Ray Mitcham

Seconde, Vanessa

If it was a camera and it was Oswald, what happened to the camera subsequently?

IMO it's white cup of some sort,

Dear gentlemen, Robert, Richard, and Robin,

I was able to reconstruct Wiegman's scene with Prayer Man being 5'9'', and it nicely and logically fits with the solution which I have proposed for Darnell's still. It is better to take Roy Lewis than Billy Lovelady as the reference landmark in Wiegman's still as Roy Lewis almost did not move (only his head rotated) whilst Mr. Lovelady changed steps and his stance and angle of his trunk (leaning). Thus, it is difficult in the 3D space, as the doorway was, to evaluate what was the absolute height of Prayer Man by using Lovelady's body height as the reference height.

I apologise for not being able to show the solution for Prayer Man (5'9'') for Wiegman at this moment. This relates to my job duties which take up my time until late evenings and also whole weekends. While it is relatively easy to just write how things are, it is a time consuming affair to provide some supporting evidence using 3D modelling. For Wiegman's scene, I would certainly need to place Roy Lewis on the thirds step and reproduce his body posture. To model the details of his or Lovelady's clothing (especially Lovelady's clothing is important), I need to change surfaces (meshes) which cannot be done in Sketchup itself but in a plugin called Artisan. I will post new data once I believe they are complete and as perfect as possible. However, the first thing would be to complete the analysis of Darnell's still which can be done in a more illustrative way compared to my previous posts. I would then launch a more comprehensive project which would reconstruct the locations and movements of all human figures in the doorway during the shooting. Wiegman's stills are central to this effort.

As to the depth of the doorway: Prayer Man in Wiegman's still has his trunk and head in the shadow, only the the bottom of the bottle he held in his right hand was exposed to the sun. Thus, Prayer Man could only be at one and very distinct point within the depth of the doorway. Should he stood further back, the bottle bottom would not be hit by the sun. Should he be located further to the front, his trunk and particularly his left shoulder would be in the sun light. There is simply no wiggling space in Wiegman's still, as it was not in Darnell's still, to fit Prayer Man. Once you follow the landmarks (including shadows) derived from the picture in question, the correct solution pops up automatically.

Andrej, you say the sun is reflecting on the bottom of a bottle. I disagree. If the sun was shining on whatever it was, it wouldn't be the bottom of a bottle. as the sun was coming from a different direction than our view of the bottom of a bottle, if that's what it was..

I agree with Sandy. What makes you think that whatever is in PP's hand is in sunlight? Whatever it is, it isn't in direct sunlight .IMO.

It is wrong only because their descriptions don't match Oswald. However, if they both saw a different person, who was 165 lbs/175 lbs[,] then they were right.

But we know for a fact that Baker wasn't describing "a different person". He was staring right at Lee Oswald in the lunchroom. Roy Truly confirms that fact.

But, since you've decided that Mr. Truly was a rotten [L-word], that paves the way for you to pretend that Baker never stopped Oswald in the lunchroom.

Nice system, Ray. It's foolproof.

Not as foolproof as your circular arguments, David. Pity they are wrong.

Baker's first day affidavit said he saw the man on the third or fourth floor. So he saw a different person.

His second story about seeing Oswald on the second floor was concocted after they decided the fix.

So Truly was out to frame Oswald too, eh Ray?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Even the age of the assassin Brennan saw fits perfectly with Marrion Baker's incorrect estimate of Lee Oswald's age -- about 30 -- which we know is wrong, but we also know that the man Baker described as being "approximately 30 years old" WAS Lee Harvey Oswald and not somebody who could have merely been confused with Oswald.

And then there are the "weight" estimates provided by Brennan and Baker in their individual affidavits, which also (just like the "age" estimate) blend together perfectly:

Baker said -- "165 pounds".

Brennan said -- "165 to 175 pounds".

And, just like Baker's estimate for Oswald's age, the weight estimate he provided in his affidavit is wrong, but we still know that Baker was estimating the weight of the real Lee Harvey Oswald when he wrote down "165 pounds" in his 11/22/63 affidavit.

Ergo, we know that it is, indeed, possible for a person to look right at Lee Harvey Oswald on November 22, 1963, and think he weighed as much as 165 pounds. Shouldn't this fact mean just a little something to CTers when they attempt to assess whether or not Howard Brennan could have possibly seen Oswald in the Sniper's Nest on that same day?

Do CTers think that Baker and Brennan got together and swapped information so that their affidavits would merge perfectly with respect to both the "age" and "weight" estimates?" -- DVP; Aug. 2015

"Which we know is wrong"

It is wrong only because their descriptions don't match Oswald. However, if they both saw a different person, who was 165 lbs/175 lbs then they were right. Your arguments about them being "wrong" depend entirely on Oswald being the shooter. However Occam's Razor says that if they both saw a much heavier man then it wasn't Oswald.

Unfortunately, it seems your brain is wired so that you are unable to consider that they saw somebody other than Os.

Brennan first day affidavit.

"I am presently employed by the Wallace and Beard Construction Company as a Steam fitter and have been so employed for about the past 7 weeks. I am working on a pipe line in the Katy Railroad yards at the West end of Pacific Street near the railroad tracks. We had knocked off for lunch and I had dinner at the cafeteria at Record and Main Street and had come back to see the President of the United States. I was sitting on a ledge or wall near the intersection of Houston Street and Elm Street near the red light pole. I was facing in a northerly direction looking across the street from where I was sitting. I take this building across the street to be about 7 stories anyway in the east endof [sic] the building and the second row of windows from the top I saw a man in this window. I had seen him before the President's car arrived. He was just sitting up there looking down apparently waiting for the same thing I was to see the President. I did not notice anything unusual about this man. He was a white man in his early 30's, slender, nice looking, slender and would weigh about 165 to 175 pounds. He had on light colored clothing but definately [sic] not a suit. I proceeded to watch the President's car as it turned left at the corner where I was and about 50 yards from the intersection of Elm and Houston and to a point I would say the President's back was in line with the last windows I have previously described I heard what I thought was a back fire. It run [sic] in my mind that it might be someone throwing firecrackers out the window of the red brick building and I looked up at the building. I then saw this man I have described in the window and he was taking aim with a high powered rifle. I could see all of the barrel of the gun. I do not know if it had a scope on it or not. I was looking at the man in this windows at the time of the last explosion. Then this man let the gun down to his side and stepped down out of sight. He did not seem to be in any hurry. I could see this man from about his belt up. There was nothing unusual about him at all in appearance. I believe that I could identify this man if I ever saw him again.

/s/ H. L. Brennan

As I said wrong man, as Oswald weighed 131 lbs not 165/175 lbs as described.

Strange that the same wrong description was given by both Baker and Brennan.

Truly was the man who hired Oswald after a telephone conversation with Ruth Paine.

He was the one who said that Oswald was missing when he had no reason to suspect he was.

When asked why he had identified Oswald as being missing, he was unable to give a satisfactory answer.

Who would believe Truly?

Only in DVP's make believe world, would he try to say that despite both Baker and Brennan getting the description wrong, they must have seen Oswald, because Oswald was the man who did the shooting. I believe it is called a circular argument.

Compared to Baker's affidavit on 11.22. 63

"Friday November 22, 1963 I was riding motorcycle escort for the President of the United States. At approximately 12:30 pm I was on Houston Street and the President's car had made a left turn from Houston onto Elm Street. Just as I approached Elm Street and Houston I heard three shots. I realized those shots were rifle shots and I began to try to figure out where they came from. I decided the shots had come from the building on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston. This building is used by the Board of Education for book storage. I jumped off my motor and ran inside the building. As I entered the door I saw several people standing around. I asked these people where the stairs were. A man stepped forward and stated he was the building manager and that he would show me where the stairs were. I followed the man to the rear of the building and he said, "Let's take the elevator." The elevator was hung several floors up so we used the stairs instead. As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket."

​Note "As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw man walking away from me"--Not "I saw a man in the vestibule through a window." his later statement.

Note "...165 lbs, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket." Oswald wasn't anywhere near 165 lbs (how could a trained cop get a description so wrong if it was Oswald?)

​Therefore whoever Baker saw on the third or fourth floor, it certainly wasn't Oswald.

The day after, the fix was in.

Chris, a 72" cop would cast a shadow of 95.4" according the sun elevation, at the time, of 37.05.

Ray,

These are the figures I came up with in 1981 using a satellite tracking program that I wrote:

31.59 degrees altitude

Shadow Length = 6'/tan(31.59) = 9.75'

Out of curiosity, how did you calculate the solar elevation?

Tom

Hi Tom, I put the time, and place, in the following site.

i.e. 12.31 pm. 11.22.63

Ron, This is what Tom Wilson said about the guy, in "A Deeper Darker Truth" by Donald T Phillips.

"While [the tramps], being escorted to the police station, a civilian in a business suit was observed to have a wire from an electronic device connected to his eyeglasses and extending down, along the bottom of his hairline and into his shirt collar just below the right ear. This individual could have been part of the assassination team"

I assume that must have been based on a Wilson photo analysis. If he used the photo posted here, I don't see how he found any wire as described.

Apparently the system he invented (but which died with him apparently) enabled him to see detail which is not normal seen on an original photo.

If you haven't read Phillips' book, Ron, I recommend it.

Baker takes approx 6 steps from the annex edge to Truly. 6x3.5ft =21ft

Another 1.5 till we see his shadow upon the curb. 1.5 x 3.5 = 5.25ft

If Baker's shadow is approx 6ft, that's a total distance of 32.25ft

The angled path from curb to curb is 33.4ft

That puts Truly about 12.4 ft on angle, away from the TSBD curb.

The Truly X LOS(line of sight) is aligned with the west end opening of the TSBD staircase.

Thanks Tom,

The 6ft shadow length I used was from Sandy's estimation.

Shorten Baker's steps to 3ft and you have a difference of 3.75ft (26.25 - 22.5) added to Baker's shadow now equals 9.75ft.

Or, move Truly's LOS position closer to the annex corner 3.75ft.

Truly's position in relationship to the TSBD stairway is key. imo

chris

Chris, a 72" cop would cast a shadow of 95.4" according the sun elevation, at the time, of 37.05.

Sandy and Ron,

Here is the animated GIF I made a while back showing the guy people think of as Landsale (and now Taylor) wore glasses in Dealey Plaza.

Thanks. I remember that now. The old shadow-of-the-eyeglasses bit.

A third possibility (besides 20-20 vision Lansdale and bespectacled Taylor) is that the man is a demon or Satan himself. See the two horns on the back of his head.

Ron, This is what Tom Wilson said about the guy, in "A Deeper Darker Truth" by Donald T Phillips.

"While [the tramps], being escorted to the police station, a civilian in a business suit was observed to have a wire from an electronic device connected to his eyeglasses and extending down, along the bottom of his hairline and into his shirt collar just below the right ear. This individual could have been part of the assassination team"

Kath, first link doesn't work- shows "This channel does not exist".

I generally agree with DSL, but not with his belief about a non-body switch. Not so much that the body was switched but that the photos of the autopsy were of another body. Thought his "Best Evidence" was a superb demolition of the Bethesda cover up.

You have been shown to be "economical with the truth", Von Pein. In future, any dubious, misleading comment by anybody will be known as a "Von Peiny". Congratulations, you have entered the Lexicon of the Assassination story.

Sandy - FWIW, I also believe Altgen 6 has been altered. Even though it was released early and would have had to be altered quickly, I still believe it was altered. It's hard to believe that officials would release a photo that needed altering, but I still believe it's been altered.

Sandy - I really don't think it was altered. As you say above, it was shown on live TV Friday night (I think by Cronkite).

Here is the reverse negative of the photo:

Think about it - how would they even know what to cover up that early in the game? I can imagine Altgens going to some photo lab, getting his roll developed, probably hanging out elsewhere to maybe take more photos (or maybe not), calling into his boss to report in, giving the photos to the newswires, and then the photo is broadcast to the world.

And look at the above photo. With no digital technology, and with not knowing what to alter anyway, I think there was no need to alter the photo.

I agree totally with you, Michael.

Still believe you are wrong, Sandy. This is a better version of Lovelady.

Notice how Lovelady is leaning at an angle around the corner of the buttress. to follow the limo.

I'd love to see somebody replicate Lovelady's pose. I'd also love to see an explanation for the black line across Lovelady's left cheek that extends on over to Black Tie Man.

BTW, somebody has painted black that triangular area that is Black Tie Man's right shoulder, just to our right of Lovelady's neck. It's obvious if you load the photo into a photo editor and zoom way in. I've never noticed that before, so I believe it is a recent edit. Don't know why it was done.

It was my edit to show the lean of Lovely. If he isn't leaning, perhaps you could explain why the right side of his t shirt is vertical and the left side isn't

Still believe you are wrong, Sandy. This is a better version of Lovelady.

Notice how Lovelady is leaning at an angle around the corner of the buttress. to follow the limo.

Andrej,

FWIW, I also believe Altgen 6 has been altered. Even though it was released early and would have had to be altered quickly, I still believe it was altered. It's hard to believe that officials would release a photo that needed altering, but I still believe it's been altered.

I believe it's been altered because:

1. Lovelady's right shoulder is not all there. It simply doesn't look right.
3. Regarding the fellow with the tie standing behind and to Lovelady's right, it very much appears that his image has been pasted there. Parts of him appear to be covering parts of Lovelady, like Lovelady's shoulder and even part of his cheek. Lovelady's left cheek shouldn't have a darker, shadow-like area there. (Nor a bright white area, which is also what I see on the Altgen6 I have. Not sure it's on all Altgen 6s.)
5. So it looks like the guy's image was pasted there, and then someone attempted to blend it in with a pencil. I've seen similar things like this done before. It's pre-photoshop "technology."

Of course, if the image of the man was pasted there, there had to have been a reason for doing so. What I've wondered is if Prayer Man could be Oswald, and if Oswald may have been visible in Altgen 6 to the side and behind Lovelady. If so, PM would have had to have been near the center of the entrance-way at that time Altgen 6 was shot.

Anyway, I thought I'd mention this. If for no other reason than to give you encouragement on your Altgen 6 work.

Good luck!

Sandy I believe you are wrong about Lovelady's shoulder. I'm sure you meant his left shoulder rather than his right. He is leaning forward at an angle similar to the guy in this photo.

This video plays at a reduced speed making it easier to follow Baker:

CLICK this link and it should play...

Baker

If it doesn't; use Ray's link to Photobucket, and DOWNLOAD the MP4 file.

Tom

This version of Ray's video works a lot better for me. But are the frames supposed to be large at first and than pop down to a smaller size for the bulk of the video? If not, then I guess I have a codec problem on my PC.

Nothing wrong with your codec, Sandy. It was my poor attempt at trying to steady the clip[.

Brilliant gif, Chris. Shows clearly that Baker was not headed towards the TSBD entrance but off to the right.

"Officer Marrion Baker's mad dash for the.... Dal-Tex building? "

Click on File to see complete movie.

Link to File:-

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z388/jamesg27/th_Baker_zpssipotlxf.mp4

Hi Sandy. should be a link to Photobucket to a more stabilised gif. Can't post the normal address.

http://s46.photobucket.com/user/Fourbrick/media/Baker_zpsq9duo9vg.mp4.html

Thanks, Chris- I had Lovelady's movements backwards.

Ray, unbeknownst to your daddy, "Buttons" Doyle, I was playing Stancak like a python. You seem more interested in spreading malicious gossip, rather than admitting that Doyle's simple insights completely refute Murphy's misbegotten thesis.

In no way was I spreading "malicious gossip". I was giving you the opportunity to either confirm what "Buttons" Doyle" said, i.e. that you hadn't credited him with his helping you, or to deny it.

If what he said was true, you owe him an apology.