Richard Hocking

... with a dab of poetic misinformation. He takes various shots at the critical community, then jumps into the arena himself, spilling his own reputation in the process.

"... Those who, after almost five decades, contend that some information was withheld from the commission, or that it did not follow matters to the point of certainty, even if true, have not been able effectively to show that these alleged deficiencies could have affected the conclusion. ..." Really? Perhaps Mr. Mosk could discuss Mexico City, and how that supports the WC. 50 years later the coverup continues.

So far I've seen that shirt described as "light brown," "brown," and "tan." None of those colors are "reddish." --Tommy Depends on the shade, Tommy. We are drifting into the realm of hues, and color perception by different observers. A shirt color can appear one shade in bright sunlight, and a different shade in artificial light. I have a pair of sneakers that are bluish-gray. Another family member says they are plain blue Just my .02.

Yup. He is still there in the corner of the porch, Sean. As the 50th approaches, the visible interest in Prayer Man still appears to be limited to a few Internet Forums. Hopefully, he will receive some long overdue exposure in the conferences taking place next month. From the Just Wondering Department: If Prayer Man is Oswald, shouldn't we be able to see some of his white T-shirt? Yes, I realize that Prayer Man was standing in the shadows, but still.....? --Tommy Tommy, Looking at the photos of LHO above, his wide-neck T-shirt is hanging low, below his clavicle. With the shirt buttoned up, it could be that very little, if any of the T-shirt is visible from the angle of the photograph. On another message board, it has been suggested that Prayer Man was buttoning up his shirt. Another possibility for what PM was doing with his hands.

Yup. He is still there in the corner of the porch, Sean. As the 50th approaches, the visible interest in Prayer Man still appears to be limited to a few Internet Forums. Hopefully, he will receive some long overdue exposure in the conferences taking place next month.

Agree with your observation Ken. "Lake Region" could be applied to large portions of the state. Lacking other informative details though, I would speculate that the Upper Portion of the lower peninsula is the most likely candidate for Lemay's cabin. The biggest lakes are found there, and the north woods surrounding the lakes are a prime hunting destination for hunters from the bigger cities in the southern portion of the state. Regarding Wiarton, Ontario, it would be an odd choice for a departure site, because it is so remote on the other side of Lake Huron. There were however, two SAC bases in Michigan in 1963. Kincheloe Air Force Base was at the eastern tip of the upper peninsula, not far from the Mackinac bridge. It would have been reasonably close to a northern Michigan cabin. If the cabin were farther south, Selfridge AFB, north of Detroit may have been closer.

Jesus, the JCS were insane. Survivable nuclear war with the soviets? If they were so set on that course of action, why then, didn't they push for it after JFK was killed? If they were in control they could have done as they pleased. Am I missing something here? Excellent question, Chuck. If, as your question suggests, JFK were the only, or the primary impediment preventing the JCS from initiating nuclear war, why did they not pursue that path after JFK had been removed? The post assassination course of events, in particular the failure to directly engage the Soviet Union or Cuba in hostilities, suggest that the JCS were obviously not at the top of the decision making food chain. So, it's what JFK's past record meant to the future, and the future for the JCS and their masters meant the defense money to be made in Vietnam, and the proprietary military cordoning off of the Laotian opium from the Chinese. Spot on, David. The highest level sponsors of the assassination were thinking long term. A large scale confrontation was short-sighted compared to the immense profits which could be generated by long term control of the SE Asian drug pipeline and an on-going armaments production industry running at warp speed. The last 50 years have been a testament to, and verification of this strategy.

Jesus, the JCS were insane. Survivable nuclear war with the soviets? If they were so set on that course of action, why then, didn't they push for it after JFK was killed? If they were in control they could have done as they pleased. Am I missing something here? Excellent question, Chuck. If, as your question suggests, JFK were the only, or the primary impediment preventing the JCS from initiating nuclear war, why did they not pursue that path after JFK had been removed? The post assassination course of events, in particular the failure to directly engage the Soviet Union or Cuba in hostilities, suggest that the JCS were obviously not at the top of the decision making food chain.

No doubt the employees minds were preoccupied with shots being fired as they went back inside the building. Couple that with the fact that LHO was a recently hired, quiet guy who did not draw attention to himself. Regarding the porch width, the bolded portion of your quote above may give us a good clue. The porch appears narrow in the vestibule photo, but it would make sense to have the door width no greater than the depth of the porch. They may have been nearly the same. Commercial door widths were commonly 36 to 44".

Bjørn, I believe the graphic you posted of the first floor is distorted lengthwise. The length of the TSBD appears greater than the width. It should be square. I think the floor plan measures 100 x 100. This makes the porch appear larger than it actually is. I would guess it is closer to 3' than 5'. If there are any forum posters in the Dallas area, this could quickly be resolved with a tape measure.

This brings up another issue ... what is the width of the top step/porch in front of the door?

Robert, the fact that no one else on the steps for the motorcade had noticed Oswald while JFK was passing the building. Hey Sean, do you believe that, if anyone had actually seen Oswald himself in the front that they would've remained silent about such 'guilty knowledge'? I don't believe a single soul noticed Oswald taking his place back in the shadows just as the motorcade was arriving--their attention was riveted elsewhere. I believe Oswald was noticed, and remembered, by at least two people just after the shooting: Roy Truly and Marrion Baker. And that they told DPD and FBI about this within minutes (Truly) and hours (Baker) of the shooting. I also believe Buell Wesley Frazier, and possible Joe Molina, noticed Oswald there but were put through intense pressure by the authorities (i.e. on pain of being charged with the capital offence of co-conspiracy in the murder of the President) to keep quiet about this. I believe Buell Wesley Frazier knows that Lee didn't shoot President Kennedy. Sean, in the Darnell crop posted earlier in this thread, Frazier has his head turned towards the right. PM/Oswald is well within his field of vision.

Hey Bill, I don't know if there is sufficient detail (information) within this low quality frame to determine who the guy is. However, is it possible that Oswald bought the coke prior to going outside? That he was doing that during the shooting? What if he was (inside) buying a coke at about the time of the last shot, then strolled out front to see what the commotion was as he drank it? By the time he got there it was pretty much over and Baker was running for the front stairs. It was a warm day, Oswald was drinking his coke quickly and headed back inside to dispose of the bottle in the lunch room once he had finished it? Does anyone know if there was a "bottle redemption" value back then? If so, was there a place for the empty bottles? I know there weren't any "recycle" bins back then, but perhaps there was a place for bottles that had a redemption value? Hi Greg, You are correct. Coke bottles were "deposit" bottles back in 1963 (and long after). One of the lunchroom photos shows a wooden crate on the floor near the Coke machine just about full of empties. And regarding Chris's question about 2 cokes, in an earlier post, I mentioned that many Coke machines were still dispensing the 6.5 ounce bottles in 1963. Two of those gives you about the same amount of product as one twelve ounce can does today.

Wonder why CBS is not also reporting the 50th anniversary of the trip to the Cuban and Russian embassies in Mexico City. They could show the photo of Oswald leaving the embassy, too.

Interesting stuff from James Richards. I would be interested in his take on TUM and DCM. Regarding Danny Arce, I have never seen anyone in any Dealey Plaza photos that shows him, outside of the one presented by James Richards. And that one is not in the location that Arce claimed he was. For some cheap Warren Commission comedy, read the section where Arce is engaged by Mr. Ball. Arce had stated that he left the sidewalk to go on the grass to get a better view. Ball questions Arce no less than 16 times, trying to ascertain where Arce was standing when the motorcade went by. Arce adeptly fumbles his responses. We are left with a vague notion that Arce was somewhere in a grassy area across the Elm St Extension that may or may not have been in front of the TSBD, and may or may not have been West of the west end of the TSBD. One additional tidbit is that Arce also claimed in his Nov 22, 1963 statement that he was unable to see the President's car when the shots rang out....

Hey Bill, just a theory but considering witness testimony of there being two men seen in the windows, and the reports of the "fake" SS agents in and around the building and the two unidentified "plain clothes" coming down the stairs. I'm thinking it was a classic sniper team. Shooter and Spotter. The Shooter hides the weapon and the spotter rearranges the boxes to resemble a fighting position and frame "the patsy". This gives them time to complete both actions and then head down the stairs. They split up, one goes out the back and one goes out the front. If they encounter anyone they can show their ID and blend in and walk away. Would you be suspicious if a you encountered a stranger and they flashed a badge and asked for a phone? Brilliant. There is some detailed information about Secret Service sightings in Dealey Plaza and other locations in Dallas on 11/22/63 in a post by Steve Thomas. Secret Service: On the Knoll and Beyond http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12084

Those are interesting observations and good questions, Chris. There were NO SS Agents assigned to Dealey Plaza. Forrest Sorrells was the first true SS Agent to enter the TSBD at 12:55. Much too late to account for the SS Agent sightings in the Parking area by the tracks, inside the TSBD, in front of the TSBD or on the back (North) loading dock.

Larry, you are probably right. This may be another case where the simplest explanation is the best. I am convinced that electrical power to the elevators was cut for a brief period, but the phones are a separate issue. While the motive to cut off the elevator power is transparent, the motive to turn the phone system off is not nearly as clear. It makes sense that occupants of the building would hang up the phone to go out and see the motorcade. Still, I have this one issue concerning incoming calls. Callers from other areas of the city or state would have no idea where the motorcade was, or if there even was a motorcade. But it could simply be a matter of no incoming calls happening during the time period in question. And we do know from Geneva Hine's testimony that a girl in the Southwestern Publishing Co. office was talking on the phone very shortly after shots were fired.

Richard, Robert Groden's new book will be titled Absolute Proof. It will be replete with photos - some I think heretofore unseen. At last year's COPA conference, he said he hoped to have it released before the 50th; however, as I understand it, the release date has been pushed back several times over the last few years. I think he will be presenting at next week's Wecht conference. Perhaps he will share updated information about a publication date at that time. Thanks, Michael.

Hi Larry, Good point. Geneva Hine's testimony sheds some light on your discussion: Mr. BALL. Was there a switchboard? Miss HINE. No, sir; we have a telephone with three incoming lines, then we have the warehouse line and we have an intercom system. Mr. BALL. You don't have a switchboard? Miss HINE. Not now; we did in the other building. But her testimony covered only the TSBD business. I believe you are correct about each company in the building having their own dedicated lines, with none of them requiring the use of a switchboard. There would, however be some point of presence in the building, possibly in the basement, where the incoming carrier lines were re-routed into the local phone lines for each company. If someone wanted to cut off all phones in the building, that would be the ideal location to do so. Geneva Hine mentioned that the lights went off on her phone lines as the motorcade approached Dealey Plaza. Can you recollect which book company experienced a similar event?

Excerpt from Sean's Post: ... On September 17th 2011 Robert Groden made the following remarks in a radio interview with Len Osanic: I actually found a woman some years ago. She was terrified. She did not want to come forward. And she finally agreed to give an interview, and I did interview her. When the shots actually went off, she was talking to Lee Oswald on the second floor. […] We always assumed that Lee had the change, that he had had the change for the machine. He didn’t. He went into the office across from the snack room with a dollar bill and asked for change. He said, “No pennies, please.” And, as the change was being counted out into his hand, the shots went off. And they looked at each other, this woman and Lee, and [asked], “What was that?” Backfires, firecrack[ers], who knew? He got the rest of the change, walked back across the hall, bought the Coke and then just a little over a minute later there was a gun in his ribs held by Officer Baker. Lee had an airtight alibi. He could not possibly have done this. She told this story to the Warren Commission. They told her to keep her mouth shut. And she did. She told very few people. Very few people. I was one of the few that she did. So I got to speak to her because I had a friend who knew a friend of hers. I had to promise her I would never reveal any of this until after she was gone. And now she is. The whole story, including her name, will be in the next book. Groden's book has not yet been published, and it is a cause of real regret that he has chosen to hold back these potentially case-breaking details for so long. Does anyone know if Robert Groden's new book will be an update to JFK The Case For Conspiracy, or will it be a new title? His website is not currently promoting a new release. November 22 is 44 days away.

Buell Wesley Frazier made brief reference to the motorcycles backfiring in an interview for the Sixth Floor Museum Oral History Project. I believe it was the 6/21/2002 interview. I made a few notes while listening to the interview. Excerpt: "... And, as I said earlier, from listening to the motorcycles that was leading the President's car that had been backfiring, at first I thought it was a backfire from a motorcycle..." [when asked when he first realized Kennedy had been shot] "... By the time of the second and third shot was fired, I realized it wasn't a motorcycle backfire, because it had a different sound to it."

Bill, In case you have not seen this, http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10755&relPageId=4 there is a section in the 1/29/64 investigation report by SA Roger Warner that mentions his interview with James Powell (Army Intelligence). Powell told Warner he entered the TSBD and observed Pierce Allman using a phone in the lobby of the building and that it was near a desk. FWIW, I have seen two photos of the lobby and neither shows a phone, at least that I can detect. Perhaps there is an area of the lobby that is not visible in either photo. I have to believe that Powell knew what the lobby was, and was not confusing it with the phone near the column in the middle of the first floor. Richard, Warner's gloss on what Powell said is in error, as is made clear from the first-person statement that Powell himself gave: So Powell was mis-quoted by Warner. Thanks for the correction Sean.

Thanks for the shot of Barnett and Smith, Robin. I know that a couple years ago, Martin Hinrichs, yourself and others had a thread going on another forum that attempted to ID individuals in various photos taken in Dealey Plaza. Can you remember if any attempt was made to ID the other news man on the steps with Don Cook?

Bill, In case you have not seen this, http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10755&relPageId=4 there is a section in the 1/29/64 investigation report by SA Roger Warner that mentions his interview with James Powell (Army Intelligence). Powell told Warner he entered the TSBD and observed Pierce Allman using a phone in the lobby of the building and that it was near a desk. FWIW, I have seen two photos of the lobby and neither shows a phone, at least that I can detect. Perhaps there is an area of the lobby that is not visible in either photo. I have to believe that Powell knew what the lobby was, and was not confusing it with the phone near the column in the middle of the first floor.