shots. Not so, for a shooter in the West window of the TSBD, who would not see the Limo until it had actually cleared the corner of the building. The notification of a West window shooter is solved by the pumping of the umbrella by TUM, signaling the Limo's immediate approach. The raised clenched fist of DCM was an additional sign to the shooters (and the driver) that the Limo would be slowing/stopping at the pre-designated position. The angle of a shot from the West Window also fits with the bullet trajectory causing Connally's wounds. Moving on to the discussion of the departure of the men from the 6th/5th floor, and the use of the freight elevators: This topic is joined at the hip with the activity of Jack Dougherty. Jack is notable for showing no interest in viewing the motorcade, preferring instead to end his lunch break early and get back to work. To say this arouses suspicion would be an understatement. Jack is stationed "10 feet from the elevator" on the 5th floor when the shots are fired. In Sean's scenario, Dougherty then takes the stairs down to the first floor, while the shooters take the East elevator down. Would it not be equally plausible for Jack to take the men down in the East elevator himself? It was, after all, an old-fashioned freight elevator that required someone to operate the lever from the inside, something that may not have been first-hand knowledge to men who were unfamiliar with the building. Overall, I think there is more to be taken into account concerning the elevators, and I will hopefully be raising some issues in future posts, but I will leave it here for now.

Good ears, Richard: it does sound like the last words are indeed "or out". However I'm not sure about "inside". Can't for the life of me work out what it is, but it sounds like "In the st[???] or out". Or possibly: "Either st[???] or out". Not 100% positive, but "in the side" or "inside" are my best takes. Putting that reply in context might help to decipher it. Here is the exchange again with more of the previous conversation included: Note: ... now indicates a pause. ?xxxxxxx? is for indistinct words or phrases. HSCA: Was there anyone on the steps ... you didn't recognize? Lovelady: Nope. HSCA: Were the people who were on the steps people from the School Book Depository? Lovelady: Employees ... Texas School Book ... different sections HSCA: Do you recall ...... the people who were on there? Lovelady: ?Let's see? ... there was Wesley Frazier, uhh Bill Shelley, Sarah Stanton, and some other ladies that uh worked upstairs HSCA: Allright ... Do you recall which step you were on? Lovelady: I was sitting on the first step ... and uh .. ?Stanton? on the second or third step ... ?mumbling? ... on the first platform HSCA: Allright ... Did you see, see Lee Oswald around the steps? Lovelady: NO ... HSCA: at any time ... HSCA: Could he - Would it have been possible from where you were sitting eating your lunch, that he could have been there and you didn't see him? Lovelady: Could have ... HSCA (interrupting): OK Lovelady (continuing): ?inside? or out. The "inside or out" makes more sense when we take into account that Billy had just said he was sitting on the first step. "Inside" would be referring to the vestibule on the inside of the outer entrance door. Recall that Carolyn Arnold had testified she saw Oswald there minutes before the assassination. Lovelady may have been hedging a bit here. The primary significance of the reply remains that Billy would not exclude the possibility that Oswald may have been there behind him. edit: Corrected "top step" to "first step"

Sean wrote: “ … Yes, it is interesting that Lovelady is categorical that he didn't see Oswald "at any time" on the front steps but refuses to rule out the possibility that he may have been there at some point. I've listened over and over to his indistinct words following "Could have" but just can't make them out. Frustrating. Interesting also that the HSCA interviewer asks Lovelady if he was holding his lunch bag at the actual time of the shooting. Again, one has to wonder is the question prompted by the interviewer's being aware of the Prayer Man figure who is clearly holding something in his hand or hands. What really makes the interviewer's hypothetical about "two figures in that doorway at the same time" remarkable is that he locates these two figures precisely as per the configuration seen in Wiegman: 1. Lovelady-resembling male standing way over on the left/west side of the entrance area 2. Lovealdy-resembling male standing more towards the centre of the entrance area. What are the odds against this being a lucky guess? Robert Groden was in the room but was he in the loop on the Prayer Man question?” Having spent far too much time using software to tweak the bass, treble, pitch, and playback speed settings, I finally stumbled into a combination that rendered the indistinct portions of the conversation intelligible. Below is my latest, and hopefully final, transcription of the exchange discussed above: … HSCA: Did you see- see Lee Oswald around the steps? Lovelady: NO, at any time. HSCA: Could he - Would it have been possible from where you were sitting eating your lunch, that he could have been there and you didn't see him? Lovelady: Could have - HSCA (interrupting): OK Lovelady (continuing): inside or out. Billy Lovelady has confirmed the observation made previously in this thread, that Prayer Man could have joined the group on the Entrance steps unnoticed by most, as their attention was focused on the Limo with the President and Jackie approaching. Saying he did not see him does not exclude the reality of PM standing behind the group in the NW upper corner. While most of the group on the lower steps and in front may not have noticed PM, I believe that Frazier, Shelley and possibly one or two others near the top steps did. Regarding Robert Groden, the same thought passed through my mind. He may have noticed PM, but his attention would have been focused primarily on the question of establishing Oswald or Lovelady as Doorman in the Altgen’s photo. Last night, I scanned through Groden’s “Case for Conspiracy” DVD. (1988 version). There is no mention of the figure in the NW corner of the entrance.

Robert wrote: "There most definitely is a jump in the Towner film. It shows up in the frame preceding the black "squiggle" that prevents us from seeing JFK. This Youtube slow motion gif shows it quite nicely. Judging by how far JFK moves for each frame, in this frame by frame gif, itappears that precisely one frame has been removed from the Towner film". Thanks for the link Robert. I have since done some web surfing on the Towner film. The splice in the film has indeed been discussed on several internet venues. As you said above, the consensus appears to be that one frame is missing, which would explain the "jump". Have you been able to correlate the Towner splice with the melted frames in the Hughes film?

Richard, These gifs from the Hughes film may explain some of the movements on the steps which are not evident in the Towner film. Bjørn Thanks, Bjørn. Is it just me, or does the Towner film have a "jump" in it?

A startling discovery. Well done, Sean. Bearing in mind that one of the tasks assigned to the HSCA photo panel was to examine the Altgen's photo and develop convincing evidence to identify the man in the doorway who bore a strong resemblance to Lee Oswald, it seems likely they would have studied all available film and photos of the entrance for the time frame just before and just after Altgens snapped his shot. That means the panel should have looked at the Couch film, Weigman, Darnell, Towner, in addition to Martin. And they would have been looking at originals, or very good copies. (Perhaps someone with more knowledge in this area could pitch in). The questions posed to Lovelady hint strongly that, at the very least, one or more of the panel members were aware of the figure in the upper NW corner of the entrance. It had to be more than idle speculation. Going back to the question posed to Billy Lovelady: HSCA: Okay, alright. If it showed two figures in that doorway at the same time, and you could positively identify one as yourself, would that have any bearing on your identification of that other figure? LOVELADY: No, that’s still me at the left [of the] doorway. Unfortunately, Billy did not answer the question posed concerning the implications of identifying "that other figure". And puzzling that the logical followup question was not asked. I can only guess the mission was carefully defined to ID Lovelady (and not open up any larger issues). Listening to the recordings, there was another exchange on the first tape that also caught my attention. After establishing Lovelady's position on the entrance steps, some key elements of the following exchange are shown below: HSCA: Did you see Lee Oswald on the steps? Lovelady: No HSCA: "Would it have been possible from where you were sitting .. that he could have been there ...? Lovelady: "He Could have ..." Lovelady had the chance, but declined to rule out the possibility that Oswald could have been there at the entrance. This exchange is around 25:25 in the first tape. There are a few indistinct words designated by the ... if someone has better ears than mine.

Sean, Have you ever seen any usable frames from the Tina Towner film of the TSBD entrance? She was standing just across Elm street at the intersection when her camera pans by the TSBD. The copies I have reviewed are too poor resolution to show details. The original might show figures in the entrance 15-30 seconds before Couch, Weigman, and Darnell take their shots. This is the best copy I've seen, Richard. Some funny movement in the Lovelady area. Click to enlarge: Far better than the copies I have been viewing. Lovelady appears to be turning. Do you think it is possible someone is taking pictures with a flash? Trying to figure out what the "flashing" is inside the entrance. The rest of the crowd looks static by comparison.

Sean, Have you ever seen any usable frames from the Tina Towner film of the TSBD entrance? She was standing just across Elm street at the intersection when her camera pans by the TSBD. The copies I have reviewed are too poor resolution to show details. The original might show figures in the entrance 15-30 seconds before Couch, Weigman, and Darnell take their shots.

David, While watching "JFK: The Final Hours" last night, I noticed that Wesley Frazier made a revealing remark about the morning of Nov 22. I cannot quote verbatim, but BWF said he was running late that morning. He usually tried to leave home at 7:20 but did not leave until 7:30 that day. That would explain LHO arriving while Wesley was still getting ready. There was at least one other day when Lee likely went over to Wesley's home, which we can glean from Marina's testimony regarding Monday, October 28: ... Mrs. OSWALD. It seems--it seems that he had overslept and that someone else had picked him up. But, no--no, I remember that he did not come to get him, but Lee met him near his house. Lee told me that. Or his sister. I don't remember. Lee told me about it. But I have forgotten. Mr. RANKIN. But he did not go in by bus that day? Mrs. OSWALD. No. He said his sister drove him to the bus. I only know that this boy did not come to get him that day. Mr. RANKIN. As far as you know, he may have gone all the way into Dallas in a car, or he may have gone in a bus? Mrs. OSWALD. Perhaps he hadn't told him to pick him up on that day. I don't know. I only know the fact that the boy did not pick him up on that day Below, Frazier answers Ball's question how it usually worked: Mr. Ball. Did you say usually you had to go by and pick him up? Mr. Frazier. Well, I said I had a couple of times. Most of the time, you know, he was usually walking down the sidewalk as I was driving out of the driveway so, therefore, I didn't have to go up to the house there to pick him up. I just usually picked him up around the corner because he was usually on the sidewalk and I just stopped and picked him up. My records show Lee riding to work with Frazier probably 5 times. Two times Lee went to the Randle home. The other times, Frazier either picked him up as Lee was walking toward the house or at the Paine residence. Remember, It was only 300' or so between the two houses. Lee could walk that distance in well under one minute. The exact location of the "pickup" was random, as opposed to being an established process. Overall though, I agree with you that we need to weigh Wesley and Linnie's statements very carefully.

More from Linnie Mae on Oswald's clothing the morning of the 22nd. Recall the affidavit from Nov 22 (posted above) in which she describes LHO wearing a "light brown or tan shirt". Months later, in her WC testimony, Mr. Ball and Linnie Mae revisit the clothing issue. Linnie Mae has added a gray jacket. Mr. Ball produces CE 150 for Linnie to identify. She fails to do so: (begin excerpt) ... Mr. BALL. 163. I will show you another shirt which is Commission No. 150. Does this look anything like the shirt he had on? Mrs. RANDLE. Well now, I don't remember it being that shade of brown. It could have been but I was looking through the screen and out the window but I don't remember it being exactly that. I thought it was a solid color.

Another witness and another description of the shirt that Oswald wore to work on November 22. Linnie Mae Randle affidavit describes the shirt that Lee Oswald was wearing when he arrived for his ride to work with Wesley Frazier that morning: "... Lee was bareheaded, wearing a light brown or tan shirt. I don't remember what kind of trousers he had on. "

Sean, Who was the source for the claim that Oswald had applied for the job at the ALLRIGHT PARKING SYSTEM? In a Jerry Rose article, http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=48743&relPageId=14 the manager of ALLRIGHT does not recall Oswald ever applying there. This hints at the possibility of Fred participating in a second Oswald ruse. The same article also states that there are no timesheets showing Fred Kaiser working at the TSBD in November. Yet he claims Nov 21 as his last day of employment. A slight whiff of decaying fish odor here. One of the items confiscated from Oswald's room by DPD was a map of Dallas that had several locations circled. Oswald allegedly claimed in his interrogation that the circled items were selected as possible employment opportunities during his job search. If the map is available, it would be interesting to see if ALLRIGHT PARKING was circled.

There is a legible pdf copy of it in the Weisberg Collection: http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/R%20Disk/Red%20Roses%20From%20Texas/Item%2001.pdf

Why would they waste time examining "off the wall" theories? Perhaps the producers felt compelled to allocate more airtime to the most bizarre theories of all -- the "Lone Nut Theory" and the "Single Bullet Theory topping the list.

good find on the brown shirt David. Tommy, as to why the shirt might be important, below is a sample of Mary Bledsoe's WC testimony: ... Mrs. BLEDSOE - And, after we got past Akard, at Murphy---I figured it out. Let's see. I don't know for sure. Oswald got on. He looks like a maniac. His sleeve was out here [indicating]. His shirt was undone. ... Mr. BALL - It was unraveled? Mrs. BLEDSOE - Was a hole in it, hole, and he was dirty ... Mr. BALL - Now, what color shirt did he have on? Mrs. BLEDSOE - He had a brown shirt. ... Mrs. BLEDSOE - Hole in his sleeve right here [indicating]. Mr. BALL - Which is the elbow of the sleeve? That is, you pointed to the elbow? Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, it is. Mr. BALL - And that would be which elbow, right or left elbow? Mrs. BLEDSOE - Right. ... Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; all the buttons torn off. ... For a wealth of details about Bledsoe and Bus 1213, do a search on Bus 1213 in this forum.

Tommy, regarding a couple comments in your post: "... Oswald didn't have enough time to change his clothes, and it's hard to imagine them getting dirty in order-filling his job, anyway, unless he was moving boxes around." The floor laying crew had been laying new plywood, pounding hammers for days on the floors of an old warehouse. That tells me that the floors they were working on and the floors below the pounding would have been covered with dust and debris knocked loose from the floors and ceiling below. It is not difficult to envision everything on the the 5th and 6th floors covered with a film of dust and dirt. Regarding Marina's testimony she mentions more than once that she last saw LHO in a dark room before he went to work. "Mr. Rankin. Do you recall which of the pants he was wearing on the morning of November 22, 1963? Mrs. Oswald. I think the gray ones, but I am not sure, because it was dark in the room, and I paid no attention to what pants he put on." ... "Mrs. Oswald. The thing is that I saw Lee in the room, and I didn't see him getting dressed in the room. That is why it is difficult for me to say. But I told him to put on something warm on the way to work." So, Marina sees Lee in a dark room and does not witness him getting dressed, and then he leaves. This relates back to a previous item I posted about judging hues and colors in various lighting conditions. Personally, I do not have a high degree of confidence in Marina's thoughts about what color shirt Lee had on in that dark room. Especially when one shirt is brown and another is dark with a "reddish" hue. Back to Prayer Man. No one said the shirt was buttoned all the way to the top. PM could have the top 2 buttons undone and I doubt more than a sliver of the low hanging T-shirt would have been visible in that photo taken some 65-75 feet away. Food for thought.